"or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it. hey there, good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt at msnbc headquarters. here's what's happening right now. president-elect donald trump drops in on the army/navy game as new reports today suggest some of his comments may leave him at odds with u.s. national security teams. today, new questions and reaction about russia's alleged role and whether it is specifically tried to help trump win the election. >> i don't know what the relationship is with vladimir putin, but i'll tell you it a matter of concern to me. >> the reported pick for secretary of state, will the incoming president get pushback from inside his own party? big krichill across large sh

of the country. we'll tell you if the worst of it is over. we begin with politics and new fallout over reports on the cia's conclusion that russia intervened in our elections to favor donald trump. today's headlines suggest a rift between the president-elect and the cia after his transition team dismissed the reports. the new york times is summarizing it this way, an extraordinary breach has emerged between president-elect donald trump and the national security establishment with mr. trump mocking american intelligence assessments that russia interfered in the election on his behalf, and top republicans vowing investigations into kremlin activities. and then here is what senator john mccain told my colleague casey hunt about congress' plans to further investigate. >> i have not had a classified briefing, but no doubt in my mind that the russians were involved. every expert that i know and respect like the head of the cia

and director of national intelligence, i'll say that's the case. whether they were intended to help donald trump or not, i do not know. that has to be the subject of overall hearings that we're going to have on the armed services committee. the whole issue of cyberattacks. >> the president-elect made no mention of the reports when he attended yesterday's army/navy game. here is what he told cbs sports about his commitment to the military. >> is it a humbling thought that in six weeks you're going to be the commander in chief for those guys? >> it is humbling. it is a great honohonor, but a t responsibility. when you see these incredible people, we just want to be strong and they want to be strong. it is just -- it is beautiful to see. and the spirit, you don't see this at any game. i go to many games. you don't see this kind of spirit anywhere. >> no. >> these are just amazing people. >> trump is taking a break today. tomorrow, carly fiorina and prominent democrat senator joe

manchin are scheduled to meet with him tomorrow. with more about the cia and russia, let's go to chris jansing at trump tower for us on sunday morning. good day to you. what are the latest reactions to all of this? >> no doubt about it, there is growing concern about this rift. here you have the president-elect with almost an unprecedented dismissal of a report by intelligence officials. it is causing alarm bells with top republicans, top democrats, and, of course, within the intelligence community. the very people donald trump will need toav information to make key decisions about hot spots around the world. donald trump at the army/navy showdown saturday, praising the armed forces. >> is it a humbling thought that in six weeks you're going to be the commander in chief of those guys? >> it is humbling. it is a great honor, but it is a great responsibility. >> all while an unprecedented rift plays out between the

president-elect and the intelligence community. nbc news confirmed that the cia believes the russian government tried to help donald trump win the election, first reported by the washington post late friday. >> that is where they are in this issue now, russia was not only interfering, but trying to deliver this election to donald trump. >> trump's camp refuting the claim saying these are the same people that said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. the new york times reported saturday that the russian government also hacked the republican national committee, but only release the the democratic data. the rnc disputes this. >> there is zero evidence that anything that may have been attempted had any effect on the outcome. >> and exxonmobil ceo rex tiller son, trump's expected choice, also raising eyebrows for his relationship with russia. >> why does a business executive make sense as the chief

diplomat? >> in his case, he's much more than a business executive. he does massive deals for the company, not for himself, for the company. >> prompting questions in both parties on whether he could be confirmed by the senate. >> i believe that the relationship between mr. tillerson and vladimir putin needs to be examined. >> now, we're still waiting for the official announcement on secretary of state, but our andrea mitchell reports that tillerson has already informed his board. meantime, the white house is calling for an investigation into russian hacking and want that report released before the administration ends. and finally, alex, at least four major senators, republicans and democrats this morning, calling for an investigation, a further investigation saying it is very important that all of this does not become politicized. alex? >> thank you very much, appreciate that, chris jansing, on fifth avenue. joining me now, shawn henry,

