i hope they know we do appreciate them. thanks for wanting. have a great weekend. see you monday night. if you cannot watch live, set dvr. follow me on twitter @greta. true or false. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. it's been a week since president trump held joint press conference with leader theresa may. >> mr. president you said torture work, you want to ban muslim from coming to america, you sunged there should be

punishment for abortion. tor for many in britain. what do you say for viewers in home worried about you becoming leader of the free coraled. >> this was your choice of a question. that goes that relationship. >> we'll have more on that later on the show. past week show president trump will continue to battle over the truth holding himself out as a honest ash t. furious over the -- major battle front of early presidency. >> i get up this morning they show an empty filed. i said, wait a minute. i made a speech. i looked out the field looked like a million, million nafr people. this was largest to witness

inauguration. period. both around the globe. >> we had a massive crowd of people. >> here is picture of the crowd. the audience was the biggest ever. this crowd was massive. >> this shows how far over this go over here. this goes all way down here. >> well, today "the washington post" reported, trump ordered acting director to produce additional photographs of the crowd's mall. the photographs proof the media lied. president trump battled over dubious claim of voter fraud. 3 to 5 million illegals voted in the election.

press secretary sean spicer doubled down. >> what evidence do you have. >> president believed that for a while. >> wouldn't you want an investigation into this? >> as i noted several times. he believes this. look. >> why not investigate something that -- >> maybe we mihe will. >> major voter fraud and defended it in nbc news. >> you were not supposed to talk to the press but the democrats reviewed it not as -- >> i do i'm. >> i mean it. i said it, and i said it strongly because what's going on with voter fraud is horrible. do you think that talking about million of illegal votes it dangerous to this country? not at all because people feel the same as i do.

>> mike pence told republican lawmaker in close door session probe into voting roll, the fact remains there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud as the president allegation. hewitt is sin kated show and -- let start with joy, what do we know about the crowd size, and can the president calling up the park service director trying to get better pictures. his focus on the 3 to 5 million people illegal without documentation who stuck their next necks out to vote in their place somehow knowing they would not show up, the argument over these large numberless what do we know that's true. what's object fiebl?

>> there's never been to my knowledge an incoming president obsessed with the size of his inaugural crowdnd obsessed with the fact of his victory. donald trump is president. he seems not to be able to move past january 20th. you have to call this unhealth kri. there were 1.8 million people who withined president obama in 2008. the cia participates in taking the arial pictures. 1.2 witnessed barack inago ral in 2012. and -- why he is obsessed with this to the exclusion of all else is bizarre and unhealthy.

you wonder why someone in the administration who can move him on to what matters when germane which is president. it strange and makes up look strange in the world. >> you're a conservative. i have no way of thinking you are obsessed with the number. why the numbers on size. over and over. this is five days of this. >> the good side he brought attention to the march for life. he never pay attention to the size march for life it got more because president was paying attention to the -- i salute the strategy there. >> that was strategy behind this? >> i'm into the saying -- >> let's go to main point. >> because delegitimize. >> by whom?

>> by everyone attack whether or not president obama was better by crowd size. >> let's face it. there's a demographic first ever aspect of president obama. you know how many people in this town who live within walking distance came with historic enthusiasm for the fact this city a largely minority, the regular people were thrilled, they walked to the event. all of this stuff was nonsense. i was there. it was over well ming. >> but -- this guy took an

outside shot here. >> it's not a three-pointer, hugh. he cannot let go of things. we're still talking about voter fraud -- >> we're talking about it too and papers are talking about it. had he said on the clip that how dare the congressman come out of this private meeting say what i said. he doesn't need them -- he can't blame them. he says it ask doesn't want it let it go now we'll have an million dollar spe on an investigation to find out voter fraud. >> president trump seemed to back unsubstantiated claim that 3 million people voted -- which happened to be the number hillary won by. >> do you have the proof? >> yes. l you provide it? >> yes. >> can i have it?

