your dvr and follow me on twitter @greta, and check out my facebook page for behind the scenes videos and so much more. there's a lot that i put on may facebook page that never makes air, plus you get to meet all my pets which you may not want to meet. anyway, "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. a fine good-bye. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. less man 48 hours the obama m presidency will be history. today he answered questions from the press one last time and reflected on his tenure. president obama defended his decision yesterday to commute the sentence of chelsea manning and offered this insit into what his successor, donald trump, will do. >> having won an election, opposed to a number of my

initiatives, and certain aspects of my vision for where the country needs to go, it is appropriate for him to go forward with his vision and his values. it may be that on certain issues, once he comes into office and he looks at the complexities of how to, in fact, provide health care for everybody, something he says he wants to do. that may lead him to some of the same conclusions that i arrived at. >> president obama said he wants to be quiet for a while and spend time with his family but he said there were certain issues that would cause him to speak out under a trump presidency. they include if he saw systemic discrimination or additional obstacles put in place of people trying to vote, of efforts to silence the dissent or the press, and any effort to round up dreamers, those are young kids who were brought here without documentation, and send them out of the country. yet the president ended the press conference with an incredibly hopeful message.

here he is. >> i believe in this country. i believe in the american people. i believe that people are more good than bad. i think there's evil in the world but i think that at the end of the day if we work hard and if we're true to those things in us that feel true and feel right, that the world gets a little better each time. that's what this presidency has tried to be about. it is true that behind closed doors, i curse more than i do in public, and sometimes i get mad and frustrated like everybody else does, but at my core, i think we're going to be okay. >> wow. join me right now, incredibly successful syndicated columnist kathleen parker, "the new york times" reporter, amesha sinder, and walter isaacson.

walter, i want you to start this thing. i think he's a fine man. i think he's been a fine president. we can argue about policy, that's what we do in this country. the way he raised his family, the way he presented himself today, way he talked about his daughters and how patriotic they've been raised, i don't know how anybody could have had a problem with what he said today. >> i thought the end of the press conference in particular, when he talked about his daughters, how his daughters reacted to the election, he was talking to all of us at a country and that sort of beautiful ending of i believe in this country, i believe people are more good than bad. that type of thing is exactly what we needed now. there are an elegance to him as well as an eloquence and i hope everybody watches that press conference because it makes you feel really good about democracy, even if you're on the losing side. this is the way countries -- >> i thought it was a bookend to the hope poster that a lot of people were thrilled by when he ran. but i also thought he had a great line there that people who

are grim right now, kwhat faces us on friday and beyond. what did he say about the end of the world? the only end of the world is the end of the world. i think we should all remember that when things are not going our way. i think this is big picture stuff. >> it is big picture stuff. the line i liked also when he said i curse a little bit behind closed doors. >> who doesn't? >> i think it was a message for all people to say, especially people in this country who are cursing and are angry, that this country is going to be okay and we need to move forward and that this message of hope, even if it wasn't perfect, things didn't get done the way he wanted them to get done, essentially it's up to you to carry this forward and things will get done a little at a time. >> he was trying to coach us, the press, you're not here to sycophants, he was warning the press don't get meek all of a sudden. >> i think he was being very

artful in sending a message to donald trump because donald trump has been, you know, calling us, legitimate news organizations, fake news and alerted people that they're going to be losing their place in the press room at the white house. >> yeah. >> so in way without naming trump, without, you know, without casting aspersion on him or anyone else, he was able to say, this is the reason we have a press, these are the things they need to do. and this is what we need for it not only for country to understand what's going on but to hold our feet to the fire. so that was a very important message without naming names. >> here's the always -- the backdrop, everything he does is about race, of course. her is president obama spoke about the state of race relations in the country. let's watch then we'll pick up on that. >> we got more work to do on race. it is simply not true that things have gotten worse. they haven't. things have getting better. and hopefully my presidency maybe helped that along a little bit. when we feel stress, when we feel pressure, when we're just

