very good saturday to you, i'm richard lui at msnbc world headquarters. a very busy work day here in new york city. we want to start with breaking news. first off, the impact of president trump's executive decisions on refugees, reverb rating around the world. p's orders from several muslim countries several people have been forbidden from boarding planes for the u.s. this happened overnight. u.s. representative jerry nadler said dozens were detained because of the order signed at noon yesterday. one person has since been released so far. nbc news correspondence anne

thompson has been covering the story live at jfk's new york airport. anne, what are you hearing? >> reporter: hi, richard. take a look behind me. you'll see the protests behind the extreme vetting order irked by president donald trump. it's grown to a couple hundred people in the just the last two hour. dozens of people have been detained here at jfk because of extreme vetting order. one of them has been released, ham immediate darweesh walked out to meet this family. he was detained at jfk for 18 hours. we understand from the white house he was released and allowed to come into this country because a waiver was issued to that executive order the president signed yesterday afternoon. there is also another iraqi man who is being detained here at

jfk. he is married to an iraqi woman who is in this country. although worked for the u.s. government, he, too, apparently is in the process of getting one of those waivers. as to what will happen to the other ten people who are being held here in the jfk, we do not know at this time. but these are people who basically got caught in the system. they were on planes coming to this country when president trump signed that executive order last night. and when they landed, even though the two iraqis in question have legitimate valid visas, they were not allowed into the country because of the extreme vetting order. now,here's a lot of confusion as to exactly what that order means. who gets let in. who gets turned back. and all of that is being sorted out today. richard. >> anne, a very loud crowd as well. any sense of what they are chancing? and who they are? >> reporter: they are a lot of people who just feel very upset

about this order that has been issued. because as they said, this is not the america that we belong to. there are all kinds of signs here. some say deport trump. some say we've been here before. refugees welcome. no ban. no wall. but the bottom line here is that people feel that these protesters feel that people who want to come to this country should be allowed to this country, if they have the proper papers. and they really don't like this order. richard. >> nbc's anne thompson live for us there at jfk. a very busy airport today, even busier because of this wrinkle on what has happened from a friday to a saturday. thank you so much, anne. the white house is trying to provide details about the executive orders on refugees, what anne was telling us about,

and what new orders to possibly expect tay and coming days. c's casey hunt has more. casey. >> reporter: richard, a very busy afternoon at the white house where we are learning more details about how this immigration and refugee executive order is going to affect the people who are outside of the united states, trying to travel here. we're also expecting a series of new executive orders, potentially this afternoon. so, i just want to walk you through some of the new information that we have now. first of all, we do know that both of the refugees who landed at jfk and were detained are going to be allowed into the country. when we got this briefing from senior administration officials one had been waived through released. and the other was working closely with border protection to try and resolve this. the realities is, this san issue because a lost of the governance governing this acceptance, people allowed in, that guidance is still being written. it's being worked on right now

by dhs and the state department according to this senior administration official. and it's going to be disseminated as soon as it's finished to places like heathrow airport, or another place where a flight might originate that might be carrying people who are subject to this new executive order. they also have not yet issued guidelines about refugees who might be at transit at different points in the process. the people w landed at jfk, of course, were in the airhen this happened. there were others who would be accepted but at different stages in process. the government working outside the details there. they said it would have been reckless and irresponsible to put the headlines out ahead of time. they say security is the reason why the guidelines were not given but, of course, it's causing somewhat of a scramble for many people involved in the process of trying to figure out who should be allowed in. now, i also want to walk you through the three executive orders that are potentially

being signed today. we're expecting to see president trump sign those orders in the 3:00 hour. but the senior administration officials warn that it's possible that one of these could slide timingwise. one is related to the national security council, reorganizing now the council is set up. aimed at dealing with threats in the 21st century, cyber attacks and the like. but it's not yet clear how that will, say, look different from president obama's securities council. another one is lobbying, anyone who joins the trump administration from lobbying for five years after they leave the administration. and permanently from lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. and thirdly, the president wants to order the joint chiefs of staff to conduct an immediate review on how to defeat isis. he's going to want that review from the joint chiefs of staff in 30 days. we'll see exactly how this plays t over the course of this afternoon. this saturday at the white house proceeding much like the first

