all right. that's going to do it for this hour. i am steve kornacki in new york. "mtp daily" starts right now. woo! what a thursday! so if it's thursday, it's a possible trade war with mexico, an investigation into alleged voter fraud. and a declaration of war. good evening. i am chuck todd here in washington. welcome to an extraordinarily busy "mtp daily." folks, this ain't your father's republican party. it's trump's party now. how long does this hold? how long do republicans on capitol hill go along? president trump is aggressively moving to reshape the gop in his

own image with an agenda that would look alien to many republicans as recently as four years ago. this afternoon the white house told reporters that president trump is considering a 20% tax on mexican imports as an option to raise the estimated $10 billion to $15 billion cost to build the wall between u.s. and mexico. folks, a massive tariff or tax on trade goods is a move that republicans, at least in recent history, would never have supported. that is, perhaps, until now. president trump looks to be gearing up for a possible trade war, maybe not just with mexico, but with others. but of course, it's something that he campaigned on hard and his voters essentially are granting him that mandate. this afternoon at the republican party retreat in philadelphia he ripped into mexico after it announced the cancelation of a meeting between the two presidents. president trump and president nieto. it was scheduled for next week. here is what he said.

>> the president of mexico and myself have agreed to cancel our planned meeting scheduled for next week. unless mexico is going to treat the united states fairly, with respect, such a meeting would be fruitless, and i want to go a different route. we have no choice. >> woo! president trump was expected to sign as executive order, by the way, calling for a voter fraud investigation of some scope, that was to happen this afternoon. but the order is not -- is now expected sometime either tomorrow or saturday, if it happens at all. perhaps it may not. it all comes after president trump doubled down on his calls for a massive investigation into the election that he won. here is president trump last night on abc. >> so you've launched an investigation. >> we're going to launch an investigation to find out and then the next time -- and i will say this -- of those votes cast, none of them come to me. none of them come to me. they would all be for the other

side. none of them come to me. but when you look at the people that are registered, dead, illegal, in two states, in some cases maybe three states, we have a lot to look into. many people feel the same way that i do. >> you don't think it undermines your credibility? >> not at all. they didn't come to me, believe me. those were hillary votes. >> so, it's a big agenda. will republicans get behind it all? is there a tip of the iceberg when it comes to sort of traditional movement conservativism, the party of reining it deficits working with the president. who wants massive tax cuts without a clear way to pay for them. a trillion dollar infrastructure plan that he doesn't necessarily think needs to be paid for right now. he has noted money is cheap right now. it's a good time to borrow. the party opposed to health insurance mandates tasked to find a way to insure every man, woman and child. party of free market capitalism confronts a president considering taxes on imparts.

president trump wants companies taxed if they move businesses overseas. republican leadership against torture. their president last night at times sounding like he wanted to go medieval on combatants. a word he used. don't forget the party that won the election is being asked by trump to support a massive investigation into it. so far republicans on capitol hill are not kicking up much of a fuss politically. joined by chris collins of new york, republican congressman. the white house transition team's chief congressional liaison. he joins me from philadelphia. good to see you. >> good to be with you, chuck, yes. >> let me start by asking you about the border tax idea. >> sure. >> i got to show you this tweet interest lindsey graham. republican senator from south carolina. i'll put it on screen and read it to you. it says, simply put, any policy proposal which drives up costs of corona, tequila or margaritas is a big-time bad idea.

mucho sad. you know his sense of humor. where are you on this? >> chuck, part and parcel of reducing corporate tax rates to 20%, three individual rates significantly lower taxes means tremendous growth in the u.s. with business. more jobs, and the fundamental pay for is a border adjustability tax. if corporate taxes are 20% and to simply put it, if companies can no longer deduct the cost of goods not made in america. so the cost of goods made anywhere but america, they cannot deduct as an expense. that in effect is a 20% surcharge, tariff, tax, on anything not made in america. and that is the fundamental pay for. it's not too dissimilar to a value-added tax of 16 to 20 or even more other countries have. this is fair trade. i believe the republican conference can support this as a way to level the playing field and get the jobs back in america. >> all right. you and i have actually had have

they conversation because you -- you admit this could mean the cost of going to walmart may go up. the cost of going to target may go up. the cost of going to the mall may go up for individual consumers. maybe there are better wage jobs, maybe it balances out. is the american public ready for higher prices? >> well, chuck, the american public needs jobs. they need better-paying jobs, competitions for jobs means higher wages. as america is booming, i suspect our currency will get stronger. with a stronger currency, that would offset some of these increases coming from other countries. so i would just suggest what we know is we need the jobs here. other countries have been stealing our jobs. this is a way to get taxes down, get gdp growth up, and yes, there is going to be some inflation, but yes, you and i have also said inflation is something we need. we don't need runaway inflation.

