's biotene. and biotene also comes in a handy spray. so you can moisturize your mouth anytime, anywhere. biotene, for people who suffer from dry mouth symptoms. a very good day to you. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters in new york city. following breaking developments this hour out of oakland, california, where a massive fire broke out overe night at a two-story warehouse party. seeing pictures that k s thas t came out just this afternoon. nine people dead, there's fears the number two climb up to 40. >> you have to work these investigation from the worst case scenario and downgrade from there. >> we're very much focused on identifying those who are still missing. locating those who have suffered

loss inside who are deceased. >> we have teams covering all angles of this story. msnbc scott cohen is live on the scene for us in oakland, also nbc steve patterson following developments out of our los angeles newsroom there. i want to now first start, though, with you, scott, on this. scott, last hour you were telling me that what you had seen different, just within the last hour, is that they had brought in more tents. they had brought in more personnel, and this is because they had to wait 12 hours, 13 hours, before being able to get inside of the warehouse because the fire was so intense? >> reporter: right. the structure was hot. there were still hot spots and smoldering wreckage as you said, a good 12 hours after the fire broke out and it's also not particularly safe to walk around in there. so that was what they were dealing with. now they are in there. they are doing what has got to

be just very grim work, and we're awaiting now a news conference from libby schaaf, the mayor of oakland, who at this moment is meeting with some of the families of victims or potential victims, and you can imagine the frustration and the anguish that these people are going through. let's hear from one of those family members we heard from a short time ago. >> i'm just infuriated i can't go over there. i have my work boots on. if my brother's there, i want to find him. >> reporter: so still, really trying to get a handle on the chaos that is going on here. the first step is identifying the victims. the nine we know about, and those are based on what the firefighters saw while they were fighting the blaze last night. and then the others who are unaccounted for, and they simply don't know the answer to that. we think we may get more of that in this news conference when it

gets under way a little later on this hour. and then beyond that, is the investigation that's going on, that we know there's been a history of complaints about this building. as recently as november 14th. talk about structures that were inadequate inside, and firefighters at the scene said there was a staircase up to the second floor that was basically a makeshift staircase made of pallets. we do not know what caused the fire, but we know it was a very cluttered space, a difficult space to get out of, and we know the tragedy that ensued as a result. >> scott what do they believe, what has been discussed, if anything at all, regarding the 25 unaccounted for? do they believe that they have gone back home? that they went to medical facilities? that have not been tracked yet? how's that been discussed? >> well, there was that really disheartening announcement a while ago from sergeant ray

kelly at the alameda sheriff's department saying that family members should not go to hospitals because basically what happened was, people either got out, or they didn't. there wasn't a lot of in between. so these people that are unaccounted for, again, we think 25, it could be more, if they haven't shown up by now, it is a very difficult situation certainly for the families as time goes on, and as these people are missing and they hoped that that's all that it is that's missing, but again, what authorities said, people either got out of this or they didn't. >> i want to bring in to our conversation here thomas von essen. former new york fire department commissioner on the phone with us right now. and you may be able to see what's in front of us here, tom. some of the video that's been coming out of oakland, california. both the aftermath we're seeing here, but if we can flip to the video from the fire last night, and early this morning.

and some of the smoke coming out of the building itself. and as we were looking at this, tom, and this video right here, there is some smoke that is white. there is some on the left side as you see, some smoke that is black. what does that tell you, tom? >> well, it tells you that there was a lot of ventilation in some spots, but not everywhere. so anybody who was in those areas where you see all of that heavy smoke, they were probably killed or severely injured or trapped or, you know, just unable to move because of the smoke poisoning they were, you know, encountering. so you've got a real mix here of a very, very difficult fire, because the firefighters can't get in. and someone just mentioned a stairway made of wood palettes? i can't think of a worse thing to have a stairway made of wood palettes. if one is weak, they fall apart

and then they're fuel, also. they start to burn, people upstairs can't get down. now trying to get to windows, overcome with smoke. now the firefighters spend hours trying to put it out. look at the intensity of that fire. it's enormous. so firefighters can't get in. put an enormous amount of water in, everything starts to collapse, now you've got, just probably eight feet of ashes and water and -- mixed in that is a potential for victims. so it's just -- a nightmare for everybody concerned. parents are wondering, loved ones, wondering where their person is, and the firefighters who couldn't get it, couldn't get it done to get in there and get them out and it looks like, we don't know for sure, but it looks like it was a very unsafe and improperly handled building. >> help me understand as a lay person, me, what i'm seeing here, tom, because we see what

