8:00 p.m. eastern. let's hope we keep that rain away. >> yeah, let's hope so. that does it for us on this wednesday, i'm alex witt alongside ali velshi and louis burgdorf, and "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> i've had a wonderful evening with president-elect trump. we have another discussion about affairs throughout the world. these discussions i've had with him have been enlightening and interesting and engaging. i've enjoyed them very, very much. >> what did he say? what? >> got the look. >> straight out of central casting. >> with us on set, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. already chiming in. political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore and in dallas -- >> you know what they call nick? nick the knife.

he wields it. >> he cuts deep. >> and in dallas, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. all together with willie, joe and me on "morning joe" this morning. >> very scenic shot for mark halperin. that's one of the finest interstates i have ever seen in north america. >> there is so much in dallas. that's a good road. i've seen roads. that's a good road right there. it's interesting. "usa today" instead of engaging in outrage porn, it was fascinating. four lessons we've learned so far from trump. i'll go through these quickly. number one, we have a twitter president whether we like it or not. first social media president. loyalty has limits. christie, no. newt, no. huckabee, no.

bannon, reince. a mixed bag. banned billionaires. find that last commercial where i said i liked and everyone said i was a nazi because it talked about going against international bankers but they didn't use international bankers but it was, like, billionaires and system rigged. get that for us. quite a contrast between the two selections that he made last night or that he's going to make today and, four, he likes generals. what's your takeaway from that, nick? anything in particular there? >> it strikes me that he has billionaires and donors in his cabinet so far than any past president i can think of. if this would be an assault on the elites of the coast, they are doing well if personnel is policy. >> you talk about wall street and you have a goldman sachs guy here and a lot of billionaires. a lot of people with wall street connections.

that final ad that looked straight out of the playbook of steve bannon, which was just blaring a populist message about how wall street and goldman sachs and the eu and all these international organizations were weighing down the working man and woman, a lot of picks seem to be cutting against that message. that populist message. >> these are two friends of donald trump. you could literally imagine him during the campaign running negative ads against these two guys cherry picking off resumes and making them poster children for the anti-wall street populist message he ran on. there's a lot of ironies in this cabinet. these two guys are part of an economic team. not clear who the quarterback is going to be. if you look at what they've worked on and where they've worked, they've run afoul of some of the economic ideas donald trump talked about during the campaign. they are his friends and they are really rich and he values

those two things. >> our friend lloyd was in that commercial from goldman sachs. they are picking right from -- >> bannon worked at goldman. mitt romney, bane capital guy. not what you think of with populist. another interesting part is that both big democratic donors. there is some element of bringing in people who might otherwise oppose him. >> like donald trump. a huge democratic donor. >> i would be willing to bet a lot of money the most controversial pick is tom price. that will energize the democratic party. he's the one that wants to revamp social security a bit. if democrats are going to stand up in congress, they're going to stand up over him. >> i will say that i did have some relief in this crazy, wacky

political season. we returned to political norms where democrats were only accusing -- >> we are popping popcorn. you guys are jumping all over the place. >> we're not going by script. >> i'm going to just tell you that minuchin is his choice for secretary of treasury. worked his way to partner at goldman sachs before starting a hedge fund. by the way, a great opportunity for elizabeth warren to actually use her platform, her background and care for the american people to speak out.

in 2009, mnuchin renamed it one west. the bank carried out more than 36,000 foreclosures according to one nonprofit's estimates. mnuchin sold it. a lot of democrats have been fighting against and need to continue and that was the reason the consumer financial protection bureau was built. that's an important issue. >> democratic senator, ranking member of the finance committee stated given mr. mnuchin's history, i look forward to asking how his treasury department will work for those waiting for the economic recovery to show up in their communities. how is this going to go over on capitol hill? >> i think these guys will do just fine.

remains to be seen which nominees might get scrutiny from republicans and which one democrats will go over. i don't anticipate either of these guys, if the confirmation process is well run, i don't anticipate either of these guys having confirmation problems. the bigger question from a policy point of view is who will drive economic policy in this administration? we don't know who will be head of the national economic council. these guys are not people with experience in government in a way that leads you even with a bob ruben, i don't have a sense of what policies they're going to care about or whether they're going to drive policy. >> right now this is basically they're going to do trump's bidding because neither one of them have a history of driving policy and most of them contributed to the democratic party. the bigger problem maybe they get confirmed, nick, but donald trump and his success and failure depends on wisconsin, michigan, ohio, and pennsylvania. he's not president of the united states without those states. and yet the people that voted

for him in those states did not vote for goldman sachs treasury secretary and they didn't expect him to put a billionaire in charge of goldman sachs. certainly not the democratic billionaire. a lot of republicans that came out that voted for him. what's the political fallout of this? how much hay can democrats make out of this? >> it will be a tabloid for democrats to say here are his promises and rhetoric on the campaign trail and people that are malfactors of that same message that are appointed to his cabinet right and left. you can't have it both ways. it's not clear what policy he will drive. the problem here with trump is that he was vague on policy on the campaign trail so no one actually knows yet. >> no one chose. policy will come from the white house as mark pointed out. no head of council of economic

adviser named yet. and steve mnuchin smart guy. made a lot of money obviously. never run anything big. treasury is not unlike the state department. huge entrenched bureaucracies that have been there for years. >> the problem is if you're donald trump and i personally don't think he's going to do this, but if you're going to change republican economic policy over the past 35, 40 years, you need really smart people around you that are going to drive that message not only to the hill but also the american people. he does not have those people here. he does not have the people that are going to say i know you've been reading from milton friedman over the past 30, 40 years, we have to do more than that. he doesn't have it in these two people. mark it down just like i said back when barack obama got elected, he will never shutdown gitmo. mark it down here. i said it. in 2008, i said it will never

happen. with these picks, donald trump will never get through republican congress meaningful economic legislation that deviates from past republican economic policy. >> i would say that ross has worked with units on bailout on bank. he's advocated for some protectionist trade policies so ross is a wall street guy who is more in sync on paper. >> peter is a professor who is advising trump. he does have very different views than the old republican party. he may be the chief economic policy adviser in the white house according to some people i'm talking to, and he may drive this much more than these cabinet secretaries. there's another appointment coming today i'm told. todd ricketts, one of the owners of the cubs as deputy commerce secretary. interesting as we talk about

mitt romney because the ricketts family ran negative ads against trump. it appears that trump is going to give them a cabinet position. ricketts is a guy with not government experience but someone that's got standard republican views on economics and yet another senior job. >> you say that also about nikki haley who had contempt for donald trump during the south carolina primary. >> and mitt romney. throw them in there. >> what did he say? >> donald trump and mitt romney did meet last night for a second time. romney spoke to reporters after the dinner. here's some of what he said. >> i was also very impressed by the remarks he made on his victory night. by the way, it's not easy winning. i know that myself. he did something i tried to do and was unsuccessful in accomplishing. he won the general election. and he continues with a message of inclusion and bringing people together and his vision is something which obviously

connected with the american people in a very powerful way. i happen to think that america's best days are ahead of us. you'll see america continue to lead the world in this century and what i've seen through these discussions i've had with president-elect trump as well as what we've seen in his speech on the night of his victory as well as the people he's selected as part of this transition, all of those things combined give me increasing hope that president-elect trump is the very man that can lead us to that better future. >> looked pained having to make that statement. a nice dinner there in the trump hotel there. >> it's kind of like when king george was given a hot dog at the hyde park. >> frogs legs were on the menu. >> trump, reince priebus in the picture. romney's message when he came out was i called him a fraud and

phony and campaigned like my life depended on it against him for a year and made this big speech and went out of my way but i like what i've seen since he was elected. >> i can explain that. i think everybody is at this point or at least everybody who has a constructive part of their brain that cares about this country, you know, you campaign against him. we were -- i mean there were times i was very upset about things that happened during the campaign but in the beginning, everybody should try to help for it to succeed. not the media. people like mitt romney. he's doing the right thing. >> certainly republicans. >> think democrats ought to say we want to work with republicans as well and not just say no. >> democrats complained for eight years about the meeting that took place and mitch mcconnell and everybody trying to undercut barack obama from the beginning, they should -- if they want to be different, they want to be better, they should

do that. if they want to do the same thing they did, that's their business but they can't do both. they can't complain about it for eight years and do the exact thing. >> i saw nothing wrong with that. it was nice. >> the thing is that i think mitt romney is doing what ross said republicans need to do. if you were offended by him and didn't like what he did and what he said, you have two choices. stay away and leave him to his own devices and a group around him that will only feed into his worst instincts or go in there and try to influence him for the better. i tip my hat to mitt romney for doing that despite the fact that he's being hacked to little pieces because he's trying to help this country. >> it's achieved a great amount of publicity with kellyanne

conway going after him. mitt romney was disappointed twice. he wants this job, i think, and this job would be validation of his efforts to become president. it allows him to play a large role on the global scene. i think it would be a great appointment for donald trump. >> i still think it would be a great appointment. petraeus obviously impressed. you really have to think long and hard before you put a general at secretary of state. a general at nsa and a general at defense. >> and homeland security. >> and homeland security. >> i think the generals thing reflects that there's an instinctive reach for that authority but a dangerous precedence. you want civilians in control of the government and other good people in other institutions that can run these offices, mitt

romney included. >> the generals being spoken about, petraeus, general kelly, general mattis, they are different than george patton, donald trump's favorite general. mattis and kelly specifically and petraeus to a certain extent are scholar generals. they are fully invested in a whole lot of other aspects of life other than just the military. >> brilliant. just like we are scholar pundits. >> we've been called that. >> not what i was thinking of. >> what we said yesterday is if mitt romney takes this job, it would be a patriotic gesture. that's how he would look at it. stepping forward to put himself between donald trump and foreign policy of america and there's some reporting in "the washington post" that sort of backs that up and says he had friends e-mailing him right away saying you need to do this in the interest of the country. put behind you. we have donald trump as our president. we know you don't like that. he's there now. what can you do constructively? what can you do pro-actively to

help the country succeed. >> the owner of the celtics very close friend of romney's and knows donald trump. a great piece in "the washington post" about that today looking at part of it there on the screen. >> it is about patriotic duty. i think especially if you're a republican you can sit back and complain or get involved. i agree -- i'm saying that i'm not going to suggest that democrats have a patriotic duty to get involved in the campaign when a lot of people are deeply offended. i'm saying that we shouldn't knock anything that goes in there to try to make things better. >> no. i think there are legitimate concerns about some of the people who have been chosen in this transition. that's the great example of i think where folks on the left have been working hard putting things together like the consumer financial protection bureau and other efforts to try to protect it the middle class and the people who are left out

in the cold. that's a real conflict. that should be brought up. >> that and tom price. >> so you say tom price is against medicare? >> i think he's for privatizing medicare. he's not against medicare. that's going to be a fight. that's going to be when democrats are going to have to stand up or roll over. >> social security was the first step toward democrats winning in 2006. i can see it happening again. >> bush was an ideologue. trump is not. trump is not going to privatize medicare. let me say this. he's not going to try to privatize medicare because he'll remember what happened with bush. and it's just not -- he's been a democratic for most of his life. i don't see him falling on that sword. >> i think you're right. he personally and intellectually does not have a beef with entitlements. >> he said that in the campaign.