seven days of the trump presidency. >> very busy. casey hunt with the latest on the breaking news. the aclu based on what we're hearing today immediately filing a lawsuit representing two of those detained. joining me now is cecilia wang at the aclu. cecilia, thank you for being here. i have here what you filed, 20 pages long. when you are looking at what is. happening today. what do you want to happen to those two detained at jfk, darweesh, one of them was released but other iraqis have not been? >> that's right, richard, our lawsuit is not only on behalf of mr. darweesh and mr. al shawi who are being turned away as we speak. president trump's order yesterday was not only a moral

crisis and a risk to national security because he's fuelling anti-american forces around the world in their view that the united states is anti-muslim. but it's a constitutional crisis that president trump has sets off. so by filing lawsuits, as well as by americans around the country going to jfk, going to airports around the country to show solidarity and to show that we believe in a rule of law, i believe that we're going to prevail and we're going to get these people into the country who have a right to be here as refugees and as people who hold valid visas that have been issued by our government. >> detail, one of them is that, if you have a valid visa and if you're a refugee, you're saying in thisfiling, that you should be allowed through airports and immigration, is that right? >> that's correct, president trump has violated due process by infringing on the right that these people, our clients and others around the country have, understand laws enacted by

congress to file asylum claims and for relieve under the convention against torture. as we point out in the complaint, president trump's order also violates our core equal protection laws in the united states. >> yeah. >> by signaling people out from seven majority muslim countries. and as he threatened during the campaign, he's going after muslims and discriminating on the basis of religion. so, beyond this lawsuit, we have a serious effort by president trump to the basic founding principle. >> seven countries listed in the order do not represent the largest muslim countries in the world. but, do, of course, have large muslim populations, hameed darweesh, one of your clients said this. i want to play this quickly and get to your response. >> i'm very thankful and i'm very happy. really, i forget what i fear,

what happened to me. because they're good people. >> what do you think of america? >> america is the greatest nation. the greatest people in the world. >> now, the spokesperson for senator jeff sessions was saying this has happened before. there are wrinkles after orders, or laws that are put in place. and the process actually coming to be put together in an efficient manner. do you accept that response? >> we do not accept it. the american people will not accept it. this is not about wrinkles. the order is unconstitutional. it is plain and simple. it's religious discrimination. it's violating people's due process rights and equal protection rights, and more than that, it's a moral feeling. americans around the country are going to stand up against president trump's orders, and we see that already agency the reporter reported from jfk. >> and as the signs are showing there at jfk, thank you so much,

cecilia wang it the aclu who has filed a suit against president trump for his executive order as for those detained in the last 24 hours. thank you. to get more perspective on the legal question, we'll go to our legal attorney here michael michael, the claim is illegalness unconstitutional, is that correct? >> i believe it is unconstitutional and inappropriate. i think the president is jen lynn inclined and wants to improve our vetting system. but with 11 million people here already, and the whole premise of this executive order was laid out in the first paragraph. and all of the hijackers came from saudi arabia. there's not one focused on saudi arabia. this doesn't make sense. seven countries, 11 million people. i have a doctorate from iran that is physically stuck in italy. he goes the world over to do

surgeries and cure people he's got a green card and can't get back here. >> what are you telling me? >> he's nervous, upset. and he's not the only one calling me. bottom line, we are facing a different administration. and we are facing perilous times. but our founding fathers fought pirates in the high seas. we never stopped taking refugees, the muslims countries what's going on right now, we're stopping completely to take refugees, placing jews, other nationals in harm's way. that is not the contour of what our president and our mission is about. >> so, as a second generation immigration lawyer here, you've been through this before, what's the strongest legal response you that would make? >> my father represented john lennon when he took on the nixon administration. i happened to have represented melania trump and i represent some of the trump organizations. but this is a major of principle. despite the president's sincerity and wanting to vet and create more processes, it's to

