interviewing paul ryan. president trump, it should be a good one. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. big a number an yy let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. donald trump showed in the past wild statement that grabs the attention away. on first day as president he seeming to be trumping a good story. he meeting with business leaders and congressional leaders, with drawing from tpp partnership and going ahead with the pipeline.

insisting it be built with u.s. steel. instead of oxygen in the briefing room at 1600 pennsylvania avenue is taking up by the false claim by the president himself that widespread voter fraud in rang of 3 to 5 million people are illegally. popular vote lost it to hillary clinton. it came at -- spent about first ten minutes talk about the campaign about how 3 to 5 million illegal voted in the election. according to the post fact-checker this is a bogus claim. the dodging numbers appears too be the conspiracy theorist appears 3 million votes illegal ailance. the report is a tweet. and the person who authored the

tweet will explain how he arrived at the twitter. he would not say with where it came from or what methodsology he used. i have sean spicer backed up him and suggested a white house investigation could happen. >> >> the president does believe that. he stated that before. he continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence people presented to him. >> what evidence do you have. >> i believe the president believes that. >> wouldn't you want an investigation of this? >> as i noted, he believes this for a long time. i think he won fairly. overwhelmingly. >> why not investigate --

>> how can be comfortable with his win. >> he is very comfortable with his win -- >> this second time spicer has been forced to defend the boss -- here here is on saturday night. >> which compares to 317,000 that used it for president obama last inaugural. this was the largest awudience o witness inauguration period. in person and around the globe. >> according to the washington post after he delivered that many thought he went to f. in trump's mind spicer attacks on the news media was not forcible enough. he was spoke man read it from

printed material. "washington post" coauthor on story today's white house. this is weird. first of all, i thought new york time had a great question. he said do you believe this theft by illegal immigrants. >> yes -- >> it forced him to admit i'm a flak, doing my job, i better say the right thing and say it with force but he didn't answer the question. he didn't say he believed it. >> he clearly dodged the question. he is channelling donald trump, the message or the facts or alternative facts, even the tone, that is his job and every demand of press secretary, but donald trump more than most.

>> why would you lead to the confidence can't saying he didn't like the fact that sean spicer this is -- he doesn't own any dark suits. after reading this, in walks sean spicer in a dark suits for the first time. is they how he -- >> why didn't le call him say wear a dark suit some. it did to him. >> sean got the message. he changed color, the cut -- >> flashy tie. >> he looked better in donald trump's eyes. this reads like he casting miss

universe. >> he has eye on everybody -- >> what about the 3 to 5 million hispanic voter did vote for him. in the green room, i'm going to still your line, there's a lot of 11 million people here in this country without papers. that means 3 million risk getting picked up by somebody. i. there what i have to say -- >> you have in the roosevelt room with the political leadership of both parties talk about your agenda that would tell me you won the election. it's not like you're sitting at a cafe trying to figure out what happened at your election. the focus on the fact that 3 million people, 5 million people. it's about having lost the popular vote to hillary clinton. that's what rubs this man to his

core. the problem is his people can't get him off the stick. >> by the way, he fighting over the number of people who showed up at the inauguration. he arguing over who won the debates. >> what matters to donald trump is donald trump, the fact he can't get off the stick as you put it, when you goes cia -- >> what's the stick. >> can't get off that issue. >> he goes cia wall that come men rate people who have died, there's something wrong with a person who cannot get along -- behind -- size of the inauguration. >> he going to argue with congress. he has to argue facts with him. in the end that's how he wins

the legislative right. sean spicer assertions, petted online refuted the california secretary of state called it a corrosive lie. many rep reject the claim as well. >> did you feel a need to correct him and does it trouble you that he continues to hold a -- >> i have commented on that. >> i don't know anyone does if there were that many illegal people that voted. he is president. whether 20 million voted, it's don't matter anything. he. >> he is now the president and chief, he is in charge of the

executive branch. this has to stop. one or two things need to happen quickly. we need to -- he need to share with us the information he has or he needs to recant this. >> i'm amazed. the quality of the papers like yours and the times they try to avoid radical language, lie are on the front pages that the numbers are lies. >> post truth world because you saw that -- critics say this other people say this. when you have a facts something follows then it's okay to call it what it is which is simply a lie which. >> i think they have to other

