south. ross perot got 19% of the vote back in 1992. but this year, the third party candidates combined, gary johnson and jill stein, only got north of 5% of the vote. so what's more, in all of these cases, by the way, wilson, nixon, and clinton, those three actually were the popular vote winners, unlike trump. all of that may explain why donald trump's latest claim of voter fraud is his focus when it come to explaining away why he lost the popular vote. that's all for tonight. "with all due respect," though, starts 18 seconds left. i'm mark halperin. >> and i'm john heilemann. and with a all due respect to donald trump, who's suddenly an expert on flags. >> i don't know what the 13 stripes represent. >> mr. trump, would you mind if we asked to see your birth certificate?

all right. on our political pantone color palette tonight, trump's congress, friendly white house, more blood-red chum in the water on twitter, and the green party's jill stein will be on this show in a few minutes to talk about her great presidential recount expedition of 2016. but first, a shave that we like to call the obamacare blues. donald trump kicked off the day with a new cabinet announcement, nominating georgia congressman tom price as the head of the department of health and human services. price is a six-term house republican, an orthopedic surgeon, and a longtime arch enemy of both the affordable care act and the medicare system, as it is currently constituted. >> the president is delusional if he thinks the concerns we have about obamacare is that it was passed by a democratic president. >> this is realtime stuff by real people and real people are getting hurt because of the president's program. this is unconscionable. >> i've practiced medicine for over 20 years. the disruption he's causing for men and women who are out there

trying to care for patients in this country is astounding. >> we absolutely must get a handle on the spending in this country. in order to do that, it has to be through medicare reform, medicaid reform, and social security reform. all three of those programs under current law is are destined for failure. >> i said, we've got a plan that puts patients and doctors in charge, and give me a call. and i gave my phone number. amazingly, the president hasn't called yet. >> amazingly, hasn't called. price has repeatedly proposed legislation to replace obama's signature health care law with a measure that would, among other things, offer age-adjusted tax credits. today chuck schumer called trump's hhs pick way out of the mainstream on obamacare and told reporters there may be enough senate votes to block confirmation, citing price's controversial view that medicare should basically be privatized. trump also appointed seema ver ma, an indian health policy expert to head the centers for

medicare and medicaid services. so mark, this is a big appointment. not as big as maybe the secretary of state, but a pretty big one, anyway. what do you make of the price nomination. and what do you think it portends for the debate ahead over health care policy in america? >> donald trump didn't win the popular vote, but he ran against the affordable care act, pretty much every republican who's run for public office in the last six years or so has run against it. i think it would be hard to argue they don't have the mandate to change the affordable care act. i think they're going to go slower than some people think. i think they'll get a chance to rye the free market ideas republicans have wanted to try for a while to lower the costs of health care and in some way expand coverage. and i think donald trump will expand some republicans by going back to his pledge of saying, there should be universal health care coverage. i think he is going to be very resistant to kicking people off of coverage who have it now. i think he's going to be very resistant to roll back things people have. so this is going to play out over time, but in price, republicans who want to scrap it

now have the best advocate they could have in terms of his leanings. >> i should say, because i'm an idiot, i referred to seema has an indian health care advocate. i meant an indiana health care expert. one of the new mysteries as we head into the age of trump is what trump believes about a whole lot of things, and to me, health care is one of the most pressing mysteries. what trump thinks. for a long time, trump was a democrat, basically, and in favor of universal health coverage. he, in this campaign, even though he talked about scrapping obamacare. he was way to the left of most of the republican party when it came to his views about entitlement reform and medicare reform. so, the questions now are, having put price in this job, does that mean that trump is basically subjugating his past views about health care policy, and particularly on medicare, to price, or are they on a collision course, because truly, the things that price has

advocated for, both in terms of the affordable care act, historically, and in terms of medicare, currently. those are not things that donald trump has ever said he was for, again, other than the general notion that obamacare should be repealed and replaced. i don't know how much daylight there's going to be between the two of them. it's going to be fascinating to watch it play out. >> it will be. but, of course, you could say the same thing about the speaker of the house, about mitch mcconnell, about almost every republican donald trump's going to have to deal with. they don't talk about universal coverage. they don't talk about avoiding big restrainting in spending in medicare and medicaid. so it is going to be fascinating to spell out, but i think in price, trump has somebody who is going to be like most republicans on capitol hill, but like with everything, he's going to make the final decisions. >> yep. >> and he cares about universal coverage. we'll take him at his word. >> for now. >> trump tower was once again the scene of many comings and goings through the lobby up and the elevator. there was a cameo today by the former vice president of the united states, dan quayle, who