the courts. and more importantly, i'm an immigration professor. the plenary power here of immigration that's vested in congress, congress has to step up. hopefully, the deafening silence we've seen for decades will not resume on monday morning. >> michael, will this get to the supreme court? >> absolutely. you want to know something, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better. the moral compass of america is made on immigration. how can we turn our backs on these individuals. worse, on a weekend, i have couples now that are split. professionals. >> we have to end with this, you said you have worked with the trump family fore, what can you tell me about that, vis-a-vis what he's doing on immigration? >> mrs. trump is an immigrant herself who travailed and respected compliance all the way through. mr. trump has used the visas for years. they understand that dynamic spirit that's here. we can't let a bunch of pirates scare us again.

>> is this surprising this must be surprising to you? >> you know, i'm also a former mayor in new jersey. so i understand the political and the campaign promise. but this is not the way you deal with people's lives. >> are you saying he's saying but he doesn't believe it? >> i think he believes it. i think this is the wrong way to go about it. >> michael wallace. thank you for being an immigration attorney. awesome perspective. for more on the executive order and how the international community is responding, we're now joined by ayman mohyeldin. this executive order challenges, presented to u.s. allies, it's inconsistencies that can be out there from one country versus another. and how is that being talked about ayman? >> yeah, right now, reaction of official coming from arab country it's in fact the broader muslim world has been slow to trick until. we knew that some talk about a potential muslim ban was

outright condemned by a lot of leaders across the arab world. this is not that full-on ban that was referenced. certainly, some are going to interpret this as an effective ban. you talk about the issue of allies. how is this going to be perceived by some and inconsistencies. obviously, as we've been discussing throughout the course of the day, anyone looking at terror attacks that happened from the united states. from the most severe and spectacular, that of 9/11 and more recently, the pulse nightclub shooting in orlando, none of the countries on this list have emanated terrorists into the united states. from that perspective, people are saying these aren't the countries behind the attacks. some of them were actual american citizens, whether omar mateen or nader hassan in ft.

hood. you make the argument that there are failed states or states that don't have a good system of government unanimo governor unanimous in place. you can't make the argument that you're banning iranians because they're a fail safe. that's exactly the opposite of that. inconsistencies and the question whether or not this is going to alienate more of the muslim world. >> iran, since you brought that up, quid pro quo, retaliation based on what's happened so far, with the state department missing four of its key leaders as of this week. put that together. >> well, this is obviously going to implicate issues beyond immigrants from one country to another or travelers. we can't expect tit for tat. but if is a question of how this country is going to perceive president trump. it's some in ways a ban but a

punitive measure. as we're saying iran does not fit the bill of other countries on that list. they're not a failed state. they have not carried out any terror taxi on u.s. soil as we've listed other examples like saudi arabia and what have you. their view is this a punitive system taken. and green card holders as you just heard from your last expert saying there are doctors and students and others that are legally allowed to travel to the united states and are now going to be banned from doing so. so iran is going to reciprocate that same measure against america. if you start seeing other countries exercise that same type of position against americans, you can see this kind of -- i hate to say it a travel war, or visa war. immigrant war, if you will, between one country and another. there are a lot of americans that live overseas in muslim countries. you'd hate to see those muslim

countries take tit for tat. that would isolate it a lot more. >> it does seem to be quid pro quo. we'll have to watch out for that. ayman, you wear a lot of hats, international correspondent, as well as msnbc anchor. here's a live look at the white house. we're waiting president of the united states trump. amongst all of the reaction to the executive order regarding the crackdown on immigration, we expect more executive orders this hour. we'll bring that to you when it happens. we're also watching the situation at jfk airport where the chants are loud and so are the fanatics.

tais really quite simple.est it comes in the mail, you pull out the tube and you spit in it, which is something southern girls are taught you're not supposed to do. you seal it and send it back and then you wait for your results. it's that simple.

