interest between the president-elect and the pipeline as long as he holds his assets and doesn't divest himself from his business holdings and his stocks. msnbc live is next. good morning, everyone, i'm dara brown at msnbc world headquarters. 7:00 out east. new reaction this morning to president-elect trump's phone call with the leader of taiwan. the big question, will it damage relations with china? bitter end, the campaign squabbling over who won and why. we'll bring you the latest. behind the numbers. is the carrier deal all that it's cracked up to be? i'll ask a former economist who advised president obama. and sarah palin reportedly looking to join the trump administration, but now she's openly criticizing one of the president-elect's first big moves. new reaction from the

president-elect's controversial on his controversial call with the president of taiwan. the call was captured in minutes released by the taiwanese government last night. ckellyan reporters. >> this is the pinellas count-- president-elect, he'll be president of the united states imminently now. and he either will disclose or not disclose the full contents of the conversation. he's well aware of what u.s. policy has been. >> trump fired back at critics saying interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan millions in military equipment but i should not accept a congratulatory call. trump's phone call with the taiwanese president was among several he had with world leaders yesterday including the president of the philippines who said they extended travel in invitations to each other. on the heels of trump saving 1,000 jobs at one of the carrier plants in indiana, sarah palin, who is reportedly in the running for v.a. secretary, wlorote an

op-ed calling the dean phony cal tallism. former dnc chair howard dean says he doesn't want his only e old job back. he recorded the message in denver at a gathering for others vying for the chair including congressman keith ellison. >> here's my promise to you -- i am not going to be a candidate for the democratic national committee chairmanship. i think it could possibly be divisive. i have other priorities. i have a grandchild now. but i am dedicated to fully using as much time as i can to support whoever the chairman is. more on the trump taiwan call. hans nichols, good morning. what is the white house saying about the president-elect's phone call with the leader of taiwan? >> reporter: last night they were saying they were unaware of the phone call. they only learned about it, the white house that is, after it was reported in the press. according to senior administration officials. you know, this does broker phone calls, believed to be the first

direct conversation between a president and president-elect since 19789 and the president of the taiwan. the white house is trying to do on all of these calls in conjunction with the department of defense, in conjunction with the state department, is to make things easier and offer guidance for the trump team should they want it. so far there hasn't been a lot of evidence that trump has availed himself or his team of that opportunity, of that advice from career officials in the state department. what the trump campaign is saying is that this call was initiated by the taiwanese. he accepted it. from the taiwanese side, they're saying it was prearranged. one thing we should note overnight, officials in china, the interior minister, interior ministry indicating that they're going to let this blow over, they're not making a big deal. reaction from china so far pretty muted. >> how is the trump camp responding to the criticisms of the call? this went out early. they said he didn't really check with them. how are they responding? >> reporter: their view is that

president-elect trump is going to do things differently. he's going to do things his way. and as you mentioned in the tweet he had out, yes, we have large arms sales to taiwan. in some ways, this is an indication to what extent donald trump is going to shake up business as usual as n washington. he's not going to follow normal diplomatic protocol. if he thinks something's a good idea, he's going to go ahead and do it. and then let the consequences fall where they may. >> hans nichols, thank you very much, from the white house. joining me now, nbc news.com's jane timm and "roll call" columnist jonathan allen, co-author of "hrc." let's begin with the call. is there any sense from the trump camp you on how this came about? >> i think the transition team did not regard this as a big deal until the outlets started saying this is really a different thing. this is the first american leader or president-elect since 1979 to the speak with a taiwanese leader. donald trump seemed to be litigating this on twitter.

this does not seem to have been -- i don't think they realized what this would do until it had already happened. and as hans said, i think we're going to see this happen a lot. that the president-elect is going to handle diplomacy in a way he sees fit and then respond as the chips do fall. >> and jonathan, is there any consensus on how this might affect diplomatic relations? republicans are raising it, but some calling it a threat to diplomatic security s. it all along republican lines? >> absolutely. i think ideally the president-elect or the president of the united states when donald trump becomes that would not accidentally or unintentionally jab china in the eye. usually you want to do that intentionally if you're going to do it. at the same time, i think that the -- that the screaming and yelling about this appears to be a little much. looks like the chinese as hans reported are going to let it blow over, not make such a big deal of it. a congratulatory phone calls,

