california. this after a stop in arizona yesterday. that's a wrap for us. i'm alex witt alongside ayman a alternative to the "facts of life" kellyanne conway would on the show fox this morning. not only did she complain about nordstrom dropping yvonivanka trump's clothing line but used her position to give ivanka a rare and illegal product plug. >> people can see by that. go ivanka's stuff is what'm going to tell you. i hate shopping and get some of it myself today. i own some of it and give a free commercial here. go try it and everybody buy it online. >> she is going to have a post-white house career on qvc or the home shopping channel. >> that would be happening now, i think. run-away beard truck.

that is not appropriate, is it? >> it's available now. >> go plugs, too. >> you've worn it. it's really good. >> exactly. exactly. it's friday, february 10th. >> we have so many developing stories to wade our way through this morning. with us on set political analyst and co-author of game change mark halpern. >> mark has been talking to martha's lawyers overnight from the university of havana. >> i only talk to the left of the ninth circuit. >> we have washington anchor for bbc news katty kay and a visiting fellow at the american enterprise constitute is tim carney. good to have you all on board. let's get to the heart of the matter. late yesterday, another court battle now brewing after a federal appeals court refused to

impose the president's order to halt visitors from a seven countries. here is democratic governor jay inis dly. >> the president lost in a numerous of ways for lack of evidence. he did not present evidence that this was a security threat to be recommended by this effort. he did not present this does not discriminate against a muslim faith. it was clear from the evidence that was presented, this does discriminate and sends muslims to the back of the bus. >> the president of the united states shortly after the decision writing in all cap letters on twitter. see you in court. the security of our nation is at stake. and he had this to say to nbc

news moments later. >> so you want to appeal and take this to supreme court? >> we will see them in court. it's a political decision that we are going to see them in court and i look forward to doing it. >> you believe the judges made a -- >> we have a situation where the security of our country is at stake and it's a very, very serious situation so we look forward, as i just said, to seeing them in court. >> sir, do you think this is undercut the early days of your presidency? this is such a core issue. >> no. this is just a decision that came down but we are going to win the case. >> the president said he plans to select a solicitor general that argue the case at the supreme court by next week. there you go. >> a little context around this. benjamin is the executive order of the blog "law fair." he writes this.

>> all right. so that is the statute. >> right. >> that the president relied on. that is a the statute that gives the president broad overwhelming power in this process. so that's what the court will look at to see if the president

went beyond the four corners of that law. >> right. >> it doesn't mention green card holders. >> go ahead. >> so he goes on. the entire opinion the panel did not bother even to cite the statute which form the principle statutory basis for the executive order. a pretty big omission over 29 pages. >> and it was remarkable and i saw a lot of legal commentary last night saying the same thing. not only did the ninth not talk about the statute that gives the president powe this is what you examine to see if he has gone beyond the boundaries. that would be like the court taking a free speech case and not talking about the first amendment. it was preposterous. when you start seeing chris matthews and alan dershowitz and a lot of people on the left and the right, here is somebody at brookings saying that -- it's a good -- you have -- our law

professors always told us bad facts ma make bad law. horrific facts, coupled with horrific politics, makes for horrific law. that's exactly what happened here. a couple of things really quickly. they ignored the ruling law. they just as a matter of course gave the state of washington standings. there's no specific person with a specific injury that is specifically going to be addressed by this action, which usually is how you get standings. the ninth decided not to last night. and, also, you talked about green card holders. they radically extended the rights beyond mere green card holders and did something the supreme court has never done and extended this to potentially claims for possible new claims

for immigrants. i would love to see justice scalia's response to this. he would have chopped it up in a million pieces. by the way, while i'm saying this, remember, i'm deeply offended by this executive order. i have done nothing but advice rate this executive order for three weeks. it's a nightmare the way it was set up was a nightmare. >> the rollout. >> this decision, though, is laughable and then this is, for me, the most disturbing part of the entire case. by the way, at the end, this isn't going to matter because i think the white house is going to fix this up. briefly fix it up and a do a couple of quick changes and take care of these problems. the ninth said the government has pointed to no evidence that any alien from any of the countries named in the order have perpetrated a terrorist attack in the united states, as if it is the executive branch's

