watch or follow me on twitter at facebook and so much more. "hardball" starts now. here is chris. size matters day four. let's play "hardball." good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. white house held first briefing. when press secretary sean spicer criticize the media on the size of the crowd. he was following his boss orders. here is trump himself o saturday. >> we had a massive field of people. you saw them, packed.

i get up this morning, i turn on the network and though an empty field. i said wait a minute, i made a speech. i looked out the field looked like a million, million and a half people. >> spicer followed up later that evening. >> compares to 317,000 that used it for president obama last inago raul this was the largest audience to within inauguration period. in person and around the globe. there's a lot of talk to hold donald trump accountable. it goes two ways. we're going to hold press accountable as well. >> the numbers used are disputed. today spicer said information about ridership was given to him by the inaugural committee.

reporters were courteous and orderly. spicer himself was well prepared it made news on a number of fronts. when the matter of size came up again. let's watch. >> you stand by yourself that was the most watched inaugural address. >> it was. when you look at one network alone got 16.9 million online. there were ten of million of people that watch it online. never mind the audience here. 31 million watched it on television. >> later this -- today after press briefing donald trump tweeted up this photo. without commenting he was fighting the battle of the mall on the fourth day andouing.

spicer in the media trying to undermine trump's credibility. here is sean spicer. >> it's not about a crowd size. it's about constant here is not going to run. if he run he going to drop out, if if you won, it's there's constant theme to undercut support e has. the defult narrative is always negativeme negative. when we're wrong say we're wrong. it's not always wrong whether negative. >> by-- no decision has been ma to move embassy to jerusalem or israel. so where do things stand right now. susan page, dan rather -- i have

to go to dan. i thought the efforts by the press secretary was professional. there were moments when it came issue of audience size i didn't think it made sense. a lot of people that went to the obama inaugural people, a lot of them african-american who had never came down to the mall but came for that event. i done think he can compare that amazing event, with trump's -- it wasn't the same event. you're thought. >> first of all, the trump administration, president trump for days including the weekend, they were on a trash the press strategy. the president himself in a very inappropriate venue at cia venue

saying the press is most dishonest people around. followed up outrage out performance of the new press secretary spicer delivering what can be classified as a lie. moving out of the room having guts to answer questions looked terrible. off to a terrible start. somebody hit reset in the white house we should be applauding what happened in the wlous it was reset for the day. on part of the press secretary who came prepared, he moved along swiftly and jointly for the most part truthly, the press was respectful. this is what we the people of the united states expect in a press briefing. we will see how long this reset hold i'm hoping it holds

straight through. the new press secretary said i will never lie to you. that's good. it was kind of a nix sewnian momentum when it gets back to the obsession with the size of the crowds. pakistan is talking about using nuclear weapons against india. north korea developing weapon to hit u.s. we have enormous problem in this country we need a mutual respectfulness between the press and the white house. there's nothing more important than president trump that he develop trust between leadership and -- event undercut that, it undercut trump's presidency they hurt country overseas. we hope to have more like today

and have -- zero we had over the weekend. it would be bad for journalism and bad for the country. >> thank you for coming. right now pompeo toe next cia director. expected to rin confirm mak-- confirmation. i go back to what dan rather just said. i got a lot of information out of it it. i was looking at the embassy has not been decided, the highways, the freight, ten trillion drars on infrastructure, a lot of this is good, a lot of good news. i thought. what do you think went crazy. why did he get emotional.

>> you hit the nail on the head. i believe it was about saturday not just about saturday, the numbers that were there. >> the women's march. it was about alaska, london, globally. size and the numbers matters. i believe what happened in listening to folks inside the white house, i believe it was immediacy of the numbers. so then he came out today saying it was about hoes who viewed it. as well those who were there. >> on the internet. >> yes. they did not want to talk about saturday, but saturday was a hard blow for them. >> why do you think the message of -- i think size matters in terms of voices. i think people are impressed by big crowds.

