good saturday morning to you. i am ayman mohyeldin here at msnbc headquarters in new york. a ten-minute call was captured in the pictures released by the taiwan government last night, and here's kellyanne conway after reporters were told about the call. >> this is the president-elect and he will be commander-in-chief and president-elethe president imminently, and he's well aware of what u.s. policy ha been. >> trump fired back to critics

on twitter saying interesting how the u.s. sells taiwan billions of military equipment but i should not accept a congre con tkpwrapblg latorre phone call. >> on the heels of trump taking credit for saving about 1,000 jobs at one of the carrier air-conditioning plants in indiana, sarah palin who is in the run tporg v.a. secretary, calling the deal crony capitalism. and howard dean says he doesn't want his old job back and he made that message clear for those vying for the chair, including keith ellison. >> here's my promise to you. i am not going to be a candidate for the national democratic chairmanship, and i think it

could be divisive, and i have other priorities, i have a grandchild now and i am fully dedicated to support whoever the chairman is. let's go to trump tower in new york where kelly o'donnell has the latest on president-elect and the phone call that is now sending shock waves across the diplomatic world, so to speak. >> reporter: ayman, it's a call that has gotten a lot of attention. the president-elect has taken dozens of calls from leaders around the world and it's accustomed a new leader will receive calls, congratulations, talking about ways the two countries might work together in the future, and that's pretty standard business, but what donald trump did is sending the shock waves because it has been decades since a sitting president or president-elect had direct communications with the leader of taiwan, and that's what is causing the fuss because

of the complicated u.s. and china connection and it all kicked off when donald trump answered his phone. a seemingly ordinary press release reveal add land mine. something no white house has done in 35 years, talk to the president of taiwan, and the u.s. only formerly recognizes the people's republic of china, and not the sighland. >> the wrong message could be received, so he should be fully briefed by the state department before those communications. >> top trump adviser, kellyanne conway, balked at the criticism. >> president-elect trump is fully briefed and knowledgeable about the issues regardless of who is on the other end of the phone. >> trump reacted in all caps on

twitter. the president of taiwan called me. and in another he owe owe opined. >> he is having private conversations, and giving a read out here and there about them and not trying to make policy or waves. >> trump also took heat from sarah palin, who has sought a place in his administration, and he criticized to use state tax breaks to keep jobs in the u.s. and he noted the relief for hundreds of workers but slammed the plan as special interest crony capitalism. >> reporter: trump and palin have been friends but the trump transition team does not say she has been considered for the va secretary, and she has said she

is interested in the job, and it's important to note as you know so well, ayman, diplomatic relationships are measured in words and tone and a phone call may seem like no big deal but in diplomatic circles it speaks volumes, and they want to be recognized on the world stage. >> let's go to the other side of the world to beijing to see how this story is playing out in mainland china. how is china responding to the news of this call? >> reporter: until now nobody has had a clear idea of what trump's policy on china really is, and he has been threatening

tariffs, and claiming climate change is a hoax to steal jobs, and this is interpreted as a challenge to beijing where the leadership accepted the status quo in washington and they are blaming taiwan, calling it a petty act on their part, but at this stage they are saying only officially that no -- it will tolerate no country that has any official relations or thinks it can have official relations with taiwan. >> do you get a sense of the reaction coming out of beijing they are writing it off to a newcomers mistake that he may not have had a standing protocol or do you think it could have been a calculated message that donald trump is sending to the chinese it's not business as usual anymore when it comes to the issue of taiwan? >> reporter: taiwan is always a sensitive issue here. beijing has considered it a

province of the mainland. we can't overlook the subtle detail of trump congratulating her on her win. this was a slap to the leadership in beijing that doesn't acknowledge the government this taipei, so whether there is something that trump had considered the ramifications of, it's still not clear. for now it is perhaps an affront, but if this does signal a major shift to come in u.s. and foreign policy it most likely will pose a major rift in u.s. and china relations before the trump presidency gets started. >> let's talk about what that will look like? how would it look if they signal a shift in u.s. policy? what have chinese governments said in the past to make sure that taiwan does not get recognized as a sovereign country? >> it will push the envelope.

