the right stuff. let's apply "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we're getting a clearer picture of what the trump presidency will look like, both in terms of the people he's picked to be in his cabinet and the actions he's taken since winning the

election. when it comes to the government he's forming, the picture emerging is of a traditional conservative one. he picked jeff sessions to be attorney general, former goldman sachs banker, steve mnuchin, to be treasury secretary, retired general james "mad dog" mattis to run the defense department. avowed obamacare critic, tom price, to head the health and human services administration, retired general john kelly to head the department of homeland security. dr. ben carson to lead the department of housing and urban development. school voucher proponent, betsy devoss to head the education department. billionaire wilbur ross to head commerce. elaine chao at transportation department. and just today, he announced his pick for labor secretary. former fast food executor, andy pussner. south carolina governor nikki haley will be at the united nations. his choice to head the epa is someone who has sued the agency,

is suing it, scott pruitt. another retired general, mike flynn, will be his national security adviser. and wrestling executive linda mcmahon will be the head of the small business administration. still undecided, u.s. secretary of state, of course, and also interior and agriculture. meanwhile, trump's penchant to use the bully pulpit continued yesterday with a stinging twitter rebuke of a local union leader out in indiana, who criticized trump's numbers on how many carrier jobs were saved. here was chuck jones, by the way, just yesterday, the labor leader. >> i appreciate mr. trump getting involved and saving as many people's livelihoods as he did. so i don't think that can go without being said. i just wish that he'd have had the numbers down. >> well, minutes later, donald trump took to twitter himself. quote, chuck jones, who is president of the united steelworkers 1999 has done a terrible job representing workers. no wonder companies flee country. and then he went, "and if united

steel workers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in indiana. spend more time working, less time talking. reduce dues! what does this latest back and forth tell us about the trump presidency. joining me now, trump's campaign manager and senior adviser to the trump transition, kellyanne conway. by the way, kellyanne, i don't think you hear much of this, but in the feminist world, we talk about it a lot, me and my senior executive producers and others. and that is, you're the first woman to win, actually to break the glass ceiling and manage a successful winning presidential campaign, so hurrah, if you haven't heard that before. >> thank you, chris. you've got other people on print and on your network criticizing me, because yesterday i dare say i may not go into the west wing because my children are 7, 8, and 12 and all these childless people's heads were on fire. >> let's talk about your boss, once and future, perhaps, donald trump. i understand the old pat buchanan's role.

was always attack up. always go after other big guys. like nixon attack, johnson made a mistake of attacking nixon and got nixon basically nominated by doing it back in '66. nixon was the nominee by '68. why does donald trump, who's a big guy, attack this little labor leader out in indiana? >> he's just correcting the record. >> ha! he's saying the guy's a joke. okay, go ahead. >> he is. look, the steelworkers, like the coal miners, when hillary clinton promised she would put the coal industry out of business, mark my word, it was a big inflection point in the campaign, because the steelworkers heard that, the pipe fitters heard that, the guys in the unions where you and i grew up together, chris, heard that, and it was a very important part of his centerpiece, really, of his campaign, helped him win states like ohio, iowa, pennsylvania, michigan. he's setting the record straight. people feel like with donald trump, they have license to say whatever the heck they want about this guy, with no consequences, with no blowback.

the guy has a right to defend himself. and he rarely draws first blood. it's when he is attacked, he likes to set the record straight. >> let me ask you about this real situation, he's out there at ohio state university, the ohio state university tonight, art of the victory tour. but, of course, they were victimized out there by a terror attack. what is his latest position on dealing with islamic terrorism? i know the phrase is something that he's familiar with and likes to use, and i have no problem with that. the question is, how do you deal with people that come into this come, are born in this country, who somehow find themselves radicalized here by al maliki or somebody on social media, somehow they become radicalized, when they weren't -- when their parents came here or they came here. how do you catch them in the act, then? >> that's what happened in orlando, really. you have the lone wolf terrorism, you have the lone wolf program that i don't think is as good as it could be, oomar martine would have been stopped. you have that situation. you have the san bernardino situation, where they come in, otherwise -- newly, not born

here, and i guess the woman came in through a fiancee visa, so there's all different types of terrorism here and abroad where he's going to look at that very clearly. he had put ow probably four or five months ago now, chris, his speech on defeating radical islamic terrorism. it's there for anybody to see. they can pull it up tonight. four or five points on how to do that. it also includes better vetting from countries that have a known history of exporting and harboring and training terrorists. and look, the country responded to that. i think securing his toughness on this was a big centerpiece of his win. >> what do you do about people who are as american as you and me, they grew up, maybe they parents came from somewhere in the middle east, they went to school and something went wrong, they felt like misfits in this country, got angry, and did terrible things. they committed terrorism. how do you stop that or is that just an unanswerable question? >> well, part of it's