at least then we're paying the debt down in the future with cheaper dollars. >> earlier this week i was helping my son study for a science test. and he had to memorize newton's laws of motion. obviously one of them is for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. the mexican government is not going to take this and say, okay, this is what america is doing. there are -- there is plenty of business done in mexico. plenty of exporting. 40%. nebraska has a big chunk of its export go to mexico. they may resciprocate. can our economy handle this? >> what you'll find other countries taking advantagef us with a value-added tax imposed on our goods with a free ride into our country, we're just leveling the playing field. if they want to call it a trade war and then up with additional sanctions or tariffs against the

u.s., well, then we'll have to respond in kind. i don't believe that's going to happen. i don't believe that w.t.o., the world trade organization, would declare our border adjustability tax an unfair tax. this is something we would have to wait and see. but these other countries depend on the u.s. consumers. we are 25% of the world's economy. they would have to entritread carefully and decide where to pick their fights. we're just leveling the playing field. >> you bought up the v.a.t. tax. that's sometimes repetitive because of the "t" there. is that where we're headed? >> no. >> is that the logical conclusion to where tax reform goes? >> no, absolutely not. a v.a.t. is something -- it's a very complicated tax that is put on every step. the value-added. something that's manufactured. this is much simpler. if a product is not made in america, then you are not able

to deduct it. it's a tax paid by corporations when they pay their 20% corporate tax. very simple. the simplicity is really the key to the success. and so no. a v.a.t. is not something we would support. the european countries, canada, they've -- gsts, but no. that's not the logical conclusion. this is a one and done with a border adjustability tax. >> how will a manufacturing company of sorts react to this? so, is it -- do you think the ultimate response will be, let's say take a company like apple, that any -- they'll then make -- they'll make apple products in mexico to sell in mexico to avoid taxes, make apple products in america to sell in america to avoid -- is that where we could be headed, where corporations are encouraged via the tax code to conduct business that way? >> well, first of all, under our

proposal corporations selling products overseas will pay no tax. we are going to go and start only taxing corporations on products they sell in the united states. so this will encourage exports. and when it comes to whether apple would make products here versus other places, it comes down to the 20%. if something is cheaper by 20% or more in another country they may in fact still make it in another country. time and again we hear that the cost differential in made in america versus made in china or other countries is in the 16% to maybe 30% range. so, if it's in the 20% and there is obviously cost because you're doing business overseas, this is going to be a big incentive for the companies like apple to bring manufacturing back in the u.s. so they can subtract the cost of that portion of their revenue. it will be a decision they have to make but, boy, it will level the playing field tremendously

and quickly. >> congressman. chris collins. we'll be watching. interesting talking to you. thanks for your time, sir. appreciate it. >> okay, chuck. amy walter. national editor of the cook political report. amy dunn and ramesh. i'll start with you. chris collins shares a body ideology with donald trump. i don't know if he is representative of the house republican conference these days. do you think he is? >> well, on this specific issue, whether there should be a border adjusted tax, that was part of paul ryan's better way tax plan. this is sort of their idea of how to thread the needle where they can do something that doesn't discriminate between imports and domestically produced goods but maybe tries to allay some of the protectionist pressure. >> the republican party you dealt with in the white house, anita, would never have gone near something like this.