wie you get sucked into that alternative fact. >> al fact. >> that is not the space that i think the american press -- >> you work in the inside. at some point the people around the president, men, women, whatever vinage, have to go up say boss, you have to drop this wrap. this is no good for you. you have to do with the birther thing. i'm not go to say one more day. >> he didn't get off the birther thing. >> he did. >> he wouldn't fes up to the fact he done this for five years. throughout the campaign, from the time he attacked john mccain on ward, why don't people tem tell him to stop attacking miss universe, he can't, he won't,

and this is our president, get used to it. >> he willing to let it go when it come to the size of his inaugural crowd. he created out this image. according congressman from maryland, the topic of crowd size came up there. >> he didn't change his point of view on the crowd size. it was. >> he brought it up? >> it was perspective a large crowd. we didn't push it beyond that. but it was clear that this was still on his mind. >> you know, durg the -- i was here during the clinton mess. for a long time i watched the peel around and think who is going to be honest about this mess. everybody -- some people would

never deny it. in other words he never denied it. i kept track of the ones who denied it. when you start to getting -- making the people lie with you, they are going to have to lie with them. you are misusing your office thoroughly. it gets to be like kim jong-un. they are supposed to say it. >> he can play basketball really well. >> you make people like for you. >> it's a problem on so many levels. you if if you cannot take advice on war, peace, you cannot make decision that the people cannot do their job and the american

public loses faith in you. >> they're going to ask the secretary of state, do you believe there's -- you're the secretary of state you ought to know these things. do you think there were 5 million votes stolen do you believe that's true. i have a question for you, according to your article, the tub lance and committeeing fashion -- wonder whether kellyanne conway trying to undermine sean spicer. jared kushner elbow insight anybody who perceive -- have suggested tension between conway and reince priebus. what is this about the craziness inside. is that way trouble wants it? in fact you said in your piece

they are fighting over office space. >> you heard if from people who work with him in business. he establishes a team of ryals by competing powers that are vying against each other. out of the muck and chaos can come suppretress on a daily bas. >> that's the line. that's line. proximity, proximity. proximity. the reality is proximity not

just office by -- he and he alone is the one that has the final space in the tra dags of the office. >> stop talk to you,ing stop talking to the press, does he have the clout. >> i don't think he does. one of the reasons he has risen is by taking what flows downhill. he is a good soldier and loyalist. >> when you have competing power centers and a fellow who captain take advise is a recipe for a big problem, a disaster and the public should be worried. >> i'm hoping we can play educational role. thank you.

there are jobs talked about. thank you david, great reporting, we love this stuff. coming up, trump trying on -- best part of the day. he met with union leaders when we km back we'll find out what happened in the meeting. we'll get behind him or if he gets the people to work. i think work is good. this is day knife and already getting infighting and trump's anger over the way sean spicer dresses. much on that coming up. we have three things about the early days you may not know because i don't. the "hardball" roundtable will be next. let finish with the nomination. this is "hardball" where the action is. just like the people who own them, every business is different. but every one of those businesses will need legal help

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mark your calendar, house speaker has invited president trump to address joint sessions of congress. it will be first opportunity to out like agenda in a address. president's don't normally present in the first year. former president barack obama gave a similar address. we'll be right back. i never went to college. (scream) i don't do blood. but now, thanks to cigna, i can do more than just look the part. is that a foot? we are the tv doctors of america. and we're partnering with cigna to help save lives. by getting you to a real doctor for an annual check-up. so go, know, and take control of your health. doctor poses. cigntogether, all the way.

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we have been talking about there for a long time. okay. great thing for the american worker what we just did. >> welcome back too "hardball." that was president trump with drawing from the tpp trade pack otherwise known as tpp. president trump convened people

from the -- termination of our role in landmark negotiated by president obama. >> we just officially terminated tpp. [ applause ] >> we're going to stop the ridiculous trade deal taking everybody out of our country and companies out of our country. he reiterated campaign promise to redirect billions of dollars. he told american citizenry and treasury will be invested in infrastructure. listen. >> we will build the next generation of roads, bridges, railways, tunnel, seaports and airport, that believe me is what our country deserves.