president and chief security officer of crowd strike services. the former executive assistant director of the fbi, also an msnbc contributor, with aig welcome to you, let's get right into it. as we look at the headlines here, with the president-elect who appears to doubt intelligence agencies, what kind of divide might this create between a trump white house and the national security teams. >> well, alex, you know, the president that to have confidence and a level of trust with the broad u.s. intelligence community. you've got tens of thousands of americans that are working around the globe, trying to protect our national interests. and there has to be that leveli morale. it is important that they are working together, in coordination. >> i'm curious what the basis is for his doubt. i mean, he's not taking these daily briefings as most president-elects will do. and his experience in the past,

where is his basis for doubt? >> well, i don't know what the president-elect was actually provided, what he has seen and reviewed. i can tell you that there are people that have worked on russian security, u.s. security as it relates to the russian threat, for many, many years. and it is across multiple agencies. not just one particular agency. you've got signals intelligence, human intelligence, department of defense, it is a comprehensive review, and to make comments out of hand, if not seeing very specifically what was laid out, i think that's inappropriate. certainly the veracity of intelligence can be questioned. it is important that it is questioned in the appropriate forum. with people who are responsible at the appropriate time to question it publicly or to question it using social media, those are the types of things that really is harmful, i think, and not helpful to anybody in the community. >> and the fact he's not taking

these daily briefings, how much is that concerning you. he isn't president yet. >> you know, i think some of the information i've got is that vice president elect pence is being briefed, perhaps there is communication day to day. if there is not a very pressing need, then having a daily brief might not be that important. certainly if there is some developing issues, we saw issues yesterday in turkey, for example, i would imagine that that's the type of information on who the adversaries are there, what the methodology that was used, the type of information or intelligence that would be of value. but you want to ensure that the priority intelligence is being reviewed, and that there is some level of understanding and prioritization of what is occurring worldwide. >> i'm curious, as a former insider yourself, talk about the morale within the intelligence community. if there say belief that the president, president-elect now, but the president doesn't

necessarily believe the intel that you are giving them, i mean, these are guys who have a lot of integrity, you know, what they go about doing, they're keeping everybody safe. >> yeah, you know, these are career peop. i've worked in this community. people who are making great sacrifices, they're deployed oftentimes outside of the united states, they're away from their family and friends and they miss birthdays and anniversaries and sporting events for their kids. it is a great sacrifice, but they do it because they want to protect the country. it is something they have got -- the level of integrity and want to make the commitment. when they bring this intelligence forward after spending a great deal of time and effort compiling it, they want to just ensure that it is being reviewed and it is having an impact on our security. that somebody is reviewing it on behalf of the united states security. when it is questioned,

particularly if it occurs publicly, i think that that is just harmful and the morale is impacted. >> so i want to talk to you about the new york times report about the russia hack of the republican national committee as well. in fact, here is how rnc communications director sean spicer reacted. >> we were willing to offer the new york times inside access to know what happened. we were willing to offer them proof, they chose not to engage in that conversation, not us. the intelligence agencies that we're working with tell us with certainty we haven't been hacked. we said it before and tried to work with these media outlets to explain that to them and show them. >> look, shawn, everyone from the rnc is adamant that the rnc was not hacked but you investigated some of this. so what do you believe? >> i did not look at the rnc. we looked at the dnc. that's the issue here. regardless of whether the rnc was hack or not, the dnc was hacked, that intelligence was

gathered and disseminated through wikileaks, it appears that it was done to create chaos, to create some type of confusion in the u.s. electoral process. that's an attack on our freedom. it is an attack on one of the most fundamental and important issues in american life. and that is a bipartisan issue. that should not be looked at in a political way. i think it is a national security issue for all americans. and that it should be reviewed by congress and it should be reviewed -- i know the president has asked for a comprehensive report that demonstrates what happens. we need to demonstrate to other nations that if actions are taken, the threat in our national security, there will be some repercussions. i think that has to happen through dialogue. cyberis is a critically importa issue in our society. there is going to be a cascading impact and it could be

existential in certain circumstances. this is is not something to be taken lightly. shouldn't be out in the media. people should be talking about this, presidents, nation states, one to one, to really define what the red lines are and what the repercussions are going to be. >> shawn henry, thanks so much for your insights, appreciate them. happening now, a wintry blast packing heavy snow, making its way east after slamming the northwest. power lines there were down with the snow causing some highway pileups big time. and thousands of flight cancellations. morgan radford in the thick of things in chicago where they could see up to 12 inches of snow. i'm sure that's kind of music to your ears, morgan, as you wait this out. good morning to you. >> this is not for the weary, alex. in fact there is about 4 to 6 inches of snow on the ground now. we're expected to see another 3 later in the day. this as thousands of flights were canceled here at o'hare airport. this is part of a much larger

