>> i have enjoyed the conversations i've had. i think >> some say that about you too. >> i was going to say, it's probably a prerequisite for the job or at least you have to have enough craziness to think that he can do the job. i think that he has not spent a lot of time sweating the details of, you know, all of the policies that -- >> does that worry you? >> well, i think that can be, both a strength and a weakness. i think it depends on how he approaches it. if he -- if it gives him fresh eyes, then that can be valuable. >> he is usually, right? >> good morning, everyone. it's monday, january 9th.

. i feel like i've been gone for a year. >> you have. >> i never take that long. >> hi, heilemann. how are you doing? >> how is it going? >> really? you want to start this way? start 2017 like this? >> be nice. >> it's on. with us on set, managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann and msnbc political analyst and professor at the university of michigan school of public policy, former democratic congressman, harold ford jr. and in washington, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius joins us. >> harold ford, you're a football guy. tonight, alabama and clemson. what do you think? >> you got to knock the champ out. alabama are the champs and you got to see roll tide. i think they are going to win tonight. the offense of clemson is sophisticated and everybody thought washington was but deshawn watson is good.

>> any nfl games you saw this weekend that you were -- >> i watched the giants last night. and beckham couldn't come up with the catches when eli was throwing to him. you have to give credit to aaron rodgers. he was the hottest guy at the end of the season. >> packers are on a roll. >> somebody showed yesterday the winner of the giants/packers, whenever they have played in the playoffs, wins the super bowl. >> i didn't know there were playoffs yesterday. i haven't been following the nfl closely. >> great. let's get to the news now. >> hold on. i want to talk about the golden globes. >> that is the news? >> that is not the news. >> the game that happened yesterday. >> that and the golden globes. "the crown" won and la la land also won. >> into the oscars as a heavy favorite. >> it's overrated and it's more of a movie designed to make hollywood love itself. >> i heard that. >> it is very much a movie about creators and, you know -- but

it's very good. >> look at us. look at us. >> aren't we wonderful? we tried something new. we brought back the musical. it's about people who make musicals. >> very good. it's a muvensical inside a musi? like "singin' in the rain"? >> yeah, how i feel about that. never met a metta i didn't like. >> the office of the director of national intelligence findings on russia's involvement in the u.s. election. on friday, the dni released a declassified summary of a more detailed report that went to president obama and president-elect trump. the report makes the assessment that russian president vladimir putin ordered an influence campaign aimed at the presidential election. it says that russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the u.s. democratic process, quote, denigrate secretary hillary clinton by harming her

electability and potential presidency and stating, quote, we further assess putin and the russian government had a clear preference for president-elect trump. it said with high confidence, russia's military intelligence units, the gru, used websites to release u.s. victim data obtained in cyber operations and exclusives to media outlets and high confidence that rusch intelligence relayed stolen information from the dnc and senior democratic officials to wikileaks. the report goes on. russia collected on some affiliated targets but did not conduct a comparable disclosure campaign. still the department of homeland security finds that russian actors were not involved in vote tallying. they will use to influence future efforts in the united states and u.s. allies abroad.

still, many analysts are questioning the report for potentially being long on conclusions, but short on facts. "the new york times" max fisher writes that this dni report is so odd, i worry it will end up undermining facts that are already established by open-course methods. dan dressler at the fletcher school of law and diplomacy quoted this weekend, quote, i think it requires the reader to trust the intelligence agencies and we are now in a low trust society. >> which is why we have you here, david ignatius, because if this low trust society we find ourselves in and people don't trust golden globe balloteers they trust you. you get the conclusions and, wham, they hit you. i was surprised through the weekend, unfortunately, it is reacttions were limited to 140

character tweets. from a lot of experts who seemed less than impressed by the facts that were contained within this report. jeffrey goldberg said i wish there had been more facts. you saw what dan dressler and max fisher said. it was just odd and there seemed to be a lot of padding in there, including throwing in things about russian television shows for russian audience people and spoken in russian and somehow influencing our election. give us your take of the report. what was missing and what we still need to dig into? >> joe, i was one of the people friday night when i read the report who was surprised. the allegations are very strong. they are the ones that mika read at the outset in introducing this segment. but as i looked in the report, i thought the evidence was thin. you put out a query to me and a couple of of others saying what do you think? and i responded friday night. just that. that the evidence in this

unclassified version is not sufficient to back up the claims that were made. so that tells me that it's likely that in the classified version, which we have not seen, there is significantly more evidence and that raises really interesting question for congress. this week, democratic and republican members of congress will be briefed on the full unclassified report. and they are going to have some really tough decisions of what to make of that, how to respond. i'll look to john mccain and lindsey graham and democrats like adam schiff. one final point. it's possible that in this unclassified version, there are issues that, one, enforcement. fbi, our whole rule of law structure, are going to want to look at. there is an allegation of significant activity by russia. did any of that activity violate u.s. law? so those are the two things i'm looking for first. >> or actually sway the election in some way.

>> well, noe i think we will never know that fully and to know what changed somebody's opinion. >> the lead line in terms of support that putin ordered an influence campaign aimed at the election, that the goals were to undermine public faith in the u.s. democratic process and to denigrate hillary clinton. how? how, and how did they do that? >> here is another interesting thing again, david, looking at the experts and their view of it this weekend. i believe it was max fisher. i may be confusing him with somebody else. but somebody this weekend said it is obvious that from all of this that the russians didn't even think donald trump was going to win the election but they were more interested in denigrating hillary clinton and actually trying to make her election look illegitimate like she claimed putin's election was illegitimate in 2011. >> i think you hit on something important.

surely in the kremlin in mid october, you thought your efforts to to under mine the election by hillary clinton she would be upset and angry. i think from the russian standpoint, the idea that anything you could do to weaken this likely hillary clinton would have been attractive to putin, given what we know, what this report says. he had a grudge. he looked at her as his enemy. in his mind, she shot first and went after him first in 2011 and 2012. i think that is right. they were expecting probably in mid october that trump would lose and she would win. >> just one more question before we move on. i'm sorry, mika. >> it's going to be about the golden globes. >> it won't be about the golden globes or "the crown." you have to see that. i'm not going to second-guess the intelligence agencies. too much of that, obviously,

going around right now. but if they knew their declassified report was going to be so thin that it actually undermine their classified information, undermine their standing with the public, wouldn't it have been better for them just not to release a report? >> it's hard to second-guess that. i think they probably felt friday that there would be leaks and want ayacht as possible, an account of what they could declassify and legally tell people. i think the real test comes in the days ahead. what will congress do? this is an enormous responsibility for them. this is an's of a serious attack on the united states and political institutions. how are they going to respond? what i mentioned, is there any law enforcement legal issue that has to be followed up to maintain our rule of law, our structure? i think those are the questions we should in the back of our

minds. hopefully, we will know more about what wasn't told to us on friday. >> john i think matt iglesias tweeted after the report came out, one thing is for sure, i'm paraphrasing, but comey did more damage to hillary clinton than putin. >> david just said it's hard to know what the ultimate impact. in an election where you're talking about in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania, the margin was less than 1%. >> right. >> a lot of things happened. >> a lot of things. >> from 45 days to the end of the first debate. which one of those things was decisive? it's not one thing, a variety of things. it's clear that, to your point, there are three things that russia could get out of this. a three-fer. the notion of the undermining hillary clinton if she wins and the notion of undermining american democracy in general. >> right. >> on the longest shot, i think probably from anybody's reasonable point of view is -- >> if you win a lottery ticket

and get donald trump elected. if you get one of those three things done the campaign is successful. as it turns out, all three of those things turned on to happen. the perfect causation will never be proven but all three of the things that russia wanted end up happening as a result and not necessarily as a direct result of this one thing but that is a successful campaign by any standard. >> if you want to get into putin's head you can draw a straight line from hillary clinton in 2011 undermining his election and then him, obviously, doing this, harold, going, okay, you want to undermine my credibility? now i'm going to try to undermine yours. >> i think he probably did using in systemic way to undermine confidence in our system. i think the thing that is confusing us is you touched on it, one is you have democrats saying this is the reason that hillary clinton lost and john touched on that. i'm not necessarily convinced of that. but what i am convinced of and where i would differ a little bit and i think where you're going, you can correct me if i'm wrong, this is a problem.

blp t whether the declassified briefing gets into the details or not it's interesting to see david's point how congress reacts to this. i think it's broadly accepted that putin had a -- >> i think it's a huge problem. >> i think the political classes are so intoxicated with did this help trump win or not help him win? not really the point but his motive was to influence, to john's point, undermine confidence in the system, to hurt her if she was elected, to hurt her credibility and standing. and that has to be addressed by us as a nation. >> what i'm trying to figure out is whether the headlines got ahead of the story. >> right. >> whether the conclusions of the agencies are actually supported by the facts and the issues. now, regardless, this is extraordinarily dangerous to american democracy. this is an enemy trying to

influence by going in and hacking the dnc. that is a problem. all i'm saying is i saw the big headlines on friday. >> right. >> but then i started hearing from people that i respect, my go to people who know this better than anybody else, saying wait a second, we are not so sure the facts in this declassified report actually match up to the headlines. that is the inquiry here and that is what we all should do. we should be asking these questions without drawing any conclusions that would be less damming. it's not like we are shawn hannity tweeting god bless russia or whatever he tweeted yesterday. >> get ready. >> let's get the facts straight. >> when secretary clinton during the beginning of this investigation on her e-mail server that a mistake was made on her part and she made an effort to try to do something she shouldn't have done, it hurt

her throughout this campaign. one of the things president-elect trump should be very careful of, it's clear that the russians don't have our best interests at heart and he needs to say that forthrightly and consistently and then move on. >> he needs to say that every day. >> right. >> i will tell you -- >> a disconnect because they are not saying certain things that help with credibility. >> here is what he did say. >> i think one of the reasons why we didn't have this conversation over the weekend is because of his tweets. he stepped on the story. ed some things he should have never said. they were grossly inappropriate. he puts words into the mouth of spy agencies that they didn't say about no outcome of the election. and i think that -- i think that basically stepped on this story. >> i agree. >> when a story is thin, let it be thin. shortly after he was briefed by intelligence officials on friday, president-elect donald trump released a statement on the russian hacking report saying he had a constructive