reportedly had a hoosier breakfast with vice president-elect mike pence this morning. suspense continues to mount over who donald trump will ultimately pick to be secretary of state. this afternoon, the president-elect sat down with the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, bob corker of tennessee. later this evening, trump is having dinner with one willard mitt romney, another face-to-face meeting. still, though, there's a lot of talk about the meeting trump had yesterday with the retired general, david petraeus. that conversation had trump himself saying he was, quote, very impressed. so, john, a lot of buzz about petraeus now. and maybe petraeus being the front-runner in trump's mind. would petraeus be a good pick? what kind of secretary of state would he be? >> well, let's just pause for one moment, because i don't get to take a victory lap all that often. but you will recall yesterday who someone on this program named me said was the front-runner and that would be david petraeus. the conventional wisdom has caught up that petraeus is suddenly in the lead. i think that he -- look, there

is no one, literally no one in america, who has as much military expertise as david petraeus. but the secretary of state job is not a military job. petraeus is not only a military expert, but has a great political antenna. he knows the world extraordinarily well. we talked yesterday about the vetting issues that he will face and about the compare and contrast between the things that got him in trouble in terms of handling classified material, for which he was convicted, and the things of which hillary clinton was accused of by donald trump. so there's some interesting political questions. but is he qualified to be secretary of state? for sure. >> look, there's some questions in people's mind about whether he can handle classified information now, under the agreement that he made. that has to be worked out. i think the establishment would be, maybe, as happy or close to as happy with petraeus as they would be with trump. i still think -- romney. ting there are some people around trump and maybe trump himself concerned about the notion of retired military, as we've talked about, and the big

three national security jobs, assuming mattis gets defense along with his security adviser pick. i think it's still in the balance. i think the dinner tonight will go a long way towards if trump decides having just met face to face with petraeus, whether he's going to go with petraeus or romney. but i think at this point, don't count corker out. trump has now built this up in a way, and i think he'll give it one last hard thought before he pulls the trigger. >> i certainly agree with that. and i think the dinner with romney tonight is not for show. i think it's a real thing, based on everything i hear from people talking around trump. but it may be, i think republicans would be happy with -- the republican establishment would be happy with romney. the republican establishment would be happy with petraeus. you know who else would be happy with petraeus? a lot of the democratic national security establishment. people who wanted petraeus to run for president, as an independent, or as a democrat, even. he would be the most bipartisan pick that trump could make, and it could be a -- i mean, again,

putting aside the betting issues and the classified material, which are real issues, it would be, i think, at least on the national security establishment would be applauded in a bipartisan way. all right, let me get on to the next topic, because i went way long there. donald trump is expected to announce another cabinet pick today, naming former labor secretary, elaine chow, as the next head of the department of transportation. that would put her front and center in order to pass that giant infrastructure bill that trump covets through congress. luckily for chow, she has a man on the inside, her husband, senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell. we have seen a lot of trump appointments who are either in congress or have close ties to capitol hill. in addition to tom price, trump has bestowed big jobs on jeff sessions, attorney general, and congressman mike pompeo, as cia director, and he's said to be seriously considering spots for bob corker, tom cotton, and house republicans such as mike mccall, jeb hensarling, and lou

b barletta. in short, the outsider president-elect is stacking his team, or appears to be preparing to stack his team with capitol hill insiders. so, mark, if trump hopes to make good on any of his campaign promises, he's going to need help bigly from the legislative branch. so what does the team he's building stem cetell us about h forthcoming relationship with congress? >> well, pence and priebus are putting a premium, clearly, on finding people to work with trump in the cabinet, in the white house, that have good ties with capitol hill and it raises a question of what is steve bannon's role? steve bannon, i don't think, would be wanting all of these establishment figures, all of these people who i think he would argue would be part of the problem. but there's no doubt that if trump's legislative strategy is to play everybody off against each other, to move the legislation quickly, the picks he's made are pleasing to republicans on capitol hill, and in some cases, i think fine with democrats on capitol hill.