looks to be a concrete building here. we see different colors of smoke. we see certain heights of flames. what do you see, though, as an expert in fighting these things here? >> well, what you see is, probably a big space. then probably had partitions up there. so if the fire is roaring out, out the roof where the fire is, you see the flames. that's the easy part for the firefighters. all of those other places where the smoke is just escaping slowly out those windows that means that people are probably -- if people are trapped in there, they can't breathe. you cannot possibly survive in that environment. firefighters have a hard enough time doing with self-ka self-co breathing apparatus. this is all last night, of course pup see them venting it, trying to get more and more smoke out, somebody in the room, maybe camp a breath, get to a window, firefighters throw a ladder up.

something, depending occupy people are in the building, another 25 people in that building, it's just a horrible tragedy. because they were probably trapped and now part of the debris, i would think. >> one of the potential numbers early on here, tom, is that it's up to 100 at least, and then at the moment, the numbers we've got, though, is that there are nine killed, 25 unaccounted for. they're not sure at this moment where those individuals are in this fire that happened in a warehouse district in an area that is, oh, about five or ten mitts there from san francisco, california. but lots of structures actually similar to this in this oakland, california, area, what's called west oakland. i want to get your perspective on the structure itself being concrete and these windows being mailed of steel. we'll do that right after this

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we're following breaking news out of oakland, california, where it's about 2:12 local time. you're looking at a group of microphones close to the location of a warehouse fire that happened overnight that killed at least nine. we expect the mayor of oakland to give us new details, potentially on what has happened. the big question is -- 25 unaccounted for at the moment. they believe that up to 100 individuals or more could have been in a structure that was engulfed in flames overnight, and just within the last several hours really responders were able to get inside that structure that you see on the left, and, again, that was last night in oakland, california, just about ten minutes away from

san francisco, california. and i want to get now more information on what we are seeing in these pictures that were happening overnight and then the pictures from today that you see on the left-hand side of your screen. tom van essen, it was formerly, the fire commissioner in new york city, on the phone with us still. thanks for staying with us, tom. the question i wanted to ask is, as we were looking at the pictures from last night, and the fire coming out, it is basically an enclosed impervious structure, it looks like, made of concrete, steel-based windows. does that help or hurt in the process as firefighters try to put out that fire inside? it looks like it's operating like an oven almost? >> well, i mean, it's kind of not a factor to the firefighters. >> okay. >> what's the factor that they're concerned about is the

interior. the interior's all wood. so once the fire, the whole objective of saving lives is to get there quickly and put the fire out quickly and get the people out quickly. it's all about time. they were unable to do any of that. they couldn't put it out. they couldn't get the people out and now what you've got is after hours and hours and hours of heavy, heavy fire, that whole top has collapsed. and that's all a wood structure. i mean, there are steel beams going across, but it's all wood. the roof is all wood. the material on top of the roof is all flammable. that all burns after hours and hours of fire nap all collapses. steel stays up, that's why you've got the concrete walls still in place and the whole thing all collapses. and now they've got to get in there and two floors of rubble that's probably down in the basement and unfortunately it's going to be mixed with potentially victims which is the horrible part of going through it. >> look at the steel force, and you yes, they are hoping that

they find few or none, and we may get more information as we wait for the mayor of oakland to come to the microphones on the right-hand side of the screen. on the left-hand side we're seeing some steel bent. i don't know if it was because of the heat or not. we see other steel, at least when we look at the roof structure that is still in place. what do the aftermath pictures tell you, tom? >> well, it tells me there was a tremendous amount of fire and the guys couldn't put it out. they never want to put fires out from the outside. they want to get in there, get to the feed of the fire and put water on it. they were unable to do that. now you've got to put water through windows, through a hole in the roof. you're not reaching the fire. all you're doing is putting water in there. hopefully the water will pool up and put some of the fire out. it's just the opposite way that you prefer to fight a fire. but you have no choice. you can't get up the stairwell. there's too much potential and they were right by not putting