there will be more than likely discussions happening in beijing and likely in the back channels with washington to get a clear sense of where trump might be going with this. again, they have been firm in their position that nothing changes in its one china view. this is something that the u.s. had long-followed until now. taiwan does not enjoy any formal defensive treaty, and so taiwan does to an extent depend on the united states for a degree of military protection in a region where china is increasingly flexing its military might. what the ramifications could be on u.s.-china relations or china-taiwanese relations is yet to be seen. >> thank you very much for joining us. joining me now is gabby from the washington examiner, and

kate martel from the hill. we heard from kellyanne conway at the top of the show, and on this particular issue. in your view, are we reading too much into this call or could this truly impact diplomatic relations between, you know, the united states and china two huge trading partners, and sometimes adversaries in asia? how do you see it playing out? >> i think there are a lot of questions going forward about what donald trump's policy towards china will be, and how u.s. relations with china will change under his administration, and certainly this call makes clear that he doesn't really have any standing policy right now at the moment. but you did hear the chinese foreign minister come out and say this was a petty move on behalf of taiwan's president, and he doesn't anticipate the change in the long-standing one china policy in the u.s. government, and that's reassuring but donald trump has

questions to answer and so does kellyanne conway who seemed hesitant this morning to say whether or not he has been routinely receiving the state department briefings and is current with diplomatic relations with chinese government. >> obviously we know that trump ran an unconventional campaign, so to speak, and is he setting the stage for an unconventional foreign policy, and things like breaking away from the past, and the issue with taiwan and china? do we know more about it? the tweet he sent afterwards suggested he was aware the u.s. was giving billions to taiwan and why can't we accept a phone call from a territory that we are giving military aid to. >> you are being nice calling it an unconventional campaign, and it's showing that donald trump has a different strategy towards these things, and yes, he had a

phone call with the leader of taiwan, but this is not the only thing he has done. he invited the controversial leader of the philippines to the white house next year which is another controversial move. we are seeing a shift in the way that he is handling foreign policy, and what is most striking is the tweets last night, for the diplomatic leader to tweet his complaints in all caps doesn't look like the strategy we have been doing it and the way the white house has been handling this, and are people going to step in? people on the campaign have been saying what have they been able to tell donald trump, and like gabby was saying, he has not had as many of the state department briefings, and will a lot of this shift when he gets to the white house or is this the new normal for next four years, because if it s. we are going to see a volatile next four years. >> here's part of the exchange of the harvard forum, by most

accounts are very polite, but not this year. >> i would rather lose than the way you guys did. >> no you wouldn't. >> yes. my proudest moments of her is her standing up and saying with courage and clarity in steve bannon's own words and donald trump's own words the platform they gave to sprite supremists and white nationalist and it's a very important moment -- >> do you think i ran a white campaign where -- >> it did. >> that's how you lost? >> where does the nation go from here? will these wounds heal eventually, do you think? >> i honestly think there should have been a year-long cooling-off period before this conversation took place. >> exactly. i am surprised they were able to get them all in the room so quickly after the election. >> you heard so much passion from both sides and that

exchange in particular between kellyanne conway and jen about the neo-nazi movements that did back his campaign, it does raise questions. donald trump has to give him credit, denounced these groups, and he said he has no room for them in his administration and does not intend to ever support them and he has been clear about that, but this really does illustrate how much tension there is between democrats and republicans and how divided our nation is going forward and i think that's why the current administration has been so helpful in a way in trying to encourage them to give the incoming administration the benefit of the doubt and to try and come together at least in this rough period for this country. >> i want to play this sound bite. it's from donald trump while he was in ohio during his victory