>> he's also for universal health care which most republicans don't say they're for. if you're going to replace the affordable care act, you have to replace it with something to meet the president-elect's wishes that involves universal coverage. that's up against tom price and paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. >> the republicans greatest challenge going back and forth about this yesterday that the republicans have the whole repeal thing down. they have for years. they just haven't put together an adequate replace option that would actually provide americans the same type of coverage you're getting on under obamacare but better. we all know -- all of us know people, republicans, democrats, independents, that are using obamacare now. >> 22 million people. it's a huge number. health care is expensive. there's no magic thing here. it cost money to cover these people. most of the gop plans on the

table cover fewer people or cost more for older, sicker people. right there. that's the trade. >> let's get to other news. three people are dead in tennessee after wildfires overtook the communities. overnight fatal tornadoes hit a stretch from mississippi to alabama. for more on all of this, let's bring in nbc meteorologist bill karins. bill? >> good morning, everyone. as far as the storms, i'll show you some of these pictures. two stories. fires 24 hours ago and then overnight we dealt with tornadoes. this is a map that shows 550 miles of the destruction from last night from louisiana to mississippi to areas of northern alabama and now into tennessee. three reports of fatalities in jackson county, alabama, that's extreme northeastern portions of the state and we also have seen numerous pictures of homes that have been destroyed in other areas. it does look like there were structures destroyed and four critical injuries from the tornado last night into this

morning. the severe weather threat continues into today. the map shows tornado watches until noon for new orleans, southern mississippi and until 11:00 a.m. through portions of central alabama and the northern portions of georgia. to the fires. we had the three fatalities. pictures dramatic of what occurred throughout the region there. we'll show you those images. this is the aftermath. we saw what it looked like as people were trying to escape this destruction. when you see what was left, a smoldering ruins there. 200 to 300 structures completely burned. that's from the pigeon ford area there and gatlinburg. some historic area did survive. some did not. we'll monitor the fires in that region. 15 large fires burning right now in the southern appalachians. i want to update radar. this is important. this is gatlinburg area. now we're watching heavy rain to the east. this is welcome news. we need to get this into the gatlinburg area. we expect an inch of rain that

that will help with firefighting efforts there. as far as severe weather will go today, there's about 10 million people at risk of severe weather today. we may get an isolated tornado or two down in southern portions of alabama or central georgia. wind damage is also going to be possible with some of these worst storms and the rainfall again 1 to 2 inches there. i want to tell you that visibility is poor this morning mid-atlantic region to the northeast and we expect airport delays into new england as the rain moves in. once again, we have three fatalities overnight from tornadoes in alabama. four people critically injured. and when we get daybreak, we'll show you pictures from last night's tornado outbreak. >> bill, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," chairman of the republican national committee and the incoming chief of staff to the trump white house reince priebus joins us. he was at last night's dinner with the president-elect and mitt romney. and also ahead, house democrats are set to vote this morning on whether congresswoman nancy pelosi will stay on as their leader. we'll bring in former governor

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>> the political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs as they flee to mexico, china and other countries all around the world. it's a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities. the only thing that can stop this corrupt machine is you. >> so, you know, that offended a lot of people during the campaign. they thought it was anti-semitic. i did not see that. i trust those who said it was. the thing i saw, howard dean, when i saw that talking about goldman sachs and the big banks and -- >> howard is here. >> howard dean.

i actually saw it and i tweeted immediately this will help republicans in the future in states like wisconsin, michigan, ohio, and pennsylvania. it will get working class voters out that don't trust wall street. they don't trust the international finance system that they feel has run them down. there you go. and it did. then this morning we look and it's steve mnuchin and wilbert ross and millionaires. >> i think he gets a pass for a while. i think the american people have been through two years of a horrible campaign. he can get away with a lot right now. i don't think he'll get -- same stuff with conflict of interest business. it needs to be aired. he's going to have to do something about it eventually. right now people say, okay, let's give this guy a chance to

put his cabinet together. you won't see anything about this. when it goes south for other reasons, this is going to be a big issue. i don't think it is now. >> does he have, from all you know, you know a little bit about wall street. does mnuchin has what it takes to calm the waters when the dow is down 20%? the buzz i've heard from wall street is he doesn't. >> that's a great question. i thought about this a lot. just over the years about what a treasury secretary needs to be. george w. bush had two secretaries who were very good business people and failed in the job who were outside wall street. it seems to me that the real job of the secretary is to calm the financial markets when there's a major problem and to bring some sort of reasonable approach. >> robert rubin. if robert rubin picked up the phone said calm down this is what's going to happen, whoever is running goldman sachs at the

time or jpmorgan are going to listen. >> now mnuchin is from that world. i don't know him. i heard he's not a heavy hitter that hank paulson was. you can say bad things about hank paulson but he was one of the people that kept the show together while the country and world was falling apart. so does he have that? not yet. let's see what happens when he gets there. >> hank paulson is that guy. in 2008, he could get the heads of the banks in the room and say -- >> and dimon says i'm not going to do it and hank paulson says, yes, you are. >> third goldman sachs secretary of the treasury in ten years. it's amazing when you think about it. >> by the way, willie and i have been on the record since 2007, if anybody at goldman sachs wants to hire us s, we are alwa available. >> i could be there by 8:00. >> cothere will be a trump

dominated populist nationalism. a more libertarian freedom caucus. bernie sanders, elizabeth warren progressive caucus. the trump/sanders era is going to create new opposition blocks filled with people who never thought they would be working together. there is a raging need for a movement that embraces economic dynamism. where it goes from there is anybody's guess. >> the problem is none of them are interested in politics. it's the first global generation. >> millennials. >> i call them the first globals because they are the first globals. they are libertarian

economically. >> they were all over bernie sanders. >> they were. that was great. >> and you. >> but look at the turnout. >> they rigged it for hillary and bernie never got a chance. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> that's what happened. read the e-mails. >> let's not recount that. >> let's not relitigate that. >> sorry. i'm not holding any grudges. >> thank you. >> i agree with howard, mark halperin. i know there's been this strain before where i know when we got there in '94 we would walk into a room and be shocked when we were sitting there with sort of the hard right wing guys and aclu and whether it was expanded wiretapping that we were fighting or mexican bailout we were fighting that was actually goldman sachs bailout, there were all these very interesting

crosscurrents which have been wiped away by the eight bush years and eight obama years but howard has a point, doesn't he? we're going to see a lot of interesting alliances moving forward. >> there's obviously a lot of focus now on the personalities and symbolism of these appointments. in the end, this administration will be judged and should be judged by do they create new jobs that pay well in the new economy? a lot of the people they're bringing in are old economy people. they are people who know about manufacturing, which has to be part of the mix for sure. the question is do they have these alliances that create health care opportunities that in a new way that republicans want to do? jobs that stay in this country or new jobs that get created. that's how they'll be judged and how they should be judged. and the question is when they come up against paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and the old ways republicans thought about the economy, do they find a way to compromise and does that include as it can and will democrats on things like infrastructure and

tax reform, which is where they're going to start. >> it's a great, great point, nick. everything outside of jobs and creating new jobs in the age of globalization, everything outside of that that we all chattered about, it was sound and fury signifying nothing. >> climate change matters a lot. >> i'm going back to the same four states. wisconsin, michigan, ohio, pennsylvania. you stand up and you deliver and you figure out how to start creating new jobs in our new economy or you lose, right? >> if he can do that in those four states, he'll be a two-term president. it's hard to bring factory jobs back to those states. not just outsourcing. the question is how do you bring

those jobs to the rust belt? >> it's very interesting. so trump announced the carrier plant is keeping jobs in the u.s. let's see what the price was. it's fascinating that he talked to -- he was watching an interview saying i voted for donald trump. why? because he said he would keep my job. if he does, i'll vote for him again. if he doesn't, i'll vote for somebody else. there's a lot of pence in this also. >> the governor of indiana helped wire this deal. 1,000 jobs staying that would have gone to mexico. that's a win. the question is, as nick says, do you said this precedent of i'm going bring jobs back to people in rust belt states because you can't bring them all back. it's just not the way the economy works. instead of saying i'm going

bring all 2,000 factory jobs back, you have to have something else you can say which is what tim ryan is trying to say in this fight against nancy pelosi which is that we can build a new economy in these places. there will be jobs. they may not be the jobs that were here for the last two generations. >> what about that fight right now? a challenge. leadership challenge. nancy pelosi and tim ryan. a guy from the heart of this region that we're all talking about, upper midwest, tim ryan. >> this ties into what we were talking about earlier with the new generation. our party and the country as a whole, the baby boomers have to get out of the way. that's my generation. i'm happy to advise. i don't think that we need to be in the forefront anymore. i love nancy pelosi. in my view the most effective speaker since tip o'neil. she's going to win this because she's done -- she's raised money. we need somebody from the next generation to be in charge of everything. not just on the democratic side but republican side to empower this very generation that we're

talking about that david brooks wrote about. >> let me ask you this, howard. i know nancy. i've worked with her. i love her. absolutely no problem telling my republican friends all along she's great. >> very effective. >> we worked on china issues together. she was a powerful speaker. knew how to control an unwieldy congress. if you look at the numbers and performance, democrats were riding high in 2008. in 2010 to 2016, they lost over 65 seats. they're at a lower standing now despite the explosion in 2008 of democratic seats than they were since 1928. what is the justification for her -- what does she say to the caucus i know that i've lost 68, 69 seats since i've been your speaker, but vote for me anyway. >> that's what tim ryan's campaign is going to be about but the truth is she knows every member. she's raised money for every member. she knows the process better

than anybody else. she's going to win this. but it is time for our generation to step back and teach what we can to the younger generation and put them in the seats of power. >> what about geographically. they keep telling me we need to go to break. what does it mean to have a speaker from youngstown and a speaker from san francisco? >> that's a very good point. that's the kind of thing that democrats are going to have to do. we're going to have to figure out a way to represent those states in the way we used to represent those states if we're going to come back. >> totally agree. >> we'll talk more later, president obama gave an interview to "rolling stone" where he says almost exactly what you're saying right now which is that we have to get out of the way and get into the grassroots and talk to people that elected donald trump. >> joe biden -- >> when we were at that bar -- >> came on the show in philadelphia and it wasn't just that bar. >> it was a great bar. >> remember that bar in philadelphia. >> remember when that thing

happened? >> alex? >> great bar. it was a great bar. anyway, the greatest bar ever. it was huge. okay. so anyway, joe biden said back in july, we have lost working class white voters. we have to do a better job to get them back. >> all right. howard dean, thank you. still ahead, donald trump's campaign pledge to bring ba back waterboarding. >> didn't he back off of that? mattis talked him out of it.