fed information that encourages some of our worst instincts, we tend to fall back into some of the old racial fears and racial divisions and racial stereotypes. >> is his optimism warranted or is it just he's an elite guy, president of the united states, his kids go to elite schools, he hangs around with elite people. is that a general feeling, you think, in the community? >> i think there's a general feeling in the community of two things, i say african-americans, on the one hand you have this african-american president and saw this country kind of almo alst -- the person who aed the question said you saw the rubber band of inequality -- >> people did. >> -- spread as far as it could and saw it expand and there was this hope and possibility. the people on the streets, mothers who lost their children to racially charged incidents with the police, they are not optimist optimistic, they're scared of jeff sessions as attorney general. people take issue with his

optimism. some ways they're very warranted. even though he was the first african-american president, with saw this movement calling to question race in this country under his presidency. >> you know, roosevelt, the famous line of all-time, in his inaugural address. trump's not going to match it. he's probably not going to match kennedy's, you know, "ask not." he did say "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" a national condition, brought on by a frightening set of economic events, 27% people were out of work. trump is what the people fear. not nothing to fear but fear, they fear trump. >> well, you know -- >> i talked to enough people on this show, jonathan was very good on it the other night and april asked that question, i mean, people, i can see it in people's faces. that they're worried. it isn't political b.s. >> one of the things that the president said today was when people are fed information that incites their hatred and fed false information, i think that's what you're seeing a lot today is that there's stoking up of this racial thing instead of

the calming rhetoric that would bring people together. the best speech obama gave before he became president, other than the one at the convention, was that wonderful st. louis speech, i think with the arch behind him, where he quoted dr. king as saying that the arch of american progress bends slowly but bends toward justice. that's what he was saying at the end of his press conference today. >> it was interesting the people -- i don't think they should fear -- lgbt people probably have made progress which is so strong as a trend that it's not going to be broken with a cycle. it's moving from i can't explain to my kids gay jokes 30 years ago are so out of place now. so unacceptable and comments that were made in conversation. that's all gone. >> real quickly, you have to remember that obama -- >> it's gone. >> -- was against gay marriage when he ran for president. >> that's a positioning, let's be honest. joe biden of all people, mr. joe with traditional values -- >> i'm saying times have changed

rapidly. >> my gay friends are very, very concerned and i've heard reports from a variety of people saying that they've actually experienced pushback like they haven't felt indecades. >> what kind? >> meaning that just overheard comments, one in a restaurant, which i hate to even say, but these people were talking and they said, oh, the good thing about trump is now we don't have to be nice to mexicans and gays anymore. that kind of thing. people feel like they can give voice to these comments and these feelings that we haven't heard in a long time. >> well -- >> so the concern is only the president can change that tenor and we hope he does. >> i think he will. i don't know if he will. i think he will. do you think he will say something on friday? two more days. that campaign, this is a free country, we're together. >> go back to the night he won, he sounded like someone who was red doi briady to bring the cou together. the issue is whether or not he

can keep that tone and whether or not he'll go on twitter the next day and start attacking african-american icon, whether or not he's going to start nominating another person who maybe had given money to organizations that believed in conversion therapy for homosexuals. i thchiink it's going to be acts and not words -- >> we're going to get to it later in the show -- i'm sorry. why did he go after khan, why did he go after a figure in our history, one we really look to, almost as if he's been gone 30 years, john lewis? he has that role in history. anyway, the president today also had a message about the press, itself. he said reporters weren't meant to be sycophants. look it up if you need to. p but to hold powerful people accountable. let's watch. >> america needs you and our democracy needs you. we need to you to establish a baseline of facts and evidence that we can use as a starting pi point for the kind of reason that informed debates that ultimately lead to progress. so my hope is you will continue

with the same tenacity that you showed us, to do the hard work of getting to the bottom of the stories and getting them right. and to push those of us in power to be the best version of ourselves. >> you know, i think trump, he knows the jungle rules. he knows how you can get people to fight each other. he knows how it works. you noticed the other day with cnn, said i'm not taking any questions from you people. the press should have stopped and said there would be no more questions until you answer that one. it was all man for himself. everyone else wanted their question answered. they didn't care if he'd stomped on one of them. that was a problem. wasn't it a problem? >> i do think it was a problem. i think it's a problem you can divide and conquer the media and i think one of the trihings abo d donald trump, he understands the media and understands how to manipulate people. it's going to be up to reporters to say you can't do this and we're not going to report just on tweets, we're going to demand