or thank you tour, and i will get your reaction to it on the back end. >> we condemn bigotry, and prejudice in all of its forms, and we denounce all of the hatred and we forcefully reject the language of exclusion and separation. we are going to come together. we have no choice, we have to, and it's better. >> you think this is going to satisfy the critics who say he needs to reach out to all americans that he's not coming out forcefully enough and condemning some of the attacks we are seeing across the country or the rhetoric we are seeing at some of the rallies being held? >> i don't think it's quite enough for him to say this in a rally, and the rally had a campaign feel rather than switching to an administration, and i don't think that something like that will change it. what is more striking to me in the same harvard postmortem, and co

cory said to blame the media, and what you can say from his rhetoric is so far, if you are not taking him at his word, what are you supposed to take? that's the issue for the media in the next four years. >> why should we take donald trump's words now, and if cory lewandowski says that -- >> yeah, that's things he might say at a cocktail party, the american people will get the idea of what you are saying, and how are you supposed to do that going forward and that's not a precedent you want to start. >> good to have both of you with us this morning, and thank you for joining us. and donald trump's first battle with congress, and it could come down to money and a fight to keep the government

open. where have we heard that before? we will talk about that next. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet?

if providing a platform for white supremacists makes me a brilliant technician i am glad to have lost -- give me a minute, david, when i am more of hillary clinton's all right speech than any other moment on the campaign -- >> wow. >> because she had the courage to stand up and i would rather loose than the way you did. >> do you think i ran a campaign with white supremacist had a platform. you are going to look at me in the face and tell me that? >> it did! >> and that was between two that

took place thursday night at harvard university. let's bring in democrat congressman of kentucky, and good to have you with us this morning. >> thank you. >> you have been a staunch clinton supporter. i want to ask your opinion, do you believe her camp truly believes trump tried to appeal to white nationalists and that's the specific reason why he won? >> i don't think he tried to appeal to white nationalists and i think he gave them a license to surface and to be very public. i think we can maybe say that's not really a stdistinction, but think if you give people a license to are complicit, and i don't think they didn't set out to disavow it, you are complicit

in it. >> and then filing a lawsuit to stop the election recount in michigan, and challenging recounts in states of wisconsin, and pennsylvania, and all states that had not voted republicans in decades to be honest. what was the turning point for trump in the three states? >> well, you know, i think -- he made a statement that has already been mentioned on your network this morning that i think in retrospect will go down as one of the most political statements in the last 20 years, and he said what do you have to lose? that evoked a lot of frustrations and a review of where people were, their own situations, and crystallized their vote, the vote decision for them. i thought it was ludicrous when he said it, but in retrospect, it was the critical statement he made and particularly in the

rust belt states where there's a lot of working class families that said, yeah, let's try something different. >> and what about the recounts? what are the point of the recounts by jill stein and being participated in by the clinton campaign, and is the clinton campaign holding out there could be any kind of change? >> i don't think so. i think this is really kau thaur sus, and i think it's good to make sure the machines are working properly but it's ultimately just a distraction. >> and you particularly warned that if ambassador john bolton is named secretary of state we should build a bomb shelter -- i

want to get your reaction. who should be picked for secretary of state? who's the most, you know, likeable person, acceptable person for the democrats? what is your take on trump's defense of general james mattis? >> by all analysis, general mattis is a very capable person. the question is whether somebody with his background is equipped to manage $600 billion plus budget in a wide-ranging department. i don't know what kind of management skills he has at that level. as for secretary of state, of a you will the people being mentioned, i think mitt romney is clearly the most capable. you know what you saw yesterday is an example of why you need very measured stable people in that role as secretary ofstate. what donald trump did yesterday in talking to the taiwanese president is the kind of loose-cannon behavior that has

gotten the world very shaky, and right now the only people around him are political operatives and not policy people, and he needs to get experienced savvy policy people or he will make mistakes. >> would you just as a member of congress, would you be concerned about a former general serving as the head -- obviously he's now a civilian, but not within the duration of the seven-year waiver window, do you think he should get confirmed and be granted that waiver to serve? >> apparently we in the house get to vote on the waiver, and right now i would not vote to support the waiver, and i theut restriction of seven years is in place for very sound reasons. again, somebody without the kind of management skill that you have to have to run that department, you don't necessarily get that in the position of general, and you are

