. that will wrap things up this hour of "msnbc live." i'm handing things off to my friend, katy tur, in new york city. >> thank you for sticking with us. thanks to you at home for sticking with me as well. one week from right now, donald trump will officially be president of the united states. but did he win as fairly and squarely as he claims? in focus, fbi director james comey now eyed by the justice department's inspector general. in question, how he handled the clinton e-mail investigation and why he broke protocol and went public. were politics at play? >> it's not like you can throw your challenge flag on the field and get a do-over because the ref made a call. >> it's clear the inspector general is carrying out a political investigation. >> comey felt the heat on the

hill today as he and other top intel chiefs held a classified briefing with lawmakers on russian hacking. democrats angry over comey's actions not holding back moments after that meeting. >> all i can tell you is the fbi director has no credibility. obamacare, will it stay or go? the senate -- the senate has laid the groundwork and in 45 minutes the house will have its turn with one question still unanswered. what will replace it? let's start with the intense scrutiny surrounding the fbi and its director. james comey was on the hill today amidrevelations he's the subject of a major justice department review. the inspector general announced thursday it would investigate broad allegations of misconduct in the fbi's handling of a probe into hillary clinton's e-mails. today comey joined top intelligence officials for a closed door briefing from members of the house on russian hacking. some of those lawmakers emerged from that meeting expressing a lack of confidence in the fbi

leader, as you saw with maxine waters. not, it seems, over russian hacking but, instead, on his handling of hillary clinton's e-mails. >> i can just put forth nye my confidence in the fbi director's ability to lead this agency is shaken. >> do you still have confidence in fbi director comey? >> i want to. i have concerns. >> let's dive right into today's news with our correspondents. joining me from the hill is kasie hunt, peter alexander in our washington news room and steve kornacki joins me on set. some say comey cost hillary clinton the election. what are democrats going to do? are they going to call for comey's head? >> reporter: at this point, we're seeing a lot of anger on the part of the democrats. it's bursting out into the open here on capitol hill. of course, fbi director comey has been on both the senate and house side in the last 24 hours for a totally different reason, or at least a somewhat different

reason. briefing members of congress with james clapper and other officials on the contents of that report that was prepared on russian meddling in the u.s. election. but we know that frustration bubbled over at the meeting with senators last afternoon. they expressed intense frustration with the role comey played in this fbi -- in the letters that were sent back and forth right before election day. it didn't come up with house members today, according to people that i spoke to, but you did see some expressed frustration. we had one congresswoman, maxine waters, come to the microphones in flont of the cameras, saying nothing except fbi director comey has lost all credibility before basically walking away. she didn't literally dropt mi t mike, but that's how it came across. >> there's a drama on the hill between democrats and comey. also continued drama between donald trump and the intelligence community. peter, i want to talk to you about that. he he earlier this week was almost becoming more

conciliatory with the intelligence community, making up with them, as you will. now he's firing back at them again. what is going on here? >> i think in effect you're only as good as you say in the tv business as the last report you've done. he may only be as good as the last statement he's made. here's specifically what he said in a series of tweets that he fired off this morning where he was very critical of the intelligence community. a lot relates back to the providing of information this dossier as it was described, unverified lewd comments of donald trump he at the time said was fake news, he blasted this morning as phoney news. bottom line is donald trump very soon is going to be the man ultimately to whom the intelligence community is most responsible. he's going to be the person that serves as their number one client. again today, he indicated how stressed, in effect, that relationship may be as things begin.

>> we saw on the hill during testimony that many of the cabinet picks expressioned their own views, but ultimately, isn't it donald trump that matters most in what he says and what he believes regardless of what his cabinet members say? >> it raises the question, though. we haven't had a situation like this before of how much autonomy these cabinet officials, if confirmed will have? will they have more latitude and ability to set their own course than in the obama administration, the bush administration before it? we've seen traditionally where policy gets set out of the white house and the cabinet heads are to implement it. there are two ways to read this. one is, yes, trump has put his markers down and we know where he stands and he'll impose -- >> do we know where he stands? >> on some of these things. the question then, though, becomes how committed to that is donald trump or if rex tillerson is secretary of state, does rex tillerson get more latitude than secretaries of state? you've seen chris coons, senator

