trafficking. and tyke two for the launch air force satellite. the initial launch for last night was scrubbed due to technical issues. once in orbit, the space satellite system will provide i satellite system will provide critical warnings on incoming missiles. that is it for me. "morning joe" starts live from the dubliner in washington right now. ♪ >> so this journey began 18 months ago. i had something to do with it, but you had much more to do with it than i did. i'm the messger. i'm just the messenger. we are going to do things that haven't been done for our country for many, many decades. it's going to change. i promise you, it's going to

change. >> good morning. it is friday, january 20th. inauguration day. at noon today, donald j. trump becomes president of the united states. >> for some, it is a day of celebration as their candidate takes on office to deliver the political and economic change that they have been demanding. >> for some it's a day of symbolism for our power the peaceful transfer of power that is the bedrock of our nation. >> for others a day of apprehension and a day of protest. for us, it's another excuse to come back to the dubliner and starting drinking guinness at 5:30 a.m. >> great crowd. i swear, we are covering the story, we really are. >> we are just blocks from where donald trump will be sworn in as the 45th commander in chief and we are hacked in a room full of

drinks. >> democrats and republicans and did a poll and we are like half and half here. >> david ignatius, you started drinking guinness at 3:30 this morning. how are you? >> it's a day long plan and great to start at the dubliner. >> incoming counselor to the president kellyanne conway on the set in the bar. the democratic leaders of both the house and senate will be here at the dubliner. congresswoman nancy pelosi and senator chuck schumer. we have many, many more. with us on set along with willie, joe, and me, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. you saw columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius, along with joe, willie, and me. >> so, mika, and willie and mike, let's talk about this

moment for a second. it is okay to say that we find it surreal that this day has come because donald trump even caught himself throughout the campaign saying, can you believe i'm ahead? i think everybody, including donald trump, were shocked on lex night he had actually pulled this upset on. here we are. donald trump the 45th president of the united states of america. >> you heard donald trump it's been 18 months. go back as he came down that escalator at trump tower. so many people it was a joke. he talked about it so many times before and people thought it was a publicity stunt. as he came up in the polls and getting 30,000 person crowds in

mobile, alabama and started winning debates and elections and primaries and took the nomination and then the election. it became clear we were dealing with something we have never seen before and i think the speech today, in keeping with that, will be like nothing we have seen before. i'll be interested to see if he tries to bring together a divided nation. >> hopeful. >> or is fhe is just more of donald trump we have seen the last year and a half. >> mike, this was at the end of the day, donald trump is right. it wasn't about him. it was about an angry country that felt like they had been forgotten, they had been left behind. elites looked down to him for years. this was staten island saying enough to manhattan. this was northwest florida saying enough to palm beach and broward county. this really was. this was forgotten america rising up and choosing donald trump as their vehicle.

>> sure. he was a vehicle in a clash of cultures between 50% of the country against the other 50% of the country. you have this big egotistical headline sprawling guy coming out of queens with ae chip on his shlder. he became very quickly because of how he behaved and what ed to represent, you know, the hopes and the angers and dreams among so many people. but all of that was basically new haven. it was taken the play and tryouts in new haven. this is the real deal today. >> let me ask you a question. you said this big arrogant guy. why is it that this, as you say, big, arrogant guy. >> i don't -- >> i know. but why did he become the voice of americans who were sick and tired of big arrogant guys like us and the media, like us in

politics? like us -- like us in manhattan and washington, d.c.? why did they choose him as the vehicle? >> because his vehicle was a set piece of elements easily toppled. >> right. >> everybody that he ran against, everybody on that initial stage, all of the republican candidates, that's all they had done throughout their lives. they were professional politici politicians. they represented the system that so many people felt abused them in the fall and winter of 2008 and 2009 and something no politician was able to put his pulse on. how many people lost so much, so quickly in those few short months of the economic collapse and nobody ever addressed it. >> robert costa, think of the branding that was involved. i use the word branding because he is a branding genius and his even make america great again, which started at the beginning of those hats, people laughed, but then again, remember the other candidates struggled to find a message.

even until the bitter end. yet, his message was so simple and it matched who he has been all his life. success. you're fired, you know? let's put this together and create some drama and let's find success. economic success. he symbolized that. whether or not you liked him or you laughed at him or you hated him, he had that brand down not just with those hats, but for the past 20 years. >> which word did he not ever mention that much? republican. we are inaugurating formally today a republican president but this is really a movement politician. a movementolitician whdi't always understand the movement he was leading and the last few conversations i've had with the president-elect he has really talked about this theme that he believes in his gut that he represents a group of republicans and democrats and independents. and the question for him in the coming 100 days in the first year he has this movement. he did win the election but what did can he do with this movement for an agenda? can he keep it together in a

town so based on bipartisanship. >> i had dinner with an ambassador, one of our closest allies. i kept pushing him. were you nervous about this statement? are you nervous about that statement? are you nervous about -- and he was -- it was like, ed it a lot like marco which was why don't we just wait until he becomes president of the united states? we are going to be fine. what he said is what i'm hearing from a lot of foreign leaders, again, the donald trump you hear on tv or is speaking to the times of london is not the donald trump who has been on the phone for an hour with their leader. he apparently has been on the phone calling a lot of leaders who actually like the attention he is giving now. >> there is high anxiety around the world, joe, as people look at this man about to become president who has expressed ideas that are really startling. he has called nato obsolete and

called the european basically a dead letter and if you're from one of those countries, you're going, wow. what is next? people are trying to be as calm and as measured as they can be. they are talking to trump's his people and hearing big ideas. donald trump and his top advisers have been expressing to our european allies around the world big ideas about solving problems, about redrawing the basic terms of trade. so people are listening. they want to wait and see. but what i hear, joe, behind those calm things you were hearing last night is a lot of concern about where america is going now. >> so before we get to that, let's talk about what is happening today and lay it out for you. because in just a few hours, donald j. trump, a 70-year-old real estate developer born in queens, new y will become the 45th president of the united states and marking the presidential inauguration in

american history. at 11:30 this morning supreme court justice clarence thomas swears in vice president-elect mike pence. chief justice roberts will have the oath on noon. trump will place his hand on two bibles. one given to him by his mother when he was 9 and one was the lincoln bible. the lincoln bible was not used for the transfer of power until barack obama in 2009 and 2013. donald trump will then deliver his inaugural address. the speech is believed to rest more on his philosophy and stressing his philosophy for the america. aides said the speech will be 20 minutes long and among the topics is outsourcing and infrastructure and immigration and education and american manufacturing.

afterward, the two will lead an inaugural parade with approximately 8,000 participants from the capitol down pennsylvania avenue. >> willie, i was looking last night at past inaugural addresses and i have a new favorite one. calvin coolidge, silent cal and just gotten word that hardy had died and he was asked to give his inaugural address and it was this in its totallity. i think i can swing it. that was it! that was it! but i'm reminded also, looking back through all of these addresses of eight years ago, barack obama, and when we were sitting here, the extraordinary hopes that a lot of people in this bar had for president obama that you felt all over the city, that you -- and, at the time, i was worried that they were unrealistic hopes and they ended up being unrealistic hopes.

but as he leaves office, he looefs qui leaves quite a legacy behind. >> i was thinking of that when we came in here. you like to see old pictures to see how we hold up eight years later. >> they don't. >> we were sitting here in a moment of true history. the first african-american president. this morning, we sit here in a moment of history that is very different. a guy who has no history in politics, a guy who was well-known to the country for 30 years as this businessman and a celebrity tv host. so this is a historic moment and always as is an inauguration. president obama came in in a poll with a 79% approval rating that day. donald trump by that same poll is 40%. so it's a very different moment for a very different president. so donald trump, i think, although he won the election, he lost the popular vote there. and he comes in unpopular. that is just true.

the nbc poll has him at 38%. he is going to have to say or do something today, i think to unify the country a little bit around his presidency and something he has not been prone to doing the last year and a half. >> i am hopeful that he does. >> the thing is, mika, this has been his entire political life, where he started when he ran as a republican. he was at 1%. he was at 2%. he could never get boof 5% and never get above 10%. never 20. never 30. and it's not surprising that he starts his presidency the same way he started his campaign. >> yeah. and everything is different this time around. we were talking to people yesterday and i said every time you laugh at donald trump, you've lost because he will find a way to win. and if we haven't learned that

lesson at this point, i would think maybe you need to go back to school. >> the media need to learn that lesson too. the media is still trying to figure out how to handle it. you look at the story, for instance, yesterday, on rick perry saying that he didn't even know that -- didn't even know that nukes were under his per view when his statement the day he got it was, actually, focused on that. and the tremendous responsibility there. that is happening more and more. martin luther king jr. iii having a speech shouted to him instead of a question. the press is overreaching. they are repeating the same mistakes. they need to get back to the brass tacks of just reporting the facts. >> this is the day to do it. >> we have to do that and we have to cover the country rather than cover the candidate himself or now the president. we didn't do a good job of that. >> we also have to cover the country instead of covering yourself. if i see one more self-righteous

list of things for reporters to do, every time i see one of these stupid articles saying reporters, here are the seven things you should do and here are -- and somebody -- i got a suggestion for you. >> it's very early! sshh! >> hold on. get your paper out. >> a little short. >> here is what you do. it's easy. do your job. report the facts. give them to the american people. >> and many are. >> give context. tell the entire story. not the story that you want to tell or your editors want to tell. give the people the facts. they are smart enough to figure it out themselves. that's not happening, mike. >> that was good. >> you can simplify it. i think david and robert might agree with me because they both do this. leave the office.

stop googling things and stop staring at yuyourself. >> that would be good instead of twitter. >> we caught reporting. i do think, joe, we need to do our reporting. we need to listen to what this new administration says. but we also need to hold them accountable. i don't think that our readers -- i work for my reared and i don't think my readers would be happy if i just was taking notes, that kind of reporting. they want me and robert and all of us to hold this new administration accountable as we held president obama accountable. >> okay. you're exactly right. they want you to do that but they want you to tell the whole story. you're in a different position as far as people want you to draw your conclusions and explain to them exactly what is happening. on robert's side of the street, though, he is it this very well, it's get the facts. put the facts down.

take yourself out of the story. there was somebody that held an extraordinary important position in print media who brought their people together after hillary clinton lost and literally said, we did the best we could do. we tried and we failed. but we did the best we could do. >> people crying. >> there were people crying in this newsroom. i'm not going to say which newsroom it is. it was a very big newsroom. >> down to three papers! >> you're damn straight i am. that is the problem. >> i think it's okay if you're doing your job but we are not robots. >> willie and i, though, were talking about this with three weeks left in the campaign. it was almost like they were playing to history saying, we are the resistance and we want to tell our grandkids. >> there is that, right. >> we stood in the waive donald trump instead of reporting about donald trump. >> i think a lot of reporters thought that was a safe position

at that point because they thought hillary clinton was going to win and they would be on the right side of history the way they looked at it. i would add to the tips you all gave is not to condescend to the trump voters and not to mock people around nominees that trump suggest is because they once prayed for rain they shouldn't be secretary of agriculture among other things they do to try to help. don't mock everybody. >> know what the easiest thing to do? the easiest thing to do especially in print is make fun of people. >> what they do. >> you could do it 24/7. the harder thing to do is to think about what motivates people and what brings people to the rallies that you've attended? what interests them? why are they there? who arehey? >> be way, if you're in manhattan, take theerry over to staten island and spend a day there. you'll understand it a hell of a lot better than you do in manhattan retweeting snarky tweets.

if you're in washington drive down to southern virginia. >> it's not about soaking up america. that's crucial, i agree. if you're condescending, you're wasting time. if you're a reporter and you want to investigate president trump. this is a family and outsider coming in and a lot of business interests. investigate. condah sending is wasting your time. >> still ahead. live from the dubliner in washington, kellyanne conway joins us and congresswoman nancy pelosi and senator chuck schumer and ahead senators joni ernst and al franken and senator rand paul and senator john thune. >> now to the great bill karins. >> how about some sunshine? >> how about a brief period of rain during the ceremony? rain is moving into virginia.

this is the rain that is going to move through the capitol as we go through about the 10:00 a.m. to about 2:00 p.m. it's going to be brief and not that heavy. just timing of it may be incredible poor. 9:00 a.m., just fine there. by the time we get to 11:00 a.m., 12:00 a.m., the ceremony and not heavy but over the top of washington, d.c. then we have the parade which starts at 3:00. then the rain is completely gone so good news for the parade. here is the forecast. the good news with all of this it's mild. at least in the 40s. could be worse. this is the middle of january. 46 today and light rain and cloudy and mild and for the parade 47 and dry. we need to tell everybody about in the southeast a dangerous weekend. severe weather as we go throughout today, saturday and sunday and possibility of tornadoes for our friends in alabama, mississippi, georgia, and florida. we will watch that all weekend long. as of now, we are watching that rain approaching washington, d.c. later on this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we be back live from the dubliner after this.

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there's no cbs and we don't have a ton of sports. anywhere, any... let's lose the 'anywhere, anytime' too. you can't download on-the-go, there's no dvr, yada yada yada. stream some stuff! somewhere! sometimes! you totally nailed that buddy. simple. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. only xfinity gives you more to stream to any screen. if confirmed, my desire is to lead this agency in a thoughtful manner surrounding myself with the expertise on the core functions of the department. my past statements made over five years ago about abolishing the department of energy do not reflect my current thinking. in fact, after being briefed on so many of the vital functions of the department of energy, i regret recommending its elimination. >> governor.