when do we want it? >> now! >> those are the words that have been chanted for the last several hours at jfk. airports in new york city, on the left, you see the white house where we expect donald trump no doubt probably watching what's happening, as there are refugees that have been detained. estimated according to one representative of congress at a dozen. two held at jfk. now, as we wait for more information on as well new executive orders coming from the white house, democratic leaders are responding to trump suspended travel. take a listen. >> it shows in so many respects how this new president does not understand the values that animate the country. the values that founded the country. he likes to portray himself as a stronger leader. but these are the actions of a

weak and fearful leader. >> joining me is democratic strategic jessica ealicc. and jenna john sunvnson reporter with "the washington post." jessica, we listened to the sounds and we look at what we're seeing here at jfk, it has been said by those on the right, this has happened before, in terms of the wrinkle between law and order. and then the actual application of that executive order. and that law. when you see this, do you agree with that? >> well, certainly, we've seen what they would call wrinkles but unfortunately, what's happening here is given the rapid fire nature of which these executive orders tends to be coming out of the white house, we'll see more this afternoon, they aren't exactly thought out in a way that would be applicable in their best sense.

but i don't think that's going to stop the president or the white house from doing. i think from his point of view, this is fulfilling his campaign promises. but certainly, from, you know, the demonstrators, the people who are filing the lawsuits, you know, those people who find that this -- it goes against everything that we believe in as americans. you know, unfortunately, we've had situation information the past where even in world war ii, there were voboats of jewish refugees turned around and the leader killed. this is not the first time we've had conflict in this country. it's certainly a time to make a change in how we're handling it. >> jessica, you bring up very good historical context. for 70 years since that incident, the united states has certainly turned itself around and most of the refugees of the world throughout since.

robert trainum. to that similar to what jessica has brought up, will we see a reduction of what is typically 80,000 refugees from around the world coming to america. >> it appears that way, about 100,000 refugees have come to america. under the executive order that i've just read that will probably go down to 50,000. this is a larger question for america. one, it's a constitutional question. number two it's a moral question. we're better than this. we've already learned from our mistakes from which jessica mentioned a few moments ago of which we've done this in the past. the caveat about this, we are living in very interesting time when it comes to isis when it comes to people who wake up every single day that want to kill us. the question becomes how do we make sure that the bad guys not get in? but also make sure that the people who have our values and people who are fleeing religious

persecution, for people flee oppressiveness because they very much to be lgbtlgbtq. that's the balance here. i don't think that the white house has clearly thought this through. >> jenna, on the left-hand side of the screen, we have jerrold nadler, who may be able to give us an update. they've been watching what is happening at jfk. when you look at what robert was just saying, the numbers that we're looking at coming into the country right now of refugees annually. robert saying this will probably change. we've seen bipartisan criticism of this. will we see a congress, a senate, with republicans leading saying you must stop this? you must reverse this? >> well, almost all republicans, and also a lot of democrats have

said, you know, there need to be more things that we do when we vet refugees who are coming into this country. there's already months and months of vetting that goes into every application for someone who is coming over. but there are a lot of concerns across the country. there are a lot of misconceptions across the country about refugees. about people who immigrate into the united states from some of these countries. on the list, in the order. and they're looking to their lawmakers to do something different. so what we're really going to have to look and see is, what are the recommendations that come back to president trump? from agencies that have been ordered to spend some time reviewing this, studying this and coming up with -- recommendations how to do it better. >> a senior dhs official telling nbc news news that professional public servants at department of state and department of homeland

security, that they had no input in the drafting of the documents that we are now seeing the effects of, those who are being detained. and they are scrambling at the moment to figure out how to interpret and implement those words that have come over from the white house, related to the executive order. and i'll quote this, one official saying, nobody has any idea what is going on. in your time reporting for "the washington post," have you seen this before? and have you heard anything about this? >> yes. scrambled is exactly the word to describe this. president trump signed this order late yesterday. more than two hours later, it was sent to reporters. and a lot of people are still trying to make sense of it. the first lawsuit came overnight. it's now saturday. agencies are trying to make sense of this. lawyers are trying to make sense. >> stand by, we see jerrold nadler speaking with perhaps