certainly managing it in one respect, but you are not managing, again, $600 billion a year, and i would like to see somebody with management experience. >> what do you expect to be the biggest budget fights with donald trump going ahead? >> the biggest trump will be the republican plans to privatize medicare and turn medicare back into a private insurance situation where senior citizens are going to have to negotiate with insurance companies over whether their prescriptions of filled, and democrats will fiercely oppose it, and i debated paul ryan about that when he was on the budget committee and i look forward to that fight. it's really dangerous what they are attempting to do. >> sir, thank you very much for getting up and joining us this morning. thank you r your time. >> thank you, and m pleasure. the threat of climate change. donald trump doesn't buy it, believe it or not.

how trump can quickly unravel efforts to combat global warming.

welcome back, everybody. i am ayman mohyeldin at msnbc world headquarters in new york. at the half hour mark, this is what we are monitoring. firefighters at oakland just put out a fire at a warehouse and some people may have died. firefighters managed to get inside the building to battle the fire but had to exit because of dangerous conditions. we will keep on top of this story and bring you all the updates throughout the course of the day here on msnbc. disturbing images there. now to the environment in the article that says a total roll back of environmental policies may not be easy of the incoming president. joining me now, the author of the piece, chuck mccutchen. let's talk about what you wrote,

when is the power plan the emissions and clean water will pb the hardest for trump to undo? >> you have to look at regulations in three broad different categories. the one that were enacted before last spring and the once enacted since spring and now what obama administration is trying to get done before trump takes office in january, and the wetlands role fall into the first category, and they have been in place, and while i say it's not passable to undo them by any stretch of the imagination, they are the more difficult ones to undo compared to other more recently enacted regulations. >> how critical are these two to the issue of global climate change and fighting it? >> the obama administration and the supporters of the clean power plant would argue it's

very significant and industry would argue that it's imposing a needless onerous burden and it's not the federal government's responsibility and this is the subject of a lawsuit which is ongoing right now in the d.c. circuit court of appeals and that's one policy they could rule in favor of trump's policies and positions on this, and he can basically just do nothing with that, or if they rule in favor of the obama administration, it could go all the way to the supreme court, and of course he is trying to get a ninth justice on the supreme court and they could overturn it. my point was to say he can't just simply do things that are this big ticket through simply a stroke of a pen. >> let me talk about the epa and some choices that might be picked by donald trump, and oklahoma attorney general, scott pruitt, and regulator kathleen

white, and what do these two choices tell you about trump's plans for the agency going forward? >> both have been very outspoken, particularly about the clean power plant and the wetlands rule, but the clean power plant, scottruitt has been a leader in immobilizing the attorneys general in blocking the implementation of the rule. he has focused more on the lef legality more than the science, and kathleen has really looked at the legality and the science and you are starting to see mobilization by people -- democrats against them, and it will be a really interesting battle. obviously democrats can't fight every single cabinet nominee -- >> yeah, you have to pick and choose. >> yeah, they will have to pick their battles. exactly. that's something they will have to decide depended on who is

selected and pruitt is not as well known i don't think in washington circles, so that could be a plus or minus in terms of trying to depict him of being quote or unquote anti-environment. >> chuck, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you for having me. played a key role in helping donald trump win the presidency, and what jared kushner understood that some did not, and what role he might play going forward.

as a supervisor at pg&e, it's my job to protect public safety, keeping the power lines clear, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california.

new insight today into trump's son-in-law, the 35-year-old played an instrumental role organizing and leading donald trump's campaign, but little is known about the man married to ivanka trump, and he rarely speaks to the press and comes from wealth and works in real estate.