>> no. >> why? >> one of the tweet that we have stuck with all the along with we're going to release all of this to the public, we're going to release raw data, conclusions everything to the public. >> whether when -- >> what i'm hearing from you, you think you'll be able to show it. >> no. what you're hearing is i know, you just don't believe that i know. >> well, that's the new trump universe. shortly after that trump tweet, looked forward to seeing the results. we must do better. phillips overed zero. days after the vote in november. funny thing he was ready with the numbers thing.

election officials -- it was handy number, 3 million. he tweeted without evidence, he called president obama emperor weaponizing his people. for five years, he had one case of illegal barack obama. he voted illegally, having snuck in the country, he became president of the united states. he did not for five years all the while senng out detectives, getting reports, verifying his claim, then he said on friday, he said, oh, he is american like we are. and everybody let it go. how do you by any time from a

guy who said number one guy snuck in the country. no one new him in school. he was a phantom being that did not go to columbia or harvard law, none of that happened. he wasn't there. >> i have to -- go ahead. >> he send his wife out to go on -- this guy who loves conspiracy theories, he is now listening to some crank talk about his theory -- it happened three million exactly the number he loses by but all of them voted for hillary clinton, it wasn't three million who happened to vote for hillary clinton. we have a country near the

bottom for voterer town-out but just hillary clinton man managed to get three million to vote for her but was not make them savvy enough to do it in pennsylvania, michigan, and -- she didn't spread it around. >> i ask this one thing. >> -- why . >> i have an answer. >> we're not talking about chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. >> he had a first great week. including prime minister may. we're not focusing on schumer and pelosi. it's a brilliant dodgeball. >> you say psych -- >> obamacare, the things -- then

he veers off in the golfer who told story about the -- >> the german guy. >> yes. two -- >> i assume -- why did he know these people were illegal? >> it was an ethnic judgment. i think -- >> ply friemy friend, what is y down water torture theory. why this guy want get off -- then he gets into size matters things. it's weird. i think it's marketing. i think he has to say best ever. he went to the best everything.

i think it's marketing. he couldn't do business this way or cost or overhead. you could not make money in you operated on this. your thoughts on motive here. >> he signs deals to listen his name. >> you know the difference between you and me, i will give him something. i will split the difference. you won't give him scratch. >> my theory is having interreviewed donald trump, he comes up from this deep sense of inferiority that is queen was not given respect, he has sense that he looked down on and favored to obama, the refer rens

people have for president obama and bow down to the donald, he is not happening, he is enraged. -- >> i have a real questions. i think you're -- >> go on tv and all he does is watch tving. he dent care about voter fraud because his kids, two of them, is registered in two states. he has multiple people in circle registered in two states. it is bizarre. >> let me say, i think theresa may -- >> i heard -- by the way that's what drives you to run for president. normal people have a beer and

watch television. what's wrong with that. why do people spend years writing books to prove something. psych babble doesn't get you anywhere. >> highest ambition of the noblist mind. >> put people at ease. he went to dinner -- i'm to the right but i'm not crazy. i was there. let's go. >> it's not psych babble to say he can't let it go. he can't drop it. >> my question is, a thousand people so-called psychist said

barry gold water was crazy. i'm suspicious of cross the aisle psych babble -- can i say something quickly. >> name one who you agree with who have a s-- complex. >> there's a grace that incoming presidents have. no matter how they won. there's a grace that president's normally have. where they attempt to reach across. this is an obsession -- >> give employee a non-partisan lisey shelt list of people who have had this problem. >> i have never seen anything like this. >> i'm ver weary of psych

babble. >> i think is requires more study. >> me too. >> an kor man, scholars disagree. coming up, president trump set to talk to vladimir putin and lifting the sanctions that president obama put in place as puni punishment for mettling in our election is on the table. wivice president mike pence headlines march for life. first time vice president has -- pick for the supreme court. a week after his inauguration we're getting records about donald trump relentless focus on the size of his crowd. the "hardball" roundtable is