press conferences and if we don't do that, it's going it be a tough four years. >> the hardest thing to do, yamiche, avoid him when your ha his hand comes over to pat you on the head, you're okay, buzzfeed i like this week, cnn we don't like either, you know? >> he also used the word fake news, he said you're fake news, we're not going to talk to you. that's a very, very dangerous thing that he's doing right now by throwing that out there and making -- i don't know about you, i get a lot of mail and i'm now being, you know, labeled -- i'm fake news, they're not paying attention -- >> maybe some of the left will say he's a fake president. i mean, if you want to start playing that stupid game because it is a stupid game. >> people need to understand why the press is so important. as president, as the current president just said, it's essential to a free country. >> i love it when somebody says why don't you guys talk about something, they name a topic they like or are concerned about. i say where did you hear about it? i read about it in paper yesterday. you heard about it from the media and you're mad at the media for not telling you about

it. >> when i think about what i'm going to be doing, covering here on the hill, just moved here, i'm going to be trying to explain to people out in the country why i'm important and to do that i'm going to write stories about their lives and hopefully translate we're at an eliti elitist ma elitist place trying to tell you what to think. we can't assume people are going to read "the new york times," we have to give them something that's valuable. >> i read your review the other day, what you guys are going to do, find the people we're going to write to, write about them and find reporters who have a common experience. in other words, no more elitism. kathleen parker, yamiche alcindor and great alter isaacson. two days before the inaugural, donald trump is slamming the media and his opponents, he saysivisive behav. what's he going to do to bridge the gap in the country as he gets ready to take office?

democrats grill trump's cabinet nominees, al franken led the charge. senator franken is going to be with us tonight here. we have top reporters assigned to cover the white house. the trump white house. and all the challenges that will come with that job. we had some. they're on the "hardball" round table coming up tonight. finally let me finish with the president. i'm going to get serious here, the president we're about to lose, a fine man. this is "hardball," where the action is. when my doctor told me i have age-related macular degeneration, amd, he told me to look at this grid every day. and we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression, including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything.

bp gives its offshore teams 24/7 support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells every day. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. welcome back. well, chief among donald trump's campaign promises was to vow to create jobs, especially when it comes to the millions of working class americans who have been affected by the exodus of manufacturing from this country. additionally trump also promises to rebuild failing airports, roads and bridges in our cities. i'm joined by a guy who could use that help. boston mayor marty walsh, delivered the state of the city address just last month. mr. mayor, thank you. >> thanks. >> boston, one of our great cities. i just wonder isn't there something you can look forward to, even though you're a

democrat, to hear from trump? can trump deliver, will he deliver, rebuild our airports, rebuild our systems of the "t" up in booston? >> i would love to see infrastructure money come in, expansion of the communal rail. our city is growing every day. would love to get more people into our city, more companies into our city, more jobs into our city. having good dependable rail would work. >> how do you guys get him to do that, you big city mayors? you have real people with real votes who probably didn't vote for him. >> first of all, cities are economic engines so boston, new york, l.a., any city in america, chicago, they didn't vote for him but still you need him to be successful to move the country guar forward. that's one piece, you can't ignore those cities. the second piece, they keep talking about we haven't seen a plan on infrastructure yet. he talks about private/public partnerships. i'm not sure he's going to offer public money if we get private investment. those questions have to be answered to see about how they want to move the country forward. >> just talk about the fear of

the people in your city, a lot of my norties in your city, liberals, progressives. what's the mood about trump on this friday? >> our immigrant community is fearful. our kids in our schools are fearful. i think some people are concerned about women's rights. we have a march on saturday, 20,000 people marching in the city of boston. health care is a fair piece of it as well. a lot of uncertainty. he said a lot of things but hasn't necessarily backed them up since he said them as a candidate for president. i think a lot of people, not to be afraid of, what i'm trying to do is calm fears down saying we're a safe, open, progressive city that's open for everybody. >> let me ask about, you're a labor guy. i'm wondering if there's any possible deal that can be made. labor wants jobs, high-paying jobs. want davis bacon protections, labor rates, what they earned in the collective bargaining. do you think there's something there, something down the road