unanswerable. >> like in ohio state -- like that area, where he's going to tonight. >> that's right. but part of it is really to always have that proper balance between our civil liberties and the need for the government to have surveillance, where they have a reason to be -- to surveilling individuals. so that's always going to be a delicate balance. it's not going to be perfect. but i think most people can agree, it hasn't been -- it's been far from perfect over the last several years. >> i wonder if it can be in a free society. >> and it actually hasn't gone well in europe either. look what's happened there. the idea that president obama referred to isis as contained and no longer advancing and the jv team shortly before they enacted some of their murderous savagery, the idea that hillary clinton referred to them in her convention speech in our philadelphia, chris, as, quote, our determined enemies. why not just call them what they are? murderers, savages. you know, she called -- she referred to pro-life republicans

as terrorists. she doesn't refer to the terrorists as terrorists. no wonder she lost. >> okay, you got that shot in there, fair enough. let me ask you about romney. i have a feeling romney's not going to get it. i have a feeling that rudy giuliani's going to get it. correct me if i'm wrong. >> i can't say. that's donald trump's decision. and i will respect the president-elect's decision either way. i can tell you the field that has really expanded. and look, for me, it was never rudy versus romney. i don't know why people were making it that kind of cage match. i know it's great on tv and it's great because they're too big personalities who different levels of loyalty to donald trump, the candidate. but the fact is, he's really expanded the search. different levels of loyalty. what level of loyalty would you ascribe to mitt romney? he tried to kill the guy! he devoted -- it was like a vendetta, it was like a crusade, if you will, to get rid of trump! and now trump's considering him to be his top cabinet member? is that for real? >> well, we know where i come down on this, but my opinion doesn't matter, that donald

trump's opinion matters. and i've been very passionate about this privately. and somewhat publicly. but here's the thing. the search has expanded. you know other people have been coming in to trump tower to interview for this position, general petraeus, senator corker, who would probably face fairly easy confirmation in the senate, who's the head of the foreign relations committee. you have alan mulally here today, rex tillerson here on tuesday. so you've got captains of industry, you have generals, you have former governors, mayors. and i like the fact that the field expanded, because it's an incredibly important position, chris. i mean, the one thing donald trump is doing is he's not just rewarding donors and personal friends with cabinet positions, these are people who are qualified to do the job. and that has to apply to secretary of state. >> well, i definitely have to give credit to a guy who brought back ford motor company. it's amazing what mulally did. trump's pick to head the labor department is kind of curious. the ceo of several major food

chains. in the past, puzner has argued against raising the minimum wage, fair enough, that's a republican position. but he's also championed the use of machines to replace human workers at his restaurants. he said earlier this year, quote, machines are always polite. they always upsell, whatever that means, they never take a vacation, day never show up late. there's never a slip and fall or an age, sex, or race discrimination case. well, excuse me, of course there isn't, they're not human beings! they don't have the rights of citizens under the law! that doesn't sound like a friend of the working guy or the working woman, to me. >> he is, indeed! the man has created thousands and thousands of jobs, as you know -- >> for robots? >> no, he's created enormous wealth for his employees. he's just -- i think that comment is based on the realities of the workplace, in some instances, chris. but nobody can deny this man is in touch with how to create jobs, the importance of labor and management roles and responsibilities. i think he's a great choice. >> okay. we're going to talk later about

this artificial intelligence thing, because i don't like going through laguardia airport -- which i do like laguardia airport. i don't like going through it and seeing every single job that used to be serving you a donut or a coffee replaced by a little computer thing. you know what i'm talking about -- >> i get it. >> it's very troubling. >> it's also very embarrassing when you can't figure out how to do it. >> yeah, you've got to figure out how to get a -- and some guy comes over with a hamburger and -- anyway! after the sharp exchange you had with clinton communications director jennifer palmieri, from her end, at that harvard forum last week, palmieri wrote an op-ed in "the washington post" today. she said, among other things, i don't know whether the trump campaign needed to give a platform to white supremacists to win, but the campaign clearly did and it had the effect of empowering the white-nationalist movement. i think you call it in law, your sur rebuttal, your final rebuttal to the op-ed piece, which is a rebuttal to what you, your campaign did. is that going to end? >> ask jennifer palmieri that?

