good day, i'm ari melber. donald trump off to a bumpy start with one of the largest nations in the world. trump responded to criticism of his business conflicts by promising a new approach on december 15th. is it enough on substance? we'll cut through the hype with an ethics expert. mounting outrage after the man who admitted to killing former nfl player joe mcknight in a road rage incident is still walking the streets.

the local police chief says it's possible this shooting was justified. today, new information on another road rage incident involving that gunman. did donald trump boldly challenge decades of tensions with china or get punked by taiwan? the u.s. does not conduct formal diplomacy with taiwan that. was part of a carefully arranged deal struck by the nixon administration and maintained since the 1970s. donald trump says he took a congratulatory call from the taiwanese president which chinese view as a ploy by taiwan to lure the president-elect into a diplomatic breach. china's foreign minister even dubbing it a little trick. trump immediately dug in on the issue saying the u.s. sells military equipment to taiwan so he ought to be able to talk a phone call. trump's response raises the question of who he's just

doubling down on a kind of improvisational or accidental foreign policy. while the long-term diplomatic problem from the call is unclear, we've got this covered from all angles. we'll start at the white house. what is their view? will it be possible to ascertain whether donald trump is disrupting things on purpose or fumbling his way into a huge diplomatic change? >> that depends how good your sourcing is up there in trump tower in new york. to the larger question whether or not it's a change in policy, the white house is insisting, no. there is no change in policy towards taiwan. you read that statement and heard that from the nsc. there is going to be a change in policy because there is a new administration coming to town. the white house reiterating their current policy doesn't

really shed a whole lot of light on what trump is either intentionally or perhaps mistakingly trying to do with taiwan. here is another thing to consider when we look at the white house's response to this. the white house, the state department, defense, they are at pains to try to make this transition as smooth as possible. they are bending over backwards to indicate they are trying to help. the accidental diplomacy, you remember when john kerry made that hint about maybe the russians helped take out all the chemical weapons out of syria, you could have the red line of void? clearly the state department didn't intend that to be taken seriously but the foreign minister of russia seized upon that. you had a deal and a deal that avoided a conflict. that's my defense. >> let's briefly play that out and get the latest from trump tower. what would a positive outcome look like according to your

sources there in the current u.s. administration? what could come of this that would be positive? >> no one is affirmatively sharing any information on what they think the benefits of this will be. they are trying to maintain and contain the damage they think potentially could be done by really upending almost four decades of china policy. this idea you're not going to have direct communication with taiwan. it was just a year ago, and this is where trump is correct, it was just a year ago weapon sales were approve at $1.68 billion. there is a lot of weapon sales back and forth. >> hans nichols at the white house, thanks so much. kelly o'donnell, you can help us. the criticism here, the allegation, is that donald trump wasn't well informed enough and he and his team got punked. what are you hearing? >> it is certain the taiwanese are seizing upon this as a way to say they are already building a relationship with the next

president. they are using it for their benefit. so have some of the other world leaders when we heard about phone calls donald trump's made. there have been dozens. the trump side argue he has been briefed and these are planned calls decided upon by the group of people behind the scenes part of his transition. he has a businessman's perspective on china. talks about china a lot. certainly during the campaign phase and going forward. did he fully understand what a phone call could do? that it could be ricochetting around the world creating uncertainty and criticism and his allies saying this is the kind of donald trump new leadership where we will put as a country as important as china on notice a bit? so they are looking at this from a range of angles. but today things are quiet at trump tower taking a down day. we don't have new comment from him, but we await the next tweet. >> we do. i used to work for a u.s. senator.

the first bullet on the page in the briefing is the most important. in this scenario, if you were briefing this call, the first bullet would say to the principal, if you do this call it would be the first one since 1979 when we had apartmental head of state, president-elect talk to taiwan. after that, if you do the call, here is what you talk about. do we have any reporting or reason to believe they grasped the enormity of this ship whether they wanted to make it or not? >> the state department with all their career experts are available for the new president. typically you would have someone from the state department briefing on this, even participating in the call, being present. we have no indication any of that has happened. is trump being briefed? they say he is. the nature of those briefings, what they specifically contain? we don't know. it would suggest that top bullet point was there and ignored and consciously challenged or perhaps this was a let's test

this out and see what happens. we don't know yet. >> improv is great in jazz. we'll find out how it works here. thank you as always. amid this significant breach in diplomatic tradition, the president-elect deciding who would be in charge of all the diplomacy. secretary of state, one of the critical intel posts that remains unfilled. philip, as a run voice here, i'll give you first crack at all of this. a, anything you think about what we were just discussing with taiwan? and b, how the secretary of state pick figures in if you have the president making major diplomatic decisions before he even fills that post? >> i'm no diplomat, but i am a strategist. i look back at what happened over the last 24 hours.