from delaware, who said he noticed the daylight between tillerson and trump and he was actually comforted by what he heard from tillerson. he found himself asking the question, if i vote down tillerson, will i do worse that trump county puts in there because maybe that daylight is good. >> there is a gamble who he would pick next if they were not to get tillerson. in a few minutes the congress will vote on obama. the senate already laid the groundwork. walk me through what you're expected to see around 2:45. >> reporter: we'll see the house vote on this budget blueprint passed earlier this week by the senate. it sets up the framework for repealing the president's health care law. it sets up framework that lets them do it with just 51 votes in the senate. that means they could do it with only republican support. so, what we're going to be watching for in the next hour, katy, is how many republicans defe defect. there might be some conservatives who are worried this doesn't do enough in

replacing the health care law because it essentially takes away things that bring money into the government, so can throw the budget out of whack. that's on the one hand. on the other hand you have moderate republicans that are concerned that there isn't a replacement plan. republicans have had years to build one. they've been running on this issue for quite some time. they don't have a concrete plan as part of this, so you have some moderates who are voicing concern about that. but, of course, the leadership are sdug in the way we've seen this debate unfold for the last seven years. take a look at what speaker ryan and nancy pelosi had to say earlier today. >> my colleagues, this experiment has failed. this law is collapsing while we speak. we have to step in before things get worse. this is nothing short of a rescue mission. >> republicans are feeding their idealogical obsession with repealing the aca and

dismantling the health and economic security of hard-working families. we will not allow the republicans to make america sick again. >> president-elect trump has promised to repeal and replace simultaneously in the same week, even the same hour. let me tell you, i have never seen congress do something in a single hour that's as big as replacing the health care law. >> we will see if something changes. kasie hunt, thank you so much. >> reporter: i remain skeptical. >> peter, steve, thank you so much. from banning muslims to hackihack ing russians, donald trump and his cabinet picks aren't seeing eye to eye. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> i have no belief and do not support the idea that muslims as a religious group should be denied admission to the united

states. >> i don't think it's ever appropriate to focus on something like religion as the only factors. >> if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks, that's called an asset, not a liability. >> the most important thing is that we recognize the reality of what we deal with, with mr. putin, and we recognize that he is trying to break the north atlantic alliance. >> as far as hacking, i think it was russia. well, russia, but, you know what, could have been others also. >> general kelly, do you accept the conclusion of the intelligence community regarding russian interference in our election? >> with high confidence. >> this was an aggressive action taken by the senior leadership inside of russia. >> well, i think it's pretty sad when intelligence reports get leaked out to the press. >> this allegation is that the agency itself has become political siize politicized. do you believe that? >> in my experience, i have not seen that. >> i have very high degree of confidence in our intelligence community. >> republican congressman trent

franks of arizona joins me now live from the hill. congressman, you just heard that, i hope, quite a bit of a sound between donald trump and his cabinet members disagreeing on many of his key policy points. isn't it the job of trump's cabinet picks to represent his policies, especially since he was elected on those policies? >> well, i think that from the overarching perspective, that's true. if you look at what these cabinet members or these appointees have said, they're largely in general keeping with mr. trump's direction. and i think it speaks to mr. trump's willingness to appoint people that aren't just -- they don't just walk in lock step with him on everything. they have minds of their own. i think that's one of the reasons he appointed them, is that they are -- >> hold on. you say they're largely in step with him. there's quite a few pretty significant differences, congressman. i want to run through a couple with you, in addition to what we just saw.

general james mattis said he would honor the iran deal. donald trump talked about ripping that up if he got into office. he called moscow one of the top threats. donald trump has refused to say that about russia. pompeo said he would not use torture. we've seen donald trump walk that back a bit, but certainly during the campaign he talked about wanting to waterboard and worse. general kelly played down the need to build a wall, saying that it wouldn't necessarily need to be a physical wall. those are some pretty big differences, especially since donald trump got elected on those things. those were the things that got the roar from the crowds. i know this because i saw it almost every day for 17 months. >> well, you know, when general mattis talked about the notion that, you know, that he had maybe some disagreement with the administration, i still believe that they have slightly different jobs in this world. you know, if general mattis has an agreement that the american side has said that this is