she's writing an "the washingto had a scathing piece about me, which led to some death threats today, which will be on their doorstep. this campaign ran a race that reached into those working class voters. they were the base of our support. we also managed what could have been bigger deficits among women, since we were running against the first female president. we figured out a way to reach women in our messaging, otherwise, how in the world do you explain hillary clinton only getting about 55 to 56% among women and not 60 to 65%, chris, where she would have won. we ran the abtables among union households and rural voters. we did much better with white women, in which hillary clinton is in that demographic, than people expected. 53% of them. we managed our -- we managed to win voters over the age of 55, able. 55 to 64, 65 plus. you can't take that away from us. we busted the blue wall in

states like michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin. and for them to pretend it was because of this issue is not just insulting, it's empirically false. and chris, all they needed to do was have a compelling sticky, persuadable, aspirational message to the american people. if you can sit here right now and tell me as a brilliant political mind what hillary clinton's message was, i'm listening. what was it? all i heard was, we're not donald trump. that's not a message. that's a screed. >> that's right. by the way, james carville said that on election night right here where i was sitting with rachel and brian. >> it's true. and scapegoating, white supremacy, scapegoating jim comey, russian interference, fake news, bernie sanders, he had the audacity to run. why did he do that? how about he won 22 states and 13 million voters and they never fully assimilated him back in. and anytime i defend myself against these specious allegations that are leading to death threats, anytime i try to

respond, i'm seen as ungracious. why are we sore winners? i'm not a sore winner, we're a winner. my guy's a winner. he's the next president of the united states. this has to stop, this incendiary rhetoric of people who just can't admit that they lost. they have to stop, because it's causing a lot of anxious. and i hope -- i kw you don't have any control of this, i hope the racists and bad guys and white nationalists stay away from your inauguration. because they'll show up -- >> let me say for the record -- >> -- with a confederate battle flag and i know you don't want that to happen. i know you don't. >> and i hope the rabble-rousers and protesters on both sides stay away. in other words, this is a president who is trying to reach out. he's working with the current president, he's working with -- he works with secretary clinton. she didn't just congratulate him on election night. i was right there. he was on my phone. she conceded to him. and it's time for people, one month later, who just can't get over the election results to realize that he is their president and that, take a clue from hillary clinton. take a clue from president

obama. try to give this guy the berth that he needs to form his government and try to have a peaceful transfer of democracy. he has -- donald trump has denounced many times, including recently, and very passionately, these white supremacies, these white nationalists. he's done that many times. for those who want to hear it, they should hear it. for those who refuse to listen to it, please stop using it as an excuse. >> okay, thank, kelly anne. >> thank you. >> and on the other point, teach him to dance. thank you kellyanne conway of the trump transition. great to have you on. thank you. >> i'm dancing with you at the inaugural. >> let's bring in nbc's katy tur right now. she's in des moines ahead of another trump rally tonight. the beat goes on, katy. you're right in the middle of it. you've been watching this aggravation now for a couple of years. and it does seem like a car, when you turn the car off, but the engine stays on. the attitudes from the campaign are still hot right now. >> reporter: yeah, and they have been for quite some time. but it's really only increased since donald trump won the

presidency. and you see that from a number of his supporters as well. you know, yelling at members of the press, at times, and saying, we won, and then saying, you didn't, as if the president had a card to play in this. in terms of talking about chuck jones, the union leader that donald trump tweeted last night, to correct the record, is what kellyanne conway is saying, that's not quite fair, because chuck jones was trying to correct the record with donald trump. trump said he saved more than 1100 jobs from going to mexico. in reality, chuck jones was saying it was closer to 730, 800 jobs, something around that, that were staying and not going to mexico. and carrier confirmed that today. that it was about 800 jobs. 300 others were never slated to go to mexico. so, saying that donald trump was trying to correct the record is not really correcting the record. but it does show you that he is going to use his position as

president-elect, as president, to bully who he needs to bully in order to maintain this image of a job saver, a job creator, a successful president. we've seen him already, you know, sway some of the news in his direction. use it to his advantage, even though it's not necessarily -- the details aren't necessarily as beneficial to him as they might seem on the surface. we talk about soft bank being one of those. donald trump saying that they were never going to invest $50 billion into the american economy unless he won. that's not entirely true. they were already planning on doing it. they had announced it a few months ago, and it was in conjunction with saudi arabia actually pouring $100 billion into the economy. but he's using his influence and his position and twitter to claim successes where successes aren't necessarily there. and in that way, he's already

selling himself as a successful president, even before he takes the oath of office. >> it's not yperbole is not new with trump. he breaks all the records. thank you so much, katy tur. coming up now, we'll remember one of the popular figures, most popular figures, perhaps, of the late 20th century john glenn. the first american to orbit the earth. that's ahead. plus, the dangerous game of fake news. we'll talk more about that. hillary clinton speaking out against it. now a woman in florida is under arrest for making death threats to the parent of one of the victims of the sandy hook school massacre. the woman under arrest says it never happened, that it's a hoax. that's the thing being pushed by the extreme right wing. it never happened out there, sandy hook. that's interesting. a horrible thing to say. and trump saet to hold his latet thank you rally tonight in iowa. the "hardball" roundtable will be with me.