you guys are talking checkers. he's playing chess. there's been a paradigm shift since the election. this is the way trump is going to work. he's changing the way politics works. he's changing how the world stage is going to work. he's been talking for months about trade in china and about being a stronger leader around the world. this is what he's doing. he's laying that foundation. >> what is he doing? the counterargument that would be if you want to pick a fight with china, which is the largest population country in the world and a major power, do you want to think about what helps the united states in that fight? do you want to pick a fight over jobs or trade? or do you want to spend time and political capital and dlomac energy over changing what was a republican-negotiated position with taiwan. why would this be the first fight with china if you're doing it deliberately? >> he didn't say trade. i think he's laying a foundation for negotiation down the line and laying down a marker. frankly, that's what republicans

wanted for a long time. not that specific incident of what he did, but he's laying down a marker saying this is the way i'm going to work things. people come to my side and starting a negotiation position. it's a chess move. i don't understand why people don't see that. >> that is one view of it. jeannie, i want to move forward on the secretary of state piece. take a look at the people still in the running. we heard bob corker, rudy jewel annie, david petraeus, mitt romney. these are the big names. then there was some leaking and discussion of other folks, former exxon ceo. what do you think this tells us? >> the call to taiwan you were just talking about makes me wonder if mitt romney could ever work with donald trump and vice versa. we know they ate together last week and mitt romney was effusive in his praise of donald trump afterwards, borrowing the phrase they had good chemistry

together. how would mitt romney finesse a call like donald trump made to taiwan? i still have a tough time believing we'll see a mitt romney pick. i think his best and safest bet would be somebody like a bob corker. of course as we've seen with the taiwan call, there is nothing about donald trump that says he is going to play it safe or do anything expected. we could see somebody like a david petraeus or rudy giuliani, both of whom would have a tough time going before the senate and getting confirmation. giuliani because of his foreign business connections and david petraeus because he was found guilty of the same thing donald trump accused hillary clinton of doing. donald trump is setting these people up for an uphill battle as they go on the hill to fight for confirmation. they are one of the four jason miller suggested the other day still in the running. >> we have reports while the president gets a daily intelligence briefing and that's offered to the president election, donald trump only got

it three times since his election. do you thing that is cause for concern or another area where he could do things differently? >> he's going to do things differently. it makes it more important who becomes secretary of state when you have a president who said he is going to outsource much of these decisions to his staff. he made a case what is great about donald trump is he knows how to hire and fire. he said he will choose the best and leave them off and running. the fact he is getting just three times when most president-elects get them daily is another sign donald trump wasn't kidding when he said he was going to choose the best and allow them to do his bidding for him. he wasn't going to be intimately solved in the day-to-day abtivities. it is a real source of concern for people in the intelligence arena. >> thank you both. we leave it there for now. we have important breaking news from oakland, california. at least nine people were killed in this wear who is fire. we are told that number could go

much higher. we'll keep an eye on where they are setting up for a news conference and bring that to you live. police saying the suspect who admitted to shooting former nfl player know mcknight was involved in a separate road rage incident. he is free on the streets based on police saying they need more time to investigate this. why his controversy is brewing. a live report from louisiana on the latest in that case. that goes beyond assuming ingredients are safe... to knowing they are. going beyond expectations... because our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food.

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>> there's still a lot of the building that needs to be searched, and as we continue to search the building, i pray that our fatality count does not go up, but i believe that there is a potential for it, too. >> msnbc scott cohn live on the scene in oakland. what can you tell us, scott? >> the building is still smoldering. that's part of the problem. they are able to get in there to figure out what went on. we've seen federal officials on the scene as well. we know nine people are dead, 25 unaccounted for and alameda

county sheriff's spokesman, the coroner's office saying they are preparing for a mass casualty event here. there could be more. they are trying to get word out to people that may have been in the building, people not only from the local area, but across the country and foreign nationals in the building. it's been described as an artist colony, basically. an event space, people live there. 24 hour situation. there was a party last night. all the authorities can say is they are still trying to render it safe. roof collapsed on to the second floor. they are trying to sort out what's been going on. we will bring that to you as we get it. >> it looks horrific and still unfolding. we don't know how many people were hurt or killed.