>> senator. >> thank you so much for coming into my office. did you enjoy meeting me? >> i hope you're as much fun on that diet as you were on your couch. >> well. >> may i rephrase that, sir? >> please! please! please! oh, my lord! oh, my lord. >> well, i think we found our "saturday night live" sound bite! >> he is very likeable. >> a rip. >> yes, a really nice guy and his wife is even nicer. >> i got to say about rick perry, i don't think -- >> that was great. they have good chemistry. >> i think i have ever gutted a pre shal candidate more than i

did than rick perry in 2008 and somebody said you're going to be on a panel. i said, no, you better tell him because he and his wife. i went and saw him and he put his arm around me. mr. joe, how are you doing? i said, listen. i was a little tough. he goes, don't worry about it. he gets it. i got to say, though, somebody else in there, al franken, i think, along with bernie sanders. >> yeah. >> they have really, really come to the forefront of the democrats. >> keep your eyes open for al franken the next four years. just watch him. i think he has found -- at first, i think he was uncomfortable bringing his comedic past in the psent and stated that to me at one point years ago. ed, i've been through the dehumanizer of washington and i'll find my humility back. >> we saw that this morning at

the dnc. >> right. >> far more comfortable being the funny guy and likeable guy that he is. >> that was great. joining us is "the new york times" reporter ameesh and kasie hunt and katy tur and along with willie, joe and me. >> katy, a long and winding road. >> a long strange trip it's been. i heard willie talking about donald trump's run-up and nobody took him serious in the beginning and i think i'm a great example of that because i was assigned his campaign early on without having any political experience coming from london as a foreign correspondent. we have a team of really talented correspondents and here is a field of candidates. we believe jeb bush is going to be a big player and scott walker is a big player and watch out to ted cruz and marco rubio so make

a showing. those are the ones that were, you know -- that were the big watch. when i came in and donald trump started to make some noise, it was like, put katy on him and it will be six weeks, probably. you could tell even from the beginning and i'm kind of a broken record on this. the crowds really large and when he went after john mccain and that was not a big deal in the voters' eyes, that to me signaled that this man was going to break rules and he was going to be able to break rules and continue to do so. he did. while it's surprising he was able to make it as far as he did and get to the white house and be the 45th president of the united states, the enthusiasm and excitement for him for something completely different and for someone that was going to blow things up was pretty apparent from the beginning. >> i almost forgot about the mccain moment but that was a signal of something very

different going on here and torpedoed so many other presidential campaigns but he is saying something you're not allowed to say and going after this incredibly respected figure and never backing down or apologizing. >> he would do it week after week. it was the mexicans. megle kelly, it was fox news. i remember after the south carolina debate, my head was spinning. george w. bush was the blame for 9/11. all of these things. planned parenthood. all of these things that would have destroyed any other republican candidate, the voters on like, i like him any way. >> there really was kind after slowness to pick up on it. i covered jeb bush's announcement which was the day before donald trump's and trump's was almost treated as an afterthought. we are going to go and see the show and not necessarily going to take it -- >> a side show. >> -- quite as seriously as the announcements we covered the day before.

there were so many people who were at these little tiny events in iowa and other places. me included. who just were not as quick to pick up on the crowds he was getting in places like iowa and the sheer difference in energy level. what we saw initially, it happened again against hillary clinton and people still didn't see it even then. >> you said the word "show." i think "show" is one of the things that got him and people didn't take him as seriously as other people. i think voters didn't take him as seriously. he would get into fights. i'm thinking about the fact that he had a back and forth with the pope and this idea that -- >> that's right! >> the pope! >> oh, my gosh. >> you forget! the pope! >> it's donald trump, he'll get over it. i think that to me is what is really remarkable about that you can argue with the pope or service members. >> clarified what he meant. it wasn't just donald trump got into a fight with the pope. everything has gotten into a fight with has had to come out and either clarify or supplement

or do something in response. >> in the past there would have been an apology and those moments were symbolic of the rger tng with donald trump was that unapologetic and spoke his mind and different animal than what we had had ever seen in politics for better or worse. >> and he was bigger than everybody on the stage in every way and that is was people wanted. there is this incredible moment at the iowa state fair that halpern and heilemann told us about on set, and said they were all following hillary clinton around in a scrum. >> she had ropes around her and you had to get there. >> 200 people and wherever hillary went, everybody went and she was the center of the political universe. and they said suddenly, you heard this sound. you heard a helicopter coming. and everybody, including the secret service, looked up and there was that helicopter and

heilemann said everybody just whispered, trump. said it was like out of a movie! that this guy -- the perfect metaphor for the entire campaign! everybody was scrambling and fighting on the ground. here this guy was helicoptering over everybody else playing by his own rules. >> i was there for that. there was a fence where he landed the helicopter across from the fence. he had a bunch of little kids ran up. he took the kids on on the helicopter ride and played it the next day on the show. the helicopter landing! and he knew exactly what he was doing and i remember chasing him in a golf cart through into this enormous crowd and he sort of is following -- katy knows this very well. he'll follow the people he knows through the crowd. he saw where i was. i put my cameraman on top of a ladder and he walks through this massive crowd, sees me and looks at my camera and points at it and keeps going. that is donald trump. >> he enjoyed it every step of the way for the most part.

there were a couple of bumps but the guy never lost the joy along the way. we have got to go to break. >> i want to ask ame, sh about the protest today. you're going to be covering that? >> a lot of protests and different issues. immigration rights people there and black lives matter protesters and jeh johnson said they are trying to keep the protesters away from the dond trump supporters. but i think it's going to be a pretty hectic day and, myself, i'm trying to be as safe as possible because there are some plans possibly of them trying to block the entrances to places to get into. it will be interesting to see what happens. >> it does look like evan thomas. >> did they put the wrong

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wake up, you look at your phone at 6:00 in the morning and you see a tweet from donald trump and you go, oh, my gosh, i can't believe he sent that out? have you suggested to him maybe to dial back the tweeting and when he is president, do you think he'll continue the way he has been tweeting since the campaign started? >> so donald trump's social media platforms are a powerful way for him to connect to people and sometimes what he tweets gets twisted into unrecognizable fashion. we have all experienced that. people take a snippet or a headline and really bastardize it and i know it's good for ratings but it doesn't help fulfill the duty we all have to perform america. >> do you think he takes criticism from "snl." >> he doesn't answer every criticism. believe me, this man does not.

>> does he engage pop culture like he does now? >> possibly. >> when with he is president of the united states? >> possibly engage pop culture but he rarely draws first blood. why was it okay for president obama, every thought it was a wonderful idea he would engage pop culture on his own terms and if donald trump does it a little bit different through social media platforms every fames shock and dismay? >> wow. >> there are a lot of people national security people worried about his twitter account because if somebody hacked into it and made a pronouncement that donald trump is going to do it would be trouble. every indication he is going to continue as he is as you heard from kellyanne conway. he is going to be who he is and anybody who thought there is going to be a pivot, remember a pivot to the general election and now a pivot to the presidency he is going to be who he is. >> you remember barack obama, they had to fight to get the blackberry away from him and

finally got him another blackberry but when he tweeted something out, he would tweet it, give it to his staff, pass it around. >> right. >> they would figure out whether it should go out or not. weigh it. debate it. revise it. >> but that's not atweet! donald trump, when he feels something, he just says it. >> well, he doesn't have to do that all the time. >> but that is what he does. >> he does now have a secure phone so he doesn't apparently have that phone number he's had where anybody could call him and he would answer immediately. he has a new number but i'm sure he'll be distributing that out to everybody who wants it. >> we shall see. >> up next is senators joni ernst and tom cotton join our conversation and michael mcfall will be here from the dubliner when "morning joe" comes right back.

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♪ come on into the bar. why don't you? the tap is open. and everyone is drinking. joining us now is member of the armed services committee who served as lieutenant colonel in the u.s. national guard, senator joni ernst of iowa and remember of the select armed intelligence and armed services committee senator tom cotton of arkansas and did a little service himself and director of the institute for international studies at stanford university and former ambassador to russia, michael paul. >> this is a good time to talk about russia but, first, we need to talk about joni ernst. she is not happy, tom cotton. >> why is she not happy. >> like i felt when alabama didn't win the national championship. that's what we do, win the

national championship. is yis joni upset this morning? >> we are excited in the south to have sonny perdue to have the secretary of agriculture. >> joni wants one from the midwest! >> i understand. >> i love it. we have great agriculture in the midwest. >> absolutely right. >> we are looking forward to vetting sonny perdue. i am excited to meet him and i'm going to go quizzing him. >> the vetting this sound tough. she is going to ask big ten football history to sonny. >> exactly. i know a little something about agriculture. >> so the cloud hanging over donald trump as he becomes president of the united states, especially when it comes to foreign policy, has to do with russia and a lot of unanswered questions but a lot of unanswered questions, senator, about how the russians hacked us in the first place. you got on to the obama administration back in the early spring. >> yeah. i mean, it's good to see the

democrats have discovered their inner cold war. putin thought they were behind in halftime and making ground for 17 years and russia and vladimir putin are not our friend and a long time we need to draw more boundary and take a tougher approach toward them. >> on the morning of donald trump's inauguration, there are new reports that allege the fbi, aid by the nsa and cia and treasury department, are reviewing intercepted communications and financial transactions between russian officials and associates of the trump campaign. "the new york times" released the report citing anonymous sources saying the investigation centers in part on trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort who has done business in ukraine and russia and had contacts under abroad that were under surveillance by the national security agency for suspected links to russia's federal security service. the successor of the kgb.

last night,manafort denied the reports. the report says the ties of two other trump campaign sorkts aas are being looked at. carter page and roger stone. stone says it's false. >> so, senator, how much of a concern do you and other republicans have with the russian connection for donald trump or members of donald trump's team? >> well, one, i think it has to be looked at, of course. it has to be looked at. my concern, of course, is with the russian hacking. that, we know, happened. so reports will come out. investigations will be done. it is concerning because you know what? now donald trump is our president as of today at noon. so he will need to understand that america is number one. bottom line, america is number

one. >> to you agree that vladimir putin not a friend? >> absolutely. >> he is working against america's interest every day? >> i absolutely agree with that. vladimir putin is not our foy-seven afriend and we need to watch our back and we knee need to maintain a relationship with russia but ho strength. >> why don't we ask mike how he was treated in the embassy. >> tell us about that. >> well, we could talk about that but i just want to know, for the record, we have a lot of bipartisan support about how to think about vladimir putin. the one guy we need to know where he comes down is of course the president-elect, soon to be the president. because what he said, up to this point, is at odd with what i think a lot of people who work on national security think. >> yeah. >> the second thing what you just reported in "the new york times," this is a very serious deal. i mean, this means -- to say that people are listening to

intercepts of u.s. citizens that means they have gone deep into the investigation. they went before a court and doesn't mean anybody is guilty. i want to be clear about that. just because you have an investigation doesn't mean anything is wrong. there is a lot of questions about what these ties were, what was promised. i don't want to believe it, to be honest, especially on inauguration day. but we need to know the answers. we need to know the depth of these contacts. >> we certainly know that everybody around the table here, certainly shares my concerns with vladimir putin and russia and all of our concerns. let's look at it a different way. what opportunities are there in a relationship? donald trump says maybe a new opening towards russia gives us an opportunity. others have said if it counter balances china's influence, just like kissinger thought in '71 and '72, maybe that helps. what are some of the

possibilities of a warm relationship with rusch? i think there is a honeymoon period now. the problem is he has defined good relations as his goal. good relations took never be the goal of foreign policy. that is the means to other things. but when you get into the list, it gets a little complicated. putin is not going to bal with us against china, his closest partner in the world today. with respect to isis, that has been floated. let's fight isis together. well, we have been fighting isis for a couple of years now in syria and iraq and russia has chosen not to join that fight. i think the list is short what we can accomplish with putin today. >> i asked both senators on armed services about what rex tillerson said at his confirmation hearing tor secretary of state in which he would support arming the ukrainians against russia. something you bo support, senator? >> i do support that.

i do support giving them the means not only to defend themselves but protect their families. it's very, very important that we do that. and i've been supportive of that measure for the last two years. i think it is something that we need to act on. >> why do you suspect we have not and done that, senator? >> it got bipartisan support in the senate armed services committee. >> why did the president oppose that? >> i think he feared it might escalate and i think he told people around him he wasn't willing to risk nuclear war for ukraine. >> he is doing things -- we were saying a year and a half ago he should do which was put troops in poland. >> we are providing weapons to ukraine or putting troops in poland is put treasupressure on vladimir putin. i tried to hire last year american citizens in our embassy

in moscow and try to travel the restriction. a whole host of things we did kdo to put pressure on moscow and the last three pres have been wrong footed by vladimir putin every time they tried to go to him with an open hand. >> i'd love to get all of your senses on donald trump's position on nato or several positions he has put out there. is it obsolete? >> i don't know that it is obsolete. i think we have seen pushback from nikki haley on this topic as well. i'm actually excited about that because he is surrounding himself with people who do have opposing views, espeal on nato, other areas like that, that makes him a better informed leader. i'd rather see a lot of discussion about that rather than everybody -- >> nikki haley and rex tillerson and i love general mattis' line. if nato didn't exist, we would

have to create it. >> i agree with vladimir -- i agree with what donald trump said about nato and its relationship to russia. >> is that a fraudi iafreudian ? >> no. i got you. >> i traveled to europe the last couple of years and you talk to the defense minute streisters a recognize they need to support their own defense and all increasing their budgets now. >> mr. ambassador, there has been resentment growing in middle america, when it's -- their home states or even in my district. people used to always ask why are we carrying the load for everybody? why are we carrying the load for germany? why are we carrying the load for britain? why are we carrying the load for japan? we are carrying the load for our economic rivals. so it's not like this is -- >> partners too. >> i know that. i'm just telling you what you

hear in town hall meetings. >> i was in montana two weeks ago and i heard the same in montana. >> it's not like this has come out of nowhere. >> correct. this has been an issue for several ghings. by the way, nato has been addressing it. they want all countries to get to 2%. a good goal. >> they are on their way? >> they are on their way. but nato is not obsolete. that phrase makes our nato allies nervous. i, too, have heard lots of great things in testimony and my colleague from stanford general mattis i know what he thinks about nato. we need the president now to say those things. he needs to assure our nato allies it's not obsolete tragically because of vladimir putin it's now needed more than ever. >> okay. so senators joni ernst and tom cotton, thank you both very much. great to see you. >> the guy from the south will be okay. >> come back on the on show and le let's keep the conversation going. the top democrats are coming up in the house and senate

congresswoman nancy pelosi and senator chuck schumer and joined by historian michael -- and the great tom brokaw. >> you were looking for the picture. >> from the national mall here in washington, we have complete coverage of today's inauguration straight ahead on "morning joe" as donald trump is ready to sworn in and barack obama moves out of the white house. >> what will you do when you're not president? >> well, i was thinking you and me, we could play some dominos together. >> dominos! all right! >> go to the local starbucks. swap stories! >> i want to see something the president said to me during the commercial break that i was very impressed by. he said to me, so when you retire, what are you planning? he said like me? when i leave the office, he says, i plan to taking a month off. i said are you kidding me? after eight years of this you're only taking a month off?

