more. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. red heat. this is "hardball." wow, good evening a big developing story a hot one involving donald trump with the russians. prepared for president-elect included information that circulated making damaging allegation with trump's deals with the russian, neither fbi verified u.s. agencies. source would not comment on the allegation themselves.

kept from washington. what is it that the russian have on donald trump? >> our sources are fot telling us. they are not discussing what the material is they are saying it's personally damaging information that presented in the briefing materials as a way of making sure that president-elect was aware it was out there. they are not saying fbi is not investigating this information or that's it's active or verified or proven, it's damage information gathered that the russian as aware of that passed on u.s. intelligence agencies and presented in the briefing materials. >> andrea, let me ask you about this. is it personal, financial or how can we describe it? >> it's unverified raw material that been leaked to the

president and president-elect. the underlying allegation have not been confirmed by u.s. intelligence. i have talk to the officials who have read the dose ya it's been floating around washington for number of weeks. it was raised oe bleakly at a number of hearings including today. it's not considered important enough or serious enough to be "under investigation by the fbi". >> if you gather information, you use it to influence that person. is that fair assumption here? >> that's our understanding. the reason it was passed on is because it was in the possession of the u.s. intelligence agencies and they want the president-elect to be aware of

it. and they are not sure of the significance of it. and/or whether it's true. it's something that was briefed to trump or presented in the briefing papers to trump and to congress. >> can you we if it was embarrassing to trump, this information. >> it was embarrassing and damaging but we do not know the details. >> thank you. we'll continue to follow the developments throughout the hour. today call it latest battle of the civil war. the man, donald trump wants to be our attorney. his attorney general. loretta lynch against face tough

grewings in -- gay rights and other issues. >> you know that i'm a man of my ward and can be trusted to to what i say i will do. you know that i reveefr the confusion that i'm committed to the rule of law and you know that i believe in fairness as impartiality and quality justice of the law. i have no belief and do not support the idea that muslims as a religious group should be denied admission into the united states. >> very different view of sessions. she explained why liberals nervous about the prospect of sessions as our attorney general. >> he voted against each of the three bipartisan immigration

bills. he voted against the dream act. senator sessions voted against the matthew she pardon and james bird hate crimes act. he said this, today i'm not sure women or people would difference sexual onation face that kind of discriminations. i don't see it. end quote. this senator, regretfully sees it. >> it was interrupted multiples time by men dressed in kkk sheets. 700 miles away in chicago president obama preparing to deliver last people as president of the united states. the address is not intended to

be a victory act. the white house release excerpts that chicago is where i learn -- demand it. for eight years, as your president the not my belief it's beating heart of our idea and bold experience in self-government. i'm joined by "washington post" columnist, great to have you on for the big stuff. that would be a block buster, the russians were gathering information. that they had been digging stuff on it. i would be worried if i were trump what this have. >> there seems to be a message from the russian and the intelligence officials to trump

this stuff is out there, you better be careful. >> let's hope it gets out. you don't want them holding on to anything that would embarrass the guy. >> that's called blackmail. >> extortion. we don't know enough to get into how bad it is. you want to comment on that. >> you would have to draw on the administration every everyone being examined for ties to russia. >> the -- by the way putin, i would not put anything passed him. he wouldn't trust his allies for a minute. he would like to keep them -- >> i would like to have this in my pocket. i want to make sure i have control over the guy. let's talk about the hearings. what did you make of the defense put forward senator sessions

about his past, 30 years ago, whatever of. >> he was categorical in saying the way i was portrayed back when i was up for judgeship that's not me. this is who i am. in terms what he said, i don't think you can find a lot of fault there. there are a couple of issues. first of all, to go from eric holder, the aggressive attorney general on civil rights issueses for a little while, and then to jefferson sessions -- >> i understand why you do it jefferson bolder guard sessions. >> you see the spanish of the. >> yes. >> in fairness, there's salient

issue, with the issue of voter suppression and that was touched in the hearing today. it was big issue for eric holder and loretta lynch. >> anyone who lived through that period he was not an sirt -- he was a passive person of that era. think about this, eric holder's stirser in law who had to get passed the door, she had to theess scored in by national guard. >> and -- >> the guy they brought in to jam the kids past. her brother-in-law is the attorney general. are we talking about going back