you wouldn't have expected until trump came along? >> one thing that concerns me there is mike pence. his state of indiana took workers' rights a s away. >> yeah, right to work state. >> he was that type of governor. now he's going to become vice president of the united states of america. so if i'm a union member or worker in this country, even non-union member working on davis/bacon, i'm a little concerned because they're going to look to potentially repeal it nationwide. that's what would concern me. >> yeah. i hope something happens we didn't expect, something good. i am an optimist. this sunday, 6:40 in foxborough stadium, massachusetts, 6 1/2 points -- not quite a touchdown for the patriots. >> my patriots are playing. i'm looking forward to it. >> have you ever seen a team more ferocious than the steelers, though? those guys are tough. >> listen, we have the best coach in the lead, the best order in the league, the best quarterback, the best defenses. it's a winning combination right

there. >> they are tough guys. >> i'm looking forward to the game. >> thank you, boston mayor. i want green bay against you guys, aaron rodgers against you guys. >> rematch of '96. >> rematch, but no quarterbaew . up next, donald trump has chosen to be a disrupter, let's face it, not a healer. he hasn't been a healer since winning the election even. is that going to change? is friday the time he actually says i'm not going to be actually belligerent up there on that west wing stage? or west front stage? would be nice. we'll see what happens. this is "hardball," where the action is. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services

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welcome back to "hardball." since becoming president-elect, donald trump has taken a path of belligerence versus healing on his road to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. few have been immune from twitter and verbal attack or counterattacks from the incoming commander in chief. including here's the list, the cast of the broadway show

"hamilton." "saturday night live." "the new york times." arnold schwarzenegger. meryl streep. boeing. lock heeheed martin. u.s. intelligence community. of course civil rights icon, john lewis. will trump's inaugural address, itself, finally begin the mending and unifying the country needs and wants after a contentious election and unusually dramatic presidential transition? steve cortez, trump supporter. frank bernie, a great columnist for "the new york times." do you have access to what trump has for his speech yet? >> i do not. if i did, i wouldn't share it, chris. >> that's honesty. let's talk about what you think. >> right. >> do you think he's going to be capable of something like some stunning magnanimity that everybody will say, god, he said that pretty well. >> you know, chris, i do. i expect he will. can't wait to be there in person for the celebration. it's not just celebration of trump, it's a celebration of america and democracy and i believe a return to growth. now, i'm not saying, though -- >> you think the republicans that celebrated the inauguration of barack obama?

>> yes. >> they celebrated it. >> celebrated in it terms of, certainly showing up. >> they met that week to decided how to screw him, make sure he never got anything done. >> donald trump is a fighter. he's not going to lose it, i think not in this inauguration, these celebrations, certainly not this administration. he's the best counterpuncher since floyd mayweather. >> will he tweet from the inaugural podium -- i can see him saying, i see somebody out there 100 yards away from me with that stupid sign. i can hear him do that. >> one of the reasons he won, a lot of americans who are sick of politicians who speak carefully and elegantly but say very little in the end. >> that's true. >> they want a fighter who's going to fight other countries, fight for them. >> i'm the only half full guy around here. i believe in the country, i believe in everything obama said this afternoon at that presser. you know, it's a good country,

better good than bad. it isn'the end of the world. we got to move, keep an eye on this guy every day. >> i'm with you. i believe in the country, too. i'm actually rooting for donald trump. i want to see donald trump take that inauguration stage, give an address that does unify the country or at least tries to, that is modest, that is restrained, that is realistic, that's responsible. the problem i have is whatever he says on that day, there's the day after, there's his twitter account. he came out, if you remember, and gave a victory speech back in early november, where he said, you know, i want to reach out to everyone. i want the support of the people who didn't vote for me. >> yeah. >> then in short order began gloating, bullying, taunting, back to his old twitter ways. the question is, how does he behave in each of the days that follow inauguration day? >> some days i wonder if you go up there and sing what's new, pussy cat, up on the stage, that supporters would still be with him and -- here's the question, why doesn't he pui pick his --

does he go after kazr khan, lost his son fighting for our country. hi why did he go after john lewis? an older guy. like a batter, don't swing at every pitch. why does he swing at every pitch? he's your guy. explain. >> i will not defend the fact that at times he is not, in my opinion, not careful enough -- >> can he let something go? >> again, i think this is important, too, what he is doing, you know, he's so pugnacious, okay, and sometimes i think a little overly so, but the reason the people rallied to his fierceness is because we have a rigged crony system right now, which works very well for people over in davos, works very well for washington, d.c. it's not working for dayton, it's not working for waco, texas. >> you have a good point there, you didn't say it right, both partiehave call time rooms over on capitol hill. you know what these young mbers of congress do in their