storm system sweeping from coast to coast. downed power lines. >> you guys okay? >> mountains of snow. and exasperated neighbors. >> the old are i get, the more i hate this weather. it is a young person's weather. >> residents in the midwest bracing for a winter that is set to be colder than average. >> when i turn around, there is an inch and a half of snow on the sidewalk that i just cleared. >> that cold front starting out west, blanketing tens of millions of americans under a winter weather advisory with temperatures feeling well below zero. in portland, neighbors found themselves trapped at home, with no power and no way to escape. >> pretty much impoll ssible tot out of this apartment complex. >> in parts of ohio, nearly three feet of snow. neighbors in chicago staying prepared. >> i have my car set with the kitty litter, extra food, water,

blankets. >> you're enjoying the winter weather. >> yes. >> you're in the nervous about this? >> no. >> it is what we do in chicago. we're cold. >> where some say the worst is yet to come. >> we're going to be in for a whole world of hurt because we have had wonderful weather up until the middle of december and now here we are, it is going to be negative ten next week. >> cities from south dakota all the way to vermont are still currently under a winter weather advisory. we're under one here in chicago until midnight tonight. alex? >> your last interview put it the right way. we're going to pay for the beautiful fall that we have. that's for sure. big time. thank you very much. so new help this week for the people of flint, michigan. that city's water crisis. is it enough? and what can donald trump do to help once he gets in office. some answers coming up. sion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on

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vladimir putin is a thug and a bully and a murderer. and i believe that the relationship between mr. tillerson and vladimir putin needs to be examined. >> voicing concerns about the president-elect's choice for secretary of state. he told casey hunt that he reserves the right to rote against tillerson and anyone else during confirmation hearings. joining me now is steven cortez, a republican strategist and trump supporter and former adviser to the trump campaign. first, your reaction to senator mccain's comments about tillerson's close ties to putin. what do you think? >> look, i have no illusions, i think the president-elect has no illusions about putin. he is mostly an adversary. at times we have common interests. that's often the case with disreputable people we have to deal with all over the world.

we have relationships and interests at stake with a lot of people that we would rather not perhaps hang out with if we had our choice. no illusions about who he is and senator mccain is correct, putin is a thug in many ways, but also someone with whom we can do business. >> regarding tillerson, adding to the concerns of the -- one of the confidants tweeted on friday, he predicts a rough confirmation hearing, a in vote on the senate floor and lindsey graham telling the washington post, he found it unnerving that he received an honorary distinction from russia a few years ago. so, steve, what do you think is going on in trump's mind, choosing tillerson if it appears a potential nomination could be blocked? >> first of all, i don't think that will happen in the end. lindsey graham has been a thorn in trump's side since the days of the primary. i don't think he's gotten over that quite frankly. i'm not terribly surprised he would be skeptical here. one of the reasons i think trump and perhaps the main reason that he will nominate rex tillerson

is the fact he's done business all over the world. exxonmobil is one of the most global companies on earth. and i think those skills of diplomacy that he used in business are going to be very transferrable to the business of the united states of america. i think trump as a business person very much respects those kinds of skills. he has been able to do business in russia successfully. i think that is a positive. that's an attribute to his resume. rather than a problem. again, we have no illusions about the -- about russia. but i think we also do have common interests. for example, isis, russia can be pivotal in helping the united states to defeat russia. >> what about the reports that russia was involved in the elections to help trump to win. that will not help tillerson's cause at this point.

