p and a private dead case ceremony for a memorial for those 19 firefighters who lost their lives battling a 2013 fire in arizona. that will be held their lives in 2014 in arizona will be held today. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ ♪ >> good morning. it's tuesday, november 29th. >> oh, lordy. >> just a lot going on. we us on set we have mike barnicle. >> hey, are you all paying attention? >> they are still on vacation. >> a legendary columnist. >> thank you, jeff.

>> contributor from "time" magazines, elyse jordan. >> we will work on you. >> i don't get that kind of a shout-out, but hopefully in time. >> in washington, political analysts -- what do we have going on here? >> casual mike. >> it's mr. rogers in the future. michael steele. >> i love it when he has slick ties. >> i want him to read me a story about fire right now. >> there you go. >> oh, my gosh. we have a lot going on and so much to get to. you are looking through the papers. >> yeah. >> anything good? >> looks like kellyanne conway gets somebody from "the new york times" to dictate a story for her, and -- >> you mean, read it into siri. >> yeah, and she worked over

time all day yesterday to get that cleaned up and finally got a statement from him late last night. >> there's a picture of her at "the posts" at the beach. >> there was a time saying she was not in the inner circle anyway. >> she just dictated into siri and the "new york times" printed it. the politico story? >> it was just saying she did not want to be press secretary, and that she was looking to run an outside group so she could stay in new york, and she is no longer in the inner circle. >> no, she's not. in fact you can ask people that have been interviewed for the top jobs and she will tell you she is the person that is never inside the room when it happens, or where it happens. so she's probably going to go outside of there, and she did, and everybody inside the

organization said that she went off on her own, but they obviously -- i guess, mike, you don't -- i guess the reason why they dictated the story and ran it in t"the times," and trump gave a statement, and you don't want it to appear there's in fighting. >> she was valuable to the campaign. >> invaluable. i just assume that donald trump sort of enjoys this back and forth because it keeps his name and it keeps all of the attention devoted to him, and what's he going to do and see today. >> i don't think kellyanne conway's attention -- >> karl rove was right it makes

him look weak for people to go out and box him up if he is interested in romney, and i think that if he is doing this, if he said kellyanne, let's take romney out. >> from top to bottom, every source that knows trump that knows how trump thinks says that she surprised him, and it was a shock to him. and also he was irritated, is a polite way to put it, for her to say he betrayed his followers. she got out ahead of her skis, and she is frustrated because she's not in the inner circle,

and she was offered the position of the communications director but she didn't want that. if you are trump, you want to make everybody happy. when i was in congress, you gave somebody a raise, and people would say duck, he's going to fire you. that really does happen. and donald trump is doing what any leader would do, which is clean it up, because he has his two most important interviews for secretary of state. he's got romney, and he's got corker. >> that's right. >> and if i can just talk for a second on this, because i don't talk a lot, and -- >> but we are wasting time

because it's not worth it. >> and people say this is just like the "apprentice," he's bringing people in -- well, that's what you want him to do. you want him to have a fairviewing and figure out who is best. >> when you come up, and three really good serious people, general petraeus, mitt romney and bob corker, and those are three guys that would be good secretary of states. just the kellyanne thing, she was obviously one of the most important three or four people in the entire campaign, so he obviously has valued her throughout this, and every time she came on the show we were impressed by her but when she

went out publicly against romney on sunday did not look like something that would be sanctioned by trump. >> it does the go back to his unwavering sense of loyalty. no matter what happens, no matter what she did or said -- >> no. >> but, people -- i think staffers -- >> if a staffer gets out ahead of you, that's in your head and it's always in your head, and i love the staffer and the staffer is great, and when the staffer can work for me all the staffer wants, but they get the staffer out. too much time. this is what we do know. bob corker is meeting with donald trump today and is believed to be in the mix for secretary of state. yesterday trump tweeted, just met with general petraeus, and

was very impressed. >> the meeting went very well. was with him for an hour and he walked us around the world and showed us a grasp of the challenges out there and some of the opportunities as well, and a very good conversation and we will see where it goes from here. >> petraeus resigned from the cia post amid scandal, and in 2015 he was given probation for passing along classified information. >> general petraeus go into see donald trump, obviously that provides comfort to a lot of people in the washington establishment that thought he was going to select other people that were just loyalists before, and willie said the longer this process goes on the stronger the candidates become. >> yeah, there's truth to that and i think you are right about how a lot of folks in washington are viewing the way this particular process of secretary of state is playing out. they are comfortable with

petraeus despite the issue with the documents and the trial and all of that, and he's still in high regard on both sides of the aisle on capitol hill, and so his selection would send a strong signal, not just around washington but globally. what is happening with kellyanne and mitt romney, there's concern because she reflected back with romney taking such a role, and obviously being put to the side a little bit and reflecting back that concern that is out there, and giving donald trump a warning signal. >> a warning to what, though? they are going to stay with him -- that's a funny thing. what are they going to do? i'm not going to support donald trump because he picked romney -- there's not a single person out there. >> but do you want the noise?

do you really want the noise? >> donald trump doesn't mind the noise. oh, mike huckabee, he doesn't want me to pick romney, i'm going to hide under -- no. he doesn't care. >> donald trump doesn't give a damn, we understand that, but everybody else around him does, and it's not as easily dismissed as some would like to dismiss it, and there are other people other than kellyanne conway who are vocal about it internally. >> i am not sure where all this is coming from, but there's a freak out on the right. and trump keeps eye on romney for state department despite scorn from loyalist. the guy is playing straight from

the team of rivals here, and we'll see what happens. >> yeah. >> he has two choices probably. he can go with mitt romney and go big and take a chance, or he can go with bob corker and play it safe, and who is going to be upset about corker? i don't see trump cowering in the corner thinking somebody might be mad if i go big. >> i am not saying that. operationally and functionally, do you want that noise? >> michael, the only noise internally based on all of my sources is kellyanne. bannon doesn't like it but he will not go out and say anything about it. people around donald trump understand. who is the last person in the

room with trump? >> trump. the one thing we do know, and it's the only thing we do know, honestly, everybody in the media, is he likes to leave everybody guessing, and all the surmising, it's the "apprentice," and all of this, and you can't put it to a formula, and add old traditions to trump -- >> but what he does care about is winning, and he's going to pick the secretary of state that he thinks will help him win. >> yes, but -- >> and sometimes i would suggest, mike barnicle, that obama loyalist may have been a little miffed that he picked hillary clinton. this happens every four years and the people on the right are --

>> rigging the system from the get go. >> whatever. this happens every four years. reagan went to the people that tried to destroy him in three campaigns in a row, and his best staff member, skwraeupljames ba and he tried to destroy him. >> and he became the one of the best staff he had. but in 2008, when obama selected hillary clinton, there was a consternation among his supporters that he was going to choose hillary clinton for secretary of state, and the odds were it was going to be john kerry coming out of that election as secretary of state. >> yeah, and we heard these three names in the last couple of days that have impressed a lot of people, and why is rudy guiliani still in the conversation? >> because donald trump is a loyalist. and he doesn't want to just

brush him to the side, but he's -- you know, they are looking at other positions now for guiliani. still in the mix, and who knows, maybe it ends up that way but it doesn't look that way right now. >> again, to finish the point about leaving people guessing, and every move they are making right now and what i was trying to say, they don't care about a big reaction. the trumps are used to a big life. and everybody talking about melania waiting to leave, and oh, my god, who in history can do that? they are used to handling a big existence and they are trying to figure it out themselves. the leader of japan, everybody second guessing whether the business interests are crisscrossing, and i spoke to the members of the family, they don't care what people think and they are trying to figure it out. the media needs to stop getting ahead of their skis on all of

this and we are dealing with something we never have seen before, and we have to report on it until we can figure it out, and there's no big story in terms of the kellyanne thing and no big story on anything else until we know what it is. >> you worked for condi rice, and what do you think about a bob corker or mitt romney? >> i think they could both be steady level choices, and i tend to lean towards mitt romney because he has been a manager and i think that will be critical going forward. and, you know, it's interesting to remember that with nixon, he chose henry kissinger for national security, and kissinger waited a week and he asked nixon if he could go and talk to his

colleagues at harvard and make sure they were okay with it, because nixon was so scorned with the establishment. >> one of the interesting things you just pointed out is the state department bureaucracy. you need a strong secretary of state, somebody who can manage that bureaucracy, and a strong under secretary of state, because the word in the state department more than any other department in washington is the heads, the political appointees, the bureaucracy refers to them as the christmas help, they are just there for a while. >> it's interesting you say that, because i have had somebody from the state department saying they are lined up for the kill. the state department especially

they are lined up and will fight him at every turn, and that lends to what you said, you better have somebody that knows how to run big organizations that sees somebody that does that and can break them in half bureaucratly. we are learning more about the man that carried out an attack at the ohio state university. he was a somali born student. he drove a car into a crowd and began attacking people with a knife. >> 911. what is your imagine? >> i am outside of block hall and there's a guy that crashed his car into a bunch of people and ran out with a knife. >> we barricaded ourselves in our rooms like we were taught and turned off our lights and hunkered down.

