-- deployed. they are all part of president obama's effort to reassure hai after dozens of claims emerged the past several months. the day comes a day after the singer left behind assets including $25 million in real estate and 67 gold bars. interesting. that does it for us on this thursday. "morning joe" starts right now. >> thank you, barack, for proving you're not a lame duck. but my very own silver fox. >> yeah. >> thank you, first lady

michelle obama for bringing a whole new meaning to the phrase the right to bear arms! yea! say what? >> come on. >> you are welcome! >> good morning. it is thursday, january 12th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. >> managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann. i will treat you balanced today. >> that's a promise. >> why are you so surprised? an associate editor of "the washington post" david ignatius. >> good morning. >> political commentator for abc news and npr, cokie roberts joins us this morning. >> yesterday morning, we said, wow, this is one of the busiest daze and we are going to have too much to talk about and about halfway through the day. >> wow. >> we talked to each other and said we need six hours for this

show. >> right. >> the drama, whether you're talking about donald trump's press conference or little marco who doesn't look so little any more. >> nice of you. >> going after tillerson. what a day on the hill, cokie. >> and a night. and a night. they are were there all night. >> oh, my gosh. we will try to break it down for you. we begin with the fractured relationship between donald trump and the indulges community. also the media. last night the director of national intelligence james clapper spoke with trump to allay the president-elect's concerns about the leaks to russia that they have damaging material on him. clapper said in a conversation about the statement, quote, i emphasized that this document is not a u.s. intelligence community product and i do not believe the leaks came from within the ic. the ic has not made any judgment that the information in this

document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. however, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible pictures of any matters that might affectionate security. that conversation came hours after trump's news conference where he openly wondered whether the u.s. intelligence community was responsible for the leaks. >> i want to thank a lot of the news organizations here today because they looked at that nonsense that was released by maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows, but maybe the intelligence agencies, which would be a tremendous blot on their record if they did that. a tremendous blot, because a thing like that should have never been written, it should never been had, and it should

certainly never than released. i think it was disgraceful, disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it's a disgrace. and i say that. and i say that. that is something nazi germany would have done and did do. i think it's a disgrace. that information that was false and fake and never happened got released to the public. >> for the last few weeks, trump has been dismayed by intelligence information getting to the press before they reach the president-elect. there was intelligence officials alleging that trump was not telling the truth about the scheduling of his meeting with high-level officials, something others in the community disputed. along with "the washington post" report that intercepts showed russian officials celebrating donald trump's victory. and nbc's report that the u.s. had identified russian linked hackers behind the leaks that went to wikileaks.

>> david ignatius, you could have seen this coming and we did see this coming early on. donald trump was very rough with the intel community and i think we have said repeatedly in a warning that when you're rough with the intel community, there are members of the intel community who are rough back and leaks come out of the cia and they usually get the best of their political enemies in the press, but it went to a completely different level yesterday. what can you tell us about james clapper deciding to make a phone call -- or, well, say the leaks were corrosive and try to get this back on the right track? >> clapper was genuinely upset, late yesterday, reflecting on the unusual remarks by trump when you have the president-elect refer to your

agencies, your colleagues as having used nazi-like tactics. that backs you up. i think they asked themselves what else could they have done that there was this report that was very widely circulated, it had been given to the fbi. there was some kind of investigation under way. should they not tell the president-elect anything about it? should they give him a summary? in the end, they decided they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't say something. i think what really upset clapper was the idea that they had deliberately leaked this so as to embarrass donald trump and i think the point of that statement was to say clapper was dismayed by the leak and it didn't come from his shop. i think they really looked hard to make sure that that was true. >> david, how -- if you are looking at this from the president-elect's point of view, you're going to get a briefing, but the week leading up to the briefing, there are leaks every day in the newspaper telling you

what the intel chiefs are going to tell trump. then you have the briefing. i think there are even leaks the morning of the briefing. and then immediately after the briefing, the leaks start up again and it gets ratcheted up. where are these leaks, best guess? where are thee leaks coming from? >> i know, because i cover this subject in a way that donald trump, who is the targeted of it, can't know where leaks do come from. it is very rare that intelligence agencies leak directly to journalists. they send their products to capitol hill as they are required to. they have to give them to the gang of eight, the top congressional leadership, sometimes a broader group. they have to send them downtown to the executive agencies required to do that. those are their customers. almost entirely, the leaks that end up having impact come through channels like that, not

from intelligence -- >> i'm sorry, i couldn't hear you. they were talking in my ear. the leaks come from where? >> the leaks tend to come from capitol hill, from executive agencies downtown. it's very rare that the intelligence agencies, themselves, will leak information directly to the press. you can say they may know when they send that intelligence report up to the hill that it's going to come out and they may be pleased but the notion that this is a deliberate process, a handoff, hey, ignatius, here is a hot document for you, it just doesn't happen that way. >> cokie roberts -- >> they would probably love for it to happen that way, david. it would be handy. >> my e-mail address is available at the end of the show. >> exactly. >> we all would wish for such gifts. but they don't come our way. very often. and certainly not from the intelligence community.

and, really, i don't know how this gets fixed. something has to happen for donald trump to feel more comfortable with the people who are there to inform him about what's going on around the world. if he doesn't believe them, i don't know where you go from there as a policymaker. >> the problem is, willie, this relationship started off, it was corrosive and corrosive is the word that clams clapper wrote last night, you know is in the leaks are creating a corrosive relationship. the relationship started off in a corrosive manner early on with donald trump and his incoming national security adviser both deeply skeptical of the intel community and said some things early on that caused real concerns for not only members of the intel community, but also most likely people that are going to be trying to represent donald trump in the intel community. >> yeah. we all know that the information intel agencies provide isn't always 100% accurate. they make mistakes.

god knows they make mistakes. we did go back and catalog that but it's different to question the information from questioning the motives which is what donald trump has done the last couple of months and the intent of leaking from the community, the intel community. he is saying basically not only are they occasionally incompetent, but they are often corrupt is what donald trump is saying, that these agencies that i need to work with and depend on are out to get me. that's something new. that's something totally different and that is something a little scary, actually, to have two incredibly powerful groups at odds with each other from the outset of his administration. >> at the end of the day, mike barnicle, everybody will tell you, the intel chiefs and the agencies they run are the commander in chief's best friend. they come to him and they give him the information. they are the ones that try to let them know what is going on in the world. these two sides have to sync up. >> look. yesterday was a new low.

a new low for all of this in this nation when you have the president-elect of the united states basically comparing intelligence professionals to nazis. that has taken this into another realm entirely. donald trump is going to get a fresh start here. >> first of all, how did it get there, do you think? >> well, it's been built up over the past five, six -- >> wait. just so we don't pretend this happened in a vacuum, what do you think was on the candidate's mind when at 11:00 in the morning -- >> that is the key word, candidate. he is no longer a candidate, joe but he behaves like a candidate. >> what do you think was in the president-elect's mind when he stepped in front of the podium from the night before leaking this out in the press all over cnn. i'm curious. we are sitting here pretending leak after leak after leak after leak after leak. >> you better get used to it. >> i agree with you. i completely agree with you but let's, again, do something that

has never done these days. let's put context on it. so now a new low. a new low for just donald trump? >> yes. >> and for nobody else? >> he's the president-elect, joe. >> i know. but is there anybody else that reached a new low or is it just donald trump that had these stories -- would you say it reached a new low that we spread around stories about what he did at the ritz in moscow with the most perverse story? again, let's put context to it. >> why -- okay. >> by the way, everything trump has said about -- >> let mike talk. >> -- trump has said about the intel community has been egregious and wrong. i agree with that. >> for several months the president-elect of the united states has had a level of paranoia about the intel community that some of it is well-deserved, no doubt about that. he has had leak after leak after leak about his campaign, about

his personal behavior and no doubt about that. he is going to a city that is a sieve of leaks. he had better get used to that. my larger point is he's going to get a fresh start. jim clapper is leaving january 20th. john brennan is leaving january 20th. donald trump is going to get his own cia director, his own director of national intelligence put in there. but for him to equate professionals who do their jobs in a way we don't know how well they do it, but they he do it, and they are prized individuals and most of them are very, very smart. for him to equate that to nazis is -- >> it is deeply offensive. i remember back when the agency was accused of being nazi-like and accused of being brown shirts and american soldiers were accused of being nazis and brown shirts back in '05, '06 by

united states senators ted kennedy and others and deeply offensive to me. when dump says it about our agency chiefs it's deeply offensive now. the agency, go back and look at eight years of transcripts, it's deeply offended me when people have taken pot shots yesterday. >> the context here is not to excuse anybody leaking or any of this stuff that appeared or anything that the media did about the hotel in the ritz carlton in moscow but the proper context here in october, 17 intelligence agencies said that vladimir putin had, and the russians, had interfered with an american election. that was the conclusion in october. from october until yesterday, donald trump cast doubt on the intelligence agencies and continued to praise vladimir putin. >> right. >> we said this was dangerous. a, he was wrong. but beyond being wrong, it was dangerous because, as we all predicted, this would happen if he kept slapping the intelligence agencies but this fight started not with the intel agencies attacking donald trump.

this fight started with them making a ruling, making an assessment of what happened -- in the course of the election and donald trump casting doubt. he cast doubt on them over and over and over again. he disparaged them on twitter. he disparaged them in other places and there is the real thing it is dumb and but the reality this is a fight he picked with them and wasn't until yesterday he finally grudgingly conceded i think the intelligence agencies are right and the russian officials hacked the dnc computer. >> this is what we have been saying here around the table and, again, i think said it a couple of months ago he was being foolish by picking a fight with the intel agencies because i think he even said, david ignatius, you want to pick an agency in washington to pick on, put the cia at the end of your

list if you're president of the united states. that's a bad place to start. it never ends up well. i think we all saw that yesterday. >> >> i'd stress, i don't think it's so much the cia will bite your back, this idea they will go out and get you with leaks. as i said, that is not quite the way the process happens. the problem really is the united states needs a good intelligence service and the president needs a good relationship with that intelligence service and that is been degraded in recent years. donald trump, more than most presidents, because he is new to the job, because he has ambitious ideas, needs a dynamic intelligence service tell him what is going on and tell him the secrets that really matter and help him to take action. he has to think these are now going to be, in a week, my people. how do i bill that right? and i'll bet you anything, clapper, who is a professional, been doing this 50 years, late

last night, that message went out late, decided i got to talk to the president-elect. i got to tell him -- i don't think we leaked this. and here is how dismayed i am as the person running our intelligence services. so i think that's a step back from the brink, from all of this crazy nazi talk and a step toward a better, more balanced relationship that, in the end, serves donald trump more than anybody. >> cokie? >> yeah. i agree with david completely. it's not that the cia is going to get you. it's that you need the cia. that's been true since world war ii and start of the s.o.s. this is an agency, even though there are a lot of people suspicious of it because it operates in secret and we hate secrets, it is absolutely essential to the formation of american policy, and to go into a presidency not trusting the intelligence communities and,

