businesses, that sort of generates more women-led business, inspires more women, means there's more women investors to help businesses grow, and martha has been hugely inspiring in that way. i'm chris matthews in new york, and this is "hardball." on thursday, hillary clinton spoke out against what she called the epidemic of fake news. here she is. >> it's now clear that so-called fake news can have real-world consequences. this isn't about politics or partisanship. lives are at risk. it's a danger that must be addressed and addressed quickly. it's imperative that leaders in both the private sector and the public sector step up to protect our democracy and innocent

lives. >> secretary clinton urged congress to tackle the issue of fake news, which at times challenged her presidential bid and ultimately led to a shooting incident at a washington, d.c. pizzeria earlier this week by a man who believed bogus conspiracy theories about clinton's campaign. i'm joined by the chief strategist to hillary clinton's presidential campaign, joel benenson. i don't want to rehash, but i tell you, some things just came out of the campaign we have to worry about, fake news. you and i were growing up, walter cronkite said something, john chancellor said something, that was about it, the major newspapers. now people are getting information from god knows where, including alex jones and people like that, and they're acting on it. >> yeah, i think the problem for mainstream media, journalists. cable tv, and everybody else, print, television, is they are having to make decisions in real time because we're in the midst of this revolution. it's not completed. every day, we're dealing with new news. when this started, no one was talking about fake news. it's a fairly recent emergence. today also i think president

obama asked his intelligence agencies to report to him about what happened in terms of russia's interference potentially in the election. things happened here in the last six or seven months that are unprecedented. it puts everybody in a tough spot. it puts campaigns in a tough spot, guys like you and everybody in the media in a tough spot. >> you get purnged, too. people call in with something. a younger person, perhaps, somebody who isn't smart enough to know it's b.s., they get it to the person on the air, they're reading it on the air, and they look like an idwrt. >> and then someone tweets it and it goes viral. >> kellyanne conway said on "hardball" last night, hillary clinton didn't have a message. that's why the other stuff worked. >> the fact is that this campaign ran a race where we reached into those working-class voters who felt like they were the forgotten man or woman. they were the base of our support. all they needed to do was have a compelli compelling, sticky, persuadable,

aspirational message to the american people. if you can sit here and tell me what hillary clinton's message was, i'm listening. what was it? all i heard was we're not donald trump. that's not a message. that's a screed. >> there's kellyanne. and she's a partisan, smee has a point of view, but it seems you need a very powerful message to drive the crazy fake news out. the other question i get, two questions, did you have a message, and secondly, why do people believe the worst about politicians? that some political friend of a candidate is running some sort of sex slavery operation out of the basement of a pizzeria. why would anybody believe that? >> which part dado you want me to take? hillary clinton was running a campaign all the way through about building an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. that the economic system had been working for those who got 99% of the gains. she was the true populist in the race. i think the voters that kellyanne is talking about are

in for a rude awakening when donald trump proposes and asks for the biggest tax cuts in history for those corporations. >> now we're still flanking. >> no, because i think that's a al problem. >> did you make a mistake in talking about too much redistribution, dividing the pie and not baking more pies, making more jobs. did you talk economic growth? >> absolutely. >> growth? >> absolutely, strong growth and fair growth. investing in the jobs of the future. yeah, because fair growth is strong growth. you can't have strong growth without wages rising. look, the reality in the country, whether you want to accept it or not or kellyanne or donald trump wants to accept it, we have had record corporate profits and wages are stagnant. there's a massive disconnect. >> that's why they voted for somebody to change the whole thing. >> they voted for someone to shake up washington. that's their biggest pinpoint. they think washington is broken. lezer a bomb thrower. he'll shake it up. i think that's what they were voting for. >> i was watching this close.

i was in ireland, i said, don't worry. don't worry. pennsylvania is the firewall. i know that state. they're never going to go for a republican. when did it strike you, and in the night before, i get a call from kellyanne, how is pe pennsylvania looking? i talked to rendell and the chair up there, looks like a three-point loss. did something happen at the end? >> i think things were tightening up at the end. we saw in a couple states, in a lot of those, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, by the way, at the end, those three together, as you know -- >> why did they move? >> about 80,000 votes across the three states. i could look back to probably six or ten different things, and any one of them i could say had some truth in it probable. i think at the end, the comey thing was a factor, the fbi thing. the other thing in this race was a variable of third-party voters. >> don't you hate people who come up and say i voted for gary johnson? he couldn't name a world leader. >> they're feeling great today.

