just something worth considering on this most sacred of anniversaries. and once again, like i said, if you have a member of the greatest generational live today, spend a little time with them, ask them about today and what it means. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more. chris matthews picks up our kump right now. good evening. the news before "hardball." we start with new developments on donald trump's cabinet. sources say he's turning to oklahoma attorney general skoco pruitt to run the epa. and he's also picking john kelly to head up the department of homeland security. he wants linda mcmahon to lead the small business administration. she of course co-founded world wrestling entertainment and ran two unsuccessful senate races up in connecticut. and he's also chosen iowa govern terry branstad as

ambassador to china. and he said mitt romney is still in the running for secretary of state. nbc's katy tur is outside trump tower. wh is your hunch, i guess hunch is a word only for me, not for you, but i'm not sure about the way he described mitt romney today with matt lauer this morning. i know he said it, i know he said all the right things. he wasn't doing to string him out. he said all the denials but i didn't catch any warmth in the name trump when spoke it. your thinking or can you think on this? >> reporter: you are not the only one. and there are some folks who would point out that when donald trump was talking with matt lauer this morning, he made a point of writing up the ceo of exxonmobile as well in contention for that secretary of state job. there have been fears among romney world that this is just trump trying to get even with mitt romney for the way that he spoke about trump during the campaign saying that he was unfit and unqualified and not

serious and just not somebody that should hold this officed a vow the catting for pretty much anybody but donald trump. but the two men have had two meetings. one of which was a dinner, both of them came out and said that it went well from all public appearances. on the inside hoe there are questions about whether donald trump would be serious about mitt romney. of course a lot on the moderate republican, the establishment republicans would hope that mitt romney was a serious contender for this job. about but i think you're right, chris, to question whether he is really in the top running for it, whether donald trump really wants him to be by his side. because this is a position where he will have to go away the world and sell donald trump's foreign policy to foreign leaders. and the other question is whether mitt romney himself would feel comfortable doing that and would he be able to do that in the way that donald trump would need him to do. would he believe in donald trump's policies enough to be able to go to china for instance or saudi arabia or turkey or

wherever and say that touchdown's religious test is something that is a good idea or the extreme vetting is a good idea, his position towards muslims is not quite as an taking miss t aan tak antagonistic. so i think you're right to question it. >> i have another theory i want to run by you which is that rudy giuliani is still in the running and i think the inside people want him. i think he passed the test of loyalty when there was really no hope of trump winning the election, no hope he was going to win. and rudy stuck with him on programs like hours and interviews with you. and he stuck with him as the most ferocious defender of trump's interests politically that anybody displayed. i don't see how he can deny him what he clearly wants. he can do what he wants, but i think it's rudy. >> he has rewarded loyalty in

the past. and he's talked about how loyalty is his number one consideration oftentimes when it comes to filling positions. i think it's notable that rudy giuliani's name hasn't come up much recently. there was word that donald trump wasn't happy with rudy giuliani when he was so public about his desire for the secretary of state job talking at a "wall street journal" dinner about how he thought he was pretty qualified for it, even more qualified than john bolton was. i think that it's notable that rudy giuliani has gone radio silent since then, maybe showing donald trump that he is serious about it and he can keep his mouth shut when he needs to. and that's a good sign that maybe he still is in contention, but i can tell you from conversations behind the scenes with folks in the trump campaign, that is not a name that we have been hearing much of lately. we've been hearing much more about mitt romney and rex tillerson. but this is an unpredictable now president-elect who is on which going to make decisions based on

the last person he talks to. rudy giuliani, to say that he's completely out of the running, i think it's too early. no one is out of the running until donald trump officially announces who his secretary of state will be. >> i still think it's rudy and everything you said in terms of perhaps donald trump's attitude towards rudy. if he were to criticize rudy for that kind of behavior, he'd be criticizing his own entire life which is seeking publicity and letting people know exactly what he wants. if that's the worst he can say about rudy giuliani, you're basically saying that for trump. thank you so much for this reporting. and as i say every night, don't bag up, you're right next to traffic. today "time" named donald trump the person of the year for -- look at that amazingly regal picture for 2016. trump reacted to the news on the "today" show. here he is. >> well, it's a great honor. it means a lot especially me growing up reading "time"