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general hayden standing by. >> a cliff-hanger on social

media. >> cliff-hanger tweet. he tweeted just a few minutes ago or moments ago. i'll be holding a major news conference in new york city with my children on december 15 to discuss the fact that i will be leaving my -- presumeably company. >> i'll be leaving my vast wealth to willie geist. >> fantastic. >> under budget. under time. >> after a quick break, we'll bring in general hayden and talk about north korea. it's interesting. george w. bush spoke about the threat of north korea last night and barack obama reportedly told donald trump in the transition meeting you can worry about the affordable care act or whatever you want to worry about but you're going to be thinking about and sweating out the details of north korea for the

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welcome back to "morning joe." the mystery has been solved. mark halperin reads the second part of the tweet. >> the second tweet says he's leaving his great businesses in total in order to fully locus on running the country in order to make america great again. in total is the key phrase here. does it mean he'll do something along the lines of what "the wall street journal" said. if he's leaving the business to the kids, that's going to present a lot of the nonblind trust challenges that people talked about. >> let me give you a clue. he's not going to leave the business to you or me. i think he'll probably leave it to the kids. with us now, former director of

the cia and nsa now principle of the chertoff group, retired general michael hayden. that's something that people will need to sort through for the next four years. general, george w. bush yesterday warning of north korea and what lies ahead. donald trump and barack obama talked. barack obama said north korea is the gravest threat you face over the next four years. how bad will things get in the course of the trump presidency? >> it's likely by the end of mr. trump's first term, they will reach seattle with a nuclear weapon onboard. now, will it be effective? what odds are you willing to

deal with with pyongyang. >> it's that northwest corner. just because of ranges of the missiles and how far they have to go. >> if they can do that if four years, imagine what they can do in eight. >> over four administrations now we tried to put the brakes on the north korea program. >> why can't we do it? >> they believe and probably correctly that they will not survive without being a nuclear power. >> why can't we put sufficient pressure on china and say you take care of this problem or we're going to have to because this doesn't involve just your sphere of influence. this involves seattle, washington. >> i think the chinese see the intellectual merit and argument you just gave but they are so frightened of what they might suffer should we go through a dramatic increase of pressure on the north koreans and regime cracks, refugees flow into china and create a pro-america korea

and now you have this country on its borders. the way i describe it, china knows this is a problem. it's a toothache. it's a bad toothache. they rather not go to the dentist and have it fixed because going to the dentist will entail pain they don't suffer yet. their policy is wrong too. >> it sounds like the trump administration has no choice if it wants to stop a mad tyrant from being able to deliver a nuclear weapon to seattle. they're going to have to figure out a way to get the international community to go in and remove the leadership. >> here's how i preface that within five years they'll reach seattle. consistent with our current definition of acceptable risk, that's what's going to happen. now the question becomes what's our definition of acceptable risk? do we want to change that? you can break right. be tougher on north koreans. you know current secretary of state and bill perry, one of his predecessors, wrote an article

ten years ago saying if they show a missile launch pad, we should destroy it. these are serious people. you have option of breaking right and doing some things covertly that break the hold of the regime on the population. that's very dangerous. >> we tried that in syria. it did not turn out very well, did it? >> you break left. change your definition of risk. here your risk is accepting north korea as a nuclear power. >> we've tried that, general. jimmy carter was sent over by bill clinton. it was disastrous. >> they want us to stop our hostile policies towards them before we get to normal relations. i think the subparagraph in hostile policy box are going to be even more offensive to us than the breaking right box. >> what are hostile policies that they refer to? >> presence of american forces there. our policy toward that part of the world in general. all right. they want to be accepted as a nuclear power. they want to keep the weapons. they want a peace treaty with us

and not the puppet regime in seoul. pretty much entails us throwing our true allies on the peninsula overboard on behalf of these folks. >> is there anything approaching a normal negotiation? >> i have negotiated with the north koreans. i've negotiated with them in geneva. willie, they live in an alternative universe. the cognitive dissidence that has to go on in the mind of the north korean negotiator to say some of the things they say is astonishing. >> no normal negotiation. >> it is really hard. one other option i'll give you. that is, you know, you have to do what you got to go do. after the last missile test, we put their defense system in

south korea and drove chinese crazy. there are a lot of you have to do what you have to do. how about putting our weapons back into south korea. how about giving it to the japanese. how about nuclear capable ships showing up more frequently. all we need to say is it's not about you. it's about these guys. sorry it's affecting you. it's about these guys. and maybe that kind of action begins to impress on the chinese that that toothache is getting bad. >> we have the same option. that's a great option. we had the same option as far as russian aggressions in ukraine send more troops to poland. okay. we'll match everything you do in ukraine. we're going to match with defensive move into poland which would embarrass putin at home. >> the current policy is called strategic patience which was

leave this alone. frankly, there's some merit to that because north korean policy looks like it's written on the bottom of a shampoo bottle which is provoke, accept concessions, repeat. and what the current administration was trying to do is don't let them provoke you. otherwise you have to make these concessions to get out of the box. >> secretary of state in the incoming administration is a big job. >> it really is. mike, of all of the things out there that will go bump earliest, i'm nearly certain it's the north koreans because their policy is provoke in order to get attention and then demand concessions. >> who do you want there as secretary of state given north korea? options are bob corker, general petraeus and mitt romney. >> i don't know bob corker. i thought mitt romney would be president so i think he could handle the job well. david petraeus, also a good choice. you know, in the last ten years, he was doing more diplomacy than

coordinating fire and movement forces. petraeus was. >> he knows this. >> he's not an east asia hand. he spent most of his time elsewhere, but he does have a strong track record. >> general michael hayden, great to have you on the show. thank you so much. we'll be right back with up to the minute reporting on the trump transition. reince priebus will be our best. "morning joe" is back in a moment.it ...what am i doing? you're searching!! oh, that's right! here i come!!! ohhh. i bet someone is hiding in that house... ouch!!! ohhh. oh, i bet someone is hiding in that...ahhh!!! oh, dory, are you okay? oh, let's cover that, it'll get better quicker. wait, what were we doing? hide and seek. oh, that's right. ready or not, here i come! guys, i'm still hiding! for all of life's mishaps, band-aid brand's got you covered. and bring home disney pixar's finding dory, today!

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>> i have to tell you that i've been impressed with what i've seen in the transition effort. >> my goodness. i remember that place. top of the hour. >> can we show the video. this is very funny yesterday. >> it was a very awkward moment at trump tower. >> don't want to make an issue. >> i run around the back. >> mika goes around the back. i'm calling her. get me out of here. it's the press scrum. okay. >> set up like a red carpet these days. >> anne thompson is yelling at

her. why are you going? she keeps pressing the button. >> can i get in this elevator. where is it? i'm trying to get in the thing. get me out of here. >> and then corey shows up. >> great. that's good. are you going to come in this elevator with me? i ran into reince. he's going to be on this morning. it all ends well. with us, we have political writer for -- >> pressing the elevator button and it won't open up. >> that's not the back door and then there was a tweet storm. >> why was mika there? >> nothing mysterious. >> they're going to offer her secretary of state position. >> just wanted a taco bowl, right? >> everyone was nice. >> they have the best taco bowls in the world. >> ivanka wants to do some great

things. >> what's that on your head? look at that. >> of course i do. >> by the way, the rogue 1 trailer so good. >> hold on. does that not look awesome? >> so good. i'm very excited to see this movie. >> i tell you, what they have done, what they have done with this "star wars" franchise since they have changed george lucas to a radiator in silicon valley has been extraordinary. banned him from writing anymore lines. >> unbelievable that anyone would spend time doing that. >> have you seen the highlights for "rogue 1." >> no.

>> "star wars." >> seven of these things? >> seven? there are seven? >> empire strikes back. >> what's number two? >> i think you have to go with seven. >> i think it goes strikes back, first one and then come in with seven. >> strikes back -- >> i have a soft spot for jedi. >> it's gone on way too long. there are people that don't like "star wars" and think it's a complete waste of time and walked out of the first one. >> we need to see "rogue 1" together. >> the force is strong. >> jeremy peters. looks nice this morning. >> "star wars" fan or not? >> more of an "indiana jones"

guy. sorry. >> that's not mutually exclusive. >> "raiders of the lost ark" finest summer movie ever. >> nick and i used to live together many years ago when we were both reporters in albany. he is a huge fanatic of the science fiction movies and we could never agree on what to watch at night because he would want to watch "star wars" things that made my eyes glaze over. >> are you a "matrix" fan? i love the "matrix." >> this makes me mad. >> so cool. it's awesome. >> eddie glaude, princeton guy. >> what was your favorite "matr "matrix"? >> the first one. >> another mechanical stupid

movie? >> greatest. >> fantastic. >> half of your statement is great. >> i'm going to now do the news since five minutes of we can never get them back. think about that. never get these five minutes back. this morning donald trump is up and tweeting. >> mrs. anderson, go ahead. >> i'll hold a major news conference in new york city with my children in order to discuss the fact that i will be leaving my business in total in order to fully focus on running the country in order to make america great again. the presidency is a far more important task. mark halperin, does it take care of his problem? >> big unanswered question which tweets don't address, he's

giving up an operational role but is he giving up his full financial interest in the business and if kids are still running the business, and particularly if they are running the business and continuing to advise him and sit in on white house meetings, that presents a conflict that a lot of people are concerned about. there's nothing in the tweets that suggests he's not going to address the problems, but they don't speak specifically to liquidation and is he getting out of not just the operational role but out of ownership as well. >> what does he have to do to move beyond the questions that would be raised every single day over the next four years? this is a first step in that direction. how far does he need to go? >> he can keep us in business forever if he wants by not doing anything or take his equity and invest in other equities and put that in a true blind trust or middle ground is to appoint an independent monitor to oversee his companies and hang around and have access to it and report back to the public. >> remember, he doesn't believe

he has to do this. he said last week that i don't have to do any of this. i'm exempt from these conflict of interests as president of the united states. he thinks just by doing this, by saying i'm not connected, he's doing something above and beyond what's required. it's hard to see him taking the next step and making it a blind trust. he lets his kids run it but that doesn't remove the conflict of interest questions that people will continue to have. >> congress obviously has layers and layers and layers of laws and rules and ethical guidelines on what you can and cannot do. and there are very bright lines. you better not cross them or else you could go to jail. this trump election has shocked me in that none of those rules apply to the president of the united states. there are no rules that apply to the president of the united

states on this front, which is shocking to me. >> it is. it's shocking in terms of -- >> by the way, is that correct? did i state that correct? >> there are bribery laws. >> there are sweeping areas where nothing applies. >> ban on gifts. >> that's in the constitution. >> and it's not only shocking in the way you just described, it's also shocking in the uneven expression of horror at the potential of conflict of interest. thinking about this situation with trump and his businesses and thinking about the clinton charity foundation and what that would have brought and all of what it would mean and this would generate all sorts of investigations and here we are in this moment with clear questions around conflict of interest and the relevant actors aren't kind of throwing up red flags about what this means from the congressional side.