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this is my real hair and that is okay. that's okay. it might be a mess but they are going to see it's my real hair. >> oh, my god. so funny. it's now just five hours away. >> nice shot. >> we can tell you the hair is real. before donald trump becomes the 45th president of the united states today. in america's 58th formal inaugural ceremony. chief justice john roberts administers the oath to president trump at approximately noon to do. trump will place his hands on two bibles. one given to him by his mother before his ninth birthday and one used by abraham lincoln in 1861 which was used in both of president obama's inaugurals in

2009 and 2013. welcome back to "morning joe" live in the dub binner in washington. we are back at the bar. with us on set veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. joining the conversation is presidential historian and author and nbc contributor mike beschloss and msnbc special correspondent tom brokaw. >> let's put a little context around this. >> you can't, can you? >> any time you try to people get angry and say you're trying to normalize cru ize trump and back to jfk. whenfk was getting sworn in, harry truman thought that jfk was a spoiled brat. ike had even less use for him. >> right. >> when ronald reagan got sworn in in 1980 i remember a newsman the night he was winning that

massive landslide saying, my god, what is happening out there? people were shocked that ronald reagan was going to -- this b-list actor was going to be the next president of the united states. here we are in the age of twitter and reality tv and a product of that time is about to be the 45th president of the united states. >> sure is and one of the most fascinating things about our system the last 44 presidents, americans have said this job is so hard and so important, you can't have someone who hasn't had military experience or experience in public office. now for the first time, we are departing from that for a man who wears that as a badge of honor saying i wasn't corrupted by the system. but i'm so glad you mentioned, you know, kennedy and reagan. when kennedy came in, you're absolutely right, this day in 1961 and truman and eisenhower and a lot of these people are looking very skeptically at him, he changed their minds almost instantly in the way he did it was he gave this 14-minute

address, almost totally on foreign policy. one of the greatest inaugural addresses in american history and they said what a great speech and i'm seeing things in john kennedy i never saw before and that is donald trump's challenge today. >> tom brokaw, the people that are hearing that speech, are they looking for a short-term revolt? are they looking for a real political revolution that will change things for a generation like reagan tried to do? >> i posed that question to one of his principle advisers last night and said is this a revolt or a revolution? ed it's a revolution. the question is in this time of very short attention spans, does he have time for a revolution? i think the people who voted for him want something to happen very quickly because that was the tenor of what he was saying out there, elect me and i'll fix it and don't worry about it, we will get this done in a hurry. they are already conditioning some of the promises that were made, for example the same economic adviser said i'm not so we have top the tariffs right away and if we make this

thing work, tariffs may not be necessary. not unusual. everyone in canada has a variation how they won the race from their campaign to the reality of, looking -- i think the difference between the people that we talked about just a moment ago and donald trump is i sum it up in demeanor and deportment. that is the difference between them about how he'll conduct himself as president. now he does reflect a very large part of a popular culture. >> i was going to say, popular culture is radically different than in 1960 or 1980. >> no question about that, joe. i was thinking as we open up this morning and talk about donald trump, all across america, his supporters are saying, yes! give it to him! democrats are down at the bottom of the bed quivering in fear and saying how could this have happened? i think the big, big issue for the country is whoever is the president, how do we knit the place back together again? wherever i go people say to me

as they said to you, why can't we talk to each other and find a way to get common ground? i think that is a very big challenge. he has to stop campaigning once he gets in the oval office. >> democrats actually can't be hypocrites because they accuse the republicans of being -- stopping obama at the start and now they are going to be challenged to not do the same thing probably under the most st strenuous circumstances. >> elijah cummings said on our program a coupled. mr. president, call me and we can work on bringing drug prices down. there are areas that we agree on. call me. then ed, and call john lewis. >> right. >> funny you mention john lewis' name. i will ask michael about the impact and maybe a president for this number of members of congress not showing up to inauguration. obviously led by john lewis and noble that he is not there but that he said i'm not there because i believe donald trump is illegitimate. coming from john lewis, someone who garners the respect he garners, what is the impact? >> that makes a difference. as you know, there were protests

like this in 2001. george w. bush. somebody people including john lewis saying i don't think he was really elected president at least properly and same thing was true in 1973. people saying nixon extended the war four years after promising to take us out in 1968. it's happened before but i think john lewis spoke about this in 2001 but not the way he did this time. and how many fewer democrats would be boycotting this inauguration? you tell me if john lewis had not spoken. >> i really believe that rage is not a policy. i thought american politics works best when people take a breath and say, here is how we want to change things. bill clinton got to be president because of a third way after they got creamed by richard nixon with george mcgovern running against him. young democratic governors and other people who are strategists in the party got together and said we have to reinvent our party and how to figure out how

to regain the confidence of the country. rage is not a policy and democrats are going to have to figure out what they want to do. now they have lost 75% of the houses in the country. they have lost the house. and the senate. they have lost it three times in a row. they have elected a president that no one thought could get there. so the question is if you just get angry -- >> i'd add to that because i've heard from a lot of democrats that fear is not a policy either. some of them saying they are so scared what is going to happen and don't want to come forward and talk with the trump administration. rage and fear both get in the way of getting anything done. listen. this is going to be tough. they are going have to eat a lot of this because it is painful for the democrats. >> the toughest thing to explain is why democrats have lost over 900 legislative seats in states across the country since barack obama became president of the united states. this is a rebuilding project, unlike any i can think of in modern -- well, actually,

probably you could compare this to where the republicans were -- i was going to say in '74 or after watergate but it's important to remember. republicans were finished in '64. the reagan revolution started with tom right there in '66 in california. and then you had reagan six years after the watergate debacle in '74. >> given the way our culture is now, this is bigger than politics. and donald trump's task is far larger than politics. he rode a legitimate wave of anger and resentment to what the system had done to so many people with the economic collapse in 2008 and 2009. he rode that and represented the frustration that many people have. now the culture around us is

fractured and the country is fractured. and to tom's point -- >> it's really been fractured now since '92. >> walk down any street, joe. we no longer know each other. we don't establish eye contact with one another! we stare at our phones and our computer screens! no president in history ever had to contend with twitter and facebook. barack obama was the first. donald trump capitalized on it. >> he is using it to connect to people. >> he used it quite successfully but his job now, i think one of the most important tasks he has is to calm the country. >> yeah. >> calm the country easement i agree. >> that has been a big surprise to me because the guy was whether you like him or don't like him, he was brilliant in getting the nomination. >> completely. >> the last two months, i think to some extent, that brilliance has not been there because, you know, he had this amazing opportunity to take, you know, the base that voted for him and pile on top of that.

>> right. >> independents and democrats who were skeptical of him, but were willing to be persuaded. over at least thast tlast two m the combativeness and compulsiveness made people nervous. >> he is tweeting against merle streep and alec baldwin, "snl," john lewis. that's not the way to add. >> and where his approval ratings tanks. >> instead of staying after lockheed and boeing and ford and the others. tom, you've been around this a very long time. we were talking about '64 and what happened in '66. there are people, as you said, very nervous today. a lot of my friends really, really heartbroken and concerned. what word of encouragement do you give them -- not about the 45th president of the united states but this republic and what you have seen time and time again through '64 to '66,

through vietnam, through watergate and government shutdowns and impeachment processes. >> we have still a nation of laws and a high regard for the political process in this country across the country. whether in american legion hall or whether in an aclu meeting of some kind. people know what the system is all about. and what we have to do is get them to kind of come to some kind of common ground. what i say to people when they ask me that, don't get ahead of yourself. he's not yet taken office. everyone is saying to me are we going to be okay? we are the united states. we are going to be fine. we have been through a lot of difficult times and through huge wars and scandals and, what, 1968 as bad of a year i can remember. 15,000 die in vietnam. we have chicago. bobby kennedy and martin luther king are assassinated and richard nixon is elected and the country goes on.

you have to wait until he takes office and do things before you make the judgments that people are too quick to make prematurely in my judgment. a lot of examples of this in history. john f. kennedy brings the best and brightest to this town. a young man to change things. one of the colossal mistakes that any president could make was his first big decision to let that go forward. then from then on, any number of examples. richard nixon won a historic landslide for his second term and couldn't finish the term because he was deeply involved in watergate, a third-rate burglary. >> two years later. >> yeah. >> he is out. >> he is out. so let's in the get ahead of ourselves and wait and react to what happens. >> quickly. i want to read barnicle's piece. something will happen this year probably the next few months and we will learn how donald trump handles these things. he was introduced last night or will be this morning to the nuclear football. he'll learn when he gives the order, if that order comes, they

will execute and do exactly what he says. this is not theoretical stuff any more and the decisions he makes will have an impact on the world. i want to read a little piece of mark barnicle's report because you insisted i do so. this is in "the daily beast." mike writes the following.

that is mike barnicle writing about arlington cemetery. >> beautiful! wow. >> you know, if you go to arlington national cemetery and you walk around, you walk across memorial bridge. you walk past the lincoln memorial. you walk alongside the vietnam wall. and you pray, because you are a citizen of the greatest country in god's earth, the united states of america. but the 45th president of the united states understands the weight of history and responsibility and what happens when you have the wrong

temperament or act irration a y ally, what can happen and you pray for a successful presidency. at least i do. >> you know it is actually interesting. this is a man, michael, who seemingly filled with contradictions. people are concerned about donald trump on one hand from maybe not having the right temperament, and maybe starting an unnecessary war. yet, foreign policy experts are concerned actually that he may not be willing enough to use american power and american force in much the same way they were critical for barack obama for not going into syria. is there a risk that america reverts back to what it was on

december 6th, 1941. >> you got a president coming in america first. the whole meaning of america first we defend this -- you know, our land mass at the tomb ocean shores and do not get involved in alliances, if he takes that seriously. but the other thing is that this is what makes this so fascinating for all of us is that, you know, for the other, you know, 43 pridents, since grov cleveland served two terms and is accounted twice, those were all people if we were on inaugural day we could say we pretty much could project what they are going to do to a great extent because is there a long political career and a time in public office. in this case, we have almost no idea. >> tom, that is the great question. >> you don't have to go to war to be successful in foreign policy. but you do have to get pro active about what you want to do. the classic example in my lifetime was president bush 41 and james baker putting together the coalition as they do to

drive saddam out of kuwait. they worked very hard in sealing the deal with our european allies and saudi arabia, with allies from around the world, then they went to war and it was over in a hurry. because they thought through what they wanted to do and how they wanted to get it done. you can, in effect, go to war diplomatically as well by putting together an air-tight alliance and say this is who we are and if you come after us, we are going to unleash all of the power that we have and failure of the last couple of administrations have been, including president obama's. he didn't work hard enough at engaging and energizing our european allies about what our responsibility is in the middle east. and so he leaves office with an unsettled war there. we have been at war for 13 years now. the great chinese entrepreneur just gave a speech and he said, you spent far too much money in your country on wars. trillions of dollars that should have gone to job creation.

you have to think again about pulling the trigger and pretty good advice coming into this time. >> tom brokaw, thank you very much and michael beschlos, thank you. >> thank you, tom. >> hill stayed still ahead, maud bob woodward and frank bruni will join us. how capitol hill is preparing for president trump straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ ♪ are you gathering up the tears have you had enough of mine ♪ nner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job

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you come through like that. see? it's over the shoulder like that. >> i'll give you an over-the-shoulder. >> that baseball, you just got to bring it back here, right, will willie? then? >> over the top and turn it over and right there. you see? >> you know what? since he is leaving office -- >> what about bowling? any bowling tips? >> time to get together and work on your stroke. >> not that. >> joining us now is msnbc political analyst rick tyler and david ignatius is with us as well and robert costa. you write in "the washington post" donald trump's inauguration marks a global inflection point. he takes office at a moment when many analysts see a transition to a new economic and political order one where the risks for the united states and its allies are likely to increase. trump's promise to make america great again resonated with many

disaffected voters at home but abroad it created fear that the united states global power is receding with china and russia moving to fill the vacuum. trump now owns responsibility for shaping a world in turmoil. >> i was reading ronald reagan's inauguration in 1991. you could take the first five paragraphs out and donald trump could say them today, talking about people losing their jobs, the manufacturing base being gutted, productivity going down. we actually -- this really is just part of the 40, 50-year-old trend and it just seems to be accelerate i accelerating past that post-war manufacturing boom that we haven't been able to recover from. >> joe, we are living in a new world. it's a new world for our economy, our economy is in

transition. trump expressed the anxiety, the anger really of people who feel they have been left behind in this economy. the other thing i was writing about this morning, the thing that is really going to land on donald trump's showerulders tod at noon is a responsibility for a world in turmoil. we have around the world a rising china that is increasingly a dominate force in economic life. we have a russia that is pushing hard against u.s. power. and, you know, you think a lot of the ideas that donald trump has expressed about foreign policy makes sense. nato countries should pay more for their own defense and that was a sensible thing for him to say, disruptive, but sensible. but calling nato obsolete in this period of turmoil and uncertainty, that is one i'll bet he wants to rethink starting at noon. >> just adds to uncertainty. do you agree with richard haass who has now said it several times on our show that donald trump's inbox on foreign policy is actually more daunting than

the one that greeted barack obama eight years ago? >> i think that among foreign policy analysts, there is a sense that the process of american power in retreat, the rise of other countries that would challenge us is a greater problem than it was eight years ago and donald trump has to decide how to think about that. he has big ideas for deals with our allies, with our adversaries to reshape the world and reshape the terms of trade but it's a world that is not stopping for donald trump's bargaining to -- it's rolling. >> right. >> go ahead, bob. >> the people around trump on foreign policy are so different than the usual crowd. not only among republicans, but among democrats. this is an outside of washington group. steve bannon thinks about the world in populace nationalist terms and jared cukushner and r

tillerson out of the business sector and michael flynn a national security adviser and many tension in recent years with the intelligence community. you have outsiders who don't have a huckish view at all when it comes to the world. >> a beautiful sunrise coming over the capitol right now, rick. it is very interesting, though, again, talking to diplomats and foreign leaders who are very concerned about some of the things that david brings up, but are comfort by the idea of general mattis and rex tillerson, and general kelly, and others that are not only -- not only seem to be a bit more apolitical but weary of war since they have waged war themselves for 13 years and 14 years. in the case of general kelly, he even lost a son. >> i was with som folks who were from kosovo last night and

saying when america is strong the world is a safer place and they do depend. it's amazing the focus the rest of the world has on this city and from pennsylvania avenue to congress, which is right across the street, and they worry about it. they worry about america being absent and i think for the last eight years, our foreign policy has been somewhat adrift. it remains to be seen what will happen, but when the world -- when america withdraws from the world and i believe that america has been a force of good in the world, the world can become a very dark and bloody place rather than quickly. >> well, we have grave things on the agenda and, today, though, is a moment of hope and possibility as we wait to hear what president-elect trump says during his inaugural address. but i love what our control room is doing showing those shots of washington as the sun comes up. they are beautiful and they really sort of, like, capture the moment of change as we wake up today to a new day and not only in washington, but the rest of the world.

up next on "morning joe," live in washington at the dubliner the number three ranking republican in the u.s. senate. senator john thune joins the conversation here on set. >> we are also going to have nancy pelosi. >> chuck schumer. >> chuck schumer. i think al franken i believe is coming. >> rand paul. >> a cast of thousands. >> all talking about what is happening today. we will be back live from the dubliner in a moment. ♪ something never been done hey, searching for a great used yeah! you got it. just say show me millions of used cars for sale at the all new carfax.com. i don't want one that's had a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported

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joining us on the phone i donald trump jr., president of the ump organization. good to have you on board with us this morning. how are you feeling? how is your dad doing? >> well, i'm feeling great and he is doing great. good to be back on you. i think the last time we were on it was election day. >> wow. yes, it was. >> it was election day. even that morning, a lot of people around your father were actually skeptical themselves that he would win that night. i certainly know that he never doubted it.