magazine. it's a very important magazine. and i've been lucky enough to be on the cover many times this year. and last year. but i consider this a very, very great honor. >> joining me is michael shear, "time" magazine washington bureau chief. i guess he likes you, you being e media. he certainly is reading you today. only thing he didn't like was the divided america. so explain your decision and his reaction. >> well, the decision is not made as an honor, it's the person who had the greatest influence on the news for better or worse. sometimes it does go to the ebola fighters where it's clearly an honor, but in this case i think it's both for better and worse and in-arguable that donald trump had the biggest impact not just in the united states, but around the world on the direction of things over the last year. he considers it an honor. he's always said he likes "time." he doesn't usually talk about

our covers that are more biting than this one. but it's true, he did grow up reading us and sees us positively. he didn't deny that the country is divided. what he said was i didn't have much to do with that and i think what he means is not that he didn't run a campaign that was very divisive, which is pretty in-arguable. hillary clinton ran a rough campaign, as well. a number of republicans ran rough campaigns. it's that he is trying very hard in these last few weeks to try to begin to heal that. he talks incredibly positively about president obama. he says he won't prosecute hillary clinton. i asked him about the dreamers. and he said we're going to work something out for them. and then he talked about people who, you know, have been going to school and working hard and are lost in a never never land. very different rhetoric from the rhetoric on the campaign trail. so his intention at this moment

is to present himself as a unifying president-elect, not a divisive one. >> did he know he had been named man of the year or person of the year when he sat for the portrait? >> we never told him he had definitely won. so he was not the -- it was never a lock. i think he had strong premonition given the portrait and given the circumstance. he had lobbied for it pretty hard last year if you remember, he was a runner up and was quite disappointed that angela merkel the chancellor of germany was the person of the year that year. >> well, as i say, mr. trump reacted to "time" magazine calling him president of the divided states of america. let's watch him react here. >> well, i think putting divided is starky, but again, it's divided. i'm not president yet, so i

didn't to anythido anything to . and i've thousanow gotten to kn president obama and i really like him. >> so was it your intention to say that he divided or exploited the divisions? sgri >> i think it's all of the before. it was as ugly and divisive and for many as scary an election as we've seen in at least a generation. and there is significant concern. his approval rating has come up since the election, but it remains much lower than other president-elects in recent history at this point in the contest, the sort of rhetoric we saw, the violence at rallies. this was a different kind of election than elections in the past. but it's also true that when he started his campaign, this was p an incredibly polarized and angry country. so it's not all of his making either. >> did you do a fact check to

see if his parents had a sub skrichin description to "time" growing up? do you have any evidence that he was actuallysubdescription to "g up? do you have any evidence that he was actually reading "time" as he was glowi inggrowing up? >> i have no evidence. >> do you have the ability to check that? was there a fred trump subscription? >> i'd be surprised if we still have the subscription records. no, i've not tried do that. i think it's clear trump has valued news magazines generally for his entire career. he was very -- he was first on our cover in the late '80s. and when i interviewed him in 2011 at the end of the interview, he pulled a picture off his wall and chased after me to show me the cover and say 15 minutes of trump. and he was still proud two decades later of that 1989

cover. so his affection for news magazines goes back pretty far. i can't verify that it goes back to his childhood. >> the record for all-time covers on "time" was who? public figure in the united states. i know who it is. >> i'd guess hillary clinton. >> no, richard nixon with 56 covers. hillary clinton was a newbie compared to nixon. >> she had the whole 90s. outbreak of bipartisanship in the senate all for vice president joe. and this afternoon lawmakers approved the 21st century cures bill which increases funding for health research. a portion is named after the vice president's son beau biden who died from brain cancer. later senators from both parties came together for a tribute honoring vice president biden who served 36 years in wi ns in. >> the greatest honor in my life is to serve in the seat that you held for 36 years. and not just literally this seat

in the senate, but also a seat on the 715 amtrak train every morning. >> champ, his father used to say, the measure of a man is not how often he is knocked down, but how quickly he gets up. that is joe biden right there. unbowed, unbroken, and unable to stop talking. >> the senate club still exists. and another development moments ago go, biden told reporters he has, quote, no intention of running for president in 2020. well, kasie hunt is on capitol hill. give us the flavor of that event. i love love, we all love love. and there seemed to be a lot of it up there even from mitch mcconnell. >> reporter: even from mitch mcconnell. he was called the irish poet of american politicians today, chris. and this tribute, it was supposed to last an hour. it stretched for an hour and a half. people kept showing up trying to get in.