meeting and conversation and that he has tremendous respect for the work and service done by the men and women of this community to our great nation. >> that's great. stop right there! hold on! >> a good tweet. >> go golfing. right there. great job. stop. no more, right? right, john? >> there is always more. >> i'm going to argue, oh, my god, take the other side of this. on the report's findings he said while russia, china and other countries outside groups and people are consistently trying to breakthrough the cyberinfrastructure of our governmental institutions and businesses and organizations, including the democratic national committee there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the collection including the fact that there was no tampering whatsoever with voting machines. there were attempts to hack the democratic national committee. but the rnc had strong hacking defenses and the hackers were unsuccessful. trump said he would appoint a

team to give him a plan to counterhacking within the first 90 days. what is wrong with that? later on, friday night, he tweeted gross negligence by the democratic national committee allowed hacking take place. the republican national committee had strong defense. on saturday morning, he wrote intelligence started very strongly. >> here is the one. even what he said the night before. the dncp it was true. they left the barn door open. but at the same time, he should have just been quiet. put out that statement. i love the intelligence agency. i have respect. boom. >> go shoot a 76. >> exactly. go golfing. >> but this is what is troubling and i have a theory and my theory is that donald trump has no minders on saturday morning. >> now stop! >> because -- no, i'm serious. because i find that some of the most outrageous things that

happen, happen on saturday morning with these tweets. >> really? >> you're saying a hole in our cyberdefenses? >> i think saturday morning i'm afraid reince and jared are going to have to figure out how to keep him occupied saturday mornings. >> how do we cover the saturday morning shift, guys? we have a problem. >> the tweets are, you know, come on now. intelligence stated very strongly there was absolutely no evidence that hacking affected the election results. voting machines not touched. only reason the hacking of the poorly defended dnc is so big that their totally embarrassed. >> we are going one tweet at a time. >> oh, my! >> not get overwhelmed. david, what trump says there true or false about the conclusions there was no tampering? >> and no smiling. >> no effect. >> the report is much more

cautious about effects. we should make that clear. what is fascinating about those tweets is the way in which trump just keeps coming back to chew on the bone. it's as if he feels that there is something here that is denigrating his win and undermining his standing. as you said if he had left it alone at the outset it would have sat there responsible and should i dare say presidential? the coming back part that is of concern. that's important because this process isn't going to stop today. it goes forward now. congress reviews this. congress probably will have its own investigation. there may be other investigations. president-elect trump, soon to be president trump, has to think how do i deal with this on an ongoing bases? you said in the past he can really wreck his early months with a collision. >> right. >> if he maintains this very defensive tone as if this is an attack on me and my victory. >> if the tables were turned and the attack was on hillary

clinton's victory, what would hillary clinton be saying? >> she would say i won. i'm setting up my cabinet. i won. >> people were trying to undermine her win. >> i got to say every time he goes he and talks about this stuff, it just draws people back to the fact that he lost the popular vote. he just needs to move forward. he is president of the united states. >> the other thing he needs to do is stop saying things that aren't true. >> right. >> that is the part where i might agree with you. >> to david's point, yeah, he comes back to it like a dog with a bone but the thing that troubles me and everybody should be concerned intelligence stated there was no evidence that hacking affected the election results. that is not true. just false. >> david -- >> why does he need to -- that is the thing. the repetition is a psychological quirk. obviously, he has defensiveness about this question but why does the president-elect make false

statements? no reason for him to do that. >> david said the report was -- >> i know. >> but i'm saying, though, that is my whole point. if i were in this position, i would stand back. i would put out the positive remark about the agencies and then i would have all my people go out and get all of the quotes from david ignatius and max fisher and go on the sunday morning shows going, i don't know. ignatius said it's awfully thin. i don't know. this sure worries me. this is a classic example, david, of a politician getting in the way of a news cycle that was actually going to probably break his direction. he just couldn't do it. >> there is overkill. again, let me stress. our reactions are to the public unclassified version. trump was exposed to the classified version and congress should be starting today. two phases here. maybe he was reacting to the second face, that his

defensiveness has to do with things we don't know about. >> all right. harold, your job is to try to start asking donald to go golfing on saturday mornings m early. >> we don't have that relationship. >> you know everybody. harold can get you on any golf course you want to get on in the world. maybe did you make sure it's a golf course you can't take your phone on. >> we have missed so many news stories and we will get to them. you have to shilt your pie hole for a second. >> golden globes? talk about that? >> no. still ahead on "morning joe" on the intel committee. congressman adam schiff joins us. national security correspondent for "the new york times" david sanger. also our new colleague, greta van susteren will join us.

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lauderdale, florida, nbc news correspondent kerry sanders on the story. what are we learning this morning, kerry, about the suspect as he prepares to face a judge? >> reporter: he'll be in the federal courthouse here. we know from the criminal affidavit involved in this that he has actually confessed, according to the fbi, that he decided to get on an airplane in alaska, make his way through minneapolis and eventually wind up here in ft. lauderdale. there is some security video of the shooting rampage that was obtained by tmz. as you can see in this video, the alleged gunman walks through the airport seemingly nonsha cla -- nons n bag claim area people started diving for cover. as you noted, final peer were killed. six people were wounded. if there is any good news, it's of those six people who were wounded, two have, morninthis m

have been released from the hospital. the authorities have been doing a lot of looking back at esteban santiago. they know it was in november in alaska when he walked into an fbi office saying that he was hearing voices, and that the cia was trying to control him and forcing him to watch isis videos. the authorities there decided that this was severe enough that they turned him over to the local authorities where he then was given some mental health counseling and some observation. but according to his family, that only lasted four days. the wrinkle in awful this is when he was handed over, he had a gun. they took the gun from him but when he was released about a month later, he went and reclaimed his gun and the authorities believed that may be the same gun that he used on the rampage here, mika. >> nbc's kerry sanders, thank you very much. once again, the intersection of mental health and guns which we have been talking about since

newtown. there are so many near misses for authorities where this happens time and time again. david ignatius, you look. the news breaking last week of just -- i know it's a bit different than this case, but what happened in brussels, all of the missed warning signs that they had. it was just a collection of errors that ended up leading to the killings in paris and brussels. >> it's just so hard for law enforcement, whether it's in europe or in the u.s., to walk that line between protecting people and respecting their privacy. none of us want to live in a police state where people get held under lock and key if there is any suspicion. but in each of these failures to connect the dots, one way the dots could have been more firmly connected was if law enforcement had been tougher, more aggressively surveying people

and put them under more control. i just would note. i was talking over the weekend to europeans about their security issues ahead, their worries about russians, their worries about isis terrorists coming out of syria and iraq. as upset as they were they sounded even more so. >> when we return the death of a former president of iran. nbc news tehran bureau chief will join us to talk about what lies ahead for america's fraught relationship with iran after the passing of one of the nation's most impactful leaders. we are back in a moment. with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go...

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? iran's president rafsanjani has died at the age of 82. media reports say he suffered a heart attack. he was the leader of the 1979 revolution ayatollah khomeini and later served as the nation's fourth president from 1989 through 1997, during which time he introduced several economic reforms. he was known for his more moderate views, along with his wit and cunning, both in the political arena and in business and his influence has been felt

in iranian affairs since before the 1979 revolution through present day. >> let's go to david quickly. david ignatius, ralph san januariy -- rafsanjani could be called pragmatic. moderates consider him a loss but when he needed to be a hard liner, he was a hard-liner, right? >> it's funny. joe, i thought of him in my several visits to iran a blockage. the aspicturaspiration. he always kept his deal with the hard-liners. he might support the rouhanis or the reformers but he never really left the camp of the way the regime is going to work. >> joining us now from london, nbc news tehran bureau chief,

ari. what more can you tell us about ralph janua rafsanjani's legacy? >> he played a critical role in the lead up to the revolution and held on to power and influence all the way till the end. he was a multimillionaire who remained amongst the elite despite moderate views which he tempered depending on the mood in the country. iranian media reported that he died of a heart attack last night and there were large crowds of his supporters outside the hospital, which showed that, you know, he still did have a lot of support in the country. you know, he had a mix of sly wit and a reputation for cunning moves, both in politics and business, which earned him the nickname such as the king maker and the shark, not only for being like a sharks but also for the lack of facial hair he had which is a prerequisite of being a mulla in iran.

his life touched every major event in iranian affairs since the 1979 revolution and even before it, whether directly or through back room deals, he was always there. he was seen as a steady and safe pair of hands during the turbulent years that the overalthough of the shah. his fortunes came somewhat when came to power. he lined himself with the moderates and made a comeback and very influential in getting rouhani re-elected. >> thank you, ari, very much. >> if i'm not mistake, rafsanjani goes back so far in

this story that we have all been following since 1979. i think rafsanjani revealed to the world that bud mcfarland brought a cake the shape of a key and a bible to iran -- >> why do you remember these things? >> because i'm rainman in some respects. it goes back so far that he was in the middle of all of that and he is the one that revealed that to the world but that is, again, symbolic of the fact of what you have said, we have always been searching for those moderates in iran and we have never been able to find those. >> he was one of the founding fathers. he was a survivor. he was a person who would balance both ends against the middle to keep going. i think he did earn, as many iranians do for a more modern company but he never was really to break the china to do it. still ahead on "morning joe," what is in a name? >> they can call it trump care.

they can call it mcconnell care or ryan care. if it actually works, i will be the first one to say, great. you should have told me that back in 2009. i asked. >> president obama previews the impending fight to stamp out his signature law. first, mike allen returns to e-mailboxes everywhere. are you going to subscribe? >> i already have. >> your brother has not. >> next on "morning joe." constipated?

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>> no, it's new. >> what happened? >> breaking tweet.