guys in the building. look at that. the whole roof is gone. you don't want to put firefighters into that top floor and lose firefighters. luckily they couldn't get in there otherwise they probably would have take than risk to get those people out. it's just a very, very difficult operation for these guys. >> the firefighters, as we know, something you know well, fire commissioner in new york on 9/11, that you know, fearless. and in this case, potentially going inside trying to fight this fire. but the question i had earlier about this being a concrete structure, and also when you look at the roof composition and i don't know what it is and you probably know better here, tom. does it make it easier when it is made of wood so you can break through, so you can get that water inside that you're talking about but when it's concrete, at least the sides are, that it makes it more difficult for you, as a professional here? >> i don't think so. >> okay. >> because -- that's not how you fight fire. you don't put a hole in the side

of the building in a wood building and stick a hose in it. they're able to go through the windows. the windows are, have access and, you know, fortunately had to go through the roof with tower ladders and everything else. they couldn't do it the best way they know how. that is go up the stairwell, find the kitchen or the stage, wherever the fire started and put it out. so after hours and hours and hours this is what you've got. >> tom, stand by for us, because we want to get more of your perspective on what happened. you asked the question earlier about the numbers, and it could have been up to 100. so stand by, if you can for us, tom. we're also waiting for the microphones on the right-hand side. watching this breaking story, although we do see some action on the right-hand side, what i was going to say is, that we're watching another fire coming out of cambridge, massachusetts. ten alarms. some video there. seven to eight injuries. we've got an eye on that.

ten alarm fire in massachusetts. that is ongoing. let's now bring in steve patterson in los angeles. and, steve, as we look at not only the fire in cambridge, we also have what's happening in oakland, california. you've been watching some of the reaction, which has been happening digitally as the big question that's overhanging for families and for all of those watching with us this afternoon. it's, where are those 25 unaccounted for, and the loss of those nine souls during the fire when we can see here as the mayor will be speaking very shortly on the microphone on the right-hand side. so we may need to cut in on you, but, steve, please, go ahead. >> the big question all morning, afternoon and now on into the evening, who are the these 25 people? where are they? have they checked in to local

hospitals? have they been checking in on social media? are they somewhere in that facility? so one of the things we were watching when this all unfolded is the fact that this party, this concert, this gathering, was first announced on social media on facebook. there was a posting in which the people who were putting this on put it on social media and since then we've been watching that thread. it's heartbreaking. because it's really turned into a message board for people trying to search for their loved ones. for people who haven't had any touch with those that are missing. maybe in that 25 to 40 who we don't know where they are. and so you see heartbreaking messages, like, my niece, my daughter -- >> steve, stand by. the mayor of oakland just started. let's listen in. >> we have important information we'd like to share with you. the speaksers you'll are hearing from, i'd like to go down the list. speak up a little bit. can you hear me now, sir? okay. the city of oakland, oakland

mayor shchaaf, oakland fire department chief reed and deputy chief hoffman, sergeant ray kelly who is to my left, with the alameda county sheriff's office, coroner's bureau and we have other city, not only leaders but services that are here on stage with us today from the city administrator to the chief of police to the red cross to building division for the city of oakland. we have a lot of new faces, and our media, our guests today so we would ask you identify who you are and which media agency you are with when it comes to question time, but please allow you to provide us with information and then we will have question time and expect questions from you. so, please allow us to

facilitate it at this time i'm going to turn it over to mayor schaaf. >> this morning a terrible tragedy took place in a space, in a building, that is permitted as a warehouse. now, i've spent my morning doing what is our priority, and that is focusing on the families of their loved ones that are waiting to hear information and waiting for us to address this very complicated and devastating scene. i want to thank all of our first responders, who are on the scene and have been working so hard, and we are so thankful for the cooperation, particularly particular alameda county as well as our federal partners, and not just responding to this scene, but joining us in what is

going to be a very thorough and methodical investigation. so that we can discern what, in fact, happened. now, we are going to ask the public's patience as we do that. this is a devastating scene. this is complicated and it is going to take us time to do the methodical, thorough and professional investigation that these families deserve to find out what, in fact, happened, as well as to focus humanely and compassionately on addressing the victims, and working to identify them and get that information first to their families. all right. i know that you're going to have a lot of questions. we are here with some initial information, but we ask for you

to respect that we will have additional information each day. and that we are going to be very respectful of the families that deserve to know first. and so we expect to continue to be in touch with you over the next few days after what the investigation unfolds and to continue to answer the questions that you bring to us. i do also want people to know that if they are interested in making contributions to support the victims' families, our own oakland a's have set up a site and are mamatching up to 20,000 donations at youcare.com/oaklandfirevictims. we thank the oakland a's and the very compassionate people of this city that want to wrap their arms around the family member whose lost loved ones in this hoar risk fire last night. with that i'm going to introduce our fire chief, chief theresa