let's finish with an american hero, you know who he is, the right stuff, john glenn. this is "hardball," the plaux.

well, hillary clinton returned to capitol hill today. the former first lady, secretary of state, and new york senator was on hand this afternoon as the senate paid tribute to democratic leader, harry reid of nevada, who's retiring right now. as clinton began her remarks, she struck a self-deprecating tone. let's listen. >> this is not exactly the speech at the capitol i hoped to be giving after the election. but after a few weeks of taking selfies in the woods, i thought it would be a good idea to come out and i am very grateful to harry for inviting me to be part of this celebration. >> well, clinton also spoke about what she called the epidemic of fake news. and we'll get into that later. "hardball" back after this.

if you suffer from a dry mouth, then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance.

he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast.

the day the united states begins paying tribute to colonel john h. glenn jr., the first american to ride a spacecraft around the world. >> welcome back to "hardball." well, today, 54 years after he became the first american to orbit the earth, we again pay tribute to john glenn. known as an astronaut, a u.s. senator, a pioneer in the golden age of space exploration, john glenn died today at the age of 95. author tom wolf once said that glenn, who was the product of a small town in ohio, was the last true national hero america has ever made. and for good reason. after the soviets had maintained an article lead in the space race during the depths of the cold war, it was john glenn who leveled things off with the success of the mercury at last 6 mission in 1962. he circled the earth three times, risking his life to push the limits of human exploration into a new frontier, which was the name of that administration. upon his return, glenn was ha

hailed as a hero, and one who ultimately helped to fulfill the promise that president kennedy had made to send a man to the moon within a decade. glenn later reentered public life representing his home state of ohio in the u.s. senate. in 1984, he ran unsuccessfully for president, that he took in stride. here he is. >> it's better to have tried and failed than to have failed to try. i guess that's the way i look at it. >> but through all his year in public life, he never lost his pioneering spirit. he made one final launch in 1998, when he was 77. he became the oldest astronaut to ever journey into outer space. joining me right now is democratic strategist, steve mcmahon to my left, and howard fineman, global editorial director -- appropriate title tonight -- global editorial director at "the huffington post" and commander scott albin, a retired astronaut and shuttle commander. so tell me, shuttle commander,

what it was like to meet john glenn and what he meant to you. >> john glenn was a hero of mine. he had the career i always dreamed of. fighter pilot, flying world war ii korea, then test pilot and astronaut. so meeting him in the astronaut gym and working out with him was a real thrill for me. and he just fulfilled every expectation i ever had of somebody that lived up to it. >> so let's do a couple of things. we didn't think we would do it on a tragedy look this. the death of a guy in '95. a great man. how come guys like you are laughing as they're gok into a spacecraft and about to take off. everything can go wrong. you're all chuckling away. we're off, we're going on a little picnic here. how do you do that, psychologically? >> well, you've been training for the mission for so long and you're getting ready, you come downstairs to go out to the astrovan to go to the launch, it's like coming downstairs on christmas morning. this is going to be great, i

can't wait. my only worry was, would i screw up? i don't care what happens, as long as it's not my fault. >> last question and i'll go to the regular friends of mine. very nice to meet you, sir. what is it like to be up there and look down and see the earth? as norman mailer once said, can't we have a poet go up? what's it like to look down and see earth as this green ball? >> i can't agree with you more. it would be great to have someone with a little more artistic bent than i do. i am moved looking down at it, you see thunderstorms over africa flashing like bulbs, the thinness of the atmosphere. it just makes me think of the planet as alive. and that perspective is amazing. >> unbelievable -- and the llions of people in places like india and china. can you see that? movement? >> you see evidence of people down there. especially at night. the lights as you look around the world are really amazing. >> write that up, will you? 1963, john glenn appeared on "meet the press" and spoke about what the space program meant to

hum and to the world. >> i can't even begin to pinpoint what we may run into or what we may prove of most benefit. but i think man's participation in this guarantees one thing. if we can see things, perceive them, analyze them, relate them back to our experiences here, this is the main thing that man brings to the program. he can see things, knew things that now are completely unforeseen or unknown. this to me is probably what's going to be the biggest advantage of having a man in the space program. are things that we don't even foresee right now. >> howard, i remember when we finally turned the corner. the damn soviets were beating us, they're getting sputnik. and finally he gets thereupon and goes around the world three times and we're back in the race. >> and not only that, chris, i was alive in that time, during the kennedy years. and john glenn became the small town ohio expression of camelot,