>> they don't know yet what they're going to do. >> the thing is, again, i guess the question is how do you put limits -- you're not going to apply them to donald trump but this election taught us something. there's a gaping hole in government ethics regarding the president of the united states. since congress can't pass those laws on the president because of separation of powers -- >> obama does this voluntarily in a blind trust so you have to trust in the president to do the right thing here. now, if he wants to keep investigative reporters in business for eight years, great. okay. if he wants to avoid that and avoid the actual conflicts that are going to happen here, he has to go more radical. >> again, fixing this gap in

america's ethics laws moving forward beyond trump because you can't apply it retroactively to the president coming in, i guess maybe you would have to pass a constitutional amendment that would bind the president of the united states, future presidents, to the same sort of code of ethics that congress has to adhere to. >> you would. of course there's all sorts of double standards. congress exempts itself from freedom of information act. i'm concerned about here and now with trump. white house counsel will have to play a big role. media will have to play a big role. the big question is what will republicans in congress do? will they defer to the president of their own party since they're in the majority or will they have hearings about this and demand accountability on the part of the president because there's never been someone as president with these assets. he doesn't play by the same rules. he plays by trump rules. >> now cnbc is confirming this

morning that wilbert ross will be nominated for commerce secretary. that's confirmed now. mnuchin was trump's finance chairman during the campaign worked his way to partner at goldman sachs before starting a hedge fund and later financing major motion pictures. mnuchin's time running a southern california mortgage lender could become a hurdle in his confirmation hearings. back in 2009, he and other financiers purchased indymac renaming it one west, the bank carried out more than 36,000 foreclosures according to one nonprofit's estimate. mnuchin sold it for a big gain last year according to bloomberg. >> it's kind of exciting if you think about it, the winds of change that are sweeping through washington in 2016 and this year because think about this.

because under clinton, you had a treasury secretary that -- under bush, you had a treasury secretary that was a goldman sachs alum. under obama, you had a treasury secretary that was a goldman sachs alum but under trump, under trump, there is going to be change because we're going to have a treasury secretary this time who is from goldman sachs. >> but a president not beholden to -- >> is there only one country in america capable of producing -- >> that seems to be the case. policy is personnel. we're beginning to see that the candidate that was supposed to be the candidate of change seems at least by appearances to be business as usual on the economic front and this is where david's op-ed was spot on. spot on. >> i want to circle back to you. during the campaign you were so

frustrated. you had hillary clinton who you thought was -- >> people were not nice to you. >> hillary clinton by wall street. republicans owned by wall street and for progressive americans, this is just one more piece of evidence that the more things change, the more they stay the same. wall street runs washington. >> wale street runs washingtol . i went back to walt whitman's p publication in 1971 never was there more hallowness at heart than in present. genuine belief seems to have left us. here he's talking in the moment at this fracturing and here we are in this moment where you have genuine fear on the part of

people. you have folks who are claiming change who are in fact seemingly agents of greed and how can i put this? every day ordinary people catching hell. wisconsin, michigan, ohio, pennsylvania. how do you reach out to those states and make good on your promise if you hire insiders and then fight republican leaders that want to do the same thing for the next 30 years they've been doing economically for the last 30 years. >> you cut a deal like trump did with carrier with the help of indiana governor mike pence to keep 1,000 jobs there. you deliver on that promise. can he continue to do that? i don't know. to your point, these are billionaires from wall street. these are billionaires from

hedge funds. donald trump's platform was it's outrageous that hedge funds get these tax breaks. that's outrageous. we have to break up the big banks. we have to break these people up. if you're a populist who thought he would fight for you, you could be waondering who the people are that will make policy that affects you. >> let's ask. incoming chief of staff to the trump white house reince priebus. good to see you yesterday. thanks for being on this morning. >> happy to be on. >> are we going to have more of the same wall street running washington? how is this administration going to do what it set out to do, which was work for the little guy for the people left out in the cold by a rigged system? >> well, first of all, all of the people that president-elect trump is bringing in all have his same mindset and his same goals, and that's what we're going to work together to try to do. it all starts at the top. it starts with donald trump and

president trump and his willingness to get on the phone and cut deals and call people out and say you're not leaving to mexico. you're staying here. i think you two know more than anyone that he doesn't sit around and wait for a scheduled phone call for 4:45 for five minutes to talk to the head of u.t. he says put him on the phone. i want to talk to him. that's what he does. that's not typical of a president-elect. i think that's what's so fresh about donald trump. >> so, reince, let me ask you. you know wisconsin as well as anybody politically. you understand donald trump was the first republican to win there since 1984 and that was a pretty remarkable thing but he did it by talking about how he would change washington and be more populist than our party has been in the past. do you think he can do that? do you think he can push real reforms through a republican congress that may be fighting back when you have people like steve mnuchin and other people

that are creatures of wall street? >> steve is going to be lockstep with the vision of donald trump and mike pence. they wouldn't be offered a position if they didn't follow suit with the exact things that president trump wanted. steve mnuchin was part of writing that hundred-day plan and that speech that donald trump gave a few weeks ago about what the first 100 days would be like. so as far as wisconsin and winning wisconsin, i think it all again goes back to president trump. people in this country can debate ideology all day long but i found people in america were just starving for something real and authentic and genuine. people were tired of the washington, d.c. people. that's what donald trump brought. that's why he swept the midwest. people are starving for real. that's what he brings. >> we'll have david on with "the new york times" who wrote great op-ed earlier this week saying donald trump can break from the

republican past or he can be big marco saying supersize the economic policies of people like marco rubio and others have promoted for 30 years. can you think of a particular policy that working class voters in wisconsin are going to take heart in to say, wait a second, this is a new kind of republican. this is not a guy who is going to bow and scrape to wall street? can you think of a policy right now? >> sure. i can think of trade policies. i can think of reformulating nafta. we can create fair trade and making sure that the chinese don't take advantage of us and making sure the mexican government doesn't take advantage of our businesses and that reaching out to those businesses and telling people that before you leave these workers out in the cold like what happened to our town in kenosha, wisconsin, and paul ryan's town in janesville, wisconsin, when everything left and everything fell apart that

we'll have a president that's willing to pick up the phone and say not so fast. we're looking out for people going to work every day, and we don't care about republican or democrat. we care about the american worker. that's number one. number two, lowering taxes for everyone. whether you're in a 20% bracket or 15% bracket or up in the 29 or 28, whatever it is, lowering those taxes is going to be important. and the last thing is obamacare and health care. obviously we have to repeal obamacare at least for the most part but we have to replace it with something that's more competitive at a lower cost. those are all things that are going to be important to people in wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania in order to take our country back and so i think those are the things that people are looking for. who will be the fighter for the american worker and that's going to be donald trump. >> chairman, it's willie. good to see you this morning. donald trump making news within the last hour tweeting out that he will be leaving as he called his great businesses in total

and in no way wants conflict with various businesses. he said he's drafting papers that will "take me completely out of business operations." who will run his companies once that process is complete? >> that will all be worked out. what you all need to see and american people need to see is that we've got a president-elect taking this very seriously. this is the first president we've had at least in modern history that's had so many successful businesses and so many diverse areas across the country and in many cases retail and hospitality business that is dependent on people's business. it's not the easiest thing to work out. you should know that he has the best people in america working on it. i think what you see in those tweets is a person at the top that understands and is willing and showing the american people that he's working hard on it and taking it seriously to make sure we comply with all of the rules and laws and regulations that are in place even though those

rules and regulations don't contemplate a situation like this. >> it's a big deal what he does with the businesses. it's one thing to put it into a blind trust and be disconnected from it but an entirely different thing to turn it over toive ivanka trump or donald jr. do you think he'll turn it over to the family or put it into a blind trust? >> i'm not ready to reveal any of that, willie. here's the thing. he was elected by the american people with all of this knowledge in mind. there's nothing to be ashamed of. this is something that in fact was celebrated by the american people. we wanted someone who understood business. >> i don't think he should be ashamed but it's important what happens next. >> nothing different today than there was three weeks ago. people in this country knew and accepted and celebrated this business that donald trump has built through his entire life.

now we're working on making sure that all of those conflicts are taken care of and doing the best job we can given the fact that the laws actually are very vague and don't contemplate this scenario but we're doing the best we can for the american people. >> you're confident he'll separate himself from the businesses enough that the american public will not see conflict of interest between white house policy and policies of his businesses? >> that's right. that's what we're working toward. you're right. >> reince, just back to the american factor. i'm curious. do you know what's going to happen with the consumer finance protection bureau created by elizabeth warren to prevent americans from being ripped off by big business, wall street, major mortgage companies. i mean, this is something that's in sync with his message and an important construct but put together by the previous administration. >> we'll get to that soon. we're working through major

cabinet positions now. a second wave of reviews that we need to do, deputy secretary levels, ambassadors, consumer protection, all of these things that you're talking about. there's no -- i would just say this. there's no preconceived position that -- we're not taking some party line position on every single issue across the board. he wants to look out for the american consumer. he doesn't want people being taken advantage of and he wants to make sure that everyone in america is protected, and i think you're going to see that same person you saw on the campaign trail continue through the white house. over time, i think you'll see that he'll continue to be the champion of the american worker. >> let me ask you, reince. mr. chairman, mr. chief of staff, how does a kid from kenosha exactly eat frog legs? just curious. >> i didn't eat any frog legs.

i didn't go for that. listen, i tried them in the past. i didn't go for the frog legs. >> okay. how did other than that, how did the dinner go with mitt romney? >> it went very well. obviously there's a lot of respect for each other and i think the relationship has built over time. they've talked many times on the phone. we had a good meeting. last night was a lot of fun. they talked a lot about foreign policy but they also talked about the new england patriots and tom brady and we talked about sports and we had a good time. there was a lot of laughs in the room. >> would you say that donald trump and mitt romney have a comfort level personally that would allow him to hold a position in theed ed administra? >> i think it's getting to that point. i would just caution that i don't think anything is imminent

at this point. certainly what people need to see is president-elect trump saying i'm nsay ing i'm going to talk the best possible people in america and talk to rudy giuliani and david petraeus and senator corker, mitt romney, and many others. so i just think it should be encouraging to people that we have a president that's willing to say, look, i don't really care about the past. i want to make sure the best decisions are made for the american people. >> reince priebus, thank you very much. thanks for being on the show this morning. >> thanks, chairman. >> i bet he had the frog legs. he didn't want them to know in kenosha. >> he doesn't look like a frog leg guy. >> how can go to a packers game knowing that you had frog legs. >> reince, can you see that menu where you are? isn't that what they happened out when you go into lambeau field? >> that along with cheese curds

and brats and miller lite. >> i wouldn't be allowed back in kenosha if i ate the frog legs. >> hallie jackson will join us with the latest on the trump transition. we'll be right back. it's time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. seriously, think of all the things you buy. great...is this why you asked me to coffee? well yeah... but also to catch-up. what's in your wallet? they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary,

