on this friday, i'm alielshi alongside alex witt and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. there's a up in the democratic party that somehow these folks are -- these are good people, man. these aren't racists. these aren't sexists. there's a sense in some of this party that, wait a minute, we either have to tone down our progressive point of view and ramp up what we're going to do about working folks or talk less about working folks and ramp -- there's no conflict. none at all. and so i know i got in trouble at the convention when i spoke, and i talked about why i thought hillary would make such a good president. i said we're not paying enough attention to these people. we're not showing enough respect

to these people. so i said and got some criticism from my own staff because i indirectly was criticizing the campaign, but i wasn't because i know she agreed with me when i said we're not showing enough respect to a segment of the population that is scared to death. elections are supposed to be about referendum on ideas. the direction of the country. so that when a president is elected, they can say this is what i told you i was going to do. a majority of you agreed so this is what i'm going to try to do. but other than make america great again and forward together, what do you know about the last election? >> wow. there is so much there that i don't even know where to begin. >> let's begin. >> he said that during the convention on our show and then

just revealed in that sound bite that he got in trouble with the campaign for saying that. >> what he said on the show was the democratic party was miserably bad. ed rendell came on by the way and said while everyone was saying -- ed rendell said -- >> i wouldn't understand that. >> it was a pencil night geek millennial night. >> i should speak that. that's my language. >> everyone else said, you know, you all are fools for saying there's a shot. ed rendell said the same thing. white working class voters in pennsylvania are not being paid attention to by my democratic party. this is going to be a real problem. >> for speaking up, he got flak. good morning, everyone. >> he got flak.

joe biden got flak. bill clinton was privately saying this in august saying they're not going after the people that elected me in 1992. and they didn't. they lost wisconsin. they lost michigan. they lost pennsylvania. they never should have lost those three states in a million years and hillary clinton should be president right now instead of blaming fake news for her losing. >> with us on set, senior political editor for "huffington post" and ad man donny deutch joins us as well. >> jump in on that. there was such an over focusing on this group and that group and the other group, they kind of forgot the very group that had been the backbone of their base for a generation. >> yeah. i mean, a lot of focus on lgbt bathrooms. very high minded issues and focus on getting out the obama

rainbow coalition, the base. and they threw out the baby with the bath water. in hindsight it's so clear and so obvious yet most of us missed it. it's as simple as that. >> hillary clinton talked about fake news yesterday. blaming fake news and jim comey for that loss. totally ignores what happened in wisconsin and pennsylvania and ohio and states all across the upper midwest. did they have some impact? maybe. comey you said it would and maybe second time he came out with the letter but that's not why she's not president. >> i just remember it came out from other voices on this set, including mine, and calls from the clinton campaign came toward nbc. as if we had sinned for being honest. >> part of the problem was -- >> also look at the end of the campaign. look at who the focus was on

constantly. it was never -- by the way, they didn't need to win a ton of votes in wisconsin to win the state. they didn't need to win a ton of votes in michigan to win the state. the clinton campaign had to bend over backwards to lose this campaign. it is still shocking if you look at the states they lost. no way they should have lost wisconsin. they didn't even show up. there's no way they should have lost michigan. they showed up at the very end. they did not have a message to white working class voters. you're exactly right. there's an obsession on rebuilding the obama coalition and obsession on all of these other things. you can't forget any group. >> the obama coalition included those white working class voters. a lot of people that voted for obama in '08 and '12, voted for trump. the interesting thing was before the first debate there was a well passed around op-edrom two democratic speech writers making this argument saying what

hillary clinton is doing is treating trump as disqualified and unelectable and outside of the mainstream, which is fine. what she should do is treat him like obama treated romney. someone that outsources jobs. make a populist argument about why he's not for the white working class voter. she did that in the first debate. she did a good job in the first debate but then she abandoned it and part of the reason is they thought they needed to disqualify him and part of it is because of the comey letter. she was handed a deck and she had to play it. part of it is just malpractice not showing up in wisconsin. >> such malpractice. trump should have taught everybody you can't disqualify him. if you talk about -- just look at some of the people that he's selecting now in his cabinet. you could have predicted this was coming. if i were hillary clinton, i would have found a clip where donald trump said that we pay

people too much money in america. and played it over and over again. here we have a choice for labor who rejects minimum wage. that's not surprising because donald trump actually said during the campaign we pay americans too much. play that over and over again. turn him into romney. not someone disqualified for the position. instead of saying he's crazy. you should have said this guy could win and it's frightening. the press and everybody felt like they had to tell their great grandchildren that they had beaten donald trump. so everybody was in on this that trump could never win. so if trump can't win, why warn about the fact this guy believes that americans are paid too much. why make the warnings? this guy might put michael flynn in a position of authority and he sits next to vladimir putin at dinners. why do that? you're saying he's so crazy he could never be president. and the press played right

along. >> also, every left brain populist argument such as the argument about we pay people too much like the arguments of trump university, look how he's ripping off these people, did not negate the right brain populist arguments of build a wall and muslim ban and things that really resonated in a very core, deep primal sometime dark way, and i don't think those left brain populist messages were able to overcome what he deviously but brilliantly plugged into. >> they resonated. for example, we would say this message that he had resonated. immediately the attacks came from all sides including the clinton campaign. how dare you support that. we're saying it resonates. and now look at what we have. donald trump's choice for labor secretary. the ceo of a fast food company that owns burger chains carl's jr. and hardees. an outspoken advocate against raising the federal minimum

wage. what is the minimum wage? you can't even live on it. he says it would lead to layoffs and curtail job opportunities for young people. he's also spoken favorably about replacing some fast food employees with robots in response to rising labor cost telling business insider in march, they are always polite, they always upsell, they never take a vacation, they never show up late, there's never a slip and fall or an age, sex or race discrimination case. nice guy. labor groups and democrats have come out again the nomination. incoming senate minority leader chuck schumer said the labor secretary should be someone who wakes up every day thinking about how to raise american wages and fight for american workers. there's even criticism from the right with breitbart news writing that puzder alleges he

prefers foreign labor. >> we have hillary clinton's sound bite standing by also. >> we'll do that along with the labor secretary choice, that adds another multimillionaire to trump's potential cabinet. the wealth of the nominees is something that actually donald trump has gotten a lot of criticism for. last night in iowa, he defended the net worth of some of his appointments. >> some of the people i put on to negotiate you've been noticing are some of the most successful people in the world. one newspaper criticized me. why can't they have people of modest means? i want people that made a fortune because now they're negotiating with you. it's no different than a great baseball player or a great golfer. we want the people that are going to -- they're so proud to do it. these people have given up fortunes of income in order to make a dollar a year. they're so proud to do .

>> so, willie, dwight eisenhower had the belief that he didn't want to appoint anybody to the cabinet that could afford to work and the idea was i want to get ceos at the top of their game and when they come to washington, it's going to be for public service. i don't want professors. i don't want think tank types. i want people out in the wohl rorld that have run big companies and that can run these bureaucracies. >> this should not be a surprise to anyone that watched the presidential campaign for the last year and a half. he talked i'm going to send carl icahn to china. the message of his campaign was think outside washington. think outside the conventional bureaucrat. who are people out in the world who actually get things done. you can disagree with that but you shouldn't be surprised by the choices he's made. >> sam, we were sit hearing wondering how erratic donald

trump would be and how erratic his appointments would be. they've been consistent. they've been extraordinarily consistent ideologically and as willie said, they are basically the type of people that he predicted. you have generals. you have billionaires. and mostly you've got some pretty rigid conservative ideologues. i'm surprised by just how consistent the selections are. are you? >> no. they are also donors. these are people who were on the finance committee or gave to his super pac or gave to his campaign and they supported his cause and he's saying thank you. they are also people who are different than who were in the post to begin with. we're talking not just about minimum wage, immigration, but overtime rules, labor department rules put into place for obama are going to be gone.

these are vast changes in direction. >> can we think of a time where one cabinet and one administration is so opposed to the previous one? i've been going back in my mind. i doubt there was even this much of a change between jimmy carter and ronald reagan. this is a pretty radical shift from what conservatives would say would be far left to what liberals would say are far right. >> if you look at the new labor appointment, he's said publicly that carl's jr. does commercials with girls with bikinis eating burgers and he says i defend girls in bikinis eating burgers in front of cars, that's the american way. across the board there's a testosterone and i don't care and fist in your face to all of these employees, which is very much obviously demonstrative of

who our new commander in chief is. it's an overall attitude no stance across the board. >> are you taking credit for the labor department appointment? >> hardee's was an old client of mine. i can't take credit for that. >> should i awkwardly throw in hillary clinton here? >> on the minimum wage thing, he doesn't believe it should be above $9 an hour. that again shouldn't be surprising to a conservative who believes that raising the minimum wage actually costs jobs. you can disagree with that. >> what if you are a white working class trump voter who -- that's what i'm curious about. do they feel -- they might not mind that he's appointing billionaires to the cabinet. but when they find out that this guy doesn't want to increase the minimum wage and take away overtime rules, do they get upset or -- >> i'm curious. >> or the new health czar. >> they get medicaid away.

>> a lot of stuff happening that might -- >> i'm curious when the rubber hits the road here. sorry. >> this is hillary clinton on capitol hill yesterday talking about fake news. >> it's now clear that so-called fake news can have real world consequences. this isn't about politics or partisanship. lives are at risk. it's a danger that must be addressed and addressed quickly. it's imperative that leaders in both the private sector and the public sector step up to protect our democracy and innocent lives. >> so mika, what do you think about hillary clinton coming out and talking about fake news? >> i'm not sure. i'm really sad about how things have happened. that's what i think of. >> the context of course is what happened -- >> i know context. >> she did call this guy -- i don't think fake news contributed to her loss. i'm not saying that.