>> shortly before the attack, he left behind a post on what appears to be his facebook page, saying attacks on muslims around the world led to a boiling point, and he referenced slain cleric al walky. the campus on lock-down for 90 minutes, and an officer was on the scene within a minute and killed the assailant. that officer has been identified and he joined the university of police force in january of 2015. officials cautioned they have not determined a motive for the ambush although terrorism has not been ruled out. >> willie, it's probably a good guess that maybe that's not the first thing they would like to line off with a crayon. >> yeah, ignore his facebook

post. >> and all are expected to survive. breaking overnight, wildfires have been filling the southeastern united states with smoke for days and last night whipping winds sent fires into towns in the east tennessee mountains. according to officials, a 16-story hotel and a nearby apartment building caught fire, and 30 structures caught fire, and officials told people to stay off their mobile phones unless it was an emergency, and a nearby convention center is filling up, and dollywood had to be evacuated as fires approach. the mountains are lit up askand covered in fire. >> i was there last week and was there interviewing dolly pardon,

and there was already smoke in the air, and to see dollywood evacuated and the entire town of pigeon forge and gatlinburg, and they are getting rain overnight and not enough, probably. huge winds blowing through there, and this is an extreme situation. >> and let's go to bill karins. >> these fires have been out there for a long time but have been sitting and smoldering and then yesterday the winds cranked up to 20 and 30 miles per hour, and those winds blew it and it exploded. the one video, the park vista hotel is on the mountain itself and people were literally -- this is the lobby of the hotel, and look out the windows. that's the glow of the fire moving down the mountain. at one point they were debating if they should try to jump in the swimming pool or not to survive the fire, and thankfully the fire avoided the hotel. we have one 16-story hotel that

has burned and a wedding chapel that turned to the ground, and numerous other cabins and the shat toe village was burned. the worst is over with, but when we see the daylight, there's going to be a lot of structures that were burned. there's a couple videos out there, and people going down to the mountain in the middle of the flames and their vehicles are starting to burn and get hot, and incredible stories. >> willie? >> bill karins, thank you so much. breaking overnight, a chartered plane carrying players from a brazilian soccer team crashed. it was carrying 72 passengers and nine crew was traveling to bolivia when it crashed in a mountainous area. there are five survivors of the crash. these are still pictures we are

looking at from the crash site. earlier this morning a fire official said a flight attendant arrived at the hospital in stable condition. we know there was stormy weather in the area, and according to the airport electrical problems were reported around 10:00 eastern, and the soccer team posted this video of players at the airport in brazile, and they were headed to a two-day regional soccer final, and that has been suspended. we'll talk about a bizarre scandal and how it comes after president obama warned donald trump to watch north korea. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. i have just looked at this politico story you are talking about, and it plays an outside

game. and kellyanne conway -- the strained relationship with donald trump and senior advisers, and according to more than half a dozen of sources, conway slowly receded from the president's inner most circle, and so that's, yeah, that's what everybody inside the campaign that actually knows says. >> i did think that it was perhaps a problem for her when steve bannon and reince priebus got their appointments in that first big press release. >> right. >> because she was campaign manager and she should have been up there, too, and after so much talk about how great donald trump was with woman and appointing women to high spots, she did seem to be overlooked.

>> and willie, when we say her approval rating has plummeted, what would you guess her approval rating is? >> under 50. >> keep going. >> if you guessed 4%, you would be accurate according to the "new york times." >> she says she will let the south korea society to decide when she will step down. park has faced massed protests and is the first sitting president to be a suspect. >> it will be worrying people in

washington. you talk about protests. there have been hundreds of thousands koreans on the streets, and now it looks like president park is prepared to resign over the scandal that is about whether a friend of hers extorted large amounts of money, and the obama administration warned the trump transition team that north korea is the biggest national security priority in the coming trump administration. i heard you guys talking about how we can view that trump transition team. to see it another way, let's talk about the fears that folks around the world have about a trump administration, and if you take that asia situation, you have questions over relations between china and the u.s. under a trump presidency, and you have

what is between the leader of the philippines and president obama, and you have russia meeting to japan to meet with the prime minister and that is not about russia pivoting towards asia, but it's about russia positioning itself for washington, and you are worrying about what trump is going to mean and how he is going to handle all of these issues. >> the president-elect is the final process of figuring out who his secretary of state is going to be, and that list of items that you just mentioned suggests this really is, as usual, the most important selection he is going to make, and it's going to be a name that will calm the waters. >> yeah, you are exactly right. we were a long way from the obama clinton pivot to asia,

aren't we? there may be things he can be fix. we know about the unhappy exchanges between president obama and the philippine leader, so there are things that can be different. i guess when you look at what president-elect trump has said, what he is liking to do as he goes out in the world is to look for things he can bring back to his electorate and people and say look what i got for you. in relation to china, the issue with that is what other instability will that cause, what fires may that cause given the fact that there are already so many tricky situations, and back to the north korea question, the fifth nuclear test a few months ago was the largest so far, and if there's an argument between the u.s. and china china may not be very helpful on north korea. >> thank you. it's interesting,

president-elect trump put together his cia appointment and he has the two pivot points of this story, the korea store and the department of fence and department of state still open, and they are all entintertwined. i would assume that when he receives his full security briefing when he will be told president trump at some time, you will have a north korean regime with the capability of reaching seattle with a nuclear head missile. >> again, for those that a lot of news suggests that barack obama said, all right, obamacare, i get it and i understand, and you are worried about this and you are worried about that, and you have to be worried about north korea,

because they are developing their ability to develop nuclear devices. >> you will need a strong secretary of state as well as your intelligence team. >> by all accounts, he has a strong pick at the cia, and general mattis will be a strong pick, and you have a strong pick at state and you are in pretty good shape, right? >> i would hope so. elizabeth warren reminds republicans even though they control both candidates, democrats are not going to whimper, whine, or grovel. "morning joe" is back in a moment. boost

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republicans are taking over congress and they are taking over the white house, but republicans do not have majority support in this country. the majority of voters supported democratic senate candidates over republican ones, and the

majority supported a democratic presidential candidate over a republican one. the american people didn't give democrats majority support so we can come back to washington and play dead. they didn't send us here to whimper, whine, or grovel. >> yeah. >> mike? >> every day she's clearly a candidate for running for president, and good for her. the interesting thing will see if there's a chuck schumer party in the senate and an elizabeth warren party in the senate. >> keith ellenson, and elizabeth warren stepping out and looking like she will be the de facto head of the democratic party. >> do you lead on anger, though?

i love her, and i am getting tired of this act. >> she is definitely giving voice to the people in the party and the country who think donald trump is a disaster -- >> there's a huge part of the country that doesn't think so and she might want to be a little inclusive because she is sounding like the people she is accusing of as being exexclusive. there's an anger there that is shreul and a step above what it needed to be and almost unhinged. at some point we have to look at what happened and look at the people we lost along the way, and those are the people elizabeth warren has been fighting for for decades and those are the people that have been left out because of a rigged system and those were her people and she is leaving them out of the conversation, and it doesn't make sense to me. >> this is a problem with what i have been saying about the

media, mike. the media is doing nobody any favors by pointing trump's followers as pumpkins who they have to examine under -- i have seen people that have got the story wrong from the beginning saying i will go out to the country, and they will drive, like, an hour and a half out to pennsylvania, and then drive back to midtown manhattan. mika's point is a great one, that the very people that elizabeth warren has been fighting for her entire life are the very people that elected donald trump that feel a disconnect from this democratic party. >> you know, to the initial point that you referenced there, and it saddens me to say this, but the media took a bigger hit in this year's election process, and over the past two years than any of one of the political parties. >> and they deserved it. they have been wronged from the beginning.

>> this is the people on a facebook news, and i regret saying that, but you can't ignore the facts. >> willie, how silly does the media look after the election talking about all these stories about fake news on facebook, which drive me crazy -- >> and doing a cross-country tour on how they got it wrong. >> despite the fact for most of america the mainstream media has been reporting fake news over the past year and a half, because they have read every single day, donald trump can't win, and -- the best and the brightest in the media profession, donald trump can't win, he has a 1% chance, and -- >> there's no way. >> donald trump can't win, he can't get above 20%, and donald trump can't win because of this, and donald trump can't win because of that. that's the message they have read every day and seen on tv every day from the mainstream media and to them, going up, following up on mike's point, that was fake news because it

was fake news. they were wrong from the beginning. and their assumptions polluted their reporting. >> i would say the same thing for the media and for democrats on the left, which is there has not been a lot of learning in the last month about what happened exactly, and it's looking to blame for other places why donald trump was elected, and saying did we cover this wrong or did we talk to the wrong people or have the wrong message? two separate groups, but obviously guilty of the same thing which is not looking inward after the election and looking outward for other reasons of why it fell apart. >> and somehow losing the anate ability to do a critical thing when you are gathering news or looking for votes, listen, listen to the people you are trying to represent if you are a politician, and listen to the people you are trying to record for what their feelings are for a news story.

>> try to describe it all, and by putting this lost just on donald trump voters are racist, it really misses the big picture that people were dissatisfied with what hillary clinton was proposing to actually change the lives of americans that are struggling right now, and something consistently that i heard, doing 48 hours of focus groups in seven battleground states in this election, people on both sides of the aisle did not perceive donald trump supporters racist because of their vote, it was much bigger than that. >> skpand you look at elizabeth warren, it's not showing listening or learning, that there was something to be learned, and by the way, the beginning of a new presidency, isn't the first thing that should happen out of the box we look forward to working with republicans, and we hope to move forward together and find things

we can agree on. isn't that the example that democrats have accused republicans of not holding up to, for eight years being vitriolic against republicans are being so difficult for trying to bring obama down from day one, and this reminds me of eight years ago except now it's the democrats doing. >> i want to point of what has been lost and everybody ringing their hands saying we are going to normalize trump and trump voters, if we analyze the news, and that's what we are supposed to do. this is the type of opt ed that needs to be written, instead of people bashing their heads against the wall, he actually explains how republican economics have not worked for the past 30 years for the people that voted for trump, and he

goes through focus group ideas for a conservative populism, and he says will he go that way or will he, instead, just regurgitate the type of economic policy that marco rubio and ted cruz and republicans for 30 years have been pushing? this is a great column because it makes you think. it actually is attached to reality, instead of saying we are going to get donald trump impeached because of what he did in mumbai in 2001 and connect it to what happened two weekends ago, and this is going to impact people's lives, and it's critical, and it's not a puff piece. this is the sort of questions that need to be raised here, instead of the screeching and screaming that does nobody any good. they missed the story. yeah, michael, they missed the story. now get it. >> yeah, and i think that you

put your finger on something there, because it's very important for donald trump, despite everything else, and we can talk about appointments and how that is going, but i long contended that donald trump is looking at the opportunity as a pragmatic populists, and he knows he can reshape a number of landscapes at the same time, foreign policy and economic policy and some of the cultural questions we had to deal with over the last few years, and donald trump is in a unique space, and those types of pieces that explore that route and talk about those opportunities puts the media much more in a position of not trying to create news, but analyzing the opportunities and the situation, and pointing out which way this could go. we will see if we have more of that, but trump is on to that point already, and is less interested in the drama of who the secretary of state is going to be, and interested in moving

the country and the party in a new direction. >> the question is, what role do people play in the media? there's a place for what david corn does, and joan walsh does, and that's very important, and that's to be aggressive and pushing forward and questioning every single thing that donald trump does, just like it happens on the right, but for "the times," "the posts," the mainstream media they need to step back and press reset, and take a collective breath and become the great institutions they once were. ♪