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male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. >> everything that has a beginning has an end. >> stupid movies. such a waste of money and waste of time. you can never get those hours back. >> what movie is this? >> who cares. >> mr. anderson, wait, what am i saying? oracle had gotten inside mr. anderson. it tricked mr. anderson. >> i don't even know. >> do i dare admit what i'm about to admit? i've never seen "the matrix."

i'm going to duck after i say it. >> hallie and i have never seen "the matrix." >> i know the premise. >> you have to at least see the first one if for no other reason at the end of it, right, when he pushes back, chills thinking about rage coming in. picks up the phone. rage against the machine. wake up. one of the coolest moments. >> let me help you out here. with all of the discussion at the intersection of government and the wealthy, nick, you ha explore the question what can governments do to prevent rich people from hiding their money. wealthy individuals hide money offshore and you write in part

this. darkness shields the tax adverse businessman and criminal alike. dictators use offshore system to loot their own countries, drug lords use it to launder money. as a university of california economist and an offshore expert puts it, they use the same banks. they use the same incorporation agents to create shell companies. send money in the same ways but when the wall of secrecy is breached, the distinction between upright global citizen and criminal can quickly grow indistinct. really? who are we talking about here, nick? >> how do we find out where the money is hidden? >> it tells the story of two divorce lawyers who had to find where her husband had hidden a family fortune from his wife and did it in a maze of offshore finance which holds a fifth of all of the world's financial assets off the books. a fifth. >> how much of that is american

money? >> who ows? it's a black hole. >> how do we know it's a fifth? >> estimate is based on what's missing when you look at outflows and inflows from banks and ledgers that are on the books. you can see money going out but not coming in. it's the caymans. hong kong. offshore world that protects wealthy and corporations to hide their money and hide themselves. kind of a stateless world. >> why would they want to hide their money? >> mostly to avoid taxes and conflicts of interest that we've talked about because if you have conflicts hidden in trusts and offshore shell companies, you can't see them. they're invisible. this is part of the story of global inequality. because money is submitting offshore, it masks how bad the inequality actually is because it compounds tax free offshore

and makes inequality worse. an important story about how global finance works for the elite and hurts everyone else. >> must have taken months to put together? >> it was a year and a half in the making. >> he had eight weekends he had to spend in the cayman islands. >> people we know? nefarious entities? >> people who use this -- >> it's tax avoidance. >> tax avoidance versus tax evasion is an important distinction. it comes down to how much the irs is willing to invest to prove it was tax evasion. >> how do divorce lawyers track down the money? >> they had a divorce case. they also realize that the wife partly owned some of the companies of the family, and they filed parallel civil lawsuits alleging there was

fraudulent conveyances and money was drained out of the american companies and moved to parallel companies offshore. >> how do they trace it? >> they got subpoenaed and depositions and got pieces of the puzzle over a course of a year and a half, bank statements, net worth statements and they slowly put it together. it's a mystery story. it's a puzzle. treasure hunt. they found it over time. >> how does the irs get into it? do they have teams of people? >> they have a global wealth squad that focuses on those kind of individuals. they can handle about 200 cases a year. they are very hard to win. very complex. one solution is to throw more resources at trying to get these high end tax evaders. >> are they avoiders or avoiders and what's the difference? >> as you explained, it's not just corporate. this is personal wealth.

these are estates pushed offshore. >> at the high end personal and corporate wealth are often the same thing. if you are a businessman, your wealth sits in those companies. if you can move your profits to low tax jurisdictions and you can move your obligations and debts to high tax jurisdictions, you can save a lot of money. apple does it. so do all of these people you never heard of. >> hallie jackson is here. she does not do that. as far as we know. she's not eaten frog legs. >> nor have i seen "the matrix." a lot of revelations today. >> an empty, sad life. you need to do all of those things today. new picks this morning at treasury and commerce. what are you hearing out of the transition? >> obviously steven

mnuchin-minumnuchin, mnuchin spent a lot of time raising money for trump. he was rumored to be the guy that would get treasury. speculations for weeks now. this is confirmation of it. he was on cnbc this morning confirming that as well. as was wilbur ross talking about the fact that they do accept the nomination or would accept the nomination and are moving forward with this. an investor in trump tower yesterday. he walks out with a camo make america great again hat. they asked him about it and he grinned. you have elaine chao. interesting pick. came over from taiwan when she was a kid. first asian american woman in a cabinet. served under george bush and married to mitch mcconnell. he hears a rumor. outstanding appointment. and then the other interesting point is that donald trump met with 70 plus people through this

transition. not just potential picks but people coming in for counsel like dan quayle. some members of the press didn't recognize him and neither did some members of the public. he walked in with kellyanne conway and asked for a selfie but only with kellyanne. >> how could you not recognize him? >> jeremy, what do those two cabinet picks -- how do they line up with the campaign that you followed for donald trump and do you think there's a massive disconnect from the commercials trump was running and things he was saying on the campaign stump and these two billionaires he selected yesterday? >> i don't know, joe, if draining the swamp in the minds of swamp supporters including appointing the senate majority leader's to a post. not to disparage her credentials but he is pulled in different

directions. for every billionaire donor you appoint to your cabinet and every senate majority leader's wife, the grassroots conservatives are getting more and more restless. i think trump at some point is going to have to throw them a bone. i do wonder what all of these establishment appointments mean in the context of a potential romney appointment and whether or not he's really going to get it. >> jeremy, isn't it fascinating that as washington, official washington breathes sort of a sigh of relief that this is going to be somebody that keeps it inside the lines when it comes to appointments, there's of course the concern that the base gets restless. >> that's exactly right. you just had the former republican -- i guess he's the republican party chairman, of coursing white house chief of staff on the show. there were a lot of conservative

grassroots talk radio types outraged over that. i think donald trump has a short runway here. he's got to please both camps. he's already signaled to the establishment you're with us. he's tried to heal the wounds of this divisive republican party but he's upsetting grassroots and ripping the party apart. enough to give him some trouble, i think. >> number one, his supporters, many of them on the campaign trail backed him and number two quick trivia nugget. do you know who else has been married to the leader? >> thank you all. i'm sorry. still ahead -- >> go down your checklist today. hide a billion dollars, eat frog

legs and watch "matrix." >> we take look at how obama's presidency has impacted the current climate of race relations in america. that's ahead.

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he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. joining us now, democratic strategist and pollster, cornell belcher. his new book, "a blackman in the white house, pa rack obama and the triggering of america's racial aversion crisis."

cornell, you argue that we are not living in a post racial society in america but, rather, we're at a tipping point and that trump's victory was the result of an inevitable backlash to the obama presidency. that's -- i don't want to say -- that's just -- that's strong. >> strong. by the way, you have a strong thesis for your book. >> that's strong. >> wow. >> that's your argument. barack obama is popular as he's ever been. >> yeah. >> >> by the way, do you really think for a second if barack obama ran for the third time he wouldn't have gotten elected? >> no, he wouldn't have gotten elected by the same electorate that donald trump got elected. >> do you believe america would have elected a blackman for the third time? >> he got elected because of, quite frankly, what's causing this backlash. barack obama was the first president ever in our history to

win back to back majorities while losing the vast majority of voters. he got 38% of the white vote last time. he's not president because white voters started voting for him. he won because in 2008 we said we're going to expand the electorate. in 2008 most of them were new voters. >> didn't he win because a lot of voters who voted for barack obama switched to donald trump? >> i hear people saying that. >> the new york time -- >> trump obama voters. here's, in fact, the problem. you know, my report that was leaked to the "new york times" before the election, a lot of the millennials. she had to carry the obama coalition. a lot of the millennials third party voted. if you look at the under 30

voters, they're third party voting, you see the margin of difference between where she ran versus where barack obama won. >> this is what i was going to ask you. >> we're winning election by inches. >> was this election more about donald trump who everybody talked about or was it about hillary clinton? was it a referendum on donald trump or was it a referendum on hillary clinton? did hillary clinton lose not because of what donald trump did or because of who she did not energize? >> i don't like to play quarterback because i worked on campaigns. what i will say is when you look at statistically, it's not like donald trump ruled the republican. statistically he's gotten what basically mitt romney had. it should not be a winning margin in the future. >> so you're saying yes. >> i don't know if he'll say it out loud. if this was about hillary clinton more than donald trump? >> she was a candidate that in

the end -- look, 30 years of negative, you know, does have an impact but when you look at in the end, folks, the millennial and younger votes so critical to barack obama. they didn't want to make the choice of the lesser of two evils. especially when you look at the hispanic, young african-american voters. when you look at them and say seven or eight of them voted third party, they protested their vote. they were not happy with either choice. they're going to protest their vote. i'm upset with them because of this because i'm here and you're here because our great grandparents made really sophisticated political choices. i want to be pure. i want them to philosophically be pure but we got here because of some really sophisticated political choices, not win-win situations. when you look at the existential threat i would argue that donald trump is to communities of color particularly when you're making

appointments like sessions as attorney general, they should have been more sophisticated. they should have said, no, we're not going to protest third party votes. we are going to vote for the lesser of two evils. >> we didn't win florida by 3 or 4 percentage points. we won ohio and florida by a narrow margin. she didn't reach those margins. >> that was a really long way of saying yes. >> but he said it very well. >> but my main point is when you look at the data, barack obama was to a certain degree a rallying point for a lot of people who were uncomfortable with the demographic changes. demographics are destiny. we are not becoming a whiter country. as we become browner we're going to have to solve for this rise in the racial aversion. in my data in my book i show -- >> we're going to have to stop being the assumptions that just because a lot of voters go out, are people of color?