what are they saying about this warehouse event? this is formal or a casual gathering or some business or facility operating the party? >> they haven't gone that far. partly the reason is they haven't gotten in to see it. it's not been safe to go in to figure out what's been going on. they haven't been willing to venture what exactly was the landscape in there. we know there was a party scheduled for last night. there was another event possibly going on as well. people who live there full-time, but what caused the fire, they're just not there yet because the building has not been safe to get into. >> scott cohn, thank you for your report. dozens of people gathering in tarrytown, louisiana, for a vigil in memory of former nfl player joel mcknight at the intersection where mcknight was killed in a road rage incident that occurred thursday.

people are demanding answers to why the man police say did admit to shooting mcknight to death was released from police custody. no charges filed. sara o'donnell is live with the latest. what can you tell us? >> we are learning more about the man authorities say admitted to shooting and killing joe mcknight. 54-year-old ronald gasser was allegedly involved in another apparent road rage incident, another violent road rage incident at the same intersection back in 2006. the jefferson p sheriff says gasser was accused of punching another motorist several times after that motorist tried to report gasser for unsafe driving. charges in that case, we must stress, were ultimately dismissed. authorities say they are still deciding whether or not they will file charges in this case. the sheriff stressing that decision will be made after a

thorough investigation of the facts. grief, love, support pouring out for mcknight and those he left behind. we had that vigil last night. very emotional for the crowd of peaceful attendees who were there another vigil scheduled tonight at his high school gymnasium. >> sara dallof, thank you very much. >> when police typically come upon a scene where they have a confirmed violent act or homicide and a person who says they did it, was it process deciding whether to book them on the spot versus gather more evidence? >> you always continue to gather more evidence, even with a confession or admission of some kind. you always have to corroborate all those details. as the investigation unfolds, police begin to put together the fact pattern, they take all the physical evidence, they canvass

for witnesses and take the statement and put that together. the fact he hasn't been charged is rare but not unprecedented. this is done in consultation with the prosecutor's office. >> if if it were, in the view of the authorities a more clear-cut case they would book the person on something immediately? >> that is correct. if he says he had some sort of justifiable claim and able to point to that and there is no evidence to refute that, they have the person identified, he stayed at the scene, he surrendered his weapon, you can see from that one photograph he appears to be handcuffed sitting there. they'll present him to the court. >> take a listen to the sheriff talk about the shooting laws, seeming to imply there might be a justification. >> there are some relative

statutes that provide defenses s to certain crimes. for example, officers have those same defenses. so when we shoot and kill somebody, the question is it's a homicide. the question is, is it justified or not? >> what did you make of that? what does that tell us what authorities are thinking? >> seems self-defense statute. almost every criminal law across the country provides for self-defense. in this case, they obviously have a set of facts that are leaning toward that direction. probably more so than just a random act of violence. that's where the irrefutable evidence comes in. there is more in favor of the justifiable side than there is the unjustifiable side. now this they've got him identified and in consultation with the prosecutor, they said let's take a harder look and keep him free first. >> what do you say to people who

look at that and say without video or many other eye witnesses, their testimonial evidence may slant towards the living person and not the decedent. >> the living person can say whatever they want. it's incumbent to investigate and piece those things together to determine whether or not it happened the way he said it did, was he seated where he was when this event went down? what do we know from other witnesses, from the physical evidence at the scene? that has to be put together. >> thank you for your expertise. >> a pleasure. we continue to follow breaking developments out of oakland where at least nine people are dead. they fear the death toll could rise to as many as 406789. another important story. pipeline protesters in north dakota are vowing not to give up their fight. monday is the deadline approaching for them to evacuate

that protest camp. some military veterans are giving protesters their support.