afterwards they all streamed off the senate floor and they're now having an actual bipartisan party which as you know is extraordinarily rare. but just a real outpouring of love and affection for biden who people on both sides of the aisle referred to as their friend. mcconnell joked about the mokd mocked up photo of biden shirtless rubbing down a trans am and he said i actually drive a corvette. it certainly is different than anything we've experienced over the course ever tof the last ye increasingly rare here in washington. in many ways the feeti ingfeeli building is much different in that regard. john mccain told a great story about how he was once the navy liaison to the senate back when joe by tiden was a really young senator. so mccain had a uniformed day

job and he carried biden's bags around at one point and even he says and joe biden confirmed this afterwards that mccain and his wife jill once danced on a table together. i think it's pretty clear that mccain was intoxicated, unclear whether or not jill was. but stories like that. they're hard to come by thousand. >> i've been on those trips my yuchi younger years and i have to tell you, everybody meets late at night in the control room. those are the old days. thank you, kasie hunt on capitol hill. when we come back, other headlines from around the country including the marking of the 75th anniversary of the japanese attack on pearl harbor. and later some of the more revealing things trump has told fuss ent us in interviews over the years.

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let's get the latest on some of the top stories around the country. starting in hawaii where commemorations today marked the

75th anniversary of the japanese attack on pearl harbor which left more than 2400 americans dead. president roosevelt of course spoke to congress the following day. >> no matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the american people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. >> that took us into war of course. miguel almaguer is in pearl harbor. what is the mood out there? 75 years ago. i found out that my dad and my mother met each other on pearl harbor day. he was in the navy. he got the call in philadelphia to go back and put his uniform on. so everybody in service was in uniform that day. >> reporter: yeah, it has certainly been a very moving day here, very emotional for so many of those survivors here. a few step were in attendance today. even a handful from the uss

arizona. that was of course the big battleship where nearly half of the lives were lost. everyone we spoke to really talked about coming here today. s importance of it, not just to remember that day and what happened here just behind me on battleship row, but also to commemorate and celebrate the lives of those who didn't make it out of pearl harbor 75 years ago. everyone we spoke to really talked about the sense of community and the sense of belonging and coming together, this event rallying our nation. of course we would enter world war ii shortly after, but for so many of the survivors, they say being part of that living history and what brings them back to this event every year year after year. and of course as many of those survivors now get into their late 90s and even to 104 years old, this event means so much more to them. many say this may be the last time coming here because it's difficult for them to travel from all across the country, but it was definitely a very important and very moving day for for the just them, but for everyone else here who also took part in the ceremony. >> and five of those survivors have come back today. let me ask you, does the oil still leak up to the surface

from the arizona? i saw that one time when i was out there. >> reporter: yeah, the arizona is just behind us. and we know people have been going there all day long. we haven't seen any oil today, but it certainly may still be there. as a matter of fact, we know in just a few hours here there wl be a service to commemorate, there were two brothers who were on the uss arizona taking part in the attack, one last his life, the twin went on to survive and several decades later at 89, he just passed away i think two years ago and today remnants of his ashes will be put under the water so he can join his brother. just one of the so many tributes that we'll see here today. >> something to see. i wish i was there. thank you, miguel almaguer at pearl harbor for us. moving now to south carolina, where jurors were seated and heard opening arguments today in the charleston church shooting trial. dylann roof was in the racially

motivated attack. he faces the death penalty. give us a sense of where this is all headed. i think we know. >> reporter: so chris, day one of dylann roof's federal death penalty trial wrapping up here behind me. the key moment was the very dramatic emotional testimony from felicia sanders, she is one of the five survivors of this church shooting at emanuel ame church when dylann roof opened fire in june 2015. and she described in harrowing detail what it was like for her to lose her aunt that day and to lose her son that day. she said she saw her son take his last breath and leave this earth. her son was the one who stood up to dylann roof and asked him why he was committing those murders. now, throughout the day in court, dylann roof was silent, expressionless. he didn't look at any of the

witnesses. i stared down most of the time at the defense table wearing his prison uniform. if he is found guilty, chris, he will be the first person in america to get the death penalty in federal court for a hate crime. >> do we have any sense of is there any real issue of fact in this case at this point in terms of what he did, is that pretty much -- or conditions you say that? i get the sense that we know who did it, it was him. >> reporter: well, he confessed to the authorities. they have a two hour videotape confession that they plan to play in court of him confess abouting to the shootings. the defense lawyers in opening statements basically admitting that they expect him to be found guilty. his lawyer david brooks saying there is little to be disputed here. they even practically did not interview any of the witnesses.