>> that's what she's suggesting. >> i think that's wrong. i think it played a role in the conversation of the election. i don't think that's disputable. but it is a big problem, right. it's huge in our industry. >> a problem for ten years. >> it's becoming -- >> have you logged off? >> the ability of these stories to spread and get hundreds of thousands of views and they are not even close to reality, mine, some of the stuff is really insane. >> it's insane what's out there. >> it is insane. it's happened for a long time. it's happened for a long time. >> i don't trust you. >> you can't have the puppy dogs and tutus dancing. so many wonderful things have happened on the internet. >> i don't want to hear about your personal life. >> i got to say, willie, when you look at this fake news and you see what happened up at harvard and you hear everybody writing articles saying

millennials caused hillary clinton the election and dogs with three legs caused hillary clinton the election and comets passing in the night, hillary clinton cost hillary clinton the election. hillary clinton's campaign staff cost hillary clinton the election. >> i don't think people are ready to hear that, joe. >> democrats need to face the fact they need to listen to joe biden and listen -- >> i think he's a better person to say it. >> and listen to ed rendell. listen, if you care about democrats digging out of the hole that they have put themselves in now, you've got to ask yourself, what have democrats done to so offend americans that they only have 11 governorships. they've lost control of the senate. they've lost control of the house. they lost 900 legislative seats over the past six years. six to eight years. six years. past six years they lost over 900. in my home state of connecticut, my god, it was something like, i don't know, democrats were ahead

something like 120 or 130 to 38 or whatever. now it's practically tied. the senate is tied. in blue connecticut. democrats have got to figure out what have they done to offend americans on all levels. it wasn't fake news. it's something much, much bigger and something that's happened for the past six years. >> in the last month i haven't seen a lot of signs of learning. you've heard from joe biden. you heard from tim ryan as he ran in opposition to nancy pelosi focusing on the people that cost democrats the white house this time. it looks to me like doubling down and blaming other things that perhaps didn't have as much influee on the election as they believe it did. >> i have spoken private to leading democrats and the top narratives or feelings that they have are scared to death and really angry. >> mika, if you look at the way we all covered it, we actually were putting a light on it. they would go trump is getting 84% of uneducated white voters,

but hillary clinton is getting 93% of the african-american voters and 84% of the hispanic voters and 43% of the millennial voters. they were articulating the problem as they were covering it saying, well, we know we're not getting piece people but when you put it around the fringes, it will all add up. >> because she did win the popular vote by 2.7 million, the party is going to say, okay, we have a popular mandate here. we have to get people in the right states. that does end up causing some friction with trying to learn the right lessons. >> i remember when he came down the escalator and you know the moment. i remember thinking everyone had reactions where they laughed at the concept. it sent a shiver down my spine. i don't get my party that they are laughing at this. everyone else was too. i was specifically concerned about democrats thinking this is who they would want as the nominee. they could just totally kill

this candidate. >> so if you're a democratic and you're blaming fake news, first of all, you're suggesting that most smart americans can't figure out a difference between real and fake news but secondly, what you're doing is you're focusing on one race. and, again, you're ignoring the fact that four out of five governors are now republicans. that's staggering. you lost 900 legislative seats over the past six years across the country. the republicans control the senate. they're going to win even more most likely in 18 because so many democrats -- democrats have got to face the fact that they have lost middle america. going around saying we won 2.5 million more votes. i understand that frustration. great. take over california. you won california and new york by huge margins. until you change the system, you have to win wisconsin. you have to win ohio. you have to win michigan.

and talking about elizabeth warren going out and saying we got more votes for senate candidates and more votes for -- as i said a couple weeks ago. if football championships were won by who ran the fastest down the field, i guarantee you nick saban's team would be the fastest in america. that's not how you win football games. it's not how you win presidential elections. banking votes in california. >> np hillary clinton's defense she gave a nice long tribute to harry reid and that was one part of the speech she made there. i can understand from her point of view, she got more than 2.5 million more votes than her opponent. she's looking for reasons and answers. it's the people around her this the democratic party that need to look at what happened and why it really happened and i do think we talked about it a lot in realtime in september but not as much in the post-mortem, the deplorables comment. that comment hit so hard to so many people in the states that

decided the election. when history looks at it, it will be her 47% comment. >> it cut deep. you're absolutely right. >> that's a great point. >> it's fascinating where we started here this morning. joe biden. i think he deserves a hug. >> that was great. >> donny. >> it's a good point. no one has talked about it. >> the 47% comment. >> now joe biden -- >> a rallying cry for his people. >> talking about what he said on our show during the conventions was actually not listened to but he got a lot of flak for it. >> mocked and ridiculed. again, i will say -- >> he said he got into trouble. what does that mean? >> i read something where somebody was sniveling at donna brazile saying that you're going to die of old age and we're going to die of climate change and all this stuff. >> i was concerned the campaign

was not understanding that perhaps there was an arrogance that needed to get off their high horse and say it wasn't over i'll say nbc got a call from the campaign. i had done something that was journalistically inappropriately or something and needed to be pulled off the air. think about that. that's just shooting the wrong messenger. >> there were also people surrounding the campaign that tried to tell the campaign it was in trouble. those people were shut out. >> and here we are. alex wants us to go to break. still ahead on "morning joe," how times have changed. >> when was the last time a leader asked the american people for commitment and sacrifice? not just telling them whatever they want to hear. when was the last time a leader set lofty goals and challenged us to reach for them. >> to compare our students with other students around the world, we rank 10th.

we ought who hang our heads in shame. we rank 10th in education with our own kids in this country. >> wow. that was part of the campaign ad from john glenn in 1984. he passed away yesterday at the age of 95. we'll track his trajectory from space pioneer to statesman when tom brokaw joins us along with mike barnicle and we'll talk to republican senator rob portman of ohio and former homeland security secretary janet napolitano joins us on set. we'll be right back. three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels.

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generosity is its oyou can handle being a mom for half an hour. i'm in all the way. is that understood? i don't know what she's up to, but it's not good. can't the world be my noo? get your mind out of the gutter. mornings are for coffee and contemplation. that was a really profound observation. you got a mean case of the detox blues. don't start a war you know you're going to lose. finally you can now find all of netflix in the same place as all your other entertainment. on xfinity x1. >> john boehner was speaker of the house until last year did an interview yesterday in cincinnati about his life after politics and, well, look at this. >> it's been more than a year since john boehner resigned as

speaker of the house. how's life? >> hallelujah, hallelujah. >> are you enjoying the freedom of being able to say whatever you want, like, for instance saying that ted cruz was lucifer. he was lucifer in the flesh. most miserable person i ever had to work with. >> remember when john boehner was the most orange politician we had? >> my gosh. >> that's crazy. >> sources close to donald trump and familiar with his thinking tell "morning joe" that mitt romney and the chairman and ceo of exxon mobile rex tillerson remain at the top of trump's li for choices of secretary of state. senate foreign relations committee chairman bob corker also under consideration. romney visited new york city yesterday to deliver a long planned paid speech and did not meet with trump.

sources inside trump's circle saying last week's dinner between the two was a grand slam. a point echoed by those close to romney. sources close to trump also say this week's meeting with rex tillerson was "great." adding that exxon mobil ceo who barely does interviews seemed to know about global affairs and world leaders than some of those trump has talked with. yesterday trump met with retired admiral. >> when i first heard there was a short list, i thought they were referring to a list of short people, which as you see i would definitely be on that list. in terms of any job, i would say why don't you talk to the folks upstairs. >> during the campaign he had been vetted by hillary clinton's team for vice president position. >> what happened to rudy? >> rudy is out in the cold now. he's not secretary of state.

what's left? >> the thing is all of the things that he seemed most qualified for, dhs, ag, he didn't want to do. >> he just wanted to be -- >> you know, i remember when i had first put out that rex tillerson was under consideration, there was some people that said the same as when i said nikki haley was going in to talk to trump and people taasking what's the contt for that? context is that rex tillerson is going in tomorrow. if i had a dark horse even though he said yesterday trump probably shouldn't pick a ceo of exxon mobil after his epa pick, it's obvious they don't care and so if there were a dark horse, it would be rex tillerson.

they love that guy. >> where did he -- obviously he's the ceo but where did he come from all of a sudden as a consideration. my sources tell me that a top foreign policy expert whom donald trump respects and who a lot of people respect suggested that he look at rex tillerson because he had been around the world for 20, 30 years. been ceo of one of the largest companies and actually would know all of the arenas across the world as much or probably better than any politician because he spent his life on planes going all over the world. and knows the world leaders. and has done the deal. >> you're the ceo of a fortune 50 company and global company like that, you basically have had to figure out your way around the world more than the average diplomat actually. >> i personally think that -- i

personally think there needs to be more balance and again after the epa pick, i would be very concerned about an exxon mobil ceo being in that position. >> it's a global energy company that will intersect with state department decision making. there's this whole issue of conflicts that i think come into play in a way that i don't think the trump people really appreciate. obviously they don't because he's got his own issues there. you know, i'm surprised romney has lasted this far. i didn't think this was coming. i'm also surprised giuliani is gone. i thought giuliani endured himself and such a cheerleader of the campaign that -- >> so let's talk about for one second we need to go to break. i think this is important. we talk about donald trump that we all thought that he was going to -- look at the people out in the cold right now. newt gingrich. chris christie who put his

little life on the line for him. christie stuck his neck out at a time when he needed -- >> that's amazing. >> nowhere. newt gingrich who a lot of people were talking about there in the cabinet. i think he'll find a place for rudy. he would be a great ambassador to italy, which is a pretty important post especially now. >> tell that to rudy. >> you look at mike huckabee and sarah palin and santorum and the other people. there was a politico article about the people close to him. looks like kellyanne is going to be outside of the administration. i actually see all of this as a positive that you have a guy that is selecting the best people. it's not just about handing out goodies to everybody that worked for you. >> i like the overabundance of

ceos. >> do you really? >> from an ideological point of view, these are people that run stuff and get stuff done. to me the overabundance of generals and ceos putting people in charge that are in charge of stuff as opposed to just legislating stuff. >> it's a great point. also on the generals -- do we have a read on the generals? >> there is a lot of criticism that there are too many generals at the top of the inner circle at this point. >> mattis and kelly, thoughtful guys. not pound the fist kind. let's shoot the missiles. >> i know what you're talking about which is that -- here it is right here. >> it's not the first time. >> obama had the same amount. >> barack obama had the same amount of generals except he had three four stars. trump has two four stars and one three star. so actually obama wins somebody

wrote yesterday. 12 stars to 11 stars. dennis blair, jim jones, the general who ran nsa and then you had general shinseki who ran the va. >> i think the difference that people are pointing to is mattis had dod. it's the same number of generals. >> still ahead this morning -- >> you talk about resume rights abusers in china much could be said about russia as well. >> baloney. where do you come from? >> i come from the former soviet union. that's where i came from. i came here as a political refugee. that's where i came from. >> what country did you say? >> the former soviet union. >> that's good. then the audience knows you're bias. >> i'm bias? >> i still can't get over that. >> you're bias because your family came over as political

refugees from the former soviet union? he's attacking a woman whose family fled the soviet union saying that vladimir putin may have some human rights issues. >> not only is it ugly, it's dumb. it doesn't make sense logically. her family fled the soviet union so her bias would be -- >> so she's going to join us on the heels of her heated interview. first, jeffrey goldberg joins the table. "morning joe" comes right back.