>> right. >> which is a mistake everybody made the day before the election. look at all of the hispanics that went out in florida. hillary is going to win. all of those hispanics were going to vote for hillary. it didn't happen that way. >> the democratic party has relied a lot on people of color to over index in order to win. you know, this electorate was 2% browner than -- >> they've got to fight for -- >> but at the same time when you look at the infrastructure of the democratic party and infrastructure of the progressive community, where are people of color who have budgetary authority, where are people of color who are making creative decisions about the messaging. we need to bring more heat to the younger people. we never got the funding. >> what's the lesson for the next presidential election? what i see is a lot of democrats saying we need to be more progressive in our argument. we need to have elizabeth warren out in front, maybe bernie sanders would have been a better choice. keith ellison at the head of the

dnc. do you think that's the way to go? >> there's an interesting debate going on in the democratic party. we have to win more blue collar white voters. yeah, we should win more blue color white voters. the truth of the matter is we haven't been winning them for a long time. the question becomes this, do you -- you're already getting 8% of the resources chasing these resources. do you double down and see them shrinking chasing a resistant marketplace or do you spend more of your resources chasing a growing, less resistant marketplace which is a younger, more browner version of america? barack obama won back-to-back ma jortsz, 51%, while only garnering 40% of the white vote. >> let me push this question around the blue collar white voter because there's a number of ways in which folks are appealing to that voter as the reason for the failure of the democratic party and the success of donald trump. what do you think is the

difference between the white working class voter and the working class voter of color? >> that's like a stick you're poking me. you know, the problem with the 20th center is the problem with the color line. you know this well. the poor white after reconstruction was just as worse off as the poor black, in many ways worse, but they gave him jim crow and segregation, right? i think you still see some of that. it's the tribalism that's the problem. at some point my point is you can't continue to go on this heightened tribal path. we have to come together in order to compete and win the future. when almost half our country in the next half century is going to be brown, we can't keep fighting each other this way because the specific way they are preparing their children to compete and we are fighting the same ghost. >> the book is "a blackman in the white house and the triggers of america's racial aversion

crisis." cornell belcher, thank you very much. >> thank you, cornell. >> welcome back. >> you know what, joe, the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. i've had a wonderful evening with president-elect trump. we had another discussion about affairs throughout the world and these discussions i've had with him have been enlightening and interesting and engaging. i've enjoyed them very, very much. welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, november 30th. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. out west. time to get up. we have veteran column nist mike barnacle. political writer for the "new york times," nick. >> nick the knife. >> he cuts deep. managing editor of bloomberg

politics, mark halpern in dallas. >> "usa today" instead of engaging in outrage, it was fascinating. they support lessons we've learned from donald trump. >> number one, we have a twitter president whether we like it or not. the first social media president. >> okay. >> loyalty has limits. i thought this was fascinating. no christie, huckabee, bannon, reince, three banned billionaires. find that last commercial where the commercial that i said i liked and everybody said i was a nazi because it talked about going against international bankers but they didn't use international bankers but it was like billionaires. get that for us because it's quite a contrast between the two selections that he made last night or that he's going to make today. four, he likes generalists. what's your take away from that, nick? anything in particular there? >> well, first of all, you know,

it strikes me he has more billionaires in donors than his cabinet than any past president that i can think of. if this is going to be an assault on the elites of the coast, i think the elites on the coast are doing pretty well if personnel is policy. >> well, specifically, when you talk about wall street and mark halpern, you look at -- you've got a goldman sachs guy here and a lot of billionaires. a lot of people with wall street connections. again, that final ad that looked straight out of the playbook of, you know, steve bannon, which was just blaring the pop poulous message about how wall street, goldman sachs and, you know, the e.u. and all these international organizations were weighing down the working man and woman, a lot of these picks seem to be actually cutting against that message, that populus message. >> these are two friends of donald trump but you could literally imagine him against the campaign running negative

ads against these two guys cherry picking off their resumes and making them poster children for the kind of anti-wall street populus message he ran on. there's a lot of ironies in this cabinet. they're going to be part of the economic team. it's not clear who's going to be the quarterback. they run afoul of what donald trump talked about during the campaign. they are his friends and they are really rich and he values those two things. >> mnuchin, of course, worked for robert rubin. >> right. >> and goldman sachs guy which of course they showed our friend lloyd in that commercial, lloyd from goldman sachs but they're picking right from. >> mnuchin, goldman, bannon worked for goldman. mitt romney, bain capital. these are not people that are populi populist. mnuchin and ross big donors.

there's some element -- >> like donald trump. like donald trump. >> like donald trump, yeah. a huge democratic donor. >> i would be willing to put a lot of money that the most controversial cabinet pick is tom price. that's going to energize the democratic party. >> already has. >> against medicare. >> wants to revamp social security a bit. if the democrats are ever going to stand up in congress, they're going to stand up over him. >> let's stay on mnuchin. >> i did have some relief, mika, in this crazy whacky political system. it was nice that we sort of returned to political norms and niceties where democrats were only accusing republicans of trying to kill graham. went out yesterday and said -- >> if we are popping popcorn, you guys are jumping all over the place. >> no, we're not going straight by the script. >> that's fine. >> while we're talking about mnuchin, i'm just going to tell you that he's 53 years old. >> oh, really? >> he is trump's finance chairman during the campaign. >> yeah. >> this is now his choice for

secretary at the treasury. he worked his way to partner at goldman sachs before starting a hedge fund and later financing major motion pictures. >> x men and avitar. >> a southern california mortgage lender could become a hurdle. this is a great opportunity for elizabeth warren to actually use her platform, her background and her care for the american people to speak out. in 2009 mnuchin and other financiers purchased indymac which had collapsed after being -- bringing on reckless home loans -- binging on reckless home loans during the subprime mortgage boom renaming it one west. the bank carried out more than 36,000 foreclosures. according to one nonprofit's estimate. mnuchin sold it for a big gain. >> that's going to play very well in wisconsin. >> got a lot of democrats fighting against -- >> michigan, ohio and pennsylvania.

>> that was the reason the consumer financial protection bureau was built. that's an important issue. >> democratic senator stated, given mr. mnuchin's history propping up victims of predatory lending, i look forward to asking him how his treasury department will work for americans who are still waiting for the economic recovery. >> there we go. >> so how's this going to go over on capitol hill? >> i think they'll do just fine. it remains to be seen which nominees might get scrutiny from republicans, which ones might have democrats going over. i don't expect either one of these guys having confirmation problems. i think the bigger question from a policy point of view is who will drive economic policy. we don't know who will be head of the national economic council, but these guys are not people with experience in government in a way that -- even with a bob rubin. i don't have a sense of what

policies they're going to carry around or whether they're going to drive policy. >> right now this is basically they're going to do donald trump's spinning because neither one of them have a history of driving policy. again, most of them contributed to the democratic party. i think the bigger problem, maybe they get confirmed, nick. donald trump in his success and failure depends on wisconsin, michigan, ohio and pennsylvania. not president of the united states without those states. >> correct. >> and yet the people that voted for him in those states did not vote for goldman sachs treasury secretary and they didn't expect him to put a billionaire in charge of goldman sachs. certainly don't think -- certainly not democratic billionaire. a lot of republicans that came out and voted for him. what's the political fallout of this? how much hay can democrats make out of this? >> a ton. this will be a tableau for democrats to say. here were trump's promises and

rhetoric on the campaign trail and here are the people who are the mouth factors of that same message who are now being appointed to his cabinet right and left. you can't have it both ways. as mark said, it's not clear what policies he will drive. the problem here with trump is that he was vague on policy on the campaign trail. no one actually knows yet. >> no one knows. policy is going to come from the white house as mark pointed out. there's no head of counsel of economic advisor been named yet and steve mnuchin, smart guy obviously. made a lot of money, obviously. has never run anything big. so he's going to need a strong under secretary of the treasury because treasury is not unlike the state department. it's huge entrenched bureaucracies been there for years. >> the problem is if you're donald trump, i personally don't think he's going to do this, but if you're going to change republican economic policy over the past 30, 35, 40 years, you need really, really smart people around you that are going to drive that message, not only to

the hill but also the american people. he does not have those people here. >> yeah. >> he does not have the people that are going to say, hey, i know you've been reading from milton freedman, we're going to have to do more than that. he doesn't have it in these two people. you know, we're saying here, mark it down, just like i said back when barack obama got elected, he will never shut down gitmo. mark it down here. >> he did say that. >> i said it. in 2008, said it will never happen. with these picks, donald trump will never get through a republican congress meaningful economic legislation that deviates from past republican economic policy. >> i would say ross is the different one. he's worked with banks on the bailout of banks. he's advocated for protectionist policies. ross is a wall street guy who i think is a little more in sync on papers with trump's own

views. aside from that, i think you're right. >> mark, peter navarro is a professor who's advising trump. he does have very different views on this old republican party. he may be the chief economic policy advisor in the white house according to some people i'm talking to and he may drive this much more than these cabinet secretaries. there's another appointment coming today i'm told, todd rickets, one of the owners of the cubs. deputy commerce secretary. interesting as we start talking about mitt romney. the rickett family ran negative ads against donald trump. i don't know how many people would give a job to someone in their administration who paid for negative ads against them. rickets is another guy with not government experience but somebody who has pretty standard republican views on economics. >> you say that also about nikki haley who just had contempt for donald trump during the south carolina primary. >> and mitt romney, by the way, throw him in there. >> what did mitt say?

>> mitt romney met last night for a second time. romney spoke to reporters after the dinner. listen to what he said. >> i was also very impressed by the remarks he made on his victory night. by the way, it's not easy winning. i know that myself. he did something i tried to do and was unsuccessful in doing. he won the joerchl election and he continues with a message of inclusion, of bringing people together and his vision is something which obviously connected with the american people in a very powerful way. i happen to think that america's best days are ahead of us. i think you're going to see america continue to lead the world in this century and what i've seen through these discussions i've had with president-elect trump as well as what we've seen in this speech on the night of his victory as well as the people he's selected as part of his transition, all of those things combined give me increasing hope that

president-elect trump is the very mantha can lead us to that better future. >> looked a little pained having to make that statement last night. they had a nice dinner there, john and george, i guess, at the trump hotel. >> you know it's kind of like when king george was giving -- given a hot dog at hyde park. >> frog's legs were on the menu. >> oh. >> trump, reince priebus you saw up there in the picture as well. basically romney's message was, yes, i called him a fraud and phony and campaigned like my life depended upon it. i made this big speech and went out of my way. i liked what i've seen since he was elected. he's saying the right things. >> i can explain that. i think everybody at this point, at least everybody who has a constructive part of their brain that actually cares about this country, you know, you campaign against him. we were -- i mean, there were times i was very upset about things that happened during the campaign, but in the beginning everybody should try and help

for it to succeed. not the media, but i mean people like mitt romney. he's doing the right thing. >> certainly republicans. >> well, i think democrats ought to say, we'd like to work with republicans as well and not just starts saying no. >> well, i mean, you know, the democrats have complained for eight years about the meeting that took place and mitch mcconnell, everybody, that was trying to undercut barack obama from the beginning. they should -- you know, if they want to be different, they want to be better, then they should do that. if they want to do the same thing they did, that's their business. they can't do both. >> can't complain about it for eight years. >> i saw nothing wrong with that. >> romney though, the thing is, mike, i think mitt romney's doing what they said republicans need to do. if you didn't like what he did, if you didn't like what he said you have two choices. stay away and leave him to his own devices and only feed into

his worst instincts or go in there and try to influence him for the better. you know what, i tip my hat to mitt romney for doing that. >> i do, too. >> despite the fact that he's being hacked to little pieces by all these people because he's trying to help his country. >> it's received a great amount of publicity, kellyanne conway going after mitt romney that way. he spent the better part of eight or nine years running for president of the united states himself. he was disappointed twice. he wants this job, i think, and this job would be validation of his efforts to become president. it allows him to play a large role on the global scene. i think he'd -- i think it would be a great appointment for donald trump. >> i still think it would be a great appointment. petraeus, obviously impressed. you really have to think long and hard before you put a general secretary of state, a general at nsa and a general at defense. >> absolutely.