and you never doubted it. but it came as a great surprise to a lot of people. >> yes. >> how have you guys gotten from that moment to today? and are you ready -- is he ready to take office and are you guys ready to hit the ground running 100 miles an hour? >> well, listen. you know, he is ready to take office and he already, as you've seen over the last few weeks, he is already working in doing a lot of the things ed he was going to do. for me, it's actually almost the opposite. i'm transitioning back into a regular life over the last few weeks. but it's been an amazing process. it's been amazing to see and i think the reason he had that confidence that he was going to win was, you know, he was out there meeting all of these incredible people all over the country and i spoke about it i believe on the show that morning which is like now i saw that hidden voter. , you know, that person is not supposed to be the trump voter but has been watching their

american dream get exported overseas and not has a job and unemployed for years and it's amazing to watch what is going on right now and be a small part of this and see it all happen. >> willie? >> don, it's willie. congratulations on getting to this day. humility is not a word we always use with your dad but i wonder if he has been humbled over the last couple of days and yesterday arriving here in washington as the gravity of this new job sets upon him? has he been humbled by it? >> listen. i think he has been humbled by the whole process and whether he shows that outwardly or not is one thing. but, i mean, i've seen it with him throughout. you know, i know for me, in watching it and being a part of the process, the fight, it's so brutal campaigning and being out there 24/7 and every five minutes a high and a low and a high and a low. actually even though this is two months ago that we found out that we had won, really getting here yesterday and going to

arlington and seeing the history and everything that -- the magnitude of it all it really took that long to set in. i mean, you're going so hard during the campaign that it sort of desensitizes you almost to virtually any emotion if that makes any sense. it's just so brutal. i was actually upset. i was like i'm wondering when it's going to hit me this is real? well, it was yesterday. i know he has experienced a lot of that and he is ready to get to work. >> all right. donald trump jr. thank you very much. >> thank you for calling in. >> thank you for giving us a call. we greatly appreciate it and good talking to you and good luck today. >> thanks very much, guys. appreciate it. >> joining us is the senate of the commerce committee and chairman of the republican conference senator john thune of south dakota. >> good morning. >> i want to comment quickly on one thing that donald jr. said about him wanting to get to work

and we have known donald for a long time. the one thing the guy hates, more than anything, is vacation. >> no, he doesn't do that. >> no. he literally doesn't do vacation. >> ever. >> they have got mar-a-lago and got started allowing guests in there because he wouldn't go down there because he couldn't work and he couldn't rest. when ed he is ready to get to work, donald a even told me. i can't imagine. wait until they go up to camp david? why go there? the work is here. stay here. i think he is going to be like a bill clinton who loved the job. >> yeah. >> stayed in the job. >> loves talking to people. >> work 24 hours a day on the phone. >> and also considers the social aspect of it work too. i think president obama, there is a difference here who really did not like the social aspect of it as much. >> right. that is one thing when you're talking about foreign leaders. again, i know you've heard this too. trump, if you want trump, pick up the phone, call trump if you're a foreign leader.

a lot of talking back and forth. >> there has been more talk than most people realize leader coming to visit him, national security advisers from other countries coming to see his top advisers. there is a real dialogue and i think the world is holding its breath today waiting to see how these policies they have been hearing about are going to be put into practice. >> senator john thune, are you holding your breath? >> well, i think we are already ready to exhale. it's a big day and exciting day. i think there is always a sense in the country, irrespective of how an election comes out and who wins and who loses is there a fresh start and a chance for a new beginning. i think the congress is prepared to roll up our sleeves and go to work. you're right. one thing that donald trump has is a powerful work ethic. i don't think anybody can dispute that after the campaign that he went through and i expect him to carry that over because that is who he is. >> bob? >> senator thune, you're one of the senate's leaders on the infrastructure issue.

how do you think this priority for the president-elect is going to kick off in the first hundred days? >> well, i think -- we have had conversations, of course, with some of his members of his nominees for various cabinet positions. and some of whom were involved in shaping that. but i suspect they are going to submit some sort of proposal to congress that we will be able to consider and they will have an opportunity to work with him on it but it's a big priority for him. a lot of pro infrastructure members on both sides of the aisle and i think one of the things you can find some bipartisanship on. it's also something that is very much about jobs and the economy and that where we are excited to work with this new president because he has a clear focus on those issues. >> speaking of jobs. donald trump is talking about a 35% tariff on german cars coming to the united states built outside. he has talked about a tariff against mexico. 40% tariff with china or 30%. will the republican congress go along with tariffs that are

really -- to anything you've ever believed in? >> i would say it's unlikely, joe, you would find much support, at least among republic memrs of congress on some of those proposals. but i thinkhat he is doing, and think this is probably an important message to send to some of our -- the people with whom we do business around the world is that this is no longer business as usual. and he is somebody who is going to shape things up and take a different look at things. wilbur ross is the nominee for commerce secretary and in front of our committee this week. he talked about the importance of, you know, being treated fairly and enforcing our laws and a lot of times people take advantage of american businesses and we play by the rules and nobody else does. i think that message is important one to send. >> senator john thune, thank you so much. it's great to have you back. >> thank you, john. >> we love having you. up next perspective from the democratic party of the u.s. leader new york's chuck schumer is here. that conversation is next on "morning joe."

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we have a cabinet, i believe, the likes of which has never been appointed. there is never a cabinet like many. i will say the other side is going absolutely crazy. they are going crazy. ♪ ♪ >> come on right into the bar and join us because president-elect trump last night was talking about that. joining us now the senate minority leader chuck schumer of new york. >> almost majority leader! >> almo! there is still time! i want to read you to president-elect's instagram post from last night. i'm deeply humbled by the faith that millions of americans have

placed in me in our movement and those who did not support to me i ask for the chance to be your president too as we make america great again together pop a. are you hopeful today? >> i'd like to see it that way. when president-elect campaigned, he campaigned against both the democratic and republican establishments. but just about all of his moves since he has come in, particularly his cabinet appointments, have been hard right. i'm looking to see if in this address he is going to move back a little bit because these cabinet people are people, george w. bush wouldn't have chosen. mulvaney who just wants to slash the entire federal government in the most sensitive position of omb? trump didn't campaign on that. price, end medicaid as we know it by privatizing it and trump said he would -- let's see where he is. >> general mattis, for instance. >> great choice. >> pompeo. are these selections that give you reason to believe he'll have some independent voices? >> yes. i've met mattis and heard all about him and my former

roommate, when we were congressmen sleeping downstairs on couches, leon panetta, speaks highly of him. i think mattis could be actually a guide and maybe a check on president trump we were congressmen sleeping downstairs on couches, leon panetta, speaks highly of him. i think mattis could be a guide and maybe a check on president trump in the foreign policy area, and let me tell you, a lot of my republican colleagues are formed for that reason. >> i understand donald trump called you the morning after he was elected. >> he did. >> in fact, you were one of the first people that he called. >> i guess that's right. >> that shows an understanding, doesn't it? >> for the first month he said i'm his friend. look, we never had dinner together, never played golf together but i bump into him from place to place and he did that fundraiser you noted on the show a while ago when i was head of the senate campaign committee, he helped me take back the senate. then he started attacking me, calling me names.

it didn't affect me. he can flatter m won't work. we're not going to oppose the name trump because trump is on it. on some issues, trade, i was against nafta. i'm closer to his views on trade. >> infrastructure. >> than i was to obama. he wants to appeal the carried interest loophole. we'll join him. >> what about, we had elijah cummings on who said he wanted to work with the incoming president on making big pharma actually negotiate drug prices. do you support that? >> absolutely. but, when i look at what he's done over the last -- while he's not focusing on that end of things, he's been hard right and i think maybe the vice-president, maybe priebus, have pushed him in that direction. the hard right philosophy is so far away from where americans are. let's look at the two major issues that have occupied us in the last few weeks. aca, they have nothing to put -- you know, obamacare, they have

nothing to put in its place and republicans are now whispering, hey, this isn't working. so we've said to them -- >> donald trump said though -- actually made paul ryan back down. >> yes, he did. >> and say we're not going to repeal it until we have a replacement. >> well, they have two choices. one is not to repeal it. if you want to not repeal it which is i think the weisest course, we'll work with them. it's very hard, for six years the republicans haven't had a replacement. the other ones, even worse, is the cabinet. the cabinet is so far away from the way donald trump campaigned in terms of the wealth, the conflicts of interest, and the views, way over. and they're not getting good reviews. that's why trump, not only did he not start out very well with the american people giving him advice in this election, but the transition period has made him sink in the polls and in the eyes of the american people. and i make one more --

>> of course. >> haven't been on in every a year, joe. a year. >> this is your time. >> this is your time. come on. >> i was going to say, about half the electoral is sort of anti-trump and voted against him. half voted for him. of that half who voted for him, a quarter of them are trump all the way, but the other quarter voted against hillary clinton and they are moving away from him now when they see what he's doing. >> i think it's fair to say, senator, just about everybody who voted for you and also who voted for hillary clinton are frankly horrified by what they're about to see today, that donald trump is going to become president. and a lot of them are putting their faith in you. they say you have a relationship with him, you can stand in his way on certain things. what hope can you give americans who didn't vote for donald trump about the country this morning? >> i guess because i'm the vice chair of the inaugural committee, i'm the only democrat speaking, and what i say to them is that even in times of trouble, the american people are practical, optimistic, decent, and they always bring us back.

i'm going to read a poem, one of my favorite things, i don't know if you know it. a man named sullivan belu, a civil war major wrote to his wife a week before he died on the battlefield of bull run. that's america, and that will pull us back from any brink or abyss. i believe in the people of this country, i always have. and by the way, not all -- a lot of counties in new york state went 60% for trump and 60% for me. >> right. >> so not all -- >> ue. >> so will you navigate working with him, when you hear a message like the one i read at the top of this interview when he says for people who didn't support me -- >> it's going to be values that guide us, not to oppose trump just for its own sake, but no to go along with him when he opposes our values. so there as i mentioned, on issues like trade or prescription drugs, if he's true to what he says, he would actually be closer to us than the republicans. >> by the way, we've always said that actually. >> seeing is believing.

let's see. his cabinet choices indicate none of that, and they're the important people. >> you watch the show. we've said the same, that we were surprised by just how conservative, especially on the domestic side of things, his picks were. >> it's partly a lot of insiders credit senator schumer for that for keeping some of the senate democrats in the senate to make sure trump wasn't able to poach any of these democrats. >> we have real unity. on economic issues, why did we lose? because all that was done was attack trump. the american people didn't know what we stood for. we have a sharp-edged, bold economic program. it will unite bernie sanders and elizabeth warren with joe manchin. >> that's awesome. that's powerful. >> the biggest question i have as a congressional reporter, all these 2018 democrats who are up for re-election, you're known as a tough leader, how much room are these democrats who are vulnerable in 2018 going to have

to go vote for a trump bill? if they get out of line will there be consequences or an atmosphere of letting them go to the other side? >> so far we've had complete unity on one of the most controversial issues, obamacare, all 48 democrats voted no. >> david? >> senator, i want to ask you a question in the back of our minds today. there is a senate intelligence committee investigation of the question of russian hacking and possible connections to the trump campaign. are you confident that the republican leadership, the republicans, will allow that investigation to continue until it reaches a conclusion? >> david, for a foreign power to interfere in our elections, whether they affected the outcome or not, is devastating. it's never happened really in a serious way before. if we do nothing against russia and don't get to the bottom of this, they'll do it again, china will do it, iran will do it. there are a good number of republicans, some of my dearest friends in the senate, mccain,

graham, who are appalled by this, and we will unite with them to make sure there's a thorough investigation. and i would like to hear president-elect trump say he will let whatever investigation happens go forward. we cannot block it. >> all right, on that note, we end the interview. chuck schumer, thank you so much. please come back. >> great to be back. >> come back, great to see you. >> likewise. >> we would love to talk. >> i'm excited. ready for the fight. >> all right. chuck schumer, thank you very much. still ahead, the other top democrat on capitol hill, house minority leader, nancy pell ossy joins us. "morning joe," live coverage from washington is coming right back. we've done well in life, with help from our advisor, we made it through many market swings. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back...

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oh, great. should have sent it a week before. that's okay. we love you, too. they are now officially a member of our party. [ applause ] >> this hour, the president-elect -- >> by the way, they don't send it the week before when you're not supposed to win. they send it the week after. he even kind of poked sheldon aidleson. >> he pokes everybody. that's what we're going to learn over the next four years. there's no which aisle or which side or which team. he's got no filter. >> we hope that changes. this hour the president-elect is going to be leaving the blair house where he stayed overnight. then he's going to begin to make his way to st. john's church, starting the process of becoming the 45th president of the united states. >> yes, chief justice john roberts administers the oath to

the president-elect at approximately noon. trump will place his hand on two bibles, one given to him by his mother just before his 9th birthday, and the other one used by abraham lincoln in 1861 which was used in both of president obama's inaugurations in 2009 and 2013. welcome back to "morning joe." live special coverage at the dubliner in washington. it's a bar. with us veteran columnist and msnbc cricketer mike barnacle and joining the coertion, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, and house minority leader, congresswoman nancy pelosi of california. good to have you on board this morning. >> pleasure. thank you. >> so nancy, i'm hardened by hearing what chuck schumer said and what you're saying which is we're going to fight like hell. >> yeah. >> but this is america. it's part of the process. everybody just relax. we need to roll up our sleeves and get to work. >> i like the relax part. i think everyone should take a

deep breath and just say the greatness of america can withstand anything, including the election of donald trump. but we wish him well. >> that's right. >> the president of the united states, in contrast to what the republicans did to president obama when they took the majority when he was president to say the most important thing we can do is to make sure he doesn't succeed. >> mika has been challenging democrats to say are you going to be better than republicans were eight years ago. >> remember that? >> are you going to look for common ground? >> that was six years ago because we had the majority until six years ago. >> you're right. you're right. >> i was talking about after barack obama got elected. >> after they took the majority, it was two years later. in the meantime we were able to accomplish the obama legacy which we were a part of. let me say this, look how we worked with president george w. bush. what could be worse than the war in iraq? what greater disagreement could we have? the american people were opposed

and the rest. so we on in '06. we went in there opposed to the war, opposed to privatizing social security. we passed some of the most significant legislation, the biggest energy bill in the history of our country. he wanted nuclear, i wanted renewables. >> you compromised. >> we did what barney frank calls one of the most progressive pieces of legislation. he wanted rebates for the wealthy. one of the most progressive bills. pep far. he wanted pep far, we wanted it big. a source of pride to president bush and it should be, and mrs. bush by the way, laura bush. the list goes on of the things that we worked together on. tarp, what could be a worse thing to ask members to vote for than that? >> not a lot. >> our example is one where we

have said we disagree here, let's find it elsewhere. nonetheless, we'll see how it goes. what's different from ten years ago and eight years ago is that the public, the social media is such that the public is so attuned to what's going on and that i have to see as a plus because the more the public is aware of the decisions members of congress make, the more they weigh in. as you see, so much is organic now. >> right. >> people marching in the streets, not organized by us but spontaneously by themselves. >> leader pelosi, i think your advice to take a deep breath is critical, i really do. i think it's good advice, but so many of your colleagues are not taking a deep breath. they're not going to show up today at the inauguration. they've taken a step further in john lewis saying this is not a legitimate president. do you think there's a danger in saying that before he even takes office? >> i think a lot of people think

that and he gave expression to it. if it were anybody but john lewis, it would be a different story. but i keep asking for the numbers. how many republicans did not show up for barack obama's inaugurations, and there are a number of them, although they say we don't have the records. you can see how many people showed up and figure out how many were republicans so there were quite a few. this is spontaneous again, organic. members have made their own decision. by the way, a number of them weren't coming even before president-elect trump made his unfortunate remarks about an icon in our country, john lewis. >> isn't it more difficult now to work together when you've said flatly he's not even a legitimate president. >> we didn't say that. >> john lewis said that. >> i think that president-elect trump has said enough things that might be disqualifying in terms of working together, but nonetheless, we go forward. >> you believe he's a legitimate president? >> well, he was elected -- i remind you that hillary clinton got millions more votes but if