if you will. he wasn't the fancy guy from the fancy family in the east. he didn't go to harvard. he was a guy from small town ohio who became a hero to the world and to all of america. so politically, it was -- he was, himself, a kind of fulfillment of the kennedy promise. that's what gave him the original lift to get into politics. >> bobby asked him to. >> first with robert f. kennedy, campaigned with robert f. kennedy, and where i came was covering him in the senate and his presidential campaign. >> and you know who understood that being near a hero could benefit him politically was john kennedy and bobby kennedy. when he got back, they instantly befriended him and they launched his career. >> didn't he seem more like a republican to you guys? i never thought of him as a lefty, certainly. but it seems to me if he had a different set of friends, he might have gone to the other party. >> i don't think it was political. it's just who he was. >> space typically has been very bipartisan. i think he just wound up, that's what he grew up with and he stayed where he was. grounded. >> you know what he was?

he was somebody that rejected this notion of identity politics. he was somebody who was an american icon, an american hero. and one of the reasons he didn't do better in 1984, probably, is because walter mondale understood identity politics better than he did. and he was running a different kind of campaign. he was running as the america can, we can win, guy. >> what was better? >> well, i mean -- >> i think he's better. i don't like this identity politics. i used to go to mondale fund-raisers and watch each table and how much they gave. he would go through each table, but never ever said anybody and everybody stood up for him. >> there weren't that many people then or now that could bestride the whole country. >> hillary clinton paid tribute to john glenn today during her visit to capitol hill. let's watch. >> senator john glenn, a friend to many of us and a genuine american hero, passed away today. and i know the tributes will be flowing. i'm sure the congressional record will be filled with pages

of appreciation and recognition of this extraordinary american's life. >> well, president-elect donald trump also made a brief statement about glenn while on his trip to ohio. >> of course, senator john glenn today, the passing of -- he was really -- to me, he was a great american hero. a truly great american hero. i met him on two separate occasions. liked him -- always liked him. but he was, indeed, an american hero. >> what makes guys be like you? i mean, i'm thinking about this. john glenn fought as a fighter pilot in a couple of wars. he survived, which is pretty tough to do in those wars. you could be somebody else's kill. he did that. then he game a test pilot, you know, like mach 1 or mach 2. that's another thing that's very dangerous. and went people die in that, you don't even know -- i don't know who that guy is. he did all of these things that wouldn't have made him famous.

and when he's 77 years old, he goes up in space again. what's the drive? yodid it four times? >> four shuttle flights. same as john, you keep wanting -- he didn't do it to be famous. he didn't do it to get his name in the papers. he did it because it was something that needed to be done. he wanted to go higher, he wanted to go faster. that's the same way as i felt with my career, as i went from being a navy fighter pilot to a test pilot and then an astronaut. >> howard, would you visit a space station if you got a free ride? >> i applied for the journalist in space program. >> then you already have the -- >> because i was a child of sputnik, as you were. and i don't know how much time we have, i hope we get to mention his love of his wife. >> the great annie. 73 years. >> to see the two of them together -- >> you knew they were in love. >> she had a terrible stutter. she was shy in public. he protected her with all of his will and his fame. he threw it like a cloak over

her. >> i'll leave it at that. that you think, howard fineman. and scott altman, shuttle commander, sir. up next, the dangerous game of fake news. the latest, the arrest of a woman who made death threats against the parent of a victim of the sandy hook massacre. she says she believes the school shooting was a hoax. that it never happened. that's something, by the way, being pushed in the fever swamps of the far right. what a rotten thing to sell, that that horror didn't happen anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics. why do some cash back cards make earning bonus cash back so complicated? they limit where you can earn bonus cash back to a few places... ...and those places keep changing every few months. the quicksilver card from capital one doesn't do any of that. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. leave complicated behind. what's in your wallet?