you know, there are 13 different intelligence agencies, that that is just a dangerous place to start a presidency, regardless what have they say about you. it's what they say about everybody else that you need to know. >> joe, there is one more important element to any leak which is a media organization willing to take it and amplify it. in this case the buzzfeed report is what we saw many months ago and didn't amplify because it was unsubstantiated. but whoever was leaking it found somebody who was willing to put it up and disseminate it widely and have it get picked up. a distinction that donald trump, he conflated cnn and buzzfeed yesterday. the cnn report if you read clapper's statement checks out pretty well in saying that donald trump, in fact, did see this information and trump said it himself at the press conference. any leak requires a media organization to disseminate it widely. >> and to know exactly -- go ahead. >> and the two-page addendum that summarize the buzz ded feed

stuff. >> with all of the disgusting stuff in it. >> which all of the disgusting stuff in it. david ignatius pointed out -- i'll ask you, david. is not the two-page addendum attached to it, isn't that part of the function of the analysts and whoever is dealing with the president of the united states? you want to show them everything that is out there? it's not saying it's fact or it's not true, untrue, or whatever. here is what is out there and what you have to be aware of. >> i think that a tricky question. >> yes. >> what the intelligence chiefs decided this is out there. in fact, this dossier compiled by a mi-6 former cia officer was under investigation by the fbi and they asked him themselves, don't i have a responsibility to share this with the president-elect? doesn't he need to know what is going on? you can second-guess that call but that is what they decided. i want to make one point which

is we learn something really interesting in this episode about the much talked about mainstream media and that is that the mainstream media, news organizations like mine, "the washington post", "the new york times" exercised enormous judgment about this dosy e ye . as trump himself said we made a judgment that we could not substantiate the allegations and we didn't go with him. you didn't hear a whisper about this dossier for weeks and months that journalists had it. i think this shows the role we want to plan where we exercise judgment about what is really true, we don't publish things unless we know them to be true, that still is important and it's still kind of works. so i hope viewers will take away -- mainstream media has become a kind of term of

derision and i understand why but exercise judgment the way most americans would want them to. >> when your paper, "the washington post" and "the new york times" and other papers went out, they went out with independently verified facts yesterday, talking about, again, the two-page addendum and did exactly what they had to do. i don't think, as we said yesterday, i don't think they had much of a choice. i do think, right now, the ball is in donald trump's court and he has had, we have seen, he's made positive statements about the intel community. he did it yesterday at the beginning of his press conference. should have stopped there. we were talking about remember the great statement he put out at the beginning of the week? great if you're in the intel community. we had, i think on a saturday morning, he has great respect for the intel -- and we should what should he do? he should have just gone out and golfed. he needs to give an unequivocal

and unam bigus statement praising the intel community and thanking james clapper for reaching out last night and using this as a reset, maybe james clapper and donald trump can get together and they can have a little button they can push even though they -- >> always worked in russia. >> always work well. but cokie, there can't be a tweet following a statement from the president-elect saying how much he trusts the intel community. it need to be trust the community, they are professionals, looking forward to working with them, period. >> well, i think both have to happen because he does communicate so much by tweet and i think that gets to the point that david was making which is such an important point. you know? we have taken it on the chin a lot this year in the mainstream media. as he said, there's some reason for that but this question of exercising judgment, you know, of having editors, of having

people whose job it is to make sure that what you're putting out is as true as you can possibly know it to be is something that has not had the respect that it should have. and a lot of it does have to do with tweets and with facebook and with all of that, things just popping up and being there. and without any mediation which the media does. >> exactly. >> and i think the president-elect needs to be a part of that sense of understanding that we -- there is a role to be played in mediation. >> there was that huge moment yesterday where he was screaming at the cnn reporter. and would not take a question. also, he brought a lawyer up on deck to talk about the company and how he is going to separate himself from the company, that some really didn't buy that

construct. we have not gotten do that as well. >> by the way, in the press conference, you know, we are talking all about this. this is the bright, shiny object. >> yes. >> big pharma stocks went down yesterday because of what ed negotiating for lower prices. there were about -- he named v.a. head. there was real news broke out yesterday. >> supreme court justice. >> we heard about a supreme court justice. >> exactly. >> and the business stuff which i think -- >> the business stuff is fascinating. >> the business stiff. a lot of news broke yesterday, but this, i think everybody wants this behind them. i think the intel community wants this behind them and i think trump's team wants this behind him. >> if you think about the perspective of an american adversary. if you're foe of the united states and see inexperienced president-elect arriving in office eight days from now at

war with his intelligence. >> can you imagine? >> that is a dream come true if you wish the united states ill. >> can you imagine leaders how happy they were yesterday in north korea, in russia, in iraq? >> yes, i can. >> in iran? >> yes. >> in syria? >> putin won. >> delightful from their point of view. >> they love it. here we are again by the end of donald trump's term if something is not done, north korea is going to be able to launch a nuclear weapon to seattle, portland, san francisco. >> all right. >> it's time -- >> on that lovely note. >> no. that's the reality. the president-elect needs to get lined up with his intel community. >> still ahead on "morning joe," rex tillerson had a tough day of testimony on capitol hill at the hands of marco rubio. later, our conversation with former presidential candidate, independent senator bernie sanders. plus, senators ted cruz and

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♪ welcome back, children, to word association game. today, the topic is the senate. specifically confirmation hearings. the word today, john heilemann, the word today is, are you ready? little. corey booker. word association. corey booker. >> impassioned. >> yes. >> impassioned. >> and? >> impassioned. >> and? >> maybe -- i kept waiting for -- >> t secret rd is calculating. >> yes. certainly cory booker's speech yesterday you can imagine maybe in 2020 that speech being a part of his presidential campaign launch. >> another phrase.

presidential launch. >> any other? >> he testified yesterday -- >> i have to ask this question -- >> in the confirmation session. >> has anybody seen as, obviously, calculated at this in a way that would have the other senators to drag him away? >> the content -- >> wrong venue. wrong time. >> important content. >> important content, but it was basically, you know, should have been given like two years from now as he launches his campaign for president. >> any way. >> i think he meant what ed but i think he was also -- >> i think there is some serious questions. >> getting his profile out there a little bit. >> all i can tell our friends at home is across the frutited plains there was a grown came up but very calculated and a lot of senators irked on the democratic

side and thought he was launch is his bid for the 2020 campaign. >> trump's choices for secretary of state and former ceo rex tillerson will not extend into a second day as expected. that news coming from foreign relations committee chair bob corker's spokesperson. despite a second day of hearings on the u.s. senate's website as of early this morning. it was a tense day for the oil executive much at the hand of republican senator marco rubio. >> is vladimir putin a war criminal? >> i would not yoos thuse that >> let me describe a phrase in aleppo and maybe help you reach that conclusion. >> i understand there is a body of record in the public of domain and i'm sure a body of record in the classified record of domain and in order to deal with a serious question like this, i would want to be -- >> pictures of -- >> totally informed before advising the president. >> it's never acceptable, you

would agree, for a military to specifically target civilians which is what happened there through the russian military and i find it discouraging, your inability to cite that, which i think is globally accepted. do you believe that vladimir putin and his cronies are responsible for ordering the murder of countless dissidents, journalists, and political opponents? >> i do not have sufficient information to make that claim. >> are you aware that people who oppose vladimir putin wind up dead all over the world, poisoned, shot in the back of the head, and do you think that was coincidental or quite pob possible or likely, as i believe, they were part of an effort to murder his political opponents? >> well, people who speak up for freedom in regimes that are oppressive are often a threat and these things happen to them. in terms of assigning specific responsibilities, i would have to have more information. i am not willing to make

conclusions on what is only publicly available. >> none of this is classified, mr. tillerson. these people are dead. in youopinion, is saudi arabia a human rights violator? >> saudi arabia certainly does not share the same values of america. i think the question is what is the pace of progress that should be expected for the kingdom of saudi arabia to advance rights to women and others in the country. >> as it currently stands, do you consider what they are doing a human rights violation? >> i would need to have greater information, senator, in order to make a true determination that have. >> you're not familiar with the state of affairs for people in saudi arabia what life is like for women? they can't drive. people are jailed and lashed. you are familiar with all of that? >> yes, senator, i'm familiar with all of that. >> so what more information would you need? >> in terms of when you designate someone or label someone, the question is that the most effective way to have

progress continue to be made in saudi arabia or any other country. >> that is a problem. that's a big problem. >> a huge problem. we have a lot more. david ignatius, let me go to you. i think a lot of people were surprised how badly and i'm going to say it, how badly rex tillerson did yesterday. not only in those line of questioning, but he also seemed ill-prepared when it came to questions about his business relationship. after that line of questioning, i'm hard-pressed to see how marco rubio and john mccain and lindsey graham actually support that nomination and how it survives, especially if he doesn't have day two to clean it up. >> they can't. >> well, i thought he came across as the engineer who has been running exxon. his answers were of that character. i thought rubio was trying to kind of push him into headline statements, putin is a war criminal, saudi arabia is a human rights violator on. the headlines that would

dominate his early days as secretary of state. and i think it's appropriate to say i want to look at the record and issue my own statements rather than respond to yours. i thought he got in a lot more trouble when he was talking about exxon's lobbying activities. he simply wasn't credible in saying he didn't know what lobbying exxon had done and, gosh, i could have been for it or against it. i thought that was almost embarrassing. what i learned about rex tillerson yesterday was, in addition to being extremely careful on these questions, he is a very knowledgeable person. i almost want to say diplomatic. my fears that he was coming in from an entirely different world would be ill-suited and ill-prepared to be secretary of state were reduced by his performance yesterday. >> so you actually were impressed by his performance yesterday? >> i thought he held steady to what he wanted to do, which was to keep his agenda open. it's important for a new secretary of state, as, let's

say, for a prospective supreme court justice not being pushed how he would vote on a particular days or how he would describe a particular country he has got to be negotiating with. i think that is sensible. that's what you want a good nominee to do. senators want to push for more clarity. i get that. but i think he is going to have to be effective, he has to learn to speak more openly when he's got positions and this idea to try to dodge the lobbying question, and he's got to, i think, make amends on that. >> cokie, i know you want to jump in but i feel he dodged a little bit on putin and russia. to say you need to check the record on all of this stuff and say nothing? come on! >> and climate change and all of that. the truth is, look. if you guys thought cory booker was cringe-inducing, marco rubio was too for his colleagues in the senate.

this is attention getting on his part. and my experience with these kind of hearings is, you know, a senator gets a lot of attention. he feels really good about it. then there is some kind of clarification that comes out and they fall in line. i think that is very likely to happen in this case. >> why did you think -- and here i am, of course, in the position that i'm always in, defending marco rubio. >> you go! >> you've been in the ring for lil' marco. >> i have. i have. why was it cringe-inducing for marco rubio to ask about vladimir putin's human rights record? >> why is that any less cringe-inducing than saying that voting rights need to be protected? i mean, i think there is -- you were talking about the united states senate, joe. >> yeah but one is doing it from

his position as a senator asking questions. the other is doing it from the witness chair. i suspect that most of senator booker's democratic colleagues would agree with that. >> well, do you think they felt that way about john lewis being there? >> no. john lewis is in the house. >> i just think that that is what these hearings are. these hearings tend to to be very little about the person who is being confirmed and very much about the members of the senate who are there asking questions and making statements. >> getting back to marco, though. i greatly respect your opinion. so i'm curious. >> how could you not answer those questions? >> what was cringe-inducing about it that? >> it's the same -- his questions, perfectly valid questions, i couldn't agree more. >> but he got no answer to them. >> i'm saying what his

colleagues' reactions are very similar. >> oh, okay. >> there he goes again running for president. >> got it. i get that. although the answers were really disturbing! that there was no answer. how do you have no answer? >> i thought we needed an answer to that question and i thought senator rubio did a good job prosecuting that question. we talked yesterday about how do we reconcile the difference between nominees like rex tillerson and donald trump on certain issues? on russia, we saw some of those differences yesterday when tillerson went farther than trump has ever gone talking about russia saying we should arm the ukrainians and sent a military presence when putin invaded crimea and went down the list but when asked by senator ma mendes of new jersey what does donald trump say when you say these things? tillerson say we have not spoken with russia. >> they have spoken about global warming and not russia, i find that very hard to believe.