although, obviously, price is not fine at all with them. >> look, they obviously would all prefer more liberal picks, but they know they have a republican president to deal wit wi with, and they would rather see trump dealing with devils they know rather than devils they don't know. i think we'll see something this week as he goes on his victory lap, heads to cincinnati, ohio, and a couple of other places. and the reason i mention it, there's always for a president the inside game and the outside game. it looks to me right now that priebus is in charge, to some extent, along with trump in playing the inside game in a very inside way. the question, when trump goes out to americaland, is that where we're going to see the influence of steve bannon? and we're going to see maybe the way this is going to work in this white house is that steve bannon is going to be the guy playing kind of in charge of the outside message, while priebus is in charge of the inside finagling in terms of dealing with capitol hill? >> look potentially for some

economic appointments in the next 24 hours, including someone with wall street ties or two guys with wall street ties and a democratic, potentially. >> wow, i would like to hear more about that. that was a very deep tease, but we don't have anymore time. we'll move on. up next, we have donald trump tweeting again. we'll also talk about his latest social media rant and how the media has been covering it, right after this. ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief,

try doctor-recommended gaviscon. he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad.

male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. i'm milissa rehberger with breaking news. we are learning new details about donald trump's cabinet picks. nbc news is confirming that trump is expected to nominate steve mnuchin tomorrow to head the treasury department. mnuchin spent 17 years at goldman sachs and served as finance chair for the trump campaign. trump is also expected to name billionaire investor wilbur ross as commerce secretary. and of course, tonight, trump is having dinner with mitt romney who is in the running for secretary of state. more details as we get them. now back to all d"with all due

respect." last night, trump began trolling jeff zeleny around 9:15 eastern time last night, retweeting some of trump's name calling supporters, including one whose twitter profile says he's 16 years old, they were upset that zeleny dismissed trump's totally unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud, costing him millions of votes in the election. trump's cnn bashing continued this morning, but it was quickly overshadowed unprovoked trumpian contribution to the animnals of history and the media went wild. >> president-elect trump called for a banning of flag burning this morning. >> it's this tweet by the president-elect this morning. >> president-elect trump has a new tweet. [ speaking foreign language ] >> we don't know who his tweet -- >> trump went on a twitter

tirade going on a cnn rant. >> going after jeff zeleny on his very, very good reporting. >> heard from a couple of people who work in his orbit, let's say, and they, you know, asked how many new twitter followers i got. >> an albino one, they don't look like that, usually. that one keeps going on and on and on. >> and donald trump keeps going on and on and on, on twitter, right? >> trump's tweets have a tendency to distract from more unflattering story lines, like, say his business conflicts of interest. and when that happens, the media has some coverage choices to make. we could ignore trump's trolling and conspiracy theory tweets, but that would effectively mean accepting this as the new normal of how a president-elect should act online and not calling him out for it, or we could cover trump's digital outbursts and risk playing into his apparent games of misdirection. so john, what do we do? >> you know one of my favorite phrases mark is the phrase, false binary, either or. and i say both. let's cover both of these things

and cover them both aggressively. the real stuff, the business conflicts of interest, the things that trump is doing on substance that are problematic, but also, temperament matters in a president. and the idea that we are having a discussion about the president-elect of the united states and casually referring to him as a troll. and he was trolling jeff zeleny last night. it's ridiculous that he behaves this way, it's childish, and it is, if he continues to do it as president-elect, and as president of the united states from his twitter account, it's genuinely dangerous. i think we have an obligation to call out the falsehoods when he tweets them and i think we have an obligation to cover the other stuff with relentlessness and rigor. >> agree with all that. assuming there's a daily briefing once he takes off, i hope the white house press secretary is so intensely questioned about this stuff that it has an impact. i'm not totally optimistic about that, but i hope that happens. and i think that people around trump should be questioned about it all the time. and i think they've got an obligation to get him to stop. it's so bad for the office of the presidency, it's bad for the