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>> can we see the tree? it makes little kids all across the world come and want to spend

money -- >> it shines so bright that kids can't help but say can i have your credit card? >> right under the nbc experience store. >> joining the table is editor in chief of the atlantic magazine jeffrey goldberg. good to have you here. >> how are you? >> i'm doing well. how is the transition at the public going? >> well, i appointed several generals. they know how to run stuff. i'm trying to get the ceo of exxon to be my culture editor. looking for an opening to russia so it's going well so far. >> how's the president-elect's transition going? let's talk about foreign affairs instead of -- we can talk about domestic. we talked about it here, hard right cabinet. what are you looking at when you look at mattis and you look at

flynn and some of the others. >> looking at flynn and mattis you are looking at two different things in a different way. he's been nicknamed "mad dog" but i know him as well. sober minded guy. thoughtful guy. historian. will have, i think, and hope a moderating influence on some of the dialogue. >> do you feel better knowing that if he is the dominant voice in that administration, which all indications are he is going to be the dominant voice, should americans feel a bit of relief knowing that? >> yes. i feel that personally. >> what do you know about him that should make us feel better? >> he is a hard liner on iran and on certain issues. and it's going to be very different approach to certain countries that you would have under him. on the other hand, he believes that having a tough posture is a deterrent in itself and that countries will look at him. that's part of the "mad dog" image is that i'm not going to

mess with this guy because he's tough and that actually stops wars from happening. that's a theory >> do you have a favorite of all of the names you've heard for secretary of state? >> am i allowed to have a favorite as editor of a magazine? >> i think so. >> why don't i rephrase that to make it easier for you to answer in that position. are there some that cause you greater concern than others? do you hear other nominees would balance out your concerns? >> i know that giuliani is not in the running anymore. one would say, not me, but one would say that you don't want somebody -- >> this boy is good. >> i went to editor school last week. >> the phrase is usually some are saying. >> it's out there. >> one might say. >> one might say that rudy giuliani is not temperamentally disposed to that kind of job.

one could say that mitt romney is very disposed. the question is not -- i'm sort of guessing that it's a romney pick. but that would be interesting and obviously comforting in a lot of ways to a lot of people known quantity establishment guy. i don't know how much power he'll have in the first shakedown cruise of the trump administration. i would assume a lot of people we're talking about on foreign security complex won't be there in a year. that also happened in the obama administration. that's not a rare occurrence. >> i suspect especially general flynn. >> speaking of general flynn, barry mccaffrey changed his opinion on the national security adviser after taking a closer look at flynn's use of social media. general mccaffrey acknowledged while he was initially supportive of michael flynn for the nsa spot, his position changed after reading flynn's controversial tweets that shared various fake news stories. >> you know, i was very strong

in my endorsement of him when he was first announced for the position. i said he was correctly probably the best intelligence officer of his generation. but i must admit i'm now extremely uneasy about some of the tweets, which don't sound so much as if they are political but instead border on being demented. it's extraordinarily important position in government. it has tremendous opportunity to shape the course of foreign policy and defense policy. i think that we need to aggressively examine what was going on with general flynn and his son dealing with these transparent nearly demented tweets that were going out. i think it needs closer scrutiny. >> driving home the demented talking point. you have to say it twice.

>> a reminder the position of national security adviser does not require senate confirmation. concerns about general flynn? >> yes. yes! yes! >> my spokeswoman is saying yes. >> come on, jeffrey. >> some would say that i have 11 or 12 concerns about general flynn. this is the exact opposite kind of personality you want in the national security adviser position. national security adviser position is supposed to take in the input from the departments from defense, state and so on and process that for the president present a menu of options. >> deep thinking. >> and calm. >> extremely calm. >> i learned something in that interview with barry mccaffrey other than big words -- >> how do you really feel about demented tweets? >> one of the things that did surprise me, he said that general flynn he considered him

to be one of the finest intel minds of his generation, which is pretty remarkable. the question is how did he get from there to where he is now? barry mccaffrey saying that about you, it doesn't get better than that. >> in iraq he was known as a great terrorist hunter. but that's all on the level -- that's a tactical job when you move to strategy it becomes a slightly different thing. he was forced out. he's the rigid guy. i think there's a lot of rese resentimenresen resentimenresen resentments that boil up over time. >> i was talking to a couple foreign policy types that don't want to work in the administration precisely because michael flynn will be there. they think he's erratic and they know he pushes conspiracy theories and so i think that on the second tier levels, trump might actually have some real

trouble getting some good staff members in there. >> i've been critical of general flynn from the start. i didn't think this was a good selection. i will say, jeffrey, as you read the tea leaves, i do love the fact that he was the one that brought in bob gates to trump tower and when trump and gates weren't talking and he's going to be getting regular advice from bob gates. this isn't to alleviate any of the concerns that we all share. >> there's always this theme do they grow into that job and do they understand the model of this job? there have been -- we don't have to talk about that at the table. we know what a good national security adviser looks like and they bring in outside opinions. >> i'm just -- nepotism rules in conversations. >> her father watches.

she's not going to talk to him if you don't say his name. >> brzezinski. there's a model. >> he lost his soul. >> there's a model. >> i'm trying to talk about national security adviser position here. there's a model. if you can fill that model, the president gets good advice. if you don't do the job the right way, the president is siloed off from reality. >> some would say that your father may have actually sometimes put his hand on the scale. some would say. >> some would say. >> some would say that. on the other hand, some would say that he knew an awful lot about the job. >> exactly. thank you. >> you're never coming back. >> this is not the seat i wanted to be in. >> let's go to the public sometime and see what you're

doing there. >> we're at the watergate. we can visit the garage and my office overlooks the monica lewinsky memorial pool. >> she stayed at the watergate after the stacandal erupted. >> nice view of the river. saudi embassy. it's a lovely location. >> i love that run. >> do you guys have a statue of michael kelly? >> we should. his portrait is on the wall. >> was he not the greatest editor? >> an old friend of mine. >> still to come, we talk about the story a bit yesterday. and the life expectancy of the average american is on the decline. we're going to bring in some doctors to find out how serious this development is. we'll be right back. when standard cancer treatment no longer works

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55 past the hour. a bill to keep the government running through the new year is in the hands of the senate. the bill passed the house yesterday includes a measure to expedite the confirmation process for defense secretary. there's a fight over the health benefits of coal miners which could delay senate passage beyond midnight when the government's current funding expires. ash carter is on an unannounced visit to afghanistan. the pentagon says he'll meet with commanders about the fight against terrorism and of course thi thank the troops for their service and we're following developments in south korea south korea. more than two-thirds of the 300

lawmakers voted in favor of impeachment of their president. park has been engulfed by a corruption scandal in recent weeks with her public approval rating plummeting near zero. >> that's not good. >> coming up, as nbc's tom brokaw reported. john f. kennedy had a goal and john glenn made it happen. >> we choose to go to the moon not because they are easy but because they are hard. >> kennedy wanted to catch up to the russians on the race into space and decided the moon was the goal. but first steps first. >> god speed, john glenn. >> to meet the president's challenge, john glenn became the first american to orbit the earth. >> ahead on "morning joe," tom brokaw remembering john glenn.

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afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. >> i was lucky enough to receive the "time" person of the year. they used to call it man of the year. they can't do that anymore so they call it person. they want to be politically correct. that's okay. they talked about heads-up a divided nation on the cover. they giv me this honor and they ve to go a little bit of this stuff. a divided nation. i said, i haven't been

president. what are you saying that for? you know what? we're going to bring the nation together. we're going to bring the nation together. >> all right. top of the hour on this friday, december 9th. joining the table, associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. >> how's godzilla doing? >> well, i don't know how he's doing right now. >> is he getting more powerful? >> he's going to be the president. these cabinet picks are kind of all over the map like everybody else i would say mattis is a really good choice. like everybody else i would say flynn is not such a good choice. i had that conversation with general mccaffrey back when he

was -- before when he was ready to give flynn the benefit of the doubt. you know, he said what he has said publicly now which was that flynn was in his view what he told me he was the best intelligence officer of his generation. >> isn't that amazing? >> if you needed a really bad guy found or taken out, and you couldn't figure out how to do it, he said you called flynn. flynn would figure it out. flynn would get it done. but he said there was some point at which -- this is even before he read all of the tweets. there was some point at which flynn went off. flynn went in some different direction and began believing the conspiracy theories and got deep into anti-islam opposed to anti-terrorism mindset so there were concerns he was at that time several weeks ago kind of

we'll see. give him benefit of the doubt. he's a brilliant guy. now general mccaffrey said no. >> sounds like an extraordinarily talented guy but extraordinarily flawed guy too. you wonder if he can clean up these tweets and clean up the conspiracy theories and if we can get some of that other guy in there. i never knew that general mccaffrey and others had such a high opinion of him. >> you can erase tweets, but i don't know if you can clean up. it's logical to be afraid of islam and these are thoughts that came out of his head. i don't know how you clean that up. >> there were tweets that he retweeted where no jews. that has to be explained. you can't simply put out a statement. he needs to sit down.

"60 minutes." he needs to explain it and get it the bind him. >> i think bannon needs to explain things. he has said things that are concerning. some things you can't put your head in the sand. >> i will tell you that general flynn is in a far more pivotal position than -- not just steve bannon but almost anyone in the administration. americans need to have a sense of comfort with this guy, and he's the one that put himself behind the 8 ball with people had a had great, great respect with him before. he's the one that needs to clean it up. >> he's been on the show. >> he needs to do it publicly. >> i don't know. >> some people don't understand how important that position is though. you have the president's ear. you are shaping the view of events. >> you sometimes have the ability -- you are shaping what gets to the president. that's as important as it gets. >> the call my dad got in the middle of the night.

that's the call flynn could get. >> soviets launched nuclear weapons. dr. brzezinski, what should we do? >> he sat there and didn't tell my mom because we are all going to be dead in half an hour so let me think about this. >> don't think too long. >> think fast. >> you want that position to be kind of counterintuitive of what the president is in terms of pefrp temperament. you want that balance. >> you don't want a guy that believes every conspiracy theory. >> what i've heard from people around trump that are very concerned about donald trump having people around him that keep him steady is they do say that flynn behind closed doors is the opposite. >> does that for him. >> of this image that he is the guy that actually tells trump we need to do that. no, you can't do that. let me explain why you can't do

that. if you do that -- so what people close to trump who want to keep trump on a level playing field, they actually say you've got it backwards. everybody has it backwards on this guy. if that's the case. we all hope that's the case. general flynn needs to show us that. i do say there needs to be something like "60 minutes." >> we have a show right here. one-on-one. let's do it. >> thank you, sam. >> by the way, this is "60 minutes" now. stop bowing at that alter. >> this is 180 minutes. >> 180 minutes. >> we have more minutes. >> you know, this explains why i think the congressional waiver that general mattis is going to need to sail through in a new

york minute. last thing you would want with flynn as national security adviser is some sort of novice civilian in charge of the pentagon who is going to get rolled by flynn so you're going to want mattis there who won't get rolled by anybody. certainly not at the pentagon. >> flynn said mattis is smarter than every general ever including him. he outranks him. trump will defer to general mattis. >> let's get other news in about transition. donald trump's choice for labor secretary is andy puzder. the ceo of the fast food chain that owns carl jr. and hardee's. he suggest that raising the minimum wage will lead to layoffs and curtail job opportunities for young people and has talked about using