the electoral college -- and of course there's an investigation as to wt the collusion might have been between -- we know the russians hacked, we knowhey leaked and have altered whatever they leaked but we want to see what the collusion is. but that's an investigation. right now he's going to be sworn in towday. we go forward with faith in our country. i believe again in the greatness of america to withstand anything, the presence of god and the urgency that the american people see in their lives. >> it sounds like you don't totally believe he's a legitimate president. >> that's not true. he's elected by the electoral college. he's there. >> michael steele, off of what leader pelosi is saying, you speak to many republicans. do you think the republicans are aware of the loyalty that is out there among people, two of the pillars of our culture, medicare and medications and the threat that's posed to them? >> i think that's part of an

ongoing debate. what donald trump has done, he's sort of pricked at that particular scab within the party. there's always been beneath the surface and joe knows this, a conversation about how do we deal with this big entitlement program and process. donald trump has come in and said basically we're not going to touch that right now. he said that from the very beginning. he's been very clear about that. but the leadership in the budget planning and certainly in the rel rick as you know, they have gone out and said, we want to take a look at these things. so i think there's going to be much more of an internal struggle within the party. >> i think there's going to be a struggle on the hill but donald trump knows he won because he won wisconsin, he won ohio, he won michigan, he won pennsylvania and that's not the paul ryan brand of conservatism. that's donald trump's version of republicanism. >> exactly. >> he said he's not -- >> on the subject of medicare, let me just say this to michael. the republicans have never been

a fan of medicare, even from its origin, a. in the '90s when newt gingrich was speaker, his comment was medicare should wither on the vine. this isn't just about cost. >> he would say things like that. >> medicare should wither on the vine and in the budget that paul ryan has put forth, it removes the guarantee for medicare. medicare is a guarantee. to remove the guarantee is to eliminate medicare. so, yes, everybody wants to subject every dollar that is spent by the federal government to scrutiny as to how we can do it better and save more, but if you don't believe, as joe as said, idea logically in medicare and your budget is to say -- i always say to people, show me your budget, show me your values. and that budget says our values do not include a strong

medicare. >> so you mentioned the millions of voters who supported hillary clinton. >> yes. >> and there is obviously a lot of unfinished business out there in america as it pertains to the democratic party. what do you think the key goal should be in rebuilding the party if you believe it needs to be rebuilt, as many do? >> well, i think we have to shape up our message. i think that what you heard leader schumer earlier, our members are very united around protecting working families in our country. while we may disagree on one issue or another along the way, people always say to me, oh, you keep them united. i don't keep them united. our values keep them united. and our principle value is to be there for working families. that message did not come across because of other distractions. we did this in '05 and '06, to be strategic, prioritize, discipline as we go forward so we know how to win with a

republican in the white house. >> can i talk about culture as well. at some point, because working class voters for instance that have usually gone for democrats in the past have felt cultural disconnected. i remember maxine waters once saying my family was born with a bible in its hands. i've heard you talk about god and faith. there is a feeling that there's a disconnect between today's democratic party and white working class voters. for instance, my family voted democratic their entire life until 1972. my mom said when fdr died it was like a king died. they were in mourning for years. they still don't like harry truman. but how did democrats who have the right policies economically in their minds, how do they reconnect with a middle america who feels like sometimes they're looked down upon because of their faith or their values? >> well, thank you for asking that question because the cultural issue and especially when it comes to rural america,

the isolation that some people feel there, plus they don't think that democrats are people of faith when the fact is that we are. and i say -- this will be a little -- not in keeping with the spirit of the day of unity but i say they pray on church on sunday and prey on people the rest of the week and while we're doing the lord's work by ministering to the needs of god's creation, they are ignoring those needs which is to dishonor the god who made them. so we have to -- we don't wear our religion on our sleeve and maybe we should. we don't wrap ourselves in the flag, but maybe we should, because we're all, democrats, republicans, eryone loves our country, our people of faith. we don't, as i say, exploit that because we don't think you're supposed to, but maybe we have to make it clearer. >> make it more clear. >> and in your messaging now we have sherry bustos from illinois

reflecting that if you're a veteran and you're out there and a person of faith and you're out there in rural america especially, it's not confined to rural america, but that is a place where we know we have to communicate in a better way about our values. >> right. >> okay, congresswoman nancy pelosi, it is so good to see you. >> good to see you. let me say one more thing. in my office i have a picture of of me with three presidents. john f. kennedy as a teenager. >> nancy dell sandro. >> barack obama, and george herbert walker bush and mrs. bush, a family picture. >> wonderful. >> they're so wonderful. we love them so much and pray that they're comfortable and hopefully well. >> yes, thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you, nancy, so much. one of the democrats looking

to find common ground with the incoming president, senator joe manchin joins the conversation, and he brought his grandkids. as we go to break, let's go to msnbc's jacob sewinger. i have a joke here about him being a grandchild but we won't go there. jacob, go. >> reporter: good morning, mika, good morning, joe. we are about a mile down from the capitol building on the national mall. you can kind of see people way town there in the distance. it's a bit lonely at the moment. if i give you a 360 look around, you can see the smithsonian here. in the distance the press broadcast booth where a lot of shows will be originating from today. when president obama has inaugurated the crowd stretched wau all the way down to the monument. over here is the museum of national history. hopefully i'll have more company in the next few hours.

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♪ they said donald trump couldn't get any major music performers but i guess they didn't count on this. >> the musical dance from utah who became a worldwide internet nsation,lease welcome the piano guys. >> the piano guys. this is the song they chose to sing. ♪ it's going to be, going to be okay ♪ ♪ it's going to be, going to be okay ♪ >> wait a minute, it's going to

be okay? that's inspirational. it's not exactly eye of the tiger. >> and toby keith, right? >> i like lee greenwood. >> by the way, real quickly. a big day today, a huge day, a massive day. andrew scarborough's birthday today. >> oh. >> happy birthday to andrew. thank god for andrew. >> joining us now democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia, friend of the show, good to have you back. >> joe, how are you? >> good. >> where are your grandkids? >> three of them are right there. i got three out of ten here, sophie, chloe and jack. 13, 17, 16. >> you married young. >> i did. >> we have been heartened, at least i have -- there they are. >> beauties. >> get the grandkids smiling at

the camera. one, two, three, go. turn around. >> hi girls. hi. >> so i've been heartened at least by hearing from both chuck schumer and nancy pelosi that nobody is freaking out. they're saying let's just see what happens. let's relax. let's see where we can agree, and we'll fight where we disagree. that's how we're supposed to do it, right? >> they asked me yesterday in different groups we were talking to, i said the problem that you have right now, everybody is saying we're not going to do this, we're going to shut down, we're going to stone wall everything. i said two wrongs don't make a right. i said as a democrat we're upset about what happened the last six, eight years and it didn't work well, the cntry dn't move forward and we didn't have progressive legislation done. but to do the same thing is wrong, just wrong. so i said, you know, that's what we're sent here to do. you weren't sent here to represent yourself. you were sent here to represent

the people. >> there's been a lot of consternation and friction and run-up to of course the election, and democrats have found themselves in a position they didn't expect to be in. i read from donald trump's instagram post last night, he says, i'm humbled by the faith that millions of americans have placed in me. those who did not support me, i ask for the chance to be your president, too. how do you intend to work with him? do you intend to urge other democrats to try not to do perhaps what republicans might have done when obama lost power in congress and they kind of wanted to bring him down from the get-go. is there going to be a big reset given these words and maybe more that we hear at noon today? >> well, you know, i've talked to chuck schumer quite a bit and i know he was on before me and everything and we've worked trying to say, chuck, we got to keep the door open, we got to find out if there's a pathway for it. that's the job and charge i've got to sit down with him. there's not a republican that looks at me thinking i'm trying to defeat him or work against

him. i won't do that. i think that's what's wrong with washington. we've got to have a little more collegiate attitude here and working together. they always told us back in the '90s until you all blew it up i guess. >> we actually got a few things done because we fought like hell but we balanced a budget together, passed welfare reform, did a lot of things. >> i think we're going to move forward, i'm going to try. there's 10 or 12 of us on the senate side, moderates, they're looking for a pathway to work. paul is going to have to understand he can't give us so toxic we can't get anything moving. on the other hand, president-elect trump and his administration has to work with him. we can tell him where he can go and can't go. i'll be an honest broker. if it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. >> there's been multiple hearings on cabinet members. perhaps only two will be sworn in today maybe.

does any cabinet member who presides over a department and impactseople you represent, but someone like betsy devos, education in west virginia, education is critical in every state but it's really important in west virginia. does her nomination concern you at all? >> yes, it does. it most certainly does and i've said that out loud. i come from a rule state and our funding mechanism for rural states is much different than what the large urban areas are. if betsy is looking at basically strictly going privatizing and it works and charter schools works, it might work in an urban metropolitan area. when you start doing that, you're going to decimate, truly destroy the rural is to school systems we have and i'm just not going in that direction. i think it's wrong. they're going to say one size doesn't fit all but if it's handed down and some of the intensives are coming from washington, it will move in a direction that a rural area -- i don't have an urban area, i don't have a large metropolitan.

i have a bunch of small towns, beautiful people in small towns, and they need their public school system. >> donald trump will become the president of the united states in less than four years and he says one of his top priorities is the repeal and replace of obamacare. he said he's close to a replacement. he didn't get into the details of what that is exactly. are you concerned about the idea of repealing obamacare and if so what would be your answer? >> ti've spoken to the president-elect about this and i said, listen, this thing came in 2009. i wasn't there. 60 democrats, not one republican. that's not bipartisan. and it split the country. i was governor at that time and it split us. you're going to now throw it out with 51 republicans, not one democrat. there's no way i'm going to throw it out and say we're going to repair it later. two years from now we won't do anything, nothing changes, that gets you past the 2018 election. you say take all the taxes,

repeal the taxes, you bust the budget cap by $400 million in the first two years, you can't do that. he understood it and he said we're not going to do that. i said give us a repair first. it takes 60 to repair it. that doesn't make sense at all unless we're all working together. >> senator, we know there's a difference between the house and the senate for sure. you've had 60 house members who have said openly and declare tifly they're not coming today because they see the picture as being ill illegitimate. how do you work with the democratic congress and the caucus to heal some of those wounds and bring those folks to the table that you're talking about where you can begin to get some big policy things done? we know donald trump, at least his initial reaction in response to those things are not a very positive one, so how do we avoid the trap that republicans fell into at the beginning of the obama administration and not repeat the sort of wall building between the party and the

leadership? >> first of all, let me just say, john lewis is an icon. there's not a democrat or republican that doesn't not only respect john lewis but loves john lewis. john can help heal this and i think he will. he's the leader and john gets it. he'll come back and we'll bring things together. right now people are feeling sympathy and maybe this is what they're doing, fine. they have to come back to why they're sitting here. they're sitting here to represent their districts. i think we'll rise to that. you talked earlier about 1968. i remember it very well. i was 21 years old. i thought the country was going to fall apart. vietnam, we're all getting drafted. the country was imploding. you know what, we made it. >> made it through. >> we made it. >> senator, thank you for being here. always good. >> we're looking right now at pictures of the blair house. >> that's where president-elect

trump stayed last night. >> and it is obviously one of the most extraordinary stories in our lifetime, in our political lifetime, that he got elected president of the united states when few even in his own party gave him a chance. well today, this is where it's led. >> in just a few moments he'll be coming out those doors and heading to st. john's church. >> we asked jon meacham if there was any parallel in american history, he said perhaps andrew jackson but not evenndw jackson because jackson had been in the military, that this is a first. >> besh law says there's none. we'll be back with more live coverage here in washington.

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coverage here in washington aspect donald trump and his wife melania leave the blair house and get into black cars. they'll be headed off to st. john's church where there will be a service there. but this is now the day beginning, inauguration day for president-elect donald j. trump. that's the first visual moment of the day as the family emerges out of blair house, an historical location in itself, joe? >> it really is. it is really hard to believe, maureen dowd, for those like yourself who have known donald trump for such a long time, that this moment has finally come,

but isn't it fascinating that he was always that guy from queens and never really accepted into manhattan society but fought like hell, worked like hell to achieve what he achieved, and he repeated the same script to get to this point today. >> right. that's how he relates to the common man, even though he's a billionaire. because really what he likes to do is go home, have a cheeseburger, watch a sporting event, and go to bed. hopefully eating the cheeseburger in 45 minutes. >> right. and that's also something that some people did not understand why he connected with middle america so much. they don't understand new york. >> right. >> they don't understand that as graden carter still calls donald trump, he's an outer boroughs guy and that sort of chip on his shoulder has always fueled him. >> i don't think he's like that at all. >> you don't think he's like what at all?

>> no. maureen, i think that's the image that connects him with america? for some reason he has this incredible, indelible connection with the working man who made it, but i think donald trump likes to go to events. he likes to connect with people. he's obsessed with his relationships in a positive way. he has tons of friendships. he loves to interconnect and make deals and place people where they're supposed to be place, and he loves showing up at the events at mar-a-lago. i don't see him sitting eating a cheeseburger watching a game for a second, unless maybe for five minutes. >> you know, ashley parker, my former researcher who's now a wonderful "washington post" trump white house -- >> yes, i know her. >> you guys know her. she had a really great story the other day talking about the contrast of he's both isolated and omni present. >> yes. >> omni present on twitter and at parties but he really likes the comfort stones of his enclaves and so sort of huddle

there. it's both i think. >> he's in and out, never anywhere too long. >> we've always said we've known him for over ten years, frank, and people say what's he like, what's he this, what's he that. you start thinking back and so much of it is he's always moving from table to table. very rarely have we ever sat down for longer than, you know, 30, 45 minutes and spoken with him beuse,s a maureen said, he's isolated in a sense, but he's everywhere. >> also famously short attention span which has been written about a lot and i think has great implications for the presidency. this is not someone who does anything in a sustained fashion. he flits from topic to topic, from fight to fight. so we don't know what that's going to mean for the next months or years. >> in some ways i think he always feels like he has too much to do to sit down and watch a movie or a game. i know someone who watched a movie with him at mar-a-lago and by the time it got to the scene everyone talks about in this movie with a bear and that guy, that actor. >> "the revenant".

>> whatever. he looked around and went, what? and just walked out of the room. but that's donald. he's not going to sit around and watch a whole movie if it doesn't make any sense. that didn't make sense. >> when he was talking about camp david, he said, yeah, it sounds beautiful. no, it sounds like a mignightma. he does not want to go to camp david and hang out. he wants to work. >> didn't the guy who wrote "the art of the deal" say he's not certain that donald trump has ever read an entire book. that's not the way his mind works. >> if you look at the beginning of "art of the deal" it's his management structure. he said i don't plan ahead, i show up at work, i wait and see what happens, i get on the phone and i call. all these years later that's what he's still doing, picking up the phone. there's a story i read yesterday, an a.p. reporter called him up, left a message on his phone, he called him back.