to pre60s. are we going back -- by the way, why we would he pick that kind of guy to be attorney general. >> he is rewarded a lot of his friends and a lot up for prime time positions. he did a good job at hitting back at the position. how much does it bring to the forefront what they are worried about if terms of the tenure that administration is going to take toward gender rights, gay rights, women rights. >> i will say this, we heard senator feinstein giving a laundry list of issues, some of these are issues she disagrees

with jeff sessions, maybe he has a right to -- >> he says we don't. he says guys are endangered. to be. >> to be fair, he said that quite sometime ago. he has not opinibeen an active there. >> he says gays don't face discriminations. >> here what he said what asked about voter id laws. let's watch. >> there's debate about it, courts are ruling on it now that is voter id whether or not this is improper restriction on voting that adversely impacts

disp disproportionally citizens. it doesn't appear to be that. i have said i think voter id laws properly drafted are okay. it would be my duty to study it in more depth. >> if you get the vote, you get to change things. >> it's personal to me. shelby knocked out that southern said had to seek approval from the justice department before they could enter -- a lot of states rushed to put in place very voter id laws in the north carolina case. the court found -- look at the record of that case, the court

found it was extresly targeted to keep african-american and latinos from voting. >> we have pennsylvania we have -- by the way when i say you don't like -- going to church in the buses and you will heading of off to the registration area, souls to the polls, when you say no more of that it's targeted. >> it's targeted. you have to look at the history of the what the case is saying. what the affirmative case for the voter fraud where people try willing to get polls who need the laws in place. they have been constantly challenged. for him to say publicly i thought was the -- that he does support voter id, that's a big

thing to say right now. >> there's a court record on it before they passed law, how many black voters versus white voters when they vote. >> the carval that went on white in the south who felt they were losing their power -- >> they were. >> all of that voting rights act was meant to the end all of that. >> all of that was one thing, keeping the francize to the elite. let's get positive now. i don't mind admitting because how you grew up -- barack obama was emotionally stirring.

>> i felt the same way. i wrote a column the day after the election in this building, and i cried through the entire writing of the column. it was very emotional for me. it would be fascinating. it's not as if he leaving early, this is end of this era. i hope it's a forward looking speech. he talked about his legacy, i hope it points toward the future. >> he talked about being -- the republicans are doing jumping jacks if they this tripled -- if gotten help from the reduction,

they would be stringing her up. >> one think i think is porn about tonight, he is not focused on his legacy, i think as he is trying to instill that hope and optimism to people. about how getting on legal school counsel, joining pta, joining the school board, be a voice of optimism, that's what he going to carry forward tonight. there's not going to be dry eyes tonight. a lot of people will be looking at that administration and focus on a lot of things he got done and a lot on the table to get down and what's going to happen when you junction ta possess it in front of jeff sessions today. >> you were good at explaining what it will be tonight. it's going to remind us how

great he was when he came in. the stuff that got to me it was so -- it was a little church, it was something else. we'll find out more about the russian connection what the reduction zp putin may have on donald trump. le putting in son-in-law who does have power in the west wing jared kushner. trump betting on no one calling him out on this. that's not going to happen here. we're going to call him out. that's ahead. we have "hardball" roundtable as we preview president obama's farewell address. this is "hardball" where the action is.

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tell me what the role you expect jared kushner to have your administration. >> who. >> the president-elect donald trump willfully ignore the anti-nepotism law. public official may not employee, advance or advocate for employment, or advance m in or to a civil position in agency he serving or exercising juds or control. jamie gor relic as gor relic told "new york times" i'm not saying there's no argument.

we have a better argument. initial title president and law. start with my concerns about this, this son-in-law has no much power, he gets to governor christy to be power to do that. he has the power to pick guys from israel he going to run mideast power out of the white house. i think this is important issue to talk about. let go to kat line clark. >> congress passed this anti-nepotism statute back in

