reruns, and the mtm kitty that mocked the mgm lion. mary tyler moore was flawed and owned her weaknesses. she was further weakened by diabetes and she owned that too. there are three women we can thank for reshaping humor in the television age. we know them by name. lucy, carol, and mary. one of those three, mary's dramatic performance in "ordinary people," was as good by any by an actress going back decades in a dramatic role. the great mary tyler moore was 80 years old. that is our broadcast on a wednesday night. "hardball with chris matthews" begins right now. ♪ you're going to make it after all ♪

wall power. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the cornerstone of donald trump's presidential campaign was a promise to secure the southern border with mexico and build a wall. in his very first speech back in june of '15, trump drew fire for this talk about the people crossing the border illegally. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems. and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists. and some, i assume, are good people. >> every rally was a promise to

build a wall and get mexico to pay for it. [ crowd chants "build a wall" ] >> don't worry, we're going to build that wall. mexico is going to pay for the wall. we're going to stop drugs from coming in. a trump administration will secure and defend the borders of the united states. and yes, we will build a great wall and mexico will pay for the wall 100%. yes, we will build a wall. we will build a wall. it will be a great wall. >> well, like it or not, today president trump took a major step to fulfilling that campaign pledge in a visit to the department of homeland security. donald trump signed an executive order to begin the building of that border wall. here he is. >> we are in the middle of a crisis on our southern border. the unprecedented surge of illegal migrants from central

america is harming both mexico and the united states. beginning today, the united states of america gets back control of its borders, gets back its borders. the secretary of homeland security working with myself and my staff will begin immediate construction of a border wall. so badly needed. you folks know how badly needed it is. as i've said repeatedly to the country, we are going to get the bad ones out. the criminals and the drug dea and gangs and gang members and cartel leaders. we are going to get them out and we're going to get them out fast. >> still not clear, how he will get mexico to pay for the wall. and while the trump white house says it will prioritize criminal aliens, what does that mean for the millions of undocumented immigrants in this country, some of whom are children?

robert costa is national political reporter. maria kumar is an msnbc contributor. john feiri is a republican strategist. robert costa, you're a straight reporter, you cover this every day. does this sound like what trump was promising to the people when he got their votes? >> reporter: chris, it's right out of it steve bannon/jeff sessions playbook, done through executive orders, not working through the congress. >> is there enough money in the bin to pay for a wall of 2,000 miles? >> reporter: within the white house there is confidence this is at least enough in terms of federal funds available to start construction of the wall. trump's directive to all of his advisers is, don't wait, work with congress on this, we're going to negotiate with nieto, the president of mexico. he does not want any kind of

delay because he thinks this is the chief political promise he made during this campaign. >> did it seem to matter to people in scranton, pennsylvania, other parts of the country, that he's not going to get the mexicans to pay for it in the near term, that somewhere down the line he'll find some financial means of saying the mexicans paid for it, he's not going to bill them, he's not going to invoice them, they're not going to owe us the money legally, so why would they pay for it if they're not legally bound to pay for it? mexico won't contribute to the wall. >> reporter: certainly not. the mexican government continues to insist they're not paying for any wall. however the trump white house keeps telling the press they're thinking about trade negotiations and some kind of tariff if mexico doesn't pay. this could have severe consequences on mexico's economy and on the u.s. economy. but that's the kind of tactic this white house is thinking about. >> the trouble is you put those walls up in terms of tariffs or grabbing money and you just stop the trade, therefore you don't

get the money. in an interview with "abc news tonight," president obama promised mexico would indeed pay for the wall. here he is saying it again, the president. >> are you going to direct u.s. funds to pay for this wall? will american taxpayers pay for the wall? >> ultimately it will come out of what's happening with mexico. we're going to be start those negotiations relatively soon. and we will be in a form reimbursed by mexico. >> so they'll pay us back? >> absolutely, 100%. >> mexico's president said in recent days that mexico absolutely will not pay, adding that it goes against our dignity as a country and our dignity as mexicans. he said they're simply not paying. >> david, he has to say that. he has to say that. i'm just telling you, there will be a payment. it will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form, and you have to understand, what i'm doing is good for the united states. it's also going to be good for mexico. we want to have a very stable, very solid mexico. >> you know, he's really talking nice about latinos there, have you noticed in his speeches