it does matters. that many people care to show up. >> look at the numbers they were were stunning. >> no violence. >> zero. >> this was started with a facebook posting. >> in hawaii. >> one woman. >> i think it was better. >> this raises challenges for the democratic party. can they channel the energy we saw in new york and whington and seattle. in my hometown they had a wichita with a red place. can they challenge that. >> i'm going to ask stephanie sure lock, somebody took names to contact the women. >> that's one of the test, did they. >> kellyanne conway -- she coined a new term, alternative

facts. i think that is was unfortunate for her. let's watch. >> you did not answer the question of why the president asked the white house press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time a and utter a falsehood. where did he do that. >> don't be so overly dramatic about it. you're saying it's a falsehood and they are giving sean spicer gave alternative facts to that. >> alternative facts for the five facts he uttered. that's are not facts they're falsehood. >> kellyanne is as smart as a

whip. alt-facts. you know what that means. that's coming. >> to say it was unfortunate is to put it mildly. this was a big mistakes. we cannot, none of us have go into in world of what alternative facts. two plus two equals four. that's a fact. waut water runs downhill, that's a fact. the idea of alternative fact is a propaganda too. ms. conway is a smart laid and he did not offhandly say this. i don't think even most of the trump supporters want us to -- facts and truth is as humanly pab possible to get to the

truth. we all know this. we have to be careful not just in journalism but the public in large has to think careful about this propaganda of alternate facts. >> there's certain thing you want the fact, you don't want to hear the commentary, you want to know what won the game. >> no chaser. this alternative facts deinvolved into follows hood. it's your true, my trust and somewhere in the middle there's the facts. when you talking about alternative facts it makes you question about the numbers, it's the size that matter, the it's sad. you don't use that room, that podium to have a whose bigger match.

>> speaking of cia headquarters, on saturday donald trump blamed the press. he said we made it up. >> as you know i have a warn war with the media they are among the most dishonest human beings on earth. [ applause ] >> they made it sound like i had a feud with the intelligence community. i want to let you know the reason you're number one stop is it is exactly the opposite. exactly. they understand that too. >> theact is it wasn't the media. donald trump mocked and criticize the intelligence community. he rejected intelligence report of russia's meddling in the report. it was the -- after a

unsubstantiated dossier was leaked he said this. >> i think it was disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be false and fake out. i think it's a disgrace. i say that i say that, that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do. >> that was was christopher walken moment there. there wasn't this match of vit troal. -- >> i don't know why he think he can blueser his way through it. by attacking the press he can undermine the ability of the press even more. when there's critical support of him -- the clips you can show the tweets that are at odds with

him. >> you were great today. >> thank you. >> there seems to be something new which is run the clock. bill clinton had the problem with answering all of that, he lied, came out it was by then too late, the anger defense him was gone. he got through it. trump would do this, you say president obama is infiltrator into the country, nobody new him in school. one day he says, he american, he whats born here. when everybody for gigets about. the thing about the tax return, kellyanne this week says he never go to release his taxes. if you run the clock a story as ridiculous and absurd as it is, i frank sinatra would say,

it got me through the night. they seem to be winning at it. your thoughts, dan rathers. >> short term it may work but there is where the road gets so important. the question needs to be steady. see road as honest -- when he changes his tune, lies, about what his position is, this is where the press has to be oak and iron of continuely pressing the point demanding answers, respectfully but not settle for him to operate this propaganda machine. this is vital role of the press.

i don't think they can win the strategy of believing they can run out the clock and i like your metaphor for run out the clock, let -- not letting the press do much. the public has to understand what donald trump has succeed in doing is to intimidate the press. many of these things are designed to intimidate the press. this gut set time for the press not to be intimidated. giving oak and iron when he does these things. when he out right lie or use the word falsehood, and i think medium to the long-term, he has to hang his trash the press

strategy or it will hurt his presidency tremendously. >> thank you. coming up, people took to the streets to protesters donald trump. where does the movement go from here. can they channel the movement to real action. where is the second act. plus federal investigationor wants to know more about the russian contact. trump making good to scrap nafta. all coming up here on "hardball." let me finish with trump watch. this is "hardball" where the action is. i never went to college. (scream) i don't do blood. but now, thanks to cigna, i can do more than just look the part.

is that a foot? we are the tv doctors of america. and we're partnering with cigna to help save lives. by getting you to a real doctor for an annual check-up. so go, know, and take control of your health. doctor poses. cigntogether, all the way. united states nsenate voted

to approve mike pompeo. he won. he has the confirmation. he is now the cia director. we'll be right back. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? you foundi'm a robot! cars.com rawr yeti and found a place to service it, too. ♪ jingle bells now when you're ready, you can sell your old car

and find your new one all on cars.com you know us for shopping, and now we're there for every turn. cars.com

he has a healthy respect for the first amendment this is what makes our country so beautiful. to protests something. he cog zant of the fact that people were there to protests issue of concern and not against anything. >> that was something for from sean spicer. on saturday more than 3 million people flooded all the major cities and around the globe. i think that's place to march out there.