'77, including sons-in-law. so we have a clear federal prohibition and we have president-elect trump trying to get away with violating this statute. >> i think, he wants to muscle through this. this is controversial and looks like it's breaking with the spirit of the law. he lucky there, fortunate to have her. she can make the case effectively, if you look at federal budget, the government you would think it would be under the jurisdiction of the law, it says no agencies can name somebody to it who is a relative. your thoughts about the politics of this, aaron. >> this is a great test case of the trump administration, trump tans transition team testing of

the limits of what they are are allowed to do. president-elect trump is found of saying, president can fot have a conflict of interest. this transition seem has confronted a number of conflicts of interests. there's idea kids are running the business which ethics have raised concerns about. this is them put the cart before the horse to see if anyone is go to stop them. >> he is clear, why is it so important to him to have jared kushner his 36-year-old son-in-law in the white house, this guy has a wide sway of authority coming his way? >> i think donald trump's value

is loyalty, and the loyalty -- >> does he oe the job in the white house to his son-in-law. >> i don't hi, he owes it to him but he wants to give it to him. certainly on issues of policy and on issues of politics. >> everybody would like to be surrounded by family in government that's why they passed the anti-nepotism law. that's why they passed these laws. >> sure, it's possible that he ultimately won't have a presidential title but i think what my article demonstrates is that the reality of the matter is that donald trump likes to take advise from people, he doesn't listen to anyone, he won't get hung up on who gets the title or who doesn't.

>> he met dik chain knee who took over the issue, it was a lie. intelligence people, he made it up and got out into war. in 1993 circuit court decision, work on health care task force. the the judge wrote. anti-nepotism defines agencies as -- that's that judges opinion. let go to professor clark on that. this have a right to pick anybody they want because the sweeping authority given to them in the law later on super imposed itself, says the president can pick anybody they want. what do you think of that is this.

>> jamie gor lick refer today 1993 decision by judge silver man and that recognized that congress recognizes spouse is different. but the presidential son-in-law is given a special stats under that statute. >> you're in the white house. that's where you are. you bring a brother-in-law or son-in-law, you bring the suppose in because theys supposed to be talking to you every night, they're part of your live. >> congress has recognized that a presidential spouse has ha a official duties not just ceremony duties. in that court decision in 1993 rk the court said presidential spouse is defact to employee.

>> let get back to the expert here, great piece in the new york magazine. talk about jared kushner he seems to be a hawk. he wants to the united states to move to jerusalem who knows what going to happen, all of asudden which we have never done before because trump is president and jared kushner is -- >> his grandparents were against the nacys and they have hawkish on israel. some people speculated that c b

kushner is a -- >> that's raises the question of his power, probably doesn't have a politician. trump did run and got a lot of votes and support on the argument we are getting too hawkish if you will, and ran against. i don't want to get involved in any more wars over there. moving the embassy can ignite trouble. everybody knows that. does he know it? >> professor clark, who has standing to sue the president if he makes this appointment? >> a court has indicated that no one has standing to challenge it. but i want to point out there isn't an office within the

executive branch to investigate it. it would be up to the office of investigation special to investigate it. it would be object to and raises a ruckus semi-ly. like last week and the gut office of congressional ethics. >> that was a good ruckus bus it stopped them in their tracks. they passed statute that stops them from doing it, you would think they would keep their eyes open for trump to do the same thing. thank you, claiongratelation on your article in the new york magazine. next as we get ready for the president's farewell address of barack obama.

plus the latest, the information u.s. intelligence shared with donald trump that contain damaging allegation about trump and dealing with the russians that the russian now hold. wow, you are watching "hardball" where the action is. how do you become america's #1? start by taking care of families for 70 years. earn the trust of 32 nfl teams. be there for america's toughest and help, when help is needed america's #1 isn't a status earned overnight. it's earned in every wash, and re-earned every day. tide, america's #1 detergent

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i'm raph. my name is anne. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up, because we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. back now to top story tonight, the information contain

damaging allegation about trump and dealings with russian, nbc ken is standing by. give us update on what the russian hold that maybe damaging to donald trump? >> we don't know a lieutenaot o information of what the information is. we know officials telling nbc news that president-elect trump and president obama was given two page allegation said to be damaging and embarrassing presented in the intelligence briefing about russian hacking and russian interference in the election. it dids not investigating them but it's kind of thing that was explosive that the president-elect no though it was out there and he had the material. >> was it conversation that --

how was the information gathered was it electronically picked up from the conversations. >> we don't have the information. thank you for coming on tonight. >> malcolm, i want to call -- what do you know to confirm. let's stick to what we can report. >> i find it interesting that they would add a two-page supplement to top secret sci and present it to the president of the united states. why would that be done? some of this reporting may come to david kor gan, they would add that tho ro tect their own sources and methods. they may have information out no the either that classified