national security, that say top issue for voters. do you think this is the right way to start up a relationship with the cia? >> i think that we need a lot of reform among many agencies and i think including the cia, because they're very much at odds with the fbi on this in terms of what russia did or didn't do and frankly i don't know. none of us know for certain what russia did or didn't do. i think it is really almost comical when i hear the democrats talk endlessly about the russians, it seems like they're incapable of some introinspection, self-reflection about why did they lose. it wasn't because russia, even if russia was trying to influence the election it was because in large part they nominated the most unlikable and corrupt politician of my lifetime. so i think they would do themselves and the country well if they would reflect upon how they connect with middle america and worry a lot less about russia. >> interfering with our elections, i want to play for you now what rnc communications corrector sean spicer said

yesterday about the reports. >> i am outraged. i don't think any foreign entity, any individual, any -- >> why don't you say that? why didn't trump say that? >> i just said it. sf stop and let me -- i just said it. let me actually take yes for an answer. i said it. okay. i don't think donald trump doesn't think, no one thinks a foreign entity should be interfering with the election. what proof do they have that they affected the outcome? i heard zero, okay? >> let me echo michael smerconish there, why isn't the president-elect voig president-elect voicing outrage over the reports? >> if the reports are even true, i have doubts about that, but if they are, this is a serious matter. i have no doubt that president trump once inaugurated will take this seriously just as we don't want china has beening ocking os

and stealing intellectual property. we can't have foreign interference and we have to try to prevent that. we don't want to be vulnerable. but hillary clinton and her allies made themselves vulnerable. why? because she had a secret server and because they sent a lot of e-mails which revealed what they were doing secretly, things like cooking the books on the primary -- on the democratic side against bernie sanders, rigging their primary system, saying incredibly disparaging things about american catholics, about the church. they made themselves vulnerable. we don't want anybody hacking. but there is an important point here. don't say and do things which have made public will be highly embarrassing to you. >> can i ask you about the makeup of cabinet? no civil servant type so far. doesn't this run counter to the little guy who voted for the president-elect? >> i don't think so.

we're going to have -- you're right, we're bringing a lot of nongovernment expertise. we were the outsiders from the very beginning, our entire movement is about not going to washington to tinker around with the -- it is about going to washington to smash a corrupt system, a rigged system. i'm not surprised that we're bringing in a lot of fresh faces, people who may not have a lot of experience in government, but a lot of experience in the real world getting things done. and i think rex tiller son is exactly that. a negotiator, he's a diplomat in the world of business. and i think he'll bring those skills to the business again of america. >> all right, steven cortez, we'll see you again soon. thank you so much. happening now, a bombing in turkey, dozens dead. more than 150 injured. how it happened and who the turkish government is blaming.

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welcome back. i'm alex witt at msnbc world headquarters in new york. here's what we're monitoring. ash carter is in iraq today making an unannounced visit to meet with american commanders and iraqi leaders. carter will get an update on the fight against the islamic state. and crews are searching for more victims of a crutch collapse which killed at least 160 people. metal girders gave way and the roof fell on to worshipers. happening now overseas, turkey hunting for answers in the aftermath of twin blasts which killed 38 people near a soccer stadium in istanbul. matt bradley is following all the developments from london. good day. what is the latest on this investigation? >> it has been an official day of mourning across turkey where another terror attack added to a growing sense of fear.

it began as a normal saturday night. istanbul has a new normal. twin bombings less than a minute apart left more than three dozen dead. and over 150 wounded. the first attack a car bomb that struck riot police as they left a stadium following a soccer game. moments later, a suicide bombing at a nearby park. most casualties were policemen. no one claimed responsibility. but the government quickly bl e blamed kurdish separatists. police say they arrested more than ten people. but turkey's enemies are many and recent attacks set a grim background for turkturkey's new normal. this morning, the interior minister delivered an angry speech in a funeral for some of those police officers. he railed against kurdish separatists calling them animals

and pawns of the west. it is worth noting that the kurdish party are among's turkey's strongest political opposition groups. >> okay. it is complicated over there. thank you so much. what a tragedy. let's go to politics and some new reaction from donald trump speaking for first time on reports of russia intervening in the u.s. election to help him win. here is what he said moments ago about who he said he thinks are behind the reports. >> i think it is ridiculous. i think it is another excuse. i do end believe it. >> do you think the cia is trying to overturn the results? to weaken you in office? >> if you look at the story and look at what they said, there is great confusion. nobody really knows. hacking is very interesting. once they hack, if you don't catch them in the act, you're not going to catch them. they have no idea if it is russia or china or somebody it could be somebody sitting in a bed some place. they have no idea. >> why would the cia put out this story that the russians wanted you to win? >> i'm not sure they put it out. i think the democrats are

putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in history of politics in this country. >> who exactly is rex tillerson and what skills would he whebri to the table? joining me is ron insana and tara palmieri, a cnbc contributor. what kind of person is rex tison? what is his nature? >> he's very successful, long time exxon employee. he's been there his whole career. he's done quite well with one of the world's largest oil companies. he has been very tightly associated with a lot of different foreign governments including russia. he's been given one of the highest civilian honors in russia that has been granted to a noncitizen. so he is a citizen of the world if you will. the question is just how cozy is he with vladimir putin and what does that mean to u.s. policy going forward? >> that is a question. the skills as a ceo that

tillerson possesses, how do those translate into being an asset to secretary of state? >> tillerson is one of the first nominees for secretary of state that has no experience in public diplomacy or even in the public sector. so it will be interesting to see how he's able to slide into a role where most people underneath him are going to have spent their entire life working in public service, starting as, you know, career diplomats. but apparently does he have some good diplomatic skills and the people who voted for trump, they didn't want people who already worked in government, which they had been, you know, lambasting during the entire campaign as too slow, too bureaucratic. they want to shake things up with -- with people who have more outside experience it not surprising it see another business executive in this role, even though it is a role particularly reserved for people with diplomatic appearance. >> right, right. so, ron, that relationship that tillerson has with putin that you mensed ther edmentioned the good thing, a liability? >> the jury is out on that in

the sense we don't know the extent to which exxon itself is conflicted in how u.s. policy ultimately handles some issues with russia, like sanctions, which mr. tillerson some years ago opposed because of interrupted a pipeline plan that was a joint venture between russia and several other countries in the former soviet spear and that meant billions of dollars in revenue and profit to exxon. he's going to be forced to divest if he takes the job. so that conflict from a direct perspective goes away. but you never know where he falls. he has been among those who have voiced opposition to more sanctions or even the current sanctions against russia. so an open question as to what this means directly for u.s. policy. >> what about the position on climate change that he holds. exxonmobil we supported the paris accord. how much does the president need to be on the same page when it

comes to this issue. >> that's an interesting question. there are concerns he might unwind parts of the deal under pressure from the president-elect when he actually takes office. but like we said, he personally was the person who changed exxonmobil's position on climate change and he made it clear that he thought it was a threat. so if he sticks with that, it could strengthen the paris accord, which is something that a lot of democrats and even republicans were worried might actually end up unwinding. he also said he was in favor of carbon tax, so he's a little bit more to the left of donald trump and it is not -- it is something interesting we're seeing of the president-elect is choosing people in his cabinet who don't necessarily agree with him on everything, which i think is probably a good sign. >> and very quickly here, positions on other political issues, what do we know about that? you do the research on this guy, it is hard to find him get pinned down on anything, tara. >> we know he did support jeb bush, that's the only candidate that he actually gave money to in the --

>> jeb's brother as well. >> in the 2016 primary. interestingly, though, he did not give any money to president-elect donald trump, but his wife gave 2700. so it is sort of interesting to see that he's choosing both from outside his loyalty nest. i think, again, that's probably a good sign. i'm sure mitt romney is a bit sad to see the news, especially after he had to kiss the ring and apologize to mr. trump after his never trump campaign in hopes of getting the secretary of state job. but rex tillerson, that's a wild card to pick that. i don't think anyone could predict he would be secretary of state and we'll see if he actually gets through the senate. that's going to be a really tough hearing. >> senator mccain and lindsey graham both expressed concern. we don't know his position on iran, with sanctions being lifted to a certain extent, and iran coming back to the world oil market, which helped to drive down prices over time, will he continue to support something like that, that is in

fact a somewhat competitive challenge for world oil companies as well. that's -- this is something else that needs to be vetted. >> on the heels of iran and boeing. thank you so much. good to see you both. rescuing flint, new help for the people there still unable o drink the water, but will it be enough? >> it is immeasurable. >> excited for this, right? the new "star wars" movie comes out later this week. is it angering the alt-right who claims it has an anti-trump message? that's ahead.