deloesch reed. >> good afternoon. last night december 2nd, a third alarm was called at approximately 11:30 for 1315 3shgs 1 31st avenue. at this time we identified nine fatalities and are in the process of recovering and identifying those victims. we're also in the process of identifying if there are other victims associated with this fire. i'd like to turn it over to the incident commander, deputy chief mark hoffman, to give you more information in regards to the incident and the recovery efforts. >> as mentioned, we, last night, found nine faalitie alitfatalit structure. working with the oakland sheriff's department, police

department, alcohol tobacco and fire agents, alameda county search and rescue and the red dross secure the scene and to continue recovery efforts and conduct the investigation into the causes of the deadly fire. at this time we are shoring up the building to make sure it's safe to enter and continue the recovery effort. as we previously reported, the roof of the building chanced on to the second floor, which also in many areas collapsed on to the first floor, further complicating our ability to continue the recovery effort. we will bring information to you through the opd, pio office as we have it. >> thank you, deputy chief. i'd like to turn it over at this time to sergeant ray kelly, who is with the alameda county sheriff's department coroner's bureau. he can update you where they are right now regarding the search and the recovery. sir? >> so we have begun the search.

we will to actually stop to shore up the building, because when we went in there, we began to see some of the walls and some of the structure move. so we had to pull our people out. at this time we've only been able to recover one decedent from that scene. so this is going to be a slow process for us. we are anticipating being out here for a minimum of the next 48 hours. so we will be at this scene, the scene will remain active until it's entirely searched and gone through. and in addition to that we have our family assistance center that is up. it is, was put together on the spur of the moment. it's now functioning much more fishtd l efficiently and we're getting to talk to families and getting information to them they need. the mayor spent a lot of time with those families, and we're doing everything we can. this is a very difficult situation. not only for the community but for our first responders. >> before we open it up for

questions, or ask to the media, please, push our message out as far as you can. we have a lot of social media platforms exchanging and sharing information. which we always encourage, but we'd like to direct that information to the alameda county coroner's bureau, because they have a master list they're working with, and we want to take that information and share it with them to ensure and notify families whether their loved one was or was not here. looking at everything from distinguishing marks such as tattoos, piercings, maybe photos from families. not all families are from this area. they're out of state and as indicated earlier, international as well. so, please, help us with helping the families and our community as we move through this investigation, as we find answers, and as we heal as a community and help the families heal. at this time we'll certainly open it up for questions.

>> sergeant kelly -- >> let's start right here. you, sir. go ahead. >> how many exits were in this building? >> i will certainly refer to the fire department, but, sir, let me just preface this. there are a lot of questions that will be asked we will not be able to share the information, because the roof fell on to the second story as sergeant kelly indicated, the second story did collapse into the first story in some portions. so that can be very, very difficult, but i would certainly ask the fire department. i don't know if we're prepared noor answer yet. can we hold on. let me see if -- let me see if i just can answer his question about how many exits? do you -- would you like to step up and -- two exits, sir. located at the building. a question? >> [ inaudible ] investigation for -- >> the oakland police department is working with the city and also working with the fire department about future

investigations. how many calls have been to this location, whether it's been police or fire, or the city. so all of those questions will come out. right now we want to focus on the recovery. we want to focus on identifying any of the victims. we want to work with the families. that's our main focus. but we will work towards those questions such as, was this building under investigation? was this building ever fined? what is the condition as far as permits, housing, all of those questions will be answered in due time, but right now we want to stay focused on the recovery and working with the families. yes, sir? >> two questions. first for sergeant kelly. you said one body has been recovered. do we know if that necessarily is one of the nine people that you are aware of? or could that have been, like, a tenth -- someone in addition? >> look, this is one of many bodies that we will be recovering. okay? we will to stop operations, because the building is so

unsafe making our job very, very hard. but it's andes answer and respect for our victims and doing this right and doing it right for the families. doing it right for our staff so they're safe in there. so that's what our priority is, and we don't care how long it takes, we will be here as long as it takes to get that job done. >> my second question -- >> have you resumed the operation? >> my second question i want to know. i know you want us to focus on the victims and everything and what happened, at the same time, it's very simple to basically tell us whether this building was under investigation? that's a very simple thing -- >> very important that we share the information that we have with you. so i think -- darin -- needs to come up. we'll have him come up. okay? >> thank you very much. i appreciate that. >> good afternoon, darin reni leti. the last designated use of the