what aremaking a cake!ht now? uh oh. i don't see cake, i just see mess. it's like awful. it feels like am not actually cleaning it up. what's that make mommy do? (doorbell) what's that? swiffer wetjet. this is amazing. woah wow. now i feel more like making a mess is part of growing up. only new wetjet pads have absorb and lock to soak up tough messes and lock them away stop cleaning. start swiffering. ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief,

try doctor-recommended gaviscon. so we know how to cover almost almoanything.hing, even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. december 14th, 2015. and covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

i don't know what really happened. i know there are real mass shootings. i know people lose children. i'm a father. it hurts my heart. so i don't know what the truth is. all i know is, the official story of sandy hook has more holes in it than swiss cheese. >> that's sick. anyway, welcome back to "hardball." that was info wars host alex jones, the liar in chief. just two weeks ago, calling into question the 2012 massacre at sandy hook, really suggesting it didn't happen. he traffics in disinformation and unfounded innuendo. the southern poverty law center called him the most prolific conspiracy theorist in america. yesterday, a woman was charged of making death threats against the parents of a child who died at sandy hook who claimed the attack was a hoax. how'd she get that idea? over the weekend, a north

carolina man entered a pizzeria with an assault rifle looking to self-investigate, that was his phrase, a false conspiracy theory -- well, all conspiracy theories are false -- about hillary clinton. in her second public appearance since the election, hillary clinton weighed in today. >> the epidemic of malicious fake news and false propaganda that flooded social media over the past year, it's now clear that so-called fake news can have real-world consequences. this isn't about politics or partisanship. lives are at risk. lives of ordinary people, just trying to go about their days to do their jobs, contribute to their communities. it's a danger that must be addressed, and addressed quickly. >> for more on the real-world impact of fake news,'m joined by glenn putz. i think you can usually figure out the motive of deniers.

holocaust deniers are anti-semitic. you've got the 6 million names there. you g to the museum here, you see the shoes of millions of people, thousands of people. >> and i'm missing a couple of great-grandparents. >> firsthand, you're a survivor. and we've all met people who are survivors. so -- martin goldsmith, for example. a great guy on radio here, on sirius radio. why do you say something that sandy hook didn't happen, when you see the horror and the parents and the teachers who stood up to the shooter. and there's no reason -- what's the goal here? >> the goal is to undermine the credibility of institutions. like, in the meta sense, this is a guy who thrives -- i don't know if he makes money or gets a modicum of fame or influence. this is a guy donald trump had traffic with. this is a guy that -- general flynn's son retweeted copously. so, essentially, what this is is, you undermine these institutions. you cast doubt on everything. mainstream media, all the institutions in the country.

and then, you get to get your fame and following. >> if you put him in a lie detector, what would happen? do they believe their own stuff? >> i will tell you this. i don't know about him. i don't know the guy. but i do know i get hit by trolls and get a lot of e-mails. i think a lot of people believe this stuff. >> they believe what they're told. but the people who tell them this stuff, do they believe it? the creators of this fake news? >>ly te li will tell you, i dea with -- there's flat-out fake news and people who distort stuff and there are people who have a partisan point of view. i think some people believe this and some people are really cynical. >> do you think the door is closed on that? i worry about the slopping up of stuff. a quality newspaper will pick it up. then a real newspaper will pick it up. or the ap will pick it up. and all of a sudden this germ will work its way through the system where real news networks or wire services or newspapers

will run with something that's totally fabricated. >> i did a pod what's can john dickerson a few months ago, and his position is that even correcting this stuff gives it a second hearing. and i think people -- >> how's that work? >> he just -- his idea. and i think this was based on some research, is that just the repetition of this lie, there are certain people who have selective hearing on this stuff. they're not hearing it being debunked. they're just hearing the original lie. >> do you think people can tell the difference between a straight newspaper report by you and an opinion column? >> no. i think that is the big problem. >> i think it is. that has to be clarified. >> i think people, the way that they consume stuff, the fragmentation of the media and the fact that they've been fed a lot of stuff. by the way, chris, you know this. there's been a 30 to 40-year systemic attack on the legitimacy of the news media. >> i just hope when people watch this show, and i know we have to do more every day to do it, but when you look under the name, who is this person? it says "new york times," "washington post," that's what it means. journalist rerter.

when it says democratic strategist or whatever, advocate, surrogate. >> look at katy tur, what she did, in terms of correcting the record on what trump said, that's a good job. >> thank you so much. up next, the "hardball" roundtable and what we heard at the top of the hour from kellyanne conway and the trump transition, as trump pushes ahead with his thank you tour. he's in iowa tonight. watch the crowds building out there. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive.

why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. [ rock music playing ] have fun with your replaced windows. run away! [ grunts ] leave him! leave him! [ music continues ] brick and mortar, what?! [ music continues ] [ tires screech ] [ laughs ] [ doorbell rings ] when you bundle home and auto insurance with progressive, you get more than a big discount.