robots in place of employees. robots are always polite. they always upsell. they never take a vacation. they never show up late. there's never a slip and fall or an age, sex or race discrimination case. >> true. until they kill you. >> i've seen the movies. >> they always turn on you in the end. come on. this guy is clearly unqualified. >> labor groups and democrats have come out gets puzder's nomination. chuck schumer said the labor secretary should be someone who wakes up every day thinking about how they can raise american wages and fight for american workers. mr. puzder's career has shown exactly the opposite. there's even criticism from the right with breitbart news writing that puzder is opposed to trump's signature issues on trade and immigration alleging he prefers foreign labor. >> gene, in your years reporting

because i can't think of it, can you think of one administration moving to another that is going to shift as this one? i don't think a lot of people expected trump to be -- we all said he was ideologically void and didn't believe in anything, if you look at his cabinet selections, you would say this is one of the most moored cabinets and looks like ted cruz's cabinet. >> temperamentally and psychologically one could argue. it's a very, very, very conservative cabinet. a couple of specific questions are going to be asked about puzder in confirmation hearings. one, views on immigration and as breitbart pointed out i've seen on the internet so it must be true quotes from him in favor of

comprehensive immigration reform. a senate bill which donald trump wouldn't like very much. the second thing -- >> it's cheap labor. >> the second thing would be the hardee's and carl jr.'s commercials with kate upton. you might want to check those out. >> to your point -- >> let mika talk. >> i've seen those. here's the thing. i really think that this position along with a number of key positions in this administration ought to focus on wages and women. as the key to this economy. >> those commercials focus on women but not in a way that -- >> i know. i'm disturbed. actually -- >> we should run them so the audience understands what we're talking about. >> this is a weak spot for this president-elect and weak spot for our country. i know that donald trump doesn't agree in equal pay as

legislation but what's his answer to the pay disparity problem in this country? how is he going to focus on -- i'm serious. >> the answer is kate upton on the back of a convertible eating a cheeseburger. >> there was a report recently that this is where -- >> donny likes it. >> soi depending on how much influence, maybe she can do good. >> that's where her role needs to be key. she needs to focus on those things. that has to be important. her team and everything she does on that issue, it can't be a side issue. it can't turn into the white house counscil on women and girs year seven. >> if it's just ceremonial, it's nothing. to your point, the difference is

much more vast than minimum wage. there is a whole set of labor regulations and overtime rules that puzder is going to try to unravel. and epa choice and the question we asked in the last block which is the $1 million question about the trump early years is when does the working white working class coalition that wanted to put their hopes in this guy get tired of what happens? will it be minimum wage? will it be overtime rules? will it not be? will it be something else? >> when democrats step forward with a compelling package and a compelling narrative to sell to voters in white working class voters in wisconsin, white working class voters in michigan, you know, when i said white before during the campaign, focus on that like joe biden did, you're a racist. the whites have been in charge. the attacks would be crazy. this isn't about what i want. this is about what the democratic party should want. you need a rainbow coalition

including white working class voters that should be voting democratic every two years. >> you said package. they need a personality. they need a transformative -- that's what bill clinton was. i would go on the premise that you could take the identical records that hillary delivered during this campaign and come through a different messenger. that person is not there. there is nobody right now looking at the party that is front and center. there will be a person. that's what will change it. until it's that power of that personality, that's what ronald reagan did. it's as simple as that's what donald trump did. >> trump has to find a way. by the way, the labor secretary, the ad you're talking about, i don't have kate upton for you, but i have someone who is news worthy. this is his commercial. i'm just telling you. >> i would like to analyze this for you. >> you can take it down now.

>> how many burgers do you think she actually eats? >> let mika talk. >> this has got to be -- you don't need to say anything. i just think that if this is ivanka's role, it needs to be as high level as any other job we're talking about here because this feels like the world is closing in against women here unless we make it in the forefront. >> we did elect a president who we do know what he said -- pageants and talks about grabbing -- >> we haven't done that before? don't even. >> let's not go back. i don't think we can demonize a commercial. clearly the women of america have to take some responsibility and say we were okay to overlook this. we said, you know what? it is what it is. so we have to be very careful with this. the women had the ability to stand up and they chose to go in

another direction. >> i'm going to give you a break and not respond. >> i think the point that we're trying to make is there has to be balance in this cabinet. and it's not just balance of, well, we'll get a black eye and we will get hispanic woman or we'll get an indian american. there has to be more balance in this cabinet. if you are right now a woman or you're one of these working class voters in wisconsin and you're looking at who has been selected or who has been talked about -- by the way -- >> maybe you think you're not part of this conversation. >> i'm a conservativconservativ. i want a conservative cabinet. i also want a balance. i'm not seeing balance in these cabinet selections.

i think i don't want ep director or labor secretary as a conservative to be what barack obama would want there. but we do seem to be going awfully far in the other direction. there needs to be balance. >> we'll see what happens. >> it's not just there. jeff sessions at ag is a total difference from loretta lynch. >> i think that's a good thing. >> that's my point. >> as a conservative, i'm glad conservatives are getting some of these positions. i don't see a whole lot of mainstream moderate types in there. james bakers. i don't see a lot of those. >> even his plan going on was not for them. >> classic conservatives. >> they were not -- that's the point. he won wisconsin and he won

wisconsin and he won pennsylvania and he won this election not by getting people that think like paul ryan or not by getting people who think like newt gingrich. >> it wasn't the fan club that elected him. >> he won the election in those states because they thought they were getting somebody different. somebody nonideological and he may end up being that way. his cabinet is pretty darn rtisan. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> would you agree with that, mika? >> i'm still waiting for some other things to happen. it definitely looks that way. >> i think secretary of state pick is so important. it would be a great counterbalance to some of these elections. >> remembering pioneer john glenn's ride into history from war pilot to test pilot to first american to orbit the earth, tom

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>> god speed, john glenn. the clock is operating. we're under way. >> on february 20th, 1962, john glenn was forever married to history. the last surviving member of the "mercury 7" died yesterday at the age of 95. he flew 149 combat missions

during world war ii and the vietnam war. he and baseball icon ted williams were wing men in korea flying half their missions together and john glenn returned to space at the age of 77. the oldest human ever to do so. glenn ran for president in 1984 as a pragmatist and moderate arguing for fiscal responsibility and cuts to defense spending but within reason those positions came in sharp contrast among a field that including gary hart, jesse jackson and walter mondale. >> i see myself as the only moderate left here. i don't believe in politics of momentum that seems to be abroad. politics of stampede. whatever you want to call it. i say don't throw away your common sense. your vote next week i guarantee

you i'll give you a presidency you can be proud of once again. >> he lost two bids for the senate before winning in 1974, he served four terms in the upper chamber and was there when the first tv cameras were allowed to broadcast. >> mr. president, this is the first day of television in the united states senate. i voted for that because i think the people of this country do have a right to know. we've had committee meetings about what the camera angles will be. and how to best keep your head up and look at those cameras. and we have had meetings about how to hold a mike so you don't make some noise such as that rubbing against my clothing here. those of us with thinning hair lines or little hair on the head have been advised that you do not lean over like this into the camera. i wish to note we had advice on

how to do this and how to make certain that we cut that shine on the head, and if necessary, how to do the eye shadow. after we have that done, of course, we may even want to perhaps be certain that everything is done properly for the camera. mr. president, these are just a few of our concerns here in the senate, and i'm sure that none of us will do a thing differently in the senate of the united states now that we are on television. >> wow. joining us now nbc news special correspondent tom brokaw, veteran columnist mike barnicle and award winning author and nbc news presidential historian micha michael. >> explain what john glenn's moment in history meant. >> i was 22 when he went up.

there had been a lot of catastrophes on the launch pad. we didn't know what would happen. i was down with john at the capsule himself. the smart cars you see around new york, those are limousines compared to what he rode around in. on re-entry they were worried about the heat shield coming loose and as they came back in, he said it's the only time when his heart rate spiked a little bit. he made it back in. coolest customer you could possibly imagine. i think of norman rockwell drawing the american hero, it would be john glenn. small town ohio. marries not just his high school sweetheart but someone he met in a crib next to him when he was a young man. serves in two wars. was a senator. always modest about his accomplishments. i've been at ohio state for his college for public affairs which

they established out there. a lot of people didn't know this. the last time i went two years ago, i walked in, and he said i can't see as well as i once did. it's hearteaking because his vision had been 20/20 until he was 88. >> michael, talk about the importance to americans to the u.s. government what john glenn did and how america stopped for those moments when he took off and was up in space? >> america did. it was because it was not only an act of heroism and courage but at the moment john glenn seemed to be the guy winning the cold war because john kennedy was making the argument we had to get to the moon before the russians or were in danger of losing the cold war.

when glenn went up, the soviets had gone up and we had not made an orbital flight. glenn did and john kennedy being great politician said i'm going to use him for politics. glenn can't go on anymore missions because he's too great a hero. we can't risk him. he and bobby went to glenn and said you've got to go into politics. so when john kennedy went to dallas in november of 1963, they had planned for glenn to run for the senate in ohio the next year and of course when glenn announced a couple months later, john kennedy was gone and had been assassinated and that was his first race. i think kennedy hoped that john glenn would be on democratic ticket in some way in 1968. >> mike maribarnicle, his wing was the greatest hitter in the history of the world, ted williams. talk a little bit about tir relationship. >> that's right, willie. ted williams always said that if he had not been the greatest

hitter whoever lived he would have stayed in the marine corps and been the greatest fighter pilot the marine corps ever had. john glenn's life was a trajectory of the american story. world war ii, korea, one of the seven original "mercury" astronauts and a truly humble guy. they had a night for ted williams in boston in 1988. john glenn was there along with several other icons and glenn was electric in just his appearance. he never articulated anything about what he had done or who he was. as michael and tom pointed out, when that rocket ship sailed around the globe in february of 1962, america still was not out of the bad morale.