property was as a warehouse. we received's recent complaints about lights and unpermitted construction at the property. we had opened an investigation and that investigation is ongoing. as we learn more we will certainly release that information. >> any violations you determined already? >> there was an inspection of the property and we were able to confirm blight at the property and are still investigating the allegations of unpermitted construction at the structure. >> was the -- >> extra -- >> and [ inaudible ]. >> the -- >> the -- that opened on november 13th. >> and [ inaudible ] warehouse -- [ inaudible ]. >> again, the last permitted legal use was a warehouse. we have reports that people were living, but, again, we're still trying to investigation and confirm whether there actually were people living in the structure. >> and can you just explain for people what light means? external --

>> sure. there was a complaint that there was blight in the adjacent vacant lot which is owned by the same property owner. debris, garbage and trash. we were able to confirm that those violations were accurate. regarding the illegal construction, that was for interior construction within the building itself. >> and inspectors -- getting inside -- >> if we can hold on. if we can hold on. let's take one question at the time. >> the building has -- the building permitted as a warehouse, are people allowed to live there? >> permits would be needed for people to live in the building and those permits had not been issued. >> okay. >> a chance to get inside the building? have you had a chance to get inside the building add part of your investigation? >> no. we had an inspector attempt to enter the building and at that time was not able to secure access to the building, and so that investigation hadn't concluded and was still underway. >> and what about this is

"today" on nbc -- [ inaudible ]. >> that was on november 17th. >> and people would not undergo current permits allowed to live there, would the parties, rave events, those have been allowed to be there under the current naermcurrent permits that you're aware of? >> reports there was a party at the presents last night and such a party would have require add special permit from the city and such a permit had not been issued. >> and have you talked to the owner? [ inaudible ]. >> that would be, have you had any conversations -- since the fire? >> i personally have not. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i just want, i just want to remind you that this is the weekend. we are going off our actual records, and so we don't have all of the staff available to give you detailed answers to your question, we're trying to be at transparent as possible

with you to confirm what we can with, you know, authentically confirm at this moment in time such a short amount of time after this incredible tragedy, but we, again, remind you that our efforts right now are focused on the humane and compassionate addressing of the victims as well as securing the site as well as caring for those families, and so that is what we are focused on right now. we will have additional answers to these types of questions in the coming days. we expect to have opportunities to brief you again. >> let's go with sergio. go ahead, sergio. >> and the two, have you met with families today? there was apparently nine bodies that are there. waiting to be identified. did you meet with more than nine families? how many other people are missing at this point as to if they're here or not? >> i met with a roomful of people who had loved ones that

are missing. and it is painful to tell them that it will be a considerable amount of time before we can give them the information and the closure that they deserve. we are working very hard to comfort those families, to give them the type of support and information access that they deserve, but because of the devastating nature of this incident, we have been extremely limited in our ability to get access inside the structure as well as to perform the very careful work that must be done for us to absolutely be certain of an identification of a lost one. and that is what we are focused on doing. that is what i have the horrible, tough job as the mayor to do this morning, to explain to those families, to those friends, to those loved ones. >> how many people were named unaccounted for? >> a master list, how many still

unaccounted for? >> i think -- sergeant kelly? >> it's very uncertain, but there are a couple dozen people we still have to identify fop find out -- i know that everybody wants a number, and we don't know. we expect the number of deceased to go up. how far, i don't know. we're expecting the worst. maybe a couple dozen victims here. we've met with a room full of people and you know, they're holding on hope until they hear. families hold out for hope until they hear that final word that maybe their loved one is gone. so this is a very, very sensitive time. the mayor said it best, that there's two parts to this case. there's what's going on here now, the families, the sensitivity that we have to have towards the families and then moving forward later on in dealing with all the questions that you're asking now, about this dwelling. so -- >> do you know how many people

were -- >> a lot of people in this building and i don't have aanswer how many victims there are at this point. we can only confirm nine based on what we've seen and the limited access we could get to the building. >> talking about a survivor -- >> go on. >> yeah. that's a fire question. >> what kind of -- >> can you speak up a little bit louder? >> [ inaudible ]. what kind of -- recovery are we looking at? i mean -- firefighters are facing and how will you stabilize the building to stay safe. >> structural engineer from the city determined that the walls are secure. the intern floor space from the mezzanine is very unsecure. so we basically have had to come in and shore with cribbing and with shores, which are long basic holes and 4x4s along underneath the mezzanine area so it does not collapse on the