women's rights are human rights that was the theme. >> this is an out pouring of energy and true democracy like i have never seen in my very long live. >> i'm not nasty look the combo of trump and pence being served up i'm nascy like the battle my grandmother fault to get me into that voting booth. >> we have our work cut out for us and it's going to get harder before it gets easier. i know we will rise to the challenge. >> that was gloria stiennum. a slew of conservative took a twitter to attack. the radiohost tweeted 21st

century story for ham and cheese that won't get made into sandwiches. how lame. >> women already have equal rights and payment. what more do they want. free -- i don't know what that's. >> hillary clinton took to twitter it brought joy to others as it did to me. what comes next. senator from michigan. i'm not sure if the senate got together all the democrats said let's have a march in washington. hawaii that said let's show what we feel about trump's election.

this happened all the way in the world. what would you advise to all of these wonderful civilians who went out because they feel something. what's next for them. >> it's wonderful to be with you. i started out as one of those grass roots activists. it was so exciting. 8,000 woman from families came to d.c. it was amazing. i think the republicans and president trump should be wo worried because it came from individuals from next stop -- don't want to go back to a time when just being a woman is a preexisting condition when they cannot get basic maternity care

or make reproductive choices. they are focused on health care as round two. >> agree with you. speaking in non-political terms. the fact is most households, they know what's covered. where are they in trouble if they don't keep d up, if a husband lose a job or it if they lose their job, you have -- you know your stuff. >> can i say. >> go ahead. >> i wt to stress it's not like smoke and mirror where you sell something. women know whether they see rates go up or down. they are going to know so it's personal. >> i like what he saying about

pharmaceutical. in your state go up to canada to get better prices on drugs they come back with a carload it's all legal. do you have confidence in collective buying by health facilities if we say we're buying aspirin together and we're going to use our marketing power. does trump have something here or not? >> we as democrats have been fighting for that medicare should be negotiate group price. absolutely. we put seniors in buses and take them across to canada where they can pay 40, 50% less for the same drug, same name. it's makes no sense. >> go to paris, it was unbelievable it was one fifth of

the price he needed. senator stab gnaw of michigan, thank you. i want to start with stephanie, just tell me the feelings of saturday and how you think they can be tranlated into real action or issues that matter to women. >> it was feeling of impoufrment. it was incredible polite march. everyone was together. it was awomen across the country. all of a sudden they realize ey are not alone any more. >> a lot of blue in the red. >> a lot of blue in the red. we have two choices here.

you have run for office or help a woman run for office. we trained 500 women, she was there. >> it's important to run because eventually your goiyou're going win. >> tell me what's coming of this spontaneous phenomenon day on saturday. >> thank you for having me on. what happens now has to do with each of us. the idea that we were responding to the extremist elements, the ideology of trump. this must not stop. this must not dissolve. it has to do with political activism and strategies. i would say what advise do they

have to give to democratic party. it is speaking to the basic decency to the american people. but betterment of humiditity. this fight for the soul of our country. this march had soul and soulfulness. and too much politics does not. i hope they think they have as much to think about in terms tone -- >> i fwragree with you he is th soul. thank you. up next. new information about the investigation into ties between trump inner circle and the russian. that's not going to go away. this "hardball" where the action is.

it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. at bp, safety is never being satisfied.

hey,ugh. can i do anour interpretive dance to show you how i feel about filing taxes? uh... ♪ okay you're using a website to fill out your taxes. you're going to get a refund! oh no. your refund just plunged because you got charged to file. claire? yeah? you know you can file your taxes for free with credit karma, right? what? i must dance. file your taxes for free with credit karma tax. "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. (vo) do not go gentle into that good night, old age should burn and rave at close of day; rage, rage against the dying of the light.

do not go gentle into that good night. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ nice shorts dad...keep his wheels spinning. this is what the pros wear. that's why he starts his day with those two scoops in heart healthy kellogg's raisin bran ready to eat my dust? too bad i already filled up on raisins. kellogg's raisin bran. deliciously heart healthy

woelcome back to "hardball." between president trump's national security visor michael flynn. aimed to determine the nature of mr. flynn's contacted with russian officials.

flynn's phone call including the phone calls place to ambassador last year the same year president obama put sanctions on them. >> we have no basis for an investigation. flynn was well documented ties to the kremlin. there he is at dinner for russian media outlet rt. he was paid to liver a speech. >> okay. shane, what do we know about additional contacts involving mr. flynn who is now national security adviser with the president.

>> there was multiple contacts we don't know exactly how many russian officials. that's an important question. we know that the intelligence office looking at this during that transition period. this would not be an unusual period for mike to be setting out -- concontact with ruian what was the nature of the conversation, what was he saying, was he making promises, these are the kinds of questions. >> in he were making conversations with with prime minister or -- >> you may content of the russians because they are are not an alley. >> they are seen as adversarial, you get more scrutiny.