that's what you get for bundling home and auto! jamie! you get sneaky-good coverage. thanks. we're gonna live forever! you get sneaky-good coverage. thanks. testinhuh?sting! is this thing on? come on! your turn! where do pencils go on vacation? pennsylvania! (laughter) crunchy wheat frosted sweet! kellogg's frosted mini-wheats. feed your inner kid if you're approaching 65, now's the time to get your ducks in a row. to learn about medicare, and the options you have. you see, medicare doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so if 65 is around the corner, think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. so don't wait. call to request your free decision guide. and gather the information now to help you choose a plan later.

these types of plans let you pick any doctor or hospital that takes medicare patients. and there's a range of plans to choose from, depending on you needs and your budget. so if you're turning 65 soon, call now and get started. because the time to think about tomorrow...is today. go long. well, with president-elect trump continued his thank you tour today out in ohio. he's holding another rally tonight in des moines. he heads to baton rouge, louisiana, and grand rapids, michigan, tomorrow and hershey, pennsylvania, next week. but the campaign's over and a new administration is set to take shape on january 20th, six weeks away. is it time for rallies and speeches to come to an end and let the governing begin? let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable, david corn, and an msnbc political analyst. april ryan is white house correspondent and washington

bureau chief for american urban radio networks. and john fieri is a republican strategist. okay, for the defense, when were the bread and circuses -- or the circuses ended and the bread begin. >> i remember when george w. bush tried to get social security passed by doing a bunch of rallies and wasn't very effective. i think trump can be effective to energize people for his agenda, but he has to apply the inside game. the outside game works to a certain extent. the inside game, to get the stuff done. and it's a little easier, because he has republicans running for both the house and senate. and has a big majority -- >> do you think lock her up will work after january 20th? >> we've got to dispense with the "lock her up" stuff. but there are some legislative things on his agenda he wants to get done. and republicans will be a little bit reluctant. >> how is he going to turn off the really bad stuff? there are some people on the alt-right, the new term for the racist part of our country, they're going to show up on january 20th with their

confederate license plates and riding around town acting like crazy people. and that's going to send a signal to the world that this guy is bringing in the alt-right. >> and a lot of people are saying they're not coming. >> to the inauguration? >> to the inauguration. >> how does he counter that? he counters that by what he's doing now. there's some people within the transition team that are reaching out to the congressional black caucus. there's not a meeting set yet, but the congressional -- >> who's black on the new ticket, the new team? who, besides dr. carson? anybody else? >> right now omarosa is working -- >> oh, god -- >> let it go, let it go, let it go. >> i'm looking at the cabinet level positions. >> i've got sething for you for something you don't know >> when are people going to start pebeating the drum and sa you better start mixing it up. >> that's interesting, because george w. bush had the most diverse administration there is. >> that's the tallist building inst city, right?

you're really saying that w. had a good diverse -- >> no, no, no, he had the most diverse administration, republican administration. not -- yeah, republican. >> low bar. very low bar there. listen, donald trump has not changed his tone. he's punching down, he's attacking labor leaders -- >> why's he doing that? >> well, because that's who he is. he's a bully! he can't help himself! but also, you talk about -- you had kellyanne on earlier and oh, she takes offense when they talk about white nationalism and nationalists with the campaign. the chief strategist in the white house, steve bannon, said that he wanted to promote the alt-right at breitbart. so he wanted to promote racists and white nationalists. so right there, you can't tell me that, oh, boohoohoo, this is not a proper claim that jen palmieri and others are making. then you have michael flynn, he and his son, they both have done this, they tweeted out fake news that led to violence -- >> how much are they responsible for what happened at the pizza joint down the -- >> they're all responsible for promoting this.

>> is michael flynn responsible for this? the guy with the gun? >> no, he's responsible, as is his son -- >> edgar welch walked into that pizza joint on sunday because of what michael flynn's son did? >> no. what i'm saying is, they are contributing to an environment which they're passing around, bad information, that then riles up people. alex jones, who you talked about in the last segment, does this, and they echo him. you invite alex jones to the convention, paychemake him a sp guest. >> explain this. it's like the holocaust. why do people say sandy hook didn't have? all those horrors those parents, those poor kids gunned down. what do you get out of saying it didn't happen? >> look, i think there are some people who are certifiably crazy out there. >> alex jones? >> listen -- >> he is! >> i think there are things on his website that are just made- made-up. >> why is that? >> i don't know. i don't know why. >> i know why. >> it's like westgate baptist church that goes to military funerals because they don't

like -- >> chris, it's not surprise. he does this to make a lot of money and gets a lot of traffic. he's also a gun rights advocate -- >> that's the point. he's trying to -- right, he's trying to dismiss any evidence that they have factual evidence to create a problem for the second amendment. >> okay. thank you. well said. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these people will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," the place for politics. the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. so wherever your

retirement journey takes you, we can help you reach your goals. call us or your advisor t. rowe price. invest with confidence. what bad knee?u'll ask what throbbing head? advil makes pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil. you're looking at a live

picture now from des moines, the latest stop on donald trump's self-styled thank you tour. appearing with the governor of iowa, terry branstad, ambassador to china. actually it's a good pick. we'll take a look at any news that comes out of that event. we'll be right back. when you have type 2 diabetes, there's a moment of truth. and now with victoza® a better moment of proof. victoza lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill, which didn't get me to my goal.