job to actually get the intel community in and say these are all of the things that are going to happen. now, in fact, barack obama worked with a bipartisan congress to come up with these seven countries, not because there were specific attacks, but because they saw deteriorating security situation that they wanted to remedy. they wanted to prevent attacks. that's the entire purpose of that. any way. so this will be overturned, but i think let's bring in via skype professor at george washington university jonathan turley. if anyone in the white house has any sense, they will just take a couple of days, use the interagency process and more narrowly draft this so all of this discussion quickly becomes mute. >> well, i think it was proofly drafted at the outset and a

horrible rollout. i think there is almost uniform view of that on both sides of this. but i agree that this is a rather curious opinion and in the art world it would be call impressionistic. >> well done. yes. >> the court takes these very broad views of not just the law, but the facts. the administration has said one of the reason these countries are on the list is because they don't have reliable ways of confirming information for entry, not simply that they produced actual terrorists, but that they are record, their process, their procedures are not trusted. now you can disagree with that but that is an argument that the administration made. it's simply dismissed. the court also dismissed the fact that green card holders were exempted and said it just doesn't trust that that exemption will be permanent or that it was done correctly. a lot to really question about

this opinion. >> jonathan, in that case another thing take stood out. you actually had the chairman of the department of homeland security testify that green card holders were, in fact, exempt? and, yet, the court, as you said, they took the broadest, sometimes inaccurate but the broadest view of the facts thrown out and cherry-picked them. it was fascinating you can go back and see what donald trump said on the campaign when he talked about a muslim ban, a muslim ban. well, later in the campaign, he started specifically saying it's not a muslim ban and we are going to go to extreme vetting. again, everybody can debate donald trump and his psychology and why he did that. but you and i both know that a court cannot go back to a previous statement and drag it in and use that as the intent of an order. also, aren't you shocked?

why didn't they use the underlying statute that actually gives presidents the power to do this? >> that was particularly strange. a old joke asking a guy who is looking for a missing ring and say did you lose it here? and he says, no, but the light is better here. there were compelling arguments made on both sides but it largely ignored the arguments on one side. and i think that is what is going to prompt the administration likely to go to supreme court even though it's just as short. >> jonathan turley, thank you very much. >> there is a balancing act here, right, between the injuries that people are going to sustain or potentially sustain. again, we have no specific plaintiffs here. so that is problematic. versus basically the government's power to protect its people. you read this opinion 29 pages

of it. it is all, again, there is no balance. it's all weighted -- not to specific harm and injury, but to potential due process claims. it was, again, it was extraordinarily unbalanced and makes for very bad law. >> no. i have to agree with that. i was very surprised by it and, you know, they put everything they had on due process. when they got to the religious discrimination, they basically stated both sides and said the records really not here to decide this question. i didn't think it was a very compelling opinion and it doesn't really give a very good compelling basis to go forward with on the other side. now, having said that, taking a tro appeal to supreme court is, itself, a precarious measure, but i don't think the administration views it as having much of a choice. >> jonathan turley, thank you

very much. reaction, my gosh, after this happened yesterday was wild on twitter. hillary clinton tweeting 3-0. just that's all. just laying it out there. >> kellyanne conway tweeting back, whoa. pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan. >> needs to stop being a run-away beer truck. that is my editorial. i told her to go get a job. she is going to end up in the -- >> sleep would help. >> nope. just telling you all the truth. >> but donald trump is learning whether we think this is fair or not how things work. >> i think he is learning how things work. a check on his power. >> i want to make sure, willie, you matter most to me because of what special relationship we have. again, i'm sayin about the court's decision what i said about executive order. the executive order was outrageous and disheartening and it showed the worst side of america. it showed sloppiness in the white house.