something that is the agreement, then i think he's obligated to try to follow it the best he can. on the other hand, when you have the president of the united states that says he's going to try to change that and maybe he used dramatic rhetoric to emphasize that, he may at some point decide that because the iranians are breaking that deal every day, that it's time to reconsider it. i don't see the great difference between those two men, though. the bottom line is that both of them understand the danger that iran represents and both of them understand that mr. obama's agreement prevent iran from getting nuclear weapons. it put them on the path and bank rolled in the process. >> the one that voted for donald trump, the one that did not vote for donald trump, who should they be looking to now for decision-making and policy making? is it donald trump's cabinet or -- would-be cabinet who have been testifying on the hill or is it donald trump himself? >> well, i think everyone knows

the president will set the general direction and the different cabinet members may have some differences of opinion in how they approach that. and if it's within the president's general direction, he probably will accountance that. if not, he'll make a change there. it's always been a balance. i'm a republican member of congress. i don't agree with mr. trump on everything. he knows that. and he understands it. if two people agree on absolutely everything, only one of them is doing any thinking. so, i don't see the dichotomy here. >> will there be a muslim ban? the cabinet pick said they don't agree with banning swub on on the basis of religion. >> i don't know about that. obviously, i believe in the first amendment that congress should make no law establishing religion or prohibit the exercise thereof. that's my perspective. i think that will be the perspective that will ultimately prevail. >> congressman, it's going to be

a busy four years. hope you're up for it. >> yes, it is. >> thank you for joining us. in today's microsoft pulse question, are you concerned about your health care being impacted by an obamacare repeal? let us know what you think at pulse.msnbc.com. we'll would he veal the results later on in the broadcast. attorney lowretta lynch say police did use excessive force against its citizens. but what's next? they'll be joined by congressman tim ryan who is also inside

. president-elect trump lashed out at hillary clinton today, calling her guilty as hell. one day after the doj inspector

general announced he will investigate james comey's actions during the elections, as comey and leaders of the u.s. intelligence committee briefed house members on russian hacking activities leading up to election day. tim ryan is a democratic congressman from ohio and serves in the house armed services committee. let's talk about that briefing you were just in. can you tell us anything specifically you learned? did we find out if trump's team was in contact with anyone from russia during the election? >> we can't talk about everything we heard in there, but the investigation continues to see because the gravity of the situation is so immense. i mean, this goes right to the heart of our democracy. we've got to have members of congress in the house, in the senate, be very, very vigilant about this. russia got involved in our election. i mean, this is some serious business. they were picking candidates in our election, trying to influence our election.

and we've got to make sure the american people recognize that we're not in a cold war with russia. in many ways we're in a very hot war with russia right now. it's a very different war than the war that we picture in our minds from world war ii or the past 20 or 30 years. this is happening right now. they're influencing and trying to influence elections all over the world. and, you know, weave g've got t very vigilant to protect the sanctity of our democracy. we should be very upset about what happened and we need to take action. >> it's a tense time on capitol hill. you have james comey among other intel officers briefing you there in congress, but you also have james comey facing his own criticism for his handling of hillary clinton's e-mails and releasing them before the election. your colleague, maxine waters, walked out of that briefing and said he had no credibility. do you believe that fbi director james comey has credibility?

>> yeah, i think he does have credibility. you know, obviously, he made a calculation before the election that many of us clearly disagreed with. and, and having an investigation into that, i think, is appropriate because of the general checks and balances that we need to have in our system here. and so i think that's appropriate. again, to get back to the heart of the matter -- >> well, does it -- my question is, does it cloud potentially other members who don't agree with what he did before the election? does it cloud their judgment on his judgment for -- >> certainly. >> -- russian hacking? >> yeah, certainly. well, i don't know directly -- >> are they picking and choosing what they're going to decide he has good judgment for? >> look, he was really in a difficult position. i'm not here to defend the man. he's purely capable of defending himself. i clearly disagree with what he