at one point they just had a brief exchange with felicia sander, even apologizing and telling her they were sorry for her loss. so really the crux of the case will come in the sentencing phase if dylann roof is found guilty whether or not he will get the death he penalty or life in prison. >> he says he's going to defend himself and they always say that he who defends himself in court has a fool for a client. and i just wonder is he going to give a diatribe, do they have any idea if he will explain a racial attitude or something here or some sort of intellectualism of his horror of what he did? >> reporter: i don't know if they have any idea of how he will defend himself. remember, he rehired his lawyers this past sunday for this first phase of the federal trial. so for the guilt or innocence phase. and he's still planning to defend himself in the sentencing phase. so in that phase when they will determine whether or not he will get the death penalty.

>> this is drama and it's so tragic. just a horrible crime. anyway, thank you. now to oakland, california where that burned out warehouse has bean cleared. 36 people have died all together, and all but one i had have been identified.ean cleare. 36 people have died all together, and all but one i had have been identified.n cleared. 36 people have died all together, and all but one i had have been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest. h have been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest.ha have been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest.ad have been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest.d e been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest. h been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest.ha been identified. steve patterson joining us live from oakland with the latest. what do we know now? >> reporter: method of ignition still has yet to be determined, but area of origin and path of travel are a little bit more about what we learned today. they have isolated the part of the warehouse now that it's completely clear of where they believe generally this fire started, which is somewhere near the back wall. there is some markings back there from some charring of this fire in the back wall. and in an area where the

network, the colony was, where all the residential blocks were back to back to back in a makeshift faction. there were several appliances, like a refrigerator, sound system, and obviously this thing is done up with some very precarious wiring, you know, the wiring was exposed. obviously a lot of the materials were make shift. so they have electrical engineers on site looking into the possibility that this is an electrical fire about that we also learned kind of how the fire traveled. the makeshift staircases going up to the second floor, the fire caught those, went up to the second floor. thick black smoke traps everybody up there and then the roof collapses on top of the warehouse. officials still don't know what caused the fire, what sparked the fire, and it may take several weeks before they have a determination on that. >> pros are going to work. thank you, steve patterson. up next, donald trump's actions to pick winners and losers in corporate america and

how it's affecting the board room. and "hardball" at 7:00 p.m. eastern. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.

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it was just yesterday that donald trump took on boeing corporation over its government contract if a new air force one. trump said it should be canceled. he was asked about his comments this morning. >> i spoke to the head of boeing p and we'll work it out. but there's what i'm here for. i'm going to negotiate prices. we're going to get the prices down and if we don't, we won't order them. we'll stay with what we have. >> is your comments on boeing came just a short while after an article came out that the ceo of boeing was critical of your trade policies. was it about the price of the planes or was this about retribution? >> well, only the planes because

i didn't see an article where he was critical of trade policies. and my trade policies will be terrific. >> alli, the fact that he's saying there is no causality between him taking a shot at boeing and boeing, ceo, take being a shot at his trade policies, that flies in the face of everything that we know about trump. he's reactive. >> what does he know about airplanes? he told somebody during the campaign that his 737 boeing is bigger than air force one. it's categorically not. he isn't he know anything about airplanes. this contract for $4 billion isn't really a contract, it's exploratory. >> it's all bigger. >> so i'm just worried that he becomes this kind of president where he gets hyper focused on individual deals. this is not going to fix our economy. air force one is a unique project. the ceo did say that it gets in to a trade war.