you had bay of pigs. berlin wall. john glenn and what he did that day and with his entire life was a true statement about what it is to be an american. >> tom, you spoke with him on the 50th anniversary of kennedy's assassination next to his space capsule. take a look. >> does this thing look any larger or smaller to you every time you come by? >> it always looks small. it looks small when we're getting ready to go in '62 also. >> when you launched to make the first american orbital flight of this precious planet, the rest of us all had our hearts in our throat watching. >> had reservations. i can't say i was 100% convinced. it's something that was important for the country and something you're committed to do. >> kennedy and glenn became friends and the 92-year-old former astronaut, marine hero,

still believes in what their generation wanted for their country. >> wow. that must have been incredible. >> you know, i really in the last several years i've been around him a lot. i went out to ohio state twice for his college of public affairs and i was always inspired by him. we were in an auditorium one day when veterans were there and they stood up and they saluted him. i got emotional just watching that about what he meant to that generation and not a mark on his reputation all those years as a public figure, nothing you can point to and say he went too far or tried to cut a deal. he didn't use his celebrity to make a lot of money. he was flying his own airplane back to ohio in washington until he was in his late '80s quite honestly. i liked being around him because it gave me a lift and everyone in the room a lift i think. >> michael and mike, i'll throw this out to both of you guys. michael, we'll start with you. my father used to have us all go

to church, sunday school, with all of the apollo tie tacks. we have pictures of astronauts in our house. the papers with neil armstrong walking on the moon. they were saved. some framed. how can you begin to explain to people that were born after that time what astronauts like john glenn meant to the united states of america and their people in the 1960s? >> you are so absolutely right, joe. i've got two sons who are now 20 and 22. for years i've been trying to explain to them what a big deal astronauts were and especially john glenn. they understood it intellectually but the biggest difference is you go back to early 1960s, we all had heroes that cross cut every single category in america. everyone admired them.

one thing is nowadays we're so fracture and people are so much in many cases into their own thing, just think and try to come up with some replica or some equivalent of john glenn in 2016. very hard to do. >> and even today when i see the shot of a rocket going up with a camera above it, you can't help but get chills because that takes you back to that moment in time where that seemed to symbolize that even though the streets were filled with protesters and this country seemed to be tearing apart, we were doing one thing right. >> joe, the rockets that we see on tv today or have seen in the past, those rockets allowed the rocket that took john glenn into space for the first time as an american around the earth, that rocket was loud but john glenn

was not loud. his service, his career was humble and quiet and on the day that rocket left the earth on february 1962 at cape canaveral, this country, much of the country, listened to it on radio. gathered around radios in gas stations and school auditoriums that tv was nowhere what it is today but john glenn remained true to who he was. the spirit of his life. the spirit of his service until the day he died. >> mike barnicle, tom brokaw, michael beschloss, thank you all very much for remembering john glenn with us. coming up, former homeland security secretary janet nap e tell tonno is here.

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>> they can say because of me and people like me who risked all to protect millions, millions who will never know my name is why we still have an

america. for those of you tonight and all of the families lost the light of their lives, they can say to every american that it was my boy, it was my girl, who stood their post and did their duty into eternity. >> 40 past the hour. that was retired general john kelly at an event in 2014 honoring gold star families. general kelly's son w killed in 2010 while serving in afghanistan. kelly is expected to be president-elect donald trump's choice to lead the department of homeland security. joining us now, former secretary of homeland security and two term governor of arizona, jan a also bianna golodryga joins us. we'll talk about that coming up.

great to have you back on the show. >> thank you. >> first of all, i would love to get your thoughts on the pick for homeland security or suspected pick. >> i think, you know, all things considered is a good pick. the secretary has to be someone that can multitask. you have counterterrorism to transportation to cybersecurity to immigration. you name it, it comes to the department of homeland security so having someone with experience and can lead a large complicated organization makes a lot of sense. >> you lead a huge university system. there's a lot of concern after the election. a lot of people feeling like their lives may change. you have a specific issue in your school system because of a number of undocumented students. tell us about that. >> that's right. we probably have about 4,000 undergraduates who are deferred

action for childhood arrivals. these are dreamers. they basically were brought here as young people. they did well in school. they've had a criminal history check. they've had a security check. they've gone through all of the background checks. and they've done well enough to be admitted to the university of california, which is not the easiest thing in the world to do. but it was created by an order i issued as secretary of homeland security so it's easily erased. >> and job of secretary of homeland security is to be a communicator with the public and we remember the concerns and outrage that was raised by a lot of americans concerned about syrian refugees coming into the u.s. whether they were probably vetted and whether they were terrorists and what have you. i spent time with a family in connecticut that the husband found a job as a baker. they have two beautiful young children. they could be your next door neighbors. having said that, there is some criticism about whether your department or dhs did enough to communicate to americans that

their concerns should be alleviated and there's a vetting process in place and terrorists are not coming in. >> right. so i think that's important for the public to know that the vetting occurs overseas. it's very thorough. it takes months if not years for refugees to be vetted and to pass those checks in order to come to the united states. and we're talking a lot of mothers and children and families and they need a place to be at rest and peaceful and not living in a war zone. it's entirely appropriate that the united states, like other countries, take some of these refugees. >> i know you weren't thrilled that donald trump won the presidential election. i wonder what you make of the last month or so of how he's conducted himself during the transition and people he's chosen and people he's appointed. are you more or less hopeful for his administration than you were the day he was elected? >> i think time will tell the tale of the tape. he has a lot of people that have no experience. some may think that's a good

thing. running these big cabinet departments, these are big jobs. and kind of coming in with no experience in government and politics or any of the levers that make things work in a large agency will be a test for some of these nominees. >> you think the ceo for secretary of state, someone like rex tillerson, would be a bad idea and you rather see someone with better government experience. >> we don't know what they'll do once they're in the government. some will be surprised. they'll be surprised about what they can do. they'll also be surprised at some of the limitations on what they can do. >> that's the shocker. >> they'll be surprised about congressional oversight. that will come as an unpleasant surprise. >> janet napolitano, great to see you. bianna, stay with us. still ahead, the doctors are in. american life expectancy falls for the first time in more than two decades and researchers are having a hard time identifying a single cause because there isn't one. we'll talk about all of them when we come back.

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>> think of these things as economic engines. they provide people wages and provide people jobs and provide people with pride and a sense of purpose. >> life expectancy shortening for working class whites. >> exactly. i think to your point, absolutely it's a lot of things that have happened to those folks but something else going on. >>over the summer we spoke with an author about the economic struggles of the white working class. and the link to drug abuse, alcoholism and suicide. but it's not just that demographic that's dying younger. new numbers from the federal government show life expectancy is down across the board in america. the first decline in more than two decades. joining us now, former white house adviser on health policy, dr. emmanuel and in dallas, leading spine surgeon and author

and establisher of online health newsletter thrive dr. dave campbell joins us as well. >> we're spending more on health care than any other country and we're far, and we're actually losing the battle. how could that be? >> because we're not spending it fare efficiently and we're spending it towards, you know, people with chronic disease at the end of life, not preventing chronic disease. >> why are people dying earlier? >> one of the important things to look at is once people get 65, they're living a long time in the united states. they live comparable to europe. it's the pre-65 that we're not doing so well. and that's the real focus. if you look at it, the rise has really been in things like suicides, injuries, cirrhosis, all things related to mental health, really, and that, i think, is going to be the big secret underlying these numbers. the mental health of the country is not very good. people are depressed. people are very anxious. >> heart disease is up.

cancer is actually down. >> that's the good news in this whole report. i'm an oncologist. cancer rates are down. everything else is up. it's also related to eating. diabetes is up, hypertension is up, kidney disease is up. all related to increased obesity in the country. there have been a lot of epidemiologists predicting this, that we're going to do a lot worse, and it's finally coming home to roost. >> dave campbell, what do you see in the numbers? >> well, it has a lot to do with behaviors. zeke is right. the fact that we have an epidemic of childhood obesity, adult obesity, and i'm in texas right now in a very interesting corollary to that. a study just came out a couple days ago that shows that in texas, kids present to the emergency room with concussions and 40% of those kids go back to play the same day. and that's against the law. it's against guidelines. even here in texas where

football is huge, there's a behavioral problem where teaching people what to do is very difficult. the cdc had a program 13 years ago to prevent such behavioral problems. it's not working. the second important thing, zeke, i think you'll agree with this. we all know that when you're in school and you take a test, you never want to get a zero. you don't want to make a zero on a test because it's going to bring your grade down. we have young people such as j.d. vance described and we know about with opioid epidemic problems, with heroin overdoses and increasing trauma. if you have younger people dying, it's doing to skew the curve down and lower life exp expecan expecancy. >> if we wanted to improve the numbers in the united states, we have to shift the money from more stuff in the hospital more public health measures. decrease smoking, increase exercise, increase responsible living. >> why don't we talk about something that's really

uncomfortable to talk about that i talked about after my father died. we're spend how much percentage keeping people alive, a lot of times suffering and hooked up to a thousand machines that there's no free lunch. everything costs. and that's taking money away from preventative diseases and child care as well. >> as you point out, it costs not just in terms of dollars but also psychologically. putting someone in the last years of life in the intensive care unit is not the place they want to be, not the place their family wants to be. >> dr. campbell, part of the reason the study was so shocking is conventional wisdom is as medical advances, you're going to get a new heart, we're going to live forever and it's a problem for entitlements and everything else, this seems to fly in the face of that argument. >> well, yeah, but remember, we can only live to be so old. the maximum adult human age is going to be somewhere around 120 years. it is not surprising that we're

plateauing. we have been plateaued for several years now. this is the first time we have actually had a dip in the life expectancy in 20 years but we have been plateaued for five years. so if we can somehow determine how to educate our population about measures to optimize their health, we will gain access to lowering numbers for life expectancy. half of the impact on life expectancy comes from preventive measures that are under our control, and the other half comes from health care. so if we can manage to get to the inexpensive part and educate our population, which we're not doing well in texas in high school students who are having concussions. if we take that to the examples of smoking and zeke, like you say, overeating, dietary problems, nutrition problems, and lack of activity. >> yeah, so monaco, average

average, 90, japan, 85. singapore, 85. >> even western europe, we're behind britain, behind canada. we're behind france and germany. >> why? >> people under 65 are dying too early in this country. and i do think we're going to trace it back to the mental health issues because the big rise has been injuries, suicide, heroin -- >> because it's behavioral. >> also people don't have a lot of hope. >> right. >> and are turning to drugs and alcohol. that has to be a big focus in the next decade. and i think that's what we're going to have to come around to. actually, the idea that we would cut from essential health benefits, mental health, is a very bad mistake at this moment in time. dr. zeke emanuel, dr. dave campbell, thank you very much. this conversation must continue. still ahead, new information on donald trump's search for a secretary of state. who is still in the running. who's stock may have faded away. plus -- >> this is not exactly the speech at the capitol i hoped to be giving after the election.

but after a few weeks of taking selfies in the woods, i thought it would be a good idea to come out, and i'm very grateful to harry for inviting me to be part of this celebration. >> hillary clinton returned to capitol hill. her election loss with a warning about the dangers of fake news. but she says it's, quote, not about politics. "morning joe" is back after this.