>> i hope they get the message. >> it's something you can't control. they're a small group of people. if they decide to go one wayilate, and i think his voters solidified, his third-party defectors, and ours didn't, particularly when director comey did what he did 11 days out. their pollster -- >> tony fubritsio. >> he did a podcast with me at harvard. he said he saw that as well. without the third-party candidates, maybe it's different. who knows. >> hillary won debates, money, ground, the best tv ads. was it the traveling around, the vaudeville style politics of going five or six stops a day, was that the smart move in the end? just showing up? >> it probably helped him. i think it probably -- he looked -- people were seeing him every day. we were out there every day, too, but we missed a few spots. >> people come up to me and say, reasonable things, and i never

want to say an answer because i don't know. would bernie have won? would bernie have beaten him? >> i don't think so. where. >> are you sure or not sure? tell me if you're not sure. >> i can't be sure because he wasn't in the race. >> can you imagine him beating trump? >> can i imagine him? i don't know. there are things you can't imagine about trump winning at some point in the race. >> how about joe biden? >> again, i don't know. he's got to carry president obama's 30 term. it doesn't do good to lk back. >> but everybody does it. >> you're doing it, i haven't done it once. >> the bernie people, they said he could have won. i can't argue. >> he would have had to run as a socialist. he would say i'm a democratic socialist. you tell me, you know pennsylvania. you think people in pennsylvania are going to vote for a socialist. >> don't ask me to pick pennsylvania anymore. i had it wrong. >> it's easy to say what you think would have happened when the person isn't in the race. >> first, i call my brothers,

the best thing to do. one of my family members doesn't like hillary, really bad. i was surprised because i never knew about that. number two, right to life thing popped up. older people, my brother charlie said he never saw so many older people, even with walkers showing up, they were catholics. the supreme court issue. i was surprised. trump, he doesn't believe a word but he played it. >> what the turnout numbers show is that the third party voters that defected were under the age of 45. the ones over 45 stayed with trump. only 2% to 3% voted third party. the younger ones voted the other way. >> everybody loves nate silver, but the numbers guys have really gotten to me. >> me, too. >> anyway, joel benenson, great watching you on the campaign. >> up next, all week long, taking a look back at some of the more revealing things donald trump has said in interviews over the years. we're calling it vintage trump.

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he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the

military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast.

i just know that i follow my instinct. and my instinct, if i follow that instinct, and if i go with

my original instinct as opposed to waiting, procrastinating and seeing what happens over a period of time, i have historically done better. i'll do spur of the moment things, and they're the things that tend to work out the best. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump discussing what he calls his good instincts in a 1985 interview. his instincts did help him reach the white house. his off the cuff rhetoric provoked backlash on the campaign trail. we'll look at his statements on issues of social equality, diversity, and culture. speaking about african-americans for an nbc special on race in 1989, trump said a well educated african-american is afford eed greater opportunity in this country than educated white counterparts. let's hear trump on that. >> a well educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well educated white in terms of the job market. i think sometimes a black may think that they don't really have the advantage or this or that, but in actuality today,

currently, it's a great -- i have said on occasion, even about myself, if i were starting off today, i would love to be a well educated black because i really do believe they have an actual advantage. >> anand giridharadas is author of "the true american murder and mercy in texas. katy tur covers the trump campaign since day one, and adam chandler, i don't know who to start with. katy, you know, sometimes people have conversations, different backgrounds, different ethnic groups and we talk among ourselves in this country. i never heard anyone say an african-american has a better chance than a white person in this country. i have heard from people i respect immensely, their experience is the bar gets raised just as they're about to go through it. as they meet the standard, the standard gets chaved. >> well heeled circles of privileges people, i have heard it said, that i don't feel like

i got into harvard because my place was taken by somebody through affirmative action. that was something people used to say, maybe a little more a decade or two ago than they are today, at least from what i have heard in just my life. so this was -- you could say it was more of a product of the time. >> 1989. >> but at the same time, donald trump is donald trump. this is vintage donald trump. >> anand, you're thinking about this because i don't think people believe this who are people of color. i don't hear it from them. >> let's just -- i'm a writer and i look at language in a close way. so i look at that clip, i think it's very revealing, the substance and also how he speaks. first, a black, a black. right? people who use the phrase, a black, it's already telling you what road we're going down. >> how so? >> it's dehumanizing. it's usually a pretty clue as to racist beliefs. >> what's the correct way? >> an african-american, a black

person. there's -- if you go out in society, it's a pretty good correlation. >> i know the answer. i wanted to hear you say it. >> i think more deeply in that clap, it's the phrase that has gained ground of whi whiteexplaining. some black people may have -- >> i heard of mansplaining. >> a rich white man, and said he some black people may think it's based on life speerss, and he's explaining to them that their experience of a lack of opportunity, donny knows better. >> in an interview after the release of his book "the art of the comeback" trump talked about how he views women. let's catch this. >> i love women. i think they're the most beautiful things you could imagine. i think women are just magnificent. i think women are not the weaker sex at all. in many respects. i think they're the stronger