first and second terms? go there in the morning, a bus that takes them to vote on the floor. all day long calling up people who want something from the government, have special causes. they're not regular people. the system is corrupt that way. he's right. he didn't talk about that. he talks about davos. >> you used the phrase counterpunching. even you said swinging at things. >> yeah. >> i think it's important to note, it's in the always reactive with donald trump. some of the most horrifying tweets are the most curious ones, ones that weren't reactive to anything. why did he send out that new year's tweet? gloating and taunting anyone who didn't believe that he'd win and saying love at the end. you know, why did -- >> sarcastic. >> why did he feel the need to tweet that arnold schwarzenegger's ratings were below his? >> why did he do that? didn't he pick him for that job? >> that one i don't know why he did it. >> i know why. schwarzenegger backed kasich. >> sure. i think also, by way, it was an incredibly ineffective governor of california. but listen, i think that's

important, at times he picks battles he doesn't need to engage in. it's important that he is bat lg battling. part of why he won and why he'll be a successful president. he's going to battle a crony system on behalf of american workers who haven't had a pay raise in this century. >> he's got to pick battles. >> the late -- once said, we lost, what a great actor, he said, we'll see. we'll see. anyway, thank you, steve cortes, thank you, frank. read you all the time. twice a week. what days are you on? >> wednesday, sunday. up next, senate democrats are sharply challenging several of donald trump's cabinet picks. when we come back, one of the senators leading that fight, minnesota's al franken. he's a hard get for us. he's here. he says he'll come again. "hardball," where the action is. . that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. george h.w. bush remains in intensive care at a houston hospital where he's being treated for pneumonia and shortness of breath. the former president who is 92 is said to be resting comfortably after a procedure to clear his airway. meanwhile, his wife barbara bush is also in the hospital suffering from fatigue and coughing. and president-elect trump is in washington, d.c., tonight. he is at the capitol to attend preinaugural celebrations and a dinner honoring mike pence. back to "hardbal" welcome back to "hardball." on friday donald trump will take the oath of office and become

the 45th president of the united states. right now it's look like he could be a little loney. lonely, set to take office without most of his cabinet in place. this is the longest it's taken since george herbert walker bush in '89 to get the cabinet through. today four of his nominees faced a slew of questions from similarities on both sides of the aisle. first up, scott pruitt at the epa. >> he's put somebody in place who's actually defunded or led to the defunding or the environmental protection unit within your own agency yet you joined in a dozen or more lawsuits over the last six years ever since you've been attorney general. >> simply as a matter of appearance and morality for that matter, you were able to do it. why not the president? >> i'm not familiar enough, senator, with the exactitudes of his holdings to have any judgment as to how easy or hard it would be.

>> would you support moving the embassy from tel aviv into that consulate? >> absolutely. not only is that what israel wants but this congress has also said that that's what they support. >> you guys want to end the expansion of medicaid. that has people in minnesota scared out of their mind. >> the concerns that were expressed by the senator are valid concerns. the conclusions that he drew on the policies that i promoted and will continue to promote are absolutely incorrect. >> last night trump's nominee for education secretary, billionaire megadonor betsy devos faced suspicious democrats who took her to task on a range of issues from guns in schools to sexual assaults on college campus. joining me, minnesota democratic senator al franken. serves on the het, education, labor and pensions committee that heard from tom price and betsy devos. senator, thank you for coming on. >> great to see it you. >> issues we can talk about, violence in school, guns in school, guns anywhere a schoolyard and also title 9.

the president was great on title 9 saying it's the reason we win olympics, reason we're the country we are. women as full as they have in history a chance to be themselves in every sphere. now, let's start with gun. what does this woman, devos, think about guns in the schoolyard? >> well, i didn't like her answer on that. chris murphy, of course, from connecticut, who represents the people of sandy hook asked her about this. i think the president wants to get rid of gun-free schools and he asked her about that and her answer was not satisfactory and, frankly, very few of her answers were -- showed any kind of real grasp of education policy. >> does she understand title 9 and all its implications? >> i don't know. i don't remember her being asked