that's goes right to individual agents in the field and would not want to release that. what they can do is release information that identical, parallel and scrub of that source material and put it into this report as uncorroborated. that's the only reason ki see why they would add this information to the high-level of briefing. >> let's talk to david kor gan who have i great respect for. what's in the average american voted for or against trump. what is concerning here to a reasonable person? >> what happened was counter intelligence operative official from another service outside of the united states had generated a bunch of memo during the summer, while doing research on donald trump who came to conclusion that russian mounted

five-year operation to co opt trump. these memos involved personal information. they talked about contabts between trump's inner circle. it was a wide variety of information from his own network of sources and that information he passed along to the fbi through the summer that information dozens pages of reports have been compressed to two page presented to donald trump and to barack obama. again the fbi says it haes not confirmed the information and the allegation within this material but this information that were troubling. i reported on this a week before the election without getting into the details because i didn't think it was fair and publish and post allegation about donald trump or anybody

else. this is something the fbi had for months and they felt the president-elect and the president obama needed to know about this what we remains unclear to what degree this material has been investigated by the fbi. >> just to get back to what you said, it sound like they cultivated him with saying good things about him but perhaps dug some stuff on him something to control him with. >> that was the -- one of the allegation in that's reports did say they gathered compromising material on donald trump during visits to moscow. whether that's true or not we don't know. either confirmed or denied it. >> that's the kgb trick to come pr come pro-ize people that come to

the country. >> that would have happened as matter of course ichlkts malcolm, your thoughts. >> it's interesting in my book, the plot to hack america, i wrote the same without david's source. just extrapolating the information -- not to cultivate him as an agent or spy or anything like that but to cultivate him as a friendly person to russia's goal. he adopted hair identifiology to a person extent. money, ideology, and ego. when we went to russia, he would have been under intense

surveillance. telephone, video, they would have had access to every word he said. they would have put him under full scale surveillance. they would have emens amount of data that would have care carried on after he left russian. >> he wasn't running for president back then. >> thank you, when you go to bed with dogs you get flees. that's a live picture out of chicago that's why president obama is delivering farewell address. coming up at 9:00 eastern. we'll be expecting to hear about the future tonight, this is "hardball" where the action is. that means you can take a universe of data - in your case literally - and turn it into medical discoveries,

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whether president obama delivers farewell address he will be tenth president to say good-bye to the people. our first president political parties threaten our unity steer clear of personal alliances. following the footsteps of former presidents. when he took office unemployment was under 10%. today a little over 4%. when he took office dow jones industrial average 6500, today near 20,000. you think republicans would be dancing in the street, one of.

health insurance 29 don't have it -- 29 million. four states marriage equality. community organizer if you will, become leaders. for me let's bring super around table. hosted by msnbc. dan rather, bob herbert, let's go across the room. what's the biggest story tonight, is it speech of the president going away or four-prong jeff sessions is having or. >> i think it's latter.

it is the pivot. it is a pivot to go from president obama who ej and i have a new book out, we both agree that the idea of perfecting the more union, as well as in his vision, you look at that. universal health care. it's encourage vision, no matter how divided we seem, we believe in the country. >> anyone you talk to him. i have interviewed tons of people who know him, he believes is the guiding principles the country was founded on, he believes in the experiment. you're going from that guy who believes in his core, in the american experiment in this more perfect union, he believes the

experiment has failed. >> it's going to be a war. >> now you have somebody who compromising that. >> what worth commenting on as you sit here. >> two things. russian play or may not have on donald trump whether it's true or on true a lot of damage has been done. because it raises new questions about who this man is, who come coming into the presidency. i would be over that like a hawk over a rabbit. >> where do you get that from, hawk over a rabbit. >> once again, we have peaceful transfer of power, and the american experiment and a

constitutional republican facing freedom and democracy and continuing ability to have peaceful transfer of the power at top, is the big story -- >> let me ask you, if donald trump run by 3 million vote would it have been peaceful? >> no. >> thank you. >> i think the russian story, the allegation, i think that's the big story, it advances the russian story we have been following day-by-day. >> is that because you were like us wonder about what putin is up to. he kgb top guy. he thinks in terms of manipulate people or kill them with information. >> the question becomes whether the president of the united states is come pro-miez in

making decision of the people of the united states or whether there's something holding him become from what are the best decision. that's one and this goes back to what joy was saying -- we're going to go through a real culture shock in this country now. these two presidents, one going out and one coming in, are so different. one in terms of behavior. obama is like this thoughtful, dignified, the epitome of what you think -- >> clean. can we say clean? because he is. there hasn't been a scandal in eight years. >> no scandals. so he's the epitome of how one thinks a president should behave. trump is the opposite. he's quite different. >> he's messy. >> we all know what trump is like. but then there's going to be the culture shock in terms of policies. so obama has been this moderately progressive president who came in under terrible