>> donald trump, merle streep one of the most overrated actresses in hollywood doesn't know me but attacked me last night at the golden globes. she is a dot dot dot next tweet. for the 100th time i never mocked and a disabled reporter would never do that but dot dot dot 16-year-old story he had written in order to make me look bad. just very more honest media! that was 65 seconds ago so we could have more. >> it's not even saturday morning! >> merle streep kind of went after him last night. >> one of the most overrated actresses in hollywood. >> or one of the greatest we have ever had. >> joining us now the cofounder of axius, mike allen, after 3,304 straight editions of the politico playbook, he is back this morning with the axios am newsletter. the company he cofounded with

jim vandehei. why would he go into business with vandehei after all of that? i don't get that. you're a good man. nbc news is a media partner for the new venture and we love jim as well. axios is different than what you've been doing. >> i want the newsletter. >> why do i want the newsletter? he wants everything. but why do i want it, mike? >> it's mike's top ten. it's ten items, it's numbered and we cover tech and business and politics and media. the big idea of axios, media has broken so much what is done in media is not friendly to the person who is reading it. it's more made for the journal. for this we have a modern look and a modern format and 5:30 in the morning you can get your fix. >> how do you set up for it? >> top ten meaning what? ten most important or what is the criteria for inclusion in the ten? >> it's the ten things we would

talk about if we sat down at breakfast. you're having breakfast with your smart friend. what are you going to talk about? your scoops, talk about what is going to happen today, what you did last night. >> it's basically a "morning joe" rundown? >> basically. we don't have to do any work any more. >> no. let's look at this. the number one thing -- >> the congress nman kind to as axiso.com and it's free and put in your e-mail address. one click. >> really? i'll do that. >> what is number one today? >> number one today is inside the playbook for trump's hearings. the trump confirmation hearings which a bunch of them this week. two tomorrow, four wednesday. i his nominees have a problem most nominees don't. in addition to answering for their own records and their own policies, they are going to have to answer for all of his saturday mornings, all of his tweets, all of the things that he has said, they are going to be teed up by democrats.

it's the first big chance that democrats have had to slam trump and they are going to take it. >> that is number one. number two, jared kushner. >> tell us about jared. >> this is a scoop very soon and be announced that the lawyers have found that he can go in, he'll be senior adviser. he is already talking about to people for his own staff. so instantly becomes one of the biggest players in the west wing and, therefore, one of the most powerful people in the world. you're going to have reince priebus, the chief of staff and steve bannon, the chief strategy gift and jared kushner is the best barometer of what you can tell sell to donald trump and the people who work with him say he is the one person you can count on to sell it to him, because the way that they put it to me, donald may yell at him but he knows he is still there at thanksgiving dinner. >> jared is getting a lot of press this week. the new york magazine cover, president-in law.

>> the young trump they call him inside. >> "the new york times" the same. i've said for sometime, it's a good and i think most people recognize it's good to have him nearby, only because if there is anybody that can sort of moderate anybody, jared is there a lot of times. >> everyone here is a student of white houses. yvonnivanka trump will also hav office in the white house. two people in the white house like two people you've never seen power like that. >> it's crazy. maureen dowd writes this in "the new york times." white house red scare. >> quote. the capital has never been more anxious about its own government. the town is suffering pretraumatic stress disorder. this guy is really going to be president? finally there is bipartisan consensus. it's time to flip out. decade after duck and cover was a way of life, people here are

once more than in duck and cover mode. on the verge of the inauguration, a time of stately ritual and tradition in a city baked in ritual and trarks, rit cal and trarks are out the window. donald trump is operating on an utterly new, unique, and freaky frequency. closed doors confabs in mahogany. and marble rooms with brass spittoons. >> let's go now to david ignati ignatius. >> waiting for the creature? >> does that describe the middle state of washington, d.c.? there is a vertigo in washington a free-fall i see all around me.

we will all, in a couple of weeks, begin to deal with the new reality and get to know people better. i've been going around visiting retiring members of the cabinet under president obama and i must say, whatever else you say about this administration, it had a lot of talented people. you can see the secretary of energy who is a nuclear physicist and one of the remarkable person i've met in government and he about to walk out the door and take all of that knowledge with him. it's a town in transition. a lot of talented people saying good-bye and for most of us, what is ahead is a mystery. >> people just don't know what to think, do they, harold? >> look. they don't. one of the things as joe and david know, this is -- this happens every four to eight years, you have a different administration come in with a different set of approaches. it's probably starker this go-round because of so many

people, democrat and republican, didn't think he could win it and even worked against him. i would argue he continues to play a very different political game and democrats are playing a very different political game. almost the same game it's been playing the last several years and trump, to your point, i was reading your points this morning about jared and bannon the reason they bond. democrats have to awaken to the null reality that is politics today. if we continue to play the same game that we played over the last eight years, we may find ourselves in a losing position. trump is flooding the confirmation hearings but democrats have done it before. we are focused on one thing while he is focused on another. i would encourage my democratic friends in washington to widen their lens, to widen their view -- >> what do you mean by that? >> well, we are not going to beat him again by playing the same old game by using the same old plays. he has defeated us on that front. as a matter of fact i think he

apologize and revels in us doing the same thing. if we don't understand the business people and working people in this country are looking for a different impact between government and them, we have a lot what has happened in this election and that we have to separate. no vote tallying kind of things happening and might have been an effort by russia to denigrate mrs. clinton but that happens in politics. we have to focus on the next election and that means trying to respond to the aspirations of everyday voters and i don't think we are doing a good job of that. >> i will say it again, you are not going to beat trump by going after him personally, by us looking at his tweets about merle streep. people don't care. but what they do care about -- democrats will beat trump by attacking him as being ideologically radical.

his labor choice being ideolo ideological radical. that is how you beat him. you do not beat him by going after these crazy tweets. though, i've got to say, there are 11 days until the inauguration. donald trump gave himself a shot of winning by stepping back the last 11 days, to a degree. and i think america is owed that, at least 11 days before the inauguration, stop tweeting. stop tweeting about merle streep! stop putting word into the mouth of intel agencies. i'm serious. just somebody around him needs to tell him, give it a rest! start preparing for your inauguration. stop being so thin-skinned! >> it's also, you know, look. if he wants to win, you know, calling chuck schumer a clown, just in terms of the likelihood

of being able to do deals -- a lot of people think schumer is open to working with trump but it doesn't seem like the right strategy on health care and other things. >> but it's worked for him. >> he would but it's a different environment. he didn't have to work with democrats before and not legislate and he didn't have to policy. >> you say it worked for him. >> it did. in a field of 16. >> it didn't work with him when he went after miss universe or when he went affair judge curiel or when he was mute on david duke. there were the ups and downs and there were the elections. he made horrible mistakes and then he self-corrected. there aren't those guide posts now. there aren't the chances to self-correct from a bad election results. all we are getting now are stupid spets tweets that need to stop. >> the point you're making he will say the results have been undeniable so the people around him say it's very difficult to convince him otherwise. >> of anything. exactly. i agree with that.

i think that -- the tweeting about the "the apprentice" or the golden globes, does anybody care? i don't care. i'm nor uncomfortable about the tweets about the intelligence report. i'd rather him, when it comes to policy, stick to news conferences, stick to real statements, stick to, you know -- address this to the nation. if he wants to have tun on twitt fun on twitter, who cares. i don't like the mixing of the two. >> the tweeting take on a different level of significance after january 20th? >> i think it's as significant as it ever was. we all look at this. >> i think he'll do the same. i think the media is going to start being able to sort through this. >> we will start getting bored. >> if you tweet and say something false about intel reports, that's news. if you tweet and say something about merle streep, i think most people will roll their eyes. >> yeah. >> to john's point he didn't tell the truth about things. if you're not telling the truth as president about intelligence is that taking on a different

level? >> god, i hope so. >> of course, it does. he mischaracterized what intel, the intel agencies unclassified report said. and so, yeah, that takes on -- they did not, as david ignatius said, they were egnostic. they basically said like a supreme court decision. we are not going to rule on this part of the case. >> we are not political analysts. >> mike allen, thank you very much. >> mike, we are very excited about your new venture. >> thank you so much. roll tide. >> roll tide. sign up, everybody. i'm signing up. i like that. >> of course, you do. >> because it's mike allen. i've missed you in my inbox. coming up a new score card for president obama and he's got more than one failing mark. the president of the national urban league, mark morrell

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threat to him, then we are going to have bigger problems than just cyberhacking. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, january 9th. still with us, we have managing editor of bloomberg politic, john heilemann and former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. joining the conversation, national security correspondent for "the new york times" david sanger. good to have you on board, david. we are going to begin with that office of the director of national intelligence's findings on russia's involvement in the u.s. election. on friday the dni released a declassified summary that went to president obama and president-elect trump. the report makes the assessment that vladimir putin. it says that russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the u.s. democratic process.

quote, denigrate secretary hillary clinton by harming her electability and potential presidency and stating, quote, we further assess putin and the russian government developed a clear preference for president-elect trump. it says with high confidence, gru used a it.0 persona and other websites to release u.s. victim data obtained in u.s. cyberoperations and shrufs excl to media outlets and russian intelligence relayed stolen information from the democratic national committee and senior democratic officials to wikileaks. the report goes on. russia collected on some republican affiliated targets but did not conduct a comparable disclosure campaign. still, the department of homeland security finds that russian actors were not involved in vote tallying. the report also concludes that moscow will use the lessons from

2016 to influence future efforts in the united states and u.s. allies abroad. so as we pointed out last hour, many analysts are questioning the report for being a little bit long on conclusions and short on facts. "the new york times" max fisher writes this dni report is so odd, i worry it will end up undermining facts that are already established by open source methods. and dan dressner tweeted this weekend i think it requires the reared to trust the intelligence agencies and we are now in a low trust society. >> and david ignatius, you had said before that the declassified version of this is thin. it does not really justify the conclusions drawn, but you say just hold on, we need to wait and see what the classified report contains later this week?

>> absolutely. i think that would be my question for my colleague david sanger who knows this beat better than anybody. david, what do you think is in that classified version that will go to congress this week? >> well, david, from everything that we know, there are actually two classified versions. there is one that is going to go to congress and then there is a sort of compartmentalized version which presumably the president-elect trump has seen and certainly president obama has, that goes deeply into the sources and methods. look. there are a couple of reasons, i think, that the intelligence community said nothing about their sources and i think they made a big mistake. i think that they needed to be a lot more forward leaning there. one is that some of this data clearly comes from human or technical means inside of russia. we disos in friday's paper that the initial tip came from british intelligence. what does that tell you? it tells you that they picked up

some of this material from the dnc in foreign networks and that means either that they got it from implants that we put in the russian networks or we got it from over here in conversations, or from a human source. now i think there were ways in which the intelligence community could have gotten at that issue because it's no secret to the russians that we are inside their networks without being so specific as to blow their sources. >> so, david, you said -- david sanger, you think the intelligence agencies made, quote, a big mistake in not being more specific. why do you think they made a big mistake? >> i think they underestimate the degree to which the country is suspicious about their conclusions. when you think about it, joe, we knew more about the mistaken intelligence on iraq. you'll remember when colin powell went to the united

nations. he showed satellite photographs and ran audio of intercept s an so so forth but turned out to be wrong. >> a great point, david. you talk about how suspicious americans are of their findings. of course, we always bring up what the cia director told george w. bush when he said, hey, this wmd info is a little thin and jumped up and down and waved his arms and said, mr. president, it's a slam dunk. you would think with that as a background and what you just said about colin powell's testimony before the united nations, that they would actually fill a need to present more compelling evidence publicly. >> that's right. they are stuck a little bit in the old think of sources and methods and some here are, i'm sure, very sensitive they can't reveal them. but cyber is a little bit different, joe. something that gives you access for cyber briefly may not last

very long. it's probably not going to last more than a few months. someone will figure it out and a new system will be put in place. the chance that your source, if it's an electronic one, if it's an implant in the system, is going to be as long-lasting as outlined sources is probably pretty low. >> shortly after he was briefed by intelligence officials on friday, donald trump released a statement on the russian hacking report saying he had a constructive meeting and conversation and that he has tremendous respect for the work and service done by the men and women of this community to our great nation. >> and we all decided this would have been a wonderful time to go out and play golf all weekend. >> on the report findings he said while russia and china and other countries and outside groups and people are consistently trying to braecketed the cyberinfrastructure of our governmental institutions, businesses and organizations, including the democratic national committee, there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election, including the fact that there

was no tampering whatsoever with voting machines. there were attempts to hack the republican national committee, but the rnc had strong hacking defenses and the hackers were unsuccessful. trump said he would appoint a team to give him a plan to counter hacking within his first 90 days. on friday night later he tweeted gross negligence by the dns allow democratic national committee to allow hacking to take place. then he tweeted this on saturday morning.allow hacking to take p. then he tweeted this on saturday morning. voting machines not touched. only reason the hacking of the poorly defended dnc's disgust is that the loss by the dems is so big that they are totally embarrassed. >> let's stop for one second so we have it on the record. >> fact check. >> fact check. >> right. all of these -- some of these tweets we talk about whether he did too many, of them. >> right.