about that. i remember once we had a hearing on title 9 and billie jean king came and when she was in college, i think it was with stan smith, a full scholarship, i think usc or somewhere in california, he had a full scholarship as a tennis player and she had to work in the gym and fold towels. title 9 has changed all that. i don't know if she -- she kind of didn't know much about education policy at all and what she does know is about defunding public schools through vouchers. i'm not going to vote for her. >> good for you. let me ask you, that's news -- by the way, my wife played the national championship team, tennis team at stanford and she had to pay her way on away games, okay? that's how things were different back then. the guys got on the bus, the guys got on the plane. the women players on a national championship team had to pay their way. anyway, here's some of the

fireworks from last night's confirmation hearing for a millionaire donor, nominee of secretary of education you've been mentioning, betsy devos. let's watch. >> you can't see definitively today that guns shouldn't be in schools? >> i will refer back to senator enzi and the school that he was talking about in wapotee, wyoming. i would imagine that there's probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies. >> my question is, i don't mean to be rude, but do you think if you were not a multibillionaire, if your family has not made hundreds of millions of dollars of contributions to the republican party, that you would be sitting here today? >> senator, as a matter of fact, i do think that there would be that possibility. >> i'm talking about the debate between proficiency and growth. >> yes. >> what your thoughts are on that. >> well, i was just asking to clarify then -- >> well, this is a subject that has been debated in the

education community for years. it surprises me that you don't know this issue. >> senator franken, you knew she didn't know the issue, didn't you? when you asked the question. i'm just thinking that you were ready. she didn't know the difference between comparing one school to another and comparing one class with what it was when it came into school in first grade and how well they're doing in terms of growth as opposed to how really a neighborhood, which is tough, against a school where there's some wealthy suburban kids, parents have been reading to them since they were 2 years old. is that what the difference is? >> well, she -- i had a courtesy visit with her and i was kind of shocked at how little she knew about school education policy. this difference between proficiency and growth is just a basic argument we've been having in schools. proficiency is judging kids against this artificial line of proficiency, and the problem with that is the kids just above and just below get all the

attention from the teachers because the teachers are judged by how many kids are above proficiency and they end up ignoring the kid up there because no matter what you do, that kid's not going to fall below proficiency, the kid down here is not going to get to proficiency. >> good thought. >> with growth, if you have a fifth grade teacher who takes a kid from a second grade level of reading to a fourth grade level of reading, that teacher's a hero. and under growth, that gets measured, but under proficiency, it doesn't. and this is something that is basic to how you assess how a school is doing. and if you're talking about taking money out of our public schools and doing vouchers, it's really important to assess how schools are doing. she didn't know any -- she doesn't have a clue what i was even talking about. >> what role -- the unions, nea, ft play? they don't like vouchers and charters generally. how much does that influence your vote on this?

>> i kind of missed that a little bit. you're talking about teachers union? >> yeah, all the people in the unions, they can't stand her as a nominee. how much of an effect is that having politically on her chance of getting confirmed? >> they don't like her as a nominee because she wants it really defund public schools, take that money to go to private schools and to religious schools where very often, in indiana they did this, a lot of the kids that were in those religious schools who got the money from the vouchers had just been in a religious school, anyway. so this money is leaving the public school system. that's why they don't like that. we have charter schools, public charter schools, in minnesota. some are very successful. some not so. i have nothing against that, but this is about taking money from public schools and sending it over so that kids who are already going to private or

religious schools are just getting money that's being taken away from our public schools and i'm against that. >> okay. i know where you stand, sir. thank you, senator al franken. please come back again. up next -- >> i will. >> -- donald trump's war on the press. we got a special edition of the "hardball" roundtable coming up next. four reporters charged with a challenging job of covering trump. the trump white house. they just got the job. let's see how they're going to do it. you're watching "hardball," where the action is.