>> -- if we get. >> i think it's a little different. i think it's appropriate for national security adviser to talk to russian -- the question that fbi will investigate is whether they were contacts between political campaign and russian officials secretly trying to influence our election process. >> if one of the people in the campaign flynn or someone else played spotter, say here what you want to dig out of that data on that hacked e-mail, look on podesta -- >> there may be other things below that. are we going to promise certain -- >> is that violation.

>> it would be one. >> if your acting ago a foreign agency agent you have to register. doj will nail you if you don't do that. >> why would american give a damn whether flynn -- what's the worst-case scenario. >> the influence our election, that's treason. >> any collaboration, getting into ka hoots in treason. >> without them disclosing that fact -- >> most like israel, you don't think conversation go back and forth with other countries?

>> they are ongoing investigation into whether or not there was contact between trump officials and russian around this hacking that occurred. there's no evidence that there's, an though there's been allegation that there were. >> there's no doubt in my mind that netanyahu wanted him to go down. >> there's no evidence of this. >> there's no evidence that everybody suspects flynn. >> we know he had a set of conversations with the russian ambassador. >> he told spicer that was it. >> -- our sources are telling us something else. it's not just the russian ambassador -- >> it's not "on the record" it was flynn not telling the whole story. we're on the same stage.

shane and jeremy, thank you. thee things about the white house you might not now. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. so tangles don't stand a chance. because strong is beautiful. may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price,

we can help guide your retirement savings. so wherever your retirement journey takes you, we can help you reach your goals. call us or your advisor t. rowe price. invest with confidence. i'm raph. my name is anne. i'm one of the real live attorneys

you can talk to through legalzoom. don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up, because we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. legal help is here. and they're absolutely right. they say that it's hot... when really, it's scorching. and while some may say the desert is desolate... we prefer secluded. what is the desert? it's absolutely what you need right now. absolutely scottsdale.

for once gentlemen i appreciate that you write what you say, i leave you now, write it and interpret t that's your right. as i leave you i want you to know just think how much you're going to be missing, you don't have nixon to kick around any more because gentlemen, this is my last press conference. >> that was 1962 after he lost the governor's race.

loed his own frustration with the media. >> it's not just about a crowd size, it's about this constant he is not going to run. if he runs he going to drop out. there's no way he can win pa pennsylvania or michigan. there's constant theme to undercut the support he has. the default -- when we're wrong, say we're wrong. it's not always wrong and negative. >> let's bring in "hardball" round stable. three reporters in the room for spicer's press conference. let go to you dana, because you

didn't get a chance to talk. self-pity doesn't work publicly in relations in marriage or your kids, it never sells anybody. >> i don't think anybody felt bad for kellyanne conway with chuck todd yesterday. he did save a disastero situation that he got it wrong not -- >> he playing field we didn't mean -- >> he phrased differently. >> -- i think it's telling of what we're discussing here with respect to donald trump his relationship with the press that we're giving browny points to the press secretary. >> when he went on that rift

about donald trump's feelings, he hold highest office in the land. he is incredibly skin thinned. >> reports -- he was on all the time. everywhere he went, he got attention and it wasn't nasty. it wasn't nasty. >> it wasn't, but we have seen the nastiness with the press -- >> i meant in the past, nasness against him. >> my question is how can you have it both ways. one minute he going against obama, all the these people, but he is sensitive. i thought was was a moment when they talked about how they felt about congressman john lewis's

statement, it linked it to the peace where they said they want us to get along. i thought it was a good press conference. >> why didn't he extend some of this mercy to hillary clinton. talking being getting the short end of the stick. he gets up, puts her best face on, keeps a good happy face and he doesn't acknowledge she's there. just a thought. >> as we know -- >> would anybody have felt sorry for him. >> he acknowledge her in the meeting for congressional leader. tone of his remarks on friday was not -- >> he told lunch on crowd. >> but i think we made a

point -- what's he angry at the press for do canning for pointing out that the things he said were false. exactly. his his own words. he doing it to create a predicate so in the future whatever happens, matters of war oreace, chawhatever it is, it could be -- >> setting up the media so you doesn't believe every word they say. >> in order to construct a narrative around donald trump and his success which is supporters by into it. it's different when you become president. >> i think that's a good point. i have a different take. i believe this weekend --

stunned him so much in so many ways, we have to attack in a different way. he is at lowest poll rating. they called for truce today. >> that's right. that's his way -- >> sean spicer did a wonderful question. >> that was the highlight. >> except for the emotional part something got to them or he was channelling the ball. >> he was instructed by the boss. >> the roundtable -- i love you knew all the names. >> the people tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball" where the action is. ies of hep c. or wonder whether. i should seek treatment. i am ready.