boeing is always in competition with its european counter part. he expressed a view on that. so it's a little hard to believe. you remember president obama referred to wall street as the fat cats and they never got over that. they were mad about that for the whole eight years. this is very different. he is naming and shaming individual companies. i just don't think it's sustainable. we have a world that is a tinderbox. he needs to move on sfwlp do you thi think. >> do you think the business people are stuff enough to stand up to him? >> there are entire industries for instance the drug industry which has not done well, it mass not participated in the stock market really ally. so everybody is scared and there are places where the president naming companies and going after industries can be helpful. but it seems to be one off. there is nobody in america who thought air force one was the president obama that needed to be tackled. there are people who think drug

prices need to be tackled or the banking segment is out of control. so i think he might be kicking the tires. he's going to have to have a more comprehensive strategy about how he deals with business for better or for worse. >> a friend said you can buy insulin for people who are diabetic like he was and i am. and one if i havefifth the pric france. let's figure out that baby. >> they're more worried about what happens to medicare and affordable care act and things like that. nobody is worry buiing air force one. >> he was also asked about stocks he said he sold in the summer. >> why did you sell your holdings in june? go >> because i felt that i would have a conflict of interest. i don't think it's appropriate for me to be owning stocks when i'm making deals for this country that maybe will affect one company positively and one company negatively.

i just felt it was aconflict. >> owning hotels is all right, but not stocks. 69% of the american people now say that trump should not be forced to sell his business empire. 69% he shouldn't have to sell. but that same poll showed that 67% say trump should choose between being president or being a businessman. i think they're somewhat in conflict. and 51% are confident that trump will put the nation's business interests first. sometimes i think you're asking people these polls over the phone, i don't know how people react. yeah, yeah, he shouldn't have to give up everything, but then again, i don't want a conflict. people have to think these things through. and it's very complicated because it is. >> and it's been about a month since i stopped worrying too much about the polls. i will tell you this, around june when he sold all those stocks, which by the way he could have done the day before he becomes sworn in as president, he sold all that at about the time that he forgave his campaign the loan. so maybe donald trump needed to

come up with cash rather than he was concerned about conflict of interest. >> could well be true. all thank you, ali. still made, our nightly look back at some of the key moments from my interviews over the years with donald trump. always good to get perspective from history. we'll listen to some of the things trump said and also what it will tell us about how he thinks now and how he will lead us the next four years. n is a pn heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon.

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we're back. in donald trump's interview with "time," the president-elect promiseded to heal the country and bring america back together. all week we're speaking with reporters from across the country to get a sense of what mayors to most americans. and we're thousand jonow joined lee, loretta bonini, and phillip

janikowski. i want to start with loretta. and pat mccrory, it's one of the one issue -- one trick pony and this was a bad trick pony for this guy. the bathroom story telling people they have to go to the bathroom of their physical birth although that would create such chaos for a transgender person. is that why he was knocked off as an incumbent? >> well, he is actually our first incumbent governor who is losing for re-election here in north carolina. they haven't been able to do that except for a couple of decades now. and you probably do have to blame vast majority of this on hb-2 because you look at the rest of the races here in north carolina from donald trump to richard burr, both republicans, they both won here easily. and this was a huge issue in the

governor's race and this is the one person, the one republican who lost here in north carolina. >> was it the social embarrassment of talking up such an issue over and over again making it such a spotlight issue or was it the loss of business that he was causing because of the nba and other organizations saying we're not going there anymore some glink it's probably a mix of both. he really dug his heels in on this and believes that it was the right thing for the state and kept going on national news telling people that it was the right thing for the state when there is obviously a lot of people here in north carolina who don't believe it's the right thing. but then when you start looking at all of the money that the state has been losing by these businesses that aren't coming here, the all-star game not coming here. we just lost the acc football championship that was just held last weekend, it was down in orlando instead, so people really do notice things like that. >> if i know the acc, i went to chapel hill, and there is nothing more important than the acc back tournament. thank you very much, loretta. let's go now to curtis lee, out

in california. i have a simple question. what power does the governor of california have over inrrupting or nullifying a national policy or enforcement policy on immigration? >> we just saw recently that governor jerry brown tapped congressman becerra to become the next ag. and really the state ag can push back against a trump administration on some of the more progressive policies that have been passed in the state. becerra has said that he will look to push back against any efforts to roll back some of the progressive policies that have been enacted here in california. you've also seen different mayors from around the state from san francisco to los angeles saying that, hey, on immigration reform for example, you know, we're still going to remain the so-called sanctuary cities and help immigrants and

what not. so there are a lot of efforts under way here in california to possibly be a thorn in the side of a trump administration. >> if there is a round up of people perhaps starting with felons without documentation, what does the governor do to stop -- what does the attorney general mr. becerra do to stop the federal government i.c.e. from doing something? stand in the way of them at the doorway of somebody's house or restaurant or something? >> well, certainly stand out for some of the laws that have been passed here in the state of california to help individuals who are in the country legally and kind of remain true to those laws. and essentially, you know, try to blunt a republican administration or the trump administration's efforts to possibly roll some of that back. >> echos of nully if i indication. wonder if i could actually do t it. thank you so much for joining us. let me go to phillip janikowski. let me ask you about richard spencer. he didn't get a good hearing down there in texas, did he.