even if a little bit of policy is discussed, is probably not the end of the world. >> and jane, jonathan mentioned yelling and screaming, but we have lingering bitterness between the clinton team and the trump team. here's part of the an exchange at a harvard forum, a cordial look at the campaigns. take a listen to this. >> i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> no, you wouldn't. >> yes -- >> no, you wouldn't -- >> yes, yes, yes. >> true -- >> one of my proudest moments. her is her standing up and saying with courage and clarity in steve bannon's own words and donald trump's own words, the platform that they gave to white supremacists, white nationalists, and it is a very, very important moment in hour history as our country. >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? you going to look me in my face and tell me that? >> it did! kellyanne, it did! >> we heard from kellyanne conway the next morning. what's been the reaction from

the trump camp? >> the trump camp is trying to portray the clinton campaign as sore losers and people who can't accept the outcome of the election, who aren't uniting behind the president-elect. but i think it's fair to say the trump camp reaction and the trump reaction are two different things here. trump has portrayed that the popular vote, which he lost by millions of votes, was sort of a fraudulent vote. that millions of people vote illegally, and if those things hadn't happened he would have also won. he's not the most gracious winner in this election. i think those things are dragging this out. and i think that it was such a surprise to see trump win despite what the polling had said. that i think this is going to take a little longer to settle than most elections. >> and here's trump on these thank you tour from the other night. >> we are going to appoint "mad dog" mattis -- [ cheers ] as our secretary of defense. we're not announcing it until monday, so don't tell anybody. they say he's the closest thing

to general george patton that we have, and it's about time. >> i know he not saying he's going to announce this until election, but what's been the overall reaction to the appointment of mattis? >> i not generally speaking, general -- i think generally speaking, general mattis is well regarded not only within the military community but in washington. was not necessarily the favorite of the obama administration, but i think he's being roundly praised by republicans and a lot of democrats in the national security space. i think there's some concern that president-elect trump is surrounding himself with a lot of retired generals, and there may not be a voice for diplomacy in the room in his situation room in the national security discussions. so if you take it as a whole, there's some concern about that. but mattis, as i was saying, is well regarded. and certainly has a lot more confidence than trump does among the national security apparatus in washington. >> and another appointment that's yet to be filled is

secretary of state. jane, what do you think is up with that search? is there anybody coming to the forefront? >> there is a wide list, and we see the list getting wider as the week goes on. general petraeus is also up for selection. i think that is where there's concern that he may be surrounding himself with a lot of retired generals. and of course, general petraeus' handling of secured, classified information, obviously raises a lot of criticism. you also see names like former new york mayor rudy giuliani and mitt romney of all people surprised us to see that, as well. i think this taiwan moment i think may bring somebody, may bring attention to the fact that maybe they want someone who has a sliert, more adept diplomatic touch in that position. >> and what's your take, jonathan? who do you think is at the forefront for secretary of state? >>'s not entirely clear because there's so much al qaejockeying goes on. there's reporting that donald trump's advisory team and donald trump will be looking closely at

david petraeus to see how he handles himself on sunday shows, how he handles questions about the guilty plea on mishandling of classified information and other questions that might arise. i think obviously he wouldn't, it wouldn't be -- if they weren't serious about him, rudy giuliani as somebody who has support from kellyanne conway, newt gingrich, and others in the trump camp. mitt romney is perhaps the most interesting possible selection there. very public courtship that will end with mitt romney as charlie brown having the football pulled away yet again, or as secretary of state. >> interesting days ahead. jonathan allen, jane timm, thank you very much for your time. >> thanks. >> take care. happening now, in south carolina, a jury that told a judge it's deadlocked but wants to keep deliberating anyway is home for the weekend. jurors spent more than 16 hours deliberating in the trial of a former police officer charged with gunning down an unarmed african-american motorist last year. they'll be back in court monday attempting to reach a unanimous