public. i will say, this is a freak show. the stuff that's the loudest the most out there is going to get coverage, get coverage in some corners. unfortunately, there's nothing we can do, to some extent. >> i don't mind him being untraditional, i just mind him being an uninformed liar in social media. that's my problem. >> and a troll against jeff zeleny. >> which is really maybe the greatest sin of all. we have not heard have in campaign autopsies from within clinton world since the election, but we have gotten a new drips and draps about how her team views and explains her stunning loss on election day. on the 15th, joel benenson spoke to a little-noticed nyu panel in florence, italy, and here's one reason he offered up for why his candidate fell short. >> a lot of the coverage and the obsession with nate silver and 538 and the upshot focuses on who's going to win, what's the probability they're going to

win? and when we have people talking about there's a 93% probability that hillary's going to win, you don't feel that the election is at stake as much as you do when you hear, hillary leads by two points in the polls. there's a very big difference in going out to vote when you think there's only a 2-point difference, but then there are these signs and geniuses who tell you it's of near certainty that shaes going to win. and i think that adds a whole other issue for the media, as they think about this, way too much attention on that kind of data, instead of what's really going on beneath the surface with voters. >> mark, in the long and storied history of this program, i have rarely asked a question to which i was more certain of what your answer was going to be. here it comes! does joel benenson have a point? >> i'm not sure why you feel that way? i think he has a small point. i think the news organizations that turn their prominent real estate over to the ridiculous averaging of polls, often by people who have never covered a presidential campaign event, bear some responsibility. and i do think that could have discouraged some voters. but benenson's own data

suggested the same thing, that hillary clinton was going to win easily. and i think the fact that those people who didn't vote for hillary clinton who she needed were more discouraged by her lack of a clear message than they were by what was on some website. >> right. >> so he's got a tiny little point, but, man, they're taking some criticism, and justly so, from people who are questioning, blaming comey. did comey play a role? sure. blaming the upshot? sure. but that's not the fundamental reason why she lost. >> it was the first part of your answer that i anticipated, because i know how you feel about this matter and how i feel about this matter, which is that the excessive specificity and certainty and alleged, now discredited precision of these polling averagers who then would come up with specific percentage likelihoods that she was going to win is ridiculous, was ridiculous, and i know in places like "the new york times," there's a huge amount of hand-wringing and retroperspective analysis on whether or not the upshot in giving that much real estate to the upshot and the prominence it got was a good idea on the part

of the gray lady. but i agree with you, also, it's not the thing that made the difference in the outcome on election day. >> yeah. all right, some great reporters coming up. later, we're going to ask the green party's presidential candidate, jill stein, about her election recount maneuvers when we come right back.

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post," who's down in washington, d.c., and here in our studio in new york city, bloomberg's very own jennifer jacobs -- no, epstein. epstein, i always forget which one is which. i'm kidding! great to see you. i'll start with you, because you're sitting next to me, jennifer, now that you're not covering the trump campaign. now you're over at trump tower covering the transition. briefly say what's different in your life as a reporter covering trump versus covering clinton. what's the most interesting contrast? >> the most interesting contrast is going from a level of frustration where we were always wanting more specificity of details about logistics and policy ideas to just like wanting any answer, wanting any response, wanting any sense of, can we go home for the night or do we have to stay here for longer? so, it's a different kind of thing. i'm also just getting used to being in new york most of the time, versus being on the road most of the time. >> so the trump campaign seems a

little more organized than the clinton -- a little less -- >> yeah. i don't know if that would be controversial. >> just interesting to hear from you. jenna, i want to ask you, you wrote this story, i found it totally fascinating, listing all of donald trump's campaign pledges, or at least as many as you could divine or discern or find. what motivated you to do that and what stood out to you from having done it? >> well, that's a great question. i'm kind of questioning why i did it, because it took a solid week to get it done. right after the election, i had written a column back in january, so months and months ago, listing all of donald trump's campaign promises at that point. and at that point, there were 87 of them. and in the days after the election, that list suddenly took on a life of its own online. people were circulating it, they were talking about it, they wanted to see all of his promises in one place. and so i said about updating the

list. and it took forever. he has promised so, so many things on the campaign trail. i went back through everything on his website, through speeches, policy speeches that he gave, tweets that he sent, and the number that we finally settled on was 282 big promises that he's made. >> that's a big number. >> jenna, which ones do you think he's going to try to fulfill first? >> well, there's a few on there that are a little bit more fun. he has said that he would never participate in a bicycle race so i think that's the most likely one to come true. >> but he can't fulfill that -- he can't fulfill that one until he's out of office -- >> that's true! >> at any moment, he could participate in a bicycle race. >> that's true. that's true. so he's said that immigration, jobs, and health care are going to be his first big things that he's going to do. and a lot of things he's promised to do on day one, the