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there's a sort of sense that's growing up in the democratic party that somehow these folks are -- these are good people, man. these aren't racists. these aren't sexists. there's a sense in some of our party that wait a minute, we either have to tone down our progressive point of view and ramp up what we're going to do for working folks or somehow talk less about working folks and ramp -- there is no conflict in the neighborhoods i come from. none, none at all. >> so i know i got in trouble at the convention when i spoke and i talked about why i thought hillary would make such a good president, but i did say we're not paying enough attention to these people. we're not showing enough respect to these people.

as i said and got some criticism from my own staff because i w was -- was i indirectly criticizing the campaign, i wasn't, because i know she agreed with me when i said we're not showing enough respect to a segment of the population that is scared to death. elections are supposed to be about referendum on ideas, the direction of the country. so that when a president is elected, they can say this is what i told you i was going to do. a majority of you basically agree. this is what i'm going to try to do. but other than make america great again and forward together, what do you know about the last election? >> wow. there is so much there that i don't even know where to begin. >> let's begin. >> he said that during the convention on our show, and then just revealed in that sound bite

that he got in trouble with the campaign for saying that. >> what he said on the show was that the democratic party was miserably bad reaching out to working-class white americans. >> one way of putting it, yes. >> he was right. ed rendell came on, by the way. >> he said it in real time. >> ed rendell actually at the convention said everybody else was saying -- ed rendell said of his -- >> i can understand that. >> it was in the geek millennial. >> i should speak that. that's my language. >> well, everybody else was saying, oh, you know, you are all fools for saying there's a shot. ed rendell said the same thing. white working-class voters in pennsylvania are not being paid attention to by my democratic party. this is going to be a real problem. >> and for speaking up, he got flack. good morning, everyone. >> he got flack. joe biden got flack. >> it's friday. >> by the way, bill clinton was

privately saying this in august. saying they're not going after the people that elected me in 1992. and they didn't. and they lost wisconsin. they lost michigan. they lost pennsylvania. they should have never lost those three states in a million years. and hillary clinton should be president right now instead of blaming fake news for her losing. >> with us on set, we have senior political editor for the "huffington post," sam stein. ad man, donny deutsch joins us as well. >> ad man. sounds like mad man. >> donny, jump in on that. there was such a balkanization and an overfocusing on that group and this group and the other group that they kind of forgot the very group that had been the backbone of their base for a generation. >> yeah. i mean, there was a lot of focus on lgtb bathrooms and things like that, high-minded issues and obviously, a focus on getting out the obama rainbow coalition, the base. that base.

and everybody threw out the baby with the bath water. >> wages were stagnant. people weren't doing as well as their parents. >> in hindsight, it's so clear and so obvious, yet most of us missed it. it's as simple as that. >> you touched on it, but hillary clinton talked about fake news yesterday. blaming fake news and jim comey for that loss totally ignores what happened in wisconsin in pennsylvania and ohio and states all across the upper midwest. do they have some impact? maybe. did the comey thing have an impact? you said it would and you were right, but it's not why she's not president. >> by the way, when joe biden says that, people listen. and they actually say, well, joe biden, i remember it came out from other voices on this set. including mine, and calls from the clinton campaign came toward nbc, as if we had sinned for being honest. listen to joe biden. >> also look at the end of the campaign, look at who the focus

was on constantly. by the way, they didn't need to win a ton of votes in wisconsin to win the state. they didn't need to win a ton of votes in michigan to win the state. the clinton campaign had to bend over backwards to lose this campaign. it is still shocking, if you look at the states they lost. there's no way they should have ever lost wisconsin. they didn't even show up. there's no way they should have ever lost michigan. they showed up at the very end. there's no way they should have -- they did not have a message to white working-class voters. you're exactly right. there's an obsession on rebuilding the obama coalition. there's an obsession on all of these other things. you can't forget any group. >> the obama coalition included the white working class voter. a lot of people who voted for obama in '08 and '12 -- >> voted for trump. >> yeah, the interesting thing was before the first debate, there was a fairly well passed around op-ed from two democratic speechwriters making this argument, saying what hillary clinton is doing, she's treating trump as disqualified and

unelectable, which is fine, but what she should be doing is treating him like obama treated romney. someone who outsources jobs, who makes his ties in china, who doesn't care about the working class, who is a fraud. make a populist argument about why he's not for the working class voter. she did that in the first debate. she did do a good job in the first debate. >> if you don't have a message of yourobe -- >> she abandoned it. part of the reason is they thought they needed to disqualify it. part was the comey letters. she was handed a deck and had to play it. part of it is sheer malpractice. not showing up in wisconsin. >> such malpractice. trump should have taught everybody you can't disqualify him. if you talk about -- like just look at some of the people he's selecting now in his cabinet. you could have predicted this was coming. you know, if i were hillary clinton, i would have found the clip where donald trump said that we pay people too much money in america.

>> play it over and over. >> play it over and over again. here we have a choice for labor who rejects minimum wage. that's not surprising, because donald trump actually said during the campaign, we pay americans too much. play that over and over again. like obama, turn him into romney, not somebody who is disqualified for the position. instead of saying he's so crazy, say, he could win and it's frightening, but the press and everybody felt like they had to tell the great grandchildren that they had beaten donald trump. so everybody was in on this that trump could never win. and so if trump can't win, then why warn about the fact that this guy actually believes that americans are paid too much? why make the warnings? this guy might put michael flynn in a position of authority, and he sits next to vladimir putin at dinners. why do that? because you're saying he's so crazy he could never be president. and the press played right along. >> also, every left brain

populist argument, such as had they given -- the argument about oh, we pay people too much, just like the arguments of trump university. look how he's ripping off these people, did not negate the right brain populist arguments of build a wall, and the muslim ban and the things that really resonated in a very core, deep primal, sometimes dark way, and i don't think those left-brain populist messages were able to overcome what he so deviously but brilliantly plugged into. >> you say something so important. they resonated. for example, if we would say this message that he had resonated immediately, the attacks came from all sides, including the clinton campaign. how dare you support that? no, we're saying it resonates. now, look what we have. donald trump's choice for labor secretary, andy puzder, the ceo of a fast food company that owns carl's jr. and hardee'hardee's. he's an outspoken advocate against raising the federal minimum wage.

what the minimum wage? you can't even live on it. he said it would lead to layoffs and curtail job opportunities for young people. he also has spoken favorably with replacing some fast food employees with robots, telling business insider in march, they're always polite, they always upsell. they never take a vacation. they never show up late. there's never a slip-and-fall or an age, sex, or race discrimination case. >> warm and fuzzy guy. has he seen west world on hbo. >> labor groups have already come out against the nomination. chuck schumer said the labor secretary should be someone who wakes up every day thinking about how they can raise american wages and fight for american workers. mr. puzder's career has shown exactly the opposite. there's even criticism from the right, with breitbart news writing that puzder is diametrically opposed to trump's signature issues on trade and immigration, alleging he prefers

foreign labor. >> that's adds another multi-millionaire to trump's potential cabinet. the wealth of the nominees is something donald trump has gotten a lot of criticism for. last night in iowa, he defends the net worth of some of his appointments. >> some of the people i put on to negotiate, you have bee noticing, are some of the most successful people in the world. one newspaper criticized me. why can't they have people of modest means? because i want people that made a fortune. because now they're negotiating with you. okay. it's no different than a great baseball player or a great golfer. we want the people that are going to bring -- they're so proud to do it. these people have given up fortunes of income in order to make a dollar a year. and they're so proud to do it. >> so willie, dwight eisenhower had the belief that he didn't want to appoint anybody to the cabinet that could afford to work in the cabinet. the idea was i want to get ceos

at the top of their game, and when they come to washington, it's going to be for public service. i don't want professors. i don't want think tank types. i want people that have been out in the real world, that have run big companies, and that can run these bureaucracies. >> this should not be a surprise to anyone who watched the presidential campaign for the last year and a half. these are exactly the kind of people donald trump talked about on the campaign trail for the entire campaign. remember, he talked, i'm going to send carl icahn to china because he knows how to deal with china. the message was think outside washington. think outside the conventional bureaucrats. who are the people who get things done? you can disagree with that, but you shouldn't be surprised by the choices he's made. >> sam, we were sitting here wondering how erratic donald trump would be and how erratic his appointments would be. they have been extraordinarily consistent. >> sure. >> they have been extraordinarily consistent

idealogically, and as willie said, they're basically the type of people that he predicted. you have generals, you have billionaires, and mostly, you've got some pretty rigid conservative ideologues. >> i'm surprised by just how consistent these selections are. are you? >> no. they're also donors. i mean, these are people who were on his finance committee or gave to his super pac, gave to his campaign. they're people who supported his cause, and he's turning around and saying thank you. they're also people who are diametrically different than who were in the posts to begin with. with puzder, i mean, we're talking about not just minimum wage, immigration stuff, but the overtime rules, the labor department rules pult in place for obama. those will be gone. these are vast changes in direction. >> can we think of a time where one cabinet and one administration is so diametrically opposed -- >> look at the epa post, the labor post. >> they're all -- i have been going back in my mind.

i doubt there was even this much of a change between jimmy carter and ronald reagan. this is a pretty radical shift from what conservatives would say would be far left to what liberals would say is far right. >> there's a persona. everybody is talking about the generals and ceoess, even if you look at the new labor appointment, carl's junior, which is part of the conglomerate that he runs, there are the commercials with girls in bikinis eating burgers. he said, i defend the girls in bikinis eating burgers in front of cars. that's the american way. across the board, there's a machismo, a testosterone, an i don't care, a fist in your face to all these employees which is very much, obviously, demonstrative of who our new commander in chief is. it's not only the conservative political views. it's an overall attitudeinal stance. >> we're going to continue the

conversation with senator rob portman of ohio, who walts into a reelection victory. we'll get his takeaways on what he saw from the ground in the buckeye state. >> plus the state of the secretary of state selection. we'll talk about why mitt romney is still in the running. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. this weekend's cold. this morning is cold, and neck week is going to be worse. lake effect snow the big story yesterday. anywhere off the lakes. this is in westfield, new york. how about this. we had thundersnow reported off lake erie. this was actually a water spout with a snow event. very rare, but it did happen. a lot of dynamics in the atmosphere yesterday. everybody is in this together. we're still negative windchills. casper, wyoming, negative 25. in the gulf coast, in the 30s, and in the teens in the ohio valley. plain old cold. lake effect snow bands continuing. be careful driving in michigan and along the lakeshore from cleveland to erie.

even indianapolis picked up an inch of snow. we recover around the country, we're still dealing with stormy weather. seattle, by the way, had 2 inches of snow last night. rain for you on saturday. then on sunday, chicago gets some snow saturday night into sunday, buffalo is going to get snow, it looks like, on sunday, and sunday night, so that will sneak up into new england. monday morning could be slippery in areas of the northeast. a lot going on as we're heading towards christmas. rockefeller center christmas tree looking beautiful. may be snowflakes sunday night. you're watching "morning joe." sy three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

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those close to donald trump and familiar with his thinking tell "morning joe" that mitt romney and the chairman and ceo of exxonmobil rex tillerson remain at the top of trump's list for choices of secretary of state. senate foreign relations chairman bob corker also under consideration. romney visited new york city yesterday to deliver a long planned paid speech and did not meet with trump. sources inside trump's circle

say last week's dinner between the two was, quote, a grand slam. a point echoed by those close to romney. sources close to trump also say this week's meeting with rex tillerson was, quote, great. adding that exxonmobil ceo who bearically does interviews seemed to know more about global affairs and world issues than some of the leaders he's discussed issues with. some believe rudy giuliani is no longer considered for the post. yesterday, he met with james duvureedus. >> when i heard there was a short list, i thought they were referring to a list of short people, which as you see, i would definitely be on that list, but in terms of any job, i would say why don't you talk to the folks upstairs. >> during the campaign, he had been vetted by hillary clinton's team for vice president position. >> what happened to rudy? >> he's out in the cold.

not secretary of state, not homeland security. what's left? >> all the things that he seemed most qualified for, dhs, a.g. he didn't want to do. >> he turned them down. >> he just wanted to be at foggy bottom, basically? >> i guess so. i guess so. you know, i remember when i had first put out that rex tillerson was under consideration. there was some people who -- same thing when i said nikki haley was going in to talk to trump. a lot of mocking voices there. and people asking, what's the context for that? well, the context is rex tillerson is going in tomorrow, and if i had a dark horse, even though he said yesterday trump probably shouldn't pick a ceo of exxonmobil after his epa pick, it's obvious they don't care. so, if there were a dark horse, it would be rex tillerson. they loved that guy.