verdict. nbc's gabe gutierrez is in charleston. good morning. what is behind the deadlock? >> reporter: hi, dara. good morning. in a highly unusual move, that lone juror wrote a note to the judge saying that he could not in good conscience convict micha michael slager. now the panel is asking the judge to go home for the weekend and return monday morning. >> reporter: the deadly police shooting caught on camera stunned the nation. this morning, the family of walter scott is clinging to hope that a holdout juror might change his mind. >> we do believe within our heart that we will see justice for my brother. >> reporter: the jury going home for the weekend after adramatic day in court as the jury considered murder, manslaughter, or an acquittal. a single juror sending this note -- >> i still cannot without a

reasonable doubt convict the defendant. at the same time, my heart does not want to have to tell the scott family that the man that killed their son, brother, and father, is innocent. but with the choices, i cannot and will not change my mind. >> reporter: no mistrial yet. the judge telling jurors to keep trying. >> it's not over. we kept hearing it's over. it's over. >> we'll wait until monday, see what happens monday. >> reporter: former north charleston police officer michael slager is charge today with murder in scott's -- charged with murder in scott's death. during the trial he told the jury he shot scott in self-defense. >> i fired until the threat was stopped. like i'm trained to do. >> reporter: he pulled scott over for a broken taillight when scott bolted from the car. after a foot chase, slager said scott grabbed his gun during a struggle. as scott broke away, slager said

he was in total fear for his life. >> one of the keys of the case is what's not on the camera. there have been weeks and weeks of testimony. what is not on the camera. >> reporter: months after the shooting, the city of north charleston approved a $6.5 million civil settlement for walter scott's family. now no matter what happens in this murder case, michael slager still faces federal civil rights charges and could face life in prison if convicted. dara? >> gabe gutierrez, thanks. sarah palin potentially being tapped by donald trump to head the v.a. when that's still possible after she openly criticized the president-elect's carrier deal. , the search for relief often leads here. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy.

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now to the president-elect's phone call to taiwan and the

potential fallout. last night donald trump tweeted this -- interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but i should not accept a congratulatory call. now china's foreign minister says he hopes beijing's relations with the u.s. won't be interfered with or damaged after the diplomatic tradition was broken. joining me, retired army colonel and medal of honor recipient jack jacobs, also msnbc military analyst. welcome. you saw the tweet there. but this is a break after nearly four decades of diplomatic practice that could create a major rift with china even before trump takes office. how do you expect the chinese government to handle this? >> we'll try to keep a lid on it. i don't think they'll overreact. it's interesting that trump did this. you know, china's been destabilizing the region with its expansion. we've heard from our allies in the region that they're concerned about it. even japan's talking about rearmament and so on. and i think this is trump's way of destabilizing himself. i think he wants to keep china

on its heels, and even though it's a break of about 40 years of tradition, i think china's probably not going to overreact. having said all that, it certainly appears as if the trump administration, the incoming trump administration has a lot of agenda items, but not necessarily a real agenda. that's why it's vitally important that people who are important to the development of the strategy, secretary of defense and secretary of state, get to work as soon as they can. >> is this a national security threat as some democrats are suggestin suggesting? >> it isn't directly, but it might be indirectly. we're very much concerned about what's happening in northeast asia with the north koreans, and the only nation state that can have a positive effect on what happens in the region is china.

so far, they've hung back. they don't want to get involved with north korea. destabilizing north korea would result in millions of north korean refugees streaming across the river into china, china doesn't want to deal with that. so it's important that the united states has evenhanded and even relationship with china. good diplomacy rather than events like this are going to save the day. it's potentially extremely destabilizing, but i think cooler heads will prevail. >> speaking of defense secretary, james mat 'tis is a former commander. you said his focus has been on war fighting. how will he handle managing a large-scale bureaucracy? >> well, i think he's -- he can do it. i mean, he's run large-scale organizations. he's a smart guy. the enormous bureaucracy that is the defense department is sometimes immovable.