workers below it and we can work on the top. it's tedious. in there with the structural engineer, with our technical rescue team and making it a secure building and why we pulled out, as was said, after the one recovery. it was too lively. we backed out. we making it secure and ought to be going back in momentarily. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i saw no evidence of sprinkles. >> sir, you have not asked a question? >> can you confirm or discuss if any individuals on the missing list are minors? >> i have not seen a list. right now that type of information is very confidential, because we still have to notify families. it's more important for us to notify families to have them know all of this information before we then go public with it. so the respect and dees answer decency for people and loved ones. we know victims, people outside of the bay area, outside of the state and possibly outside of our country.

so we have a lot of people we need to reach out to. that is going to be timely. identification of people is going to be very, very difficult. people will not have identification and answers for up to 48 hours. it could take us days to identify people based on the level of remains that we have. >> hold on one moment, please. go ahead, ma'am. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i'm not getting into all the -- >> i'm sorry. go ahead, ma'am. >> [ inaudible ]. >> so -- they want to know what was on the ground floor? is it too difficult to describe that or that can be described? >> this was an artist collective. so the whole building was divided up into small areas that were basically work areas for artists. ranging from woodworking to sculpting to doing kinetic art. just a labyrinth of little areas. i can't speak to the second floor. that was where the party was taking place. but the evidence is, it had a

lot of fire load up there, too. i don't know how it was configured, but the ground floor, when we did our interior attack, we went in about 20 yards with hand lines trying -- we knew people were in there and trying to get them out, and it was -- a labyrinth. >> and whether or not [ inaudible ] pyrotechnics? >> not -- >> point of clarity on the code situation. permitted as a warehouse only, not 3er789ed as residences, no permit taken for a party. would any sort of work, artist work, be allowed in there? >> depends on the extent of the work in the building, and that's what we're still trying to ascertain as to what level of work in there was unpermitted add needed permits. >> no permits taken for any of the interior structure you know about? >> that's correct. >> sir -- excuse me me one moment.

i'd like to bring this back in focus on the fire. focus on recovery, focus on information for victims. so i'm going to take two more questions that are related to that, and we will prepare an additional press conference with more information at later time to discuss more about permitting, building structure, et cetera. so we'll take two more questions. you, sir? >> [ inaudible ] -- stairwell -- [ inaudible ]. >> there was a single staircase accessing the mezzanine. it was apparently constructed out of wood and was on fire when the crews entered and burned away from the fact it was not viable to obtain the second floor. >> [ inaudible ]. >> sir, go ahead, sir. go ahead. >> [ inaudible ]. fire started. how many people were [ inaudible ].

not just the victims. how many people survived -- [ inaudible ]. >> we've got a wide range of numbers. the count has been across the board. so i don't have a hard number on how many people were in the event. >> [ inaudible ]. >> no guesstimate. the only numbers we were given were how many people they knew were there, and so that was a much smaller number than how many other guests that you know, maybe people didn't know who they were. >> [ inaudible ]. >> survivors. there are survivors, once again. i'm aware of about a dozen, but there were other people who definitely got out and just ran away and at least one showed up at a hospital and sought treatment. >> mayor, would you like to close, closing remarks before we -- >> again, we have to bring this to a close right now. we have really critical work to do, the people standing behind me need to be working with the crews, supervising the

incredible difficult work that is in front of us right now. we will continue to keep you updated. you can submit your questions ahead of time. so that we can come back at our next conference prepared to answer your questions, but we have got to get back to securing this structure, to compassionately addressing the remains of victims that still are in the building, and also bringing comfort and information to the families. so we thank you, and we will be back with you again. thank you. >> we set any -- >> we will certainly send the information out when the next press conference is scheduled. if you have not provided -- sir, let me finish. let me finish. thank you. if you have not provided sergeant kelly and myself with your contact information we want to make sure you're on the list, so you are available and will receive the information. at this time we do not have a scheduled press conference, but we'll certainly send the information out. thank you. 25 minutes there out of