>> returning me with me union leaders at the meeting with president trump. we have managed president of the union, gelemen,hank you for coming on. >> thank you. >> are you happy that trump is talking the talk about infrastructure jobs, real high paying jobs? >> absolutely. here is what was impressive. he grets inaugurationed on friday, monday had a meeting all key staff. that meeting was based on a host of things. but infrastructure was the main tenant of that. so we talked about infrastructure we talk about good paying family supporting jobs. sew we were more than encouraged by the meeting. the president's a build, we're

builders. >> highway are government business, airport are too. trains station are, is he talking about the government laying down money to create jobs or tax breaks for corporations? >> he talking about government playing down money. we come to the table with some of our pension fund. infrastructure, different funds we with be partnership that we do return on investment there's. tax breaks wasn't in the discussion. it's all of the above. >> i flow it's rare in city of washington, is this something schumer is talking about, do you think they can get together to do something both sides? >> it's been a bipartisan issue -- always have been. >> there's no reason why it can be as well. at the end of the day, what is

encouraging is our talks with the president and his plan to -- senate talking about it as well. it's on the front burner, wooe encourage by that and look forward to making it reality. >> it's a problem of nothing getting done. the republicans are trust are spended money but they won't do it. daems are entrusted but won't -- because they -- >> so we have the wild card. >> what. >> -- i think if we're underestimating or predicting what president trump can do. i do have optimism coming out of the meeting in talk to the white house staff it's a deal to be made. i think the good leadership in

senator schumer, i think there's a deal and i'm opt misic about a deal. >> i think guys are going to like that, our steel. >> this was big day. less than 24 hours ago we were in the roosevelt room, talking about these very issues and less than 24 hours there's orders that's going to make a difference in our life. >> he asked to bring in plumber, sheet metal worker, they had jeans on, they broke for lunch and he talked to everybody. there's a respect there. first step. >> stay in touch with us. i think i didn't vote for the

guy, but i tell you i did like the infrastructure stuff. i like that other part. there's a couple of things about trump that i liked in the beginning. this is big part. thank you both. more about cell phone from national security adviser tells msnbc thus nothing improve happened. [vo] quickbooks introduces rodney.

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here is what's happening, the senate delay vote to confirm jeff sessions until january 31t. at teed more time relating to investigation. dayton collapsed during speech monday night in st. paul. back to "hardball." welcome back. msnbc news reporting official fbi did not find anything improper between visor michael flynn and the russian ambassador. the walls were placed on the day president obama placed sanctions

and were picked up. reporting last night from "the washington post" which said flynn is not the active target of an investigation. "new york times" reported fbi james comey to remain in post. investigate comey's handling of the e-mail case. joined now by ken delainey. last night we talked with shane harris. -- what makes people begin to focus on flynn as somebody who may have been involved with improper conversation. what leads us into that topic. >> flynn had relationship with rt, russian television. flynn gave a paid speech. he said there was nothing amamit

about it. the russian phone call happened on the day -- >> december 29th. >> right. people were keen to know what was discussed. russian diplomats are monitored and mike flynn new that. >> he would not have tried to say something he should have if he knew he was being monitored. >> that does seem like common sense. >> what does he his behavior tell you? >> i have known mike flynn there's no finding of wrongdoing on his part. >> the weird thing about

politics -- not nice guys. they were dictateors and against out. now it seems like it's flipped. it's like the enknee of my enemy is my friend. if obama doesn't like you or hillary clinton doesn't like you, then you must be my buddy. he may be something -- not necessarily a cold war enemy but he is not our buddy. >> all republican hard line against russia that you just articulated. how are they going to spread the circle when they go to make policy. >> i think people would love to see distance but no wars. up next, three members of the trump cabinet are in office today. today on the hill, democrats

face off against trump picks. trump's unhappiness for the way the press secretary dresses, that's ahead, you're watching "hardball" war the action is. american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, find out how american express cards and services