more information. >> -- joined by congressman velasquez, and francesca moya. i want to make two major points. first, the executive order signed by president trump is discriminatory, discriminatory on religion and, frankly, quite disgusting. it's also counterproductive. the express intent is to protect the united states against terrorists. but the fact of the matter is, not a single terrorist incident since before 9/11 has been caused by anyone in these seven countries that the president named. by contrast, a country like saudi arabia which produced most of the attackers on september 11th was not covered by this order. secondly, the refugees who have valid visas, the president said he wants extreme vetting. we've been doing extreme vetting

for years. we've been doing vetting. all of these refugees have been examined and they're bona fided and their records looked into for an average of two years. two years by american authorities. the person who is held and who was released this morning, finally released this morning, who was detained overnight ham immediate darweesh is a marked man in iraq because he served as an interpreter and worked with american troops. he helped the u.s. army for years. he is not a potential terrorist. so it's counterproductive. it's ridiculous and it discriminates on the basis of religion. because christians from these countries are allowed in. only muslims are not. that goes against never ounce of our tradition fro george washington onward and it doesn't help protect the united states. the second point is that the application of this, and this --

dealing with the people we have here today, it's particularly ridiculous. even if you said that you wanted to keep people from certain countries out of the united states, once you have vetted certain people, once the american people have -- the american staff people, the state department people, the military people have looked at a given individual and said this person is no threat. looked at them for two years and they've given him a valid visa, and then while in the air, the executive order comes out. he should be permitted to enter the country. people will not be permitted obviously to get on a plane. they wouldn't get any more visas. people in the air should not suddenly be taken into custody in this country. that makes no sense at all. because, offafter all, the timi of the order, one day earlier or one day later is based on happenstance.

people coming into this country from these countries. one more day from people with valid visas in the air would make no difference at all. so, a application makes no sense. and unconstitutional and disgusting application violates every tradition of this country. and we're here to say this should be stopped and reskrvoke. >> thank you, i'm congresswoman velasquez. i represent a district that has a lot of iignt families. mr. president, look at us, this is america. what you have done is shameful. it's un-american. and it's created so much confusion. not only among working families and families in america, but

also it's creating confusion with people working in department of homeland security. this executive order is arbitrary. it doesn't provide real guidelines. and it's unjust. here we have refugees who were granted legal visas to enter this country. and yet, they have been detained illegally. that is the argument. that both congress january jerry nadler and i, as well as the assistance project is making. i am begging, it's ill advised. it's mean-spirited. it's tearing families apart. and that is not who we are. it will undermine the cooperation and collaboration that we need for muslim

countries to fight terrorism. it is wrong and we will fight it today and every single day. [ cheers and applause ] >> i'm becky haller, i'm director of the international assistance project. we are the lawyers for hundreds and hundreds of refugees who are currently stranded and trying to enter this country. we have been contacted today by dozens and dozens of refugees, people whose lives are in danger

because they worked as interpreters for the u.s. military in iraq and afghanistan. husband it's trying to reunite with wives who were given visas to the united states after extensive vet, put on a plane and promised refuge. and then landed and put in hand cuffs. the gentleman that was detained overnight spent years ago of his life in iraq serving the interest of the u.s. so when he got to the country last night on a visa, he was interrogated for hours. he was handcuffed. he was separated from his wife and child. he was ultimately released because of the attention this is generating. dozens and dozens of people remain in airport detention throughout the country. for simply being unlucky enough to have gotten on a plane did the day president trump signed the executive order. anthe damage it will do to

u.s. credibility, especially with our middle east allies who we desperately need in the nice against isis, there are hundreds of people who are going to be put in jail today box the department of homeland security is choosing to interpret the policy to allow them to detain people who are attempting to lawfully enter this country after years and veyears of vettg and we do not stand by while that happens. >> thank you, are there any questions? >> we know that one of the other people being detained is an iraqi refugee. his wife was persecuted for her work with the u.s. government. he has a green card now. she's desperate to reach him. he landed last night, and he won't let him move on from jfk. he's still being heard. we've heard there are an additional nine people, we can't confirm any of their names. without their names we can't do anything for them. we're also asking for customs

