♪ count the ballots. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump says the 2016 presidential election saw millions of illegal voters casting ballots. people who were not entitled to vote did so, thereby rigging the election in favor of his rival hillary clinton. why would trump make such a claim? why would a man who won this historic election, who stands on the verge of becoming the american president, would be on the brink of his power?

jill stein wanted to challenge the count, but why would the declared winner want to do anything of the kind? it is ludicrous. over the weekend the president-elect responded on twitter to reports that jill stein was pushing for recounts in pennsylvania, washington and michigan. he called the recall effort a scam and massive vote rigging that cost him the popular vote. hillary clinton won the popular vote by 2 million votes worldwide. trump said, quote, in addition to winning the electoral college in a landslide, i won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. also, serious voter fraud in virginia, new hampshire and california. so why isn't the media report og this? serious bias, big problem. a top election official told the "new york times" that trump's claim was absurd. virginia's commissioner of

elections told bbc the claims of voter fraud are unfounded. and new hampshire said, we don't have any evidence, and there's been nothing filed in our office or the attorney general's office that there's widespread voter fraud in new hampshire. hallie jackson is here to give me the answer. hallie, you're only a reporter, you're only a human being with the intelligence to answer this question. what is he trying to do? first of all, the idea of millions? who are these people? i guess he means illegal people, undocumented. does he think millions of people walked into a voting booth, mexicans who just got here, and they voted and nobody noticed? it's crazy. >> reporter: let me answer this, chris, as a human being. the president was posed to the president-elect's transition team exactly this.

when the president-elect tweets about millions of people who voted illegally, what does that mean? as one person who is very involved in voter fraud, protection efforts, are these imaginary voters? who are these people? the transition team sent a 45-page report and said it would show backup for the question. we are back to the question where we started which is, where is the evidence? where is the beef, if you will. this is a very similar incident that came up when donald trump claimed the system was rigged. even during primaries, he made that claim, and he's relying now, it appears, on some of the same evidence, evidence largely debunked, that he used that. >> is this coming from alex jones? >> reporter: i can tell you this. at least one of the claims came from the alex jones website

that's pushing these conspiracy theories. we know that the president-elect likes to go on line and reads these news clippings, or at least when they're printed out, he reads them, so can you draw a direct link? you can say these claims appeared on places like info wars and now they're being tweeted by the president-elect to his many millions of followers. >> is it fair to assume he's talking about people in the country illegally? if you come up with two or three million additional voters, who are these additional voters? if a person walks in a voting booth and wants to vote, they get to vote if they're legal. so these must be people who are here illegally? is that a reasonable assumption? that's the same people alex jones is talking about, people from along the border, probably, the way they look at it. >> reporter: right, undocumented immigrants who are in the united states illegally, chris, and that is based on, again, some of the documentation the transition team has provided in order to, in their view, back up some of these claims being made by the

president-elect, specifically citing post feeds that have since been debunked that put forward some claims that this is possible. >> thank you so much, hallie jackson. great reporting as a human being can only do well. thanks so much. just kidding. by the way, happy thanksgiving and merry christmas if i don't see you again, but i will. politico said trump's claims are baseless assertions of voter fraud called stunning, so why is he doing it? you're laughing, so you go first. the reason i raised this is i thought he had a pretty good edge against jill stein. i wasn't impressed with jill stein's presidential campaign. i don't think she got into the argument or even into the conversation. now she's in the conversation with an attempt to get a recount. she'll get one in wisconsin, perhaps other states. but nobody really expects, especially the clinton people, for that to have any impact on

the ultimate result. so why is trump joining the effort to debunk the election results? it doesn't make any sense. >> it is awfully bizarre, but i think there is a method to the madness. look, this idea that we rigged this election -- we did a really poor job, by the way, of rigging this election if we rigged this election, because he was the winner of it. but it does fall under the continuum of trump, right, these sort of bin facts when they don't go along with the narrative of him. we've seen this his whole entire campaign. we are, chris, moving into a post-true vote. >> but why is he saying things that don't make sense? >> because he's the strong man. the fact he didn't win the popular vote, he's a big, strong man and he has a mandate. he doesn't have a mandate here. >> you're making an argument now. but he has the legal right to be president. >> well, according to -- he won the election, although according