joining me is a journalist that works with "forbes" and scored an interview that is now out on the stands. let's talk about what you learned about jared kushner, what is his moral campus that advises him going forward. >> he comes from a big democratic family and helped to run the republican campaign and he was working with chris christie, somebody that had his dad prosecuted when he was growing up, and he believes in trump and he said there's a lot of public opinion about donald and his administration and he said i know the man and am in it all the way and he really believes in the trump ticket. >> there has been controversy where he will end up when the trump becomes president, and he will be on the outside who advises the president regularly. talk to us about that dynic and where he perhaps wants to

end up? >> i don't think anybody knows, including him right now, and there were the nepotism laws enacted after kennedy, so i don't know if he can legally do that, and the trump campaign, a lot were outsiders, and they were not looking at it to make a career, and he's the ceo of a billion-dollar real estate party, and he had a professional relationship with trump before this, and he doesn't need that $170,000 cabinet salary, and he doesn't need the money and there's no loss stopping trump from asking advice so he will always have donald's ear whether he's an official in the white house or still running his multi-billion empire, and just pick up the phone and he will be very influential. in the story i talked to murdoch, and he said jared will be in the white house.

>> he had an impact on political campaigns and how they have been run. talk to us about how you see him revolutionizing campaigns, and he's definitely left a lasting impact on campaigns going forward? >> he ran it like a technology startup. it's a scrappy insurgency going against a well-funded machine, and there was no expertise or old way of doing things, and donald trump was such a radical new candidate, nobody has seen anything like this before and his campaign was built for that, and they moved fast and broke things and if something didn't work they will kill it fast and if something worked they will scale it, and there was no ego involved, and they went after the electoral votes and each electoral vote is worth the same amount of money but they realized they cost different things in different places, and he went after the cheap ones. >> let me ask you about the

relationship between jared kushner and chris christie. he said governor and christie and i decided this election was bigger than any difference in the past, and the media speculated in a lot of different things, and since i don't talk to the press, they go as they go, and i was not pushing him out or his people. do you believe that? >> i am not sure. he did work with him for six months, and it's such a saw tkuduc duck -- seductive story, and the bridge gate scandal would tarnish the administration to start, and donald trump makes the decisions, and he's the ceo and he put pence in charge and pence is running things, and he said that's all unfounded while it's a great story to tell, and it's always going to be a he said she said, and he said he

had nothing to do with it. >> great on the scoop. >> thank you for having me. appreciate it. really good chemistry or dinner talk? what specifically the president-elect and mitt romney talked about this week. we will ask the press secretary about the whole scene. and at the top of the hour on "am joy," why dean howard decided to with draw from the dnc race. many people clean their dentures with toothpaste or plain water. and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria

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there's a scene in "pretty women" where richard gere goes up to the salesmen and says we need a little sucking up here, okay. you have never ever in your career seen a serious adult who is wealthy, independent, has been a presidential nominee suck up at the rate of mitt romney is sucking up. >> ouch. that's former house speaker, newt gingrich, talking about mitt romney.

let's bring in the former press secretary for romney in 2012. curious to get your reaction to with a we just heard from the dinner scene? >> i think romney is seriously being considered for the position, and donald trump wanted to spend time with him and they were at odds during the campaign, and they were trying to get to know each other and see if it's a good fit, and it's the president-elect's decision to appoint somebody for the job and he was sounding romney out. >> why do you think newt gingrich dislikes romney so much? >> well, romney and gingrich both ran from president, and there may be lingering feelings from that 2012 primary, but, you know, i -- he was able to put aside those feelings during the

general election in 2012, and if romney was able to be appointed i think he would be able to get beyond it. >> do you think he would be a good secretary of state? >> i think he would be a great secretary of state, and he is somebody that i think would make a lot of people happy in that position because he is somebody of an even keel temperament that understands global affairs and would serve this president well. >> what experience does mitt romney have? what about if there was something on russia that mitt romney disagrees with trump on, and we have seen that? >> he will follow his lead. governor romney is somebody that studies the issue closely and he's a businessman and travelled the world and worked in foreign companies, and he served in the olympics, and he made it a huge success. he is known across the word from

his campaign for president and would do an excellent job in that position. >> we will have to leave it at that. ryan williams, thank you. did the trump campaign appeal to white nationalists to win the campaign? that's coming up next.