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we're back with politics in progress this weekend for flint. joining me now, michigan congressman dan kildee, who has been fighting for this for a long time.

i want to get your reaction. what did you think? >> well, i'm happy to see it finally,. we passed the same legislation in the house on thursday. senator stabenow and peters have been working to get this done since last january. almost a year. just seemed like there was always a reason to not take care of the people of flint. we broke through that. this is a big step forward. it is not everything we need. but it is a big step forward for the people of flint. >> so talk about life on a daily basis in flint right now. have there been improvements since we spoke last month about how the residents were drinking, cleaning and bathing in bottled water? >> it has been slowly improving. people there still use bottled water, there are still warnings to not drink the water if it is not filtered or for somebody who might have a compromised immune stem or a young child to continue to use bottled water

anyway. it has been very tough. this has been going on for two years where people haven't been able it drink they are water. it complicates life. it is really depressing, actually. it is not just the physical health aspect of this, even though that's the most significant impact. the entire community has been going through, you know, a real depression. business has been struggling. it has been a really tough period of time. >> i'm sure you're aware that donald trump mentioned flint on friday. here's what he said. >> used to be the cars were made in flint and you couldn't drink the water in mexico. now the cars are made in mexico and you can't drink the water in flint. >> do you think that flint water crisis is really on donald trump's radar and if so what could he do that has not been done yet and could it happen any faster? >> well, you know, that's a great line. but, you know, people in flint

don't get any comfort from cute phrases. we need help. what congress just did is significant. with the obama administration has done has been really significant. so far with the state of michigan who caused this problem have done to solve this issue has been far too little, and other than a few words, we haven't really heard a commitment from president-elect trump that he will do much more. now, if he commits that he's going to help flint, he will find in myself and our senators very willing partners. but it is going to take more than cute phrases, it takes dollars and cents to fix the problem to provide health care, to all those things that we need, can't come just from cute phrases. >> so you're talking about the state of michigan being responsible for this crisis to begin with. what do you then think of mr. trump's pick for the epa, scott pruett, some say he's going to shift more oversight to the states, like michigan. is that a positive or a negative

change in your mind? >> it is dangerous. we have seen what happens when a state government rejects any oversight from the federal government. you know, the epa tried to get the state of michigan to do something about the water situation in flint. they would not do it. they rejected the advice from the epa. what this now potential new epa administrator would do is -- would be to even weaken the relationship between the federal government and state governments. we'll have more flint michigans if that happens. this is not the approach we need to be taking. >> all right, which means we'll be talking with you again, congressman dan kildee, thank you very much. appreciate your time. >> thank you. next up, rex sitillerson's relationship with vladimir putin. could this somehow work to the u.s.' advantage? my hygienist said i should think of my teeth like an apple.

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that donald trump has reportedly chosen rex tillerson as the secretary of state. he's had a business relationshin for about two decades, cause for concern with at least one senior senator. >> vladimir putin is a thug, a bully and a murder, and anybody else who describes him as anything else is lying, so we cannot have an accommodation with the russians. i don't know what mr. tillerson's relationship with vladimir putin was, but i'll tell you, it is a matter of concern to me. >> let's bring in jonathan alter, "daily beast" columnist and msnbc analyst and author of "center holds," and the vice president communications of the policy center and msnbc contributor. big welcome to you. robert, do you agree with senator mccain, and if so how concerned are you? >> i do, and i'm very concerned.

i mean, look, there's two sides of this coin. the first side of the coin is it's very, very troubling that someone would be so close to president putin for all the obvious reasons. senator mccain probably summed it up very artfully with respect to vladimir putin's personality, with respect to his history, both politically but also personally in terms of putting people in jail, in terms ave allegedly killing people. i mean, you go on down the list. now the flip side to this, i'm trying to put a -- a bright side to this is that perhaps maybe this is what we need in the secretary of state, someone who understands vladimir putin, someone who has a relationship with vladimir putin, someone who is literally willing to hit the reset button and troy to engage the relationship. the fact of the matter is that pout put probably is not the best person on the face of this pert, but he runs russia, so we have to have an edge gagement policy with russia very similar to china. >> i will say, robert, this is not an official pick yet. it could be by next week. >> that's true.