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welcome back to "hardball." president-elect trump who has a well-documented tendency to exaggerate or use truthful hyperbole, as he once called it, to shade the facts when it suits his interest. the challenge for reporters, of course, those who cover him in the white house, is to untangle the truth from the spin. well, "washington post" media columnist margaret sullivan describes what she calls a hellscape of lies and distorted reality that awaits journalists saying "he will pull out all the

stops to make people think they should believe him, not their own eyes." a crgroucho marks reference. hallie jackson, named nbc's new white house correspondent. congratulations madam corresponde correspondent. you got the most interesting knob in tjob in the world. the hill is going to be just as exciting. what are challenges reporters have facing, an in your face approach to trump, to the person he sees in front of him when a tough question comes? >> yeah, so i think there's a couple of interesting challenges here, chris, and a point that i think is going to be essential for reporters to understand as we turn the corner now, starting monday, and covering him at the white house. the phone, of course, ringing here on the senate booth which is where we are today given all these confirmation hearings are happening. i think margaret sullivan's quote you cited is particularly interesting, a hellscape. reporters have had to distinguish what is fact and fiction. now what donald trump likes to call fake news, right, his sort of change, the meaning of this, has changed in his view.

he's taken it to mean something else. point number one is, this plays well with those people, many of the folks, who elected donald trump into office. right? they don't trust the media to begin with and so when donald trump points at a reporter and says you are fake news, that resonates with some folks regardless of how factually correct it is or not. so i think that reporters in that briefing room and as they've done on the campaign trail need to be pretty unflinching in pressing the president-elect, soon to be president, on where that line is. right? point number two, though, anybody who sits here and says that, well, when donald trump takes that podium in the brady briefing room for his first press conference or the east room, wherever, he's going to be more presidential has not been looking at history. right? you know that i've been on the campaign trail for 18 months. people said that about donald trump, never-trumpb folks i covered, when we get into the primary debates it's going to be different, when it gets into the general, he's going t be

different, the transition as president-elect, it's going to be different. he's not going to be different as president. the white house press corps should be prepared for that. >> congratulations, hallie jackson, covering for nbc, and i hope msnbc, the white house. now to the roundtable, joined by three new white house correspondents, eli, a friend of the show here, will be covering the trump white house for politico. jenna johnson with the "washington post." and glen, a well-known name with "the new york times." thank you, all. i guess the question is how do you keep it from getting personal? katy tur -- trump's been bashing her personally and she just takes it and moves on. how do you do that? >> that's your job. we've had two years of practice with donald trump. it's going to be maybe more adversarial than it's been with other press corps and other presidents. that's just the nature of the job. i think we're all prepared for hat. i think you have to be careful because having conversations like this, really important, you know, when you degrade and delegitimize the news and facts and journalism generally, you're jeopardizing one of the pillars of democracy, that's an important conversation to have. even if you feel hike you're li

anistential crisis, you do our job. the more you sit here and make it about ourselves as journalists, it starts to sort of play into what people alre y already, you know, don't like about the press. can't be too much self-regard and all. >> i know. they're all ivy leaguers, they look down on us. a lot of reporting, i used to ride around the bus with you guys and i'd have an opinion column i could write and i'd be watching people do long front-page stories that go into a big jump, incredibly reported. i'd say, how did you do that? i was watching your hands. how did you do that? you got to get what he said, got to get it accurately, get it recorded generally. yet if trump says it doesn't matter, you're not supposed to quote me, i mean, a lot of the trump people say you're being unfair if you simply quote trump saying what he said. how do you deal with that? >> you kn're not going to make everyone happy. every story i write, there are liberals who feel like i normalized trump. there are trump supporters --

>> by quoting -- >> yes, by quoting him. trump supporters who think that by quoting him, i've been unfair and taken him out of context. >> you're snarky. >> yeah. >> you have to focus on what he says, put it in the context of other things he said. just keep very, very focused on what he says and how that compares to what he's done in the past and going forward, how does it match with actions that he actually takes? >> is he susceptible, glen, to actually representing in news print, i mean, the trump phenomenon -- i'm serious about it, he's cosmically so different. he picks fights with everybody. his 40%-some of the country is with him. i looked at the stats the other day. white working class guys, they like this transition. how can you like the transition? it's been chaotic. how do you bring him into a newspaper, say this is donald trump, i'm writing about -- this is really the guy. >> here's how you have to understand this. we're viewing this as we spr to as eli said, and i agree with you, 100%.

we can't take every bit of bait this guy says and can't whine about it either. we have a political foil for this guy. we have a fundamental part of his strategy. hillary clinton is gone. barack obama is leaving the stage. chuck schumer isn't that much fun to beat up. what he's got is us. >> yeah. >> this is a guy, by the way -- >> you're the stage. >> 37% to 41% approval rating right now. his political success has always been about driving his enemies' numbers down. you can't get much lower numerically than we are already so i think fundamentally, his entire strategy as president right now is to go after us. >> the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these people tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball" where the action is.