oakland, california. about 2:44 pacific time. this as leaders of the city and the county are out in front clearly the message they want to bring across to not only reporters that they're on-scene, but those who might have information related to this catastrophe, this fire they are saying killed nine, but potentially a couple dozen more could be also declared dead in addition to that nine. potentially, they are not saying that. their forke is, they're saying, is dealing with families who are grieving. dealing with recovery efforts. making sure that as they undertake the recovery efforts that it is safe for the responders on the ground you can see in this video here. the next 48 hours is what they're saying are key and the next 48 hours is what they're willing to commit at this moment, what their estimating. saying that the roof collapsed during the process of trying to get victims out of there, and,

again, leaders speaking for about 25 minutes and a focus, again, on families as well as victims. no evidence of sprinklers confirming what we were reporting earlier. still with us, tom van essen, former fire commissioner out of new york city. was in new york during 9/11. also with us steve patterson out of los angeles, nbc's correspondent scott cohen on the ground there in oakland. scott, we were listening. we were feeling and sensing certainly the frustration, the concern and the sadness coming from the leaders out of oakland, california, alameda county, and, really, when we look at what they were saying, and give me your perspective here. not a lot of difference from last hour necessarily. at least by the sorts of questions that were asked. the difference here is that they have so much more in front of them. and that's what they were consistently saying.

>> right. and one of the things that we learned was, you know when we first reported about 11:30 or so pacific time, 2:30 eastern time today that they were finally able to get into the building, well, they got into the building briefly, but then the walls started moving and they had to get right back out. so that gives you a sense of how difficult this work is that they're doing. as they just try to get a handle on what happened, the extent of the damage and the extent of the casualties, we know of the nine victims that were, that were spotted by firefighters on the scene as they were fighting the fire overnight, but we still don't know how many people in total were involved. said potentially two dozen, potentially more. but the first order of the business before they can get into what caused this fire and any negligence involved and all the things you heard asked about what was going on with the structure is who was hurt? who was killed? and they're still working on that. this much after the fact.

>> tom, when you look at the pictures and you hear what they're saying, they've got to shore up the building before they can get back inside, and those responders can look for evidence, look for those who may have died in that blaze. what are you seeing what do you think they need to shore up? some pictures show that this outside walls of the warehouse are made out of cinder blocks or what appear to be cinder blocks which, therefore, means that there are probably rebar inside that may have been compromised during this high temperature, high-flamed fire that consumed the warehouse. what is the shoring up process that you might be aware of, tom? >> well, it's kind of like you mentioned before. was there a difference in the early stages of the fire, whether it's concrete outside or it's wood inside, you know, wood, and as there's not that much of a difference because you do have access to get in there through windows and stairways and everything else, but this brings out the real problem

afterwards. because now you have a concrete wall that's very heavy and very dangerous if it would collapse. all the wood beams inside of it, the cross-wood beams supporting it are all gone. so with all the water and all the loss of that structure that's holding things together, they're tied together with rafters going across, or as that collapses, you only have the steel that's left. so there's nothing, nothing on the sides supporting that concrete wall, and you mentioned rebar. i don't know how much rebar is in the cinder blocks, but there's no real -- there's nothing for that wall to lean in on. >> yeah. >> and clachs. it could potentially collapse on top of the firefighters and that only makes things worse. >> especially looking at a two-story wall, right, made out of cinder blocks with redar inside of it. a lot of things make that thing work. also new information i want to offer to all three of you here, and that is coming in from an

interview with a former tenant, russell mcgowan, who spoke with us, and some pictures we may be able to show as well as what he told us, unconfirmed that he -- he did live there. he says he lived there. he lived in the structure before. these are some of the pictures from the website associated with what's called the ghost ship. and i'll just read some of the interview to all three of you. he says he was former tenant of the ghost ship. again, that's the name of this warehouse. and he says that 15 to 20 people were living there. he was saying he was going to move in there ash year and a half two years ago and started to build a room, and he spent about two months doing so. but then he says in his words, it got too sketchy to continue

to stay there. and he -- he was trying to move in and do some events there, which may be consistent with what the officials were saying, again, that events may have been held there before. he said that it was a strange place. it was both beautiful but strange. and that pretty much, these are his words, "pretty much one lone cigarette would have put the place up." it was a big grungy warehouse. there was really -- there was really legit it was pretty illegal, but the rent was cheap. that's why a lot of people moved there. again, his words, unconfirmed about these details, but an interview with us, and he said he's lived in a number of warehouses throughout oakland, and that of the ones that he's been in, that this one was definitely the most unsafe, and he goes on to say here, tom, start off with you here, that getting up to the second floor