>> why would trump pick tillerson over romney? is it bows they couldn't stomach a romney pick because of all the vitriol there? what would you have done? >> this is classic donald trump. good cop and bad cop. i think this is a trial balloon. donald trump is no dummy. what he's doing is he's floating out mr. tillerson's fame to see what the public reaction is going to be, to see if he's that conservative recoils back on this nomination and see if in fact the american people recoil back on this nomination i suspect he probably has governor romney in his back pocket just in case the tillerson nomination sinks. >> okay. jonathan, any scenario that you envision where tillerson's relationship with putin ends up working with the u.s. advantage? >> well, it's hard to predict things. you could see a situation where maybe the united states and rush got together to, you know, apply joint policy in syria, for instance, got together on fighting isis. the problem is russia claims

it's fighting isis and then it just bombs syrian rebels, you know. they lie all the time about what they are doing internationally, and, you know, putin can't be trusted. i think he has trump exactly where he wants him now. pretty easy for putin to manipulate the trump administration though tillerson might make that a little bit harder to do. i don't think -- you mentioned mitt romney. to me he just got completely played by trump. i don't think trump ever >> you think it was a setup? >> i do. i don't have any proof of that, but he has him exactly where he wants him, the same way putin has trump where he wants him in that if romney now criticizes trump on anything, he can just say mitt is disappointed, he's sour grapes, wanted to be secretary of state and didn't get it. this is one of the things that this sort of "celebrity apprentice" selection process has allowed trump to do is anybody who didn't get a job is now in some ways neutralized as

a critic, you know. he can say the same thing about mccain. oh, mccain, he's sore at me for reasons x, y and z and disregard what he says, and however, and this is something we haven't really focused on yet. the critics of trump appointees only need three votes in the u.s. senate to block -- three republican votes to block any appointee, assuming the democrats hold firm and united. so that's why, for instance, rudy giuliani is not secretary of state, because rand paul indicated that he had three others who would join him in opposing giuliani, so if -- if jop mccain and lindsey graham decided that they were against tillerson and they could get one more person, they could block that nominee. >> robert, do you think russia had a hand in the outcome of the election? do you think the cia is revealing this now to alter the perception of who actually won the election?

>> you know, i don't know, simply because i'm not in the room when the cia is briefing members of congress and so forth, and from what i've read it appears russia did in fact tip the scales on so many different levels. here's what we know. we know that wikileaks obviously got this information from hacked e-mails. we know that those hacked e-mails probably came from a russian foreign agent, we know that, so if in fact you want to know this kind -- this egg in the basket here, it seems to be pretty obvious that vladimir putin was trying to influence the election because hillary clinton is such a complex individual, we know that she probably would have a hard line against vladimir putin and we know that vladimir putin probably fears hillary clinton more than a donald trump. so the answer to your question, alex, i think we know a lot of things but still a lot of things we don't know. >> but to you, jonathan, the same question, put this way. if these hacking reports are true, that russia's role actually changed the results of the election? >> well, that would -- they are not going to have another election, but it would and

already is greatly complicating the trump administration. trump is now almost at war with the cia, and he's not even president yet, and if you have, you know, a new secretary of state who is basically closely aligned with the russians and the russians have helped to tilt an american presidential election, wow. i mean, we are in totally uncharted territory with that, and that's what indications are right now, you know, that the cia has considerable evidence that putin tried to intervene in our election on the side of donald trump. >> disturbing to say the least and worthy of much more discussion. guys, thank you so much. as always, robert and jonathan, good to see you. >> thanks, alex. >> that's a wrap for me. i'm alex witt. thanks so much for watching and i'll be back here at noon. meantime, "a.m. joy" is up next with what's being called a case study for resistance in the trump era. ♪ ♪

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i did not believe that comey was the new j. edgar hoover. i thought that he would do the right thing for the country. comey who is, of course, a republican, refused to divulge this information on russia and the presidential election. >> do you believe jim comey should resign, senator reid? >> of course, yes. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." okay. this is how bold donald trump is. just an hour after my interview with outgoing senate minority leader harry reid on allegations that russia intervened in the u.s. elections that helped donald trump win, andrea mitchell told us secretary of state will be putin pal rex tillerson. he's known putin since he represented interestses in the 1980s and