and border patrol and department of homeland security to please release the names of the people they're holding so they're not in a black hole. once you land in the u.s., you set foot in a u.s. airport, you have visa rights. if they won't name the people that they're holding there's no way those people can access the rights guaranteed them by the u.s. constitution. >> we're hearing the descriptions of the two there detained at jfk about what they have done for the united states of america. one, an interpreter, his wife and child here in the united, that interpreter darweesh has been doing it for ten years, 2013, hameed darweesh, a u.s. contractors is aftssisting our troops. also listening to congresswoman

value lags kwe velasquez. >> when we hear these stories, people who have risked their lives for the u.s. military and then when they try to make their way to the united states because they're no longer safe or welcome in the country that they were assisting, if you will, a foreign military force, this is fairly inconsistent with the fanatic that may come from the republicans saying we are for the military. we do support strong international and foreign affairs policies. these don't come together, necessarily. >> no. not at all. and in fact, that goes to my earlier point about this country is going to have to look itself in the mirror and ask itself, what do we believe in, what do we stand for? and are we going to continue to allow refugees into this country who have been persecuted? i think what has just happened is that the administration has

walked up to the beehive an has hit the beehive. now, all of a sudden, you see all of these bees swanning here. and now we may get stung here. it appears we haven't thought this through. however, i cannot stress this enough. there are people who come into this country that abuse the refugee laws that want to harm us. so, i believe the president is trying to make sure that those type of individuals do not come into this country. i applaud him for that. however, this needs to be thought through. these are people's lives. this is really, really serious stuff. >> and these numbers do not support necessarily a very large number, robert, agency ys you k. you talk about the beehive. jessica, i want your response on this. when we look at the statistics of the department of state, we are talk about a beehive that crosses continents. 31,000 from africa, 12,000 from asia, 4,000 from europe and the list goes on.

this is not about one part of the world. nor is it only muslims. it's also christians. this group of develop that are some reportedly that are also christians that are being detained. this includes a lot of individuals, refugees, when you talk about this beehive. your thought? >> well, i think it's a very good point about it being a beehive that goes across the world, for people coming into this country. but i think this sets a precedent now also for european countries for whether it be france, or germany, for groups signaling that they'd like to stop refugees that they have flooding the borders as well. this reall is a green light for all of those groups throughout western europe who are allies that, you know, they can also put in place that detain people that block them. and sort of try to contain people into various areas. and certainly, this is a change

that goes even since 9/11, you know, we changed our vetting processes. we certainly -- you know, i worked with the irc and refugees for many years as an attorney. and the papers continued to change and change. catholic charities has been on the forefront of moving a lot of people from somalia and helping them go into dallas and places like minneapolis, where we're seen these issues over and over again. but we weren't prepared for this. this is one of the things that donald trump ran on. this was a pillar of his campaign. it was one of the main things that his supporters actually are for. so, we can say, yes, this goes against everything, buts, you know, on the base of the statue of liberty. the wonderful poem, you know, bring us your teeming huddled masses. well, that's not happening right now. that's part of this america first policy. i hope there are a lot of people at the aclu that are very against this who knew this was coming and are prepared. because this is the first salvo

that donald trump is sending across the bow. i think his team including rick bannon, this is something they've constructed, whether it's successful or not. if they even block these 12 people, to them, it's a win, and it's going to continue and we have to be prepared for that. >> jessica, i want to build on what you say and jenna, back to you on this, this beehive goes across the world and also in time. at the operation of pedestal of the statue of liberty. we saw the left-hand screen of the sign that says give me your poor, your huddled masses. emma lazarus wrote that. when she passed away in the early 1990s, they put it in the pedestal of the united states. jenna, are we rewriting that? >> well, for a long time, for generations there has been a