sex. i think that, and i mention this strongly in the book, that women are more aggressive sexually than men, in my opinion. the fact is that these are very aggre aggressive folks. unbelievable. and i say far more aggressive than men. i have seen it. >> physically aggressive. >> physically aggressive. sexually aggressive. women are more aggressive than men. >> can't keep their hands off you. >> i'm not really saying me. i believe sexually that women are more aggressive than men. and i think men are pretty aggressive. i know i am. >> he covered all the bases with that, but didn't it seem kind of narcicisst narcicisstic? i'm just asking. it's his experience with women he's suggesting is quite grand, to put it lightly, and therefore he knows all about women in that way. he's basically saying they love him, they can't keep their hands off him. although he can't keep his hands off them, too, it's outrageous, but it's also narcicisstic, and

he's not running for office back then. >> not running for office and he's also just kind of being this brash person we know him to be. the tape shows him over and over again being this huge person. and this is part of it. this is part of the conversation with him. and it doesn't sound all that different from what we see throughout the years. >> katy. >> things. most beautiful things. a black. things. same vein. >> yeah. i did notice, without casting grand judgment, that all the women he's named to major -- and some of them are very credible people, like governor haley and devos, they're attractive people. he seems to like the idea. am i the only one who noticed that's how he casts. >> i'm not into the cabinet rating business, but in the clip, there are things that stand out. >> you're going to leave me alone on that? >> all alone.

the second part, where he said women are magnificent, women are the better sex. i just want to say, one of the defining features i had a chance to travel to a lot of developing countries where women are much more oppressed than here. one of the tale tell signs, signs that are very bad to women is if people are constantly putting them on a pedestal. >> look at saudi arabia. women can't drive because we don't want them to potentially hurt their ovaries. seriously. there's all sorts of we need to protect you because you need to be kept pure and you need to be kept as beautiful as you are. you need to be kept as a thing. >> we have our own version of that, the george w., we all married up. women are smarter than we are. >> this is also language that was used in the united states. talking about not giving women the vote 100 years ago. it was that women were too pure for the dirty pool of politics. >> too delicate.

>> exactly. >> speaking of women, here's a prominent one. long before mike pence, trump revealed to me if he decided to run in 2000 for president, he had another running mate in mind. here he is on her. >> would you consider a woman for your running mate? and if so, who? >> well, i would consider, and as chris can tell you, i threw out the name of a friend of mine, who i think the world of. she's great. and some people thought it was an incredible idea, some didn't. but oprah. i said oprah winfrey, who is really great. i think we would be a very formidable team. >> another name drop. the time-out of them together would be formidable. a friend of mine, oprah winfrey. >> i think this is safe to say this is not one of oprah's favorite things. >> the claim that he wanted her? >> yes. >> when we return, let me finish with something that needs to be said about the hero we lost yesterday, john glenn. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. touches sticks with them.

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let me finish tonight with something that needs being said about the american hero we lost yesterday. john glenn proved his patriotism years before and many, many times before he circled the planet and brought america strongly back into the space race. as a fighter pilot in world war ii, he flew 59 missions according to today's "washington post," and the korean war, he flew 90 missions. and here he is speaking to me in 2005 about his combat experience. >> when you go into this, you don't go into it separately as one person. you go in as a unit and you fight as a unit. you're responsible for the people with you, whether you're in the ground or in the air, and that's just the way it works. marine training is absolutely the best in the world, and you stick with that training when you get into combat. >> that was ed mcmahon and him in the picture. if it weren't enough, he set the

transco transconsnentalpede record. in an off interview record i did with glenn this year, he spoke about his role as the first american to orbit the globe. let me read you what he told me. we were at a low ebb in the country and the soviets at that time were claiming they were technically superior to the united states, and they were using that to invite students into the soviet union by the thousands to get training and then held back to their countries. we were determined to overtake this. on the russian side, they would claim their superiority. our early efforts in the space program, project mercury, were mainly to catch up. mine was the first one to do the orbit for this country, and that sort of evened things out with the soviet union in some ways. the world looked at us as being ahead because we were completely open with our program. where the soviets were secret. they didn't let the press in. i think the world responded favorably to that kind of treatment.

john glenn on why the world looked up to us in so many ways in february, 1962. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. when you find something worth waiting for, we'll help you invest to protect it for the future. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase, so you can.

he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the

military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. good morning, coming up on "your business," this young woman decided to start her own small business rather than go to college. did she succeed? the third generation owner of the iconic radio flyer wagon company on capitalizing on nostalgia while continuing to innovate. all that plus what you need to know to close that deal. that's all coming up next on "your business."