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welcome back to "hardball." day five and sean spicer has a job on his hands. his new boss complains about his attire. according to -- doesn't the guy own a dark suit. yesterday he walked out in a dark suit. why are we hearing so much about is stuff. i'm joined byhe roundtable. in order. first of all, what's it's like

working for trump where the guy dumps on your suit. then leaks it so the guy gets the word by reading the press. >> this is totally expected. trump is obsessed with his image. you should know that branding and public perception are huge. he is always watching tv. per received in the public relation aspect. >> there is discussing women's appearance you have to be careful. acco according to the leak, he wanted a women because she would be prettier. >> there have always been leaks come from the trump high ar key,

he likes that. it it leads to a lot of embarrassing coverage. everything he does is for the camera. today he signing executive offices it's like he reading a child and make a show of it it. >> let's go to the part that is troubling. numbers. united states government put gdp numbers, it puts outnumber. numbers matter. trump said 3 to 5 million illegal country voted illegally and sticking to it. and sean spicer had unpleasant promote the idea that truck is right. >> that's his job. he has to defend the job. the difficult was when he was getting hammered on it by

reporters. slipping up saying anything is possible. but there's no investigation currently. if this is massive voter fraud why isn't there an investigation. >> in terms of the media trump is smart, beyond anybody in the business. he has to make precise number of decision to make a profit. you have to know what the specks are, what it costs, you have to know whether it's going to be margin. how can he be good in numbers at work is and bs set of numbers the income number in the mall, e are not what he says they are. >> because you're right. had is deliberate. i'm serious when i say this is tactic we see in the kremlin.

one-third of the people are going to believe it. if you can show distrust among the half or it doesn't get corrected. he took no questions. and it does, it never gets as much attention. you have it out in the social media sphere. >> that's one argument. in the criminal defense, they doesn't say anything. i didn't do it. somebody else did it. they have to setup a counter defense. >> that's enough for him. one of the things that got him steamed on saturday when sean spicer walk in the briefing room and let reporters have it, when trump gets up, he does it cashly with a joke. spicer did it it was an

untruth. >> how does he prepare his cabinet members to deal with the questions. do you believe there's 5 million votes casts illegal without documents. do you believe that because spicer would not say he believed it. >> there are willing to disagree on donald trump -- >> on facts? >> on whether -- >> it's friday, trump says it's thursday. >> whether the boss says one thing you have to back up the boss. >> no, sean spicer didn't back him up today. do you brief it was -- >> he didn't throw the bus under the bus. >> did you hear ta trump lied

against today about this. right now they want to sha rug and walk off. >> a number with go for it. we have to be -- the world is watching. >> the "new york times" used the word lying today. lied. >> several times during the briefing briefing sean spicer was asked about this. he was -- that's where you see the -- >> david, a moment ago said

there were 11 million people in this country illegally right now. a lot of them are scared to death of exprosing themselves to the government, right. >> uh-huh. >> 3 million out of 5 million voted. it's insane. you have to say, wait a minute, they sneak in and vote, whose name did they use. >> paul ryan set a good tone saying there's no evidence for this. nothing going i long with the president. >> sean backed up siting bogus studies that research do not prove this. they are talking dead people registered. there's no indication that those people voted. >> studies, i like that word. roundtable sticking with us. tell me something i don't know.

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25 people die dialled in. i have seen the pictures at least 100 people outside of pat tu me's office. but there are early indicator that it was not a one day phenomenon. >> people are skin in the game. they were there. they want to come back incht we we . >> we were -- news speak. >> keep an eye on this crackdown beginning on agencies, twitter, but they are cracking down on government federal agencies on twitter, tonight check the twitter feed tweeting facts about climate science, those tweets disappeared after people starting to take note of them. >> we have a gag order. >> that's what it looks like.

>> this afternoon president trump met with senator leaders which the name will be out next week. the keyword was mainstream. you have chuck schumer saying he is not going to vote for none one out of the mainstream. you have all within the pla mainstream, the definition what at debate here. no one seems to define it. whether we come back director of the great movie "hidden fiction" which nominated for best picture:

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here's what octavia spencer told me at that time about portraying the jim crow era in the movies. >> jim crow is a very difficult time to immerse yourself in but when you're doing a period film, we have agency as contemporary women that african-american women did not have in the jim crow era so there's something wonderful to be said about the solidarity that we felt on the set, very insulated. ted created a safe place for us to work and have fun. >> well said. well, director ted melfi joins us from los angeles. he was nominated today for co-writing the adapted screenplay. congratulations, sir. more importantly, congratulations on the box office. i've got some fairly conservative relatives and they love this movie and it's amazing. this is not some movie if you only like going to african-american movies, if there is such a thing. this is a movie that is just spectacularly fascinating and inspiring. i think people walked out of the room feeling great about --

well, life, maybe. tell me about it. >> yeah, it's been, like, a wild, inspiring ride. we've gotten texts from ted cruz and mike huckabee. it's crossing the aisles. teachers were taking kids, buying out theaters, schools are -- it's been remarkable. it's been such a -- so inspiring seems like it's been a catalyst for change in the country and a catalyst for women and kids to think about math and sce, engineering degrees. i don't know, it's just been -- it's been overwhelming. >> you must have known in writing the screenplay it is the american story, the underdog, the person that's overlooked, the person who has to make the run at the end, who has to really surprise everybody and this one, they'd already done it but nobody knew about it. that's the amazing story here for americans. >> yeah, it seems like the country -- 65% of our audience and 3035% is other so the entire country embracing this story as an american story which is also have been uplifting for us and

wonderful to watch. >> it's the way you put it together. i think you put it together in a way that was inclusive. let's watch a scene from the movie "hidden figures." >> how did you know the redstone couldn't support orbital flight. that's classified information. top secret. >> well, it's no secret why the redstone tests keep failing. numbers don't lie. >> you figured all that out with this? half the data is redacted. >> well, what's there tells a story if you read between the lines. >> you did the math? >> yes, sir. >> how do you know about the atlas rocket? that's not math. that data is not here, like you said, it's classified. >> i held it up to the light. >> you held it up to the light? >> yes, sir. >> well, there it is. >> uh-huh.

atlas. what's your name? >> catherine gobel. >> are you a spy, catherine? >> am i what? >> i said are you a russian spy? >> no, sir. i'm not russian. >> she's not russian, sir. >> little humor there, right? she's not russian, sir. i mean, it's great stuff. it's great humor in it and pathos and, you know, white people like me, you learn something even in a movie about life and about the situation back then, especially where these women, as i said, with pharrell the other night when we had him on with you guys that you don't know what it's like to not have a colored woman's bathroom within running distance of where you work everyday. you have to find what building it's in. it's like a horror story. >> yeah, what these women went through to achieve what they achieved is tremendous. i mean, to think that they drink at different water fountains and went to lunches, different cafeteria, went to the bathroom

a quarter mile away and still put their heads down and helped put a man in spe. 's the ultimate "rocky" story. >> it is that. thank you so much, ted melfi. good luck, i hope everybody watching goes to see this movie, it will make you happy. when we return, let me finish the academy award nominations across the board. i got a lot of the thoughts about the movies. you're watching "hardball" right now. liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i

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let me finish the academy award nominations today. first of nominees i recommend you see, "la la land." because if this movie doesn't float your boat, you have pretty bad holes in it. it's about hollywood and hope and talent and what matters, the willingness to believe in it. see it if you want to see ryan gosling and mame stone dance together. hiden figures is an american success story of another kind about the people who get passed over when the spotlight turns but truly make all the difference. go see it, it will thrill you. "moonlight" is about the mystery of who we are and maybe, too, what we want. it's a quiet look at the lives we lead so alone, so in the dark, so deep with life long drama. heal"hell or high water" is pur country americana. jeff bridges is always great. in in this movie, ben foster is better. i don't care if he wasn't nominated, he should have been. i haven't seen "fences" yet but i'm big on denzel washington and august wilson. my wife kathleen was crying after she saw the movie.

there's a lot of buzz about the many men and women of color among this year's oscar nominees. that's good. what's really good are the movies they're in. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. fall th "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> it was a comment he made on a long standing belief. >> president trump's first conspiracy theory. >> i think he stated his concerns of voter fraud and people voting illegally during the campaign and he continues to maintain that belief based on studies and evidence people have presented to him. >> tonight, why donald trump's voting delusion matters and why, as the executive orders fly, republicans are cheering. democrats keep up the fight on nominees. >> i don't know why you want one willing to answer whether or not you're in favor of block granting medicaid. that's not complicated. >> the latest alternative fact checking from the briefing room. >> the presidents actions today will create tens of thousands of new jobs. are the national parks