fear in the united states of refugees coming in. people who are different coming in. i went to more than 170 trump rallies last year, let me tell you, this proposal was very popular at those rallies. there are a lot of people out who are very fearful of people coming from countries like syria. people who are muslim. and donald trump tapped into that and it gives them this answer which came in this executive order. and with the pushback that we've been seeing, i mean, it hasn't even been 24 hours and people are protesting in the streets. filing lawsuits. and it really gets down to this core question of what are we as america? there are two very different narratives out there about what we are as a country and what it means to welcome in people from elsewhere. a lot of trump supporters i talked to say they're not against immigrants coming into the country. they just want to make sure a

bunch of different rules are followed. so in the coming weeks, we're going to have to figure out what that means. >> all three of you, thank you so much. we'll have to leave it there. great conversation based on what we're watching on the left-hand screen. the breaking news of those at jfk, jessica, robert, jenna, all three of you, i really do appreciate it. a live look at jfk airport, by the way, as i was talking about, the chants continue. this after 12 people were detained as they tried to enter the united states. we just heard from congressman jerrold nadler about the 11 people still detained there. that's charmin ultra strong, dude. cleans so well, it keeps

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>> and you see congresswoman velasquez standing to the left of there hameed darweesh. she's shedding a couple tears as this individual was just detained after serving the united states as a contractors in iraq. in what has been a very difficult war zone, being detained after he finally makes it to the united states. not wanted in his own country, unsafer in his own country. he's coming to visit his wife and daughter who had already made it to the united states. and then to be detained. that was the emotion that happened earlier today. this, as a result of the executive order that was signed by president trump on friday which stopped all of those coming from seven countries. all of those refugees tha had pursued visas in this situation, from coming into the united states. let's now bring in retired u.s. army brigadier mark kemet.

brigadier general, these are individuals you know very well. these are nationals that have decided to do something very dangerous for themselves. when you heard darweesh say what he said, what came to your mind? >> well, listen, i just got back from baghdad two days ago. and we need to understand that these people that have helped us out, these contractors, but more importantly, the translators who fought side by side our troops for so many year have gone through an extreme vetsing process to get over here in the first place. they deserve to be in the united states. they've earned the right to come over here. and i'm saddened to see that we're having this program that is going to deny them for at least some period of time the ability to come here. >> he had served the united states as an interpreter for ten years. and yet, he came to the microphones and was resiliencl

to his situation and you see the one member of congress taken to tears? >> i was sad to seat representatives there because that turned it into a partisan issue. it was the this really is a bipartisan issue. and primarily within the united states military, i think the united states soldiers airmen and marines that have fought side by side with these translators in iraq know what they have done for us. and athey know they deserve the right to come officer. so sad to see this is happening. and i think it will also have some problems in our reciprocal relationships. >> those who want to vet those coming over ehere legally becaue of concern of terrorism or terroristic acts, do you agree with that energy and therefore the way that this president is implementing this idea?

>> first of all, let's be very clear. both the bush administration and the obama administration when they set up the siv program, the special immigrant visa program, demanded that these precrecipie go through an extreme vetting process, many who went through almost two years by the department of homeland security. so these are already vetted people who have served this nation and for them to be stopped and held up byhis broad brush policy is in many ways outrageous. >> we have to go. how would you change the executive order? sgri >> i think we need a carve out for the sivs at least. they have been vetted, they have earned the right to come to this country. some of their fellow translators have died side by side. they want to get a new life. if anybody deserves to come in here, it is those interpreters that have served us so well. >> always a pleasure to have you, brigadier general. i thank you for staying with us.

but at this hour, we are still looking at the 11 more iraqis that are still being detained at the airport according to congressman nadler. kasie hunt reporting that the white house was working on granting a waiver for one or iraqi refugee. no word if they are working on waivers for the others reportedly held up. now i'd like to bring in executor director of the national immigration law center. thank you for being with us. this is tough types. we look at immigration law as well as the complexities of implementing new law or in this case an executive order. as i mentioned, one iraqi released, 11 more in custody. how do we make sense of what may happen to them based on the way the law stands now? >> thanks for the invitation, richard. so we at the national immigration law center are so honored to represent mr.