>> and homeland security. >> we call that a military -- >> and homeland security. >> and homeland security. >> i think the generalist thing shows that it's the last part of the american military. it's an instinctive reach. it's also a dangerous precedent. you want civilians to control the government. there are other people who can run these offices. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump claims victory as carrier announces plans to keep 1,000 jobs headed to mexico in the u.s. plus, he ran as a pop poulo poulous, but will the president-elect approach the country as a -- >> we have david here? >> first, bill karins with a check on the forecast and some severe weather in the middle of the country. bill? >> overnight tornadoes struck mississippi, alabama, tennessee. now we know of five fatalities, two in tennessee, three in jackson county, alabama. in all we have 22 tornado

reports and as day break has come we're going to see more pictures. look at some of the damage there. these were strong tornadoes. when you see a stump of a tree like that literally just ripped off, that was a strong tornado. we'll find out officially how strong they were and how many homes and structures were cleatly destroycleat completely destroyed. we aren't done. 550 miles of a stretch severe weather. started into louisiana and moved up into areas of tennessee. for today the biggest concern will be wind damage, maybe an isolated tornado. 10 million people from mobile, biloxi, augusta. the other story is what happened in tennessee with the fires. i'm happy to report we have gotten some rain. here's the gatlinburg area. pouring just off to the west. eventually some of this will move into the fire area. there's 15 large blazes burning right now in southern portions of the appalachians. these are some of the aftermath pictures from yesterday after about 150 to 200 structures were

completely destroyed between gatlinburg and the pidgeon forge area. they said at one point fires were spreading eight miles downwind of the actual initial big blaze because of 60 to 70 mile per hour winds. we hope to get them some rain today and to give the firefighters a little bit of a break. once again, we had the tornado outbreak. five fatalities on the heels of tennessee's morning fire. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> got my grandparents out just in the nick of time, probably an hour before it burned. everybody is safe but their home for 43 years is gone. >> my grandfather being a vietnam vet, one of the main things is guns and so the gun i learned how to shoot with, my first bb gun is right here. >> what's left of it. >> yeah, what's left of it anyway. it is completely gone.

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our jobs as they flee to mexico, to china, and other countries all around the world. it's a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities. the only thing that can stop this corrupt machine is you. >> so, you know, that offended a lot of people during the campaign. they thought it was anti-semitic. i did not see that. i trust those who said it was. the thing that i saw, howard dean, they were talking about goldman sachs. >> howard's here. >> i saw it and tweeted immediately, this will help republicans in the future, you know, in states like wisconsin, michigan, ohio, and

pennsylvania. it will get working class voters out that don't trust wall street, that don't trust the international finance system that they run now. so there you go. and it did. but then this morning we look and it's steve mnuchin and wilbert ross and all these guys that are, you know, billionaires and i just wonder, how do you get the reforms through republican congress that will be resistant in the first place if those are your economic guides that are pushing him? >> first of all, i think he gets a pass for a while. the american people have just been through two years of a horrible campaign and he can get away with a lot right now. it's the same stuff with all the conflict of interest business. it needs to be aired. he's going to have to do something about it eventually. right now people are just saying, okay, let's give this guy a chance to put this cabinet together. when it starts to go south for other reasons -- >> right. >> -- this is going to be a big issue. i don't think it is now. >> so does he have from all you

know -- you know a little bit about wall street. does mnuchin have what it takes to calm the waters when the dow's down 20%? the buzz i've heard from wall street is he doesn't. >> that's a great question. >> not at that level. >> i've thought about this a lot just over the years about what a treasury secretary needs to be. george w. bush had two secretaries who were very good business people and failed in the job who were outside wall street. it seems to me that the real job of the secretary is to calm the financial markets when there's a major problem and to bring some role -- >> i know it will offend a lot of republicans and democrats but robert rubin. jpmorgan. >> that's exactly right. so mnuchin is from that world. i don't know him. i have read that he's not the heavy hitter that hank paulsen was. you can say a lot of bad things

about hank paulsen, but he was one of the people that kept the show together while the country and the world was falling apart. so does he have that kind of gravitas? not yet. >> hank paulsen is that guy, too. in 2008 he could get all the heads of wall street -- >> that's right. and say you've got to do this. >> dimon says, you're not going to do it and paulsen says, yes, you are. >> you heard goldman sachs, secretary of treasury in, what, ten years? it's kind of amazing when you think about it. >> yeah. >> willie and i have been on the record since 2000 seven, if anybody at goldman sachs wants to hire us, we are always available. >> i could be there by 8:00. >> i could be there by 7. >> the future of the american center. david writes this, instead of just rs and ds there will be a trump dominated populist nationalism, a more libertarian freedom caucus, a bernie sanders/elizabeth warren

progressive caucus, a chuck schumer/nancy pelosi democratic old guard. the trump/sanders era has probably a start of legislative caucus with members of both parties where it goes from there anybody's guess. it's milton friedman on economic policy, ronald regan on foreign policy and franklin roosevelt on welfare policy. the new center will probably start as a legislative caucus with members of both parties. where it goes from there is anybody's guess. >> i don't agree. it's already here. >> really? >> the problem is, none of them are interested in politics. it's the first global generation. >> millennials. >> i call them the first globals. they believe in all of this. they are libertarian economically. >> i think they're interested in politics. they were all over bernie sanders. >> they were. and that was great. >> and you. >> and me and that was wonderful. look at the turnout. >> that's because it was hillary. >> they rigged it for hillary

and bernie never got a chance. >> i wouldn't quite go that far. >> oh, no, that's what happened. read the e-mails. >> okay. >> hold on. >> twist the knife. >> let's not relitigate that. >> sorry, i'm not holding any grudges. >> thank you. >> so i actually -- i agree with howard, mark halpern. i also know that there's been a strain before where i know when we get there in '94 we would walk into a room and be shocked when we were sitting there with sort of supposedly hard right wing guys and aclu and whether it was expanded wire tapping that we were fighting, whether it was a mexican bailout that we were fighting that was actually goldman sachs bailout, there were all of these very interesting sort of crosscurrents which have been kind of wiped away by the bush -- the eight bush years and the eight obama years. howard's got a point, doesn't he? and david brooks, we're going to see a lot of interesting alliances moving forward.

>> look, there's obviously a lot of focus now on the personalities and the symbolism of these appointments. in the end, this administration will be judged and should be judged by do they create new jobs that pay well in the new economy? a lot of the people they're bringing in are old economy people. they're people who know about manufacturing, which has got to be a part of the mix for sure, but the question is do they have these alliances that create health care opportunities in a new way that republicans want to do? jobs that stay in this country, new jobs that get created? that's how they'll be judged and how they should be judged. the question is when they come up against paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and the old ways the republicans thought about the economy, do they find a way to compromise? does that include democrats on things like infrastructure and tax reform which is where they're going to start. >> it's very interesting. trump announced the carrier plan is keeping jobs in the u.s. let's see what the -- >> that's trump on the phone himself, by the way. >> i sent this to phil griffin,

he said it was fascinating that he talked to -- he was watching an interview of a guy -- >> mike pence. >> i voted for donald trump. why? because he said he was going to keep my job. if he does, i'll vote for him again. if he doesn't, i'll vote for somebody else. >> right. >> that's basically it. there's a lot of -- >> that's what i was going to say. governor mike pence is governor of indiana who helped wire this deal. 1,000 jobs. trump will appear there. 1,000 jobs staying. >> symbolic. >> that's a win. coming up on "morning joe," the president and the press. historian john meachem takes us back to a simpler time when ronald regan phoned cbs news during a newscast to register his complaints about a news story. how the times have changed. >> that sounds exciting. john meachem coming with a story that ronald regan called dan rather in the middle of a newscast. you know what's so fascinating? >> what? >> john meachem is going to find a way to make that look boring.

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morning about donald trump's announcement about his businesses now that he will be president. he tweeted earlier this morning, quote, i will be holding a major news conference in new york city with my children on december 15th to discuss the fact that i will be leaving my great business in order -- in total in order to fully focus on running the country in order to make america great again. while i am not mandated to do this under the law, i feel it is visually important as president to in no way have a conflict of interest with my various businesses. hence, he writes, legal documents are being crafted which take me completely out of business operations. the presidency is a far more important task. let's bring in pulitzer prize winning writer, ed meachem and jo john duffy. >> that's a get. >> you were a late ad. >> all right. all right. >> let me start with you,

michael. obviously there are a lot of questions that perhaps can be answered at this press conference on december 15th. primarily, what does it mean to walk away from your businesses if you're donald trump? does it mean that you're actually going to put them in a blind trust which is hard for a lot of people to believe that he's going to do? or are you merely handing them over to your kids and keeping them in the familiar 4ri? >> if he does the full monty, he's going to sell them to the kids. that's the safest route because it does divest him of the businesses particularly the overseas one which are troublesome and problematic. so the cleanest way through is for him to sell to the kids. there's a tax treatment you get if you sell your stuff for conflict of interest reasons. so he could actually come away okay financially and kind of break with the business. whether he'll take that full step isn't clear yet. we'll know when he has his press conference. we may know sooner if they tell us. >> even there, john, people wondering is that a full erase

o -- erasure of your conflict of interest? >> there's a strange irony at work here which is i think one of the things that people who oppose trump, including say his opponent, secretary clinton thought was so remarkable about him was clearly how close he is to his family and that there's a genuine thing and all of us who have kids know that if you raise kids who still like you at that point, you've done something right. and then now this is sort of coming back in some ways to raise these questions. >> hey, michael, what are your thoughts on the coverage, how we in the media cover the president-elect's tweets? >> well, i think anything a president does, says, looks at, nods toward, any kind of movement or -- is news. it's reportable. there isn't really anything you shouldn't -- you should pay attention to everything they do and say and anything you don't do in public you should try to find out. that seems to be all fair game.

>> so let's then -- let's dip in. we have steve mnuchin speaking. >> that will be a big focus. we're working with congress and the different departments in the administration to make sure we figure out how to fund it in the most effective way. i think we're going to look at a lot of different things, some public/private partnerships, different types of things. it's all going to be a big priority. thank you very much. the carrier deal, i think it's terrific. the president-elect and the vice president picked up the phone and called the ceo of united technologies we want to keep jobs here. can't remember the last time a president did this. this is going to be a terrific opportunity. both myself, wilbur, ross who's in commerce working with the president making sure we do the right thing for the american workers. thank you very much, everybody. >> okay. steve mnuchin, quick stop at the cameras at trump tower in the lobby. talking about infrastructure at the beginning when we dipped in

there and how they have plans and looking into public/private partnerships. i know that is going to be a big announcement at some point, how they move forward with a massive infrastructure plan. that's something donald trump campaigned on saying that nothing works, he is going to make america great again and how it sort of seems like a third world country in some of our major infrastructure areas, airports, bridges, roads, tunnels. >> the carrier deal is in a year that you could not script, it's almost as though you scripted this to be able to deliver on a stump talking point. >> uh-huh. >> just really remarkable. >> good symbolism there. >> and reality. >> michael duffy, the infrastructure package the president-elect has proposed, over 100 trillion dollars actually over a period of years, what do you look for in terms of several elements of the republican caucus basically the tea party people could potentially balk at such a high

number at that price tag? >> it's a big price tag. at the moment trump proposes to fund the infrastructure programs through tax breaks, tax credits. that's different than how the democrats would do it mostly with a direct funding. that has one advantage and will appeal more in some ways to the republican caucus than the other way. it's interesting that mnuchin is now treasury secretary here because obviously he can -- he understands long-term financing, which is a lot of the secret here in terms of how to pay for long-term infrastructure. but he'll have a lot of other things to do, tax, trade, and the whole entitlement reform stuff. >> we're going to take a quick break. everyone stay here. when we come back, you know -- you know how trump always called in during the campaign, his interaction with the press was a lot of friction but very apparent. there was not a lot of hiding from the press. some people really kind of were very critical of that, but some others think there's echos of reagan there.