this is interesting. this is why i through in the v.a.t. ask earlier. this is essentially the way the europeans tax themselves. could we be headed that way? >> the republican party we dealt with from the obama white house insisted that we had to pay for emergency help to communities that had been wiped out by tornadoes and hurricanes and now they're talking about passing i think the largest tax cut in history without funding it. and spending a trillion dollars for infrastructure without saying how they'll pay for that either. so it's a different republican party under donald trump. this tax proposal, listen, it's been 31 years since we have modernized the tax code. ronald reagan was president. the internet had not been invented. nobody argues it isn't time to do this. it's interesting, though, that a blue print that not a lot of people paid attention to last year suddenly has become, you know, rather revolutionary in terms of its approach. very different from anything people have been talking about before. very different from republican

ideology. >> it is interesting. that's the larger thing, amy, that i wanted to get at, which is that donald trump is changing the republican party and how quickly republicans are climbing on board. so many of these folks -- most of them are not talking, they're just going along. >> right. >> they were highly critical of these ideas. forget him the person. they'd say this is antithetical to comfort thought. -- conservative thought. ramesh's entire magazine. i'm sure it helps mitch get more invites to the white house, right? >> so, when you had the vote on fast track, what was that, two years ago, two summers ago, 90% of house republicans supported it. that's how we got to tpp. >> how many of them are -- by the way -- >> most of them are not still around. the folks who are in congress now were not around during the obamacare fights but were around for the trade things.

90%. yep. need to do more. be on board. free trade. great. now off. on the issue of tax reform, obviously we're going to -- this is the other question here. it's one thing, we know about the blueprint and the paul ryan plan on tax reform, what that's supposed to go to is reforming the tax code versus are we using this to pay for a wall and reform the tax? those are two different discussions. >> i want to pivot this conversation to this issue of mexico. okay. i talked to some folks who work and live and spend a lot of time in mexico. essentially the mexican elite, whatever you want to -- their political elite. they feel like they're getting ejected from north america. a wall going up. nafta is getting renegotiated. there will be political pressure on their government to stop a lot of cooperation with the united states and we do a lot of cooperation. this is bigger than taxes and jobs. >> the trump administration does

not seem to act on the assumption that a stable and prosperous and friendly mexico is in the u.s. national interest. if they believe that, they're certainly not communicating it, and it's certainly, i think, the y the mexicans are taking it. >> where are the canadians in all of this too, by the way? are they not our number one trading partner? we talked about nafta. we're talking about canada too. >> there is a reason that first george bush and bill clinton felt nafta was a key important thing for the economy of the united states and the foreign policy of the united states as well. the idea that a north american treaty was critical to foreigncforeign parties for a long time. donald trump has been in office for six days. he promised change, it's change. >> picking a fight with mexico. does anybody think it's bad politics to pick a fight with mexico if you're donald trump? >> in the short term. >> there is a policy fight that

could come. so no -- there is no punishment politically for him right now. >> raising prices at walmart could backfire. we'll have to see what the effects -- >> i like having chris collins on. he is one of those guys -- yes. that will be one of the effects. joe klein is one of those -- we have to have this societal conversation. innovation to the point where people don't have work. is that too much. >> i think the other thing about it, though, which is you asked him specifically about the threat to mexico. congressman collins came back with broad tax reform, right? i think you get a real sense of how the house republicans will deal with a lot of this stuff, which is, oh, you asked me about that? that's not what i want to talk about right now. there will be a lot of rabbit holes that they can chase these guys down over the next four years and they're not going to follow. >> already only 23 republicans that sit in districts that he did not win. only 23 sit in clinton districts.

the latitude he has -- one senator in 2018 who sits in a state she won. >> how chaotic foreign policy is right w. a week ago president trump was saying he was against the border adjusted tax idea. since then he's walked it back and now they're proposing it and now they've said it was just an option. who knows. >> if you are a policy wonk. it's both going to be exciting and frustrating i think right now in this town. all right. you guys are sticking around for the hour coming up. details on a staff shakeup at the state department. plus, keeping up appearances, why the president and one of his top strategists have decided to take on the media over and over again. stay tuned. y with the kids to get a repair estimate. liberty did what? yeah, with liberty mutual all i needed to do to get an estimate was snap a photo of the damage and voila! voila! (sigh) i wish my insurance company had that... wait! hold it... hold it boys... there's supposed to be three of you... where's your brother? where's your brother?