>> to assert the report that voting machines were not touched even to claim and argue there was no effect on the outcome is donald trump's opinion but to state that the intelligence report states clearly that there was effect on the outcome is false. >> that's faus. >> false. >> it's just not true. >> even if he wants to go nuts on twitter, why does he need to lie on twitter. there is a printed paper we are all able to read it. >> also, on a printed report where experts are lining up saying it is thin any way. when tweets that, we don't really hear about the questions and as david said, they made a big mistake and david ignatius said the report was thin. goat in his own way. >> the story becomes donald trump's liar rather than the arguments he wants to make. >> other than the focus being on what exactly do they have? >> then he went on to tweet about how he hopes to work with russia. quote, having a good relationship with russia is a good thing.

not a bad thing. only stupid people or fools would think that it is bad. we have enough problems around the world without yet another one. when i am president, russia will respect us far more than they do now. and both countries will perhaps work together to solve some of the many pressing problems and issues of the world. >> i want to open this up to david sanger and david ignatius. it is fascinating to me that this country has elected smart, capable, able presidents throughout our history that all seem to believe in their super natural power to influence russian dictators from stalin to vladimir putin. you can back to the end of the war, as fdr was nearing death, most -- most historians' account

of that was that fdr overestimated his ability to make a personal connection with joseph stalin, a dictator that had the show trials and ended up killing probably about 35 million of his own people. then, of course, we have george w. bush saying this about vladimir putin, followed by i guess hillary clinton and had the reset button. and then barack obama. let's take a look at these clips. >> answer the question, i looked the man in the eye. i found him to be very straightforward and trust worthy. we had a very good dialogue. i was able to get a sense of his soul. >> this represents what president obama and vice president biden and i have been saying and that is we want to reset our relationship, so we will do it together.

>> thank you very much. >> you're very welcome. >> we worked hard to get the right russian word. do you think we got it? >> you got it wrong. >> i got it wrong. >> it should be. [ speaking in foreign language ] . >> my last election. >> david sanger, why do our leaders, including the president-elect, is seen so naive? you look at bush, it's just you cringe. you look at hillary, you cringe. you look at obama, you cringe. and now it looks like donald trump thinks he is the first person who thinks he can schmooze his way into the heart of vladimir putin. he is not. we fail at this every time. >> we do, joe. i think if you get to be elected president and no small

accomplishment and donald trump pulled off something that none of us thought that he was going to pull off, i think you build up a tremendous confidence in your own ability to be persuasive and david has written a lot on this topic before so i'd be interested to hear what he had to say. but i think in this case, it's fairly clear that from this report that we don't just have a cyberproblem. we have a russia problem. the russia problem is that russia has fundamentally moved from the concept we had after the fall of the berlin wall and the collapse of the soviet union they would become part of europe to one in which putin decided that his role in life is to be the anti-america. and i think it's going to be only a matter of time before the trump administration discovers that. certainly there will be areas we can work together. iran was one of them. but i think the idea of having a broad reset right now is going to be pretty hard to pull off. >> david ignatius, what would

you want to see in a perfect world? donald trump in terms of how he presents toward russia and any evidence that trump isn't, at this point, just putting out his opening bid into what will ultimately be whatever deal we have? >> which is what he is doing with the saudis and what he is doing with israeli and what he is doing with everybody. he is putting out his opening bid. >> it's his approach to disrupt and destabilize and challenge your opinions and then see how he can get the best deal. trump is right. it's in everybody's interest and the world's interest to have a better less dangerous relationship between the u.s. and russia. that is the aspiration of sensible people sinned the cold war and the '50s and '60s. we should all endorse that idea. the idea is we are dealing with a very aggressive, very risk-tolerant vladimir putin who is playing russian weakness with great skill in a way that just look at this intelligence

report. just take the allegations, interfere directly in our election system. so to get to this better relationship is going to have to be some tempering of russian behavior. does president-elect donald trump understand that being tough with russia, you can make a deal that is mutually acceptable, that reinforces the rules that make the world work. i think that is the question. he seems now ready to exceed to donald trump that he says, you know, he can talk to, he says nice things about me, but, you know, this is, i think, going to be a very bumpy process of bargaining over the next couple of years. >> it seems to me that president-elect trump has, again, divorced the idea of the russians impacting vote tallying and their willingness to impact their influence voters choice in this election. mr. trump concedes essentially in his tweets that the russians did hack.

he just basically says that the republicans had a better defense than the democrats. now if he is playing that kind of game as president, the reality is that our systems were hacked, just party systems were not hacked. at least he is asserting. you can't conclusively say that the republicans were not hacked. i just wish he would acknowledge there is a problem here, we should fix it. the election is over, i won fair and square. you guys said is best last week. i think the president-elect would believe his -- that it lacks some legitimacy because of -- he needs to get beyond that. >> the entire argument kind of belittles the bigger picture with russia. i can think of a long list of things that would give the president-elect pause about a relationship with russia and perhaps if he would include that in his comments i have concerns about russia and i look forward to a, b and look forward to -- that would help. >> that would be helpful but even a year ago when we had him

on the show, when i brought up the fact that putin assassinated journalists, assassinated political opponents, his response was we kill a lot of people here in the united states as well. >> well, the fact that just a week ago after the obama administration posed sanctions the fact that he congratulated putin for being smart for ignoring the president's administration sanctions is an incredible thing to do. >> sanctioning russia for interfering with our lex and trump is congratulating putin how he is handling it. it is way off. >> i bring up last december because a lot of people are focusing, david sanger, what happened over the past three or four months of this election. this has been a missiving relationship for well over a year, well before there was any talk of the influencing of the elections. i want to pass something by you, though. donald trump believes that the

biggest mistake that has been made in the u.s./russian relationship over the past four to eight years, when barack obama demeaned russia by calling it a regional power with very little impact across the globe and basically an economic basket case. trump says he believes that that took a country whose foreign policy fueled on resentment and just made them strike out even more. is that legitimate or not? >> well, it probably wasn't the most diplomatic thing to say. russia's economy has shrunk and no longer what it was and its influence has shrunk and you see vladimir putin using tools like s cyber because they are suited for a broke country with a large nuclear arsenal that it largely can't use. i think president obama was accurate in his description.

probably didn't help the situation to say it. that said, long before president obama made that assessment, you saw russia acting the way it was acting in ukraine, syria, and so forth. i think you could hardly ago rg it was president obama's statement that led vladimir putin down this path. >> oh, no, no, no. i'm not saying that at all. i'm merely saying that is donald trump's mental state right now, thinking that this is why we are going to lean over backwards to russia. i think he is leaning over far too much. we are talking about a leader who has invaded georgia under george w. bush. and crimea under barack obama. >> right. >> again -- >> i would like to see that brought into the conversation. some context. >> how do you have an opening to that? who is he going to invade during

the trump administration? it seems to me this guy has been such a bad actor on the international stage. it seems you're right, this is a very dangerous play. >> it is. when we did an interview with him, we did to. maggie and i had done with trump, we asked about ukraine and his response sort of stunned me. he said, you know, no one really cared about ukraine except us. i don't know why we did all of these sanctions. he said the germans and europeans didn't care. that wasn't my memory. they participated in the sanctions quite fully. and so i think one of the things to look for this week at the confirmation hearing for rex tillerson, the nominee for secretary of state, is whether or not he indicates that the new administration is going to look toward backing away from those sanctions. i think that could be a big split with the europeans if it happens.

>> right. david ignatius, there is even to me a bigger issue here which is the question of nato and donald trump has expressed in "the new york times" and others lack of necessarily the continuing the u.s.' role in nato, lack of full support for nato. is that not a u.s. backing away from nato, is that not ultimately the greatest gift you could possibly give to vladimir putin, someone who clearly has expansionist designs for russia? >> i think, john, you hit one of the key points, that putin feels threatened by an advancing nato. he wants to chip away at the periphery. he is trying to pull turkey away from a close nato alliance as we speak. putin is president payback. he has said the catastrophic event of his lifetime is the fall of the soviet union. he is trying to put back soviet

influence months by month. >> do you believe with the op-ed in "the new york times" putin is an ultimate realist? he understands the limit of russian influence? >> joe, think he understands the limits when the limits are clearly demonstrated to him. the problem is that the limits have been residing. he has been pushing on an open door. syria is a perfect example and, to be honest, so is ukraine. he is going to keep pushing. you talk to europeans. they are really frightened about the effect of russian influence on their election next year, unless the u.s. gets tougher and they see a trump, rather than being tough against putin, it looks like he is ready to exceed. >> david sanger, when you wrote "the inheritance" eight years ago, obviously, barack obama inherited a mess on the international stage in a lot of areas, but could you have foreseen him taking as passive a

role on issues like seyria? the very things europe is concerned about that the united states has not been as forward leaning over the past several years as we had in the past? >> i think to some degree he had a better first term on these issues than he did on the second. in the first term he did the afghan surge. in the first term, he did the cyber attacks on the iranian facilities that ultimately drove them to the table. he was a little more willing to get out there. by the second term, i think that he came to view himself as very much as the president who promised to pull us out of these conflicts, talked a lot about how nation building is what we need to do at home, and i think the pendulum swang too far in the other direction, just as david suggested. vladimir putin saw some openings and pushed on them and really

met no resistance. i think that is what is so curious about president-elect trump's statements. you would imagine a republican president coming in saying i'm going to set some limits, and he has said that in every case, except russia. >> david sanger, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," our new colleague greta van susteren joins us. later this morning the top democrat on the intelligence committee, congressman adam schiff. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday.