donald trump kicked off his thank you tour and laid out his plans for his time in office. >> we will build new roads, tunnels, bridges, roads, airports, schools and hospitals, including major projects in the inner cities. there's such potential in the inner cities. we're not using our potential. remember when i would make the speeches, i'd say, what the hell do you have to lose? the african-american community bass so great to me in this

election. >> let's bring in dr. james peterson, director at lehigh university and an msnbc contributor. great to have you with us. >> thank you. >> let me get your reaction to what donald trump is saying here. what do you make of it? . >> well, it rings a little bit disingenuous. 13% of african-american voters voted for donald trump. there were way more black men that voted for donald trump than women. but that certainly did help him out in terms of winning the election. >> trump's been accused before of conflating inner cities with african-americans. do you agree that he does that sometimes, that he uses the problems of the inner cities communities and just a blanket generalization of all african-american needs across this country? what does that mean for his policies, particularly ones that might impact black americans? >> right. so this is tremendously problematic. now, donald trump's not the first person to use urban or

inner city as a euphamism for african-americans but when do you that and sort of have politicians and policy makers that think that way, you can't develop the sort of effective policies to serve the community, right? if you believe that all african-americans believe in inner city america, there is no way that you can create and draft policy that he is nuance enough to direct the issues and needs of the community across the nation. another problem with that is when you sort of paint with that broad brush, it invites certain types of stereotypes and that has led to very dangerous policies. when you think about health care reform and access to health care, you can't paint with those broad brushes and euphamism

leads to bad policy. >> on thursday at harvard, hillary clinton's communications director, jennifer palmieri, accused the trump campaign of playing to white supremacists, essentially helping him get to the 270 electoral college vote threshold. do you think that's true? >> eamon, there's no question about this. president-elect trump launched his campaign on a very sort of profound anti-immigrant sentiment. over the course of the campaign, he talks about a full muslim ban throughout the campaign he sort of pandered to the so-called alt-right and as soon as he's in a position to make powerful decisions, he appoints steve bannon. his selection for attorney general is jeff sessions. you do not have to look far to understand the ways in which the trump campaign and now the trump

transition team has not just been pandering to what folks are referring to as the white-alt or nationalists, they have them involved in the messaging involved in the campaign. we should understand the strategy for what it is because that's the only way for to us do two things. number one, realize white nationalism and white supremacy is a feature of the american voting demographic but then, two, how do we address those things and excavate that hate and bring it out to the fore and be able to address it in a way that resolves it. there's no path forward where white nationalism and racism is the future of american politics. speaker of the house paul ryan called comments the textbook definition. take a listen to paul ryan here. >> you called donald trump a

racist. >> no, i didn't. i said his comment was. >> uh-huh. i'm not sure there's a great deal of daylight between those two definitions but he definitely called you ineffective and disloyal. have you patched it up? >> yeah, we have. we're fine. we're not looking back. we're looking forward. >> do you think that's a fair distinction to make? do you think paul ryan is back peddling by saying i'm not calling him a racist but his comments were racist? >> speaker ryan has to back peddle as they deal with the responsibility of being in control of all of american government at this point in time but the reality is, no, i don't draw a line between someone speaking racist rhetoric ideas or discourses and those folks being racist because whether or not they actually in their heart feel some sense of racism, the promotion of racist ideology feeds the beast of racism. so that is contributing to what racism is. i don't think we can make those distinctions. speaker ryan has to because a lot of political negotiation has to go on between him and

president-elect trump. >> thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you, eamon. up next, the problem with donald trump's billionaire's club. joy reid will talk about how running a government is not the same as running a business. that's next.

one of the wonderful -- it's like earning catal. you asked do i feel free let me put it to you this way. i earned capital in the campaign and now i intend to spend it. it is my style. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." two days after winning the 2004 election, leaving many in the democratic party utterly shattered, president george w. bush talked about how he wanted to cash in on the