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welcome back. there is a seemingly abrupt changing of the guard going on at the state department. four long time top staffers are

leaving. they've all decided to resign or left or ousted. we don't know exactly the situation. of course, personnel transitions are not unusual between administrations. acting state department spokesman mark turner said the departures of long-time staffers is business as usual. in the american foreign service association agrees. two state department officials tell us that one of them planned to serve in the next administration. now her last day is friday. whatever replaces her in charge of enforcing voting policy. rex tillerson is expected to be sworn in as early as next week. other long-time serving diplomats have chosen to quit rather than serve in a new administration and now president trump's state department has even more jobs to fill. most of these folks had served multiple bipartisan administrations. that's why it seems so unique

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welcome back to "mtp daily." all week we have told you about what's quickly becoming president trump's achilles' heel in his first week in office. his vanity. cares deeply about appearances, especially when it comes to media coverage. in an interview in the "new york times" today his chief strategist, steve bannon says the media should, quote, keep its mouth shut telling the reporter you are the opposition party, not the democratic party. you are the opposition party. the media is the opposition party. that's the position of steve bannon, chief strategist inside the white house. folks, the reason the trump administration sees the media as the opposition might be because their boss is so driven by his own press coverage. listen to this other part from the abc news interview. >> i went to the cia. my first stop. i have great respect for the people in intelligence and cia. i don't have a lot of respect

for in particular one of the leaders but i have a lot of respect for people in the cia. that speech was a home run. that speech, if you look at fox, okay, i am mentioned -- we see what fox said. they said it was one of the great speeches. showed the people applauding and screaming. >> you would give the same speech if you gave back? >> people loved it. gave me a standing ovation for a long period of time. most of them never sat down during the whole speech. part of my whole victory was that the men and women of this country, who have been forgotten, will never be forgotten again. part of that is, when they try and demean me unfairly, because we had a massive crowd of people, we had a crowd -- i looked over that sea of people, and i said to myself, wow! and i have seen crowds before. big, big crowds. that was some crowd. >> according to the transcript released by abc news trump said

his standing ovation at the cia was the biggest since peyton manning won the super bowl. it is not clear what trump was referring to there, whether manning spoke to the cia. that we don't have. it wasn't in the interview. bringing back my panel. amy, anita and ramesh. >> amy, steve bannon clearly they want a foil. i am aware. i have been quoted as saying i am not interested in being a political prop. the media has been a foil for presidents for a long time. that was something else. >> to go directly at the very people whose job is to cover you and to say not simply that, look, we're going to have an adversarial relationship, there is stuff i'm not going to want to tell you, there is stuff we're going to disagree on but to say you're actually my enemy and my opposition and a different place to be than we have ever seen. but i think the point for the media, then, to look at that and to say, okay, we've got a lot,

though, to cover. that has nothing to do with what steve bannon does or doesn't want you to see, believe or listen to. and that the spinning about whatever he's going to spin about, how we're dishonest, how we've said the wrong thing, is only going to work until it stops working, when people actually see that policy has consequence, they're going to like it or they're not. and that's the end. >> you got in a war with fox pretty early in the obama administration. >> i did. >> i'll be frank with you. i thought it was -- i thought -- i was uncomfortable when you attacked a news organization. >> fine. >> somebody was in the white house. >> i probably -- i think i was critical at the time. do you regret that at the time and now what do you think of this today? >> i don't think anything that's happened in the last eight years on the fox network proved me wrong, chuck. i think this is -- this is very different. we didn't say the entire news media. we had an issue with one news network that, throughout the campaign, and then throughout the early parts of the presidency, was actually

creating news and was -- was behaving in a way that i think subsequently events showed really was more like a political opponent in a politburo kind of thing. you notice the president-elect, by the way, actually named fox as a place that gave him good coverage recently. he did it in the interview last night and does it all the time. gee, what a coincidence. let me make a broader point. this is not a new tactic for republicans. 1968. richard nixon. spiro agnew. the systemic delegitimization of news coverage on the part of a president happened before. it happened under the nixon administration. >> i wonder this. let me ask you about the bubble effect. i have always wondered about the bubble effect on a president, on a campaign, which is you are surrounded by people who tell you all the time how great are you are.