did before the election and i think it had an effect on the election. did it swing the election one way or the another, i'm not sure, but when you have the republican partying breathing down your neck, not letting you operate in what many of us would think is standard operating procedures, but the threat, the hammer hanging -- >> you believe it's -- that was a politically motivated decision for him, then, if the -- if you think the republicans influenced him enough to go out and release these e-mails? that's a politically motivated decision. >> well, everything's a politically motivated decision. >> do you think the fbi is politically motivated? >> not -- not one way or the other within the context of the election. i think in his heart, he probably believed he was doing what he thought was right. i don't think he was trying to influence -- >> but you just said the republicans were breathing down his neck. >> they were, yeah. i mean, i think there was a concern for him if he -- if he didn't release it, but the standard operating procedure

within the fbi, as i understand it, is to not speak about these things. >> okay, i want to get -- >> but to have a hammer hanging over your head at the same time, i could see why he did what he did. >> i want to get your take on what is going on with the affordable care act and obamacare. at 2:45 the house is going to vote on whether they're going to continue with the senate, basically, gutting it so it can can be repealed. are you concerned that there's no replacement plan? i assume are you. and do you plan on working with republicans as you had said if there is a replacement plan that's brought forward quickly? >> look, this is a terrible, terrible idea to repeal it. there's absolutely no reason to do this. to repeal it. are is there issues we need to fix? yes. sit down -- republicans should be saying let's sit down, pick the three, four, five issues that are wrong with the obamacare that, quite frankly, we didn't get right and fix them. they're not doing that. they're politicizing it and now they're going to throw 20, 30

million people off the health care. it's going to affect opiate and heroine epidemic, hospitals, all of those people are going to be hurt, on and, on and on, millions of kids. let's fix the problem. now, if they throw people off and people lose their health care, then i think we have an obligation to sit down and have a conversation about how we get people back on their health care, which is such -- which begs the point, why are you doing this? why are you throwing people off of their health care. there's no good reason -- >> to force democrats to work with them to come up with a new plan quickly. maybe playing devil's advocate. i don't really know. >> that may be their strategy but they haven't even been able to pass budgets in the last couple of years. now they want to repeal health care and replace it all within the context of the time frame of a few weeks or a few months. where's your plan? they've been talking about repealing it now for eight years. they didn't lift a finger to try to help the president or help democrats fix some of the problems that were in it. no legislation is perfect. we should be about the business

of fixing things. they weren't around although all to try to help. now all of a sudden they're going to repeal, it make the problem worse and then come to the democrats and say, hey, can you help us put this thing back together? it's insanity. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you for joining me. good luck later today during that vote. >> thank you. a scathing report by the justice department calling out chicago officers for civil rights abuses. it's triggering change within the department to restore faith between police and the people they will supposed to protect. i wanted to know where my family came from. i did my ancestrydna. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american. i had no idea. it's opened up a whole new world for me. ♪ here you go.picking up for kyle. you wouldn't put up with part of a pizza. um. something wrong? so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? you want the whole thing?

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for years people in chicago have -- after a 13-month investigation prompted by the fatal shooting caught on tape of 17-year-old laquan mcdonald. this morning attorney general loretta lynch announced the results of a 13-month long civil rights investigation into the chicago pd.

>> there is reasonable cause to believe that the chicago police department engages in a pattern or practice of use of excessive force in violation of the fourth amendment to the constitution. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez joins me live from our chicago news room. lay out the findings of this report and what it means for the chicago police department. >> good afternoon. as you mentioned, the report is really scathing. it mentions the chicago police department systematically violated the constitution and really unfairly targeted minorities. the attorney general really talked about several things, including the department did not give proper training to its officers and the department failed to adequately have accountability. she centered many of her comments on training. point out that during the police

academy some trainees were looking at training videos that were two decades old. they also said that -- doj officials said police officers had shot and tasered suspects really for no good reason at all. now, the obama administration has opened about 25 investigations over the last several years. and with the administration winding down, they are now trying to wrap some of those up, including those in baltimore where attorney general loretta lynch was there yesterday talking about the descent decree in baltimore. so, this report had been expected for some time here, and i'm going to send it back to you, i'm told. >> hey there, gabe. we are right now monitoring trump tower. we're told donald trump, the president-elect, could come down and talk to reporters at some point during the day. of course, he's been holding transition meetings up there in trump tower and also hanging over his head a potential fight

with the intelligence community. after all, he went after the intelligence community again on twitter this morning. we'll find out what exactly he is going to address. of course, when donald trump comes out of those elevators. no one seems to know what he will say until he says it. that's pretty standard for the president-elect and even the campaigner donald trump was during the campaign. coming up next, though, the man behind the dossier. what we know about the spy tapped to dig up dirt on donald trump. our chief global correspondent bill neily went to the kremlin to get answers. the microsoft cloud helps us