>> where did he come from -- obviously, the ceo of exxon, but where did he come from as a consideration? >> i think, my sources tell me that -- >> there's a team. >> that a top foreign policy expert whom donald trump respects and who a lot of people respect, suggested that he look at rex tillerson because he had been around the world for 20, 30 years. been ceo of one of the largest companies and actually would know all of the arenas across the world as much or probably better than any politician because he's spent his life on planes going all over the world. >> that does make sense. >> and knows the world leaders. and has done the deals. gh if you're a ceo of a fortune 50 company, a global company like that, you basically have had to figure out your way around the world more than the global diplomat, actually.

>> i personally think there needs to be more balance. and again, after the epa pick, i would be very concerned about an exxonmobil ceo being in that position. >> also, it's a global energy company that will intersect with state department decision making. there's this whole issue of conflicts that i think, you know, come into play in a way that i don't think the trump people really appreciate. obviously, they don't, because he's got his own issues there. but you know, i'm surprised romney has lasted this far. i didn't think that was coming. i'm always surprised giuliani was gone. i thought he had endeared himself and been such a cheerleader. >> he was a cheerleader of rudy. >> we have to go to break, but it's important that we talk about donald trump. we all thought thee was going to just name sick ofants around him. look at the people who are out in the cold right now. newt gingrich. chris christie, who put his political life on the line for him.

christie stuck his neck out at a time when trump really needed him to. >> not even rnc chair. like, that's amazing. >> he's nowhere. newt gingrich, who a lot of people were talking about was going to be there in the cabinet. i think he'll find a place for rudy, if rudy chooses. he would be a great ambassador to italy, which is a pretty important post, especially now. >> tell that to rudy. >> yeah. you look at mike huckabee. you look at sarah palin, you look at corey lewandowski. you look at santorum. you look at the other people. there was a politico article about the people who were close to him. kellyanne. it looks like kellyanne is going to be outside of the administration. which i actually see all of this as, you know, a positive that you have a guy that is selecting the best people. it's not -- it's not just about handing out goodies to everybody that worked for him. >> he won. >> i like the overabundance of ceos. >> do you really?

>> i do. you forget political -- from an idealogical point of view, these are people who have run stuff and get stuff done. to me, the overabundance of generals and ceos, he's putting people in charge who are in charge of stuff, as opposed to just legislating stuff. >> it's a great point. >> a lot of criticism that there are too many generals at the top of the inner circle at this point. >> but look at the generals, though. mattis and kelly, thoughtful guys. these are not pound the fist kind of let's shoot the missiles. >> but i know what you're talking about, which is that -- here it is right here. >> there they are. >> not the first time. >> obama had the same amount. i read that. >> barack obama had the same amount of generals except he had three four-stars. trump has two four-stars and one three-star. actually, obama wins, somebody wrote yesterday. 12 stars to 11 stars. but you had dennis blair,

director of national intelligence. jim jones, the general who ran the nsa, and then you had general shinseki, who ran the v.a. >> i think the difference that people are pointing to is mattis at dod and the waiver policy. it's the same number of generals. >> coming up on "morning joe," donald trump spent yesterday meeting with the victims of the ohio state attack. >> we'll talk about his transition from candidate to president when senator ron portman joins us. and and our roundtable continues with ed rendell and david lineheart. [engine revving] ♪

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talking to white working class voters? >> i think we have, in part, and the reason is we have been consumed with crisis after crisis after crisis. so i go my own neighborhoods and they say joe, hey, joe, over here. you know, what about me? i think there has been in both parties not enough -- it's going to sound strange. enough respect shown. >> absolutely. >> to ordinary people.

>> wow. joe biden speaking with us at the democratic national convention back in july. we learned this morning joe biden saying last night on stage that he got a lot of flack for those comments among others that he made that morning. joining us now, former governor of pennsylvania, ed rendell, and "the new york times" david lionheart, whose latest piece is about quantifying the american dream. sam stein is still with us. >> we apologize the sam's mother. we put him in the other room. >> in the bomb shelter. okay, so we have this study which i think we should just put it on the screen because it's so jarring. i can't even -- when you look at these numbers and you look at how they have declined -- >> this is quantifying the american dream, if you were born in 1940, you had a 92% chance of doing better than your parents. in 1950, a 79% chance, in 1960, it drops to 62%, then 1980, down to a 50% chance of doing better than your parents.

i suspect, david, it only gets worse. >> i hope not, but i think it's hard not to look at the line and not think so. the remarkable thing about that is it used to be guaranteed you would do better than your parents, right? you didn't have to graduate from college. maybe even didn't have to graduate from high school and you would do better than your parents. now we get to the point where it's basically a coin flip. you understand why people are so angry. >> and of course, ed, we're putting up studies that are also showing you're not even living as long. life expectancy going down in america. >> it's related. >> i think it is related. i also think we have to take some responsibility for that ourselves. because the life choices that americans make are stunningly bad. myself included, of course. but are stunningly bad. >> i think, look, i think that's up for debate, because in terms of the american diet, i think it's a lot more confusing that it appears to be and it's not just about discipline. we looked into that.

but in terms of mental health and the american sentiment, how people are feeling about their futures, that leading to depression, which then leads to other illnesses and then leads to a lower life expectancy and your children not doing as well as you. it's all related and it's not just you need to change your ways. >> there are a number of actors that go into it. >> i think it's all related. >> stress is a driver probably more than anything. >> one book that has gotten a lot of attention is "hillbilly elegy" by j.d. vanls. >> we were talking about it. >> he says, yes, economics drive these things. it's hard to be healthy, but it's also personal choices and this fantastically complicated mix. from a paolicy perspective, wha do we do about it? >> how does this manifest itself in politics and how people vote and the people they choose. are you seeing the results in a lot of this in our politics? >> no question, but the interesting election is going to be '17 and '18 to see whether this effect was just manifested

by this incredibly good p.r. guy, donald trump, or something other candidates will be able to tap into. to me, that's fascinating. what happens in the next statewide election in pennsylvania? will those disenchanted voters still be disenchanted, still come to the polls, still be motivated? it's hard to tell. >> you talk about hillbilly elegy. another book that people close to trump read a couple years before he even campaigned was charles murray's book "coming apart, the state of white america." where don't think i have ever read a book, and i read it -- i guess a year and a half ago, that better explains the rise of donald trump than that book. >> what's fascinating when you look at some of these studies, what are the things that make it harder to escape poverty. it's a mix of issues that the left emphasizes and the right emphasizes. yes, it is inequality. it's also family structure. growing up in with a area with fewer two-parent families makes

it harder to escape poverty. >> sam stein, jump in. >> i wanted to jump off what david was saying about policy solutions to derive from this. what has gone unnoticed somewhat is one of the last major pieces of legislation president obama will sign is this bill called the 21st century cures act. i think it sort of summarizes our two steps forward, one step back approach to this. which is there's a billion dollars to address the opioid epidemic. a huge investment relative to where we were. funding for the cancer moonshot, the brain initiative, and funding for the nih as well, for medical research. all of these things are very good in terms of advancing our medical cures and approaches to things that are really zapping our life expectancy. but in the process of doing that, they also sort of unstablealize the nih funding. they say future congresses, you need to fund it year after year after year. if we made the type of long-term stable investment in medical research, biomedical research

specifically, like we do for counterterrorism, for instance, if we were that committed to these things, perhaps we would make advancements in life expectancy and other things. >> one thing i find worrisome, you were talking about this in the last segment. donald trump won because he tapped into this worry in a way that really no one else has done so successfully. but i have yet to see any policy ideas that address any of these issues. now, he's not the president yet, but you look at his cabinet and it's hard to see anything coming out of it that's going to address stagnation. >> ed, we were talking about this off camera. it's very easy to blame the loss of jobs in pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin on china. it's a lot harder to blame the loss of jobs on a technological revolution, that is doing the opposite of what happened during the industrial revolution. bringing men and women to detroit. now it seems to be taking them out. >> i was fascinated.

i watched the earlier part of the show in the hotel. the comment that the labor secretary designate made about robots. it's the famous mr. ford, when he showed ruther all these robots on the line, and ruther said that's great, mr. ford. now you have to find a way to get the robots to buy your cars. >> who's going to buy the cars? and that's the one thing. again, henry ford, obviously, parts of his legacy that people don't like to remember, the parts of the legacy, though, david, that they do, should look to emulate was a part where henry ford said, okay, i'm going to start paying my people a lot more money. not because he had a kind heart, but because he wanted the workers making the cars to be able to buy the cars. when we live under the tyranny of shareholders every day and every ceo must fire every last person standing or else get killed by wall street, we're

going to keep making the mistake. we're not going to do what henry ford did. >> what's hard about this is there are policies that can help. i think president obama's pursued a bunch of policies that have helped, but the henry ford example doesn't have a lot to do with policy. it has to do with societal norms, a hot word in the age of trump. it's not clear what caused the norms to change and not clear how we can restore the norms. >> going to a $15 minimum wage, the effect it would have on small businesses in a city like philadelphia is dramatic. >> there's such a huge argument about this, that it would cost jobs. >> we have to say also, going back to charles murray's book, he talked about how back in 1960, the best ceos in america were making $3 million, $4 million, $5 million, and the difference between somebody who is upper middle class and lower middle class wasn't really that great. >> right. >> but now, the rich are a lot richer. the poor are a lot poorer.

and you're sitting there trying to figure out how to put robots in your burger shop. so the next ceo of your company with make $275 million. >> where do women fit into this? >> after he destroyed the company. >> by the way, the argument that -- >> by the way, i'm not preaching socialism. i'm talking about responsible leadership in businesses. >> and morality. >> yes. >> like henry ford, saying i have to pay my workers more money because that's better for ford at the end of the day. >> by the way, on the minimum wage argument, all arguments, there's a way to work it out. teenage workers are called apprenti apprentices. they don't get paid minimum wage. >> thank you. >> a single mom who is 24 years old with two kids, she gets paid $15 an hour. >> the challenge is the march of technology is not going to stop. there will be self-driving cars. people at uber and lyft and all those places say by 2030, in cities, there won't be people driving cars. that's coming. the question is how do you incorporate real humans into

that industry? >> you have to have humans build the robot. >> do you have jobs for them as well? >> did you hear sam? >> you have to have a huge robot building industry. led by humans. until that human is replaced by a robot to build robots. >> that's why i think education is most important. if you have rising skill levels, you can have a lot of good jobs can technology. if you don't, technology wipes them out. >> david, governor rendell, thank you so much, both of you. great conversation. still ahead, the proposal that could make it okay to use your cell phone in flight. >> no, we don't want that. >> oh, yeah. talking. all the way to l.a.