he can handle it, however. the question is whether or not he really wants to. a commander usually does what he wants to do which means that his sect in command, in this case the deputy secretary of defense, has to be experienced bureaucrat, adroit in dealing with that mass in the building, in the pentagon, and also really skilled at dealing with the relationships between the defense department on the one hand and the congress on the other who, after all, writes those checks which keeps the defense going. i think general mattis is going to do what he wants to do which is to deal in strategy on the one hand and deal with his soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines on the other, what he likes to do. it's vitally important he has a deputy who is first class in dealing with the bureaucracy. this also points up something that's really interesting. i think general mattis is skilled at national security affairs. less i'll askilled is the presi

designated national security adviser, general flynn. so i think there's going to be lots of fireworks between general flynn on the one hand and general mattis on the other. watch this face, dara. >> and colonel, if i may, real quick, sarah palin as secretary of veterans affairs. she just wrote an op-ed in which she called out trump's carrier deal and warned against crony capitalism. >> she blurts out pretty much like the president-elect does. very complex organization at a difficult time, i can't see her running it. it needs quiet, strong stewardship and great diplomacy. i don't think sarah palin's the person to do that. somebody else -- my guess is somebody else will be selected. >> colonel jack jacobs, always great to have you. thank you very much. >> you bet. thousands are saying their final good-bye to fidel castro. a report on what lies ahead for the cuban government.

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happening now in cuba, fidel castro's remains getting closer to their final resting place in santiago where the revolution start. huge crowds have been lining the streets as his ashes traveled across the island. nbc's morgan radford is there. and morgan, can you set the scene where you are? >> reporter: well, we're right here in santiago. [ speaking spanish ] this is where fidel castro made one of his first revolutionary speeches after the revolution. this is also the area of the island where he's from. he's from an hour and a half away. his ashes have been traveling from havana to here in the eastern part of the island. but what's interesting to see as we followed his ashes all throughout the island. we followed it for 20 hours in the caravan. and you see the emotion shift across the island. there's this interesting tug-of-war internally about who fidel castro's legacy belongs to more. in havana, that's where he became more of an established political figure. but here in the east, this is where he was from.

this is where his father in a large farm. that's what we're seeing as the emotion shifts. we saw people in havana celebrating his life. in santiago de cuba we are seeing them mourn his death. take a listen. >> it's his country and history. he's as big as that. the world has lost a brilliant mind and a brilliant human being. and i think to be a part of the honors that we are all trying to give him, it's a privilege. >> reporter: that was luna, she's doing the official tribute song for his death. we're going to see his ashes arrive here behind me at noon today. then there's going to be a public memorial ceremony at 7:00 p.m. and that will be the last public ceremony for people of this area to celebrate his life and to share in his legacy. dara? >> morgan lradford, you say whee you are much better than i could pre-nounce that.

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welcome back. i'm dara brown at msnbc world headquarters in new york. here's what we're monitoring -- happening now, these are live pictures from brazil and the final journey home for members of the brazilian soccer team who died when their charter plane crashed into a colombian mountain monday. their bodies at this hour arriving at the airport. the disaster left 71 dead. the jetliner ran out of fuel, lost electrical power, and was preparing for an emergency landing when it crashed. today donald trump is fending off criticism of his phone call with the president of taiwan. the first such conversation in

nearly four decades. nbc's kelly o'donnell is at trump tower in new york. and kelly, tell us what is the latest fallout from this call? >> reporter: it's surprising how much there has been international questions raised and a bit of heat stirred up all by donald trump who does not yet have a secretary of state in place to handle the diplomacy. he received a call here at trump tower, and it's being noticed around the world because it broke with policy. it has to do with china and its relationship to the island of taiwan. the fuss began when donald trump picked up the phone. citementingly ordinary -- seemingly ordinary press release revealed a diplomatic land mine. president-elect trump spoke by phone with the president of taiwan. something no white house has done in 35 years. the u.s. only formally recognizes the people's republic of china and not the self-governing island. the democratic national

committee pounced, "his foolish phone call threatens our national security." >> the wrong message could be received. he should be fully briefed by the state department before those communications. >> reporter: top trump adviser kellyanne conway balked at the criticism. >> president-elect trump is fully briefed and knowledgeable about the issues on an ongoing basis regardless of who's on the other end of the phone. >> reporter: trump reacted in all caps on twitter. "the president of taiwan called me." and in another he opined, "interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan billions of dollars of military equipment, but i should not accept a congratulatory call." conway insists no global drama was intended. >> he at least is having these private conversations, getting a readout here and there. but not trying to make policy and not trying to make waves. >> donald just trump -- >> reporter: friday, trump took heat from sarah palin who has sought a place in his