>> no. absolutely not. and it should be mentioned that this is a very conservative university, that's what several of the students said to me. but it was a very overwe welwew himming response. they were very loudly against what he stands for which is definite hate and racism. >> did he get to finish his speech in we're watching some of the tussle here. what was the actual result? >> yeah, i was there. it was very teps, b tense, but police presence kept the protestors outside the hall where he was speaking. inside the hall, i heard from my colleague that there were tense exchanges there. but the police were able to keep

things relatively calm and there were no are are arrests and no injuries. so that is a really positive part about all of this. >> it's great that people can address this nonsfri lviolently though. thank you, curtis lee, loretta and phillip. when we come back, tonight's installment of vintage trump. and the promise he made in 1997 to donate his business empire to charity and why he says he hates shaking hands with people. and some other things. be a park ranger, i got really excited. gabe's obviously really sick. and there's a lot that he isn't able to do, and make-a-wish stepped in. we had to climb up the mountain to get the injured hiker. he fell from, like, a rock. he's been the one that has been rescued so many times. he said to me, "today, i got to be the hero." (avo) the subaru share the love event has helped grant the wishes of over twelve hundred kids so far. get a new subaru, and we'll donate two hundred and fifty dollars more to help those in need. ♪put a little love in your heart.♪

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i believe i'm portrayed differently than i actually al. i believe i'm portrayed in a rougher sense than the actual product. and i hope that is true because i hope the actual product is a lot more mellow than the portrayal. >> welcome back. that was donald trump referring to himself as a product in an

interview back in 1985. even back then, trump complained that the image of him presented in the media was not the person that he considered himself to be. in this edition of vintage trump, we'll look at some of trump's public persona and how it squares with the man we've come to know as a candidate for president and now as of course president-elect. there has been a lot of reporting on trump's murky record when it comes to charitable giving for example. when pressed on the sut back in 1997, mr. trump told nbc's stone phillips that he would ultimately give his business away to charity. apparently all of it. >> ted turner recently donated a billion dollars to the united nations. and he challenged you other rich guys to do the same. are you up to the challenge? >> well, my attitude is i'm in a very volatile world and volatile business. real estate is both the best business and can be the worst business for periods of time. i'm going to leave a huge amount of money, i'm setting up foundations and everything else and when i'm not here, a huge

amount of money will be left. >> when it comes to chair ritri contributions, where do you stand? >> i'm involved in many charities. i give a lot of money. but at the same time, i want to put himself in a position where i'm not strapped. i want to really have a monster incredible valuable business even bigger and even better than it is now and then ultimately it's going away. i mean ultimately charity will get it. and that's what i want to do. >> charity's going to get it. i'm joined by mark fisher author of the book "trump revealed." mark, do we have any evidence of why he would say i'll give my money away or any evidence that he intended to? >> he says it for the same reason that he says that he's a product, that he wants to present himself as a product in a certain way. presenting himself as someone who is charitable is part of building that product. it's part of building the brand of trump. and that is what he's been about since his early 20s.

and so when we see him saying that he's going to give it all away, in that moment, he really feels like he's been beneficent. and when you say you never wrote the check, he says it's not the question of writing the check, it's about making the statement and bringing attention to the charity and so he feels that he's done that work. >> and betty crocker doesn't exist. aunt jemima doesn't exist. hop along cassidy doesn't exist, but these people assume these second identities and they live them and make money off of them. is that what donald trump is one of the these products completely associated with him but they're not him? >> except that he and his brand at some point merged. so at some point in his youth there was a donald trump who was not a brand. but he decided early on under

the tutelage of roy cohen and he's making his way to manhattan to become a rich playboy, his owe persona meshlged with t mer image of the business and he has trouble separating the two even know. >> donald trump's lawyer worked infamously for joe mccarthy back during the red baiting days. and years later in 1984, trump pitched himself to the government as an arms control negotiator with the soviet yuchb and here's what kohn had to say about the role donald trump hoped to play with the russians. >> is it arrogant of donald trump to even suggest the idea or think about negotiating a trea treaty with the russians? >> no. if you know donald trump, you would know that it's not