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>> it's big. >> it's huge. >> it is big news. >> i'm not talking about that. >> oh, not that? no. >> that was crushing. joining from capitol hill, the host of "for the record," msnbc brands-new show which debuts this evening at 6:00 p.m., greta van cususteren. >> she is a huge packer fan. unbelievable. >> if you guys had told me you'd start that way, i would have brought my cheese head. it's actually in my car in the garage right now in case anybody wants to see it! i'm very excited about it. >> go get it and come back. i'm nervous. is your set done? i've been following you on twitter. >> this is an exciting. i don't know what to say. i'm thrilled about the packers and thrilled to be here. >> but is your set done yet? phil griffin -- >> he is going to bring? some duct tape and put it together for you. >> he keeps promising mika and me he will give us three proof

of purchase seals for our december's salary. you're going to find out on everything is a little slower over here. >> here is i didn't understand the scenes. last night, we were working doing a rehearsal. i think the set is finished, although they were staying long after i left and they are still tweaking all sorts of things. look at that. isn't that great? >> very sharp. >> very cool. >> it's so fun to be the new kid. you get all of the new stuff, don't you? >> it doesn't last long, greta, but you know that. >> they don't give us light. we have flashlights up there. it looks like you have real light. give us a preview. what is the show going to be like? i'm not saying this because, you know, we don't play tv here. i'm genuinely curious. what are you going to be doing? >> a catchy named called "for the record." tonight, we are going to have, among other things, valerie jarrett and reince priebus and to sort of steal a phrase you may have heard before, i consider it fair and balanced. the show is going to be about facts. we are going to go out and i'm going to ask questions and how

the chips fall. they may fall, but, you know, i'm hoping, you know, i'm hoping to also do some unfinished business. stories i started and never finished. bob levinson, what happened to him? the former head of the fbi. and where are the boko haram girls, where are they? we will be talking about the hearings this week. we are going to be doing everything i think that is current and give me a little chance to finish up some business i left incomplete. >> we haven't had a show around here for a while on the law, that focuses on the law. are you doing that a bit? >> look at senator jeff sessions. he is going to be the highest ranking lawyer in the nation and we will be talking about his hearings and his past and whether he is going to make a pass confirmation which i think but i think his nose will be bloodied by some of the things that occurred over the years. . laws, everything. that u.s. capitol behind me they

make laws. i love trials. trials are fascinating. even what happened on ft. lauderdale the other day, i mean, that involves the law. yes, we are going to do that and basically i'd like to do sports, too. >> sports, especially if the packers are winning. let me ask you, how long were you over at fox? >> 14 1/2 years. >> my gosh. >> wow. >> is it weird not being there? obviously, there is a culture there and there are a lot of friendships and it's a tight culture for a lot of people over there. >> what has the transition been like? >> has it been weird walking into a studio that is not a fox studio? >> well, yes, of course, it's weird. i was there 14 1/2 years and i have a lot of good friends there. you and mika do too. i was out of the building for three or four months. the msnbc studios are in the same building so i show up for rehearsals and now i'm a guest because i hadn't gotten my nbc credentials, msnbc credentials so i'm on a different floor. instead of pressing one number

to get up to the studio, i press another number. it's sort of weird having been gone three and a half or four months and now i'm back in the same building. so that is strange. parking lot is the same. that is the weirdest thing. everything is just a tad bit weird for me that way. >> i bet it is. >> i look forward to watching. i really can't wait. we have new reports this morning that the office tasked with overseeing ethics and conflicts in the federal government has struggled to gain access to leaders of the trump transition team. the director of the office of government edic ethics said thee risking impra ining embarrassme president-elect. on friday, the office sent democratic senators chuck schumer and elizabeth warren a letter stating that some nominees had not submitted their financial information and ethics disclosures ahead of multiple confirmation hearings this week. democrats are urging senate republicans to allow time for

review with senate minority leader dick durbin saying we are dealing with more billionaires than we have ever seen in one place with this trump cabinet and it creates a special challenge. but senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says the process will move along. >> we have confirmed seven cabinet appointments the day president obama was sworn in. we didn't like most of them either. but he won the election. so all of these little procedural complaints are related to their frustration in having not only lost the white house but having lost the senate. i understand that but we need to sort of grow up here and get past that. we need to have the president's national security team in place on day one and papers are still coming in. >> so help me out here, though. mitch mcconnell said -- we have two things going here. the first thing we hear is the incoming trump administration is not providing the documents that

senators need before they vote on somebody. mitch mcconnell saying, come on. did the obama administration nominees present all of these supporting documents for senators to review? >> they most certainly did. last night there surfaced a letter from mitch mcconnell to harry reid laying out the standards by which mcconnell wanted to make sure those nominees were judged and said they would only undertaken ta it aft -- after the letter was reviewed. >> mitch mcconnell said that when? >> february 12th, 2009. >> mcconnell is saying back then we are not going to vote on your selections until you give us full financial disclosures and there is the tweet fr.

mcconnell yesterday on "face the nation" i believe not being perfectly straight. yes, they did confirm them and confirmed them quickly but only affiliate paper work was done. >> harold, are the republicans going to require this? i would think john mccain and lindsey graham and jeff flake and others will require those financial forms to be sent. i don't think it's just a democratic/republican thing, right? >> one would hope. i teach at the university of michigan. in order to go into the classroom i have to show up at the registrar's office. this is grounds for democrats that we won't move forward. >> they have to, especially steve mnuchin is the treasury secretary. greta, obviously -- >> i'm wondering about the office of ethics. once they get that information i

think it's entirely appropriate for ten or 11 hearings to take place. >> if you and i are in congress and somebody wants us to vote on something, we are going to have to get the material and review it first. >> you need something to vote on. >> this is just the basics. the office of government ethics saying you have to presents us this basic information before we can go forward about your the temperament of your qualities. >> greta who are you most interested or concerned about those nominated? >> i'm not concerned because i'm not one of them. i think what don't they want to answer and what they don't want to answer, any questions that are sort of opposing something that president-elect trump has said. i mean, the last thing that senator jeff sessions wants to talk about is the wall, a ban on muslims so those are the questions he doesn't want to answering. i think many of them are going to get their nose bloodied during this questioning process but with the fact that they only need 51, they are all okay and

all probably going to get confirmed. the one thing i don't understand is mcconnell referring to ethics as a procedure. ethics saints just some sort of procedural nicety. they really need to get that done for the american people. it's like when someone says th constituon constitution a fourth amendment violation, a technicality. no. ethics is important and get your paper work and get going because the american people deserve that. if it turns out they have a problem later, guess what. we will have lots of hearings and distractions and people aren't going to get the things fixed what they want with obamacare or taxes or anything because we are mired down in another big scandal so get it in! it's not just a procedure. ethics is important. >> all the people said amen. and go packers. bring your cheese head next. >> it's in the back seat. >> if this were a democrat were you urge republicans not to move forward with confirmation hearings -- >> let me turn that on you.

if this were a republican and i were a republican. >> even better. >> they wanted my vote. >> even better. >> i would say you'll get my vote if i actually have material to review and if you pass the sniff test. i swear to god, i would never, in a million years as a republican, and i asked people when i was there. i was a jerk. i always wanted to read the bills! when they said trust me, i said my voters didn't vote me in office to trust you, newt gingrich. to drust yotrust you, dick army. my voters voted me in to look at the facts. i remember getting in trouble time and time again. so, no, as a republican, i would never vote for any nominee for any cabinet position until they filled out the supporting documents. >> table sticks. >> guess what. let me speak. i know we have to go but alex, i have to say this to my

republican friends. to my republican friends in the senate, if you don't demand these documents, if you don't review their financial information, and then a scandal blows up three, four, five months down the road, your voters aren't going to blame them. >> they will blame you. >> the voters are going to blame you. greta, thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. happy to be here! >> we are really happy to have you. welcome aboard. >> mika and joe, thank you so much and i'm so excited to be your colleagues. >> we are thrilled to have you here. >> we will be watching the debut "for the record." >> thank you for all you've done in haiti as well. we followed that. >> very interested in that ongoing story there. "for the record" debuts tonight at 6:00 right here on msnbc. greta's first guests include senator john mccain. >> great. >> incoming white house chief of staff reince priebus and obama's

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i am saying to every republican right now, if you, in fact, can put a plan together that is demonstrably better than what he is doing i will support repealing obamacare and replacing a plan but i want to see it first. >> you're not going to see it because the republicans don't have the plan. >> ezra klein joins us with his interview with the outgoing president next on "morning joe."

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they wanted to do was personalize this, and feed on antipathy towards me in their party. as an organizing tool. as politics. but i -- i don't have a pride of authorship on this thing. if they can come up with something better, i'm for it, but you have to show -- and i would advise every democrat to be for it, but you have to show that it's better and that's not too much to ask. >> no more -- >> that's fair. >> asking republicans to have a replacement plan is no more than asking pigs to fly across the atlantic ocean. at super sonic speed. not go to get one. trump care or ryan care plan if it works better than his health care plan. with us from washington, d.c., editor and chief of vox.com. the president and national urban league, also, out with a new

score card of thefascinating. >> get to that in a moment. first question, branding, ezra, impressed with the branding you actually give vox. not the player house it is the vox player house. quite impressive. >> our original intention. wanted to take over the president's guest house and make it our own. fundamentally imperialist organization. >> i see that. >> you get it. the president at times has been accused in his administration of critics of being arrogant, every reason to be self-confident on this count that the republicans simply still do not have a replacement plan adequate to take the place of obama care. >> but i think the problem right now is that they have -- i really do believe this is right where it blundered into a strategy, where not having a replacement plan, they can never the less destroy the system as it currently exists. normally the way this would work, try to come up with your plan and either come up with something or you wouldn't. or you would come up with something that wasn't good

enough to pass. you hit bun of the latter two conditions nothing happens. embarrassing, but left with a status quo. repe and delay, trigger a two or three-year repeal plan, what we have could collapse, insurers will not stay in the marketplace if they think it's going to disappear a year or two from now. a dangerous approach. >> right. the danger, mr. mayor, right now they're having enough insurers. insurance companies scatter, the whole thing collapses and not on barack obama's shoulders, it's going to be on donald trump's shoulders and the republican congress' shoulders. >> good politics doesn't always mean good policy. good politics doesn't always mean good government and the call to repeal obama care made sense for the republican base, but it doesn't translate that

that rallying cry translates immediately into a better plan, and i think the president's absolutely right. show us the plan. show us the beat. show us what you have, and i say, let's retain the affordable care act until and unless there's a better idea. >> and ezra, the big fight in the republican party now. you have a president-elect who has said, i'm not going to repeal, vote for a repeal, until you have a replacement, and yet you've got all of these congressmen, congresswomen and senators promising for five, six years they're going to repeal it the second they get a chance. >> so here's a problem republicans are facing on this. what they dislike about obama care and what voters dislike about obama care are not the same things. and for years now they have been eliding that. i saud mitch mcconnell on "face the nation," obama has been a disaster, left still 25 million people uninsured, it has high

premiums, high detect automobile -- high deductibles. all that is fair but is he committing to a replacement plan with lower deductibles than obama care does? there are a bunch floating around, just not one they've all agreed on and they don't do that. so what's about to happen a collision between what republicans have found politically useful to attack obama care on, because people want better insurance. they want more insurance, cheaper insurance, more generous insurance and what they're actually offering, or want to do, which is lower taxes, less total insurance, sparser insurance, higher duct dabble more consumer directed plans are reasonable ideas but will make a lot of people angry. >> great points. marc morial, rapid fire here, obama score card. successes, failures, missed opportunities, jobs in the economy. go. >> superior. >> okay. >> criminal justice? >> good. >> only good? >> no.