i hate politicized decisions too and i feel kind of stupid after slamming donald trump for several weeks for saying don't say that the courts are politicize it. >> they were tweeting, by the way. >> very politicized decision and disheartening. >> when he says we will see you in court his big tweet in all caps, that is the next step here, he is right. as jonathan turley says it throws the supreme court conversation into a fascinating context. 4-4 decision means this ruling by the ninth is the ruling. they can't overturn it on a -- >> mark halpern is shaking his head. >> he is ready. >> he has nicaraguan lawyers. >> they did put everybody on due process and took advantage of the sloppiness of the order and

even the revision by the homeland security secretary and the white house counsel. the political reality of this is that the white house doesn't redraft it and if they want to fight it out in court, i think it will be pain for them for weeks. >> i totally agree. >> so they are unlucky. the fastest case that developed to the court of appeals level was in the ninth circuit. they have this decision. i don't agree with everything that has been said about the decision. i agree with some of it. >> we will pass your complaints to jonathan turley. >> i'll take it up with him directly. for instance, i think the standing thing is kind of ridiculous but they did cite some people in the opinion but i agree with you those are the people that should be bringing it, not the states. >> that is another thing scalia would chop up. >> the president, the lawyer who argued this to the justice department at the end tried to change his position and back off which is not uncommon. >> he did. most legal observers agreed. let's just say it. he did a horrific job. one of the worst jobs.

he went in one of the greatest advantages. this was the legal version of the atlanta falcons winning 28- going into the fourth quarter. i mean it. there is no way that lawyer should have bungled that. >> i'll say one thing about the opinion. the president does have extraordinary power to control the border but if he proposed saying we are not letting anyone named jones, then you'd say, the court has a right to strike that down. >> exactly. >> they basically have taken the position that a number of people in different categories have due process rights that aren't -- that were not correctly dealt with by the nature of the order. they are being overly differential to the white house. >> clearly the white house counsel has some answering to do. this was a terrible job on their part. my constitutional lawyer was not

in havana, but harvard on the ride. he was suggesting is there a possibility if we look at the course of the tweets that donald trump has set out attacking the judiciary and pinning blame for potential future attacks on judges, is there a possibility that actually the white house realizes it might lose this in the courts and donald trump is setting himself up in a position god forbid there was a future attack he can turn around and say i tried and did to correct the american people but it's the judges. >> the thing is a lot of americans that don't follow the law might be sdrushdisturbed by. but the ninth circuit, anybody should have told the president, you get to the ninth circuit, you're going to lose there. the second it went to the ninth, i said, without knowing anything, he is going to lose there. i think he lost 3-0 instead of 2-1 because he is slamming the judges. each if i were opposed to this position and i was the bush

appointee i'll go 3-0 and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with my judges in this case. this is actually a bigger problem. there is forum shopping that is going on. liberals can go to the ninth circuit. now because there is this growing tend trend and it really started under president obama where you have district court judges putting federal injunctions in place which is outrageous. what it does, it stops the law for the entire country. >> it happened all the time. it started happening all the. barack obama,obamacare, immigration orders. republicans would go to texas. one texas federal judge would completely stop executive orders from barack obama. it allows forum shopping. that's a bigger problem. let's just strip this all down because we need to get to kellyanne conway and michael flynn and tim carney.

tim, let's strip this all down. this is very easy. they can spend this weekend and actually go through the interagency process, get general kelly involved and get the lawyers involved and get the justice department involved. they can very easily redraft this and have the president re-sign it and not be in court again. the question is whether donald trump do that? if he is worried about the safety of america, will he do that? >> no. i think you're right that redrafting the rule is important, because when you listen to that oral argument, the most friendly judge said, wait a second. you're asking us to listen to guidance from the homeland security secretary that you won't apply to green card holders even though the letter applies to green cardin holders and that is begging the white house to say reissue it. when trump responded we are

seeing in court, he is saying, no, we are not giving any ground and this is trump's personality and his strategy. we are going to counterpunch. everybody is saying write a new order. nobody with a visa is included in and narrow it. >> not only the prudent thing, tim, but if they are so concerned about an attack, the safe thing for good of the united states of america is drafted up, sign it this weekend, or on monday get it lawyered up and if we are in danger, then we can actually have an executive order in place on monday that will do the same thing, that will work effectively. >> if it's important enough to do, do it well and do the proper process and make sure the lawyers check it out. narrow it to the 90-day ban on the entrae from those seven countries and take care of what he wants to do. but it looks like he wants to fight over his original war.