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. well, here's another big name who's skipping donald trump's inauguration. secretary of state john kerry, the former senator and 2004 democratic nominee for president didn't give a reason for why he won't be attending on friday. we'll be right back. they're everywhere. and as a marriot rewards member, i can embrace them all. the new marriott portfolio of hotels now has 30 brands in over 110 countries. so no matter where you go, you are here. join or link accounts at members.marriott.com. at angie's list, we believe there are certain things you can count on, like a tired dog is a good dog. [ dog barking, crashing ] so when you need a dog walker or a handyman,

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bp engineers use underwater robots, so they can keep watch over operations below the sea, even from thousands of feet above. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. we're back with the "hardball" round table. eli, tell me something i don't know. >> only two days left in the transition. donald trump has yet to name his last cabinet appointee, a.g. secretary. ahbel maldonado, one of the guys from california was at the trump hotel tweeting videos of how nice it is. if only flattery got you somewhere for donald trump. the fog, the uncertainty, not

just to the media, the people groveling for jobs in his administration don't know where they stand. >> donald trump loves crowds. inauguration is coming up and he is spending money on advertising. trying to get people to sign up for free tickets to come to inauguration. >> to fill the seats? >> to fill the seats. >> the book everyone is reading to understand trump is the great investigative reporter wayne barret's biography of trump 20 years ago. it's as fresh as it was when it was first published and a must read for anybody who wants to understand the new president. >> a permanent take on the new president. thank you. when we return, let me finish with the president we are about to lose.

impressive linda. it seems age isn't slowing you down. but your immune system weakens as you get older increasing the risk for me, the shingles virus. i've been lurking inside you since you had chickenpox. i could surface anytime as a painful, blistering rash. one in three people get me in their lifetime, linda. will it be you? and that's why linda got me zostavax, a single shot vaccine. i'm working to boost linda's immune system to help protect her against you, shingles. zostavax is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults fifty years of age and older. zostavax does not protect everyone and cannot be used to treat shingles or the nerve pain that may follow it. you should not get zostavax if you are allergic to gelatin or neomycin, have a weakened immune system or take high doses of steroids are pregnant or plan to become pregnant. the most common side effects include redness, pain, itching, swelling, hard lump warmth or bruising at the injection site and headache.

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let me finish tonight with the american president we're about to lose. barack obama is, above all, a fine man. just look at him. is there a husband, a father that we would wish more as a model for our sons, for our sons-in-law to have and raise our grandchildren? is there anyone who carries himself better in word, sentiment temperament optimism? hope was the word on that poster, the feeling he exemplified in his last press briefing. he talkeds about being proud of raising patriotic daughters, people being more good than bad, that at his core he believes we can be okay. the only thing is the end of the world is the end of the world. this is the president who even

though he knows who's going to take his place at noon. he spoke not just as a political leader but as a man looking to the problems that still divide us, he said we need to imagine being the other person, growing up in the inner city without a job within 20 miles, being the guy stuck out in the country who, too, doesn't have the prospect of a job in some different 20 miles. he talked about imagining being in the other guy's skin and that's when we'll make progress. he's not leaving us before saying that we have made progress. he came to office when we were divided by an unpopular war, crushed by a great recession with unemployment heading to 10%. he's leaving us having cut that rate in half and tripled, by the way, the stock market, and by the way, a lesson hopefully learned of no more wars like iraq. he came in with decades of unfulfilled promises for health care in this country from both parties and met the promise with a program the incoming president has made clear he needs to match or better. he came into a country where marriage equality was over the horizon and brought the lgbt community into the sunlight of recognition, freedom even because of his own fine good

will, admiration. to say that no person can make a difference, i give you the fine case of that fine man, barack obama. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris says starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i would imagine that there's probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies. >> these are the people who will run your government. >> why is the climate changing? i'm asking your personal opinion. >> my personal opinion is immaterial. >> really? >> tonight, democrats grill trump's nominees. what we're learning and why it really matters. plus, the man donald trump tapped to dismantle obamacare goes on the hot seat. >> i'm offended by the insinuation senator. >> you may be offended, but here's what you did. >> what we're learning about his possible stock scandal. and as president o