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nbc news has confirmed "variety's" hort that donald trump will retain his title of executive producer of "celebrity apprentice." the show returns with arnold

schwarzenegger on january 2nd. hope hicks told the magazine he, quote, has a big stake in the show and conceived of it with mark burnett. she also said more will be revealed at his news conference slated for next week. "variety" reports trump's name will appear second in the credits behind burnett but before schwarzenegger. celebrity apprentice appears on nbc but is owned by mgm. >> i can't get why people are so bothered by this. >> i really don't either. >> obama got book royalties from his books while he was in office. i mean, my only question -- are they going to refer to him as donald trump in the credits or president trump? other than that, i don't find this to be that crazy. >> i'm kind of with you because we're talking about intellectual property. if i wrote a musical, say, on donald trump, and it went on broadway, and then i got elected to something, even if i wasn't involved in that, that's intellectual property created

before i got into politics. >> sure. >> i should be able to get the stream revenue every bit as much as the creator. >> this is so far down the list. >> so far down the list. >> and i'm with you, but even from -- >> stop there. stop there. >> but even from an optics standpoint, you know his name and his brand value will only accrue after being president of the united states. >> sure. >> why not put this issue to rest at least for the next four or eight years? however long he's going to be in office. >> i agree with you that maybe he should do it. i'm with sam, though, it's not a big deal that he doesn't do it. i will tell you, this actually means a lot to him. >> yeah. let the guy have something. >> he takes great pride -- >> poor guy. >> sam, you're so generous. >> i'm sure people are going to be so mad at me, but i just don't care. such a small matter. >> from a more serious standpoint, a lot of these voters, a lot of his supporters got to know him because of this show. they got to know the man he is

and the man who is out there at these rallies because of this show. >> absolutely. >> there is a value to that outside of the trump brand. how many supporters will stay at a trump hotel? probably not many. >> sam, you're exactly right. >> stop. >> you may want to focus on foreign leaders staying all of them flooding into his hotel in washington. talk about that. >> the big story this morning is boeing, who he picked this fight with, is now donating $1 million to his inauguration committee. that sounds like a bit of a shakedown. >> that sounds like a bit of a story for business before the bell. >> let's go to dominic chu for that. what are you looking at? >> so yes, we are talking about that boeing story because it is getting some attention here in our circles as well amidst a report high for the stock market overall. you have those things going on. again, according to the story in usa today, remember, those tweets came out earlier this week, but according to a source familiar, from usa today, they're saying that this check for a million dollars to help

kind of underwrite the inaugural activities for trump was already in place before the tweets about boeing. exactly. so i don't know. and it is just for relativity, kind of sake here, it's the same amount they paid for obama's inauguration back in 2013. so we t that going for us. also, one interesting part about the markets overall, you have every single stock market in the united states hitting record highs. so if you're in your 401(k) statement, that could be a pretty nice surprise. at least for the year. hopefully you're doing well on that front. on the politics side of things, just a comthings to bring up. you have some interesting reaction coming out of those latest cabinet picks for andy puzder. also with linda mcmahon as the new small business administrator. controversy there at least from the business community, you have the national retail federation, the international franchise association, business guys supporting puzder, but then you have labor organizations of course coming out against him as well, and same thing with the linda mcmahon appointment as well.

we we'll keep our eyes on that. obviously, the politics and economy is going to be good. >> dominic chu, thank you. have a great weekend. up next, he withdrew his support from donald trump one month before the election, saying he would vote for mike pence instead. so what does senator rob portman think of the presidential transition so far? the ohio republican joins us next. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now. ♪ energy lives here. for patients like lynn, advanced genomic testing may lead to other treatment options that can work. learn how genomic testing is changing the way we fight cancer at cancercenter.com/genomics

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>> baloney. where do you come from? >> i come from the former soviet union. that's where i came from. i came here as a political refugee. that's where i came from. >> what country did you say? >> from the former soviet union. from moldova. >> that's good. then the audience knows you're biased. >> i'm biased because i'm an american citizen born in a foreign country. >> when you start say russia -- you're trying -- did you know there have been no political reforms in china? none? >> i'm not advocating that china be our best front. i'm talking to you about russia. >> you just said that russia and china are the same. they're not. >> i said they're human rights abusers. how am i wrong? >> in china, they don't have an opposition party. >> russia has been accused of murdering journalists. >> okay, look, i'm let the public decide about where you're coming from. >> so the question, where do you come from? >> what decade are we in? >> may have been one of the most unfortunate utterances since dan

quayle considered his experience on capitol hill to jfk. >> you don't ask a question you don't know the answer to. >> really quickly, it was bizarre, considering you and your parents were refugees from soviet union. >> yeah, sort of note to self, know your interview, know your interviewer. i obviously did research on him and i was talking about the human rights abuse and trying to transition our conversation to the magnitsky act, which is now just passed to b expanded to a global act which sanctions anyone accused of human rights violations around the world. something he has been lobbied by russian officials close to putin about renaming. they don't want it to exist at all, but they want to rename it. they didn't want the magnitsky name attached to that. of course, this is something vladimir putin took huge umbrage with, is upset about this act passing. that's when he said, fine, we'll impose a ban where americans can't adopt russian children as well. >> i don't understand what's

happened to dana rohrabacher. he was a hard line cold warrior, even in '99. i remember being specifically at a hearing, an armed services committee hearing with him where he was actually warning about the rise of vladimir putin. >> strange. >> lmz like when it is en vogue to be so tight with putin. >> let's bring in republican senator rob portman of ohio. he actually has a life-sized picture of vladimir putin shirtless in his senate office, and he joins us now. we will get to -- >> i would like to weigh in on that. >> okay, go ahead. >> well, it's interesting. yesterday was reported that a bunch of us sent a letter to the new administration regarding ukraine and regarding russia's activity on the eastern border of ukraine and crimea. this is another example where america, i think, has not played the leadership role that we have traditionally played, and the consequences have been terrible. not just for ukraine, but for other countries watching, particularly in eastern europe,

and wondering, where is nato. where is america? i think we need to stand up and be counted. >> what is the cost? in terms of american leadership over the past two years, turning a blind eye to what happened in ukraine, and turning a blind eye to what still happens every day in syria. >> well, and think of the south china sea where on a coral reef we now have an air force base, and the other countries in the region loobing at us and saying is anybody going to tell china that's actually international waters, that's not yours? it's the middle east, syria, what's going on today, certainly, in iraq. i don't know what the costs are ultimately, joe, but i do think when president george w. bush left and said if we don't deal with isis and keep them out of iraq and if we don't have the kind of withdrawal from iraq that enables us to keep some special forces there, some trainers, that it's likely that troops will have to go back again. that's what we're seeing. so there are troops on the ground. and there may have to be more. that's one of the costs

certainly. >> bianna. >> i wanted to ask you, senator, if you believed the president-elect shared your views and compassion on this issue and the plight of people in syria and in ukraine? >> i hope so. i know he met or spoke with portion poroshenko and agrees to visit with president poroshenko, the president of ukraine. he's learning more about some parts of the world like that, where the obama administration philosophy, which as you recall, famously, early on, a staffer said leading from behind has not made the world safer but more dangerous and volatile. >> i wanted to ask you about russia because there's a number of colleges on the hill, senators saying they're going to look into the role that russia may have played in meddling in our election, perhaps the hacking of the dnc, other rumors about hacking of our election system. are you supportive of that effort? what do you hope is uncovered by that? how would you see it playing

out? >> well, sure. i'm supportive of looking into it. you may know that in the defense bill that was just passed yesterday in the senate, has already passed the house, now going to the president, there's language regarding disinformation campaigns and specifically reorganizing the u.s. government so we can better respond to that. right now, other than radio free europe, we really don't have much of an effort to try to counteract what's going on around the world. some of it is russia, some of it is china smrx of it is other countries, but if you go to eastern europe, as an example, much of what they're concerned about is the disinformation and the propaganda. i do think we need to be much more responsive to that as a government, and particularly online, where we're not sophisticated, and other countries are. i think there's a number of things we could do, certainly investigating any foreign countries interference in our election system is important, but also having the u.s. itself be able to push back against disinformation and get the truth out there to people over the world. >> senator, you hold the now late senator john glenn's senate

seat. how do you even begin to describe his legacy? >> oh, gosh. first, very humbling to hold his seat. i called him a couple weeks ago and asked him to walk down the senate aisle with me during my swearing in on january 3rd. you know, sadly, he won't be there. but what a great honor to hold the seat. he was an american icon. his life is the history of our country in many respects. you know, i'm old enough, as you are not, mika, to understand what happened back when he splashed down with freedom seven, and it changed the dynamic at that time, the soviet union, and the united states was in a space race. and the first man to orbit, first person to orbit the globe, and you recall he was about 40 years old at the time, and he came to congress to speak to a joint session. imagine that. that's what kind of a hero he was. but his life before that was a relic. he was a fighter pilot, highly decorated. after that, a united states senator. i worked with him when he was in the senate, i was on the house.

i was on his board at the glenn school, which was his great pride. an amazing guy and incredible history. >> well, and we're so grateful and so much better for his service to this country. on so many fronts, and we're blessed for that. we thank you so much for your service to the country, and thank you for being with us. >> senator portman. >> thanks. take care. >> and it is friday. that does it for us this morning. have a great weekend, everybody. thank you, sam, thank you, bianna. >> been a pleasure, guys. >> thank you, joe. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. gr thanks so much. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. good morning. we are talking money makers. donald trump in a late night rally defending his billionaires. >> i want people that made a fortune, because now they're negotiating with you. >> how his new pick for labor secretary meets heated opposition. the fast food magnate is opposed to minimum wage hikes and was behind advertisements like this.