>> you can't discount psychology ever to donald trump and to redraw this would be an administration of defeat. >> his best case in supreme court is a 4-4 tie and i think he could lose 5-3 or 6-2. >> he will never lose at the supreme court. >> on the merits? >> on the last dollar, i will bet you that this decision by the ninth will get chopped up by at least four members of that court. >> but four is not enough. >> i know it's not. >> i think kennedy could vote. >> no. this is an outrageous decision. >> i think he has two choices. i think choice number one is to delay this and wait several weeks and go to the supreme court to an unknown outcome. most likely a 4-4 outcome now. or you can actually, if america

is in danger the ray sean spicer and donald trump and everybody else says america is in danger, then they need to draft it up. i think there's a possibility they will draft it up. listen. you can still attack the political order in the same way now, barack obama attacked citizens united. i think it's unbecoming and makes me uncomfortable but attack the liberal court and draw up the order and move forward. >> nice. >> and clean up the mess that miller and bannon gave america and the world when they decided to go around everybody else. >> before "saturday nht live," you might want to clean it up. still ahead on "morning joe" -- rit? isn't it going to be rosy? >> let's clean it up. is rosie going to be bannon? >> i don't know if it's confirmed. >> don't bet against it. >> no more betting. joe is out of money. attorney alan dershowitz will join us. we will ask him about michael flynn broke federal law over his

conversations with russia. plus congressman jason chaffetz gets an earful in utah over everything from neil gorsuch to his comments of kellyanne conway buying from ivanka trump's line. she was giving a free commercial. someone who works in the white house. we will talk about whether she will be held accountable for her comments. >> this seems like 2009. >> republicans are facing what democrats faced in 2009. >> we will get to that. >> on monday, we are going to face, weather wise, what we faced yesterday because bill karins, i asked for snow. >> we didn't ask for that much. >> i asked for snow and i'm getting it, aren't i? >> monday looks interesting because monday could ab stronger storm but may be more isolated to the eastern portions of new england. get to that in a second. this is an interesting developing story in california. the oraville dam.

this spillway. >> whoa. >> gave way yesterday. they are releasing all of this water. they said the amount of water going in there is the same as the amount of water from the mississippi going into st. louis. the amount of water is incredibly. they may have to use an emergency spillway which the emergency spillway is the side of the mountain so it's cutting down trees and all of this water will release. the bottom line there will be huge floods downstream ofuddy water and trying to rescue a million salmon. in the east it's cold. you felt it last night as you were cleaning up. now what we deal with in the days ahead is a little snowstorm coming down saturday through the areas of the northeast. only one or two inches. the rest of the country is beautiful and warm. 85 in oklahoma city. but by the time we get to sunday, it begins to rain in new york and mixture in boston but then the storm is going to really blow up off the coast of the cape code. this is monday morning. we are looking at the possibility of three snow days in a row for areas from boston

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so president trump nomina d nominated -- all right. i get a sense of there of where we are going. when kellyanne conway said what she said about buying that particular product, that was wrong, wrong, wrong. i called it out. think need to investigate it. what kellyanne conway was wrong, it should never happen and there should be some accountability

there. absolutely. >> they are booing him even when he says when they want to hear. >> do your job was the chant if you couldn't make it out. >> i think they were going to boo everything. ed he was going to bring christmas to february and they booed it. >> do your job! that was republican jason chaffetz getting a hard time last night in his home state of utah and his hometown. >> rough crowd. >> including pressure to look into kellyanne conway, his committee has expressed concern into whether conway violated ethics law just 20 days into the trump administration. >> the answer would be yes. >> i think it's pretty obvious. that would be a yea. >> while defending first daughter ivanka trump's products which nordstrom decided not to carry saying because of declining sale. despite a drop in online sales in january alone the white house claimed the decision was political. conway made this plea on fox news from inside the white house -- >> don't do it! don't do it! >> go by ivanka's stuff is what