administration. palin criticized trump's deal to use state tax breaks to keep carrier jobs in the u.s. palin note "the relief for hundreds of workers" but slammed the plan as "special interest crony capitalism." and today chinese foreign ministers spoke with reporters in beijing and responded saying that he described it as a small trip by taiwan and insisting that the bedrock principle of one china, meaning the u.s. and most other nations only recognize one china and not the island of taiwan. that that's a principle that has to be maintained. also said that they've registered their displeasure with the west with the appropriate parties as they described it. the white house says they aren't commenting on any conversations this morning. dara? >> kelly o'donnell live in new york. thanks. now to more reaction from the president-elect's deal with carrier. joining us, former chief economic adviser to vice

president biden, jared bernstein, who's also an msnbc contributor. great to have you here. >> thanks. >> so this carrier deal calls for $7 million in tax breaks to the company in exchange for saving at least 1,100 jobs. we know this is a political win for the president-elect. would you regard this as a win-win for all the parties involve involved? >> certainly a big optical win for president-elect trump. i would consider it a win for the families of those workers and the communities wherein they live. if they had lost those jobs, which pay something like $20 to $25 an hour, the likelihood that they would find jobs as near as that in their area is low. and that kind of problem of deindustrialization is a long-term erosion in what we sometimes call the rust belt. a source of great support for president-elect trump. so he helped those families. what this isn't and what we should not confuse this move as is sustainable policy to push

back on the downsides of globalization. >> how typical are carrier-like deals like this? >> oh, they're very typical in the sense that states and localities are often making these deals to try to keep factories or stadiums or businesses in their areas. what we don't see are presidents and president-elects engaging in this dealmaking. the reason is that as i said in my earlier comments e comment, you can't sustain this kind of policy by simmery going around and trying to secretary generally bribe one firm or another to keep their jobs here -- to essentially bribe one firm or another to keep their jobs here, it's not the way a president in my view ought to think about industrial policy. >> the president-elect used the message to send to companies who might be contemplating moving jobs offshore. let's listen to what he said -- >> number one, we're going to treat them well. and number two, there will be consequences. meaning they'll be taxed heavily

at the border. if they want to leave, fire their people, leave, make product in different companies, different countries, and then think they're going to sell that product over the border. >> so do you think the companies might be taking notice and heeding mr. trump's warning? >> well, i'm not sure. i suspect not so much because donald trump definitely says a lot that he doesn't necessarily mean. it's hard to figure out what he's committed to and what's just kind of political kind of spouting of noise. but that said, the differential -- let's take the carrier example. carrier was going to pay its workers in mexico about $5 an hour. as i said, it was paying its workers up here $25 an hour. if you're going to try to give tax subsidies to firms or for that matter -- when you're going to use carrots or sticks, that is a huge differential to try to make up with that kind of a technique. much better, much more important is to invest advanced

manufacturing and the productivity of the american work force compete on a basis of productivity, not handing out goodies or whacking firms over the head with the kinds of tariffs he's considering. >> and there are critics like bernie sanders who says that other companies will now try to extort the government to win similar deals. let's hear what he said thursday -- >> what trump is doing is setting a very dangerous precedent. my guess is today that some corporation who may not have thought one second about leaving america, they'll announce mexico, saying who you going to do for us? >> what's your take on that? >> look, bernie nails it, as i was listening, i was thinking that donald trump, if you can hear me, i'm going to mexico. look, it's -- he is opening up precisely that kind of incentive. and that's why i said in my initial response to this, and i said this the first time i heard it, that this is not a

sustainable, scaleable approach to pushing back on globalization. it's an optical, political win and a big win for 1,000 families. you know what, indiana itself has lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs, of course the nation has lost millions. you can't go around picking this off a thousand at a time with these kinds -- when you're using carrots or sticks, there must be a much more systematic approach this. >> let's look at the jobs report that was out yesterday. 226,000 new jobs lowering the unemployment rate to 4.6%. that's the lowest since 2007. so why is there so much next negativity from the president-elect and will americans about the economy? >> 178,000 jobs last month. and yes, 4.6%, the lowest unemployment rate in nine years, and by the way, we're starting to see some wage growth as the job market tightens up. and that's helping people in their pocketbooks and wallets. but i think the negativity comes from the fact that it has been an uneven recovery because of