minute he gets into office. getting rid of a lot of executive orders that president obama put into place, and so i'm guessing that's really going to be the first that i think we're going to see happen. it's doable. it's something that he can do on the first day or within a few days. >> jennifer epstein, we get all of this focus on personnel because of the personalities involved in naming the cabinet and the comings and goingings at trump tower. what's your sense of how much policy work or legislative planning there is going on? >> i think that that is still kind of at a kind of nascent stage. i think that this is very much still about figuring out who the people are. and some of the planning for who the people are should reflect what the general overview of policy directions is. and i think that that's probably some of what the debate is about, in terms of talking about something like the secretary of state back and forth that's been going on, i think that that speaks to donald trump's

struggle to figure out exactly how he views the world, or how his world view can translate into being president. >> okay, jenna johnson, jennifer epstein, we like you guys so much, we won't let you leaf. stay where you are. we'll come back and talk to you some more, after these words from our sporpss. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid.

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snch snch . we're back with bloomberg's jennifer epstone and "the washington post's" jenna johnson is in d.c. jenna johnson, what is your sense of secretary of state position now? >> well, that's a great question. from everything we gather, mitt romney's really the leading choice at this point. but donald trump has been meeting with other people, considering other people including david petraeus, bob corker was also up at trump tower this week. tonight's the big night. he and mitt romney are having dinner together. i guess we'll see what happens after that.

these two have a very long, stormy history. the fact that they're even sitting down to dinner i feel like is a major step forward for both of them. so we'll see what happens after that. >> jennifer epstein, the national security jobs have gotten so much attention, but the big jobs are coming. let's say hypothetically that steve mnuchin, a democrat who worked at goldman sachs, and wilbur ross, a longtime, very wealthy financier, let's say they were named to treasury and commerce. what do you think their reaction amongst trump supporters would be to those two picks? >> i think that there would probably be divided reactions, you know, symptom trump supporters have been very clear throughout the campaign that they kind of support whatever positions the president-elect takes. and, you know, if he thinks that this is the best person, that's the best person. but i think for somebody who is a real economic populist and said he's going to drain the swamp, he's going to get rid of

all the people from the big banks and from wall street, that this could be an upsetting thing. and this is certainly going to be upsetting to the left, which, you know, probably wasn't going to be happy with any picks that donald trump would have for these jobs, but certainly, you know, there was all this talk on the democratic side, about could somebody who had worked at goldman sachs 15 years ago get a top job at treasury? somebody like mnuchin is somebody who would get reluctance from dems. >> we'll have jill stein on the show a little later. there's a lot of questions about the role the clinton campaign is playing. mark elias wrote that letter on medium over the weekend and said, we're not pushing the recount, but we'll do what we can to make sure it happens in a smooth way. today, they kind of leaned in a little bit with stein on the question of pursuing a court order to make sure that the hand recounts happened in wisconsin. what do you think, in this campaign that you covered for so long, what do you think's really going on in terms of how the clinton people feel about these

recounts? >> they don't seem to think that they will ultimately change the result of the whole election, and that would certainly be a pretty big thing to happen. >> the margins are very low? >> especially in pennsylvania, 70,000-vote margin is probably insurmountable, and without winning all three of those states, nothing would change for the overall result. but they are trying to lean into this idea of the integrity of the vote. and that that's what they believe in. and i think that they're certainly -- somebody like mark elias, who's a big democratic lawyer, you know, is also thinking about president for future elections that may also be tight. >> jenna, i want to go back to the weekend and a candidate you've covered, donald trump and his twitter outbursts about the stolen -- millions of people voting illegally, in what was basically a tantrum provoked by these recounts. there's virtually no one who thinks that these recounts will

change the outcome, given that the numbers of votes are so large, relative to past recounts that have ever moved votes. so what is going on in trump's head when he decides to get on twitter and engage in that kind of a tantrum? is it just a diversionary tactic, or can he not control himself? >> that's a great question. i wish i could be in his head, as he was making the decision to send that tweet, because it just really doesn't seem to help him in any way, shape, or form. the most that i can guess, having watched this man for the past year is that he cannot handle being questioned or attacked. if he feels like he's been punched in any way, shape, or form, he's going to punch back. if he feels like he's lost or he hasn't quite won as much as he should have won, he's going to defend hilmself. so that's exactly what we're seeing. it wasn't enough to win the electoral votes. he wanted to win the popular vote, too. and he wants to come up with