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and they're absolutely right. they say that it's hot... when really, it's scorching. and while some may say the desert is desolate... we prefer secluded. what is the desert? it's absolutely what you need right now. absolutely scottsdale. whatever it is. i may be right, they may be right, but i said, be yourselves. i could have said, do this, do that, i want them all to be themselves. everybody okay? everybody good. >> on repeal and replace -- >> thank you. say hello to harvey. >> repeal and replace is going great. >> you can see donald trump what probably amounts to two pretty short questions and introducing steve harvey, who's coming to

the mike. you might recognize steve harvey. of course, he has a daytime talk show on this network, nbc news, on our sister network. let's listen to what steve harvey has to say about that meeting. >> i was invited here by both transitions team, obama's transition team and trump's transition team. it was a really cool meeting in the beginning. we talked about golf and things like that, people we knew, people in common. then we got down to the crux of it. he's introduced me to ben carson who's now the new head of housing for urban development, and we're going to team up and see if we can bring about some positive change in the inner cities, which i felt was my only agenda. he agreed. and he wants to do something. he realizes he needs some allies in that department. he seems really sincere about it. >> chicago? >> chicago is definitely one.

another one they want to start with as a target is detroit. ben carson expressed that. quite naturally, he's from detroit. i want to do things with all the major inner cities to see if we can bring about some change and help some of these young people out. that's why i'm here. it was a successful meeting. he seemed really sincere. >> thank you, sir. steve, it's like a jump rope -- it's a jump into politics, steve. >> well, you know, it's not my jump into politics. i'm not going to pass a background check, but i -- it's just me following orders from my friend, president obama, who says, steve, you got to, as he told everybody, get out from behind your computer, stop tweeting and texting and get out there and sit down and talk. so, i stepped from behind my microphone and i came and talked

to the guy that's going to be the 45th president of the united states. i did what i was supposed to do. >> how did this come about? >> the transition team from president obama and the transition team from donald trump got me on the phone about a week or so go. [ inaudible ] >> no, i'm -- i'll be turning 60 on tuesday. and my wife is taking me far away, so i won't be at anybody's inauguration, because my wife said no. [ inaudible ] >> the trumps being on "family feud"? yeah, against the obamas, that will be good, or how about the clintons. if i could set it up, it would be skyrocketing for the ratings, yeah. [ inaudible ] >> i would, you know. i'm -- i'm handling everything pretty good. you know, of course, it's an honor to be invited to talk.

i think that's the only way we're going to unify our country. we've got to talk, you know. president obama said, you've got to sit down and talk. i enjoyed the conversation. he seemed sincere. he was a genuine person in the meeting. >> do you have any lingering feelings, things you're kerntd about, things you haven't heard yet or is he on the same page as you? >> for this we got off to a great start. i think it could be the beginning of something. for them to invite me here to talk about a specific problem and thought i might be able to help, i know i got a big radio show, a lot of people listen every morning, so i've always been concerned about inner city problems because it's huge. my men torg problem -- excuse me, my men torg promise has been a part of this time -- that's what i want to see happen. they were spot on with it. ben carson got on the phone, i met with him over the phone today. but i sat with president-elect

trump and we laughed a little bit. i ain't been laughing that much over the last few days. they're kind of beating me up on the internet right now for no reason. that's life. >> what did you laugh about? >> we talked about golf. we laughed about my score in golf, his score in golf. we talked about some of the friends we have in common, mark burnett. we talked about tv shows, things like that. he's a fan so he's seen it. i met his daughters who are very sweet. i think we're off to a good start. >> steve, how do you -- how did you move between being a comedian and spokesperson? steve harvey talking to the people and everyone and have that comedian and -- >> well, you know, it's two things in your life. your career is what you pay for and your calling is what you're made for. so i have a responsibility to the community that i service to try to be a voice and speak on