i will tell. put i hate shopping and i'm going to get some myself today. a wonderful line and i own some of it and i'm giving a free commercial here today. go buy it, everybody. you can find some online. >> conway was accused of running afoul of the law. >> it's a wonderful line she says with the white house seal behind her. you can't do that. >> it's the shield. >> by the way, ivanka can speak for herself. we all know ivanka. right? she can speak for herself. these people need to stop. they are not doing her any favors. they need to stop. >> the law we were talking about prohibits an employee from, quote, making any service for a nonprofit group. the government of the office crashed following kellyanne conway's comment. the top lawmakers in the house oversight committee in a rare moment of agreement asked for the office to view conway's

comments and ask for disciplinary action if warranted but the recommendation goes to the executive branch which said conway had been, quote, counseled. last night conway commented on that and the letter from congress. >> how were you counseled? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> they say that they consider that to be a very serious, potentially a serious violation of the government ethics code. >> where is that letter? and we are reviewing that internally. i'm happy i spent a lot of time with the president of the united states this afternoon and that he supports me 100%. we spoke about a range of matters and he supports me 100%. in fact, it was a very heartening moment. all i can say to american women at sominin your life you ought to have a boss who treated me the way the president of the united states treated me today. >> that was kellyanne conway last night. a report early this morning in the associated press suggests that donald trump didn't like the word counseled. in fact, he thought sean spicer

shouldn't have used it. >> who said that? >> the associated press said donald trump didn't -- >> he said sean spicer went too far and -- he is saying she is fine. he understands what she did. >> he views kellyanne defending his daughter. >> he likes the way kellyanne goes on television and fights for him for whatever it takes and likes when with he fights for her daughter as well. >> he would be the desired if there was any notion she did something wrong. so while i think there is a general agreement she did something wrong, it appears that her boss doesn't think she did. >> it's unbelievable. you can see this coming. as my torts professor would say like a freight train out of the mist. the white house is going to get a letter and they are going to say she violated ethics code. and then are they really going to do nothing about this? >> i don't know how that happens. >> if they do, that sets up --

you know what? that is one big ethics snake where the government -- >> credibility is at stake here. her credibility. >> more than that. >> i'm sorry. it's shot. >> i think it's the credibility of a white house that has already conflict of interest problems in question. >> she doesn't know the lines. she doesn't respect the lines. she doesn't really -- i watched her throughout the campaign. i thought she was very adept at trying to translate for the campaign and trying to work around things but she doesn't know the lines now that she is in washington. >> we always talk about what would happen in other white houses and who would happen here and there. if somebody had done this on the bowling green massacre, on the heels of so many other things. >> is there no credibility left. >> they would be gone in a second. >> you can say this for the president. he is consistent. he holds his employees to the

same standards he holds himself. >> joining us now senior writer of politico and co-author of "the playbook" jake sherman. >> i want to add to that letter. i think if they don't anything, you saw the pressure that jason chaffetz is under in a district he once won 75% of the vote and one of the most conservative districts in the country. >> wow. >> that is an r. plus 25 means the average republican wins by 25 points. sha chaffetz is going to come under pressure if donald trump doesn't do anything on kellyanne conway he has to hold a hearing and i think the political pressure to do. on the element of the protests, i think something big is happening across the country and republican leadership sent out a letter last night with this quote. quote, we aren't grasping for relevancy and i think the point that they are trying to make is democrats are and what they are chalking this up to. i think that is a bit of a mistake. i think you're seeing this across the country, not only in r plus 25 districts but in less

conservative districts that republicans need to hold in 2018. like you said earlier, joe, this is approaching 2009 and 2010 levels and only two weeks into the administration. >> republicans should learn from democrats who i think are, like, they are crazies. you would see them and they would be shocked. i think jason chaffetz last night, from everything we heard, was very gracious with the crowd and listened to them. what's what you do. also, my recommendation to anybody that is getting booed, pull up a chair and sit down and take off your coat and roll up your sleeves and say i'm here. you want to talk to me, let's talk. you want to scream, well -- >> that was a jeering crowd. >> you play them out. you don't rush in and rush out. you sit there. >> he did a good job. >> katty, one of the crazy things about this administration there are so many distracts. here is a kellyanne distraction,

the latest one, which actually eclipses what should be top of the news, which is the president had, by all accounts, a remarkably positive call with china last night. there was a lot of concern that we were going to have bad relations with china because of his call with taiwan. everything that we have heard about that call with chi was really positive and it loo li one of the most important relationships in the world is back on firm footing. but this has happened nonstop. i told the story a couple of days ago. i wrote a positive column about inside working of the trump administration how they were learning from their mistakes and comparing it to kennedy who screwed up to the bay of pigs and clinton, which was chaos for a while. i couldn't write it because on saturday, what was it?