>> yes. >> rex tillerson, you can tell the guy has been a ceo, like i said, engineers. i think any diplomat would say to marco rubio, senator, i understand your concerns about vladimir putin and what has happened in russia over the past 10, 15 years and i share those concerns too but i do nobody any good by destroying my relationship with the second largest nuclear power in the world in a senatorial hearing. i think everybody would accept that. but he could not bring those words to the hearing room. >> i think tillerson would have done himself good if he explained his views on russia with the same sort of nuance that he did later in the discussion about saudi arabia. he turned to rubio saying aren't they a human rights violator and women can't drive and what do you know about saudi arabia? and tillerson gave an

interesting conversation how saudi arabia is actually changing today and based on what i know, he had it right and he said don't make me say anything that will make that process of change more difficult. and i think that is what you want a secretary of state to state. >> true. >> alex is yelling we have to go to break. >> just a question. this is very quick. >> so we are not going to break. i love this. go ahead. >> how does marco rubio now vote for rex tillerson? >> i don't think you can. >> that is the key. the ultimate question -- the. >> he was interrogating donald trump pointing out to donald trump, donald, i'm still here. >> is rex tillerson going to get confirmed or not? under the circumstances this is your question. how does marco rubio vote for mex tillerson? >> that is cokie roberts knows washington better than anybody. >> she says it's theater. >> they always do figure out a way to come together at the end. well i sat down with the incoming secretary of state and i blah, blah, blah. >> there will be a private

question asked and assurances given and those kinds of things. at least that is the way things normally operate. now we are in a whole new world here so who knows. but that is the way things normally operate, somebody raises concerns is privately assured or there is some language written that gives assurances and then everybody falls in line. >> alex has taken it to a new level and got in my ear and said i'm begging you. >> final word. donald trump needs to understand. you call something lil' marco and what he doesn't understand yet, he does not understand this yet. lil' marco is going to have a chance to gut him time and time again over the next four years. the same thing with lindsey graham. had he a wonderful opportunity to say something nice about lindsey graham. he referenced 1% again. lindsey -- donald trump needs to

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i hadn't heard lindsey graham was going to do that. lindsey graham! i've been competing with him for a long time and he's going to crack that 1% barrier one day. i think lindsey graham is a nice guy, actually. i've heard he's a nice guy and i've been hearing it. >> i took it with humor. he is right, i never got over 1%. he won. i lost. i want to help him where i can. i look forward to helping him with his agenda where we find common ground and the campaign is over. let's move forward and see if we can make america great again. >> i love that guy!

how do you not love lindsey graham? i love that guy. you need to do your imitation. donald trump to the reporter. >> don't be rude. don't be rude! don't be rude! do don't be rude! your fake news. your fake news. don't be rude. >> let us have a question. >> don't be rude. you will not get a question. you will not get a question. don't be rude. you will not have a question. >> i would have just asked a question. >> my god. wow! >> by the way, when somebody says don't ask a question, you just keep asking the question. >> i hope so. >> and, by the way, if you're the next reporter asking the question, go thank you, mr. president! >> my point. my point. >> that is my point. >> it's a serious -- >> no, seriously. because everybody in that room has to come together and say, thank you for calling on me, but neither i nor anybody else in this press conference that has a shred of decentcy is going to ak

a question until you answer the question to my colleague. >> this is a new world. >> yes. >> i watched this and said this is the way the press conference in the east room and if this is the way it's going to be, the press has to figure out to be competitive in many ways but has to have solidarity in not letting donald trump do that. >> donald trump in that press conference had just confirmed the information of the cnn reporter. he said, yes, i saw the two-page addendum. >> cnn is reporting on independent sources and willie had heard it from a guy in otb who was -- >> always right. i knows everything. i don't know even know who he is. >> i know. we double source him because willie goes back and asks him twice. >> another loosey. >> is that how you do it, david ignatius, with your cia contacts? >> lindsey graham and ted cruz

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go right to cokie. >> i want to get some final thoughts from cokie on thoughts of the way it was and the day ahead. >> lots of confirmation hearings and lots of posturing on capitol hill. lots of information being amassed. we shouldn't forget the fact that they did start last night, the process of repealing obamacare. but, you know, i really think that the press conference does dominate the news because what with we saw is what we are about to see for the next four years. and in my opinion thought that there is going to be some different donald trump showing up in washington as the president is just wrong. this is the man that america voted for and this is what we are going to have as president and we all better just get used to it.

>> cokie, how does washington absorb that? you've seen washington absorb a lot of shocks. how does it absorb this? >> i think the way it always does, that everybody kind of figures out what his or her place is and tries to make the most of it. but i do think that the hardest thing for people to absorb is that they thought or many people thought that the actual conferring of the presidency on donald trump would bring in a more sober sided citizen and that is not going to be the case. and i think his supporters don't want it to be the case. >> i agree with that. cokie roberts, thank you so much. >> good to be with you, folks. >> thank you. that is a great insight. why does he tweet things that drive us and drive the media crazy? because his supporters love it. >> yeah. >> i think cokie is dead right. >> a fine balance. coming up, the a.p.'s julie

paste took a snapshot of the intimate crowd at trump tower yesterday and joins the conversation with halle jackson who pressed the president-elect on his tax returns. plus our conversation with senator bernie sanders and an exclusive joint interview with senators ted cruz and lindsey graham. tomorrow, senator al franken joins us on the set. we will be right back with more "morning joe." >> what a lineup.

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president-elect, since you are attacking our news organization. >> not you. your organization is terrible. >> you are attacking our news organization. >> your organization is terrible. sir. quiet, quiet. >> president-elect, can you say categorically, can you give us a question. >> don't be rude. >> can you give aus question? >> don't be rude. >> i'm not going to give you a question. >> all right. zip it! you can't even -- >> zip it! zip! >> hey. >> ladies and gentlemen of the jury, exhibit a. >> i can't -- >> when a problem comes along, you must zip it! zip it good! >> my lord. welcome to "morning joe"! >> you got to say heilemann's imitation is pretty good. >> it's okay. it wasn't that good. >> don't be rude! >> it's thursday, january 12th. bus on the set is managing editor of bloomberg politics who was very rude to someone coming on our set. >> would not --

>> join the conversation is jeffrey goldberg and white house correspondent for the associated press, julie pace who was there yesterday and also coming up, joe, you're going to have to zip it! >> why is that? >> when i tell you this block is over, it's over, because bernie sanders is coming up and i'm so excited about it. >> you came on the set and john heilemann wouldn't say hello and he wouldn't shake your hand. one of the worst examples of anti-semitism of anything on national television. >> i will defend my friend john heilemann from these charges. i have a dossier i would like to release at this point. >> it's like a stack of papers at trump's press conference yesterday. a manila folder. >> jeffrey, let's talk about what i think, right now, everybody was talking about the press conference. we have talked about the press conference. it was -- >> imitated the press conference? >> exactly.

right now, though, what we are going to be worried about two or three years from now, who is secretary of state and who is running foreign policy. david ignatius, we got david here. and sort of had a split decision on rex tillerson but he was impressed with him. some of us around the table didn't think he performed up to the level that we expected. what was your take? >> well, marco rubio did have some fun with him at his expense. but, no, this guy did his homework and he has views -- i mean, the thing that was striking. so much yesterday to worry about and think about. but the thing that was striking about me to the tillerson hearing was that he was taking much more traditional views than the guy who just hired him to be secretary of state on a whole range of issues. and i don't understand -- this is one of the many questions that looms. i don't understand how it's going to work, how these relationships within the white house are going to work. he is setting himself up to be a

sidelined secretary of state if trump and mike flynn and these people have this set of views and he has those sets of views. that is a general observation about the weirdness of the moment. >> a problem. >> were you concerned about his responses to marco rubio's questions. >> you mean on the rhetorical side? >> yeah. >> no, look. i mean, maybe this is the soft bigotry of low expectations at this point, but i thought he did very well and he, obviously, did his homework. maybe i'm being -- >> i got to say, right now -- >> what does ignatius thinks? whatever he thinks is what i'll think. is that okay, david? >> what did they call him a steaming pile of garbage? >> no, that is your thing. >> failing pile. i've never seen garbage succeed, though. >> seriously! >> crap. >> when it comes to -- >> crap is right. >> i think most of us would consider ourselves steaming piles of failing -- failing piles of garbage.

you and ignatius think he did well so i'll sit back and smile. david, tell us why you think tillerson fared much better than we did around the table? >> i think as jeff said, he laid out a fairly solid traditional view of the united states as a forward leaning partner in alliances, traditional american foreign policy. i thought marco rubio tried to catch him in some headlines. isn't putin a war criminal and isn't saush a human rights violator? i think he was right to avoid sticking labels on his foreign policy before he is actually secretary of state. there were some gaps that were obvious. a lot of stuff he doesn't know. but i want to identify myself with the editor from "the atlantic." >> here. look at this. right, heilemann? am i right? i ask you as an outsider. >> suck up.