excellent. >> excellent? really? health? >> excellent. >> okay. >> civil rights and executive appointments. >> i would say excellent, not superior, but excellent. >> how about -- the revitalization, something you that care a great deal about? the revitalization of urban areas? >> i would give him a fair on that, because i think that in that area particularly, we would like too have seen a continuation of some of the targeted policies that were part of the stimulus. a greater focus on that. i mean, the big news around our score card, joe is that we give him an excellent rating, and i think if people look at our report we were fair, balanced across the board. look, he will leave office with a higher approval rating than any modern president, except for bill clinton. he'll be higher than reagan. only clinton, fdr and eisenhower will, have left office with a higher --

>> so we think that -- >> all told, president obama has been an excellent president and i think history will judge him fairly. >> eight years later, i can't believe how long this show was on the air, before barack obama was sworn into office, tiv avis smiley was here and said barack obama would be so concerned about being seen as a president of all the united states, and not being seen as a black president, that he -- might not focus as much on race issues as needed to be focused on, and we saw that early on -- well, with, i guess, the cop in cambridge and -- it happened time and again where he was actually judged, i think more harshly whenever he talked about race. >> that's one of the most important questions. we debated this. what's the standard by which you evaluate president obama? in comparison to his predecessor? some hypothetical perfect president standard out there? or is it the superman standard?

that he's supposed to leap tall buildings with a single bound, cure hundreds of years of social and economic ills in this country? so we think, and as i thought, and tavis is a friend but differ with him that it was important that we evaluate the president at the end that we give him a full opportunity and i think at the end, after eight years, i think history will demonstrate, and our report says he's been an excellent president. >> marc morial, thank you very much. reading the national urban league score card of the obama presidency, the legacy. thank you so much. >> ezra klein. >> thank you as well. >> watching your interview with the president on vox.com. hope you'll come back. we would like to talk more about what happens next with the affordable care act? >> always >>hank you b right back with much more "morning joe." tech: this mom didn't have time to worry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot.

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clemson, defense, deshaun watson best you face. defense is the pro defense. >> first time really worried. any nfl games you saw this weekend that you were -- liked? >> watched the giants last night. >> yeah. >> and -- my man beckham couldn't come up with the catches when eli was throwing to him. you got to give credit to aaron rodgers. hottest guy in the season. >> packers are on a roll! >> someone said yesterday, the winner of the giants/packers, whenever they have played in the playoffs. >> wins the super bowl. >> yeah. we'll see if that happens. >> i didn't even -- following the nfl too closely. >> great. get to the news. >> hold on. i want to talk about the golden globes. >> that is the news? >> that is the news. >> a game that happened yesterday. >> that and the golden globes. "the crown" won. good. "la-la la l-la land" won a lot. >> a heavy favorite rolling into the oscars.

>> it's a good movie. >> overrated. more of a movie designed to make hollywood love itself. >> right. i heard that. >> it is. very much a movie about creators and -- but, you know, it's very good. >> look at us. look at us. now we're going to give out awards. >> aren't we wonderful? tried something new? brought back the musical. about people who make musicals. >> it's very good. so it's a musical -- >> singing and dancing about people who sing and dance. >> a musical inside a musical, kind of like "singing in the rain." >> right. >> we're going to begin with the office of the director of national intelligence findings on russia's involvement in the u.s. election. on friday the dni released a more detailed report that went to president obama and president-elect trump. the report makes the assessment russian president vladimir putin ordered an influence campaign aimed at the presidential election. it says that russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the

u.s. democratic process, "denigrate secretary hillary clinton by harming her electability and potential presidency" and stating "we further assess putin and the russian government develop add clear preference for president-elect trump." it says, "with high confidence russia's military intelligent units, the gru, used gusfer 2.0 and other websites contained in cyber operations as well as to media outlets and has high confidence russian intelligence relayed stolen information from the dnc and senior democratic officials to wikileaks." the report goes on -- russian collected on some republican affiliate ed targets but did not conduct a comparable disclosure campaign. still the department of homeland security finds that russian actor was not involved in vote tallying. the report also concludes that

moscow will use lessons from 2016 to influence future efforts in the u.s. and u.s. allies abroad. still, many analysts are questioning the report for potentially being long on conclusions but short on facts. the "new york times," max fisher writes, that this dni report is so odd i worry it will end up undermining facts that are already established by open-source methods, and den dressner, a professor at fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts tweeted this weekend, "i think it requires the reader to trust the intelligence agencies, and we are now in a low-trust society". >> which is why we have you here, david ignatius, because in this low trust society that we find ourselves in, where people don't even trust golden globe balloteers, they trust you. and i was -- i was really surprised at, first of all, you get the conclusions and wham. they hit you. but i was surprised through the weekend, unfortunately -- the --

the reactions were limited to 140 character tweets, but from a lot of experts who seemed less than impressed by the facts that were contained within this report. jeffrey goldberg said, i wish there had been more facts. you saw what dan drezner said and max fisher. you know, just odd. there seemed to be a lot of padding in there including, you know, throwing in things about russian television shows, russian audiences spoken in russian, some influencing our election. give us your take of the report. what was missing? and what we still need to dig into? >> joe, i was one of the people friday night when i read the report who was surprised. the allegations are very strong. they're the ones that mika read at the outset in introducing this segment, but as i looked in the report, i thought the evidence was thin. you put out a query to me and a couple of others saying what do

you think? and i responded friday night. just that. that the evidence in this unclassified version is not sufficient to back up the claims that were made. so that tells me that it's likely that in the classified version we have not seen there is significantly more evidence, and that raises really interesting question for congress. this week, democratic and republican members of congress will be briefed on the full unclassified report and will have really tough decisions of what to make of that, how to respond. i'll look to john mccain, lindsey graham, also obviously look to democrats like adam schiff, and one final point. it's possible that in this unclassified version there are issues that law enforcement, fbi, our whole rule of law structure are going to want to look at. there's an allegation of significant activity by russia.

did any of that activity violate u.s. law? those are the two things i'm going to look for first. >> actually sways the elections in some way? >> well, i think we'll never know that fully, to be honest. never be able to know what changed somebody's opinion. >> when you look at the lead lines here in terms of the report that putin ordered an influence campaign aimed at the election, that they, the goal was to undermine public faith in the u.s. democratic process, and to denigrate hillary clinton. how, how, and how did they do that? >> and so another interesting thing, david, again, looking at the experts and their view of this weekend. i believe it was max fischer, may be confusing him with somebody else, but somebody this weekend said it is obvious that from -- from all of this that the russians didn't even think donald trump was going to win the election, but they were more interested in denigrated hillary clinton, and actually trying to make her election look illegitimate, like she claimed putin's election was

illegitimate in 2011. >> i think you've hit on something important. surely in the kremlin in mid-october you thought that your efforts to undermine u.s. election process, hillary clinton, were going to backfire. she would get elected, be upset and angry. but i think from the russian standpoint the idea that anything you could do to weaken this likely victor, hillary clinton, would have been attractive to putin. given what we know, what this report says. he had a grudge. he looked at her as his enemy. in his mind, she shot first. she went after him first, back in 2011-2012. so i think that's right. they were expecting, probably, in mid-october, that trump would lose, and she would win. >> so, david -- sorry. one more question before we move on. i'm sorry, mika. i think this is absolutely fascinating. >> going to be about the golden globes it won't be about the golden globes or "the crown."

if you haven't seen it, see it crown. absolutely extraordinary acting. i'm not going to second guess intelligence agencies. obviously too much of that going around right now, but if they knew their declassified report was going to be so thin, that it might undermine, actually undermine their classified information and undermine their standing with the public, wouldn't it have been better for them just not to release a report? >> you know, it's hard to second guess that. i think they probably felt friday that there would be leaks and they wanted as accurate as possible an account of what they could declassify. what they could legally tell people. i think the real test comes now in the days ahead. what will congress do? this san enormous responsibility for them. this is an allegation of a serious attack on the united states and its political institutions and how will they respond?

and is there any law enforcement legal issue to maintain our rule of law, our structure? those are the questions we should have in the back of our minds. hopefully we'll know what more wasn't told to us on friday. >> john, i think after the report came out a tweet, one thing's for sure, and i'm paraphrasing, comey did more damage to hillary clinton than putin. >> look, it's always -- david said, hard to know what the ultimate impact, in an election, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, the margin was less than 1%. a lot of things happened 45 days from the first debate until the end. which one of those things was ultimately decisive? not one thing but a variety of things but it's clear to your point. there are three things russia could get out of this. it's a three-fer. destable -- the notion of undermining hillary clinton if she wins. notion of undermining american democracy in general and then on

the longest shot, i think probably from anybody's reasonable point of view was -- >> if you win a lottery ticket? >> you get donald trump elected, but if you get one of those three things done, this campaign's been successful, as it turns out all three of those things turned out to happen. again, the perfect causation will never been proven but all three of the things russia wanted ended up happening a as result of not necessarily as a direct result of one thing but that's a successful campaign at any standard. >> if you want in putin's head draw a straight line from hillary clinton in 2011, undermining his election, and then him obviously doing this going, oh, okay. you want to undermine my credibility? now i'm going to try to undermine yours. >> i think he probably did more using in a systematic way trying to undermine confidence in our system. i think the thing that's confusing this is that -- you touched on it. one is, democrats saying that this is the reason that hillary clinton lost and john touched on that. i'm not necessarily convinced of

that, but what i am convinced of are and would differ a little bit, i think where you're going, correct me if i'm wrong, is that this is a problem. whether the declassified briefing gets into all of the details or not, it will be interesting to see david's point how congress reacts to this, but i think it is broadly accepted that poot didn't not have the best interests in our democratic system. >> a huge problem. >> where the focus -- i think the political classes are so intoxicated with, did this help trump win or not, that's not really the point. but his motive was to try to influence, to john's point, to try undermine confidence in the system to hurt her if elected, hurt her credibility and standing, and that has to be addressed by us as a nation. >> what i'm trying to figure out is whether the headlines -- >> exactly that. >> -- got ahead of the story. whether the conclusions of the agencies are actually supported by the facts and the issues.