victoza® works with your body to lower blood sugar in three ways: in the stomach, the liver, and the pancreas. and while it isn't for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. non-insulin victoza® comes in a pen and is taken once a day. (announcer) victoza® is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes and is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck or if you develop any allergic symptoms including itching, rash, or difficulty breathing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. so, stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. tell your doctor your medical history. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea ornsulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are headache, nausea,

diarrhea and vomiting. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. now's the time for a better moment of proof. ask your doctor about victoza®. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. david, tell me something i don't know. >> i'd like to get personal. february 20th, 1962, i was 3 years old. >> john glenn. >> my birthday. my birthday party. we watched him go up in space with walter cronkite saying go, baby, go. we then ran to the window to look for john glenn. my first public memory, my hero, first public hero. honor to meet him at this building years later. i want to say good speed, john glenn. >> i was in the peace corps with a guy, when he went to the moon, the whole village, watch, was

that great? go to the moon with the peace corps. april? >> i don't think my -- no, in the mix to head the department of ag, former congressman j.c. watts. >> is it coming? >> he's in the mix. he's in the mix. >> diversify a bit more. >> diversify. yes. yes. >> billionaire, though? >> he's one of the first -- >> he's a great guy, great guy. two things. harry reid secretly admires what mitch mcconnell did on merrick garland, second thing, democrats are refusing -- democrat senators are refusing to meet with trump nominees in the senate. >> is there going to be a filibuster next year or is it gone? harry reid said there's a filibuster soon. >> he helped killed it. >> don't want everything to move too fast under donald trump. david corn, thank you. when we return, let me finish with american hero, john glenn. i got some things to say i know about him. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics.

they are the natural borns enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing.

and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? tmom didn't want another dog. she said it's too much work. lulu's hair just floats. uhh help me! (doorbell) mom, check this out. wow. swiffer sweeper, and dusters. this is what i'm talking about. look at that. sticks to this better than it sticks to lulu. that's your hair lulu! mom, can we have another dog? (laughing) trap and lock up to 4x more dirt, dust and hair than the store brand stop cleaning. start swiffering.

let me finish tonight with a tribute to a square, you know, the guy who gets married young to the girl next door, stays married for life. tries to lead a regular life, have dinner with the kids, spending evenings with his wife, getting a kick out of life, somehow managing not to get distracted from the basics. . for john glenn who died today, that was the deal. he once said he didn't have a fire alarm religion, he said his prayers on a regular basis, not when the panic hit. he was real about this. his heartbeat stayed pretty much the same as his space capsule fresh from circling the globe roared back into the atmosphere. his heat shield, the only thing keeping him from being cooked

alive. he was that calm. that confident. that courageous. glenn spent years as a fighter pilot in two wars then a test pilot which would have been scary enough for most of us. february 1962, he went into space, around the earth, the first american to do it. boy did he make his country proud. people forget in the years after sputnik, we consider ourselves behind in the space race. we've watched several monkeys go up in space while our vanguard missile crashed again and again and again. moscow was beating us. people like president kennedy didn't like it. he declared the united states was going to not just catch the russians, leapfrog them for all the world to see. the united states was going to put a man on the moon within a decade and we did it. john glenn who died today was part of all that. the america/russia greatness in the 1960s. you read about the '60s being about drugs and shootings and hippies. the history books say it's about men with the right stuff, discipline, commitment, guts. john glenn was one of them. his success, what it meant to

this country is a tribute to the squares of the world, men and women with the guts to show up and do the job. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> the forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. >> donald trump called out for giving false hope to the forgotten man has now picked a fight with him. >> i had all kind of threats and stuff over the years so i guess i got a little more thick skin. >> as the trump victory tour continues, union leader chuck jones with his response to t president-elect's provocation. and senator bernie sanders on trump's redefinition of bully pulpit. plus, new reporting on donald trump's plan to keep ties to his businesses. the fast food ceo who wants to replace workers with robots tapped to run the labor department. d