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♪ ♪ >> president-elect donald trump has chosen tom price of georgia to be the next secretary of health and human services, and he was an orthopedic surgeon elected to his seventh term, and he has worked on reducing the deficit and was the person for

crafting legislation to replace the affordable care act. democrats have said it amounts to privatizing the program. trump has promised no cuts for those already paying into medicare, and joining us from washington, senior writer at politico and co-author of "the playbook." what does this pick look like? >> it's incredibly savvy for donald trump, and it will buy him good will, and tom price is a -- as we say in playbook this morning, a favorite on tea partiers, and he's a physician so that will make a lot of house

republicans happy because he has real-world experience, and it will give them buy-in into the most contention part of the administration. >> how fascinating, what you just said about him. you are exactly right. let's look at the picks so far. you have a lot of never trumpers, and a lot of people in the conservative intelligence who have been shocked by picks, price, pompeo, and they are going to like price, pompeo, and mattis, and that's who bill crystal was trying to get to run for president. donald trump has gone mainstream republican and go into some of the territory of the very people trying to stop him the most. >> and pompeo is not only bright and graduated at the top of his price at harvard law, and he did not like donald trump -- i don't

know if he didn't like him but he was not on his team. but it's fascinating to see, because even more than the drain the swamp rhetoric, trump is with his picks seems to be making intelligent choices to gain allies on capitol hill, which is super important and something that barack obama didn't have or at least it weared off over time. >> one of the criticisms of republicans when they say obamacare, and they say they don't have anything to put forth in place of obamacare, and tom price has ideas and what does that look like? >> trump is going to cut deals, and i don't want to make a stupid prediction, and thank you for the politico love this morning, and tom price has crafted legislation and has been the face of the republican health care policy for many years, so there's no secret and his legislation is out there, so

if you talk to house republican leadership, and you will have mccarthy on, and so he can speak to this, i can see house republicans repealing obamacare, and saying we are going to give ourselves until 2020 to get this done, and this is going to take time. everybody needs to pump the brakes, and they are not going to pull the rug out from the entire country and -- there are huge political impacts as well. >> you can sunset it for '18 or '19. >> they are going to turn it into trump care. >> oh, my lord. >> and it's going to have the most beautiful seal on your health care policy. >> i think that's going to happen. oh, god. >> talk about the mainstreaming of donald trump's cabinet appointments on election night, and i don't think anybody in washington, d.c. would have guessed that he would have gone

as mainstream with -- and, i mean, i think most people are saying these are very, very good, very solid picks, and you are getting some of the best with pompeo and mattis, and if he goes with romney or corker, there's almost like you are sensing this collective sigh of relief in washington. >> i hope the appointment of the ahs secretary, and hopefully we get somebody that has been praised for simplicity and is going to give tax credits and encourage people to have health care in the absence of obamacare. this is a smart physician who is a known quantity on the hill and i hope trump's future appointments fall in line. >> all right. jake sherman, thank you so much. still ahead this morning, with the aleppo on the brink of falling, what will be left for

syria for bashar al assad to rule? we will talk about a dire situation about to get worse. we are back in a moment.

they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour on this tuesday, november 29th. still with us is veteran colu columni columnist, mike barnicle.

and elyse jordan. and michael steele. >> mr. rogers. >> mr. rogers. and joining the conversation, associate editor of the "washington post," eugene washington, and chris aliza from the "washington post." >> can i get to the top story? >> i love that duet that michael steele did with david bowie. >> "the little drummer boy." >> yeah, that's my favorite christmas song. not kidding. bowie and bang indoing drummer boy. >> do you have one, mike? >> can't say it on air. adam sandler. >> okay, we get you.

donald trump will meet for a second time with mitt romney, and corker is also meeting with trump today, and is believed to be in the mix for the secretary of state job, and yesterday trump met with retired general, david petraeus. trump tweeted, just met with general petraeus, was very impressed. and petraeus spoke with reporters after the meeting. >> the meeting went very well and was with him for about an hour, and he walked us around the world and showed a great grasp of the challenges that are out there, and some of the opportunities as well. so very good conversation, and we'll see where it goes from here. >> in 2012, petraeus resigned from his cia post amid scandal, and in 2015 he was given probation for passing along classified information. and david petraeus as a possible member of the cabinet. chris aliza, whether it's secretary of state or another position, petraeus is going to be in play here.

how does official washington react to that? >> warily. this is somebody that has a tremendous resume, and he is hurt by recently bias where the last time you heard about him it was not a good thing, transferring of documents to a mi mistress that was writing a memoir of him. if you had to, what does the party think, and anybody you can possibly find other than guilia guiliani. >> not only, gene robinson, is that the case in washington, d.c. but that's the case across

the world. i think, gene, we are getting there where we are looking at where moved from john bolton and rudy guiliani a couple weeks ago where we are looking at a process where we are looking at mitt romney or david petraeus or corker as finalist. >> if you look at petraeus, obviously he has foreign policy experience, and a great resume, as chris said. and, you know, it would be a rich irony, of course, for somebody that was actually, you know, convicted or pleaded guilty for handling the classified situation after all the lock her up chants of the campaigned to be named to such a high post in the administration. with mitt romney, the question i still have, it comes down to two words, muslim ban. donald trump modified, or

president-elect trump modified it could be extreme vetting -- >> that's not a muslim ban. it's moved beyond that. >> it's a big deal for mitt romney, and mitt romney, i am not sure that mitt romney can convince himself that calling a muslim ban by another name is anything other than a muslim ban. >> with all due respect, it's not a phmuslim ban, and if you talk about extreme vetting from syria, that sounds ration other to 98% of the people that voted for donald trump, and a lot of people that didn't, especially after yesterday's news. >> again, if you believe that's what it is, then that's what it is. mitt romney was very strong and tough on that during the campaign, and he has huge issues with that. i am just wondering. i am not saying he won't. >> just for clarification sake,

because obviously -- when he talked about muslim bans, i asked is this what germany looked like in 1933? well, he moved -- is there any question he moved beyond the muslim ban? >> i don't think there's a question that he in his mind has moved yount it, to what extent has he changed the policy. as you know, the president-elect kind of goes back and forth on a lot of these issues, and so i am not sure, maybe we will -- i am sure we will get it spelled out at some point if he intends to go through with it, but extreme vetting doesn't sound like anything very much beyond what we have now, which is pretty extreme vetting of refugees, for example, who are coming from syria. they get extremely vetted. >> actually, i don't think we have extreme vetting. if you look at the visitor passports, the visas, and the

ability to slide in and out of here, there are people that are looking at the recent attacks and saying let's tighten it up, and again, it's not a muslim ban but a lot of americans would like it, especially places like yemen and -- >> somalia. >> that's a good one. you look at the different countries like france. and despite all his differences and despite what romney thinks about donald trump personally, does it view it as an act of patriotism, and does he take the job of secretary of state to get between donald trump and the rest of the world and step forward and take on the job? >> yes, he sees it as an act of patriotism. >> that's why it has been so damaging, this process of trump advisers trashing mitt romney for putting his hat in the ring

because it dissuades anybody that was anti-trump from trying to be part of the constructive solution. >> great point. you want to get the best and the brightest in there, and this person was against donald trump the entire time, but i am going to do -- who wrote the op ed. he was anti-trump after the election, we have a opportunity to help america's president any way we can, and so mitt romney -- >> like jeff flake on the show yesterday. >> like jeff flake yesterday. and mitt romney sticks his neck out and he has all these trump people crucifying him in the press, and what message does that send everybody else? looks like trump is standing by him. >> if we sat with him over the past eight years, which we have, and indicated to the -- >> we have been here a really long time.

>> and they said the republican opposition, and we hope you would think president obama would succeed because he's your president, too, we have to flip it now. he's going to be president of the united states, donald j. trump, and he's going to be president and we hope he does well because that means the country does well. >> and chris, it definitely -- you noticed it with the clintons, and where there's a lot of appealing to different groups, the donor groups or the left or this and that, and the one thing we learned -- i will say it again and i sound like a broken record. donald trump leaves you guessing, including his people, and including everybody that voted for him and everybody that opposed him and everybody that supported him and including everybody that was wrong about him, which is most people in the media, except for halperin, joe, and us, and there are not many and he is still working with

everybody. i think there are different rules that apply this time around. >> oh, i don't think there's any question about that, mika. >> that's all we know. >> yes. the other thing that i think we know, if you look at how he operated in the business world in terms of his inner circle, it's relatively small and he does not mind active conflict within it. you showed the story that the posts wrote about romney and the state department, and in that piece he talks about this is somebody who is not made uncomfortable by significant and even public disagreement, and that he will make the decision he wants to make, but this is what we may see as chaos -- right, that piece, and what we see as cha he views in a way, for lack of a better word, of creative tension, and maybe he goes to corker or petraeus, but

if it winds up being as the way it has been presented for the last two weeks, and if it's a pick between guiliani and romney i think it's a symbolic choice about what kind of administration we will have, given kellyanne conway's comments about mitt romney not being loyal to trump, and that will say something about his mind-set and what he wants his administration to look like because this is an important job ppb >> you look, though, and michael steele, at where we have gotten through this process so far, and we are talking about congressman price, soluted by republicans, and universal picks from a lot of never trumpers here, and it's down to corker or romney it looks like and this process does not look chaotic to me and it

looks like he is running a process the way you want to run a process, get people in and out of there and see how it evolves and get the best person for the job. >> all of that is very true, and what is different is what we have not seen before and that's the public nature of the process, in which you have open discussions about the potential nominees, and you have them coming before the cameras and doing interviews after their meeting and sometimes before their meeting with the president-elect, so instead of something that is typically in the past and a little off to the side and waiting for good guys like cillizza and others and eugene robinson to writing their piece about what happened, and you are seeing it real time and discussing it real time and you are part of the pick unlike what we have seen in the past, and it is different and unsettling for washington types that are used to the closed door and quiet