>> that same story says he's got his phone as you guys know and even when the number is not someone he knows, he'll answer the phone. which i wouldn't do that. >> no. >> is that reassuring or alarming? >> i don't know but now he's got the secure phone. >> keeps an open mind. >> that's the question, i think -- >> this is a big day for america. >> the presidency, how does it accommodate that particular mind-set and approach to every day? the presidency, as we've come to know it and understand it, doesn't function that way. it's more methodical, planned out, a little more structured. you have this asymmetrical person who comes into the job, does the job change him or does he change the job. that going to be an interesting dynamic to watch play out. >> i'm thinking as we look at these pictures right now of the president-elect leaving the blair house, going to st. joh s john's. he'll go to the white house and have tea with the obamas and be sworn in as president. this routine, this pageant that

we've seen so many times, how impossible this day seemed on june 16th, 2015 when he came down the escalator in trump tower. this day was never going to come. it was seen as a stunt at the time by donald trump to promote his businesses, to promote his brand, promote his tv show. now here we are, in three hours we'll be president of the united states. >> i still wonder to this day when he came down that escalator, did he really mean for this to happen. >> yes. >> mika says yes, i say no. i think he always believed that jeb bush would win, he would run as an independent, and that would actually feed into his brand. he is still surprised. >> okay, no. no and no. he's in awe of himself for sure but i will tell you the first time donald trump heard anybody laugh and it may have been before he went down the escalator, he may have said it somewhere. but the first time he heard someone laugh at the concept of him being president and i think it might have happened at the white house correspondent's dinner when president obama made fun of him, i think he said

really? and then two words came to mind that i cannot say on this show. >> is he elated today or is he daunted? >> i think more daunted than anything. >> i hope so. it's a day that should daunt a person. >> maureen, one of your favorite columns of the many, many columns i've always loved reading through the years was one where you talked about how we never know how a president is going to -- the character that a president will take on until the unforeseen action happens. george w. bush had promised to be a humble leader and have a humble foreign policy, and then as you said, 9/11 came and changed everything. >> right. how do those words apply to this man? >> well, because you never know what gremlins, what insecurities, will come out when they get in the white house and how that will interact with great historical events they

to deal with, and we saw that with. my sister and i have a bet of $20 that he is -- i'm betting that he will stop and do an infomercial in front of the trump hotel during the parade, and she's saying no, once he gets in the oval office he will be so odd, he'll become mature. >> we're looking right now at donald j. trump, the president-elect and his wife melania walking into st. john's church. this is a very historic landmark in itself and an historic moment. this is called the church of the presidents, and every president since madison has attended a service there at some point. there's even specific seating inside. pew 54 is the president's pew and is reserved for the chief executive in attendance. today marking the beginning of the event, president-elect trump and his family, you see them following through there all dressed to the nines leaving blair house and attending a service here at st. john's

church. and then the president-elect after this service will go to the white house for tea. >> we saw don jr. walk in behind ivanka trump and jared kushner who obviously are going to be -- there's tiffany. ivanka and jared obviously going to be two of the more powerful figures in this white house. >> last night at a don't event, president-elect trump was on stage and he singled out jared kushner and said that's the guy who's going to do what no one's been able to do, he's going to bring peace to the middle east. there's a little pressure for the 36-year-old publisher of a newspaper. >> he brought in this incredible team from houston to put together data and ad buys for

the trump campaign. they really almost came out of nowhere. >> there was actually a bloomberg business article about a week or two before the campaign saying what a mess they had made of their online operation. that story underestimated. >> run by brad parskal. >> when you look at a president and look back over the presidents that you've covered, is past always prologue with presidents, or do they rise to the occasion in ways nobody could foresee? >> harry truman rose to the occasion. he said you never know how a man will accept the responsibility of being president until he's in the job. you know that's what my sister is saying. she's saying when he's surrounded by all this awesomeness he will mature. and i'm saying not going to happen. >> you don't think it's going to happen? >> no. i'm not saying that he'll be a bad president. what i'm saying is i think he

will shape the presidency to himself. >> right. frank, what do you think? >> well, you know, i don't think he can change but so much. i remember back during the campaign he said after the election i'm going -- he said at any moment i'm going to start acting so presidential you'll get bored with it. i'm not bored. i don't think he can make that pivot. i'm not sure he wants to make that pivot. the question is does he tone it down enough that it doesn't feel ludicrous to all of americans but he's not going to go all the way to this somber human being. >> we interviewed him in trump tower in june and i said to him at that point, i said are you going to pivot because at that point it seemed essential and he went just like this, like a little kid. i don't think that's ever changed. >> what is the lesson he's learned from his short time in politics over a year and a half, that being purely himself is what has allowed him to succeed, so why now would he change? the only thing he knows is that

the people who he thinks are phony politicians all fell by the wayside one by one. >> but the problem is you didn't have responsibility for anything at that time. >> that's true. >> so it was easy to be the guy out there who's sort of throwing the bomb and sitting back and watching what happens. now it lands at your desk in the oval office. >> the greatest mistake that every president believes when they go into the office is they believe they are the first wise man who has ever crossed the threshold and they believe they figured out something that nobody figured out. this happens especially with disrupters, jimmy carter in 1976. he didn't even know how to make peace with tip o'neal. put tip o'neal way up in the rafters. pissed him off so much that not only did tip o'neal always poke at him, he even wrote about it in his autobiography, barack obama in the same way, they were

sure that the rules of washington would not apply to them. they apply to everybody. >> the one interesting thing that you didn't see in trump's campaign is he can be charming. you just didn't see it. a lot of people don't even know that. if he can use that quality even more -- >> can you explain that because -- >> we say that people explode at us. >> katie turr said last week after the camera, the most charming man in the entire world. >> i asked him during the campaign, i said why aren't you more like you've been when i've seen you in new york, why aren't you more like that. he made a joke last night that if the rain comes at least people will know his hair is real, you know, more like a normal kind of guy. and he just said he got to number one doing what he did, and he was afraid toove away from that. but he could incorporate more of that now when everyone is so scared and they think godzilla is coming to sort of calm people down. >> it is one of the great ironies and we've said this for

some time, that he is one person -- in fact, he's the opposite of what you see on tv because any book party that he ever goes to, all he does is go, this is the greatest book that you've written since the guttenberg bible. that's what he does and he showers other people with all this praise. it's all about them, he focuses on them, he lifts them up. but you put him behind a microphone on stage and it's just the opposite. >> when he came to the times maureen and i were there. he was very conciliatory, complimentary. he had that charm that maureen mentioned. so many presidents change behind the microphone. when you talked to george w. bush behind the stage, he was clever, thoughtful, engaging, loose. then he would get to a podium and the microphone and he would seem like he didn't even have a brain. it's interesting how these men who make their lives on a stage

are actually in many cases better off the stage. >> i think where that trump charm you're talking about helps is in talking to congress because he's the kind of guy who is going to pick up the phone, the guy who's going to answer every phone call. he's going to want tong them into the room to make deals. his life has been about making deals. where that comes in maybe you don't see it publicly but behind the scenes working with senators and congressmen. >> we just got some breaking news. leon tally, why is he not here? he was here last time, right? >> we need to talk. alex -- >> this is a great injustice. >> i'll bring him back another time. >> could he come down? we're on for a few more hours. >> right now? i'll ask him. >> i messed this up. i thought he was somewhere else. >> i'm sure he has a lot to say. >> oh, my gosh, can you imagine? >> he went shopping with medilaa

for her wedding dress and he knows everything. he said she's the most well moisturized person he's ever seen. >> see, that's why we needed him here. >> and you know he loves your fashion sense. >> yes, i know that. i saw your interview with him where he said he always hated it when mika and i dressed alike. i never knew that we did. >> but he gave you permission to wear shoes without socks because -- >> all right, this is going way after the rails. >> i've been doing that my whole life, but he told me eight years ago it was okay. >> yes. >> i'm doing it again this morning. it's actually a florida thing. no socks, no belts. d joining in in thi conversation about moisturizing and perfect fashion sense, none other than kentucky senator rand paul. >> great to see you. >> i have absolutely no comment about your feet. i refuse to talk about feet. >> come on, you can do it.

>> he wears socks. >> okay. >> senator, i read a politico article that donald trump was watching you on i think this show talking about the affordable care act and actually called you up and are you all talking about a way to replace obamacare? >> absolutely. i think we should have a replacement bill same day same time simultaneously exactly the same day, and we've been complaining about obamacare for six years. certainly we can have a replacement bill on the same day. i'm putting one together. it's in legislative language, and we'll release it to everybody tuesday or wednesday of next week. >> so i have a lot of republican friends who actually are on obamacare. will they have the same kind of coverage? there are a lot of -- you know, if you say, hey, i'll tell you what we're going to do, we're going to give you health savings accounts, they'll go what? they want coverage. >> i know but when you look at what happened under obamacare more people did get insurance but the vast majority of them got medicaid.

i'm assuming your friends are not on medicaid. so the thing is we want more people who are working class people who can't afford insurance to get insurance. so the main thing you have to do is the opposite of what obamacare did. you need to make insurance less expensive. >> how do you do that? >> well, you can't mandate what's in it. if you tell someone that insurance has to include ten different items like obamacare did, then it will be more expensive. we should let insurance be sold tohat the consumer wants. that's what we do in every other marketplace. >> donald trump has already said you've got the pre-existing conditions part has to be in there. kids shouldn't be bumped off until -- >> there are ways to get there and you can get there when you have leverage and enough people buying things. if you're an insurance pool of one person, you can't do that. you can't say, oh, you can wait until you get sick to buy insurance. in fact, there's one very important thing that everybody needs to know. you cannot insure against something that is already known.

so if we already know that you're dead, we can't sell you life insurance. if we already know that you're sick, we can't sell you insurance against being sick. insurance is against something that's unknown. now, you can take care of people and you're going to have to take care of people, but i've been saying that the real sick people that already have pre-existing conditions, it's dumb to buy them any sort of insurance, a risk pool, any of that. putting a bunch of sick people in a pool and buying insurance doesn't make sense. if they're poor you take care of them through a government program like medicaid and things like that. >> what about the middle class, you've got diabetes, you're 46 years old, you've lost your job. are you going to tell that person to go on medicaid? >> no. what you want to do for most people is you want to have enough people able to join together to have leverage, lower prices, regardless of a pre-existing condition. if i work for general motors and my wife is already sick and i get a job tomorrow, they're still going to give me insurance

because they're part of a big group of people. if you're a mom and pop and pest control business, it's terrible that you have to buy insurance by yourself. that should never happen, and government created that situation back in world war ii. i would let mom and pop pest control join together with 100,000 other people and buy their insurance as part of an association, and that leverage would lower prices but that leverage also allows them to buy insurance that can't be cancelled and protects them against getting sick and having their rates go up. >> the arcane language of health insurance is greek to most americans who hear you talking about it and other senators talking about it. the 20 million people or so who got health insurance coverage under the affordable care act just hear, they're going to take my coverage away, i'm enjoying covera that i didn'tave before and now it's going away. what do you say to them? >> it's not going to happen. we're going to give them a replacement. we're going to expand the number. the first thing to know about obamacare is millions of people don't have insurance now so obamacare wasn't perfect, and

that millions of people who did get coverage have gotten medicaid. the ideal type of coverage isn't medicaid. most people don't want to be on medicaid unless they have to be, unless they are unable to get a job. so part of the argument is you want a robust economy that creates more jobs. 3 million more people don't have to be on government assistance. >> senator rand paul, thank you so much, and maureen dowd, thank you. can you get andre here? i'm sort of serious actually? actual him and let us know. >> you know andre loves you guys. >> i'm sick to my stomach. frank bruny, thank you so much. >> he watches you every day. >> does he really? >> so listen, what you're looking at right now in the other shot here is live shots out of washington d.c. as history happens before our eyes. president-elect donald trump has left the blair house with his wife melania and the rest of his wife. they're right now attending a service at st. john's church,

the church of the presidents, a tradition there. in just about half-an-hour the president-elect and his wife is going to have tea at the white house with president obama and michelle obama. this is a tradition that was started back in 1877, the tea and coffee summit, which is typically held in the green room or the red room of the white house. you have the incoming and departing president in the same room at the same time. >> what year did that start? >> 1877. >> that was a rough election, too, wasn't it? >> bob woodward joins us next for this historic day. "morning joe" is going an extra hour today. live from washington. "when the ship comes in" by the hollies ♪ oh the fishes will laugh as they swim out of the path ♪ ♪ and the seagulls they'll be smilin ♪ ♪ and the rocks on the sand

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♪ so this journey began 18 months ago. i had something to do with it, but you had much more to do with it than i did. i'm the messenger. i'm just the messenger. we're going to do things that haven't been done for our country for many, many decades. it's going to change, i promise you it's going to change.

>> in less than three hours the powers of the presidency will be transferred to donald j. trump. moments ago the first family in waiting arrived at st. john's episcopal church steps away from the white house, continuing an inauguration morning tradition begun by franklin and eleanor roosevelt in 1933. trump is the first man with no prior experience in politics or the military to hold the office of the presidency, becoming the 45th president in a ceremony on the west front terrace of the capitol today at noon. the platform has been under construction since september. it is more than 10,000 square feet which ties the record for the largest in history. it's huge. soon it will be occupied by 1600 people, including supreme court justices, former presidents, the diplomatic core, cabinet nominees, members of congress,

governors, and the joint chiefs of staff for the 58th formal presidential inauguration in american history. >> you know, willie, there are -- we've been through this every day for three hours, and we've gone through it all for three hours and have seen this slowly unfold up to this point. as mika was reading, this is the first president with no experience in military or in government, i immediately went back to that moment when halpern and highliman had a bloomberg focus group and it was the first time -- >> new hampshire. >> -- that we said probably back in august of 2015, we said oh, my god, this go could win. there was a woman, i think she had tattoos all over, she was working class. >> hard working woman. >> she said, he's one of us. >> those words exactly.

>> those of us wringing our hands because he doesn't have the experience that 44 other presidents have had, that's exactly what the people wanted this year that voted for him. >> yeah, the people who were sick of everything that happens in this town, the people who were sick of the establishment. to them hillary clinton represented all of those things that they didn't want to see in the country anymore. >> they felt left out. >> it's going to be an interesting thing to watch today, too. david and i were just talking about this. up on that stage you'll have president obama and the first lady obviously. you'll also have bill and hillary clinton and hillary clinton will have to sit just a few feet away from donald trump, a man who got three million fewer votes than she did in this election. she will have to watch him be sworn in as president of the united states. talk about a difficult thing for her to have to watch but i think a very important gesture, an important thing that she is there to see this happen. i mean, it's still remarkable. i think we pause on this day. this is george washington. this is abram lincoln.

this is fdr, john f. kennedy, ronald reagan, all these giants have gone through this same passion and this same tradition, and now you add to that list donald j. trump. it's still a pretty shocking thing for people to see. >> it is shocking to those of us again in manhattan but not so for those on staten island, shocking to people in broward county but not in martin county, florida. and one of us, that phrase, the title of tom wicker's famous book about richard nixon, what was there about a billionaire developer in manhattan that connected to working class voters in appalachia? >> first of all, in his acceptance speech, he said i am your voice. as mika was going, wow, when he said the line yesterday when trump said i am just the messenger, now, i mean, he's

much more than the messenger. he's going to have staggering power. the concentration of power in the presidency these days is something that we actually can't understand because -- >> well, for those who were looking for it, that was humility. he was trying to express humility when he said i didn't do this, i'm just the messenger. the message was for those people that you were talking about, willie, the people in the rest of this country who are very excited about this day. >> that's right. any president, when they take office they have two things going for them. they have moral authority because they have the office, and they have the good will of most people. as you point out, hillary clinton is going to be sitting there on the stage. trump has less because of all the opposition and the anger and so forth. that speech is going to be a

pivot point. >> really is. >> because if the humility is there, if the sense of, okay, i am your steward, i'm looking out for you, i am your voice, and then there's some follow on that, you know, things could be better for him. but wow, is it an environment that people are out for him. >> we are watching these scenes at the dubliner in washington d.c. and you're looking at beautiful shots of the city that's really at the center of the political universe and the center of the world as it is the home of the president of the united states, and this is a city that is in transition. today donald j. trump will be inaugurated as the 45th president of the united states and the transfer of power, the literal physical transfer of power takes about five hours and you can really feel it here. on set here at the bar we've got columnist and editor for the

"washington post" david ignatius, "new york times" reporter jeremy peter and pulitzer prize winning associate editor bob woodward along with joe, willie and me. >> you have a nation that's a bit in shock. even republicans who have one of their own in the white house right now, they are wary, they are concerned. they are waiting to see if -- >> this is a moment that establishment republicans never imagined would happen and in truth fought hard to prevent from happening. they underestimated trump as frankly those of us in the media did again and again. we missed the fact that he was speaking for so many millions of people who were angry. i think the one thing i'd add to our conversation this morning is that there's a desire for change that he embodies but there's also a desire for stability. >> order.