that the deputy fire chief was talking about, it was made of these palettes. the shipping palettes we'll see when heavy things are delivered. put together, and as the deputy fire chief was saying, up in flames. couldn't use it anymore and he describes here, thomas, that the second floor was a labyrinth. using the same words the deputy fire chief says, because the way it was put together was, you go in, sounds like, and he would build a room. that would, therefore, be his room any way he put it together but in an artistic way. if these details come out to be true, these pictures are consistent with what was inside the warehouse the time of this fire, tom, sounds like you wouldn't know what to do. >> it's a nightmare. first of all, you wouldn't know what to do, because you can't see anything. and you can't -- these guys weren't even able to get up there. forget about it. if they were up there, probably

would have lost firefighters. since they weren't able to get up there and save those people, there's probably firefighters that are alive today. look at that place. that's a nightmare. that is an absolute nightmare. there's no -- the fire starts in one area and goes all the way across. the whole top floor, or the whole floor is exposed because there's nothing stopping the fire going from one room to another. so they put up, you have maybe a 15-foot ceiling and you have an 8-foot wall that they put up to have them, a little privacy in their own little studio, it looks like. so you can't -- that is so unsafe. so dangerous. i guess you know, maybe it wasn't inspected or however they got away with it i don't know. but it was -- that is the way, you know, if it turns out what he's giving you is accurate, that's illegal. it's a nightmare, and it was just an accident waiting to, a tragedy waiting to happen, and it did. first of all, if it's a place

where people just work in during the day, that's one thing. but if people are sleeping there at night, that's a whole other ball game. >> saying he had seen as many as 40 to 50 people at a time, they held events there, according to this testimony from this interview with russell mcgowan, and tom, quickly here. the key is that they were using pallets. pallets, almost perfect tinder, because of the spacing and the type of wood. right? discuss the way they're built and why this would be a fire commissioner's nightmare. >> well, it's anybody's night -- the owner of this building if any of this stuff is accurate, this owner is probably on his way out of the country right now, because this is an absolute criminal event that you are showing here. if people are really in it. there's just no way that could possibly be legal and pallets for a stairwell? that's what people use when they grab a pallet, they break it up and use it to fuel a fireplace.

it's good berning material. the last thing you want to have with air getting in between it. it's not stable. it's -- this place -- just gets worse the more you get. >> you know, scott, you've been watching what's outside that building. what used to be inside. consistent with the way i -- that russell mcgowan describing what he saw inside? now which may be outside? that this idea of a multitude of things including car parts? what have you seen, scott? >> reporter: yeah, all kinds of i guess debris and things that, you know, as the deputy chief said were used for sculpture and whatever else. there was a lot next door owned by the same property owner. that also was being looked into for blight and trash disposal and things like that. no shortage of fuel here, and not to mention probably you know, the timbers within the

building. talk about the cinder block, but it's an older building and there was no shortage of fuel to go up there. a lot of it on that first floor in a labyrinth and haven't been able to look too much at it because the roof collapsed on to the second floor and the second floor collapsed park lpardon pay on to the first floor and looking what was up there and what might have set this off. speaks to why it's so early in the process. it's a mess in there. >> steve, a minute left here and the reaction has been very emotional from this area. not only since the fire was reported, but now as we get more details. what are you seeing? >> well, the part that struck me in the press conference was the mayor talking about how she's in a room surrounding by friends and family and loved ones of people who were hypothetically in that structure, and she's

looking at the faces and she can tell that this situation's only going to get worse, but she's not able to tell the people just how much worse. >> yes. >> that must be the frustrating thing for officials. certainly it's frustrating for us as the media trying to get this story out there, but i can only imagine how frustrating it is for families now who may have to wait 48 hours to find out if their loved ones are okay. richard? >> steve patterson, thank you to all three. pivotal what is happening in oakland, california. so many people hoping for the best in respect may be another briefing later. if that does happen, stay with us right here on msnbc. keeping a close eye on this tragedy coming out of the community outside of san francisco, california. also unfortunately this days watching breaking news out of boston. firefighters responding to a ten-alarm fire in cambridge. flames spread to between serve ton eight structures including a church. several dudsen residents in the

area evacuated. officials say two people suffered minor injuries. an eyewitness tells nbc news, crew was doing construction on a house when a fuse blew sparking the blaze. cambridge, massachusetts. oakland, california a short break. after that, regular programming. thanks for being with us.

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