>> it's more beltway journalist. >> i'm not even in the beltway right now. >> the question is marco rubio given his performance yesterday, actually willing to vote against rex tillerson? if you look at the numbers he is the swing vote. 11 republicans on the committee. 10 democrats. based on what he heard, the answers he received yesterday, as you said, in our last hour, how could he vote for rex tillerson? >> and you know what? he is just lil' marco doing his performances. >> vote for him. >> i bet he votes for him. >> he has performance and get unacceptable answers and votes for him? he is back to lil' again! sorry! now more on the fractured relationship between donald trump and the intelligence community. last night, the director of national intelligence james clapper spoke with trump to allay the president-elect's concerns about leaks to the media regarding a report that russia allegedly has damage be material on him. clapper said in a statement

about the conversation, quote. i emphasized that this document is not a u.s. intelligence community product and i do not believe the leaks came from within the ic. the ic has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. however, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible pictures of any matters that might affectionate security. that conversation came hours after trump's news conference where he openly wondered whether the u.s. intelligence community was responsible for the leaks. >> i want to thank a lot of the news organizations here today because they looked at that nonsense that was released by maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows, but maybe the intelligence agencies, which

would be a tremendous blot on their record if they did that. a tremendous blot, because a thing like that should have never been written, it should never been had, and it should certainly never have been released. i think it was disgraceful, disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it's a disgrace. and i say that. and i say that. that is something nazi germany would have done and did do. i think it's a disgrace. that information that was false and fake and never happened got released to the public. >> you know, it's kind of -- mika, i'm a little down right now. >> really? >> ignatius got the dossier and so did tiffany goldberg. >> who gave it to you? >> john heilemann. >> last night my 8-year-old son came in and said, dad, do you have a dossier?

no, he leaked it! everybody got it! >> how does one get the dossier? >> i don't want to characterize these. >> characterize? come on! >> listen to me. like i'm on a senate hearing. i'm not going to characterize the circumstances. i'm just going to say there is a long-term shopping effort going on in washington to get people to pay attention to this and then the problem comes when you start asking, you know, do you have any firsthand proof? do you have any prafs? videos? whatever. then it's always -- it always kind of melts away. >> "wall street journal" article last night that was i was preged talk reading talked to intel expert in britain. even if you got this ahead of the cia, you wouldn't believe it because it's too good to believe. secondly, he said there is no way the russians would ever turn over their secrets to an ex-british agent.

>> well, i mean, if this british agent is as good as people say he is, then maybe he is developing good sources and maybe he has information. but the whole thing is so -- i mean, this is just a big pile of unverified speculation. >> failing garbage. >> right now, it's at the level of failing garbage and maybe somebody will prove it to be true, but it's kind of insane that we are talking about it because it's just completely unverified. >> david ignatius, you agree? >> thank you so much. >> yeah. it had the feel from my first readings of it of kind of raw intelligence. source one says this, source two says that. i have to say if there is any truth to it, i would not want to be writing life insurance on the russians who are identified there as source one, source two, et cetera. the people who are in very compromising situations, in effect, whose identities were outed when that document was

published by buzzfeed. there's a term in intelligence world, a peddler, you know, who is out there drumming stuff, some of which is true and some of which saints. it's a nightmare to try to figure out which. i had a little bit of that feel about this document. >> hey, david, quickly, if i can is ask you. clapper said in his statement he felt an obligation to let the president-elect know that this report was out there. are they letting the president-elect and his staff know everything that is out there, even something as lurid and unprovable and unsubstantiated as that? >> willie, i think the thing that they did was to ask themselves, suppose we don't give him this document? suppose we don't make him aware that the fbi is looking at this dossier, which has been given to them by a u.s. senator, also it turns out had earlier been given to them by the british former intelligence officer, what if we don't tell trump that? i think they decided that it

just was appropriate in their briefing to make him aware of what was out on there. i'm sure there is some second-guess baggage that, but that was the intention was to make sure they weren't keeping anything from the man who in eight days will be president. >> isn't that the sort of thing, though, so explosive, jeffrey, that if you had a close relationship with the incoming president-elect, let's say he had not been attacking you and ultimately comparing you to nazis, isn't that sort of thing where you take him or an aide aside and say i just want you to know we have this information and can't put it on paper and can't verify it. >> just to help him in his defense if this leaks? >> what i'm saying is that i think david is right, you've got to let the president-elect know. but a lot of things you do not put on paper. >> right. >> you know that it's more than -- >> general speaking unorthodoxed

situation. this is not a usual thing to happen but if you're the president or incoming president, you would want somebody in the intelligence community so say, listen, by the way, a lot of people including on capitol hill and journalism are talking about this thing so you should know that it's there but that is very different than the dossier. >> yesterday, i will say when this first broke, i said this can't be true because of this -- what trump is about to say. i literally said -- >> wait. >> all of these gross things in the report. >> i was joking. >> here is trump against the lurid allegations in the dossier. >> in your hotel rooms, no matter where you go, you're going to probably have cameras. i'm not referring just to russia but i would certainly put them in that category. in those rooms you have cameras in the strangest places. cameras so small with modern technology. you can't see them and you don't know.

you better be careful or you'll be watching yourself on nightly television. i was in russia years ago with the miss universe contest which did very well. the moscow area. i told many people, be careful because you don't want to see yourself on television. cameras all over the place. does anyone really believe that story? i'm also very much of a germaphobe, by the way. >> he said it. >> why am i arguing with that? boy. if you had a camera of me in the hotel room and watching me get a cesar salad? >> that's gross. i hate watching people eat salad! let's bring in ken. >> what do you know about the president-elect was and was not briefed on? >> so, mika, we have a very good source of senior intelligence official who tells nbc news that trump was not actually briefed

orally on this dossier or this summary of this dossier, including his briefing papers, during the actual briefing on the russian hacking and that it was actually concluded with the larger written document that wasn't even dropped off at trump tower because there wasn't a classified room to leave the documents. it was delivered to his transition office in washington, d.c. it's interesting follow your discussion, i still don't think i understand why they needed to do a two-page smaerp of this in a highly classified compartmentalized document. a lot of ways you can present this information to president-elect donald trump. you can tell mike flynn. you're in secure rooms with him all the time. why did they summarize it they know it's going to the gang of eight leaders of congress and have it potentially leak. >> i totally agree with you. >> that is the question i've been asking for a couple of days. you know if that information goes to the gang of eight, it's

going to be all over the place and, sure enough, it was. there are a lot of meetings that you take people aside and you just talk to them. so it's interesting. so it was not briefed to him in the briefing and they didn't get the dossier in the briefing? is that correct? >> they brought the dossier to the briefing but didn't leave it there is our understanding. this intelligence reporting is hard. we have a very good source by i imagine it's kind of like trying to get information about vladimir putin's inner circle. only a handful of people that know and most of them are not talking. >> all right, thank you, ken dilanian. julie pace you asked a question about health care. hard to get anything in there yesterday. what did you get? >> i asked the president-elect about obamacare. i was trying to get specific about what his time line is for not just repeal, but also

replace. he wants to do these simultaneously and this is really difficult if this is the time line he is giving congressional republicans. the complexity of unraveling the current law and replacing with it something else given out he has not seen what is in a replacement pack. if he is talking about something in a matter of weeks, having a totally new law that is a steep climb for a congressional republicans and some of them were actually hoping he was going to be able to give them a bit more distance, which may be where he has to end up on this. gens ju >> i think mike pence made the time line much longer and makes a lot of sense. but, you know, over the past weeks, john heilemann, you've had not only donald trump but even paul ryan say we are going to repeal only when we have replacement there.

another example of trump, while temperamentally out there, you look at a lot of the selections and you look at where he is moving on policy. actually, there seems to be a bit of a moderating stance compared to what he did during the campaign and take that as jeffrey elud to, from what all of his people are saying, you know, no muslim ban, no wall, at least not in the way that it's perceived, no repeal without a replacement. >> when we discussed this on the show the other day i don't know if i would call that moderation or purely clear-eyed political self-interest. the risk for donald trump -- >> some of us consider both of those to be the same. >> they could be, yes. >> moderation is good politics. >> donald trump is running for re-election in four years. if they do not push for a obamacare replacement soon you're talking about a two, three, four-year process.

the risk to the entire health care system unraveling and the political costs that that could bring upon republicans who now will own this issue and potentially to donald trump himself if he is running for re-election four years from now and the health care market is in total disarray, that is bad news for him politically. so i think he sees that pretty clearly. >> julie pace, stay with us. david ignatius and jeffrey goldberg, thank you very, very much. >> david, thank you for your patience today. >> it's a pleasure. great conversation. >> we appreciate having you on, especially with goldberg. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> still ahead this morning -- >> talking about what he does in his hotel room! >> oh, god. more from donald trump's news conference, including the new questions of whether the president-elect is doing enough to separate himself from his business empire. plus, our conversation with bernie sanders as he prepares to hit the road again. we are going with him, joe. >> yeah, we are. >> i've invited myself. remember this? >> a good republican would

defend ted cruz after tonight. that ain't happening. ha ha! if you kill ted cruz on the floor of the senate, and the trial was in the senate, nobody could convict you. ha ha! >> oh, god! that is awful! >> senators lindsey graham and ted cruz have come a long way since the dog days of the 2016 campaign. that was rough. they join us together for an exclusive joint interview later this morning. >> what in the world are they talking about? >> i'm scared! >> we will be right back with much more "morning joe." need a k your keys in the car, geico's emergency roadside assistance is there 24/7. oh dear, i got a flat tire. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah? yeah i got it right here. someone help me!!! i have a flat tire!!!

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over the weekend, i was offered $2 billion to do a deal in dubai with a very, very amazing man. and i turned it down. i didn't have to turn it down because as you know, i have a no

conflict situation because i'm re president. as a president, i could run the trump organization, great, great company, and i could run the company. -- the country. i would do a very good job but i don't want to do that. these papers are all just a piece of the many, many companies that are being put into trust to be run by my two sons that i hope at the end of eight years, i'll come back and i'll say, oh, you did a good job. otherwise if they do a bad job, i'll say "you're fired." >> that was the end of the news conference, by the way. joining us from trump tower in new york city, nbc news correspondents halle jackson. let's start there. there was some interesting, i guess walls put in place between trump and his company, but others see them as completely really kind of invisible. >> maybe like swiss cheese and not an actual wall. we are talking about for example the head of the government and

independent agency task oversees these kinds of ethics concerns for the federal government. so trump laid out these steps he is going to take. the president-elect talked about what he wants to do, what he is going to be doing along with his lawyers to make sure he is xrating his business interests from his personal interests. so, for example, he is creating a trust. not a blind trust but a trust for his assets and relinquishing and hiring an adviser to sign off that could race personal conflict of interest questions and instituted a plan for no new foreign deals for the trump organization and domestic deals signed off from that adviser. outside experts are looking at this and saying this is not enough. this is just not meaningful. legally, it's fine, right? trump, himself makes the point, the president-elect makes the point that he he could run his business and be president. he doesn't have to any of this and he is correct. as you know the president is exempt from the federal conflict of interest laws. the problem is the appearance of

potential corruption. so the president-elect got into this discussion, got into, as you just played that sound bite he said i got a deal from a guy in dubai but i said no. to some folks underscore how authority this whole issue is for him. trump lawyers it's not realistic to fully divest as recommended by the office of governmental ethics and not ethical to create a blind trust and not what people think it is but again, not the view of some of these ethics expert. the president-elect could release his tax returns and settle a lot of these issues as to where his money is going and his assets are and he still is choosing not to do so. listen. will you release your tax returns to prove what you're saying about no deals in russia? >> i'm not releasing the tax returns as you know they are under audit. >> every president since the '70s has a required audit from the irs as president. sir --