some sort of answer to explain why he didn't win the popular vote. and i think that's -- i think that's exactly what we saw happen this weekend. >> jennifer epstein, during transitions, presidents-elect have to think about what their obstacles are, who's standing in their way of achieving what they want to achieve? are democrats doing anything that creates a problem for the incoming administration? >> thus far, they haven't really laid out too much of a plan. we've seen the beginnings of there's definitely going to be plenty of democrats on the hill and outside groups digging into the ethics of all of mr. trump's business interests and how those fit into what the government does. you know, i think that's probably the confirmation hearing for jeff sessions will be very hard-fought. but -- and i think maybe even the tom price hhs could be a

little bit controversial. but again, democrats can only do so much and can only speak out and, you know, it depends on how many of them want to just give the president-elect what he wants out of courtesy, which i think some will do, and how many want to kind of make a stand from the very beginning that they're going to stand up to every single thing that donald trump does. >> yeah, all right, jenna johnson and jennifer epstein, thank you both. appreciate your coverage and joining us, as always. we're going to check in with the communications director of the trump transition, the jason miller about the latest cabinet picks. and more in just a moment. if you're watching the show in washington, d.c., like jenna johnson does on occasion when she's not traveling, you can listen to us there on the radio radio, on bloomberg 99.1 f.m. we will be right back. compared to oral-b 7000, philips sonicare flexcare platinum removes significantly more plaque. this is the sound of sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. hear the difference? get healthier gums in just 2 weeks vs a manual toothbrush

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welcome back. just a few blocks away from our studios, donald trump has been holding administrative job interviews in his golden tower. here with us, the very forthcoming, non-spinning, jason miller. mr. miller, welcome back. >> mark, good to be with you. >> do you know who the secretary of state's pick is going to be or you don't know? >> i think the president-elect is continuing to work on the process, and when he's ready to announce it, he will. but he's obviously chatting with some very highly qualified, well-talented individuals and will be excited about the pick wherever he announces that. >> since you don't know, speculate widely, who do you think he will pick? >> obviously, there are a number of folks who have come through. he's having dinner this evening with governor romney.

you would have to throw former new york city mayor rudy giuliani into the mix. there's some other folks that he's chatted with as well. but i think, ultimately -- >> jason, you're churning here. we know who's on the list. one of your colleagues raised with me this notion that perhaps under david petraeus' plea agreement, he can't handle classified information for some period of time, which would make being secretary of state problematic. do you know anything about that? >> i've never heard anything about that. but general petraeus would be a great addition to the administration. and i think he could potentially be up for a number of different posts. and heck, even if he doesn't formally come inside the administration, we've seen even the obama administration has brought him in to consult on different matters. he was at the white house a couple of months ago, so he's a well-respected mind and experienced leader. so i think you could see him potentially playing a role in a number of different capacities. >> so, jason, one of the subjects that a lot of people are focused on right now is potential conflicts of interest for the president-elect when he becomes the president of the

united states. normanizen, the chief ethics counselor for barack obama said basically the other day that if donald trump doesn't get rid of his entire business holdings, liquidate it and put it in a blind trust, he's going to be violating the constitution of the united states and if he's not willing to do that, the electoral college should reject him. so what's the transition's view about that claim? again, a bipartisan claim by a republican ethics lawyer, a democratic ethics lawyer, who looks at the constitution and says, you can't have all these foreign holdings and be president. >> well, one of the things to keep in mind and i think voters recognized this when they voted for donald trump is he's one of the most successful businessmen our country has ever seen. that's part of the reason they want someone who's not a politician, who's been a success in a number of different fronts and started different businesses that have taken off and done well. yes, there is a transition period where he's moving from being a full-time businessman from to a full-time president of the united states. and obviously he's working with a team of lawyers and accountants and getting everything transitioned over. and he will be ready to be the full-time president of the