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we're opening more xfinity nstores closer to you. visit us today and learn how to get the most out of all your services, like xfinity x1. we'll put the power in your hands, so you can see how x1 is changing the way you experience tv with features like voice remote, making it easier and more fun than ever. there's more in store than you imagine. visit an xfinity store today and see for yourself. xfinity, the future of awesome. this president putin, my advise is to engage but beware. >> british prime minister theresa may. this coming this weekend. it itcomes as trump wages to ea the sanction obama imposed on

russia. here is what trump said about the transanctions and russian. >> as far as sanctions it's early to be talking about that. as far as again, putin and russia i don't say good, bad or indifferent. i don't know the gentleman. i hope we have a good relationship. we'll see what happens. >> early today senator john mccain issued strong warning. i hope president trump put an end to speculation and reject such a -- codify sanctions into law. senator leader mcconnell, if there's any country in the world, it's russia. this does not deserve relief.

>> sanctions should stay. former deputy of defense for russ russia ukraine, thank you for coming on to the post tonight. you raise issue that trump is on worst enemy. today in his press conference which was orderly and normal. he said, i'm for torture but my new pentagon chief doesn't belief it so we're not going to do it. don't worry my instincts doesn't matter and he going to run the show. what do you make of it. >> it was hard to figure after a speak of spinning like a top, i

thought trump seemed calmer today. i thought he was voied by the prime minister. he did say i'm going to defer to my defense secretary. i'm going to go with the leaders as the leader is the president, le going to go with the leader. backing away from this suggestion that he was prepared to put cia into torture business is smart. on the question of sanctions, i think he is being a little more careful. the number of top republicans today demanding that he not lift the sanctions was striking. i think the message got through to trump. >> there's three people working against him. i'm a little worried. i think there are checks and

balances we don't think about. how about the fact that his own party is standing up loudly to him. his cabinet disagrees with him. the allies are saying we don't believe some of this stuff. so he doesn't -- he acting like a prime minister with cabinet. he is saying because of the company he had, he is not some one man auto krat. >> it was interesting what david said. >> what do you think? >> i think he can't help himself. i'm speculating, that's my sense. i do think it was important, the senate republicans in congress would be critical here. they have sapgs sanctions what

russia did. it's not an empty threat. mattis if he gets upset with the president, if general mattis gets upset with him -- secretary mattis now, he could say, okay i'm leaving. that would be a disaster for president trump. >> you have great pipe lines around the world. i have been to india, and ireland and they are scared of him before ask after the election. what's your sense of world leader. the woman who said a lot of people are alarmed at you. >> it was a tough question and -- he i think you say this president has people destabilized that's exactly what he wants to do. whether he will find a way get

negotiating gains out of that remains to be seen. i thought the efforts to gets a deal with mexico that would be acceptable that would show in its way mexico is going to pay for the wall, he really very close to that, then with a tweet it was gone. take a long time to put it together. he has world leaders nervous and ready to make some consop conce. that's exactly what he wants. >> his inircircle know what he is planning. the other thing about sanctions, you have to remember that's our best leverage, he is not there. my hope is he gets something --

>> i'll settle for -- up next vice president became first to attend march for life. opponents are fired up. this is "hardball." that's today. where the action is. (vo) do not go gentle into that good night, old age should burn and rave at close of day; rage, rage against the dying of the light. do not go gentle into that good night. ♪ ♪

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44th annual march for life. this kicked up associate march across the country. >> it's a good day. and it's best day i have ever seen for the march for life in more ways than one. >> deeply humble to be the first vice president of the united states to ever have the privilege to attend. i. because of all of you in the many thousands who stand with us in marchs like this all across the nation, life is winning again in america. >> vice president pence is opponent of abortion restricting women's access to those rights. trump was pro-choice which she

can to crowd but never did. their support but did not show up. president trump counselor addressed crowd today. since campaigning donald trump taken harder stance on abortion it's changed a bit. but here what he told me last year. >> do you believe -- >> the answer is there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. it has to be. for the "new york times." tell us about the rally, what significant, what does pro-life mean. whatever, do it your way. >> thank you for having me on. it was great day today. full of optimism and hope. it was great to have the vice president there. and we had a great crowd. it was -- what did you hear from

the president or the his people associate justice to replace a scalia. >> want to get rid of row v wade. >> yes. >> make that commitment up fr t front. >> yes. jeremy, the rally, and the optimism rk optimism, in terms of the supreme court that's hot issue right now. >> trump committed in writing in a way other republicans have not. to anti-abortion causes. he said he would saign a ban after 20 weeks.