process where they have more influence and sway than clearly they have with this incoming administration. >> and the thing is, mike, you ask donald trump who got donald trump elected, he will say donald trump. all these people on the side that are yelling right now saying you can't pick this person or that person, as mika always says, he's the last person in the room and is not going to listen to them. >> chris brings a good point, he's not uncomfortable with people yelling at him. but chris, who has a easier time clearing the senate? >> mike, thank you for throwing that 65-mile-per-hour batting practice fastball, made me feel like i can still really hit. it's not even close. the problem for guiliani, and --

trump, who doesn't tend to be terribly bound by convention understands this, and, look, guiliani, since he left the mayor's office has a lot of entanglements business wise through guiliani, and partners through brace wall guiliani, and that will get looked at closely by the senate. if you read -- i have asked people who are pro guiliani, what is the case for him? this guy is not the most obvious fit through the secretary of state, and they say he has done a lot through his businesses, and romney has foreign experiment, and i don't want to predict rudy guiliani doesn't get through the senate, but that's a tougher confirmation, and corker is very well liked in

the senate and he might be the easiest. >> and they checked the numbers on guiliani, and he would get through, and i don't know where they get that. what about petraeus versus romney? >> that was their position on guiliani a week ago, and that position even now is changing becau because the longer guiliani is out there, the more they are realizing they are not going to get him confirmed for that position, and could he be confirmed for homeland security. secretary of state, no. and gene robinson, that's an issue that we might find also with jgeneral petraeus, and you can put general petraeus and guiliani on one side regarding ugly senate fights and on the other side you put corker and romney and both of those will fly through. >> yeah, corker and romney just sail through.

they both get some democratic votes. and, you know, guess what? they -- bob corker has a lot of foreign policy experience, and i don't think anybody doubts that mitt romney could duty job. i think that most people don't doubt that petraeus could do the job, however, i think he would have trouble getting confirmed, and i think you are right about guiliani, joe, i am not sure at all that he gets confirmed given his entanglements and lack of foreign policy experience. still ahead, another member of the fix team, phillip bump and kevin mccarthy. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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donald trump is up and tweeting this morning. just posted this. nobody should be allowed to burn the american flag. if they do there must be consequences, perhaps loss of citizenship or a year in jail. where this comes from, but it's a violation of the first amendment. hard to know what to make of that. >> here's a history of it, and you could always burn the american flag or december crate it. there's a 5-4 decision that barely passed. kennedy, as usual, wrote the decision, and was the deciding vote. >> i think many americans would support that. >> in 2006, i think it was 2005, 2006, the senate actually tried to amend the constitution to prevent desecration of the flag

and it only failed by one vote. i only bring this up to say maybe some people around him said, hey, this would not be a bad issue to push forward to stop people, kaepernick and others to respect the american flag. this is a closer decision, at least, than a lot of people assume. >> i think it's interesting to bring up, because hate crimes are obviously -- even yesterday after a terrible event, law enforcement saying we treat hate crimes like murder, and you could look at a connection between flag burning and that being the next level of some sort of hate crime. you certainly don't -- you see that with other symbols across the country, and in cases -- i don't want to dig myself into a hole but it's a bad thing to do. >> it is. but it's protected -- i would never burn a flag, and i -- >> come on, willie.

>> and you wouldn't because it's a hateful act. >> it is, but i don't find it to be a criminal act. it's protected, like it or not. >> is there a news pegged with this. where does this come from? >> it's random. >> a random morning tweet? >> it's a shiny object. >> it would surprise a lot of people like us, and we have grown up saying we can burn the flag but protected by the first amendment, and somebody maybe got trump's ear, and it was only a 5-4 decision. imagine putting democrats in the position, and editorial writers in the position to say, you know, to come down on the side of flag burning. yeah, they would proudly do it but all of those people that voted for donald trump, why

can't you appoint the fifth justice to make it 5-4 the other way. >> another post election decision to pit the elites against middle america. and taking stands that are in opposition, and open up libel laws against the media, and suggesting in other ways free speech should be curtailed. the power of the elites was somewhat limited and the media is not held in high regard, and newspaper editorials went overwhelmingly for hillary clinton and nobody cared. if he wants to keep fighting against the elites, this is one way to do it. >> i guess it is. >> here we go. >> i don't know about the timing right now. >> absolutely. why? we are talking about his transition -- >> i am trying to look at things differently, and every time something happens i try not to go for low-hanging fruit because

that has not worked in covering this story. >> the media doesn't know how to handle the tweets. >> yeah, they get very upset. >> and they have written stories about not knowing how to handle the tweets. let me talk to my democratic friends, and i sat on the democratic side which does not surprise my republican friends, just don't take the bait here, okay? just don't take the bait. let it go, you know. just let it -- >> you are making them seethe. they are annoyed. >> no -- >> no, they are annoyed. >> i am not making them seethe. i am saying this is not a fight you want to engage in when he appoints his next justice, fight it there. doesn't this seem elites -- when i say elites, i am talking about us around the table, but we are

not going to throw somebody in jail for a year or take away their citizenship, and a lot of people across the country agree with the four justices, and people will say it's unconstitutional, and it only failed by one, and -- >> we are in the age of hate. >> deep down i think a lot of the journalist that were rooting for hillary clinton at the end of the day were somewhat sad about the prospect of donald trump being out of their day-to-day coverage because of tweets just like this that give them so much excitement to cover, and it's the media frenzy and he's providing a dopamine rush to analyze and talk about the first amendment implications and what would it mean to free speech in america because of a tweet he does at 7:00 a.m. >> the difference between the host of the "apprentice" throwing that out there, and

it's more serious now than a few months ago. >> it's very serious. >> if you look at last night, he was up, and i won't get into it, but he was tweeting about another cable network obsessi obsessively, and he was retweeting like a 16-year-old trashing the network. >> what cable network? >> another one on the dial. he was going after cnn again, and he was up again this morning tweeting about cnn. >> they had a reporter that correctly pointed out there's no example or evidence that there was wide scale voter fraud, and that's a much more serious issue. when donald trump is out there and trying to suggest there was wide scale voter fraud and retweeting like some 16-year-old, and you have to prove it doesn't exist and that's not how it works, and it's sort of undercutting with a we expect american democracy to be about and what we expect our leader to represent, especially

like undermining the election you won is so baffling. >> as far as tweeting about networks, he's free to do it but why do you do it when you are having the most important meetings -- i just figured it out. all right. i think i know who he might pick as secretary of state. throw the red meat out there, and have everybody on the red meat and maybe you go with somebody like romney, or maybe you go with corker that attends the fire breathers, but you have given him this. okay, sorry. i will be quiet. i have to say, it's fascinating -- it's fascinating this case -- i never realized it was a 5-4 case. we know what the first question every trump supreme court pick is going to get when they go before the skwrajuju -- judicia

committee. the leap here, as alex correctly points out, you don't revoke the citizenship, and i don't know what the penalties were, but it's not revoking their citizenship. >> it's as drastic a step you can take, to say you are no longer an american. >> the supreme court, and for everybody that says he is going to be a tyrant, that's why we have the supreme court, trump could never do that. >> the supreme court would say that's unconstitutional. >> the point you make, though, is we are still subject to the wins of nine people and it's hard to predict where those nine people will wind up, and we can usually predict where they will

be, but with this it's hard to tell. >> we couldn't tell with the affordable care act. >> yeah, that was amazing. >> phillip, thank you so much. good to have the fix in this morning. >> we are fixed out. >> i think a lot of people are dreading thanksgiving this year. >> i think thanksgiving this year is an amazing opportunity. we will be around the table from people of -- who really came out of this very bruised. i want to pose a question maybe families in america can ask this year, what did you learn this year from all of this that changed you? >> i learned my hair is inadequate next to his. >> i will throw this water all over you. should i do it? >> please don't do that. >> i am really tempted. i need one person to say do it. and challenged families

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first we came close to missing out on a bill and melinda gates incredible partnership, because bill's opening line was do you want to go out two weeks from this coming saturday? [ laughter ] >> fortunately, melinda believes in second chances and the world is better for it. >> that was president obama last week poking fun at bill and melinda gates during a medal of freedom at the white house. that is one of hundreds taking part in the fifth annual giving tuesday campaign which is rapidly expanding to helping deserving communities and causes across the globe. last year the campaign raised more than $116 million from donors in 71 countries. joining us now, senior editor to

the economist group, and it's a measure to have you back on "morning joe." >> great to be back. >> let's talk to the economists for a second. how are the western countries responding to brexit and trump's election? >> well, different question for giving tuesday. everybody is sort of worrying about populism at the moment and how divisive that is, and one thing on giving tuesday is we see it as a secret sources that holds society together and america in particular, it leads the word inputting stuff back in the community and it's one of the reasons i am worried about some of the more extreme possibilities of trump and so forth because there's tremendous glue in this country, and i worry a bit more about some of

the european countries in that respect because they don't have that same culture of giving. >> you were one of the originals to jump in on giving tuesday. tell us, can you tell everybody briefly about it and how they get involved? >> the basic idea, you have all the attention giving to the bill gates of the world, and giving is something that is deeply part of the american psyche, and the original idea came on henry tims, and he said you have the great thanksgiving holiday and then followed by an orgy of shopping, and so why not have an opening day of the season, and everybody that cares about giving, and the interesting thing, it's catching on around the world, and 75 countries on giving tuesday here today, and tens of thousands of organizations --

>> any nonprofit, hash tag it and let people know what is going on. >> at the local level, all the cities like baltimore and all the different nonpraofit organizations are like a give campaign, and what its doing is taking online campaigning and making it real in terms of its impact off-line. >> make your donation and put a hash tag on social media and spread the world. you talk about the united states and europe in terms of being joiners, and i think there's a feeling in the country that you owe your society something back, if you have been blessed or fortunate, you should give back and help ts. >> it's part of the american dream that is alive and well, and people come here and want to make a better life for themselves, and i think, you

know, the vibe runs of giving could be a theme this time of year. >> can we go back quickly to economics and paolitics in europe. obviously italy, france, and germany next year have elections. do you expect more turmoil in those countries? >> i never have been more worried about the future of the european union. i think the brexit vote was an accident waiting to happen but still a very bad division. >> do you draw parallels between brexit and trump? >> yeah, i thought it would give a resraoeufl to trump at the time, and i worry that we are going to see the same with law pen who is a great politician. i worry, you know, who knows

what will happen in italy. germany, merkel looks more secure but you never know. >> matthew bishop, thank you so much. msnbc is part of the tuesday giving me movement, and you can go to givingtuesday.com for more information. >> being a journalist is more dangerous than i have known, and i like to support shelter which is a homeless group in the uk. kevin mccarthy joins the conversation next. we'll be right back.