darweesh. the resilience you saw and you heard from him is the same resilience of all of the refugees trying to come over to the united states. we're concerned that the other 11 individuals that are being held at jfk, we represent mr. darweesh and the other individual named plaintiffs, but we've asked the court to certificate tie this certify this as a class action lawsuit so we can protect nipples in a similar situation. >> we have 12 day. as i was looking at the department of states report of refugees coming to the united states in 2016 abo, that number about 84,000. how many more might be affected by what we're seeing today? >> well, part of the problem is that we don't have any information. there is such a lag ck of transparency and frankly chaos. last night at 11:30 p.m., i was talking to folks at the border

patrol after trying for hours to reach someone to see if we could get mr.darweesm released. but i was told that they were just studying the executive order. they didn't know when guidance would be released. at earliest, this morning. so we are hearing anecdotally that there may be possibly dozens at other airports and other parts of the country, we have lawyers and other organizers that are going to different airports around the country, so we'll have a better sense of that in the next few hours. we're also deeply concern that had we're now getting reports that people are green cards, lawful permanent residence, also are not being able to come back into the united states. they consider the united states their permanent home and they, too, are also being barred there returning. >> a lot of information coming and a lot of data that will have to vet. thank you so much to being with us on a very busy day. and i now want to bring in steve

clements. steve, when we look at what she was saying, they didn't know, they were still studying what was happening. i want to repeat that we just got in a senior dhs official telling us that the professional public servants at state and dhs had no in-tput whatsoever in th drafting of the documents and theye scrambling trying to implement that. no one has any idea, unquote one official has said. how is the world looking at this? >> they are look at the united states as a place that is in a mess right now. tied in knots. undependable. and acting in a way they have never seen it before. this is trying -- this is donald trump trying to govern by decree very much like a monarch, just spewing orders.

the way in which every republican and democratic president before him has governed at least in this modern era is through an inner agency process where executive orders are vetted and work through the various departments and agencies so there is a consistency to the footprint of change that we have. that is just not happening in this case. and it is a remarkable moment. and it's basically sending a shockwave through the rest of the world. and i have to say that while we see the protests going on here, i know republicans frankly in the congress are just as dids m dismayed right now. they're worried about what they see unfolding. >> those in support of there are saying that the core of why this is being done is good. that is to keep the bad elements out of the united states. if you agree with that, would it be mor of a process problem signed on friday, didn't have

the processes in place and if so, have we seen this before as some have said? >> richard, let me go back in history. after 9/11, we largely shut our borders. we largely did what you see happening today. i remember john ashcroft giving a speech where he said we needed to separate bad people from good people and it was going to take us a decade to figure out how to do that. at the same time, the ceo of intel was out there saying if we have that kind of policy, not only are we going to undermine the american brand in the world and undo that kind of magic talent stealing that we would do from around the world of bringing it in the u.s., but it would shut down engineering programs in the united states, it would shut down a lot of the talent pipeline in the united states. and we kind of worked through that. so what we're seeing today is the recreation of that dramatic tension after 9/11, but we're imposing it on ourselves. there has been no shock of the

level and dimension of 9/11. this is completely self-imposed. so that is what is gripping about it moment. it could have been smoother and you could have tried to both maintain the equities of bringing the great and the good and the needy and the desperate whom we should helpn while keeping a vigilance against those that are bad. >> steve, we have to go. what would be your headline suggestion for the atlantic on this? we're hoping to have you next hour by the way. >> i think right now just slow down. slow down. get the other agencies on board. >> always a pleasure. editor at large from the atlantic. appreciate it. we're looking at these live pictures at the airport in new york city at jfk. 11 people detained there. one was released just this afternoon. coming on the heels of president trump's executive order on friday. we'll take a short break and be right back.