to him he's calling into question fraud. my point is, chris, i'm not surprised by this, because every time something is not going his way, he bends the facts or he rejects the facts. ask he's n and he's now the president, which is kind of scary. >> he's saying there are 300,000 illegal immigrants. people around the world and that hurts our country. >> i would first say i don't think it was a good idea for him to say this. i do think two things. one is i do think president-elect trump has been conducting himself very well. but when you get off a campaign, sometimes you instantly snap back to it, but i think during the campaign, trump's reaction was always fight back, fight back. and i think this was an example where he quickly tweeted something out that has now exploded to some degree, and if you notice, there's not a lot of other people in trumpland

talking about this today. so i don't think this was a planned effort, and i think it will probably die out. >> let's put this all together. let's talk about this. we know there is going to be a recount in wisconsin. hillary clinton's people have joined this sort of amicus brief. they don't think it will get anywhere. new hampshire, 70,000 votes, michigan -- but nobody believes the recount process itself would normally make that kind of correction, that it wouldn't be different than the first count, enough to turn around a 75,000 vote in pennsylvania, for example. >> if you look at the number under 30s who made a third-party vote and, in fact, voted for hillary clinton, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, so i have a problem with the third party people altogether. long term, we can't have the president of our country calling into question our process. it doesn't look good for our

country and it certainly doesn't look good for us outside. that's not whether you're democrat or republican, that's just the offset itself. green party candidate jill stein as racised millions of dollars from donors. she's also going to pay for it in wisconsin and pennsylvania. her campaign would participate in the recount. because we had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology, we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves. but now that a recount has been initiated in wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure a process that is fair to all sides. >> if you look at the numbers, nobody in the world says there is a problem that's going to change the election. i understand why jill stein is doing it. she's raising a heck of a lot of money, ever $6 million so far.

>> she still has to spend it on the recount. >> in wisconsin they said she can also spend it on building of the green party. she can use it as a platform. for the clinton people to add to this i think is a great insult to american people, because there's no value in it. it's just going to divide america more. >> but you can't call the process itself a fraud, and i agree with you that i have issues with doing a recount because i don't think it's going to change anything. but there are rules here and she is within the rules and laws here, so i wouldn't call what she's doing fraud. i don't think it's necessarily helpful. i think it would have been more helpful if she dropped out. >> there is a weird conundrum for trump. he seems to have a hard time accepting his victory. who was it that ran for mayor of new york and he was asked what will you do if you win, and he said i'll demand a recount. coming up, a field of determined candidates led my rudy giuliani are busy casting themselves as donald trump's

secretary of state. all the intrigue from within trump tower, up next. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. speaking of tech wonders, with the geico app you can get roadside assistance, digital id cards... or even file a claim. do that.. yeah, yeah that should work. it's not happening... just try again. uh, i think i found your problem. thanks. hmm... the award-winning geico app. download it today. why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis

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>> a rival's concept if you were to go to the governor romney concept. >> giuliani himself is running his own public campaign for the job telling the wall street journal, i've probably traveled in the last 13 years as much as hillary did when she was secretary of state. i've been to europe six times, france five times, you can't say i don't know the world. remember this? >> you know, you're really beautiful. a woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. >> oh, thank you. maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent. >> mm, i like that. >> this may be the best of all. oh, you dirty boy, you. oh! oh!

donald, i thought you were a gentleman. hmm! >> you can't say i didn't try. >> what do you make of that? trump adviser kellyanne conway is running a campaign against mitt romney. >> why are you campaigning against mitt romney as secretary of state? >> i'm not campaigning against anyone, i'm just a concerned citizen. i'm not campaigning against mitt romney. i felt compelled to mention it because it's breathtaking. the number of people who feel betrayed to think that governor romney would get the most prominent cabinet post after he went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump. there was the never trump movement and then there was mitt romney. governor romney in the last four years, has he been around the globe doing something on behalf of the united states of which we're unaware? did he go and intervene in syria where they're having a massive humanitarian crisis, meaning offer to help? has he been helpful to mr.