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we have a couple of historians with us. we thought we'd take look back at how donald trump's -- that's you, meachem. tense relationship with the media. let's just say it's very tense and how it compares with president ronald regan's interaction with the press. back in 1982 various media outlets reported that president reagan was backing away from a u.s. ally when he made an accord with china. that gradually reduced arms sales to taiwan. >> the first chance reporters got to question the president about the controversial arrangement with peking was when mr. reagan was welcoming the visiting president of liberia. mr. reagan quickly found himself on defensive. >> did we cave in on taiwan? >> only the press did. not us. >> your critics insist you're

abandoning it. >> they're not telling the truth. >> that's how nbc reported it. that evening president reagan watched a similar report on cbs and took such offense to critics suggesting that he had flip flopped on taiwan that he called anchor dan rather during the broadcast. the president's spokesman said reagan was ticked off and that he also phoned a columnist to express his displeasure. the call came during the broadcast second feed and rather told viewers, quote, an unusual thing happened here in our newsroom tonight and said the president had called to say, quote, there had been no retreat by me, no change whatsoever. later rather said about the call from reagan, you hang around this business long enough and you begin to think that you have seen and heard everything twice, but this was the first time a president has called up while we were on the air. yeah. times have certainly changed. also this one from the presidential vault. karen tumulty of the washington

post shared this 1971 memo from president richard nixon's papers when he wrote a top aide, i hope you will note the next time you are talking to zeeb bow skally and klein, that his first appearance where i played the good sport role the reporters were considerably more bad mannered and vicious than usual. this bears out my theory that treating them with considerably more contempt is in the long run a more productive policy. >> that didn't work out really well for president nixon. >> ultimately. >> true, true. thank you. >> you're welcome. >> i'm not bored. no, but, you know, look, trump has had -- i think what people really struggle with along the way was his access to the media and his ability to pick up the phone and call. on our show we always said, anyone else want to call in, do it.

lindsey graham, hillary clinton never called in, everyone was closed up and always thinking what they were going to say. i think people really liked that he was just willing to spout off. whether that's right or wrong. >> but he understood something about contemporary culture that the other candidates didn't obviously, which is that you have to be a constant character in the lives of your followers. >> yes. >> whether that's on twitter or on cable, he seems -- it's very interesting to see going forward. there's no such thing to some extent in this media climate as over exposure. >> no. >> now the presidency -- >> can't get enough. >> the presidency is different or has been, i should say. >> i think we can all agree on one thing about donald trump, he is a marketing genius, a marketing genius. michael duffy, i would not be surprised if the ticket to the white house correspondents dinner next spring is the hottest ticket in the country to get, to hear the president of the united states, donald j. trump, up there whacking all of us around. >> dishing it out the way he was dished over the last couple of years.

>> yeah. >> pay back time. you know, i would also note that presidents have called reporters and editors and even anchor men when they were still just anchor men for years. johnson called up and complained and cajoled and weedled. carter had a habit of doing it. reagan. it's fallen off as a habit. there are other ways they've found to go around the press and out.media and get their message that's clearly in the environment are in right now. it comes at a time when news rooms are pressured. >> you think? >> it works to their advantage. >> presidents always complain about the press. whether it's the obama administration, george w. bush's administration, or before that the clinton administration, you always get complaints. the difference now is they're aired publicly. they're put out on twitter and donald trump two nights ago go on a long four tweet rant about cnn's coverage of them. that's the difference. you don't see it play out in front of the public. >> poor jimmy carter when he

called. remember, he called and they put him on hold. >> stop it. you just stop that right now. >> national security advisor. okay. i want you to watch your narcolepsy. >> all right. >> george washington, at the risk of -- >> i just fell asleep. >> george washington actually thought about not standing for a second -- you remember, barnacle wrote a column about this, actually thought about not standing for a second term because he was tired of being criticized and he never had an opponent. jefferson hired people when he was in the state department to write for the newspapers to support his point of view. >> well, that's kind of interesting. >> andrew jackson didn't like the coverage he was getting in the party newspaper so he founded a new one. >> when do a president's tweets become part of the -- you know, that was -- >> that was fdr. >> no, i'm sorry. >> president-elect donald j. trump's tweets, all of the statements are recorded and put in bound volumes. will tweets be in the bound volumes? >> great question.

>> yes! >> for any biographer of this man, the -- >> good luck. >> the tapes of "the apprentice" are going to be relevant. all of the lifestyles of the rich and famous clips. he's had this sort of broad life in the media, but absolutely the tweets will be, because they're an insight either into what he is thinking or what he wants us to think. >> you know what's -- i think -- we don't know a lot, but this is one guy who's already lived on the big stage. >> yes. >> so it's not going to be daunting or new or, you know -- i mean, even the family -- i'll never forget melania on "60 minutes." my favorite line so far bar none, we will manage. like going to figure it out. we're all freaking out, where are they going to live, what are they going to do? they're good. they have lived on the big stage before and they will figure out how to live on this big stage, too. it's sort of a new interesting dynamic to see a nonplussed family come in there going, this is nice, but we -- you know, this is how we've been living.

michael duffy -- yeah? >> one other difference between the reagan calls an anchor directly, one on one. trump's broadcasting this. and we have to watch it all because it can have a chilling effect. >> i agree. there's lots of different ways this could go. this could be -- >> something to watch. >> yeah. but we'll see. open minds. michael duffy, thank you very much you up next, david of "the new york times" says republican economic policy hasn't had a good track record of late. he writes that trump now faces a choice, be big marco or set his own path. david joins us next to explain. ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪ ♪ only a hippopotamus will do at the united states postal service, we deliver more online purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. and more hippopotamuses, too. ♪

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for all of life's mishaps, band-aid brand's got you covered. and bring home disney pixar's finding dory, today! everybody's got to be covered. this is an unrepub can thing to say. >> universal health care? >> i'm going to take care of everybody. everybody is going to be taken care of, much better than they're being taken care of now. >> that was president-elect trump breaking with government programs. now he's faced with a choice. usher in a reformist agenda or revert back to the gop's traditional standard which has not necessarily worked of late for the economy or for the republican presidents who sit in congress. joining us is david leo nard who explores that question in a recent column. david writes in part, donald trump won the presidency by trashing both political parties. he defied republican orthodoxy

and praised government programs. he member ran bring dismissed his primary opponents as low energy jeb, lying ted and little marco. doing so allowed him to win a landslide of white working class voters. these voters by no means libertarians saw trump as flawed yet willing to fight for them. now that's what he's won. he has to decide whether his differences with the republican establishment are more stylistic than substantive. on the issues with the biggest impact on working class lives. he will need to choose between pursuing the policies of a traditional republican president and creating something new. in effect, he'll have to decide whether he's going to be his own president or a bigger version of little marco. with that, david, we've read your entire column. fantastic. >> i appreciate it. >> getting the word out. >> nice being on. >> explain for us this distinction, what you mean by big marco versus the alternative. >> we obviously are all familiar with the talking points about all we have to do is cut taxes,

get read of regulation. reagan is usually cited. it's true the economy did quite well under ronald regan but when you look at the full history, it doesn't matter what period you choose, 30 years, 50 years, 80 years. doesn't matter what measure. the economy has done worse under republican presidents. some of that is luck but some of that i think is real and its pea because just cutting taxes at the top and essentially not regulating businesses doesn't really lead to an economic boom. it creates as many problems as it solves. and so the question is does trump just rerun that same play and hope it has better results this time or does he govern in a way that's different the same way he campaigned in a way that was different? >> so you do you read anything into these appointments in the last 24 hours, commerce secretary wilber ross or treasury secretary steve mnuchin? >> i think it's really hard to tell right at this point. those of us in the media should have a lot of humility about

making predictions about donald trump so i'm trying to have that humility. i think most of the early signs do not point toward a fundamentally different kind of conservative economics. i mean, if you look at congressman price at hhs, if you look at a bunch of these things, we don't really see signs of it. on the other hand, steve moore, a former reagan advisor who is known as mr. supply seider came out and said, look, republicans have to get used to the idea that we're not reagan's party anymore, we're trump's populist party. there are conflicting signals. i think it's going to be one of the most important issues and at some point he has to stop tweeting or he can keep tweeting but at some point he has to start governing. those are where the real decisions are going to be made rather than these kind of smoke signals that we get now during the transition. >> moments ago steve mnuchin, donald trump's treasury choice spoke to the media about his qualifications for the position. take a listen. >> explain how your experience both in hollywood and on wall

street will help you at the treasury department? many people say you don't have that government experience that's necessary. >> well, let me first say what i've really been focused on is being a regional banker for the last eight years. i know what it takes to make sure that we can make loans to small and mid-market companies. that's going to be our big focus, making sure we scale back regulation so that we make sure the banks are aligned. >> also transportation secretary was chosen. a lot of blasts from the past but also some of the similarities to administrations past in terms of ties to wall street, goldman, for example. does that give you pause or is it still worth keeping an open mind given how this candidate has been out of the box from the get-go? >> i mean, i think it's worth keeping an open mind. i think i was -- i was glad to see henry paulsen tell andrew sorkin that he was impressed with mnuchin.

i think we don't know yet. you don't necessarily need a classic resume in order to do one of these government jobs, right? some of the most successful people in washington haven't necessarily come with a classic resume. we have people who have been in government for a very long time. in the second bush administration and some newcomers as well. the thing that we used to be more worried is i would like to begin to see some actual policies from this incoming administration that would really address the needs of the working class americans who supported him. and so far there aren't a lot of those. >> david, thank you. in the final 30 seconds, presidential transition, john meachem please bring the show in for a landing with some incredible historic parallels. >> incredible historic parallels. 100 days doesn't matter. that was from fdr. this is a long game. trump has proven that. i think the idea that he doesn't have policies is a media

confection to some extent and we have gotten almost everything wrong about him until this hour and so i think going forward, as david says, humility is a good idea. >> he likes to keep people guessing. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. wife' got breaking news to report. a deadly tornado tearing through the south killing five people. a 24-hour day care center leveled. live at the scene. while in the state of tennessee total devastation. >> we could feel the heat coming off of -- it was nothing but red. >> at least three are dead. dozens of homes destroyed. residents are finally returning home this morning as one man searches for his wife and children. >> i told her to call 911 and get out. that was the last time i heard from her. >> and a night on the town. nyc style. donald trump and mitt romney dining out on frog