you are doing great. if you didn't do so hot, you may be able to do that better but you nailed x. you think that, then, warps the view of press coverage from the prism of the west wing? >> you know -- >> funny you mention that, chuck. one of the first pieces of advice i give candidates, i have done this consistently, is to tell them not to read their own clips. not to watch cable. don't read the newspapers. don't read your own clips. if you need to know something, let the staff tell you about it. because candidates can get obsessed with thisind of thing very easily. part of it is because candates are human beings. they want reporters to like them, okay. they want reporters to say, yes, that was a great speech. when they read negative stuff they spend a huge amount of time obsessing about it. i they we see it at a new level with this president but it's no the a new syndrome. >> i think part of this is the president's vanity, his need for respect, his insecurity. but i think there is something more to it than that, which is

that he is a populist. the central conceit of populism is i speak for the people. >> right. >> damn you anybody who tries to get in between me and the people. >> the crowd is huge. the applause is great and i really won the popular vote if you counted correctly. if you question those elements, you're questioning the central theory of populism, which is what he stands for. why does he choose the media as a foil? his polling isn't great. the media's is worse. the media is not trusted. if you are steve bannon and you want to make this point, what better foil to choose. >> here is the other thing. we don't fight back. >> mm-hmm. >> i don't have a political consultant that i hire. hey, we got a communications problem. can you spin this? we don't do that. we are not actors in this. >> you also take the bait every time. okay. amy is agreeing with me. you take the bait. because the reality is that, who cares what steve bannon says at the end of the day. who cares what he says, because

they're making a lot of news that will have long-term policy consequences. when the farmers in nebraska cannot export goods to mexico, when prices at walmart start going up dramatically and the wages haven't caught up with the prices because the policy effects, as amyd. that's -- >> that's why we led with policy, not steve bannon, becausthere is a reason there. all right. stick with us. still ahead, north korea defiant, unpredictable and in possession of nuclear weapons. how the regime may be planning to test the new president trump. stay tuned. ne: suck on and point decisively with the arm of your glasses. it is no longer eyewear, it is your wand of business wizardry. abracadabra. you've just gone from invisible to invincible. step two: before your meeting, choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly so you can prepare to win at business. book now at lq.com

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if it's sunday "meet the press" has an exclusive with virginia senator tim kaine. first sunday show interview since the election. more "mtp daily" just ahead. first the market wrap. >> the dow climbing 32 points to a new all-time high above 20,000. the s&p shedding a point. the nasdaq is also down by one as well. lots of earnings to tell you about. alphabet, the parent of google. reporting earnings that missed targets. revenue ahead but shares lower in late trading. starbucks, the coffee giant's profits in line with estimates but revenue falling short. intel reported results that beat expectations. shares are fluctuatingfter hours. that's it from cnbc, first in busiss worldwide. to promotions? ♪ to promotions?

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welcome back. could the first major test for trump come from noorbg. the regime developing ballistic missiles that could reach north america and making it clear they're not afraid to use them. a north korean official saying a test of a long-range missile could happen any day. >> translator: last year's joint military exercises convinced us that we should match the u.s. nuclear weapons with our own nukes and match the u.s. icbm with our own missile. >> if you remember, north korea tested a nuclear device soon after president barack obama took office. recently i talked to the outdoing defense secretary, ash carter about how the u.s. would respond if north korea carries through with its threat. is it policy now that, if they test an intermediate range ballistic missile, the united states would shoot it down? >> if it were threatening to us, yes. if its predicted impact -- or

one of our friends or allies, yes, we would shoot it down. >> north korea is notoriously unpredictable. a north korean diplomat who defected last summer warns things are getting worse saying yesterday the traditional structures of the north korean system are crumbling. joining me now me chris hill. long time, no chat. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> let me start with the threat here of north korea. i assume, knowing their history, you think it's when not if they decide to test this president. >> that's right. i think they're doing more than testing a president. they're testing ballistic missiles. and they could be testing a weapons design. it's one thing to explode a nuclear device. it's another thing to explode a device that has been put into a design that can be replicated. and they say they have the latter. we don't know that.