these are pledges that no other republican -- >> public funds not be used for abortion has been practice for years. it's been the law. >> right. where trump has gone further and the reason why the movement has gotten behind him despite the fact he recent convent to his cause, is the way he talks about it. he talksed about abortion forcefully in a way no real republican nominee has ever. he talked about hillary clinton support the right to have a baby ripped out of womb after nine months. >> what your reaction what trump said. what have you thought about his commitment to outlawing

abortion. >> someone who worked in the abortion industry for eight years and the corruption and how it hurts women. >> they go do the -- they make the decision themselves. >> we have given a quote to to sell every month to come to the center, alternative to women who are pregnant. they don't have adoption. >> planned parenthood. >> they do not. >> they do not have prenatal care. >> they don't. >> no they do not. >> they do abortions. >> i abortions, pap smear, they do not do prenatal care incht how does a woman coerced to

having an abortion. >> she may feel alone, here is problem telling you we can solve jury problem for $450. we have take care of it today for you. >> you would like to have a system where that is outlawed. no more abortions. >> absolutely. if. >> if you do too often your put in jail. what would stop a person, person the stop under your system of pro-life. what would the law be? >> you'll find doctors performing -- >> legal or not. >> nothing. >> how would you stop abortions? >> i can't stop is it totally. no one can stop it totally.

but we can reduce the clinics. >> i'm hearinghrough one of the producers that planned parenthood, they do provide prenatal care on the website. >> they say that but they do not. there's not one clinic that provided mammogram services but they said provided a lot of things. >> jeremy this fight, i thought the fight is like the middle east it's going to keep going. in a way conservatives lawmaker are protected. the court protects right of a woman to choose. but it's done politically, they can say i'm pro-life e. though don't have a deliver a law outlawing abortion. >> there were some debate over this back when george w. bush

was president there was partial abortion ban he signed. we are talking at least one, two supreme court appointments. that next one is going to be l big one. the court across the country are -- >> vote to repeal row v wade. >> that's out of my depth. >> as long as anthony kennedy is there. >> trump has drawn such a issue on the pro-life movement. this is was a group not behind him. they called him embarrassment and they got behind him for a transactional reason. >> here problem with the position. if abortions murder and person is given no sanctions or punishment, there's something

that doesn't square there. if you believe it's murder or not. you treat her like a vulnerable person andou get it both ways. womenave majority and have right to make judgment they find doctor to give proceed. going after doctor, if it's murder, act on it. stop saying. it's called a conflict of truth. >> i don't say it's murder. >> a lot do. >> well, killing people. you're saying. >> killing a human being. >> if it's killing, what is it. >> should the person be punished for doing it. >> should the person -- i do not believe they should be punished. >> but it's murder. >> but it shouldn't be murder -- >> i think a woman should be

not -- >> i don't understand. jeremy petters thank you. why is donald trump obsessed with the size of the crowd. that would be useful for trump. you're watching "hardball" where the action is. ories from sugar. with more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all, smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and signs reminding everyone to think balance before choosingir beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet, and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. smaller portions. less sugar. balanceus.org.