lately. he did get 29% of their vote. >> he did not. so 54% of latinos voted early. the exit polls are actually talking about people that voted day of. most folks had already cast a ballot. >> what percent did he get? >> 18%. >> who told that you? >> latino decisions. >> what about poing? >>at silver is revisiting it. >> why is it important to say he did not get 29%? >> because it's a false narrative. this is the work we found internally. >> you say he got 29% on voting day. >> possibly. that's the exit polls. >> i've always been skeptical about the wall. i think if i wanted to get here to get a job, i would come by boat, i would tunnel, i would have a ladder, i would have some way, if i had to feed my family. i know you're an advocate, but if you want to be brutal and

stop illegal immigration, you have to stop hiring. the first day they're here, their craftsman, they know what they're doing, they're carpenters, they can do all kinds of work, they're cheap and desperate. businesses are always looking to hire the most desperate people, male or female. >> you hit the nail on the head. we should are talking about wage enforcement. >> why doesn't trump? >> because it's an easy headline. it's easy headline. >> is he afraid to offend business? >> he absolutely is afraid to offend business. >> republicans never talk about stopping illegal hiring. >> if you talk about e-verify, the cahamber of commerce will nt support e-verify except for people already here. the wall is politically potent, it's powerful. it's a promise that trump is going to keep. believe me, what politicians early on is a promise they've kept. the mexico paying for things, that will be complicated.

>> it's almost impossible. >> we'll see what happens. >> what's it going to look like? maria, i have to get a picture in my head. this is the first day we think it's going to happen. professional painters have long ladders. >> this is the thing. he didn't level with the american people. the majority of, you know, migration to the united states has dropped since 2008, after the economic crisis. >> it's not dropped enough for his people. >> because they live on sensationalism and -- but i think what we should really look at is, americans want to know who we're living with at our borders. the idea of how do we treat with the 11 million people that run documented that have lived here for 15 years. >> i agree, we're not going to throw out these people. trump does move the ball, he moves the goal line, if you will. he's not really talking about picking up kids anymore. nobody is really defending felons. robert, on the reporting, he is

sort of changed his tune from "we're going to round up all these rapists" to, "i'm going to get the real rapists, the people who are felons." your thought. >> there is certainly a crackdown on people who are here illegally, undocumented, with criminal records. the one ongoing debate i find intriguing, chris, is over daca, about the dreamers. that has been not yet addressed in an executive order. i'm told that there are a lot of different opinions about the political consequences of going after that issue. >> remember the scene of elian gonzalez taken out of the closet? he was taken back to cuba. that picture was terrible. we can argue that forever. once they get pictures of i.c.e. guys going into people's homes pulling kids out. >> you have 16 million americans right now that live in mixed status families. >> meaning some are legal and some are not. >> exactly. the idea that we live in silent communities is not the case. >> daca is a popular program.

if you kick those kids out, it's bad politics. there should be a debate. i think getting the border wall built actually helps trump move on daca and help those kids. >> i'll go back to john. the big thing was the wall today, it will be all over the papers tomorrow. the other thing is the sanctuary cities. you know philadelphia, you know new york, san francisco,he sanctuary cities, where they tell the police, we don't want the latino community to think every time we go into the community looking for bad guys, that everybody is going to get deported because as they interview people, they'll find out their identities and their lack of documentation. what's going to happen? it looks like he's going to war against the big cities. these liberal, progressive mayors in san francisco and new york, de blasio, kenney, these guys are not going to change their tune. >> both sides want this fight, democrats welcome a fight about sanctuary cities, it activates their own base. republicans the same. this is a fight that trump has always talked about throughout

his campaign. and there is a sense that he really wants to talk about cities. look at his tweet about chicago last night. look at his talk about about sanctuary cities. he's talking about urban america as a political issue. >> how do you run against the big cities? i guess they're 85% against him. >> first of all, there are not many republican voters in those big cities. it's easy politics for the republicans. the second thing is, if you're a police chief, you really want to be able to enforce the law and have the trust of the community to cut down crime. so there's tension here. how do you actually make communities safer, and perhaps ending sanctuary city policy is not the best idea, but it's good politics for republicans because cities are willfully not enforcing the law. >> law enforcement wants to be able to go into a community and say, tell me who the criminals are. but when you have scenarios like secure communities, which basically was a dotted line between law enforcement and i.c.e., crime went up. >> because people didn't want to deal with the police. >> right. if i report a crime or a rape or

an actual crime, why am i going to call the police if i will be deported or my daughter or husband be deported? >> when they come to interview you for a crime scene, they might arrest you. >> the task was to break off that dotted line. >> let's see what the police have to say. robert costa, thanks as always, maria and john. up next, losing mary tyler moore. (scream) i don't do blood. but now, thanks to cigna, i can do more than just look the part. is that a foot? we are the tv doctors of america. and we're partnering with cigna to help save lives. by getting you to a real doctor for an annual check-up. so go, know, and take control of your health. doctor poses. cigntogether, all the way.