but what we do know, in the next few years, i hope not less than that, but certainly in the next few years and probably in the next four years, donald trump will be faced with a nuclear north korea, that is, a north korea that has a deliverable nuclear weapon. >> this talk from the defector. i was watching the more news this defector is making out the serious ituation in rth kor. how does the north korean regime hear that? does it become almost like a challenge or a threat to disprove? >> they certainly listen to these defectors. they really go after them, they go after anybody who has ever had any association with them. if you are a defector and left north korea there is a considerable amount of trauma. often they say things that we may want to hear, but it's not sure, really, whether they're true. in his case, to talk about the crumbling of the state structure there, i hope it's true, but i am not convinced of it yet.

it seems kim jong un, hideous has he has been, is very much in charge there. and i don't think we have any reason to hope, at least in the short run, that it's all going to be taken care of. >> so what is the right policy now to check north korea? there was a time candidate donald trump basically implied this needs to be china's problem. he is not the first to say that. i mean, there is a lot president obama, in different ways saying, hey, isn't this your client state? you need to take care of it. china sort of sometimes admits it's a client state and sometimes wants to wash its hands of north korea. what is at this point -- if you are advising president trump, what's your advice? >> well, first of all, i mean, i would love it if we could outsource it to china and say, china, you created this mess, you fix it. but it's not going to happen. china has a lot of things going , and certainly they are not quite prepared for the complete demise of north korea, the emergence of south korea as a successor state, the potential

that you could have u.s. troops on the border, potential that the u.s. could use northern korea as some kind of listening post. overall, the impression that china would have lost strategically to the united states. i don't think they're there yet. and i am not sure they'll ever be there unless we're prepared to really have serious discussions with them, go deep with them. and most importantly, like everything in life, you've got to set some priorities. and to some extent we have not done that with north korea. with china with respect to north korea. we worried about their trade surpluses, are we worried about the south china seas, tibet, what are we worried about with china? i think we have so set priorities with them and then try to do a deep dive. the situation is pretty tough. a lot of nationalism in china. the chinese government is not handling things well internally. they also have been pretty belligerent on the south china sea. so we have some issues. then i think trying to put the

one-china policy back on the table, i don't think that's a dog that's going to hunt. >> let me go back, though, to north korea and ask you this sort of fundamental question. when we took out the iraqis when they tried to start a nuke -- we knew they were going to try to start a nuclear weapons program. got to it early. how did -- how did this get this far with north korea? >> well, it's been going on for a long time. it didn't just start when george w. bush called them a member of the axis of evil and somehow hurt their feelings. they've been working on this since the 1980s. the problem is there are no good options. we do need china as part of the solution. they can't do it all but they certainly need to be part of the solution. i think that was important for us to do. at the same time, if you look at a map and look a where seoul is, the population centers, where north korean artillery is, to go for some kind of kinetic

solution invites the potential of war. so i think, understandably, people have tried to kick the can down the road, the obama administration talked about patience or even, better yet, they talked about strategic patience. well, clearly that's not something that you'll find in the lexicon of the current president. so it will be interesting, to put it mildly, in the next four years. >> that's for sure. as we put on the banner there, we know secretary mattis will be in south korea during his first maiden trip as defense secretary. ambassador chris hill. always a pleasure. why i am obsessed with fragile freedom when it comes to two american institutions. stay tuned.

welcome back. tonight i am obsessed with where we are less than one week into the trump presidency. we're in a cull de sac. a pre and fair vote and a free and respected press. donald trump is president of the united states. when he insists there is widespread voter fraud and 3 to 5 million people voted illegally and says he knows they all voted for clinton and says this not only in the absence of evidence but in the spite of universal conclusion that there was no fraud. when he says that he undermines confidence in our democracy. it may not be his intention but a lot of people will believe everything he is saying about

this. that is not good. then the president's assault on the press. calling reporters the most dishonest people on earth. insists they laid about his inauguration turnout. the viewer speech. encouraged by steve bannon calling the media the opposition party, that it should keep its mouth shut and listen for a while. not exactly first amendment stuff. look, i know this is feel-good stuff. not naive. i know it's a political tactic, designed to spurxcitement among a small group of folks. but this is not a campaign anymore. as president mr. trump's words have outsize impact not just in the u.s. but around the globe. we in the media are guilty of chasing shiny metal observes rather than telling stories of what matters to voters. we didn't have a good handle of what a lot of people living away from big metro areas were thinking but it's not an excuse for somehow disbanding two basic premises when it comes to the media, the press and democracy.