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go blue jays. >> that's a johns hopkins thing. >> yeah, i thought it was toronto. >> no, a big lacrosse school. >> look at willie, from vandy, they beat the balls. kevin mccarthy, so great to have you with us. what do the first 100 days of the trump administration and the new congress look like? >> well, we're just going to roll out this week our new schedule. you will find more days in session, and the first days we are going to go after is bringing back article 1 powers. we have watched this executive branch in the last administration over stretch that from regulation and others, and you will see us move -- >> let's stop right there. do you think donald trump is going to willingly give back some of the power that barack

obama you believe took away from article 1? >> we talked to donald trump about this even during the election. this country works best when it has three co-equal branches, and the administration put 500 regulations in the first year, and people want to have three co-equal branches. next we will move into securing the border and do a budget for 2017 which gives us reconciliation which gives us ability and flexibility in the senate to repeal obamacare, and we will move forward on a budget for 2018, which gives us reconciliation to deal with tax reform, and there's infrastructure out there, and there's a lot to get done to get the economy moving again and that's going to be our focus. >> congressman, on infrastructure, the president-elect talked about a trillion-dollar infrastructure

package. how is that going to go down with certain components and elements of your caucus? >> well, people believe in making infrastructure happen. in my caucus, a couple concerns they will have. they are tired of passing an infrastructure bill that takes a decade before something gets build and they want to see it streamlined and how are we going to pay for it? that's where tax reform could be helpful. there was negotiations we had in the current congress with schumer and having tax reform with repatriation that allows money for infrastructure that at the same time makes the economy grow and pay for it, and we will have a heavy debate on how to build it but streamline it and get it done quickly. >> you said certain members of your caucus want something to happen immediately over a ten-year span, and tax reform, how quickly could that be

enacted and put into practice? >> all tax reforms starts in the house, which means weighs and means, and kevin brady already rolled out a plan in a better way that simplifies and goes to three rates and i think that will be a good starting point. i don't think you will find this happens in the first month, but in the first six months you will see great movement on this. this is a core element, and i think when you look at the frustration in america, especially the middle class being worthless today than eight years ago, growing the economy is number one, and i think this will give us some of the greatest amount of growth. >> phil mattingly is reporting mcmcconnell and flag burning, people like that pose little problem with our country but tinkering with our first amendment right. >> let me ask you that question. donald trump just tweeted that flag burners, he believes, should be jailed or strips of

their citizenship. what is your position on flag burning? >> in my neck of the woods, people don't burn them they honor them. but we have a first amendment right, but where i come from, you honor the flag. if somebody wanted to show their first amendment right, i would be afraid for their own safety, but we'll protect our first amendment. >> so to be clear, you don't like it, as we have said, but you believe that is protected under the first amendment? >> that's what the court upheld. i think the best thing we could have going for us is growing an economy. i don't know why anybody would want to burn an american flag, it's the great symbol of freedom and that all men are equal. >> amen. there are two important meetings at trump tower, donald trump will meet with mitt romney and bob corker. which of those two guys would you more likely to support for secretary of state? >> i don't have a vote in that because i'm not in the senate, but i will say this, i would

support the person that donald trump thinks makes the best addition to the team. i think donald trump sitting down with mitt romney says a lot about donald trump that people have not seen, and he is willing to look and not look based on whether they supported him but what would be the best edition to get the job done, and whoever he picks, that's the right of this president, and i would support the right for his selection regardless of which one of those two. i think both men are very capable and there are other people out there capable, too. when you are putting a complete cabinet together you want to make sure the entire cabinet works well together. >> do you believe millions of people voted illegally this election? >> i trust the election and the results. i don't like the idea of the recount or the other, and i think the election is over and i think it's time we move on and get our work done. that's been my focus. i will release the calendar today and members will find they

will be in session more days than in the past because we have a big job to do. >> to be clear, you disagree with the president-elect about the potential of wide-spread voter fraud this year? >> we have an election process, and we have individuals that uphold this election and go through the process, and i trust that judgment of where we go, and i want to move on, and i believe the election is over. >> so kevin, do you -- from what you have seen so far from mitt romney's selection, what is your take on donald trump's selection? what is your take on how this transition is going? >> i am looking at who he is selecting. today dr. tom price, i think that's a great selection from health and human services. i think for him sitting down with mitt romney, not just bringing him in one time but having dinner with him last night, and a serious consideration here and i think

mitt romney is up for a very serious consideration. i give donald trump credit. that's a little lincolnesque, putting a group together that maybe didn't support you or worked hard against you and you think they have a talent that could be an addition to the team. i think american public will look at donald trump in a different manner and say he's up for the job and seriously considering putting the best people in to be prepared. >> house majority leader, kevin mccarthy. thank you very much.

you are right, coker was the first establishment voice to come out. >> right. >> obviously there are issues, but i think that he is coming in to talk. and those are the ones that stand out. >> well, you know, it's interesting, willie, but mitch mcconnell the majority leader in the senate and the house have both come out and said in the past several hours that flag burning is protected by the first amendment. >> yeah, pretty clear on it. they say they don't like it, which is what we said, but it's protected by the first

amendment. >> i think the conversation abo flalg burning. >> we'll see. >> not saying it's going to be outlawed, but it's given everything that's happened since then. thank you so much. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> we saw after the third debate, we were consolidating. we had momentum. and we get to 11 days out when the fbi director takes an unprecedented action and throws a monkey wrench into the campaign that, you know, you couldn't have anticipated. >> let me -- >> you could see powerful that that stalled our momentum. >> weeks later, and ghosts of the election are not going away. we'll talk about the lessons democrats should be focusing on as they move forward. the vault to man's greatest wonders... selfies, cat videos and winking emojis. speaking of tech wonders, with the geico app you can get roadside assistance, digital id cards... or even file a claim. do that.. yeah, yeah that should work. it's not happening... just try again.

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the season of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. (bing) the big story right now is still president-elect donald trump. he has been busy tweeting again. that's right, he went on twitter yesterday to claim he actually won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of illegal voters and that any recount will change nothing. speaking of nothing changing, trump won and still says the election was rigged. i don't understand. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, november 29th. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. out west. back with us, we have veteran columnist mike barnicle. contributor to "time" magazine and msnbc political analyst, elise jordan, and former

chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele in washington. >> all right, so we have a lot going on. so much to get to you you're looking through the bappapers. anything good? >> looks like kellyanne got someone from "the new york times" to dictate a story for her, and they spit it out in a story for her, basically all the things that everybody was saying to me, she worked overtime all day yesterday to get that cleaned up. finally got a statement late last night. >> a picture of her in the post on the beach. >> then a story that went counter to "the new york times" story saying she wasn't in the inner circle anymore. >> politico had the accurate story. that's what i'm saying. she dictated into siri and "the new york times" printed it. i'm kind of curious why they did that, but the politico story -- >> the politico story was saying she didn't want to be communications director and press secretary. >> that's 100% correct. >> and she was looking to run an

outside group so she could stay in new york, and trump values her communications skill and her loyalty, she's no longer in the inner circle. >> she's not. in fact, you can even ask people that have been interviewed for the top jobs and they'll tell you she's the person that is never inside the room. when it happens. where it happens. so she's probably going to go outside of there, and she did, everybody inside the organization said that she went off on her own. but they obviously -- i guess, mike, you don't want -- i guess the reason why they dictated the story and ran it in the "times" and trump puts out a statement late last night is you don't want it to look like there's infighting. let it go away quietly. i know trump values her and all that other stuff, but she's not in the inner circle. >> she was really helpful to the campaign. >> invaluable. >> yeah. she really was. i think, and i don't know. i don't know this. but i just assume that donald

trump sort of enjoys this back and forth because it keeps his name, it keeps all of the attention devoted to him. what's he going to do today? who is he going to -- >> all the attention devoted to him. >> karl rove was right. it makes him look weak to have people going out and speaking on so many different tangents, speculating about this choices and to box him up, if he is interested in romney, and i think if he is doing this, if he has said, kellyanne, go and attack romney, take him out. that shows absolute disincentive to everyone who is considering joining the administration. >> from top to bottom, every source that knows trump, knows how trump thinks, says that she surprised him. and it was a shock to him. and also, he was irritated, is a polite way to put the fact she said he betrayed people who

supported him. let me ask, does anybody here and "the new york times" believe for a second -- >> okay. >> no, do they, that donald trump said, hey, i want you to go out and say i betrayed all of my followers by even looking at mitt romney? of course not. she got out ahead of her skis. she's obviously very frustrated because she's not in the inner circle, and the politico article was right. she was offered the position of communications director, but it wasn't big enough for her. she wants more. so it just didn't work. so again, if you're trump, you want to clean all this up. i know this. you want to make everybody happy. when i was in congress, they always joked whenever i gave them a raise, they said uh-oh, duck, he's about to fire you. you want everybody to be happy. you're laughing. >> i'm going to write that down. >> that's a truth in congress. give them a raise, and they're like, they're going to fire them. but listen, especially in transition, kellyanne conway

created a distraction. donald trump is doing what any leader would do, which is clean it up. he has his two most important interviews today for secretary of state. he has romney, and he's got corker. >> that's right. >> and if i could talk for a second on this because i don't talk a lot. >> you're wasting a lot of time on this. we have a lot going on. >> one thing that bugged me, everybody is going, this is just like "the apprentice." he's bringing people. that's what you want your president-elect to do. you want him to vet, is it giuliani, is it boellton, is it romney? this is the most important position. you want him to have a fair viewing and figure out who is best. >> when you come out out of all this back and forth and the infighting in the campaign, you look at the three people over the last 24 hours he's looking at, three good, serious people, general petraeus, romney, and corker. serious guys who would be good

secretaries of state. >> the candidates keep getting better. >> the kellyanne thing, she o b obily was one of the most important three or four people in the campaign. he has valued her throughout this. every time she came on the show, we were impressed by her. i do think when she went out publicly on the romney thing on sunday, it did not look like something that would be sanctioned by donald trump. very interesting, this whole clean-up. >> maggie's report in the times, does go back to his unwavering sense of loyalty. no matter what happens, no matter what she did, what she said -- >> nobody knows. >> was he that loyal to manafort, to lewandowski? >> i don't think they know. >> by the way, if a staffer gets out ahead of you, i'm sorry, that's in your head. and it's always in your head. but what you do is go i love the staffer. the staffer is great.