because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients... ...who've had no prior treatment. it transformed treatment as the first cure that's... ...one pill, once a day for 12 weeks. certain patients... ...can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. harvoni is a simple treatment regimen that's been prescribed to more than a quarter of a million patients. tell your doctor if you've had a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv, or any other medical conditions, and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni may cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni may include tiredness, headache and weakness. i am ready to put hep c behind me. i am ready to be cured. are you ready? ask your hep c specialist if harvoni is right for you. ...stop clicking around...travel sites to find a better price... the lowest prices on our hotels are always at hilton.com.

so pay less and get more only at hilton.com. wheyou wantve somto protect it.e, at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. good news tonight for former president george herbert walker bush. the former president will be moved out of intensive care. as for former first lady barbara bush, she has been discharged from the hospital. i love this picture. the former president's doctors say he is in good spirits, sitting up and watching television. i wonder what he's watching? we'll be right back.

the cloud gave us a single platform to reach across our entire organization. it helps us communicate better. we use the microsoft cloud's advanced analytics tools to track down cybercriminals. this cloud helps transform business. this is the microsoft cloud. th...oh, baked-on alfredo?e. ...gotta rinse that. nope. no way. nada. really? dish issues? throw it all in. cascade platinum powers through... your toughest stuck-on food. cascani.platinum powers through... cascade.

♪

we're back with the "hardball" round. tell me something i don't know. >> somebody in the trump hard has to start writing their own words. we had melania trump's barring of the former first lady's speech. we had monica crowley step down at nsc because of plague i can't rememberism. i am holding in my hand a legal filing made by the president's chief counsel, entirely lifted by another respondent in the same case. >> oh, isn't there some sort of essay check to make sure you can't steal essays in school? you can steel laal legal docume which breaks the law, right? >> julia hahn is allegedly headed to work for the trump white house. she would work under steve bannon, who is of course former held of brightbart news which normalizes -- >> by the way they produced the inaugural address, it was theirs, wasn' it? >> yes.

>> president trump told congressman elijah cummings if he wants to meet with him on the high price of prescription drugs, congressman cummings said he would go on the meeting only if bernie sanders was with him. they've been working on that issue for five years. >> that would be one great meeting. by the way, elijah coming is one of the most important in washington. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." at godaddy, our goal is to make you look awesome online. let's chat in football terms. this is the goal post. the end zone. the goal of every team. we know you have goals. like getting exposure for your idea or business.

with godaddy website builder, you can easily create an awesome mobile-friendly, get you more exposure website. we call that...a website builder touchdown. get your free trial of website builder now.

i discovered a woman my family tree, named marianne gaspard. i became curious where in africa she was from. so i took the ancestry dna test to find out more about my african roots. ancestry really helped me fill in a lot of details.

w ♪

trump watch, monday january 23rd, 2017. late today the most recent shot was fired in the battle of who had the largest size crowd of their inaugural. for whatever reason, president about donald trump insists not just he won but he has the exclusive right to decide who did, and most important he did win and always will. there's something loopy about this, don't you think? does size matter that much? the more this debate goes on, the more people might begin to think this election, this inauguration, this presidency is about him. it is about a guy trying to move he's won the whole thing here on earth, that he's met the greatest and most important person in the world and people love him for it. yes, you might get the idea with the head rotating left and right between trump and his latest kriltic. what matters to the man in the white house is that he comes on top, not just the election but whatever die spult, no matter how long it goes on. what happens when pult inor some other world leader type takes a jab at him? will we have to go through the thing we have been going through

over the crowd size? will we have to sweat which sidle blow up, worse yet, blow up something? it is not a good sign when the most important person in the world thinks the most important thing is the size of his krould. the vital part of that is no one questions the fact. okay, mr. president, size matters. but, please tell us you think it is not the only thing that does. that's "hard ball" for now. thanks for being with us. ""all in with chris hayes"" starts now. tonight on all in. >> we are saying thes a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer, gave alternative facts to that. >> the trump white house sets the tone. >> our intention is never to lie to you. >> to night on working day one. >> it is working day one here. >> what we know about what president trump has already done. and what we learned today about the ability for this white house to tell the truth. >> it looked -- honestly, it looked like a million