we are all custodians of our freedoms. let's not throw it away over an argument about vanity. when you've been making delicious natural cheese for over 100 years like kraft has, you learn a lot about what people want. honey, do we have like a super creamy cheese with taco spice already in it? oh, thanks. bon appe-cheese! okay...

time now for the lid. panelists back. amy, anita and ramesh. we didn't get to the president on the issue of water boarding. let me play a sound from his interview on abc last night. >> would i feel strongly about water boarding? we have to fight fire with fire. i have spoken as recently as 24 hours ago with people at the highest level of intelligence. i asked them the question. does it work? does torture work? and the answer was yes. absolutely. i will say this. i will rely on pompeo and mattis and my group. if they don't want to do it, that's fine. if they do want to do then i'll work toward that end.

i want to do everything within the bounds of what you are allowed to do legally. but do i feel it works? absolutely i feel it works. >> so it's the convention of using phrase torture. something that dik chainy didn't believe it was torture. this is out right saying torture. how is it going to get heard around the world? >> while he was campaigning he talking about killing innocent family members of people we're at war with. this is not new for him. this basic attitude towards human rights. i do think at least -- to small blessing department the fact he talking about obeying the law, the law does not prohibit water boarding. they mcconnell, director of the cia made it clear he going to

follow the law. torture is not legal. theresa may said we did not get involved in that. we do not sanction torture. it's going to have an impact around the world. >> it will. it's time like this that you're saying thank god for mccain whose voice adds a level of creditability to any discussion. think about how much there's to unpack the president's statement. just the part about obey the law, it assumes news worthy of itself. he talked about violating the law in this area. people do hear this, what have americans done. >> people in the military, people i know who come from military background, when they heard during the campaign this idea he was going to kill

or torture the family members of suspected terrorists, they were horrorfide. >> let's remember what he channelling. he -- it was. >> to terrorists at home. >> to terrorists that don't, you're at a group of people that don't provided by geneva convention. >> he seeps to be influenced by who he last spoken to. >> right. >> previously he had spoken to gem general mattis. >> i think he starts with an inclination that the methods

which are considered to be torture are useful, they work, that should be end of the debate. he can be influenced by the other side and across the board. >> what's his greatest strength is no is never no with him. you can talk him out of no which you can argue you want that in a president to a point. >> i think you are exceptionally good in finding that lining. he has been clear with ebb everybody, he a deal maker. his no is never a no until it becomes a no. with presidents you would like that point to be arrived at after deep reflection or maybe some reading. >> you brought up john mccain, you create fishers in your party

over this. this becomes problematic. >> you see members of congress, this is going to be constandpoint for them trying to focus on the stuff they want to get done and department don't want to be spending timen this. they want to do tax cuts, they want to repeal obamacare and get a couple other regulatory reforms down, that would be a great year. anything that take them away interest them away from that is -- >> the house says, yes, we'll fund the money for the wall. i did not think it would be that quick. >> you have been great. >> thank you. >> med --

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. in case you missed it, you maybe better off pissing this, as of this morning, we're closer to the end of world. get to the end of the world issue, according to doomsday clock we are midnight being epop slips. created this depressing metaphor

70 years ago it warns the public about how close we areo destroying our world. the bull ten moved it it closer to the -- global security landscape darken as the international security failed to come to grips with humanity pressing threats, nuclear weapons and climate changes. that's not only thing happening today. according to the newts democracy index, united states has been downgraded from full democracy to flawed democracy. but according to the report, the decline in the u.s. democracy score reflects erosion of confidences in government in many years. but this year is clear that united states downgrade is not result of president trump's

collection but beneficiary of this decline in trust. so let's semipositive note. it includes country like japan and belgium. back to the doomsday clock. this not closest we have been, it was set to 2 minutes to mitted night. the collapse have not happened yet. "mtp daily." "for the record" starts a little late, sorry. "for the record" war on the border. the mexican president with a stunner decide not to come to washington, d.c., hold on to seat trump has different version. no show mutual decision but it is. also, trump top adviser blasting the opposition and say