some issues. so, they've heard me. they knew where i stood on the elections. nothing's changed. but we got to talk. i thought he was a great guy. we really had a nice conversation. >> i have seen a lot -- in this administration about race. jeff sessions and some of the things the president-elect said on the campaign trail about the inner cities. are your doubts gone or are you going to try to work them out? >> look, you don't kill it in one conversation but you can start it with the conversation. a lot about what people say, now it's time to see what you do. and he said he wanted to do something. we're going to see. i've been put in contact with ben carson, which was great. i spoke with him. we're going to get some things

started. we're going to get plans for the inner city but they need help. we'll see what we can do. >> do you support the sessions nomination? >> the sessions nomination? i don't really know anything about it. >> did you ask him -- he had some questions whether or not he was on the right side of history and so forth. >> i don't really like commenting on stuff i don't really understand or know about. i'm not a politician, to be honest with you. i'm hoping these people can straighten it all out, but i want to get in here and do my share. hi a good conversation and moving forward it ought to be good. >> appreciate it, steve. >> thank you, guys. >> donald trump coming down and introducing steve harvey, who he met with at trump tower. taking a couple questions a little earlier from reporters. one asking how he felt about his cabinet members disagreeing with

him on some of his key issues. we discussed this during this show. donald trump said he wants his cabinet members to, quote, be yourself, say what you want. he also was asked about the border wall and he brushed off that question. steve harvey, however, going in, saying he wanted to have a conversation. it's important to have conversations. he was advised, he says, by both the obama transition and the trump transition to try and sit down and talk to the president-elect and see how he could help. the president-elect, according to steve harvey, setting him up with ben carson, who is his potential pick for h.u.d., housing sxur ban development. trump going to try to work with steve harvey if confirmed on how to fix the inner city. that's what steve harvey was saying. also commenting that your career is what you paid for, your calling is what you're made for. that's why steve harvey was at trump tower today. obviously, his appearance capping off a week that can only

be described as a roller coaster ride. take wednesday, for instance. at one point we have president-elect trump's picks for secretary of state, attorney general and transportation secretary in the middle of their confirmation hearings. hearings featuring historic moments like a sitting senator testifying against another sitting senator while trump himself gave his first news conference in six months. it was supposed to be about his conflicts of interest, a massive story within itself. but what got him most fired up, no surprise, that dossier and a chance to trash the media. >> it's all fake news. it's phoney stuff. it didn't happen. sick people. they put that crap together. >> information that was false and fake, never happened. bu buzzfeed, which is a piling piece of garbage. not you. not you. your organization's terrible. >> a look back at this week, aim joined by howard dean, former

governor of vermont and former dnc chair, a msnbc contributor, and ron nair, former backer for ted cruz's campaign. this news conference was to be about his conflicts of interests. instead, that gets buried by salacious alleged russian dossier of information against donald trump. is this the problem we're having with the trump traditinsition, big stories get buried and other outrageous things come out? >> well, in this case something outrageous got buried but something more outrageous took place in the press room. this is a test for the media. as you know, most people who pay attention to this don't think the media did very well during the last election.

i was disappointed, and i hope this doesn't happen again, when trump goes after somebody in the media, the other organizations have got to stand up for that person. the trump folks are going to try to intimidate the press. that's their m.o. i was disappointed other reporters didn't stand up and say, until you answer his questions, we're not asking you anymore. this has to happen. this is a democracy. it's not going to be a democracy if you let a major news organization get intimidated by him standing at the podium. the media is sensitive to the criticism they got, which was well deserved. i think they're trying to do better, but they're not going to do better unless they can all stand together and right the things they're entitled to right because it's a free press. >> as a republican on our panel, i'm going to direct this question to you. the #fakenews is now being used by donald trump and his team and those who support him to

basically discredit any news that might contain information that is even slightly critical to donald trump or blanketly discredit news media in general. what do you make of that? do you see that as a problem going forward, for you, the for the republican party if the next person who's ee electriced is a democrat and suddenly the democrats say, everything that the media might report negatively against them is fake news? >> this has been really interesting to watch the relationship between donald trump and the media, having been ted cruz's spokesman during the presidential campaign, we watched when media would cover an empty trump podium for seemingly hours on end, he would fly away and they would cover the plane flying away, so on. it's interesting to watch that relationship continue. but i think it's similymbiotic. trump denigrates the media and then you provide him with more and more coverage.