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rob, wasn't that exciting? >> it was embarrassing. >> oh, rob, did you hear what she said about me behind every great man -- >> is a woman with a big mouth. >> today we lost an american icon, i would say, a television pioneer, the beloved mary tyler moore, best known for the unforgettable character she played in the 1960s and '70s that redefined women on television. as a feisty young wife on "the dick van dyke show," moore showed a wife as an equal partner. on "the mary tyler moore show" she earned the admiration of millions for the toughness she showed in the workplace dominated by men. >> you've got spunk. >> well -- >> i hate spunk. >> mary tyler moore was 80 years old. i'm joined on the phone by the great carl reiner, a friend of

mary tyler moore. he directed "the dick van dyke show." he's a mark twain prize winner for humor and everything else in my book. mr. reiner, sir. why did you pick mary tyler moore to be the star of "the dick van dyke show"? >> because i was smart. any producer in the business would have hired her. there was no question, the first time i saw her, i knew she was it. i had already seen 23 people for that role. and i told sheldon leonard, our executive producer, i don't know what i'm looking for. he says, you'll know when you see her. i saw 23 people. actually i went to danny thomas, who put up the money, and i said, i just flew this girl in from new york, and it's not working out. and he said, who is that girl who auditioned for me to play my daughter? she was perfect but her nose went the wrong way. >> it wasn't dramatic enough,

her nose. >> yeah. so he said she was on the richard diamond show, only her legs showed are she was a secretary. i looked it up and it was mary tyler moore. she walked into my office. i saw those legs, the smile, and i knew that was it. i asked her to read something. i gave her a script. she read two lines and she had a ping in her voice. i made my hand into a claw like you find in the penny arcades. i walked across the room with my claw hand overhead. and she thought i was going to acost her. instead i put it on her head and i said, come with me, young lady. i walked her down the hall to sheldon leonard's office, the executive producer. i said, you're right, i found her. and i released her. and there was our laura petrie. >> carl reiner, stick with us. we'll be right back. what are we gonna do? how about we pump more into promotions? ♪

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breaking news tonight, beloved actor mary tyler moore has passed away at the agef 80. we are joined by carl reiner. julia louis-dreyfus is the latest and greatesgreatest. are women able to be more funny? >> women have always been funny on television. but in a different way. the original one was lucy, with her husband desi. but that show was about man against woman. and the van dyke show was the first one where it was man and woman together, man and woman against the world. and mary was the perfect one for that, because she had a grace about her that informed all of us that women not only can be equals but sometimes superior in their opinions and their

knowledge of how marriages and the world works. >> when i looked at mary tyler moore, for years i watched her on "the mary tyler moore show" after your show. it was a delightful show on a saturday night and it kept you home, a lot of people stayed home to see her. she made life better. >> "the mary tyler moore" show was the show that i think not only started but supported equality for women. it informed the world that women are not only equal but in many ways superior to men. and that show was a template for many other shows to come, where women not only were strong, but correct. they were sometimes smarter than their husbands, which in my ways was absolutely true, my wife was quite smarter about everything. she knew more about everything. based on that is why mary's

character laura was who she was. and mary richards, my god, took it many steps ahead. and i think we have her to thank for the women's movement today. >> i love you, mr. reiner, you're the best. you are the best. thank you so much for giving us your time tonight. carl reiner. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. join me again tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. see you then. i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. or wonder whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients... ...who've had no prior treatment. it transformed treatment as the first cure that's... ...one pill, once a day for 12 weeks.

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happy noticed it's busy? we've got legit breaking news. we have our hands exclusively on a new national poll from public policy polling. i know this is not a national poll about who people are going to vote for, but this is a poll and it turns out to be an interesting and newsworthy one that is about how the new presidency is going so far in the eyes of the american people. again, this is an exclusive. we have this tonight. nobody else has it, this is the first public release of information and you will see some of it is stark. we'll start right at the top. do you approve of president trump? the percent of americans who say yes they approve of donald trump is 44% which is in keeping with