>> americans want that. i think we all hope that in his inaugural address at noon today trump will speak to the whole country, not just the people who supported him. >> you see that in the poll numbers and i thought chuck schumer made a great point. 25% of americans are all in on trump. there are another 25% of americans that may have supported him but their support ebbs and flows. >> after he won, joe, he did try to speak to the whole country. in his acceptance speech he said i want to bind up the wounds of this divided country. then we saw him become more divisive in his tweets and his comments, and his popularity went down. hopefully today he'll again sound that theme, i want to bind up the wounds of the country. >> jeremy, there are interesting paradoxes when you look at the numbers. yes, donald trump is the agent of change and that's why he got in, but the president from which they want change is leaving office with a 60% approval

rating. they want to turn over the tables in the temple but the country by and large likes president obama. >> and did not like the idea of hillary clinton. there's been a lot of writing lately about whether trump actually won the election or hillary clinton lost it. i think you could make a very strong case that indeed what happened is the country didn't endorse -- just look at the popular vote numbers, right? she did win, so this was hers that ended up slipping away. >> right. >> it was not necessarily an endorsement of donald trump. go back to what you were saying about trump's humility, it's always hard as you know to tell when trump is being sincere or when he's saying things that he thinks that people want to hear. so when he says i'm just your voice, i'm just this humble servant here, i don't know, maybe there were flashes, little glimmers of that that i saw over the course of the campaign, like when he said to me right before the election, i'm really trying

to reign it in and i'm not going to tweet as much and we saw that happen for about six weeks and then he's picking fights. >> i think he's completely genuine. i don't know why we have to question every word. >> the interesting thing is when he tweets -- >> it's totally genuine. >> he thinks that he is speaking to the diseffected voters out there. if he tweaks the press, if he tweaks the establishment, if he tweaks the republican establishment, if he tweaks hollywood, that is donald trump thinking i am connecting with my voters. perhaps he is, but there is a price to that. >> yeah. >> and we see that price in falling poll numbers, that, yes, his hard core support is wit him, but there are a lot of other people that voted for him because they did not want to

vote for hillary clinton, who are very concerned. >> there are two sides to this story, two stories happening today. there's a president taking office and then there's a president leaving office. in his 2009 book, "the audacity to win", former campaign manager recalled one exchange with president obama that revealed the 44th president's thoughts about leaving office. a conversation he had with over then senator obama over who he should choose as his running mate. i wish i didn't have this hanging over my vacation. well, i said sarcastically, if we pull this off, you can consider it a practice run for all of your vacations over the next eight years. remember, when you leave office you'll be in aarp but no so old. you still have a few enjoyable vacations left. obama laughed. right, he said, that's why i'm working so hard, so at 55 i can have unquestionably the best job

in the whole world. ex-president. so bob woodward, you've studied obama closely. what will be the ex-president's next act? >> well, i think you're going to find he's going to go on the speaking circuit and he's going to write a book. he has told some people he would like to go to alaska or head a startup of some kind. so i think that's quite possible, but you know, he fades for a while. this is trump's show. what's interesting, if we had trump here and we said what's the condition of the country that you are inheriting the leadership of, i think in the foreign affairs field he would say we are being handed a series of messes.

i think that's true. the other thing is i think he would say he feels the media is against him. not just the intelligence community but the media. and i think we have a job in the media to be ugh, aggressive, but so fair that the stories and the coverage has to ring with this kind of authentic we're presenting his side because he thinks -- and there's an abundance of evidence that the media is just gunning for him in a way that's not empirical. there's anger out there. people are raddled in our business, and we have to get over that. >> i agree. >> david, as we were reading david fluff's words, it struck me that barack obama and the first lady, still the first lady and the president, there was

ambivalence that hung over them about being in the white house, much like there was ambivalence to george w. bush who, after he finished working, would go upstairs and watch "sportscenter." a staffer told me one time, if you want to know how disconnected he was, somebody brought up keith olbermann's name about five years after he had a show and he said i sure love him and said he's great on "sportscenter." he didn't go upstairs. he didn't obsess over cable news. he didn't obsess over -- but barack obama was that way as well. you got the sense that he was there but it wasn't a job that he loved the way bill clinton loved the job or donald trump will love the job. >> this is donald trump's day but it is also the day in which we say good-bye to president obama. it's worth looking back. it's a remarkable story, the first african-american president

and first lady. whatever else people will say about the obamas, they were exemplary people, as parents, as role models for basic civility and decency. they accomplished, i think, an enormous amount. you point to maybe obama's biggest failure. this is a man who didn't like politics. he didn't like to go mess it up. he didn't really like talking to members of congress. as we saw over the last eight years, it's tough to be a good president if you don't like politics. >> not only did he not like talking to members of congress, he did not have the desire that bush 41 had to talk to allies, to build alliances, to get to know people personally. that just wasn't who he was. >> he was a distanced man. in the first year he was in office one of his closest aides turned to me and said, you know,

barack obama would really like to be a supreme court justice. he's not all that thrilled with being president. i never forgot that because i think there's a truth to that. >> mika and i, bob woodward, actually went in and talked to the president, i guess it was in 2012 maybe. who knows. we can't remember. but we talked to him for a good hour or so in the oval office. as we were talking, mika was talking to him about how her father always invited republicans over to the house and would have people like bob gates and condi rice and others working for him. mika said, growing up most of my friends were republican kids because my dad was always trying to work with republicans. president obama, his response was pretty incredible. he said, well you know, i work until 6:00 and then i go upstairs and that's my time with

the family. i don't really want to mix socializing with family life, which was again different than most other presidents looked at the job. >> and not only with republicans but with members of his own party especially. >> yeah. >> he had a distance there and there was a tone of con da sense that they felt. i think david ignatius is right. there is a decency in all of this. obama has really gentle, truly cerebral side. i think that -- in fact i know he has told people who are clo to him that the presidency has taken a physical and psychological toll on him that he did not anticipate. >> that's why he's saying he needs a little quiet.

>> peggy knew than wrote a book saying, regardless of your political affiliation, barack obama has shown extraordinary character over the past years and should be an example to every president that follows. >> not just over the last eight years but specifically over the last two months where you have this transition taking place and the outgoing president has been incredibly gracious to the point where trump has actually said, maybe this guy's not so bad. to think how far apart trump and president obama were is an extraordinary thing. >> so button up this conversation, the president has tweeted, not the president-elect. trump has not tweeted, but president obama has. he says this. he's tweeting his new website. as we look forward, i want our first steps to reflect what matters most to you. share your thoughts with me at obama.org. there you go. the president taking a que from

the president-elect and tweeting on his way out the door. he's got a website. >> i spent a good bit of time yesterday with kellyanne conway, the incoming counsellor to donald trump, and she went out of her way to say how gracious this obama white house has been. i think they were even surprised by how gracious, valerie jarrett so kellyanne conway talking that way but particularly the president of the united states to the president-elect, taking the time, taking his calls, giving calls whenever he needed. president obama grasps how important what's happening today is, which is that this transfer of power is peaceful obviously but also respected by him so that the country can move forward at a time when it's divided. >> on the right side of your screen you're looking at a live shot of st. john's church where the service there is wrapping up and the president-elect will be heading to the white house. we'll be following that up next on our special coverage. senator al franken who had kind of an interesting exchange with the nominee for energy secretary

rick perry. we'll have that for you. senator franken joins us along with senator mark warner as barack obama finishes the final few hours of his presidency. >> what are you going to do on the 21st when you wake up? i don't know where you're going to be where you wake up but you're going to wake up where you're not president. >> here's one thing. i'm not setting my alarm. that i'm certain of. that i'm absolutely positive of. i'm going to spend time with michelle. we got some catching up to do. we've both been busy.

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that i'm absolutely positive . ♪ we're turning around some tape for you soon of president obama leaving the oval office. you see st. john's church, the church of the presidents, a tradition sincback i 1977

where new presidents go to a church service the morning of their swearing in. and on the right you see the crowds gathering, many of them wearing "make america great again" hats, and of course a lot of rain gear. so the weather not helping the situation today but still pretty big crowd out there in washington as the city takes part in a transition unlike any other. joining us now, member of the judiciary committee, democratic senator al franken of minnesota and the vice chairman of the intelligence committee, democratic senator mark warner of virginia. good to have you both on board. >> why don't you tell us first of all, senator franken, what happened on your couch when rick perry and you were having such a good time in your office. >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> it was on the couch, something about the couch. >> a light moment at the hearing that makes -- we're being interrupted here.

>> this is actually -- we'll get back to that. >> wait a minute, we have to explain what actually happened before we cut away to something important. >> take a look at this video because this is fascinating. this is history as we watch it before our eyes. president obama in the oval office for the last time. there is a tradition where the president leaves a letter for the incoming president and he leaves it in the desk and it is that private connection between the two of them who are now both officially in what is known as the president's club. >> and you talked to incoming presidents and they will tell you how important that note always is to them. but you also hear stories, whether it was talking about when lyndon johnson left the office in january of 1969 or pat buchanan telling us as ronald reagan walked out of the office for the last time he turned around and he said, you know,

the low point of my presidency -- the last thing reagan said before walking out -- was when we lost the marines in beirut, talking about over 240 marines who were killed back in i believe it was '83, the fall of '83. so this is obviously quite a moving moment for any president, especially a presidentho served for eight years, willie, and made the history that this president made. >> that's quite a moment we're looking at there. he pulls the drawer of that famous desk open and places the letter inside for the incoming president, donald j. trump, a man obviously he didn't support and a man he obviously never expected to occupy that office. >> probably taking in just a few final moments for himself looking around that office and reflecting on eight years there. >> and the ladders are up. senator franken, i'm always shocked at how quickly and how

ruthlessly efficient power changes hands in this process. maybe it's three, four, five hours tops where they completely change the functioning of the white house to fit the new president. >> well, that's the way our system works. that's why i'm going to be there today. this is something we do with a peaceful transition of power. i was not for this president-elect. i really admire this president who's leaving. >> i was going to ask you, what are your thoughts about president obama as you see him leaving the oval office for the last time? >> well, he's a man who -- i listened to your last panel. i think they had it right. he conducted his job with incredible dignity, intelligence, respect for the american people. i admire him tremendously. >> and senator warner, i ask the same of you and also of joe biden, another man who conducted

himself with great dignity over the past eight years. >> i think america's going to miss them both. whether you supported them, loved them or hated them, they both conducted themselves with great grace and dignity. you think about all blowups that take place in politics. this is an administration that for eight years while there was policy challenges, there was never a hint of scandal. >> family unity. >> family unity. >> amidst even family tragedy. >> i think americans will miss the obamas and the bidens. >> i agree. >> what is barack obama's legacy that he leaves? >> he achieved a lot. he came in with the economy tanking in a very, very scary way. about 800,000 jobs lost the month that he was sworn in. he leaves us with 80-some months of private sector job growth.

he really came in in a crises and leaves the country in a much, much better place. a lot has happened, and one of the things that i'm most afraid of is that the achievement of the affordable care act which, if you look at what the affordable care act has done, when i was retuunning for officn 2008 along with mark, i'm sure he had the same experience that every vfw went into, every cafe, up on the board someone had a thing saying we were having a spaghetti dinner or a burger bash for this family that's gone bankrupt because they went through their -- they got sick. someone got sick and they went through their lifetime cap. >> that doesn't happen anymore and what i'm very afraid of as they say they're going to repeat and replace, they do not have a

plan. i'm on the help committee. i'm very concerned about congressman price. >> do you share those concerns about congressman price and what happens to obamacare? >> absolutely. congressman price is going to appear before the finance committee next week. i've got a series of questions. obamacare was not perfect. what i find remarkable is critics have had eight years to come up with an alternative plan. if they go forward with this process where they repeat without a replacement, the disruption to not only the 20 million americans that will lose their healthcare, folks with pre-existing conditions like my daughter who's got type one diabetes, but everybody else in the private insurance market will see disruptions as well. it would just be so irresponsible. >> that's why i don't think that's going to happen. if they don't have a plan, they're not taking away healthcare. >> they seem to have been so caught up in this slogan of let's replace without the

responsible nature of what the replacement is going to be. >> as important as policy is, watching those images of president obama, i was struck about how he's a generational figure. i always hear about the way people talked about john f. kennedy, the way a lot of republicans would talk about ronald reagan. regardless of what happens with the affordable care act, it is crucial of course but at the same time the way people in their 20s and 30s talk about president obama, he was someone who defines the generation. bush was there when 9/11 happened and that's a searing memory, but obama, especially for young progressives, i think that legacy lives on, even if some of his policies are dismantled. >> we're looking at donald trump right now leaving along with melania trump and the family, leaving st. john's church, and he will be going across the street, across lafayette park, and enter the white house to greet barack obama and have tea. i guess mika told me this

morning, it goes back to 1877, and that was quite a contested election also between hayes and tildon. >> this is the tea and coffee summit where they're headed to. it's typically held in the green room or the red room of the white house. it includes the incoming and departing vice-presidents as well as their spouses, a show of civility regardless of party. it's going to be fascinating to hear about that. of course only the people present will really know what that moment is like, but i can tell you that michelle obama and melania trump will no doubt talk about something that they have in common. they're both really great moms. and what it's like to raise children in the bubble of the white house and the challenges, it's something melania is very concerned about. in fact, she's leery about moving to washington until she's fully ready to bring their son baron with them. i know that will be an instant

connection for them during this summit. >> we are about to share a moment though that i think speaks again to the character not only of president obama but also the character of so many of our leaders recently. al, when harry truman and dwight eisenhower went through this process, there were strained feelings. a lot of anger. you could say the same thing about ike didn't really think a whole lot of jfk. lbj didn't think a lot a nixon. jimmy carter and ronald reagan had that famous icy drive. but over the past three or four transitions of power we have really seen president obama giving his best to america, even though it hurts, george w. bush doing the same thing to barack obama even though, as valerie jarrett told me, we ran against