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no wonder the holidays taste so good. you're looking at aerials from oakland, california. these are shots of the warehouse smoldering where nine peoe were killed late last night in this fire. officials fear the death toll could rise to as many as 406789 we've been apprised of a live update that's going to come from local officials. we're going to show that when it happens as the search continues for survivors. in another story, pledging to protect pipeline protesters in north dakota, thousands of vets making their way to the camp to account as, quote, human shields against these possible clashes between demonstrators and law enforcement. this comes as you may have heard the key deadline for protesters to leave the camp is monday. cal perry is live. this is a story that's been going for some time.

what's happening now heading into monday? >> we are seeing those veterans arrive. i think there was some question whether or not it would be thousands. it is thousands. i've seen at least a thousand arrive today. there were a thousand yesterday. we can show you one of the veterans' tents. authorities do not want to move on this camp monday. they have been very clear with us. they understand the optics of that are very bad. there was violence here a few weeks ago. they are trying to avoid that. the influx of these veterans may be a wild card. we are waiting for representative of hawaii. she is in bismark. she will come down later this afternoon to link arm in arm with the vets. the vets said, 2,000, they are going to go to the front line to protect as demonstrators call themselves water protectors. we had a statement from the energy company. what you'll notice about it, they call the demonstrators extreme environmentalists.

that's the picture that authorities are painting here of this camp. this camp is growing by the minute. you have so many different groups. you have native american tribes here, veterans that have come here, then you have just everyday americans who have seen this on tv and want to be a part of it. there's at least 10,000 people in this camp. >> cal perry, thank you. we are continuing to follow breaking developments out of oakland where nine people are dead in that warehouse fire. officials fear the death toll could reach as many as 40. up next, president-elect donald trump promised to remove himself from operating his companies, but has yet to explain how. the conflict of interest that could remain if he turns over control even to his children.

welcome back. you are looking at live pictures

here breaking developments from oakland, california. nine people now confirmed dead in that overnight fire at a warehouse party. oakland fire chief says another 25 people still unaccounted for. obviously very concerning to the community. authorities say they are going to hold a live update any minute. steve paterson has been following the latest from our los angeles newsroom. >> oakland fire chief saying 25 unaccounted for, the alameda county sheriff's department says there may be up to 40 people that may have been trapped inside that warehouse that may be casualty of this fire. they are expecting to be prepared for that many. they are prepared for a mass casualty event at this point. this fire started around 11:30 last night. they are saying upwards of 50 people were there for a concert. some party that accompanied a social gathering in that warehouse. firefighters arrived to find

that warehouse fully engulfed. this is a massive structure. this is a logistical nightmare for investigators to find some clue as to not only how this started, but trying to continue this recovery effort to find out how many victims, how many people they have lined up with the numbers that they have. that's work that's being done right now. you have 50 people in this warehouse last night. the fire breaks out, it's fast moving. the roof collapses on top of people while inside. many people were up in that second floor they find trapped and they find nine people confirmed dead. 25 unaccounted for. that doesn't mean that number is included in the missing and dead. many people may have checked into local hospitals or self-transported to get help. there is work being done through the community on facebook and twitter to confirm, to find loved ones, friends and family.

there was an initial facebook posting for this concert that was supposed to be going on. that turned into when you have a mass casualty event you see the wall with other post-it notes and missing signs. that's what this facebook posting turned into. with people checking to find any hint or clue whether or not their loved one may have been involved in that fire. work being done now through the police department, through the county. we are hearing federal people are on scene checking through this. it's taken so long for people to be able to get inside this scene. it's been structurally unsound since this started. the flaming, the smoldering has continued throughout the morning. now finally, they are able to get inside and find hint or clue as to what happened last night. >> steve paterson, thank you. turning back to washington, president-elect trump faces many

conflicts of interest based on his business empire, but the most blatant will be in the backyard of his new home on pennsylvania avenue. he is tenant and landlord at the new washington, d.c. hotel because the lease is held by the federal government, which agreed to lease that historic post office property to the trump organization. our expert on ethics law and business deals wrote a widely shared analysis outlining the conflicts, arguing the federal government must fix it. it is a case book example of the appearance of a significant conflict of interest and intolerable intermingling of trump's official governmental duties and his family's personal financial interests. professor schooner joins us now. what makes this conflict at the hotel more pressing than so many other ones. >> as we know, there's a lot of

really big problems and conflicts for the incoming president. one of the reasons it's worth focusing on this one is first it's clear, second, it's easy and third it's incredibly simple to fix. when in doubt, read the contract. no elected official shall share in the contract or benefit it from. that's the easy part. we haven't gotten to the fact if they don't there is a tremendous number of broad web of conflicts that remain and they are very, very important. >> we could put that up on the screen. you're talking about the part of the contract that says you can't have an elected official, which the president is. when they wrote that, they would argue to take trump's side of the ledger that they didn't know that was going to happen.