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let's bring in campaign manager, ken, is chief investigative reporter. there was a number of issues with mitt romney, this guy won't get off it. he said i had the biggest this, biggest number, 3 million people vote for me. what's going on here? >> at some point it's like having a conversation with a person who believes that the world is flat. the fact that he communicated is false. you have to throw up your hands and say uncle. >> is that good for democracy and that you give up on notion of objective reality? >> of course not. >> you can't say, the moon is

made of cheese. tokyo is the capital of japan. the movie starts at 7:00. i don't want opinions about it, i want to know when it go there. >> it's one thing if the president was asking about the crowd sizes and how many people were there, in every speech, he brings it up. in the interview with david mur and had stops at the one and says, look, there's all these people, three million people there. i don't know, as an american -- >> you see them over here, you see they over there. >> yes, it's been five days of this. what happened on first day you were going to resend obamacare and do all of this, you call acting director say i want more

photos, come on. >> he tis the one bringing this up. this is not accurate, here is how to measure to show is not accurate. that inflames him more. >> one reason he tries to degrade us, the media people, there's nobody to say what is true. there's no empire. no one want to -- he want trust --. the roundtable is sticking with us. these three with tell me something i don't know.

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no artificial preservatives, sweeteners, flavors, or colors. panera. food as it should be. we are back with the "hardball" round table. katie, you're first. tell me something i don't know. >> there's a bit of a split personality disorder taking place at the white house right now. you have these two different factions that are kind of battling for the heart and mind of the president. you've got kind of the sane reince priebus, vice president me pence that are rapidly pushing forward conservative ideas and conservative solutions that a lot of republicans can get behind. then you have bannon who's very, very quickly building his power structure there. at some point these two are going to come to loggerheads. >> completely agree. >> remember the disaster that was betsy devos' confirmation hearings? looks like she's turning things around. apparently senator lamar

alexander is taking her around to moderates within the senate and she's acquitting herself well so the play is he'll get her through committee but now it's the play to get her enough votes to get her confirmed and it looks like it's working. >> she's impressive. she'll do well. >> no more talk of grizzly bears. >> who's the sherpa? who's the guy or woman in charge getting this to happen? >> i believe it's senator alexander. >> well. >> so with vladimir putin and donald trump set to t on the phone tomorrow and with some talk about trump possibly lifting sanctions on russia, my understanding is that the ukrainians are scrambling, ukraine president petro poroshenko is working to get a meeting, so far unsuccessfully with trump. my sources tell me the ambassador to the u.s. from the ukraine is on the hot seat, the feeling in kiev is that he didn't do a good enough job building bridges to the trump campaign and administration. >> thank you katie packer, jonathan capehart and ken vogel. when we return, let me finish with the trump watch. you're watching "hardball."

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trump watch, friday, january 27, 2017. a first week of a presidency, a strange week in an american political history. we're now in the odd position of having a president who seeks to cloud over the very notion of objective truth as he and his people present reality, there's not a single truth but simply an argument over what it is. there's trump's truth and the truth others cite. in this new world of trump, there are no objective facts, of

course. if trump says president obama is an illegal immigrant and the present available evidence says he's a natural born american, pick the side you like. if you like trump, you accept his charge that obama snuck in the country and somehow grabbed the presidency under some assumed identity. just remember what trump said about obama, no one knew him in school. when there's the trump truth that three to five million people in this country voted illegally. that's what he says. and there are people who pay attention to voter fraud who find nothing of the kind. if you like trump, accept his truth. if you don't accept his claim of three to five million who snuck in and voted under assumed names, it must be because you don't like trump. again, if you're for trump, you should accept his truth, if you believe in another truth it's because you're opposed to trump. that's what he says. to make sure there's no one to judge which side is objectively true, trump dumps on the media as dishonest, that means it stays the way he wants it. an endless argument over what trump said is true or not.

if just a third of the people, his base, say he's right, that's fine with trump. it sure beats losing the battle of objective truth by a shutout. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. fall this with chris hayes start right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> what's crucial for me is for the public to understand that obamacare is a disaster, okay? >> president trump takes action to undercut health care enrollment. >> i do believe we'll have a much better plan. >> but a new leaked audio, republicans wonder if their repeal will pull the rug out from under people. then -- >> that goes to the promise of extreme vetting. >> totally extreme. >> the president's totally extreme moves to restrict immigration and refugees. plus, masha gessen on the reality of living among alternative facts. >> what you have presented so far has been debunked. >> no, it hasn't. >> what van halen has to do with the british prime minister's