netanyahu? i'm all for part of unity, but i'm not sure we have to pay for that with the secretary of state position. but again, let me repeat. what donald trump decides, kellyanne conway and everyone else will respect. governor romney ran for the same office four years ago and lost spectacular spectacularly. it's donald trump who won 364 electoral votes. donald trump won wisconsin for the first time since 1984, won pennsylvania, won florida, won iowa. >> both romney and corker will meet with trump tomorrow night. romney, in fact, is having dinner with trump. the vp elect promises some very important announcements tomorrow. steve tocortez, republican strategist. steve, let me ask you more on romney. kellyanne conway makes it clear

that she is making attacks for those who don't want him. mike huckabee, the former governor of arkansas. what is it that really bugs people about romney? >> chris, i'll tell you, those of us who are in politics, no matter where you fall in partisan terms, we love palace intrigue, don't we? it's fascinating. i would say regarding palaces, the european royal families intermarried a heck of a lot. i'm not sure it was about love, it was often for political convenience. that might be part of what's going on here with this dance for mitt romney. but i will tell you and i will echo to some extent what kellyanne conway said. when i look at my social media world and i talk to people, there is almost a visceral revolt against romney among trump supporters. i will say personally he made my life difficult who came on air to promote the canned daedidacy donald trump, he was a thorn

this our side. i would say to the comrades in our movement, trust in our guy, donald trump, and if he believes he needs him by his side, and he believes america needs him, we must trust in his judgment and the team rivals will work that he is but one voice among many. >> i'm amazed at your openness to this. let me ask you, do you think romney voted for trump? >> i don't know who he voted for, but he said he wasn't going to support trump. >> it's reasonable to think he didn't vote for him. >> that's reasonable. >> what do you think about a guy working for someone he didn't even vote for? >> i think that speaks well for donald trump. he's willing to put aside personal issues to bring in someone who is a very bright and public servant, someone he thinks could help the administration, and that speaks well for our nation. >> the concern is that he will

not be donald trump's secretary of state. he won't do what trump wants, he'll do what he wants. >> that's ridiculous. i think anyone who accepts it will follow his lead. >> oyou've never heard of cabint members being disrespectful when a president supports them? i have. >> donald trump is the boss. that's what his whole career is about. >> let me ask you about this other name, both you guys. i hadn't thought about it, but i think petraeus is fascinating. for example, he's not quite rudy but he has a rudy aspect to him. there's a toughness to him. a little more streetwise than perhaps romney. he's very popular on the right, on the hawkish right, without necessarily being a hawk himself. he's no bolton. i wonder if he isn't the sweet spot. that's just me looking from the outside in, steve.

what do you think? >> chris, i couldn't agree more. the president-elect hasn't asked me, but if he did, i would say general petraeus. i don't think we have to worry anymore about the scandals that upset him regionregionally. we look at his record, i think they combine the toughness of a soldier with the rigor of a prints t princeton phd, which he happens to hold. this is "hardball," a place for politics. it's easy to love your laxative...

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trump watch, monday, november 28, 2016. we're all watching television now. we're all caught up in this special episode of "the apprentice." five hopefuls sit there all in a row. he's at his desk waving applications. all that matters, it seems, is

the performance, nothing more. only donald trump's expectation of what each of these five men might do for him the next four years. rudy giuliani is the most game, of course. after all, he was there in the foxhole when trump was taking fire from every direction. he proved himself in battle. can that be said for any other contestant? mitt romney acts as though being who he is allows him the most justified position. is there an air of superiority that he used against president obama justify him getting the superiorpost? there are other candidates. general david petraeus would be taken seriously and show that donald trump has the guts to choose someone known to make a mistake. a second chance after he slapped that malingering soldier. bob corker would start with a burst of trust because his fellow workers would show him

trust. balden would be a disaster. we hope the one you're rooting for or certainly the one you're rooting against get their past performance and that it's not just someone donald trump would like the cut of his jib. this is "hardball," cnn. diabetes can be a daily struggle,

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16 years ago, this man set a record. he ran for a seat in the united states senate 16 years ago and he lost that race, which is why you probably don't recognize