the staffer can work for me all the staff eer wants. get the staffer out. >> too much time. president-elect trump will meet for the second time with governor romney. these are things we do know. bob corker is also meeting with trump today and is believed to be in the mix for secretary of state. yesterday, trump met with retired general david petraeus. trump tweeted, just met with general petraeus. was very impressed. and petraeus spoke with reporters afterwards. >> meeting went very well. was with him for about an hour. he basically walked us around the world. showed a great grasp of a variety of the challenges that are out there and some of the opportunities as well. so very good conversation. and we'll see where it goes from here. >> as you know, in 2012, petraeus resigned from a cia post amid scandal. in 2015, he was given probation for passing along classified information. >> general petraeus going in to see donald trump, obviously, that provides comfort to a lot

of people in the washington establishment that thought he was going to select other people that were just loyalists before. willie said, the longer this process goes on, the stronger the candidates become. >> there's truth to that. i think you're rightuct how a lot of folks in washington are viewing the way this particular process for secretary of state is playing out. they're very, very comfortable with petraeus despite the hiccup of the issue with the documents and the trial and all of that. he's still held in high regard on both sides of the aisle on capitol hill. so his selection would send a very, very strong signal not just around washington but globally. i think, though, i don't want to miss too much of what's happening with kellyanne and mitt romney. there is a real concern that she reflected back among a lot of conservatives who supported donald trump about mitt romney taking such a role, and that's one of the reasons why she may

have gotten out over her skis. obviously, being put to the side a little bit, but also reflecting back that concern that's out there, and giving donald trump a warning signal. >> a warning to what, though? they're going to stay with him -- that's the funny thing. no, what are they going to do? oh, i'm not going to support donald trump because he picked mitt romney. there's not a single person out there -- >> but do you want the noise? do you want the noise when you have so many other things to deal with. >> donald trump doesn't mind the noise. what do you think, he's going to say, oh, mike huckabee and sean hannity doesn't want me to pick mitt romney. i'm going to hide under my bed. no, he doesn't care. >> donald trump doesn't give a damn. we got that. we fully understand that, but everyone else around him does. and it furthers the machinations inside and outside of the administration if romney is there. that's the concern to a lot of people. it's not as easily dismissed as some would like to dismiss it.

there are a lot of people other than kellyanne conway who have not been vocal about this publicly, who are vocal about it internally, and that's the bottom line. >> i'm not exactly sure where all this is coming from, but yeah, there is a freak out on the right. the headline in "the washington post," philip rucker, trump keeps eye on state department despite scorn from some loyalists. the guy is playing straight from team of rivals here. and we'll see what happens. >> yeah. >> you know, he has two choices now, probably. he's probably -- he could go with mitt romney and go big. and take a chance. or he can go with bob corker and play it safe. if he goes with bob corker, who is going to be upset at bob corker? donald trump, i don't see donald trump cowering in his corner saying, oh, all these people that mitt romney beat in 2012 might get mad at me if i go big. >> and i don't think anyone is saying that. i'm just talking about operationally and functionally, the question is how much of that

noise do you want internally? donald trump doesn't care. he likes the disorder. >> but michael, michael, the only noise internally based on all of my sources is kellyanne. does bannon like it? no, but he's not feg to go out publicly and say anything about it. people around donald trump understand. what did you say? who is the last person in the room with donald trump? >> donald trump, and also, the one thing we do know about donald trump, and it's the only thing we know, honestly, everybody, everybody in the media, is he likes to leave everyone guessing. all the surpleasing, it's the "apprentice." he doesn't care. he's not thinking this way. he's going to surprise you in some way, shape, or form. you can't add old traditions of reporting to donald trump. he's never cared and always bucked tradition and bucked the system. >> what he does care about is winning. and he's going to pick the secretary of state that he

thinks will help him win. >> yes. >> and sometimes, i would even suggest, mike barnicle, that obama loyalists may have been a little miffed that he picked hillary clinton. >> oh. >> this happens every four years and the people on the right are freaking out. >> that was the tale of bill and hillary that destroyed her candidacy. rigging the system from the get-go. >> whatever. this happens every four years, as meacham said. ronald reagan went to the people who tried to destroy him in three campaigns in a row, and his best staff member, james baker iii, who tried three times to destroy ronald reagan politically. >> and became arguably one of the best chiefs of staffs. and in 2008, when barack obama, incoming president-elect obama selected hillary clinton, there was a level of consternation among his supporters, close supporters, that he was going to

choose hillary clinton as secretary of state. the odds were that john kerry was going to be secretary of state coming out of that election. didn't happen. >> go ahead. >> i was going to ask on the giuliani question, because we heard these three names that have impressed a lot of people. any three of those. why is rudy giuliani's name still in the conversation? is that because donald trump has a loyalty to him? >> because donald trump is a loyalist. and he doesn't want to just brush him to the side. but he's -- they're looking at other positions now for giuliani. still in the mix. and who knows? maybe it ends up that way. but it certainly doesn't look that way right now. >> so, again, to finish the point about leaving people guessing, every move they're making right now and what i was trying to say is they don't care about a big reaction. the trumps are used to a big life. you know, this movement to the white house, everybody talking about melania waiting to leave, like oh my god, who in history has ever done that?

they're used to, quite frankly, handling a very big existence, and they're trying to figure it out for themselves. the meeting with the leader of japan, everybody second guessing whether the business interests are yicrisscrossing, i have spon to members of the family. they're literally trying to get through the day. they're trying to figure this out. the media needs to stop getting ahead of their skis on all of this because we're dealing with something we have never seen before. and so we have to just report on it until we can figure it out. there's no big story here in terms o the kellyanne thing, d there's no big story in terms of everything else until we know what it is. >> elise, i'm curious. you worked for condi rice, obviously, foreign policy has played a central role in your career. up to this point. what do you think about a bob corker or a mitt romney? >> i think they could both be steady level choices that could run the state department well. i tend to favor mitt romney over bob corker just because i think

mitt romney has had experience running larger organizations and as a manager. i think that's going to be really critical with the state department going forward. but i think these are both level choices that really could reassure a lot of our world allies. it's interesting to remember that with nixon, he chose henry kissinger for national security adviser. kissinger waited a week. he asked nixon if he could go and talk to his colleagues at harvard and make sure they were okay with it just because nixon was so scorned by the establishment at that point. he had been a nelson rockefeller guy. i don't think this is without precede precedent at all to bring in someone who opposed you in the primary. >> still ahead in "morning joe," crisis in korea as kim jong-un develops his nuclear weapon. the president of south korea is embroiled in a scandal that may cause her theophorous. we'll talk about a moment of crisis for a key u.s. ally and our interests in asia. >> first, breaking overnight, whipped winds sent wildfires

into the tourist towns of gatlinburg and pigeon forge. thousands were forces to evacuate, and even dollywood, the theme park belonging to dolly parton, had to evacuate guests staying on the property as fires approached. bill karins with a look at the wildfires raging out of control. >> we're starting to hear and see pictures of what the damage was like, and it looks really bad. over 100 structures look like they have been burnt and are a complete loss, and there's mixed reports from what the downtown looks like. they say many of the buildings in downtown gatlinburg have been burned overnight. this is new video from michael who lives up in the mountain above gatlinburg. look what he had to drive through to escape the flames. this video goes on, it's on my facebook page and on twitter, too. it's about four minutes long. he goes down many roads, has to stop, reverse, trees falling. a harrowing tale. they escaped death. the fire was hot, even in the vehicle. they were worried about the

tires catching fire. they survived to live to tell about it. we hope to have him on later today. he's exhausted and tired after being up all night trying to escape the blaze, but he did make it to safety. here's the gatlinburg area. they did get rain overnight. winds last night were gusting up to 50 miles per hour. they had been in a horrible drought. the rain helped a little bit. now they're saying the air quality is so poor, they're very concerned with the animals left behind because smoke can be a killer, too, because the rain knocked it all to the ground. they will get another round of rain later today. another inch expected. that will be this evening. they will get the daylight hours today with no rain. winds will be lighter. hopefully firefighters can knock down the hot spots. the other story, we could deal with a tornado threat. this could be life threatening. a very rare, serious tornado threat in areas of mississippi. we'll keep an eye on that. the fires in tennessee, and the tornado threat in mississippi later on tonight. our thoughts and prayers with everyone in the south. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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>> i just looked at the politico story. kellyanne conway's talk against mitt romney, exacerbated -- according to half a dozen sources involved in the transition efforts. conway slowly receded from the president's inner most circle, including interviews with potential cabinet nominees. so that's, yeah. that's what everybody inside the campaign that actually knows says. >> and i did think that it was perhaps a problem for her when steve bannon and reince priebus got their appointments in that first big press release. >> right. >> because she was campaign manager. she should have been up there, too. after so much talk about how great donald trump was with women and appointing women to high spots, she did seem to be somewhat overlooked in that initial appointment. >> okay.