>> the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters. >> do you think the american public is concerns? >> no, i don't think they care at all. i became president. >> reporter: so the president-elect unconcerned for now about releasing his tax returns. we note that a quinnipiac poll from october found 75% of the americans want the president-elect to release those returns including most republicans. >> thank you, hallie jackson. julie pace, your take? >> i think there is a difference between what you have to do as president sometimes and what you should do as president. it seems like there has been some backtracking actually on some of the initial outlines that trump, himself, laid out when he first started talking about what he is doing with the businesses, he said no new deals. now we hear it's no new foreign deals but his sons can still do domestic deals. that raises questions about potential conflicts of interest with cities and states that, obviously, he is going to be doing a lot of government business with. this idea that he will have no

conversations with his sons about the business, one, it's something that will be unverifiable for us. two, if you know anything about the trump family, this is not just something they do 9:00 to 5:00. this is part of the whole ethos of the trump family. this idea he will have no knowledge of the business dealings for the four or eight years that he is in office, i think, it seems a little unlikely. >> what -- what is the biggest danger for him? all of this? because it seems to me the conflict of interest come up. i know he says that he doesn't have to follow the ethical guidelines of everybody else, but aren't there some real legal traps in there for him? >> of course, there are. this is going to be a mess. >> the constitution of the united states and a clause in all likelihood on current path he is on is involved in litigation from the very first day he becomes president of the united states.

>> that's what i'm wondering. i'm wondering whether the advice he is giving is defining all of this too tightly and if, from day one, democrats aren't -- and some republicans, aren't going to start making these challenges from day one. >> state attorneys general. the chief ethics of the obama and bush administration believe he has done nothing to solve this problem and he is going to be in violation of the constitution the day he takes the oath of office and there will be lawsuits immediately challenging him on this question. >> julie is right. the idea that trump gets together with donald and eric is about the grandkids. they are going to talk about the family business, they just are. >> it's not even as though he won't be involved in day-to-day decision making he'll still have a window into how the organization is doing financially on an annual basis and when -- he'll be able to see that financial information. >> one other problem. the edgics adviser that is going to be appointed will be paid and

approved by donald trump. that person will know that his future relies on pleasing the boss. >> julie pace, thank you very much. our conversation with bernie sanders is next on "morning joe." and you're talking to youro doctor about your medication... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems,

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senator bernie sanders may not have won the white house, but his campaign is far from over. the former candidate is doubling down on the themes that powered his presidential run and he is taking that message on the road. yesterday, we spoke with the vermont senator about his efforts to organize at the local level, rebuild the democratic party really, something president obama suggests was sorely missing for democrats leading up to november. >> i, and i think many democrats throughout this country, understand that we need to rebuild the democratic party, we need to make it into a grassroots party, that we need to reach out to working people, to young people all over this country. and on sunday, there will be at least 40 rallies from maine to california telling the republicans that, no, you're not going to repeal the affordable care act and throw 30 million people off of health insurance and raise the cost of

prescription drugs for seniors and devastate medicaid. you're not going to do that and we will fight back and organize at the grassroots level. this is the beginning of what i hope will be an ongoing effort to create the democratic party into a grassroots organization. >> so, bernie, i'm certainly not -- i'm not trying to get into anything about hillary clinton or the campaign she ran or the campaign she didn't run, but barack obama, obviously, when he was having his farewell speech was talking about the importance of getting out there knocking on doors, getting people organized again. is that something that the democratic party has fallen short on over the past four to eight years, and is that why republicans have made such gains on all levels of the government? >> joe, i think the short answer is yes. absolutely. >> yeah. >> the democrats, you know, and we understand why, but is there a tremendous preoccupation with raising money and there has has

been a turning away from the communities and the grassroots of this country. i am happy to tell you that just the other day in california, for example, progressives who had been organized by the national nurses united and by our organizations are capturing a majority of the seats at the grassroots level of the democratic party. we are beginning to see that type of mobilization where people understand that real politics is door-to-door stops and talking to our neighbors and standing up and fighting the people who have little life over this country. >> i think bernie sanders might be taking a vacation right now but, instead, he is doing the work again. i think at some point along the way in the election you notice this in the media and you definitely saw with the democrats where they lost touch, and you almost wanted to say you need to get out there in america

and actually talk to people about what is bothering them. here we go. >> that is one of the things about -- we have talked before about certain things seemed rigged against you from the start, and i don't know that people ever got past that. some of your most powerful supporters on the ground. >> well, here is the point and i think mika put a finger on the issue. if you look at the poorest states in this country, poorest states where people have a minimum wage of $7.25 and people don't have any health insurance, why in god's name are those people electing right wing republicans who are funded and controlled by big money interests? so what our job s i'm going to do everything that i can to create a 50-state party you know? on sunday, i will be going along with chuck schumer to michigan and i'm going to be going to alabama and mississippi and we will do everything we can to

fight voter suppression and react to grassroots politics in this country. the truth is the very rich are becoming much richer. 4e million living in poverty and middle class declining. we have got to bring people together to create a government and an economy that works for all and i'm pledged to do everything that i can to make that happen. >> i would like to go on some of those trips. we will follow you, if you'll let us. >> oh, my god. we would love to have you. i'll tell you something else i think. i did an event with cnn yesterday and we are doing something with msnbc. we need to have town meetings, not just all of these talking heads, in all due respect, on television. go out. ask the mothers of this country whether they can afford $15,000 a year for child care. ask a low wage worker whether you can survive on nine bucks an hour. talk to some of the elderly people in this country who have nothing in the bank! as they face retirement. ask a disabled veteran if they are making it on $13,000 a year

social security. >> that is one of the great ironys of this year that -- i know we talked a good bit in the beginning, the rich are getting richer, the poorer are getting poorer, the middle class is getting squeezed. the working class is getting left behind. and in a year where your message, that message, all of that undeniable, that really took off in the primary process for you it seemed you had everything stacked against you. how could it be in 2016 that that year that began with your inspirational campaign ended up with the election of a billionaire whose cabinet actually we hear together, i don't know if the numbers are accurate or not, but i've read some stats that say his cabinet

appointees alone control more income personally than one-third of all americans. >> that's a very good question, joe. and i think honestly, it speaks to the failure of the democratic party. there was once a time in this country, fdr, harry truman working people were clear which party was on their side. which party was prepared to take on the big money interests. remember roosevelt talking about taking on the economic royalists. he was proud that they hated him. that is the kind of vision we need for the democratic party. if the billionaire class hates me or hates other progressives, we should be proud of that because we have got to start identifying with the working people who have seen their jobs go to china and mexico. the people who are making 10 bucks an hour and elderly people that can't afford prescription drugs. we have to bring those people together with the people who have so much trust today.

>> i totally agree with you and i supported your candidacy and i understand everything you're saying and i love what you're doing with these rallies. i also have to ask you, though, how important is it to reach out to the new administration and to develop relationships there and to try and figure out where there can be some alignment? is there any opportunity there that you see? >> i see some, sure. i don't think it makes sense to say, no, we are not going to work in any way in any form with the trump administration. trump has talked appropriately about a collapsing infrastructure. our roads, bridges, and water systems. if he is prepared to work with us on rebuilding america's crumbling infrastructure and creating millions of jobs and doing it in a way that doesn't privatize our infrastructure or give tax breaks to billionaires, yes, let's work together. obviously, trump has talked a lot about our failed trade policy, nafta and trade

relations with china. if he is prepared to work with us on a trade policy which works for the american worker and not just the ceo of large national corporations, let's work together on those areas. mika, this is what i will tell you. there cannot be any compromise on bigotry, trump's campaign has tried to divide us up. there can be no compromise there and there can be no compromise, in my view, on protecting american democracy, working against voter suppression that many republican governors are trying to bring about, and, in my view, there can't be any compromise on climate change, bringing forward a nominee for the epa mr. pruitt who does not believe in environmental protection is crazy, it is insane. climate change is real and it is one with of the great threats to our planet. we have to transform our energy system. >> scott pruitt is, we can say this, as just a matter of fact, he is out of the mainstream, not

only of what the overwhelming majority of science shows but also what most americans believe. how hard are you willing to fight to derail that nomination, considering all of the committees that you share that have a direct impact on the protection of america's environment, the world's environment? >> well, i don't think it's either or. i think we have to look at each nominee and, frankly, trump is a republican, we know that. i did not expect him to nominate progressives to be heads of major agencies. all right? but he did not. he could have appointed center right people but in many instances he appointed mr. pruitt right wing extremists or mrs. devos. i think as a mber of the environmental committeely do everything i can to oppose pruitt's nomination. >> i am concerned about the american wage. >> the american people overwhelmingly understand that a

$7.25 federal minimum wage is a stanks. the last election, as bad as it was, i believe it was four states voted to raise the minimum wage. republicans understand that. democrats understand that. we need to have a secretary of labor who is going to be on the side of working people, not just big business. and that is another example of a very bad appointment. >> if people want to get involved on sunday, how do they do it? >> go to bernie sanders.com. that is my website. they will find out the places in which rallies around the country are being held. >> all right. >> wait a minute. how is your wife doing? >> how is jane? >> she is great and she is a big fan of both of you. >> well, we are a big fan of hers. >> we would like her back on the show. she is the best. you need to read her story. if you haven't read her story, our viewers, she is nrvel. incredible. incredible.