one party has taken an affirmative action that puts him in breach of the contract. he didn't have to run for president. to the stent he chose to run for president, he should have sat down with gsa in advance to come up with a contingency plan. there's any number of things he could have done and still do. trump could sit down with gsa tomorrow and enter into an agreement with a transfer or novate and transfer the entire contractual relationship to someone like marriott head quartered in the d.c. metropolitan area. the trump organization put no thought into dealing with this whatsoever. what is much more shocking, the gsa doesn't appear to have thought about it whatsoever. even the gsa inspector general's office appears to have had their head in the sand and ignored the train wreck coming down the tracks. >> briefly, when he says in mid december he will step away from

actively running them but still have the financial stake and benefits, is that good enough? >> no. it doesn't solve any problems whatsoever. if he hands over operations to his children, first his children are on the transition team. they're engaging with foreign dignitaries and members of congress. they have the exact same conflicts he has. that's first. second the reality is he will continue to benefit because the lease makes clear that he is still the primary benefactor of the contract. each year the trump organization is required to make a massive complicated financial disclosure to the gsa then some poor gsa employee is supposed to negotiate with the president's children. >> it's a massive conflict. experts like you might be in

increasing demand. we hope to see you again. >> thanks so much. >> thank you. after taking a victory lap for helping to keep 1,000 jobs in carrier, he is scolding a company for moving jobs to mexico. he warned any businesses thinking about moving. >> i said to some of the folks, companies are not going to leave the united states any more without consequences. not going to happen. it's not going to happen. >> funny part about that, consequences for carrier were a lot more tax breaks. their parent company isn't changing the plans to move some of those jobs to mexico. to break it down we have jared bernstein. everyone gets it, donald trump

is a communicator, a symbolic communicator, better than others may have realized throughout the course of the campaign. we are in the economic governing period. we are not in the communicating period. so put aside all the optics of that big thursday business and walk us through how significant it is for the u.s. and whether that deal is many reclicable to save 1,000 jobs. >> if they lost their jobs at carrier which pay something like $25 an hour, the likelihood they would have found jobs nearly as good as that is probably low. this is not a replicable

orscapable approach. your interest about a factory up the road, there are numerous factories like that around the carrier plant. this is a kind of globalization corporate whack-a-mole and it's not going to work. >> he said he was going to get tough but this deal was about giving extra government benefits, tax dollars from people who live in indiana, but could be anywhere in the country saying donald trump's plan is we subsidize private companies to higher/fire people. why not take the $6 million and put the directly to public works or jobs here we control? >> that's exactly right. when you listen to donald trump you hear sticks and when you see what's happening, you see carrots.

i imagine the firm was perfectly okay being yelled at once they got that check from the state of indiana. if trump's team is listening to me right now, i'm going to take my operation down to mexico and say write me a check. that might not work because i'm a critic. this is not a systemic or scaleable approach. i want to say the idea that the president should take a deep interest in the downsize of globalization, in the fact communities, families, workers have been hurt and lost their jobs to trade with low wage countries like mexico and china, that's real. you don't solve that by writing checks and bribing a couple of factories because you happen to make a campaign promise. how you do solve it, you go after the trade deficit, lift the level of productivity of the american work force and advanced manufacturing. there is a list of ideas we need

to go down. this hit-and-miss bribery ain't one of them. >> hit-and-miss bribery, tough talk, but that's what it looks like. it's the equivalent of having the president say i can sell you solar panels on the roof of your home we'll see what the prelude turns into when they are in office. we are following breaking developments out of oakland. already mourning nine people dead. we'll listen in on a news conference that is supposed to be under way. standing with me today is sergeant ray kelly, the public information officer for the alameda county sheriff's bureau. >> thank you for helping us push

out the message we need to push out to our community. we know that there are many families who are wondering if their loved one is inside this building. we are asking media please come to where we are right now, international in fruitvale and not where the families are gathering. the sheriff's office is trying to obtain information so we can identify if someone's loved one was or was not inside the building. please come here. this is a very sensitive time for our community and families. a lot of social media messaging. we are asking folks that have information and sharing it to

contact the alameda county's sheriff's bureau. there may be distinguishing marks such as tattoos, piercings, identifying marks that would help for us to identify and bring family closure. or verify the person was or was not their loved one inside the building. >> we are beginning the recovery process inside the building. the building is tricky to work. we have water coming down on top of our people. there's beams. there's wreckage and debris we have to maneuver through. we'll be working with fire to help us do that. this is not an easy task by any means. we are asking people if you have

no business at the family assistance center, do not go there. we are asking the media to respect the privacy of those families for now. the city of oakland will be releasing a statement. you will be hearing from city officials in regard to this. at this point, we are in a recovery and identification process. there a lot of unanswered questions right now. please just be patient with us. the most important thing is keeping our first responders safe. we have nine confirmed victims. we believe there are more victims. we are not going to get into the numbers game. we have numerous reports of missing persons unaccounted for

by family members. some of these folks are visitors. a lot of people are young people. when i say young people, people in their 20s to 30s. they have families outside the area. >> how deep have people been able to make it in the building? >> it's just a task to get through the front door with all the debris and wreckage that's there. any misstep could mean they get injured.