this income inequality problem that in fact bernie sanders talked eloquently about during the campaign. we're talking about national overview numbers, and they're positive, things are definitely moving in the right direction. but the recovery hasn't reached everyone where they live. now, if it keeps going, it will because it's starting to do so. but it's taking a while. this expansion is eight years old now. >> thank you for clarifying because it was 178,000 jobs. that was a big difference. thank you very much for being here. appreciate the input. >> you're welcome, dara. now to the latest reaction to a controversial decision involving the shooting death of former nfl player joe mcknight. mcknight was shot dead in an apparent road rage incident on thursday in a new orleans suburb. police have released the accused gunman without filing charges. nbc's jacob rascon is at harvey, louisiana, with more on this controversy. what are police saying?

>> the sheriff's department says that the investigation is ongoing, its investigators are reaching out to witnesses that they had not contacted the day of the shooting. as they contact the witnesses and gather evidence they will consult with the d.a.'s office to determine what if any charges are -- are appropriate here because there's no doubt that this person, ronal gasser, gunned down joe mcknight. he stayed on the scene, hand wanted over his weapon. the question when it is justifiable or when there are other charges that are appropriate, there were some rumors when this happened that he was standing over the body swearing at him and shooting him. the sheriff yesterday said those and other rumors are not true. in fact, it was mcknight who got out of his car, went ever to gasser's car, the passenger's side, and. then gasser shot him from inside the car after some argument. so they're going through that. they're going through other witness statements. and they wanted to put some rumors to rest. overnight, though, there was

some more information. we learned from the sheriff's department that gasser, the shooter, had been arrested previously for another road rage incident at the same intersection where he gunned down mcknight. according to the statement from the sheriff's department, an unidentified man called the "how am i driving number" on the back of gasser's truck. gasser found the man and hit him repeatedly. that charge was later dropped. that will have little to do with their decision now, but it tells you a little bit more about what we're dealing with here. dara? >> interesting developments. jacob rascon live from louisiana for us. thank you. it is a battle of campaigns as one of clinton's aides accuses team trump of playing to white supremacists in order to win the election. is there any truth to this? in the next hour, the trial of a former police officer charged with gunning down an unarmed african-american tourist. the lone juror holding out, sending a note to the judge. what are the chances of a mistrial? ugh. heartburn.

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if providing a platform for white supremacist makes me a brilliant tactician, i am glad to have laws and one -- give me a empty, david. when i am more proud of hillary clinton's all right speech than any other moment on the campaign because she had -- >> wow -- >> -- the courage to stand up, i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? you going to look me in the face and tell me that? >> it did, kellyanne. it did! >> that was kellyanne conway and clinton communications director jennifer palmieri displaying lingering bitterness over the almost month-old election. joe watkins, strapt jist and former aide to president george h.w. bush, and rick tyler, political analyst and former spokesman for ted cruz. great to have you with us. how unprecedented is this public fight especially after an

election? >> it was kind of a shame, not very graceful. the problem with palmieri's argument, the reason it doesn't work is, a, you'd have to believe there were enough white supremacists to swing the election. b, you would have to believe that those white supremacists used to vote for democrats in pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, and ohio. particularly eastern ohio. so it was her argument really that white supremacists used to vote for democrats and now vote for republicans? there's no basis to the argument. it came up a lot during the campaign. now everybody wants donald trump to somehow distance himself. that reminds me of when richard nixon said, you know, the people deserve to know if their president's ape crook. i'm not a crook. and every political practitioner from then on understood that you don't repeat your opponent's claims. >> joe, is there sething to palmieri's accusation that the trump campaign played to white supremacists? >> well, they didn't try hard 5 enough to disavow them. there were disavowels of the

white supremacists and david duke endorsement. we live in a diverse country. you've got a large african-american population. and people like me are looking for a strong, a strong, for you to strongly refute any kind of overtures from white supremacists. and so -- so there's that concern. i mean, just remember we live in a country where an african-american man named walter scott was shot dead by a police officer because of a broken taillight stop. and we've got a hung jury in south carolina over that case, over whether or not the police officer was guilty of murder. there's a lot of racial tension in the country. and this new administrationa is going to have to work really hard to assure african-americans that they'll be treated just as fairly as anybody else. >> joe, what does trump need to say? >> what does he need to say? he needs to make clear appointments. there need to be -- i understand the african-americans appointed to the cabinet, none yet. i'm sure that's coming, and i