george bush. we didn't run against john mccain, and yet they showed us such respect. we owe that to the people that are replacing us. this is america at its best. >> i mean, i will have to give president obama real credit here because here's a guy, donald trump, who questioned his legitimatesy not just as president but as an american. >> and divided people against him. >> yeah, i mean, tried to undercut his legitimacy as president of the united states. president obama i think rose to the occasion properly, but i think we feel -- i think we owe a real debt to barack obama and the way he carried himself these eight years. >> we've seen that -- we saw it with -- >> and i hope today marks a

transition for donald trump. i don't think -- you know, i hope today in his speech he reaches out to the americans who didn't vote for him. i don't think he has been doing that. >> right. >> since election day. that was an understatement. it was almost the humor of understatement. >> i got it. no, i got it. >> by the way, it was so dry that we were all laughing inside. we did see this though, bush 41 was just pounded on the campaign trail by bill clinton for 14 months, and yet they became close friends. >> you've seen that with the bushes and clinton, president obama, bush 43. my first elected office was governor of virginia. i've been a business guy. it took me a few months to fully understand what all the aspects of state government did. that's tiny compared to the role

that mr. trump is stepping into. one of the things about mr. trump is he zuds confidence. i hope he has a little humility with both the responsibility he has to the operations of national government but also the fact that in this role his words will matter so much. in many ways his words will actually matter more abroad than they do here. and that level of responsibility and again some sense of humility is what i'm hoping to see from the president-elect. >> joe brought up the transition between president truman and president eisenhower and it reminded me of one of my favorite quotes in politics. this is truman talking about ike. he'll say do this, do that, and nothing will happen. poor ike. it won't be a bit like the army. he'll find it very frustrating. >> yeah, that's a very good point. >> president trump is an outsider coming to washington. >> he's used to cutting that deal, getting that job done. >> senator franken, eight years

ago a lot was made of mitch mcconnell's quote that he said the republicans' objective was to make president obama a one-term president. a lot of people pointed that as evidence that republicans were never interested in working with obama. i'm interested in your posture right from the beginning with donald trump. do you view your role as opposing him as a democrat or would you like to sit down and work with him? >> there are going to be areas hopefully where we're going to be able to work together. trump has said he would like to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies, bring down the cost of prescription drugs in medicare for example and throughout the healthcare system. i'm totally for that. he's talked about an infrastructure, you know, a huge project, if the devil is in the details but i would love to do that if we did that in the right way. but i'm going to be challenging him.

i think this is a proper role for us rather than trying to undercut him so he's a one-term president. i've always thought that was wrong. i thought it was wrong that republicans got together before he was sworn in and said we're going to vote against everything and make sure that he has no achievements. i think that's absolutely the wrong approach for us to take, but i do think that we should challenge him and that's why i've been in these confirmation hearings. i've been tough on some of the nominees who i think would take us in the wrong direction. >> i think this election was almost a primal scream from a lot of americans saying things aren't working right. it was as much a rejection of democrats establishment republicans, business. i think there are forces here in global information and technology that in a lot of ways and i say as a former business guy, modern american capitalism

with a focus on short term business is not working for a lot of people. trump if he's willing to be disruptive, there can be positive disruption or negative disruption. i hope we can find ways to work together because the idea with the host of problems that our country faces, we go back into gridlock and lockdown, that's going to take the new administration to reach out. >> we are watching dramatic moments, perhaps the most dramatic moments of the inauguration. here the bidens are waiting for the pences to be taken out of the car. they will join up with each other and meet. joe biden obviously along with jill have served this country for so many years, endured great hardship over the past eight years. joe biden always showed extraordinary humanity in connecting with the american people in a way that i think few

other politicians certainn this era have. they are walking in hando hd with the pences. mike pence is really seen as the one person in the entire trump transition on the trump team that actually has washington experience, knows how washington works, and is a man whose fingerprints are going to be all over so many of the nominations -- the nominees that we're seeing right now, and also, bob woodward, obviously mike pence is going to play a critical role in this administration being the sherpa of sorts for an inner circle around donald trump that actually does not know how washington works. >> and he has this way, this kind of calm projection of how he's comfortable with

everything, the extent to which he's comfortable with trump and in many ways he's trump's best defender. >> joe, i was thinking, too, watching vice-president biden there that there are a parallel universe where joe biden is taking the oath of office. obviously there were circumstances, the tragic loss of his son that he decided he needed to be with his family. now we see the first lady coming out to greet the president-elect and the incoming first lady. these are the moments of history here and we're watching them. joe biden obviously explained to us that morning in philadelphia during the democratic national convention what hillary clinton and her campaign were doing wrong in not reaching out to those kind of voters, and he was proven correct in the end. >> we're watching right now the end of the obama era as president and the beginning of the trump era as president-elect donald trump is driving up to

greet the first family and this special tea and coffee summit will happen where the outgoing president and the incoming president will connect and talk and mark the moment before the inauguration. >> this is a relationship that i think it's safe to say began about as turbulently and publicly as possible. donald trump actually questioning the citizenship of barack obama. >> and obama mocking publicly -- >> and obama when given the chance, deboning donald trump in front of the white house press association, and many people point to that moment as the moment that donald trump said, okay, this time i'm going to run for president. >> there's no question, joe, that this story began with bitter rivalry, trump trying

almost to delegitimize barack obama, questioning his citizenship, but one of the finest things barack obama has done as president, i would say, is the way he prepared to hand it over to this man, and to open the way for a transition that would be in the country's interest. i think the country really owes obama a debt and trump a debt for listening to him. >> so what we're seeing right now is president-elect greeting president obama, melania with a tiffany's box gift, sharing kisses with michelle obama and this greeting and a handing over of a beautiful gift. what an incredible moment on so many levels, given the rivalry between these two men, the rivalries that emerged throughout the campaign. the first ladies arm in arm. remember the speeches at the conventions. so much behind them and so much

to look forward to together, unified here. president obama really carrying that mantle of civility and open-mindedness was we looked forward to this next presidency, the president leading the charge, obama leading the charge on having an open mind and helping this presidency succeed. >> you know, bob woodward, there are a lot of things, a lot of signals that the united states of america sends across the world that baffles and confuses allies and that heartens enemies, but this is one, what we saw over the past 90 seconds, that actually gets to the essence of what makes this republic endure and what makes it great. >> it's quite moving to see it. >> it's beautiful. >> and to see michelle obama kind of brush the lint off her husband's back, kind of getting

him ready for this. and there's a lot of political animosity here but i think in a constitutional and emotional sense, there is some affection. if you had barack obama on sodium pentothal, he would say i want trump to succeed. >> absolutely, and there's a connection because this moment they are connected in a way that no other people on earth are and they're part of that club, they're part of that group of people who can only understand what it's like. >> and we've really figured out how to do this and i think if you want to point to one man has really made the greatest difference over the last quarter century, it would have to be george h.w. bush -- >> hope he's well. >> -- who in january of 1993 had

to welcome a man to the white house that many of his followers found to be illegitimate, didn't believe was worthy to replace george h.w. bush. george w. bush accepted him in, not only to that white house but also to their family. they will tell you, and we were at kenny bunk port this last summer and barbara bush said he feels like a son to us. >> i think it started with that letter. if you have not read the letter from george h.w. bush to bill clinton and you want to talk about class, grace, that's what america is all about is in that letter. i was thinking of bob. all these tensions here in the city about trump and the transfer of power. bob saw it up close more than anyone in 1974. the inauguration of gerald ford and nixon. the country was tense then. it survived. >> it was and richard nixon, in departing the presidency, got off one of the really lines for

him in that era and it applies now. nixon said, always remember others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself. that hate is the poison and that you have to bleach that out as much as possible. nixon knew that that was the driver of his presidency too much and that did destroy him. we talked before about the importance of kindness, just a kind of human gentleness that needs to infect the presidency. you can be tough and pound the table, but people need to have that sense that you have core caring. >> as we watch this moment again that just took place a couple of minutes ago, donald trump and his wife melania arriving with

tiffany's box in hand, a gift for the first lady and the president, as they now enjoy their last moments in the white house do the obamas. i actually have that letter in fronted of me, bob, that you referred to. president george h.w. bush, the 41st president of the united states, having been denied a second term by a young governor from arkansas, bill clinton, left this letter. i'll read part of it. dear bill, when i walked into this office just now i felt the same sense of wonder and respect i felt four years ago. i know you will feel that, too. i wish you great happiness here. i never felt the loneliness some presidents have described. there will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. i'm not a very good one to give advice. but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course. you will be our president when you read this note. i wish you well. i wish your family well. your success is now our country's success. i am rooting for you. good luck, george. that from george h.w. bush to

bill clinton as he entered on this moment into the white house. >> and the one thing that george h.w. bush understood and that too many republicans did not understand in 2009 and 2010 is that you cannot root against the president of the united states without rooting against the country that he or she governs. >> joe, i think the tableau that we've just been watching with the trumps and the obamas standing together in front of the white house is one that we're all going to want to take away from this morning because it's the symbol of the basic strength and stability of our country, that we have this democratic process of transfer. there are other signs that i found heartening these last few days, the announcement that some key subcabinet officials, the deputy secretary of defense, the

head of the national counter-terrorism center, others, will be asked to stay on in this new administration, and that continuity, as we look at president george w. bush, it was a key element of stability and transition. it's good to know that president-elect trump has made a similar decision with some of these officials. >> you can see george w. -- >> george w. bush is having a good time. >> he was always loose. >> reconnecting with a d.c. cop and he just looks really chipper. >> he does. and you know, bob woodward, that is another thing, too, that americans brutalize and the media brutalizes and everybody brutalizes the president when he is in office, one day soon when she is in office, but it's

always amazing that as time passes, americans look at george w. bush and his family, look at jimmy carter and his family, look at these past presidents and actually feel a sense of gratitude for all they did for the country and all they sacrificed for the country. and we will obviously be thinking the same of barack obama very soon. >> and george w. bush has of course receded, has not stayed in the public eye. he's taken up painting. i wonder if he's asked permission there to set up his easel and paint this lovely picture of the transfer of power. >> isn't it amazing, though, how quiet he has been over the past eight years? he told barack obama when he was leaving "i owe you my silence."

and he's given it. >> joining us fm capitol hill, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker with word from capitol hill. >> reporter: good morning. you can feel the excitement here. i am in the vip section. the vips are starting to trickle in. we got some rain drops earlier today. so for about 20 minutes or so, the seats were being wiped off to make sure they were nice and dry for the vips when they arrived and the choirs are wearing ponchos in case we get some more rain drops today. we are expecting this to be a really exciting place for this to be. the people we are watching for, the clintons. this will be the first time that hillary clinton and donald trump are in the same place at the same time since that bitter 2016 battle. so the optics of that are going

to be worth watching. and of course the bushes, former president bush and laura bush just arriving, former president george h.w. bush will not be here. he announced that weeks ago but he was hospitalized. we'll be watching for ivana trump. eric, her son, signaling she'll be in the crowd as well. and then everyone you expect, the supreme court justice, the democratic leaders, more than 60 democratic members of the house saying they're going to boycott this event. for the folks that are arriving, there is a sense of unity, excitement and anticipation that is setting in here. once all of the events here at the u.s. capitol wrap up, president trump, his family, will hit the parade route. i'm going to be on a flatbed truck. one of the things we'll be watching for is dr. president

trump get out at himself hotel? is he going to start walking at that very moment? is he going to start waving? we'll be watching to see if that happens. i've been talking to transition officials who say expect soon after he is sworn into office, he will start to issue executive actions. among the ones he'll be focused on, trade, national security and of course immigration. guys, back to you. >> kristen, thank you. >> thank you so much. let's bring in the "new york times" jeremy peters. jeremy, you have a report that i think actually plays into the spirit o the moment about the executive orders that the president-elect was considering to sign. >> that's right, joe. over the last few weeks there's been debate inside trump tower about just how quickly to start unwinding a lot of the policies that president-elect trump said he would as he was campaigning for president. these involve the epa, banking, immigration and what i'm told now is that they will do this on

a rather slow basis, they will begin to trickle out these executive orders, these new policy pronouncements over the course of the next 30 days. >> steve bannon and others had wanted a shock-and-awe strategy. that's not going to happen. donald trump has decided to do it more slowly. >> it's been described as a rolling thunder. >> i remember jimmy carter's first day signing an executive order that gave clemency to vietnam -- where i call from, we call them draft dodgers, and i remember thinking -- and bill clinton signed a similar exit have order regarding abortion early on, and it created a divisive atmosphere early in the

process. this certainly seems to be the more prudent approach. >> donald trump i think -- i hope has seen during the transition that polarizing statements undercut his ability to be a successful president. i think he wants to be a good and effective president. i would just note one element of continuity. i visited with susan rice, the national security adviser this week. she said she had prepared 20 studies of potential crises, at the top of that last where she's really talked with the president-elect is north korea. there's been a real effort to hand across all the things that are important for security to the new president and that's good. >> underscore what david said. top on the list of problem areas in the world is north korea, and it is it's got to be managed in

a very careful and thoughtful way. as you know, president obama has told people that north korea is what keeps him up at night. >> if you could, just talk about the gravity of this day, getting the nuclear codes, for example, as a president. this really is the day where i this it sets in the magnitude of this job, what you're responsible for and what you have the power to do. >> donald trump soon after noon will inherit control of the most powerful military and military arsenal in the world, in a world that is returning to the kind of danger that we remember. people my age growing up during the cold war in which you really would worry about the risk that nuclear weapon could be used. that will now fall on donald trump's shoulders. it would be remarkable if this man who has no political experience, no experience in the military, isn't really changed

by that. and i bet pretty quickly. he is now steward not just to the united states but of the network of alliances, of partnerships. i spoke this week with one of our top military leaders who said we've been trying to speak to the world, an anxious world, and say there is continuity in our military, in our intelligence service. those are the institutions that donald trump has to reach out to. >> today we lay the groundwork and set the scene for the inauguration of the 45th president of the united states, donald j. trump. as we close our coverage, joe, your thoughts since this election began, since donald trump and melania went down that escalator to today. >> we do not know what is ahead. i think more than any other time in this nation's history. i've always been a big believer and i think reading history has

always shown not only this country but over the past 5,000 yea years, past is always pro llogu you always have that public record to look to in trying to project forward what type of president we're going to see. this time we are looking into an abyss because donald trump's life, his professional life, has been behind the walls of trump tower, a fairly isolated existence with people around him who have followed his orders. that changes today.

>> he's part of something bigger. >> it's anybody's guess how he will respond to that. >> you've been watching "morning joe"'s special coverage. >> we're so grateful, thank you so much for being with us, david ignatius, jeremy peters. and we want to thank everybody who came out to the governor, for coming out and i've got to say, the tab, the bill for the guiness that they have drunk, it's going to be quite -- >> it's on us. >> this 58th inauguration of the president of the united states, a transfer, peaceful model is the envy of the world. our coverage continues right now with brian williams. >> good morning. thanks to the morning team for the last four hours. we will take you the rest of the way. brian williams here of course with rachel maddow.