arrogance. he thinks that rather than a career diplomatic approach, if you can use the common sense of american business in dealing with the soviets, you will get much further than these dip low the matts will get and i'll tell you, he certainly has nothing to lose because they haven't gotten anyplace.matts will get and i'l you, he certainly has nothing to lose because they haven't gotten anyplace. >> this connection with roy cohn is so rich or unrich. he said no matter what do i, i'll end up with the "new york times" saying i worked for joe mccarthy. so now back to life sort of to be an associate of donald trump. >> right. and what we see here is cohn saying about trump what is really true of trump, what makes him different from the politicians that he ran against this year, the establishment that he decided to take down, is that donald trump has two big allergies. he's allergic to ideology he's as dismissive of

conservatives as he he is of liberals. he likes to think of himself as a proceed vok came chur and as someone who can come up with the common accepts rule from his gut. when i asked him how are you going to learn the complex issues that face a president when you don't know anything about them, things come up that no president is prepared for, and he said i'll tell you one thing, i'm not going to read any and he used a curse word reports or briefings. he said -- i said then how are you going to learn this stuff? he said i'll have my people come in, they can talk to me for 20 or 30 seconds and i'll know in my gut what to do. he has confidence that he can rule from the gut. >> when trump was considering a bid for president way back in 1999, he told me releasing his tax returns would be no problem. let's watch. >> when you run for president,

will you release your income tax returns? >> it's something i haven't even thought of, but i certainly i guess as i get closer to the decision which i'll probably make in february, it's something that i will be thinking of, they're very big, very complex, but i would probably have -- i probably wouldn't have a problem with doing it. >> what do you think? he has a problem with doing it. he's the president-elect and he hasn't shown us a piece of paper yet and he doesn't want to apparent apparently. >> he said he would do it and he said he wants to do it. he came up with the excuse about the irs audit which certainly hasn't stopped other people from releasing their tax returns. so he obviously has things in there that he thinks are either deeply embarrassing or that would inhibit his ability to do the job. he's now in this process that we're watching of trying to decide just how much he needs to divest to distance himself from his own business. at the moment we don't have any hard evidence that he's going to

completely remove himself from that business. it will be awfully hard because that is as we've said earlier, that is his identity. he thinks of himself that way and he acts according to what he thinks is best for the brand. >> he also said back in 1999 -- 1990, he had a well documented aversion to shake hands with people. let's watch that. >> i'm just not a huge believer in the shaking of hands. the fact is that i see people come up all day long shake your hand, shake your hand. where have they been. and then you read reports that you get colds and flu and everything. and much of it is brought on by the mere act of shaking hands. and i just hate shaking hands. i hate shaking hands with people i don't know. i believe in the japanese system. you nod and you say hello, nod. wouldn't that be great if we had that in this country? a lot of people agree with me by the way. it's not totally unique. but i have really been on a

campaign on it. the fact is i think it's a terrible habit especially in these times. i am a clean freak. i believe in cleanliness. i like cleanliness. and i don't mind where people you know them, you know what kind of people, but when a total stranger comes up out of the blue and says hey, how you doing, i can't be be in love with it. i do it, but i'm not in love with it. >> isn't that dantsity of him. >> very first interview i had with him in trump tower, he came around the dump r desk and he shook may hand and i was surprised because i had heard that he had this hygiene thing and i asked will him about it and he said no, i was brought up to believe that you don't shake people's hands. it's not hygienic. he was brought in a family that as he said a clean freak. and so he is a germophone. and he said that simply because of the campaign, it was so expected of him that he had too

shaking people's hands. but he doesn't like to be touched. he's not a huggy guy. so there is a formality. he comes from german i stock that has a formal edge to it and he has retained that. people get the sense that he's this big friendly guy, but behind the scenes he's much more tightly wound in that german hygienic kind of way. >> he's thinking in high german. thank you, marc fisher. say tuned now for "hardball." a full hour of politics coming up. we'll get to the opinions on the news and what it all means. keep it here. hashtag no sleep. hashtag mouthbreather. just put on a breathe right strip. it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right. ♪ i want a hippopotamus for christmas ♪

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