circumstances and i think has done a really good job, maybe not a perfect job, but a really good job over eight years and trump is going to try and turn all that around and i think the public is, one, going to be shocked by that and much of the public is not going to be happy. >> why is he doing it? i don't think he has ideology. is he just selling out to people like jeff sessions? he owes them votes? >> it's hard for me to get into donald trump's -- >> trump's not a right wing, i don't think, at all. >> my feeling is that he doesn't really even understand the major issues facing the country right now and i think he's clearly not qualified to be president. >> you don't think he's pro-life or anti-gay or any of those sentiments. he's just put together a coalition which requires that. >> >> i don't think donald trump has spent ten minutes thinking about any of the great issues of the day. >> social issues. >> i don't think he thinks about anything other than how to aggrandize and advance the persona of donald trump.

that's the only thing and all of his biographers are unanimous on it. he cares about one thing -- aggrandizing donald trump and causing the world to praise donald trump. >> i think that's right on. if you want to state it more gently, he's all about brand, the trump brand. almost nothing else matters. >> you don't include narcissistic rage in that? >> i would include narcissistic rage. remember, i'm a former network television anchor person. i know about narcissistic rages. [ laughter ] >> going after meryl streep, you have to wonder if that helps him. >> when donald trump's feet hit the ground in the morning, his distant guiding star and a way he wants to be, what obama has accomplished, obama, whether you like him, don't like him, however you feel about him, he's a candidate to be -- his portrait will be on currency or on a coin in the future because he was the first person of minority to be elected president

so that's assured. that's what trump wants. >> i think the jackie robinson motto was there, too, he had to be perfect. in an exclusive interview with lester holt, here's what he told lester. >> tonight you'll talk to the american people. is this a hard one? do you know what you'll say? >> i know what i'll say. i have to make sure i get through it properly. when you reflect back on eight years, for all the highs and lows, the one thing is that is a constant is the incredible dedication of the people who got you there. and who helped you do your job. everybody from the staff at the white house to the folks who make sure the airplane flies to supporters who would write me notes when things weren't going well to the people who would say that the work we did made a

difference. so i think that senseover gratitude that i feel for those folks, i just hope i'm able to express that. >> thermostat question. is he too cool or not hot enough? or that's the same question. on temperature, should he have been hotter as president? >> i think there were moments when he should have been hotter as president on issues rashdireg race, he couldn't. he was jackie robinson. >> not too cool and not too hard. in general you got the tone right. >> i wanted him a little hotter because i wanted him to push back more against the republicans and then when they were obstructing i wanted them to use the bully pulpit more. >> joy reid, thank you, as always. thank you, dan rather my hero and bob herbert who i read. when we return, let me finish the president who is leaving. you're watching "hardball" where the action is.

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let me finish with the president who is leaving. i was in the college field houses when barack obama moved across the country in 2007 and 2008 speaking of hope and change and i was moved by his words, emotionally moved. i've never apologized for it because what he sid was about our country and its greatness. what a person born here can achieve. why every person who has come here has done better than they

did before. that this america of ours is not just great but if land of greatness. our politics has held us back, the endless backbiting and stall games. that instead of one party being the watchdog of the other, each party spends its best efforts keeping the other party from getting anything done for fear it might gain credit. tonight leading up to the president's farewell address is a bit of when then senator barack obama said at the university of wisconsin on february 12, 2008. >> it's a game where democrats and republicans fail too come together year after year after year while another mother goes without health care for a sick child. that's why we've put -- we have to put an end to the divisions and distractions in washington so that we can unite this nation around a common purpose. around a higher purpose. it's a game where the only way for democrats to look tough on national security is by talking and acting and voting like

bush/mccain republicans while our troops are sent to fight tour after tour of duty in a war that they should never been authorized and should have never been waged. >> looking back and listening to those words i can see why i was thrilled. mr. president, thank you for having the courage to stand up for this country. that's ha"hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris sahayes stas right. now. president obama is set to deliver his farewell address to the nation from chicago on an explosive day news from the man who will succeed him. we'll talk about it when this special edition of "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, welcome to our special coverage this evening of president barack