it's an interesting dynamic, one i haven't seen in my 25 years in politics. one thing is clear, going forward, donald trump is going to dominate every news cycle over the course of the next four years. i imagine there will be very few evening newscasts where donald trump is not mentioned in the first five minutes of the broadcast because he's really mastered this. i'm not sure the media has decided how to cover it. the idea of what russia did in terms of the russian government and hacking, i think that's a completely separate issue. but one which, of course, was an important one during the course of the campaign and will be investigated going forward. >> that's a separate issue but also the business conflicts. the office of ethics says donald trump has not done enough to separate himself from his businesses. what do you think the democrats can do, the republicans can do,

to make sure there is not controversy following this presidency, voters either side of the aisle not knowing where donald trump's interests lie? >> i think you'll see the intimidation play book. jason chaffetz decided to get involved with this by trying to intimidate the ethics officer for criticizing the president. this is pretty scary stuff when you think you can intimidate all the institutions not to let people be crooks in high position and now you have the congress going after the ethics investigator? some congressman to make a name for himself because he didn't like the fact that donald trump was criticized? again, this stuff has got to be posted up. we've got to talk about it. the mainstream media has to find their voice again after having

lost it for many years in the service of making more money. for les moonves, the president of cbs to say america didn't do well, cbs did great. i think that summarizes where mainstream media is which has to change if -- >> i think that blanket disapproval of the mainstream media is not fair at all, number one. number two, ron to you, though, jason chaffetz, as howard alluded to, is calling for basically the head of the ethics office, saying this is something they shouldn't have been doing. donald trump ran on draining the swamp. the fact you're going after the ethics committee, making sure congressmen or not or the president are not violating those rules, i mean, how is that draining the swamp? that seems like it's just letting the swamp fester? >> i certainly think it's highly advisable for the president and every one in his administration to comply with the various

ethics rules that exist and to take a very expansive approach to that. to make sure whenever there is even the shadow of a doubt, they should make sure they step back from that. the reason is, when you make good solid policy decisions and a lot of change is coming to washington and the country for the better in 2017, you want to make sure that none of those issues are overshadowed by business interests or the perception that -- dealings might be influenced in that. when you have as expansive as a footprint that donald trump has, that becomes a very complicated thing. i don't think we've seen the end of of this process whatsoever. i do think it was really kind of odd for the head of one of these government offices to take to twitter. that's something which elected officials and -- >> even though donald trump takes to twitter all the time. >> well, that's true, but he's now about to be an elected official and a politician. when the head of bureaucracy

takes to twitter and weighs one way, the other -- >> an influence. you could argue they're asserting influence in the same way donald trump is trying to assert influence, use the bullypulpit in the same way. donald trump wants to get things done by tweeting through things and criticizing through tweets. maybe the governmental ethics office wants to get things done by getting donald trump criticized by the public in the same way that he does everyone else. >> i don't think that's what congress had intended when these offices were created. i understand the point he's trying to make but i don't think he chose the proper form to do that. if you want to get into a twitter war with donald trump, you're not going to win. >> that's probably true. >> i do agree that's how you win. get in a twitter war with him. >> i guess -- i wonder if anyone will get in a twitter war with him. i haven't seen anyone do that successfully, so far at least. maybe, howard, you can try doing that? >> i don't think howard has the answer. i don't think howard's team has the answer. >> former governor howard

dean -- >> not yet we don't. >> thank you for joining me. we have so much to talk about. i'm sure we'll get a chance to do it very soon. on capitol hill, meanwhile, any moment the house will have its say in laying the groundwork to repeal obamacare. we'll bring you any developments as they happen here on msnbc live. l pet food that goes beyond assuming ingredients are safe... to knowing they are. going beyond expectations... because our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company.