hope it's coming, of course. clearly, we need for attorney general designate sessions to reassure african-americans that the rights of all black people, of all americans will be protected. i know he broke the back of the klan in alabama when he was attorney general there. that's a good thing. we expect our justice officials to -- to bring people who break the law to justice. but we just want to make sure that the attorney general also will consider the rights of all these people, including african-american men and women and others who -- who may have had their justice, their rights -- their rights broken, that he'll fight hard for them. that he'll fight hard for the family that's seeking justice in the case of their love of one who was shot dead by a police officer in charlotte, north carolina, in oklahoma, in milwaukee, for the family of -- of certainly walter scott in

south carolina. as long as he's going to fight hard and make sure their rights are protected like the rights of all americans, i think that -- that you'll see a quelling down of any concerns about this white supremacy stuff. >> and kellyanne conway is still battling the context of that. here's what she said the day after. take a listen. >> i took that personally. and i know that's not true, and president-elect trump has denounced every single element of that awful movement. i think some people are stuck in a permanent campaign. and they ought to realize that donald trump won 306 electoral votes, 30 of 50 states. >> and write there she does support your point, joe. rick, i want your response. what do you think? >> what do i think -- >> what do you think about kellyanne saying there was no white supremacist backing, that this was just the public voting? >> no. it was clear that there were white supremacists and joe pointed it out, david duke support him publicly and others

have publicly support him. but again, they're signing up the donald trump -- donald trump wasn't signing up to him. i've known kellyanne conway for decades and have known dave bossy for decades. i've have met and known steve bannon, and i don't believe these people are racist or white supremacist. we have to see. but i agree with joe. i think actions will speak louder than words. >> you brought up the point that jeff sessions will step forward and do something. do you think this is a charge that will follow trump throughout the administration, and if so what is the impact and how can he fix it? >> the president-elect has to reach out early on. he made comments during the campaign he was tkpwagoing to b great president, especially for african-americans, and he has to follow by action and this is a bitterly close erection, and you have to reach out to the other side that lost and that is

untrusting and say to them, i am going to be president for all americans and there has to be tangible actions that will show that's going to be the case. he has his work cut out for him, and he can get it done and he has to reach out in a tangible way. >> stay with me. coming up, we will talk more about trump's cabinet picks. we'll be right back. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads here. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a high intensity tens device that uses technology once only in doctors' offices. for deep penetrating relief at the source. new aleve direct therapy.

let's bring back our panel. joe watkins and rick tyler. let's talk trump's latest cabinet picks. james mattis. is he a good pick? >> seems like it. william cohen and others give him high marks, and he seems not to like his name "mad dog"

although trump likes it. he is a fighting general. when we have to go, he fights. >> trump is considering a lot of retired military men for administrative roles. what kind of dynamic does this set up? >> he is looking to show people that have background in high places in his administration. i think that's good. i think that you want people who have been there before and who understand the challenges that we face as a country and how to best protect america's interest abroad, and i think so far he made surprisingly good picks, i think, and mattis, i agree with rick that mattis is another good pick despite the nickname he has, and everything that i have heard about him is solid. and secretary cohen with a friend in somebody that i have a

tremendous admiration for. >> what is going to go on with the secretary of state choice? looks like trump has been mitt romney hanging on for weeks now. >> yeah, and he's just not letting on. he just keeps us guessing. i think mitt romney will be a great pick, because he understands world affairs and studied it in depth and would calm the waters and would be a great compliment to these sort of ma cheese mow balance. >> with trump's supporters, there's an uproar. >> obviously they have to weigh the fact that romney was not a trump loyalist during the campaign and he was anything but that but he does bring lots to

the table, and he has certainly a high regard around the world to somebody that has a statesman-like quality and he would bring a great deal to that position. >> thank you so much for spending your saturday morning with us. >> thanks so much. that will do it for me this hour. ayman mohyeldin is up next. whoa, whoa, i got this. just gotta get the check. almost there. i can't reach it. if you have alligator arms, you avoid picking up the check. what? it's what you do. i got this. thanks, dennis! if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. growwwlph. it's what you do. oh that is good crispy duck.

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