united states by the time of inauguration. now, how -- exactly how long does that process take? heir still working through that. he has a number of businesses that he's been very successful. so i don't have a specific timeline for our. but that's where his focus will be. >> we've got article i section out of the constitution. it says that the president of the united states can't accept money from abroad. that's basically what it says. it has more complicated language than that, but is his posture colon currently some way that he could maintain his foreign holdings and still be president of the united states? >> his posture is, he knows what the job is at hand. he's been elected to be president of the united states and that's what he's preparing for. so whatever ultimate arrangement they come to with the business holdings, we'll make sure we're on sound constitution naal grou. >> let me one ask you one more thing, the hotel down in washington has a contract with the general services administration. it's pretty straightforward. the contract has language in it that says no elected official of the government of the united

states should be admitted to any share or any part of this lease or to any benefit that may arise there from. so he'll be president, therefore, an elected official. how does mr. trump have to deal with that immediate problem that he faces, that he'll be in violation of his lease and face another conflict of interest. >> i don't think that's necessarily the case. i did speak with our general counsel today and they're working through all of those -- >> may not be the case because of what? that the contract doesn't say that? >> i'm not our general counsel, so i'll leave the legal interpretations to them. but again, our full goal is to make sure that the president-elect is in complete constitutional sound footing by the time he takes office. by the time he takes office, we're not worried that there'll be any issues. >> jason, these trips that mr. trump is taking starting in ohio, i guess the vice president-elect is going to go on some of them, what's the format of those events going to be? are they going to look like his campaign rallies or something

different? >> it's a combination of a couple of things. it's an opportunity for the president-elect and vice president-elect in some cases to say thank you to the american voters for giving him this opportunity to serve the american people. but i think the other thing, too, you're going to see is the president-elect talking about what he's going to be doing for the american people. that's really what the main focus is. we've gone through this campaign, it was a long campaign, and everyone talked about, when is this going to end? when will we start moving the country in a similar direction? that's really what this is about. continue laying out the day one agenda items, whether it's executive orders or legislative issues that we can go and tackle. so this is another opportunity to start rallying support for some of these legislative items that we think will be quite popular. >> the president-elect seems to disagree with mitch mcconnell about whether burning an american flag is protected speech. do you know if he's heard from anyone today who's told him this is not a good thing to pursue? >> well, i'm not sure who all the president-elect has spoken with today on this particular issue, but i can speak on behalf

of the president-elect when i say that i, too, agree that this should be illegal. it's completely ridiculous. and you know who actually agrees with the president-elect would be hillary clinton. who as we know in 2005, introduced legacy that would make flag burning punishable by up to $100,000 fine and upwards of a year in prison. so this is something i think most americans oppose flag burning and think it's ridiculous. >> jason, i've got to jump in on this. there's obviously a difference of opinion among a lot of americans th s on this question. there's a court ruling that's right now in effect, 5-4 decision that says that flag burning is constitutional protected speech. but what mr. trump suggested in that tweet, that one of the punishments he would like to suggest is stripping people's citizenship from them, for which there's no constitutional precedent whatsoever. so what are we supposed to make of it when the president-elect suggests that someone who would violate a law that is protected constitutionally, but he's suggesting stripping people's

citizenship for them that right now is constitutionally protected speech. >> i think you should make of it that the president-elect is very passionate about this issue. he feels very strongly about the flag. >> but we're supposed to take that seriously? we're supposed to take seriously the notion that he thinks someone who is doing something that is constitutionally protected speech, should have their citizenship revoked? we should take that seriously? as a possible proposal? >> i think you should take his opposition to flag burning very seriously. the fact that he's raising this issue and we're having a debate over it is a good thing -- >> again, he's proposed a punishment. again, are we supposed to take that seriously or not? >> look, he made his opinion very clear. and he thinks that this should be illegal. there should be a very strong punishment for an offense like this. and again, we're talking about the american flag, where men and women have fought and died -- >> i want to be 100% clear about this. you're saying we should take him seriously. this is not just an expression of his passion. he is proposing the notion that people should have their

citizenship stripped if they partake in a currently constitutionally protected act? you're saying that's an actual proposal he's making and we should treat it as such. >> i'll let the president-elect's words speak for themselves, but he takes this very seriously. and i think most americans would agree this is completely out of bounds to burn around american flag and there should be very, very strong punishment for it. and even hillary clinton would agree with that. >> jason miller, i confess, i'm slightly frustrated, but we're delighted you came on. >> mark, i always love being on with crow. >> thank you, jason miller. when we come back, we're going to switch. it's no longer miller time, it's stein time. dr. jill stein of the green party will talk to us about the recount efforts underway in wisconsin and pennsylvania, right after this. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision.