now, regardless, this -- this is extraordinarily dangerous to american democracy. this is an enemy trying to influence by going in and hacking the dnc. that is a problem. all i'm saying is, i saw the big headlines on friday. >> right. >> but then i started hearing from people that i respect. my go-to people, who know this better than anybody else saying, wait a second. we're not so sure the facts in this declassified report actually match up to the headlines. so that's all i'm -- that's the inquiry here and that's what we all should do. we should be asking these questions without drawing conclusions it would be less damning. i mean, it's not like we're sean hannity's tweeting god bless russia or whatever he did yesterday. >> get ready. >> this is all about us doing what we -- let's get the facts straight. >> when secretary clinton did not acknowledge, during the beginning of this investigation

on e-mail server a mistake was made on her part and she made an effort to try to do something she shouldn't have done it hurt her throughout this campaign. >> right. >> one of the things president-elect trump should be very careful of, it's clear the russians don't have our best interests at heart and he needs to say that forthrightly and consistently. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the top democrat on intelligence in the house adam schiff joins us. we'll get his read of the intelligence report. also ahead, iran is mourning the death of a former president. we'll talk about how his work at times helped moderate his country and what his death means for the delicate balance between tehran and washington. but first -- bill karins says extreme weather covers the countriants dealt with snow in areas of the east and dealt with an epic storm, number two of a series of storms in california. in the truckee area of reno. this river failed in certain areas. they said the ditches failed, actually. and they had evacuations, people

spending time in schools overnight. at daylight will find out just how bad flooding was. the daylight video before the failure. the atmospheric river continues to move to the north and windy, too. unfortunately, a report, one other thing lost. now, up in areas, the sequoias are very famous. a picture, the before picture. this was about 500 to 1,000 years old, pioneer cabintry that crashed down during this storm. a lot of people sad about that. a lot of people hike and go see that tree, i conic in california state park. rainfall, 1 million under flood warnings in the area. on and off heavy rain from now until wednesday then a break thursday. five to seven inches of additional rain expected and that will be in the form of snow in the mountains. so, again, california's the bull's-eye of this epic storm in the west and more damage to come, unfortunately, in the days ahead. everyone in the east a frigid, cold morning. good news, this is as cold as you'll be for about the next two weeks. a big warm-up is underway this weekend.

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iran's former president rauf san johnnie died at the age of 82. he suffered a heert attack. he was an aide to leader of the 1979 revolution ayatollah khomeini and later served any other the nation's fourth president from 1989 through 1997. during which time he introduced several economic reforms known for his more moderate views along with his whit and cunning both in the political arena and in business and his influence felt in iranian affairs since before the in the 1revolution i until now. >> and rafsanjani following a long time. he could charitably be called

pragmatic. moderates considered him a loss but when he needed to about hard-liner he was a hard-liner as hard-liner is. right? >> it's funny, joe. i always thought of him, in my several visits to iran, as a symbol of the country's blockage. the aspiration for moderation but the inability to really break through to a moderate society. he always kept his deal with the hard-liners. might support the rahamis or reformers but never really left the camp of the way the regime is going to work. >> joining us from london, tehran bureau chief ali aruessi. what else can you tell us about raufr s rather s -- >> held on to power and influence all the way to the end. as you mentioned, he was a

wildly political survivor, a multi-millionaire mogul who remained amongst the ruling -- despite moderate reviews which he tempered depending on the mood in the country. iranian media reported he died of a heart attack last night, and there were large crowds of his supporters outside the hospital which showed that he still did have a lot of support in the country. you know, he had a mix of sly whit and a reputation for cunning moves both in politics and business, which earned him nicknames such as the kingmaker and the shark, not only for being like a shark, also for the lack of facial hair he had, which is a prerequisite of being a mullah in iran and his life touched every major iranian affair since the 1979 revolution and even before it. whether directly or through back-room deals, he was always there. he was seen as a steady and safe pair of hands during the

turbulent years following the overthrow of the u.s.-back eed shah, and his political fortunes changed when ak men dad came to power, criticized for embezzlement but aligned himself with the moderates and made a comeback and was very, very influential in getting rehanie re-elected. >> thank you very much. >> david ignatius, if i'm not mistaken, rafsanjani goes back so far in this story that we've all been following since 1979, i think it was rauf sfsanjani, resembling a key to iran and a bible --

>> why do you remember this thing? >> qantas in some respects, but goes back so far that he was in the middle of all that and he was the one that revealed that to the world. that's symbolic of the fact of what you said. we have always been searching for those moderates in iran, and we have never been able to find those. >> he was one of the founding fathers. he was a survivor. he was a person who -- would balance both ends against the middle to keep going. i think he did yearn, as many iranians do, for a more moderate country but never really willing to break the china to do it. coming up, cyber war. for sale, the latest report how private tern firms of helping governmenting do sophisticated world hacking. that and much more still ahead on "morning joe."

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our intelligence communities spend a lot of time and effort gathering a lot of strands and a lot of data. there are times where they're

very cautious and they say, we think this is what happened, but we're not certain. >> saying high confidence here? >> this time, they've got high confidence, and having seen some of the underlying sources and information that they're basing this on, i stand fully behind the report. >> the russians intended to meddle and they meddled. and it could be another country in the future. it could be another election where, you know, the alignments between republicans and democrats are different than they were this time, and who, a foreign country prefers, and that's why i hope that this does not continue to be viewed purely through a partisan lens. >> 31 past the hour. joining us now from washington, ranking member of the house lect committee on

intelligence, democrac congressman adam schiff of california. also with us in london editor and writer at "the interpreter" for the "new york times" max fischer and joining the table, contributor to "time" magazine, nbc political analyst and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments elise jordan who held down the fort last week every day. thank you so much. >> it was fun. thank you. >> appreciate it. >> adam, always great talk to you. >> thanks, joe. >> right now we want a little bit of clarification. we had david ignatius on and others how the unclassified report was a bit thin, others described it as odd. a lot of conclusions, not a lot of data to back it up. as david said, the real report comes later on this week when you guys look at it. is there a chance americans will have a better understanding of the evidence after you get the full report? the classified report? and how do you get that information out to us? >> well, i've had a chance to

review the full classified report, and i completely concur with what you just heard the president say, that is that the sourcing is very strong. the confidence is high, and it's high for good reason. i don't think that the pun lick's going to get much more this week when more of the members get the classified report because they won't be in a position to declassify that information, but i'm hoping that as congress investigates this, the intelligence committees will working with the intelligence community publish more for the public to see. but i do want people to understand that even the report that was put out by the administration i think it was very important to share as much as they could with the public. the russian intelligence agencies are going over every line, every period, every comma to figure out how do they know that? trying to reverse engineer what they have already to figure out what are our sources and methods. a real trade-off.

the more we share with the public, the more we share with the russians and better able they'll be to hide in future meddles in our future elections or the european elections coming up. >> max fischer a great point the congressman makes. you had tweeted though a lot of people were very concerned reaching out to you that this report was odd. things were contained in the report that just didn't seem to fit there that much and the dni report is so -- worried it will end up undermining facts already established by open-source methods, e.g., russian links. david ignatius expressed that concern. i think jeffrey goldberg to a lesser degree expressed that concern. so what -- what doll we we as public make of this unclassified report knowing full well, at the congressman said, some information, some sourcing we're never going to, and shouldn't, actually get to know about? >> well, i think that gets to what is so odd about this report, is that there is

actually a huge amount of information that is out in the public domain tying these hacks and the subsequent influence campaign to the russian government, and to the russian military intelligence agency. multiple independent firms, fireeye, threatconnect, crowd strike, put out reports you can go, look through initial phishing e-mail that went into the john podesta's information and none of us can figure out why it wasn't included and why instead the report included ancillary information about russia today that is not really relevant to making this case. so it concerns me. there's an extremely strong case to be made just on public domain information establishing this, and for whatever reason the dni decided not to make that unclassified report. >> elise? >> i'd be curious, max, if you think this report and the information that came out

strengthens incoming nsa director mike flynn's case that intelligence apparatus needs to be completely reformed? you know, this is kind of what he put forth in this 2010 afghanistan intelligence report, just saying so much of intelligence is worthless and then the dni comes out with this report that really doesn't add anything to the discussion. how do you see intelligence reform proceeding? >> right. well, so i think that's an interesting point, in that what we have with this report, we haven't seen the intelligence community fail in its actual primary job of supplying intelligence. i mean, it certainly sounds like the classified version includes all of the things that they've decided not to include and probably a lot more. what we've actually seen the intelligence suck sooelceed at public messaging and pushing out an incoming commander in chief who questions not just the intelligence community's findings but basic established

facts. that's a very different role that the ic is not accustomed to playing, hasn't in the past and is struggling. i don't think any of that should disrupt the incoming rationale intelligence community, but i think we will see them go down that path and that's what we're seeing the real challenge for the cia and other intelligence agencies is having a white house that is so actively hostile to the role they are supposed to play. they're really not ready for that, and as we can see, they still have a ways to go to get familiar with kind of how to fight that fight. >> congressman schiff, tell me what, given the seriousness of this incident, and the implications of it for american national security and our political process, what is it you'd like to see president-elect trump do when he becomes president of united states? in your ideal, dream scenario going forward, on this specific issue what would you call on him to do to take this as seriously