let's move on to other news. south korea's embattled president has announced she is willing to resign over a corruption scandal that has caused her approval rating to plummet. >> willie, when we say her approval rating has plum lted, what would you guess her approval rating is? >> under 50? >> a little under 50. >> 48, 49. >> keep going. >> how bad is it? >> if you guessed 4%, you would be accurate, according to "the new york times" this weekend. >> the president said she will let the south korean national assembly decide when she should step down to insure a safe transfer of power. the announcement comes ahead of a pending impeachment vote expected to be called on friday. park has faced mass protests and already the first sitting south korean president to be a suspect in a criminal investigation. let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent keir simmons live from london. the scandal come s at a time of serious instability for u.s.

interests in the entire region. >> that's exactly right, mika. that's why it will be worrying people in washington. you talk about protests. there have been hundreds of thousands of koreans on the streets. now it looks like president park is prepared to resign over this scandal that is about whether a friend of hers extorted large amounts of money from korean businesses, and then let's get to the real point here, which is about, for example, the "wall street journal" says that the obama administration has warned the trump transition team that north korea is the biggest national security priority in the coming -- for the coming trump administration. i heard you talking about how we can view that trump transition team. well, just to see it another way, let's talk about the fears that folks around the world have about a trump administration, and if you take that asia situation, you have questions over relations between china and

the u.s. under a trump presidency. you have the row between the leader of the philippines and president obama. you have that north korean worry. you have the russian president heading to japan to meet with the prime minister there, and that, by the way, is not really about russia pivoting towards asia. it's about russia positioning itself in relation to washington. so when you're sitting in that part of the world looking at the way things are now, you are worrying about what president trump is going to mean and how he's going to handle all of these issues. >> keir, the president-elect is actually the final process of figuring out who his secretary of state is going to be. >> yeah. >> that list of items you just mentioned suggests that this really is, as usual, the most important selection he's going to make, and it has to be a name that's going to calm the waters across the world. >> and handle these issues. >> yeah.

it is exactly right. we're a long way from the obama/clinton pivot to asia, aren't we? there are some things he may be able to fix. i mean, the philippines, for example, we know about those unhappy exchanges between president obama and the philippine leader. there are some things that could be different, but i guess when you look at what president-elect trump has said, what he is likely to do as he goes out into the world is to look for things he can bring back to his electorate, hiss people, and say look what i got for you. in relation to china, for example, the issue with that, though, is what other instability will that cause, what fires may that cause, given the fact that there are already so many tricky situations. back to the north korea question. their fifth nuclear test just a few months ago was the largest so far, and if there's an argument between the u.s. and china, then china may not be very helpful on north korea.

>> all right, keir simmons in london, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," at one time, it was paul ryan who was expected to have a tough re-election to house speaker. now, with leadership elections tomorrow, nancy pelosi is the one facing a challenge. one of her supporters joins us in just a bit to talk about his party and their search for a common message. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on

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joe." joining us from capitol hill, congressman eric swalwell of california. house minority leader nancy pelosi nominated him to co-chair the democrat steering and policy committee ahead of tomorrow's leadership elections. he's supporting pulelosi in her bid to remain leader of house democrats. so i guess first of all, sir, congressman, make the case for nancy pelosi staying as leader, given everything that's happened. >> well, thank you, mika and joe. there's a lot of progress to

defend that we have made over the last ten years under her leadership with the affordable care act, with the work we have done on climate change and standing up for working families. also, new opportunities that she's given to younger leaders. i came to congress. i'm a millennial. the first of my family to go to college. i have $100,000 in student loan debt and she sent me to work to take our house democrats to 31 cities ina group i chair called future forum and she's given me great responsibility and given me and many others to lead. we're going to need many young leaders at her side in the fights ahead. >> willie geist. good to see you this morning. i understand your support for nancy pelosi. i respect your support for nancy pelosi. do you understand the argument that tim ryan is making in opposition to her which is that the democratic party failed at least in this presidential election and down ballot as well, but perhaps back even farther than that, to connect with the kind of voters who elected donald trump in areas like where tim ryan represents?

youngstown, ohio. >> willie, house democrats certainly didn't fail. in fact, if you look over the last 14 presidential elections. over 54 years, only one time did the party whose tick at the top lost win more seats than nancy pelosi. we picked up six seats in the house. that actually defies recent history. so i don't think you punish our leader because the top of the ticket lost. >> do you understand the point he's making about some of the voters that the democratic party has lost over the last few years? >> i don't blame that, and i don't think most of my colleagues blame that on nancy pelosi. our message of making sure we have wall street reform, standing up for working families. that's going to connect with voters across the country, and we have to make sure we understand why the top of the ticket lost those voters and make sure that we pick up those seats for house democrats. i have all the faith in the world that leader pelosi is going to help us do that, as she led the fight as the opposition leader in the bush years. >> congressman, why do you think the democrats have been losing their majority consistently in

the house over the last three elections? what message -- there must be a flaw in the message. you're not reaching the target group that built the democratic party. >> sure, and you know, i also look at the six million people who showed up in 2012 for president obama but did not show up this time. so we need to make sure that the people who believe in us are also showing up and believing they can help shape what's next. just going back to our own base, i think that's also something we need to do. i'm interested in making sure the millennials, this is the best educated, most diverse ever, and they could be a part of shaping the dream for americans and that's the work ahead. >> michael steele, jump in. >> congressman, real quick. to be honest, you look more like the face of where the democrats say they want to go. how do you reconcile that? you bringing this -- nancy is bringing you onto the ticket. we get that. but how do you reconcile going forward when you're trying to

talk to millennials who made it clear they want the party to go in a different direction? is this leadership going to be able to make that kind of a pivot? are you the voice that's really going to be out in front on this or is it really going to be nancy pelosi? >> it's not just going to be me, michael. it's people like sherry bustoes from illinois and matt cartwright from pennsylvania and hakeem jeffries from brooklyn who nancy pelosi nominated to help her. >> eric swalwell, thank you very much. we'll see what happens. thanks for being on the show. >> joining us now, author and msnbc contributor anand giridharadas. get me right. >> gear ed huh rods. >> how was the family meeting? how were the holidays? >> family thanksgiving in california, so the weather was an improvement. but i have to say, you know, because of genetic laws, my family looks a lot like me.

for people who look like us, it was the first thanksgiving my parents have been here since the late '70s. the first thanksgiving i think we celebrated with a measure of fear about the year to come. >> mm-hmm. >> physical fear, fear about what will happen to people who look like us and people of many other kinds in this country. and we're talking about the flag burning. >> right. >> thing earlier today. and that was a two-part issue where there was a flag burning as the crime that he wants to crimin criminalize and the punishment was the stripping of citizenship. when i think about the fear that i think we were experiencing at thanksgiving, it's not about the flag burning kind of thing. it's about the stripping of citizenship kind of thing, because we now have a president-elect who is actively calling in to question the of people who are already american to remain american. >> this fear that you felt at thanksgiving, had you felt it

before? like right after september 11th? >> no. i felt some fear after september 11th. that fear, and we have to actually give praise to george w. bush because that fear had zero institutional backing at the highest levels of society. so the fear i had because the fear you might have of criminals and rogue people, and i had that fear. >> do you parents feel that fear? >> absolutely. my parents, who love this country in the way that only people who actively chose it, can, now think about what is it that we have chosen? because for three decades for them and for slightly less time for me as a conscious person, this has been a country that has its flaws and has its crimes and hate crimes and has a very dark legacy but has not had at the highest levels of the presidency of the united states --

>> has anything happened to you personally or to your parents personally? >> fortunately, we have not been a victim of hate crimes. most of the abuse that i experience is online. and it's rampant. and it's organized. and it's very explicitly targeting race, the way i look, my right to say things on the basis of my color. >> nothing about your hair? >> you know, the hair gets a little bit. but i think what's interesting, we have actually seen this in other countries where actually in india where my parents came from, i'll make that connection. you had a leader they elected a few years ago who was in many ways parallel to donald trump. hard right, had even harder right allies getting him there. accused of fascistest tend nlss which he denied, and what hap n happened is when he came into power, it was not what he did that became the main problem. it was who he emboldened.

>> that's what i want to ask you about, because that will be the question in terms of emboldening certain forces in our society. i think the question is still open. online, have you seen an increase since this election? >> yes. i can't measure the numbers. >> because online is a very nefarious place. i get tons of hatred because i'm a woman. sexual things you wouldn't want to -- like every single day. so i mean, i think there's certain things that have been there all along. >> i think you're absolutely right. i'll tell you what i think is different -- >> can you blame trump for what you're seeing online? didn't you get that before the election. >> i did, but i'll tell you what i think has changed. i think it matters to have the institutional backing of a president-elect of the united states. have said a record of things jive with what you're saying. i think it makes you less of a basement troll when someone who ran on and flirted with and said some of the same kinds of

thoughts won an election. >> it's a license. >> it's a license. so if i'm to parse, as i do, as someone who looks at language very closely, some of the language in the tweets. it's not that the volume is lower or higher. i have no idea. >> it's a feeling of fear. >> on my end, but on their end, a feeling -- i'll tell you a line that's now included in a lot of tweets that wasn't before. which is trump is president now. go back to your country. trump is president now. like no brown people, no black people in america. trump is president now. so to me, it's that insertion of that line, which vereally dpaes >> what he does with it is important. >> do you hear in your family or any people you talk to, some immigrants who do not like donald trump and who are afraid of him who said the reasons your parents came, the strength of america, all the things they love, the opposition to trump, all those things will be stronger than one man and will survive this? is there some hope in there mixed with the fear? >> what's interesting, i had this, there is disagreement.