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at any minute the house is expected to vote on a resolution that could pave the way for republicans to repeal obamacare within just weeks. here's a live look at the house floor. we do expect that resolution to pass. as for the repeal itself, that is a question that is much harder to answer. i'm joined by wendell potter, senior analyst for public integrity who spent more than two decades working in the health insurance industry. the author of the book "obamacare: what's in it for me." you're the expert. talk to me. if they repeal this, if they're

successful in repealing this, suddenly 20, 30 million people are without health care. what does that look like for the country? >> what it looks like is a lot of people who actually need to have access to health care, and that means people with preexisting conditions, people who are older and have greater health care needs, they are the people who will no longer be able to get the care they need because they will no longer have the assurance that health insurance companies will sell them coverage. before affordable care act, health insurance companies declared them uninsure appable or charged them so much. that's what the world will look like once again -- >> does that mean our emergency rooms get flooded if somebody gets sick and they don't have health care, 20 to 30 million people get sick, and they don't have health care, what happens? >> that's exactly what happens.

people postpone the care they need. they don't get it in a timely way. we will see our emergency rooms being flooded once again, more than before, of people who can't get the care they need. they go to the emergency room when it is an emergency. hospitals will have to absorb this in some way. it becomes uncompensated care buzz you can't bill people who don't have the money. >> so, that's -- >> that affects our economy, no doubt, doesn't it? >> it affects our economy and cause everybody else's health insurance premiums to go up again. because when hospitals are in dire straits, as they will be, we'll see insurance companies jacking up the rates on everybody else to help keep the hospitals -- help them keep their doors open. it's really catastrophic. the thing that i found when i was on capitol hill during the health care reform debate is members of congress, in both parties, have such a -- their understanding of health insurance is so inadequate.

they don't know that they're playing with here. and the republicans have been telling each other this story for so long that the law is so bad, they've been believing it. now they're realizing, whoa, let's back up a minute. what are the consequences of repealing it? maybe some of the thoughtful ones are, but they're on this path that it may not be able to be derailed. >> if they do vote to essentially gut it today and lay the groundwork to repeal the entire thing, is it possible to have a replacement plan ready quickly enough to make sure that there is -- i mean, could the repeal happen quickly but the actual implementation of repeal take much longer to accomplish? >> yes, it would because it look a long time to write the affordable care act, for one thing. people don't really understand because the administration and democrats didn't explain it well enough. it's complicated, first of all. secondly, yeah, it -- the

republicans don't really have a plan ready to go. they've talked about various elements, none of which, quite frankly, will fill the gap, will help people get the coverage that they need. it just won't. so there is no replacement plan that the republicans have any consensus on. i don't think the democrats will want to help them figure that out. so, i don't -- and during that time, during this time between when it's repealed and whenever they might come up with a replacement plan, the insurance companies are going to get nervous. they will get out of the exchanges. they will stop offering coverage on the individual market. a lot of these companies answer to shareholders. they don't really like that market in the first place and they don't make a lot of money on it. they will get out of that in a new york minute, i'll guarantee it. >> what's your prediction, do you think this is going to happen? do you think suddenly we'll find 20 to 30 million people without health care for a period of

time? >> i don't. senator corker, i think they get, it i think they understand this could be bad for their constituents and for the country. i think there will be some changes. it may be cosmetic and they may say this is what we've done for the good of the country, that may be as as far as we go. at least i'm hoping that may be the outcome. >> thank you for joining me. >> thank you. let's see what you're saying about our microsoft pulse question of the day. we're asking, are you concerned about your health care being impacted by an obamacare repeal? so far 95% of you say yes. that is a landslide. just 5% of you say no. keep voting at pulse.msnbc.com. that wraps things up for me this hour. i'm katy tur live in new york. you can catch up with me live on twitter at katyturnbc and also on facebook. ali velshi picks things up.

>> very informative. have a great afternoon. i'm in for kate snow today who's on assignment in vermont, interviewing bernie sanders. here are our top three stories we're following right now. first up, a very busy day on capitol hill as the house is set to vote on akey budget mechanism to allow the repeal of obamacare to move forward. the question is, what that replacement plan might look like? is there a replacement plan? how fast could republicans get that passed? earlier, house speaker paul ryan spoke about what's next. >> our goal is a truly patient-centered system, which means more options to choose from, lower costs and greater control over your coverage. as we work to get there, we will make sure that there is a stable transition period so people don't have the rug pulled out from under them. so that this will be a thoughtful step by step process. we welcome ideas from both sides of the