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year or a year and a half. we are going to start building. mexico, in some form and many different forms, will reimburse us and reimburse us for the cost of the wall. that will it's a tax or whether it's a payment, probably less likely that it's a payment. but it will happen. >> that is president-elect donald trump yesterday on his border wall with mexico and who will pay for it. the chairman of the homeland security republican congressman of texas michael mccall. good to have with you us this morning. do you chair home land security. let's bottom line. this we heard so much rhetoric back and forth. will there be wl along the mexican border and will mexico pay for it? >> i think there will be a barrier. there will be a multilayer approach to this. with technology and aviation assets, fencing and the way to have mexico pay for it is to add a border security fee to visa

application fees, border crossings, possibly wire transfers back into mexico and central america. there are a lot of creative ways to do this. i think up front the american people are going to have to pay for border surge to take place and then repayment plan will be put in place. >> but the mexican government had said they're unwilling to pay in any form. it is realistic to tell the american people you may pay now but don't worry, you'll get the money back some day? >> look, i understand your point better than anybody. but i do think there are ways to put a border security fee on visa applications and things like. that i think when nafta is renegotiating with mexico, there will be a lot of creativity going on and particularly mexico's securing its southern border which it's failed to do. >> mike? >> congressman, can you give us your estimate, your assessment of the current relationship in the intelligence community

between the intelligence community and the president-elect and any suggestions you might have of the proving that relationship if you think it needs improving? >> i think it's a little tense, to be honest. i think mr. trump's sort of disbelief at the russians were behind these hacks, you know, i briefed -- had been briefed by the obama administration on this. and also briefed the trump administration on these tax being actually nation state from russia. having said that, i think the cia director, i can't think of a more levelheaded, common sense intelligent person who will be able to restore, if you will, the credibility of the intelligence community to the president-elect. >> mr. chairman, you had general kelly testifying a couple days ago that he was skeptical that a

wall, a physical structure, was what was needed actually to stem the flow of illegal immigrants. do you agree with him that it take a more wholistic approach? >> i do. i sthaed all along. i've been attacked for saying that when i was actually one of the nominees for the secretary position. i met with general kelly just yesterday. we talked about this very issue. a physical wall, physical fence will be put in place. but it's not a panacea. it's not going to solve the problem alone. he knows that from the military. he knows that the afghan pakistan border was not secured by a physical chinese wall but rather through aviation assets. you need 100% visibility from the sky to see the threats on the ground. so i think it tauz a combinatke

combination of things and not one simplistic answer to securing the border, particularly in texas, joe, where you have the rio grande river. what are you going to do there? you can't build a wall in the river. you can't block off land owners' rights to the river itself. and otherwise, you're seeding that territory to mexico. i don't think that will work very well. >> all right. thank you so much, chairman of the house home land security michael mccall. we greatly appreciate it. this morning a convoy carrying u.s. soldiers arrived to poland's bored we are germany as they built up nato's presence to send a message to russia. rex tillson faces grueling questions on how he sees moscow, president putin and the future of europe. plus, first on "morning joe," ted cruz and lindsey graham join us for a joint interview. stay with us. ♪ looking for clear answers for your retirement plan?

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is . good morning, it is thursday, january 12th. with us on set, mike barnicle, managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann. in washington, columnist -- why are you so surprised? associate editor of "the washington post" and political commentator for abc news and

npr, cokie roberts joins us this morning. glad to have you. >> you know, cokie, yesterday morning we said, wow this is one of the busiest days. we're going to have too much to talk about. and i got to say, about half way through the day we talked to each other and said we need six hours for this show. i mean the drama, whether you talk about donald trump's press coerence or littlearco who doesn't look so little anymore. >> that's nice of you. >> what a day on the hill, cokie. >> and a night. >> and a night. >> they were there all night. >> oh, my gosh. so we'll try and break it owl dawn for you. we'll begin though this morning with the fractured relationship between donald trump and the intelligence community. last night the director of national intelligence james clapper spoke with donald trump to allay the president-elect's concerns about leaks to the media regarding a report that russia allegedly has damaging material on him. clapper said in a statement

about the conversation "i emphasized that this document is not a u.s. intelligence community product and i do not believe the leaks came from within the ic. the ic has not made any judgement that the information in this document is reliable and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions. however, part of our obligation is to ensure that policymakers are provided with the fullest possible picture of any matters that might affect national security. that conversation came hours after trump's news conference where he openly wonldered whether the u.s. intelligence community was responsible for the leaks. >> i want to thank a lot of the news organizations here today because they looked at that nonsense that was released by maybe the intelligence agencies. who knows? but maybe the intelligence

agencies which would be a tremendous plot on their record if they in fact did that. a tremendous block. because a thing like that should have never been written. it should never have been had. it should certainly never have been released. i think it was disgraceful, disgraceful that intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it's a disgrace. and i say that and i say that and that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do. i think it's a disgrace. that information that was false and fake and never happened got released to the public. >> for las few weeks, donald trump has been smayed by intelligence information getting to the press before they reached the president-elect. there was intelligence officials alleging that donald trump was not telling the truth about the scheduling of his meeting with high level officials. something others in the

community disputed. along with the "washington post" report that intercept showed russian officials celebrating donald trump's victory. and nbc's report that the u.s. had identified russian linked actors behind the hacks that went to wikileaks. >> so david , you could have sen this coming early on. donald trump was very rough with the intel community. and i think we said repeatedly in a warning that when you're rough with the intel community, there are members of the intel community are -- who are rough back. and leaks come out of the cia. and they usually get best of their political enemies in the press. but it went to a completely different level yesterday. what can you tell us about james clapper deciding to make a phone ca ca call? let's say the leaks were

corrosive and try to get this back on the right track? >> joe clapper was genuinely upset late yesterday reflecting on these unusual remarks by trump when you have president-elect refer to your agencies, your colleagues as having used nazi like tactics. that backs you up. i think they asked themselves what koels thelse could they ha this report that was widely circulated and given to the fbi. there was some kind of investigation underway. should they not tell the president-elect anything about it? should they give him a summary? in the end, they decided they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't say something. i think what really upset clapper was the idea that they had deliberately leaked this so as to embarrass donald trump. and the point that -- of that statement was say clapper was dismayed by the leak and it didn't come from his shop. i think they really look hard to make sure that that was true.

>> david, so how -- if you are looking at this from another point of view, the leak leading up to the briefing, there are leaks every day in the newspaper telling you what the intel chiefs are going to tell donald trump. then you have the briefing. i think there are even leaks the morning of the briefing. and then immediately after the briefing, the leaks start up again and it gets ratcheted up. are where are these leaks, best guess? where are these leaks coming from? >> the leaks tend to come from capitol hill, from executive agencies downtown. it's very rare that a intelligence agencies themselves will leak information directly to the press. you can say they may know when they send that intelligence report up to the hill that it's going to come out. and they may be pleased. but the notion that this is a deliberate process, a handoff,

hey, here's a hot document for you, it just doesn't happen that way. >> cokie roberts, so -- >> david, i would love for it to happen that way. would it be so handy. >> my e-mail address is available at the end of the show. >> right. >> exactly. >> we all would wish for such gifts but they don't come our way very often. and certainly not from the intelligence community. and really, i don't know how this gets fixed. something has to happen for donald trump to feel more comfortable with the people who were there to inform him about what's going on around the world. if he doesn't believe them, i don't know where you go from there as a policymaker. >> when the problem is, willie, this relationship started off, it was corrosive. corrosive is the word that james clapper wrote last night. you know, the leaks are creating

a corrosive relationship, the relationship started off in a corrosive manner early on with donald trump and his incoming national security adviser. both deeply skeptical. it caused real concerns for not only members of the intelligence community and people that are going to be trying to represent donald trump in the intelligence community. >> yeah. we all know that the information intel agencies provide isn't always 100% accurate. they make mistakes. god knows they make mistakes. we can go back and catalog that. it's questioning the motives which is what donald trump has done and the intent of leaking from the community. they're often corrupt is what donald trump is saying. these agencies that i need to work with and depend on are out to get me.

it's two incredibly powerful groups at odds with each other from the out jet of hset of his administration. everybody will tell you, mike barnicle, the intel chiefs and the agency thez run are the commander in chiefs best friend. they come to them. they give them the information. these two sides have to sifrpg have to cync up. when you have the president-elect of the united states basically comparing intelligence professionals to nazis. but that has taken this into another realm entirely. first of all, how did it get there, you think? >> well, i think it's been built up over past.

>> what do you think was in the president-elect's mind when he stepped in front of the podium? >> i think -- >> i think -- bleeding this out into the press all over cnn? i'm just curious. we're sitting here pretending a leak after leak after leak after leak after leak. so i better get used it to. i completely agree with you. but let's again do something that's never done these days. let's put context on it. >> just for donald trump. >> and for nobody else? >> he's the president-elect, joe. >> but is there anybody else that reached a new low? is it just donald trump that had these stories? would you say that we spread around stories about what he did at the ritz in moscow with the

most perverse story? >> why do you -- let's go -- >> by the way, everything trump has said about -- >> okay. let mike talk. >> everything he said is egregious and wrong. i agree with that. >> mike? >> for several months the president-electst united states had a level of paranoia about the intel community that some of it is well deserved. there is no doubt about that. he has had leak after leak after leak about his campaign, about his personal behavior. there's no doubt about that. he is going to a city that is a sieve of leaks. he had better get used to that. my larger point is he's going to get a fresh start. jim clapper is leaving january 20th. john brennan is leaving january 20th. donald trump is going to get his own cia director, his own director of national intelligence put in there. but for him to equate professionals who do their jobs in a way we don't know how well

they do it, but they do it. and they're prized individuals. they're very, very smart most of them. for him to equate that to nazis is just -- >> it's deeply offensive. it is deeply offensive. i remember back when the agency was accused of being nazi like and accused of being brown shirts and american soldiers were accused of being nazis and brown shirts back in '05-'06 by united states senators like ted kennedy and others, it was deeply offensive to me. when donald trump says it sh it's deeply offensive. can you look back at eight years of transcripts. it's deeply offend med me. >> use this for context. the context here, this is not to excuse anybody leaking or any of this stuff that appeared or anything that the media did about the hotel and the ritz carlton in moscow. the proper context here is that

in october 17 intelligence agencies said putin and the russians had interfeared with an american election. that was the conclusion in october. from october until yesterday, donald trump cast doubt on the intelligence agencies and continued to praise putin. >> right. >> we said this was dangerous. a, he was wrong. beyond being wrong, it was dangerous because as we predicted, this would happen if he kept slapping the intelligence agencies. but this fight started not with the intel agencies attacking donald trump. this fight started with them making a ruling, making an assess ment of what happened over the course of the election and trump casting doubt. let me finish. this he cast doubt on them over and over and over again. >> right. >> he disparaged them on twitter and other places and forgetting the real politic thing of that is just dumb because they're going to take it out on him. the reality this is a fight he picked with them. >> right. >> it wasn't until yesterday

that he finally, grudgingly conceded, yeah, i think russia -- the intelligence agencies are right, russia did hack the dnc computers. that's the context. >> that's what we've been saying here around the table. i think said it a couple months ago that he was being foolish by picking a fight with the intel agencies because i think they said if you want to pick an agency iwashington to pick on, like, put the cia at the end of your list if you're president of the united states. that's a bad place to start. it never ends up well. and i think we all saw that yesterday. >> yeah. i'd stress i don't think it's so much that the cia is going to bite you back. there's this idea that they'll go out and get you with leaks. that's not quite the way the process happens. the problem really is that the united states needs a good intelligence service. and the president needs a good relationship with that

intelligence service. and that's been degraded in recent years. donald trump more than most presidents because he's new to the job, because he has ambitious ideas, needs a dynamic intelligence service that will tell them what's going on, tell them the secrets that really matter and will help him to take action. he's got think these are now going to be in a week my people. how do i build that right? >> still ahead, rex tillerson falls under heavy questioning over russia. some say it was a good performance by marco rubio. not cokie. did it cost the key republican supporter? and later sh senators richard bloom enthat will, ted cruz and lindsey graham all sneak away from the senate floor to join us for interviews. >> lindsey said make america great again. do you think we give that to ted cruz, too? >> oh, my god. we're going to find out. we'll be right back.