as it should be taken and live up to his responsibilities as president of the united states? >> well, it's a great question that i've wrestled with because i have a fundamentally different view of the threat that russia poses i think than we've heard from the president-elect. what i'd like to see with constraints of his interesting try to improve relations with russia, ask him say to russian something like following -- look, i've got congress breathing down my neck. they want to add new sanctions. they're on a completely different course than i am. you have to help me out. you want relief in ukraine, pull your feel out there, stop destabilizing the government, abide by the accords, in syria stop bombing civilians. you want to work on a counterterrorism campaign together, fine, but that means it's got to be counterterrorism. it can't be bombing the moderate opposition. i need you to know, putin, i'd like a better relationship, will show you respect, but here's where our interests lie, here's

where we could work together and where we have to fight you tooth and nail. >> max, let's finish up by talking about rafsanjani. a fascinating character. talking with david ignatius earlier, i think rafsanjani, it tell viewers how long he's been with us. i think rafsanjani revealed in 1986 bud mcfarland delivered a birthday cake in the shape of a key and diebel in an attempt to find moderates in iron we've nerve every been able to find. he was a bit of a moderate but also extraordinarily pragmatic. wasn't he? >> uh-huh. yeah, and that gets to, there's different versions of moderate. rafsanjani could be, as you were saying earlier a hard-liner's hard-liner but non-ideological or primarily interested in pursuing what he saw as the interests of iran, and there were times when that conflicted with the interests of the united states in ways that were really

problematic and times when it aligned up with it. the legacy of that kind of rafsanjani push i think is going to be really under threat within iran. they have elections coming this year and you'll see a lot of the hard-liners, more ideological and want to have, for domestic, external reasons, this kind of endless struggle against the west pushed to kind of reinstitute that from the days under ahmadinejad. >> let me ask quickly, adam. i'm sorry, adam. quickly, looks like we could have another showdown with iraq coming up with an incoming president who wants to tear up the iran deal or a major overhauling and looks like dangerous days ahead. >> they are. but here's what i would suggest that the president-elect do. not tear up the agreement. i they wouldish a big mistake, rather focus on pushing back

against iran's conventional malevolence in the region. work with the gulf allies to build a much stronger pushback to the iranian-backed militias, for example. the gulf nations spend a lot more on defense than iran does, but they get much less bang for the buck. put it in very expensive planes instead of people on the ground. and we ought to work with them to push back against that. that doesn't risk a re-ignition of a nuclear arms race in the region. >> all right. >> just hearing that -- alex is just new in right now? >> yeah. this on sunday. nbc confirm as u.s. navy destroyer fired multiple warning shots at four iranian ships, if happened sunday. >> there you go. >> it's happening. >> with that the "new york times" max fisher, thank you so much, and ranking member of the house select committee on intelligence, congressman adam schiff. thank you as well. >> thank you, guys. greatly appreciate it. still ahead this morning, cyber war for sale. the "new york times" takes us inside a shadowing global industry that's turned stealing e-mails into a powerful and

lucrative political weapon, and tomorrow on "morning joe," former director of the cia and nsa retired general michael hayden is our guest. we'll be right back. it's just a date. i can stay. i'm good. i won't be late

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. 24irs is the golden globes one of the few places left where america still honors the popular vote. but, of course, there's always the ballots for tonight's golden globes were carefully tabulated by ernst & young and putin. but, here we go. >> da-boom-boom. how did he do last night? >> he was g. i love him. >> a good political moment. he, politically -- political humor is not really his thing. doing something slightly different than he normally does on the air and some of the jokes landed. some didn't. >> oh, wow. >> and some -- see and the --

then the prompter failed. he handled the prompter failure a lot better than mariah carey did. put it that way. >> i have a hellish dilemma. >> dumb come on, joe. >> tonight, i can either watch the university of alabama play for its fifth national championship in eight years. >> i'm already -- >> that's the front-runner. on the other hand, something that's even better. >> what's that? >> at the council on foreign relations. >> hot. smoking! >> david rimic. >> ooh. >> interviews richard haass. >> well, i would like to see that. and richard will be -- on tomorrow. >> that's a dilemma. >> see, you know why -- >> david remnick i'm sure would love to see me. >> would love to see me, though. >> tivo one of those. >> i've got a special invitation from david remnick. >> can i tivo the haas/remnick conversation? >> i guess not. >> taping it. >> on demand? on comcast. >> streamed on demand.

>> great. well, i will watch that, and then watch alabama. >> i'm assuming that, tomorrow morning, you should be up all night knocking them out both -- >> well, watch that and -- >> we'll have highlights of both, tomorrow on "morning joe." >> and then -- tivo rim knick and ha rimnik and haas. >> david, i just tore his head off once and he got mad. >> before. twice is enough. >> twice is enough? >> life's too short. >> you will watch alabama first. >> only because you save the dessert for the end, do you not? >> how many times have i tore your head off. >> three or four times on the show. today's pretty good. >> docile. >> see? >> you seem a little mellow, or possibly medicated. i'm not sure. >> well -- >> heavily medicated. >> you got me. time for "business before the bell" with cnbc's sarah

eisner. fiat chrysler making a huge investment in u.s. car production? >> yeah. political pressure, guys, continues to weigh on this industry. new moves from some of these car companies. so on sunday fiat/chrysler announced through a u.s. arm investing a total of $1 billion to modernize midwestern plants in ohio and michigan, add 2,000 jobs in the u.s. remember, just a few days ago, its rival ford announced it's investing in a michigan plant instead of a mexican plant and all comes after president-elect donald trump piled on pressure through tweets to get manufacturing of cars in this country when they're going to sell to u.s. by contrast, general motors, mary barra, ceo, actually said that it's too hard to change any production plans. she said there's a lead time of two to four years. despite called out on twitter by trump, she doesn't have any plans to change production. the bottom line is, the detroit

auto show is going on right now. usually we talk about the new models. 40 of them set to debut, all talking about trump how tail de deal with political pressure and optimistic about corporate taxes and potentially improving consumer confidence. i wanted to mention news out of the retail world. the american mall continues to suffer. limited is closing all 250 of its stores. >> wow. >> at one point a dhin goes back to 1960s. at one point, 750 stores in this country. bought by private equity. continues to struggle. speaks, guys, to decline in mall traffic, and increase in online spending. just last week macy's said its closing 68 stores. sears closing 150 sears and comfo kmart stores, and now the limited. >> mika, i bet in college you did a lot of -- at the limited a lot.

>> college? >> high school. >> totally. eighth grade. that and spencer's gifts at the mall. >> i was going to say. thank god spencer's gifts is still strong with the farrah fawcett posters. >> yeah. up next, the "new york times" fascinating new cover story. cyber ware for sale. >> and did you like -- >> thought yucky. >> never could go too far into it. >> i would just shoplift from there. >> okay. >> did i -- >> what would you shoplift? >> i wouldn't want to say. >> okay. has anyone at this table ever shoplifted? >> he just admitted -- >> during the break, 30 rock. >> exactly. >> a quickie mart and -- >> it's the challenge. the thrill. just like a bic lighter now and then. drop it in the pocket. >> elise? >> no, no. >> okay. >> too much of a wimp. >> see if you can get away with it. you know? magazines at airports.

a you know. that kind of thing. >> lifesavers at the madeira school for sale. >> did you do that. really? >> hey, madeira, you better give them a donation. >> okay. i will do that. as one expert explains the same program you use to monitor your baby-sitter might be used by some foreign leaders to keep track of anyone they don't like. keep it right here on "morning joe." and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot. i replaced her windshield giving her more time for what matters most. tech: how'd ya do? player: we won! tech: nice! that's another safelite advantage. mom: thank you so much! (team sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week.

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very sorry. >> go to -- national security -- contributor writer for the "new york times" magazine. >> and mattiphius schwartz takes us inside the global industry of e-mail theft and its new use as a political weapon. matt what did you find out? >> well, let's see. so hacking into e-mails to win elections is not new. it's not expensive, and it's also very big business. >> really? >> how is it not new? >> i looked into a hack of an election in mexico, in 2014 when a governor apparently used software by a private italian company called hacking team to hack into the e-mail of an opposing party, and intimidate some worksers on the campaign, and it wasn't very expensive to do this. the software isn't very complicated and the way that the e-mail was hacked bears eerie

similarities to the way that the john podesta e-mail was hacked. a spear-fishes attack. linked clicked on went to fake websites that pulled everything out. it's not as exotic. you can be the russian government but don't have to be the russian government to pull something like this off. >> that's what i wanted to ask you. this weekend seems that both trump, reince priebus and other republicans have been saying, hey, this wasn't really a complicated maneuver. they just sent a junk e-mail and somebody opened it up, and suddenly everything was exposed. what was the level of complexity in this russian hack of the dnc? >> well, it seems -- i mean, it's clear that the e-mail was just one part of several attempts made against the dnc, and i don't think all of the details of all the attempts have been made. in terms of the e-mail attack, exactly right. it wasn't very complex and the

republicans have a point with respect to the spear fishi-fish attack. it isn't that expensive to set up a shop, putting malware on someone's machine. in italy they were doing this and selling it to governments around the world including the russian government and the government of sudan, designated by the u.s. as a sponsor of terrorism. there's a whole industry of people making money off it. >> elise jordan? >> hi. i'm curious. last week in julius assange's interview he claimed john podesta password was actually "password" to get into this gmail. gmail doesn't usually allow that simpl simple a passward. was that the root of it?

simple human error, repeating it over and over, different iterations and that's how it was successfully hacked? >> i don't know what john podesta's password wuas, but in the hacking leaks, long words of passwords to test against it. often what the spear-fishing do, a fake e-mail form appears to be one of the e-mails john podesta got. you want to talk about human error, i would look at podesta's i.t. person, whose job it was to keep the systems secure and who according to him it was a typographical error but said the spearfishing e-mail was legitimate when it was, in fact, illegitimate, and that's a pretty serious -- that is his job to make that call and he called it the wrong way. >> oh, boy. >> all right. mattithias shwartchwartz, thank >> come back.

i did hear wikileak it was not password. >> oh, no. julius assange is alive. >> really? i thought you were friends. >> so what did you learn today? >> it's great to have mika back. >> ah! >> come to a deep appreciation. >> want to punch him in the nose. >> a deep appreciation how much i missed mika. >> it's not 9:00. it's 8:55:25. >> i have been shocked and stunned. surrounded by shoplifters here. >> you know what you're doing tonight? what you learned. ole ole, roll tide, bought tough one. i will tell you. >> roll tide, roll remnick and roll haas. that does it for us today on "morning joe." stephanie ruhle picks up coverage. >>there. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning a power play. democrats accusing the gop of rushing kbt nominees through confirmation without being properly vetted. >> to rush six of them through, each, bam, bam, bam, without having their