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confirmation that elaine chao will be donald trump's

nomination. and now jill stein has filed for ballot recounts in wisconsin an parts of pennsylvania. stein also plans to request a recount in michigan tomorrow. and she has raised more than $6 million from 140,000 donors for this effort. dr. stein joining us now from boston. dr. stein, great to have you with us. paul ryan said that your recount effort is a ridiculous fundraising stunt, that is a quote. how do you respond to the speaker of the house? >> what are you afraid of? the american people have a right to vote. and we have a right to a transparent process and be assured that where votes machines are being used that are no longer being used in california because they are so prone to error and tampering, they are being eliminated in maryland and in virginia, we should have quality voting

systems in all of our states. and the american people kdeserv to have confidence in our vote especially coming out of this bitter election. let's have assurance that our votes are being counted securely and properly. >> there is not anyone who thinks that the recounts will change the outcome. so is this mainly an academic exercise? and i don't mean to belittle it, that you're trying to say this technology didn't work, this technology does work, to try to restore faith in the system or find places where there are holes in the system or is this really an effort to try to overturn the outcome of the election? >> so let me say it's not the an effort to overturn the outcome. this is not to help one candidate and hurt another. we had already declared we would do a recount in michigan before the winner was declared. so this is not about who won. it's really about the process and ensuring the american people at a time of record cynicism and

disappointment in our political system that we can be confident in our votes. and it's not just an academic question. let me say that we have seen plenty of trouble with voting machines when we've actually looked. we haven't often looked. but during the recounts in ohio, 90,000 votes that didn't get counted in toledo and the only reason we found out about that was because the people of toledo in the communities of are color felt like they were getting short shifted and sure enough 90,000 votes had not been counted because a machine wasn't properly calibrated. so just a little bit turned and it wasn't capable of seeing that those votes where a were actual on. so these questions have been raised for long enough. there are other red flags here which is that you had extremely

razor thin margins in these three states. we were using voting equipment that is suspect in one way or another. or there were other red flags like in michigan where there was a sky high number of blank votes, 80,000 blank votes which was much higher than in any prior election. so there were warning signs here. also the fact that the outcome was the opposite of what had been anticipated. so those factors taken together is why those three states were identified as the areas that we are most likely to find problems. and what we really want here is a voting system where we don't have to show that there was some real, you know, major problem in order to have built-in transparency and accountability in the system. and we say going forward we should have not -- for one thing, we shouldn't be using faulty perilous voting machines that have been proven to be

error-prone and friendly to tampering. we shouldn't be using those machines in the first place. and that secondly we should have built-in audits. >> dr. stein, i totally appreciate you coming on. i appreciate your commitment to people having confidence in the system, to making sure the machines operate safely. i've watched a ton of your interviews and i'm completely baffled by this. how will recounts in these three states achieve your goal of restoring people's confidence in the system? if you think about how it will play out, how could that possibly be the result? >> well, you're right, i mean, there are many concerns about the system. but this is a first step, it's also a very time critical step. >> but just tell me over the next few days, over the next few weeks, tell me the result that you would want to see that would restore people's faith in-kre him tally in the system. >> what i would love to see is that the system is working flawlessly. and that would be really great. based on the prior performance of these machines, i don't

expect that. on the other hand, i don't expect enough that we will overturn the results of the election. but i think that the issue has been raised and all i did was put out a press release and open up a web page where people could donate. and people chimed in from all over the country 140,000 donors at an average contribution of $45. you know, it's no secret that there is widespread cynicism and disappoint in our system. and i think what we're seeing here is a ground swell to say that we people can do better. >> dr. stein, sorry. we have to go. really appreciate you coming on. thank you so much. we'll be right back. when you have a cold, you just want powerful relief.

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and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon. thanks for watching. we'll see you tomorrow. and for now, we say sayonara. "hardball" starts now. tweet to tweet. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. throughout the campaign, whenever donald trump was down, he knew he could rally his base by saying or tweeting something proceed vvocativ provocative, something many would cause crazy. the campaign is over, but president-elect donald trump seems to bfo