i never lobbied against sanctions, personally. >> the company you directed did. >> to my knowledge, exxon never directly lobbied against sanctions, not to my knowledge. >> i think you called me during this time that your concern with the sanctions that were in place relative to iran were not that they were put if place but that the europeans had put them in a way that was different and it caused adverse -- an adverse situation for u.s. business relative to european businesses. is that correct? >> that was with respect to the sanctions for russia, that's correct. >> i have four different lobbying reports totaling millions of dollars as required by the lobbying disclosure act

that lists exxon mobil's lobbying activities on four specific pieces of legislation authorizing sanctions. my understanding is that when you employ lobbyists who submit lobbying forms under the law, you are taking a position. is that not correct? >> if the form clearly indicates whether we were -- i don't know -- i haven't seen the form you're holding in your hand. i don't know if it indicates whether we're lobbying for the sanctions or against the sanctions. >> i know you weren't lobbying for the sanctions. >> confirmation hearings for president-elect donald trump's choice for secretary of state. former exxon mobil ceo rex tillerson will not extend into a second day as expected. that news coming from foreign relations committee chair bob corker's spokesperson despite a second day of hearings still on the schedule at the u.s. senate's website as of early this morning. it was a tense day for the oil executive. much of the hands at republican

senator marco rubio. >> is havladimir putin a war he? >> i wouldn't use that term. >> i understand there say body of record in the public domain. i'm sure will is a bod yif record in the classified domain. and i think in order to deal with a serious question like this -- >> mr. tillerson, tattack is in the public discretion. you would never tell them to specifically target civilians which is what happened there in the military. i find it discouraging for you to cite that when i think is globally accepted. do you believe that vladimir putin and his cronies are responsible for ordering the murder of countless disdenlts, journalists and political owe poen snents. >> i do not have sufficient information to make that claim.

>> are you aware that people who oppose putin wind up dead all over the world, poisoned, shot in the back of the head and you think that was coincidental or do you that i is quite possible or likely, as i believe, that they were part of an effort to murder his political opponents? >> well, people who speak up for freedom in regimes that are repressi are often at threat and these things happen to them. in terms of assigning specific responsibilities, i would have to have more information. i'm not willing to make conclusions on what is only publicly available or have been publicly reported. >> none of this is classified. these people are dead. in your opinion, is saudi arabia a human rights violator? >> saudi arabia certainly does not share the same values of america. i think the question is what the pace of progress that should be expected for the kingdom of saudi arabia to advance rights to women and others in the

country. >> as it currently stands, do you consider what they're doing to be human rights violations? >> i would have to have greater information, senator, in order to make a true determination of that. >> you're not familiar with the state of affairs for people in saudi arabia, what life is like for women. they can't drive. people are jailed and lashed. are you familiar with all of that? >> yes, senator, i'm familiar with all of. that. >> so what more information do you need? >> in terms of when you designate someone or label someone, the xwe is that the most effective way to have progress continue to be made in saudi arabia, or any other country? >> david, let me go you to. i think a lot of people were surprised how badly and i'm going to say it, how badly rex tillerson did yesterday. not only in those line of questioning but he also seemed ill prepared when it came to questions about his business relationship. of that liven questioning, i'm hard pressed to see how marco rubio, john mccain and lindsey graham support that nomination and how it survives, especially

if he doesn't have day two to clean it up. >> they can't. >> well, i thought he came across as the engineer who has been running exxon. his answers were of that character. i thought rubio is trying to kind of push him into headline statemen statements. putin is a war criminal, saudi arabia is a civil rights violator, the headlines that would dominate the early days of secretary of state. i think it's appropriate to say i want to look at the record and issue my own statements rather than respond to yours. i thought he got in a lot more trouble when he was talking about exxon's lobbying activities. he simply wasn't credible in saying he didn't know what lobbying exxon had done and gosh i could have been for it or against it and if that was really almost an embarrassing. what i learned about rex tillerson yesterday was in addition to being extremely

careful on these questions, he is a very knowledgeable person. i almost want to say diplomatic. and my fear is that he was coming in from an entirely different world and would be not suited to be secretary of state and were reduced by his performance yesterday. >> coming up, another huge day on capitol hill with big implications for the trump administration. we'll have wall to wall coverage in just a bit. standing by, senator ted cruz and lindsey graham with everything going on on capitol hill. we'll talk to them about their joint new project. what was that sound? >> that was the sound of them together on our show. ♪ looking for clear answers for your retirement plan? start here. or here.

even here. and definitely here. at fidelity, we're available 24/7 to make retirement planning simpler. we let you know where you stand, so when it comes to your retirement plan, you'll always be absolutely...clear. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand.

♪ time to think of your future my advice for looking get your beauty sleep. and use aveeno® absolutely ageless® night cream with active naturals® blackberry complex. younger looking skin can start today. absolutely ageless® from aveeno®. rex tillerson put exxon's interests before america's.. i'm not here to represent the us government's interest. instead, tillerson sided with putin. with billions in russian oil deals... he opposed us sanctions on russia... ...for war crimes forced to pay hundreds of millions for toxic pollution... ...putting profits ahead of our kid's health. tell your senators to reject rex tillerson. and protect american interests not corporate interests.

president putin and russia put out a statement today that this fake news was indeed fake news. they said it totally never happened. now somebody would say oh, of course he's going to say. that i respected the fact that he said that. and i -- i'll be honest. if he did have something, they would have released it and glad to release it. i think frankly had they broken into the republican national committee, i think they would have released it just like they would have about hillary and the horrible things that her people like mr. podesta said about her. what he said about her was

horrible. i don't know that i'm going to get along with putin, but there's a good chance i won't. but i hope doichlt if i don't, do you honestly believe that hillary would be tougher on putin than me? does anybody this room really believe that? give me a break. >> all right. it's time to bring in ted cruz of texas and senator linldcy grah lindsey graham of south carolina. wow, okay. make america great again, baby! i'll tell what you, if i can hear lindsey graham say make america great again yesterday with a smile on his face, anything is possible. >> the world upside down. >> don't apologize to ted for saying he should be killed on the senate floor. >> at least we're not on the senate floor now. >> ted cruz, you are a pop

culture specialist, what would bill murray's character in "ghost busters" be sayin at the sight of you two together >> i think we cross the streams and the marshmallow man is coming out any time soon. zbh dogs and cats living together. let me ask you guys really quickly. start with you, linldcy because, ted rs you introduced rex tillerson. were you concerned, lindsey about rex tillerson's nonanswers to marco rubio's line of questioning? >> yes. i thought marco did a really good job. mr. tillerson is very accomplished guy, but when it comes to russia, i want more clarity. i think war crimes were committed under putin's control and regime. and, you know, we'll if he can clean up his answers. but it's not about his qualifications as much as it is about how he views russia and we'll see what happens. >> let me ask you about that. you introduced rex tiller son. tell us why you did, what you know about the guy. and then same question to you, were you concerned about his

nonanswers to marco rubio's questions on russia? >> well, listen, the purpose of the hearing is to flush out a nominee's views and experience and vision. i introduced rex tillerson. he's a texan. he's an incredible business leader from my home state. i think this is a really challenging time. i think the foreign policy world is a mess after eight years of obama. and we need a serious leader. and if there is one thing rex tiller son, is he's a serious man with experience running a massive global company, negotiating all over the world and i hope and believe that he is going to be able to help change us from the direction. i mean right now our friends don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. we have to change. that i hope and believe we're going. to. >> i'm wonldering then why lindsey graham then why would it be sorry to say i'm concerned that war crimes were committed? >> i think number one, you don't want to go into the job and name one of the leaders of t world

a war criminal. here's the problem, you got to deal with russia as it is. and the bottom line is i think his nomination is salvagable from my point of view. i think he probably is not going to get a lot of democratic support for the other answers he gave. he said russia did it. that made me feel good about hacking into our elections. he understands the utility of sanctions. he was reluctant to make a commitment about what he would do. i get that to a point. but he should not go out of the park. he should have turned to marco and everybody on the kpt and say i see what they did in aleppo, i know what they did in aleppo. it is wrong and time for russia to pay a price across the board not only for hacking into our election but for destabilizing the world. but at the end of the day, trump is the guy, not tillerson. i think tillerson is a very qualified guy, but want to see more strength and clarity when it comes to russia and the moral clarity that mark wroe is talking about. >> senator cruz, why is there not a second day of hearings so

we can flush out even more? >> that's a decision for the chairman and for the committee. i knows way visiting with a number of the membersst committee on the senate floor last night. i think the sense is they answered the questions they had gone a lot of rounds and felt like the questions were answered. and now the committee has a chance tow val wait what they heard. they can follow up as they often do bhor questions in writing. and then they're going to make their decisions and then the whole senate will make their decision. >> so it's willie geist. do you agree good senator graham and senator rubio yesterday that putin is i fact a war criminal? >> look, i've said many, many times i think that putin is a kbb thug. his pattern for his entire time in office has been to use brute force to hold on to power. i think he committed an act of war by invading ukraine. and i think much of his aggressiveness has been caused by obama's weakness. i think weakness is provocative and what we've seen across the globe is that our enemies from russia to iran to north korea have all gotten more aggressive,

more belligerent because of what they see as weakness in president obama. i'm very encouraged that that's going to change and change significantly on january 20th. >> that's president obama. but has president putin committed war crimes? >> look, he's -- he committed acts of war. so you know, a war crime is a technical matter that you adjudicate under the laws of war. but he's a thug and he committed acts of war i'm not at all hesitant to say so. we need to stand up to him and resist. it's clear he is also committed repeated efforts to undermine america. i mean there is no doubt that we've seen cyber attacks in russia. we're going to continue to see them. we're going to continue to see them from china and north korea. we need a president, administration that recognizes those who are expressing a threat to america. >> if he had given that answer, we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> i know. >> senator graham, let me ask you the dn.