subtle disagreement within my family. i think there are some who have that view that these institutions are amazing because they have lived the amazingness of those institutions. they have -- they came from a country frankly with weaker institutions. they came here because of this country's institutions. but i have been reading masha gesin, who is a russian-born writer, and she wrote these wonderful rules for surviving. one is don't trust your institutions infinitely. and kwwe know our institutions serve us 97% of the time. 3% of the time, theyvent served us. >> we have to remain vigilant. understanding at the same time that we usually, history has shown that we have a separation of powers that usually breaks the back of every new white house that comes in and thinks we're different. we're going to be able to do

things that nobody else has been able to do. >> i think that's right. the question for people like us who are trying to parse this new administration is how do we weigh those risks? i think back to something i learned in college. pascal's wager. do you believe in god or not? this calculation that it's more rational to believe in god because if you're wrong, all you do is waste time. if you're right, you go to heaven. >> i think donald trump has been somewhat transparent about the things he knows and doesn't know. i met with two incredible woman who put together an organization called suit up, and we're talking about, because women are feeling the same way in some ways, some of the things -- >> absolutely. >> and it's what we can do. right now, how we can help. we're not at the point where we should protest something that isn't there. the president-elect is starting a new administration. >> i think the idea that it's not there is problematic. what is not there yet is policy because he's not president. >> right, that's what i'm talking about. >> but he made a bunch of statements and then won an election -- >> but he's president now.

do you protest for the fact that he's president? or do you wait -- >> i think protest is one instrument among many and it's not mine. vigilance. >> be vigilant, but you have to epikoo your eyes open to see. very concerned, for instance, about the tweet this morning, for instance. >> which we were talking about. >> i can tell you, though, in 1990, congress passed something banning it. the supreme court said no, you're not going to do that. they struck it down. >> let's stick with that for a second. >> we have institutions that do that. if i can just say, historically, i have been -- you know, when clinton was in, i assured republicans that the senator would hold. when bush came in and my democratic friends were freaked out because we heard every day they were ripping up the constitution, i said the same. when obama was elected, i was on the phone every day with crisis counseling saying the center will hold. what i have always told everybody is, and this is the genius of what madison drew up.

the most powerful person in washington, d.c. is the minority leader of the senate in the opposition party, because most of the time, if you can't get around mitch mcconnell, as barack obama found out, you're not going to pass anything. if donald trump can't do deals with chuck schumer, it will be a long four to eight years. >> i buy that. i think what you just described is the play book of normal times. if you look at this country's own history in moments of hysteria, fear, conflict, there have been exceptions. internment was an exception. >> who is hysterical right now? >> we can have that debate later. >> no, who's hysterical right now? >> what i'm saying to you is you may be right that in the absence of any kind of hysteria, national hysteria, fear, terrorist attack, war, in the absnls of all that, bluster may remain bluster. a guy tweeting may remain a guy

tweeting and all may be well. that's one scenario. i think we need to be alive to a second scenario that our country also gives us the basis to think about, and which i think is underrepresented in some of these conversations. which is that at certain moments, a terrorist attack of a particular kind that fills people with fear, gives the president a license to do things he could not do two days before. we know that with mass surveillance, we know it with torture. >> i don't think it's underrepresented. i think the problem is that that fear has been overrepresented in these papers. and you have a situation where it is the boy who cried wolf, and everybody keeps talking about him being a neonazi, and then what happens is what are you calling him next after you call him a neonazi when perhaps someone in the administration does suggest something that wants to challenge the constitution. >> you read history and you know very well, there have been moments like this where there have been disagreements about

the appropriate level of alarm. >> fdr. i'm talking about our country. >> the problem is if we oently talk about our country, we're not being fully vigilant. fwl we are, because as the editor of the economist said, our country actually is different. and by the way, there's a reason why dictators have not been able to do in our country over the past 240 years what they have binl able to do in other countries. that's because james madison put together a constitution along with alexander hamilton that created a system of checks and balances. >> they were able -- okay. >> that by the way, that will, and i said this to donald trump before when he was attacking paul ryan. i said on the air, paul ryan, he can shut you down. and stop you from passing any legislation. >> under that system of checks and balance, they were able to do torture. we were able to do mass surveillance. we were able to do internment, segregation, we were able to do slavery. so all i'm suggesting to you is that within our tradition of things that have been judged

legal, i'm not saying -- let's just say i'm ruling out things more worrisome than those things. we can agree those things at differenthistory have been considered constitutional. >> yes. >> it's never been overturned. >> so -- >> i understand the case for being calm. but if -- >> i'm not saying being calm. >> if you're wrong, what we get is something very much more dangerous than if i'm wrong. >> okay. >> that's all i'm arguing. >> that's why i said we stay vigilant. i personally have confidence in the supreme court of the united states and congress. and the system of checks and balances in our constitution that i do think that we're -- we don't need to jump out of -- they keep yelling at us to cut it out. we don't need to jump out of windows with our hair on fire. >> although how anand may feel, that's easy for us to say. your family, thanksgiving, talking about -- >> fear is not evenly

distributed right now. >> that's fair. >> fear is also contagious. >> fear is contagious. and we have nothing to fear but fear itself. >> also, it's a little scary that a month before he even takes over the presidency, we're already talking about the need for the supreme court to prevent -- >> that's scary to you. that's called the first amendment. you want the first amendment to suit you the way you want to suit it. i guarantee you, anand, there are 50% of americans at least who believe someone who burns the american flag should be -- >> and the whole point -- >> hold on a second. the first amendment also has its limits. i support the ability of people to be able to burn the american flag if they want to. but people have the right in this country to debate it. and it does not mean that the third reich is going to march down our streets. >> i didn't say third reich. >> okay. >> i don't worry about flag burning. >> we have to go because they're screaming in my ear. go. >> i don't worry about the

desire to criminalize flag burning. i worry about the punishment included which was the stripping of citizenship, which is outside -- >> that's not going to happen. the supreme court -- >> the president-elect of the united states -- the fact he proposes it -- >> you're not being rational now. i have to say this before we go. you're not being rational if you believe the supreme court -- >> i'm not being rational for taking the president-elect of the united states at his word? >> let me finish because you know what i'm going to say and you don't want me to say it because you know i'm right. the supreme court of the united states of america will never under any circumstances allow anyone to be stripped of their citizenship because they burned the american flag. >> if a president -- >> if you don't believe that, you haven't been reading constitutional law for the past sfenlt years. >> if a president were merely to propose it for me it would be a tragedy even if it's struck down. >> then it's a tragedy. >> thank you. >> but hitler is not coming back -- >> no one said hitler is coming down. but this is how many places that went in dark directions, many

places, this is one of the ways in which it started. >> be careful. and be careful not to spread fear if it's not rationally based. >> whei would never do that. all these fears expressed today are rational. gli >> it's always wonderful to see you. it is. this is great. isn't this what tv is about? it's not. it's about -- >> i'm afraid to answer. >> okay. see, fear is contagious. >> anand, thank you. i would like to hear more from your family as the days go by to see how things are going. >> bring your family. does everybody's hair go straight up? >> some do, except my dad. >> "morning joe" is phacin a moment.

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joining us from capitol hill, kristen welker. good morning. what should we expect today from the trump transition team? >> hey, willie. well, little interesting nugget that i just got mome wants ago. a top trump transition official telling me that we know that donald trump is meeting with bob corker today.

senator bob corker. potential candidate for secretary of state. and i was just told he is under very serious consideration. the reason why this is interesting is because, of course, it comes amid all this infighting over rudy giuliani and mitt romney. and we've been talking about the infighting for days now. i was told giuliani was a leading contender but it's gone back and forth. and a lot of folks saying it's opened the door for a third candidate. so we know that president-elect trump met with petraeus yesterday. when you thing about petraeus, he has challenges as well due to the fact he mishandled classified information. bob corker, someone who has advised trump, and he's someone who is widely respected. we're watching that meeting closely. also, mike mccaul, a potential candidate for dhs secretary. he's someone who has been out front in terms of cybersecurity issues. i'm here on capitol hill because senator sessions, president-elect trump's attorney general pick, has his charm offensive here on capitol hill.

he's going to be meeting with chuck grassley and other members here on capitol hill as he hopes to win confirmation. it seems as though he's headed in that direction but trying to make sure he gets off on the right foot. >> busy day between washington and trump tower. thanks so much. >> romney, corker, on the same day as trump tower. >> romney, corker on the same day, and the door has been opened back up for corker, which was closed and made some calls a few minutes ago. the petraeus meeting, all reports are the petraeus meeting went extraordinarily well. the president-elect blown away by david petraeus. >> he's the whole package. >> he is the whole package. so this is wide open. and it could be petraeus, c corker, or romney. david petraeus outperformed all expectations yesterday. even though people knew he was bright going in. >> we'll see what we hear today. >> up next, donald trump's win helped send the markets to record highs. now wall street is looking for

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so he's here. opec, what about it? >> if you care about gas prices, you should care about the opec meeting. wleel rr see if they cut production. what makes it more interesting to your audience is whether or not for the first time in a year, saudi arabia and iran are going to come together, ban their secular -- >> are they going to come together? >> they're talking. because the they don't come together, saudi arabia is going

to dump a bunch of oil in the market, collapse prices. but if they can come together, are we seeing a new kumbaya in the middle east. >> why would we think there could be? >> i don't think there will be. >> you're skeptical. >> i am skeptical because every meeting they say they're going to come together and every meeting they don't. if you think the same thing is going to happen over and over again and they don't, you are what? insane by definition. >> american oil. you were saying america doesn't need that oil anymore. how are we doing? >> 8.7 million barrels a day we're overproducing. every president since richard nixon has said we're going to end our dependence on foreign oil, and it's gone up. >> you're saying we don't need it. >> prices are down because it's too much oil. we cut off opec and produce more here, make america oil rich again, or we just embrace the new world order. >> do you know what you have done this morning? you have made america great

again, and we thank you for it. >> in 90 seconds. >> 90 seconds or less, but you think virginia tech will beat clemson. >> i guarantee it. >> elise, do you that that bet? >> i go with clemson. >> is your family an ole miss family or mississippi state? >> we're divided, but i'm going to go mississippi state because they crushed them in the bowl. >> that's what we learned today, willie. she's a bull dog. >> a bull dog. >> my brother is going to be so mad. >> is that what they are? i thought they were the catfish. >> just stop. that does it for "morning joe." stephanie ruhle picks up coverage right now. >> happy given tuesday. i'm stephanie ruhle. breaking news. a crash in the mountains, a plane goes down in colombia. 76 people killed, but five survive. a brazilian soccer team onboard. how did some make it out alive? >> also breaking, mass evacuations. a fast-moving wildfire in the state of tenn