>> those were visual identification by fire and first responders in the scene able to identify nine deceased people. >> can you walk us through the process now that you're in the building? >> there will be an arson investigation, an arson task for force. that is a group of individuals from our local, state and federal agencies. i would imagine every resource available to oakland would be available to them. i'm talking high level crime lab assistance. we will be at this crime scene for days to come as we try to make sense of what happens here.

>> there is no reason yet to suspect arson. you have to work these investigations at the worst case scenario and then downgrade from there. you bring in all your experts, all your arson experts. then you narrow it down to was this an electrical issue? was this some type of other maybe pyro technic that lit a fire? were there fires burning in there? something as simple as a cigarette could cause a fire that leads to something like this. those all need to be worked out by the experts. >> the debris you were mentioning in the front, difficulty of entry you had, could that have contributed? >> we are not experts in that. any time you have a collapse of

a structure, you have fire and smoke that, can be deadly to people inside of a building. we know when there's smoke and a lot of fire and people lose direction inside of a location and that leads to events like this. we are not going to speculate on how each victim may have died. this is a tragedy and there are no easy answers right now. >> i see the records show there have been fire habitation complaints. >> right now the police department is focused on exactly your questions. there are a lot of questions that are being asked and a lot of answers we are looking to find. what is the history of the building? the occupancy of the building if there are any codes or

violations, all those things we are looking into and our city leaders will be talking about that later. currently, we are not going to find all those answers out right now. we are focused on identifying finding those who are missing, locating those who have suffered loss inside who are decreased. we are looking to bring closure to the families. all those questions about permits, calls to the location, we already started the investigation and are looking into it. right now, we are going to be very focused on the recovery, working all our agencies together, working as a city team, a city approach to find answers. they may not come today or the next couple of hours but we'll find answers. >> have you been able to talk to

party-goers? >> we have talked to folk whose have come out, individuals who were at this location and left prior to the fire or were able to get out. we'll all be working together for that information. we won't go into details about what they said. at this time i want to share with you, it is not deemed a crime scene. if it takes a different term where it deems to be a crime scene we already have our personnel working side by side with investigators as we move through this process. what i would like to do, i know you have a lot of questions.

we understand that. we want to find answers for you. right now we would like to return to the scene to see if there was additional information we could share with you. this will conclude this portion of our update. >> i want to add one thing. our local hospitals have been getting a lot of phone calls. it's really bombarding their system. people either made it out or didn't make it out. there are not a lot of injuries reported at this time. i would direct all those calls not to the hospitals but to the family assistance number we put out 510-382-3000.

>> everything we just discussed here and at the previous briefing if you were not here, we are about to send that information out. i will step over to the side and so will sergeant kelly. if you are night on our press contact list, provide us with your information. we want everyone to be informed and have the information so we collectively can message to our city and the families watching this that may be on the other side of the world or in the other state. we want to keep everyone informed. >> that will be it. we'll see you in about an hour.

we have been listening to sergeant ray kelly and oakland police public information off e officeroanna watson briefing on this horrific fire, nine killed. at one point people made it out or they didn't. i want to read the numbers provided. they emphasize use this number rather than calling local hospitals. i want to bring in steve paterson following this story out of california. what stood out to you from that briefing? >> they either made it out or didn't make it out, which is a

very definitive line here. people were calling hospitals because they hoped their loved ones had self-transported and checked in or were treated and released. to hear there is a department offive line between who made it out and who didn't this may be a mass casualty event, that number may be more consistent than we were first thinking. >> steve paterson, thank you. i know you'll continue following this story. that does it for me this hour. my colleague richard lui will pick things up after the break with more on this breaking story. you're watching msnbc. coaching means making tough choices.

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very good afternoon. i'm richard lui in new york city. breaking news we've been watching coming out of oakland, california. what we know right now is a