>> so ted for secretary of state. >> a new nominee. >> oh, my god. >> senator graham, let me ask you, the two of you are are stabbeding there today and you introduced a new bill that would defunneled u.n. because of that israel resolution from which the united states abstained. explain what you're trying do. >> 22% of the money to fund the u.n. comes from the american taxpayer. i don't think it's a good invest ment for an american taxpayer to give money to an organization that condemns the only democracy in the mideast, takes the settle ment issue and say that's the most important and only issue in term of impedestrianment to peace. i beg the u.n. months before, don't put me in this box. this is john kerry and obama taking a slap at israel. we're going to push back. i think most americans believe that the united nations has become more anti-semitic and we're going to stopt money until we get this fixed.

i appreciate ted's leadership on this. >> senator cruz? >> well, listen, the last month what we've seen barack obama do to israel, i think has been shameful. it's been on the way out. he struck out repeatedly at israel. and he's done real damage. at the united nations, the resolution that the obama administration abstained from and there are reports they actively orchestrated was a profoundly anti-israel resolution. it declares much of israel illegal and illegitimate. they say jerusalem is not part of israel. it declares the jewish quarter is not part of israel. it says the temple mount, the holiest site for people in jerusalem is not part of israel. and the western wall. we all remember the image of barack obama wearing a yamika standing in front of the western wall. he now signed on to the proposition that is illegal occupied territory. that is shameful n my view, we need to act to defend not only

our friend andal lite nation of israel but also u.s. interests. and so lindsey and i today are joining and filing legislation that would end all u.s. taxpayer funneleding for the u.n. unless and until they reverse this resolution. it's very sim immuch the only way to get their attention, we can give speeches and pass resolutions and the u.n. is going to ignore what we have to say. if you cut off their money, that gets their attention. think we got real prospect of seeing this thing move through congress and actually turning this thing around. >> senator graham i wament to go back to a different topic and legislation. the topic is rush why and the legislation is the bipartisan bill with senator mccain to both strengthen, solidify and broaden the sanctions that the obama administration's placing on russia because of the hacks last year. do you think on the basis of what you heard right now from the president-elect and from his secretary of state designee that they are anywhere close to where you are with respect to what has

to happen now to russia? >> number one, i realize i got 1% so we can let that go. here's what i think. i think there is a bipartisan desire to punish russia not only for hacking into our elections even though i don't believe they changed the outcome, they tried to disrupt our election ands they're doing it all over the world. the president-elect said he believed russia was behind the hacking. that is progress. tillerson indicates that sanctions are a pool that can be used in -- a tool in the toolbox that can be used. so i hope that tillerson will embrace sanctions if they're passed by the congress. i predict if we had a vote on more sanctions against russia today it would get 80 votes in the senate. >> and so are you comfortable -- is senator john mccain comfortable with the fact that rex tillerson will support

sanctions bill if it passes through the senate? >> he indicated that sanctions were justified for the invasion of the ukraine. he said he wants to look at additional sanctions before he commits. i am confident that if we can get 70 or 80 votes in the senate that trump administration will embrace sanctions. look at it this way. if we give them a pass, you're going to get more of this. iran and china are watching us. now is not the time to give russia a pass on trying to interfere with our election. more sanctions are necessary and justified for a variety of reasons. and i hope the president-elect will come to realize that the only way you have a better relationship with russia is when they stop invading their neighbors when putin stops killing his opposition, stalling his people blind and trying to interfere with democracy. nothing better is going to happen until he feels the pain of what he's doing. >> senator cruz, what advice if any would you have for the

president-elect about this simmering feud between the president-elect and the intelligence community? >> well, listen, like linld dse he and i both ran and we didn't win. donald trump won. i'm not in the advice giving business. there will be a natural transition of power that occurs on january 20th. the president-elect has appointed his own leadership to lead the intel jins communitlig. my concern has been the politicalization of the intelligence community and in particular the leadership of it under barack obama. i'm glad to see that change. and we all know there are many good principal and outrageous professionals in the intelligence community risking their lives. covert agents are putting everything on the line for this country. i know they are every bit as dismayed as i am about seeing the intelligence community politicized and treated as just another political arm of the

white house. i hope and believe that's going to change in the new administration. i think that will go a long way to resolving these issues. >> senators linlddsey graham an ted cruz, thank you for being on the show together. i'm glad you worked that out. >> we'll be in reno and we're performing all week. >> great to have you on. >> we'll buy the tickets. thank you. >> thank you so much. we'll be tracking the legislation to defund the u.n. on the vote over israel. we're less than an hour away from the start to have day's con frm mags hearings, trump's pick to lead the pentagon, james mattis goes before the senate arms services committee at 9:30. we're going to talk to a member of that committee, richard bl m bloombloo bloom bloomenthal next on "morning joe."

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can you imagine the waste and corruption we'll find when we begin a full investigation in january of 2017? i'm going to use every lawful authority to remove and discipline federal employees or managers who fail our veterans or breech the public trust. >> well there's at least one official at veterans affairs who won't be getting a pink slip from donald trump, that's the obama nominee the president-elect just elevated to run the department david shulkin. joining us from capitol hill, the top democrat on the committee on veterans affairs, senator richard bloomenthal of connecticut. he also sits on the judiciary and arms services committees before. we get to veterans affairs, let's talk about judiciary and how do you think you'll be fighting on senator jeff sessions for ag? >> i'm going to be opposing jeff sessions regretfully and respectfully. this job is one i know better than most. i served as united states

attorney for the chief federal prosecutor and attorney general of my state of connecticut for 20 years litigating alongside and sometimes against the department of justice and i have really studied jeff sessions' record and reflected on his testimony. and i remain unconvinced that he will be the champion for civil rights and liberties and freedoms that we need particularly at this point in our nation's history when they are so much under threat. and he has given me no confidence that he's going to be the independent voice that says no to the president when the president breaks the law speaking truth to power. he's a very important part of this job, especially in a perspective presidency that is fraught with conflicts of interest and the nation's legal conscience. >> so senator, you say you're going o regretfully and

inspectfully owe suppose senator sessions. take it you know him and spreret him. senator schumer said he is going to vote against jeff sessions. let me ask you, let's parse this a bit and are you persuaded by some of the testimony that was brought up against from the '86 confirmation hearings? do you believe he said racist things in the past? or are you basing your opposition to vote that's he has made, things he has done in the public record. sn. >> my opposition is based more on what he has done in the years since 1986 than those events that led to his rejection as a federal judge. and the reason is that he has demonstrated a hostility and

opposition to voting rights, women's health care care. >> do you think he's racially insensitive? do you think this is an ideological view point or does it have to be with him being racially insensitive towards people of color of and other minorities? >> he has voted against the hate crimes statute, against the violence against women act. he has said that a court decision striking down key provisions of voting rights act was good news. and i don't really think that jeff sessions is a racist. he has demonstrated that he is opposed to equal justice under law. he's willing to follow the law. but the attorney general of the united states has to be more than a follower. he has to be a leader when it comes to protecting and defending those fundamental rights that are increasingly under threat. and he has said that roe v.

wade, for example, ought to be reversed. he condemned that great precedent for women's health care. and i think that it is the combination of all of these stands and positions, not before 1986, but moistly afterward. >> senator, it's willie geist. you are ranking member on the veterans affairs. he named david shulkin. donald trump said the whole thing needs to be blown up and be reformed s that possible for someone that who is already within the system? >> david shulkin has been in the va for a very relatively short period of time. in fact, he was brought into the agency as the debacle that led to some of the other scandals. he was brought into the agency as a reformer. and he has a record of seeking reform and good management and

accountability. all of them very important. so my hope is that he will really make some radical reforms that eliminate the backlogs and disability claims as well as health care treatment, provide more quality care. he has an experti and experience in this area. what's needed is something dramatic. fundamental for our reform. it is supporting a lot of the hard-working va veterans who were there now but bringing accountability to that agency. >> senator, you're about to have general mattis bl the arms services committee as potential secretary of defense. what is your focus of questioning going to be with general mattis? >> i'm going to focus on the issue of waiver of the rule that says in effect that no one who has been out of the military for shorter than seven years can serve as the head of secretary of defense.

a number of the issues before general mattis concern the bedrock principle of civilian control. that's a fundamental principle for me. i talked to general mattis in private about it. i'll be interested in his view on a number of the issues relating to sexual assault in the military, a number of the weapons systems, the f-35 joint strike fighter and submarines which are both very, very important to our military age. and his view of the russians and the threat that they pose because he seems to be very much at odds with the president-elect on thash u and on a number of other issues. i'm interested in probing along with my fellow colagues on the committee how he is going to stand up to donald trump when our american strategic superiority is at stake. >> senator richard bloomenthal, thank you very much. good to have you on. >> thank you so much for being with us. greatly appreciate it. >> today's confirmation hearings

kick off in a little more than an hour. defense nominee james mattis at 9:30. at 10, mike pompeo for cia director and ben carson for hud. we're keeping a close eye on all of those. stay with us. 's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

everybody still talking about president obama's big farewell speech in chicago last night. the crowd was really going wild. there is one person that seemed particularly captivated by him. take a look at. this.

>> i created the core of every american whose story is not yet written. yes, we can. ♪ i'm going to keep on lovin' you ♪ ♪ because it's the only thing i wanna do ♪ >> cute. joining us now from capitol hill, nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nichols. we're 30 minutes away from general mattis' confirmation hearings. what hurdles does efface in getting approved? >> the hurdles he faces on just deciding which porter is going to care qui his bag for him at the beginning of this hearing. when you look at what happened yesterday on -- with rubio, it looked like rubio was clearly the one who is going after him. but you saw tillerson looking for help, looking for a sherpa. mattis won't is that problem. he'll be looking for a sherpa or porter. i'll let you decide which metaphor is more apt.

>> it is confusing. i think a porter. hans this is going to probably be the easiest, other than maybe general kelly, probably the easiest hearing for any of trump's nominees, is it not? >> potentially. i mean the one side issue here, there are two really, one russia and whether or not you see democrats try to drive a wedge between mattis and the president himself. and then this issue of a waiver. this senate is expected to vote on this waiver tonight. i expect you'll hear from democrats and objections about having this sort of separation between the military and civilian control. goldwater, nichols and all. that but that will be throat clearing. he's expected to get through in this waiver is expected to get past. >> what about -- he canceled a meeting before the house arms services committee which is really upset a lot of senators. >> yeah. >> but the house had sort of tried to jump in. did he cancel that house meeting

not to antagonize the senators who have voting on his nomination? >> it seems like optics, right? joe, you remember this from your time on the house. if there is one thing the house really hates, it's any suggestion that this senate is more important. that seemed largely like. that one other thing to watch today is the pompeo hearing. you'll see a similar dynamic. he's for the cia. you'll see the similar dynamic where democrats are really trying to drive a wedge between the nominees and the president they serve and his policy. here's the issue. here's the talk about this on capitol hill. they can try to drive wedges. the issue is the president's policy. what is the president's policy going to be on russia? how hawkish, friendly, accommodative is he going to be? guys? >> all right. hans nichols, thank you very much. we'll be watching throughout the day. >> i think that's how it works. i think that's really what is so fascinating about the hearings, the space between what donald trump said on the campaign trail and his selection and the nominees are saying. >> we saw it with tillerson

yesterday. certainly ukraine, crimea and things like that than donald trump has ever been. >> likely to see the same thing with mattis on the same topics. >> and especially pompeo. poor pompeo. >> that was quite a show this morning. that does it for us this morning here on "morning joe." brian williams picks up the coverageight now. >> it's always quite a show. thank you very much. and good morning, everyone. we're going to be talking about one hearing in particular this morning but also three of them concurrently in addition to general mattis there on the far left getting underway at 9:30, we have mike pompeo at 10 and dr. ben carson at hud 10:00 a.m. as well. the tillerson hearing continues as well. there is mattis on the far left, pompeo on the right. i guess