saturday? oh, the attack of the judge. i said, that is okay. i'll do it on monday. but then on monday, i had to respond to the vladimir putin -- i mean, they keep -- so here, kellyanne conway is standing on top. >> again. >> of a great story of this call with china which is far more significant than probably anything that happened yesterday, other than the ninth decision. >> he got two cabinet members confirmed. wouldn't that be the story of the morning if they were playing this right? the chinese call, the cabinet confi confirmations and what he wants people to talk about. there is something about this white house that wants to ferment chaos and the spin-off you get. can you have populace insurgency and effective governing country is what we are trying to figure out at the moment.

>> jake, this has to be increasingly maddening for republicans on the hill. they will only take so much of this. i know how it works. jason chaffetz you can see him last night, okay, yes, we are going to have an investigation. he has no choice now. >> zero choice. another thing that is angering republicans on the hill donald trump goes in front of ceo airlines and say i'm releasing a tax plan in two weeks. republicans on the hill when i spoke to them yesterday said you're releasing a tax plan in two weeks? nobody who what he was talking about and not ready for a tax plan and not ready to do obamacare and why is he releasing this? listen. maybe we could chalk this up to them getting their footing early. but the patience is wearing increasingly thin as republicans have to continue to defend a top aide hawking a clothing line in front of the white house briefing podium, just kind of chaos of plans. and, also, remember, he going to florida today with the japanese prime minister which also could

be a good story he is going to reestablish trade ties after tpp collapses or he withdraws from it. we are hearing kind of nothing of that. no consistent messaging at all. >> that is another great example. we have to go to break but thank you for bringing that up, jake. had he a great call with china last night. by all accounts. and he is going golfing this weekend with the prime minister of japan which, as we all know, i mean, that is five, six, seven hours of those two together. that's pretty damn important. but all of this other news. >> in which the japanese will announce a major investment in american investment spending. >> done right without all of the distractions great headlines that this administration can't get out of the way to let people print. >> the foreign policy stuff is, obviously, important and a better relationship with japan would be great.

i still think -- we have talked about it before -- he's got to figure out how to move on the big piece of his legislative agenda and the biggest problems are that they are are not distractions in the media but that almost ignores republican elements that he needs. if he doesn't have john mccain on tax reform, not good. >> jake sherman, thank you. coming up is former harvard law professor alan dershowitz who joins the conversation on the president's travel ban. what did michael flynn say to the russian ambassador before the president was sworn in? and did that violate federal law? we are back in a moment. ♪(music plays) ♪ heigh ho!

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>> you asked about the possibility of rosie o'donnell playing steve bannon on "saturday night live." she changed her profile picture on twitter. that is rosie o'donnell photo shopped as bannon. >> that is funny. >> i'm going to be all night saturday night. >> perhaps some say that will happen this saturday. >> two incredible women going

after him. >> that would be something. >> in a big way. >> alec baldwin is hosting so you can just imagine what they are planning upstairs at this very moment. >> boy. don't know where this is going. >> i think it's huge. we will be right back with alan dershowitz. ♪ ♪

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this morning, multiple news outlets report that national security adviser michael flynn privately discussed u.s. sanctions against russia with that country's ambassador. >> but ed he didn't. >> no. well, the report from "the washington post" sources nine current and former officials who say the talks came weeks before the election and continued through the transition. flynn reportedly urged not to overreact over a new wave of sanctions that they would be revisited once trump was sworn in. "the new york times" says flynn's suggestions that sanctions could end under the new administration, quote,

unambiguous and highly inappropriate. if not a potential violation of the logan act which forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments having a dispute with the u.s. the post reporters that on wednesday, flynn said flatly no twice when asked whether he had discussed sanctions with the ambassador. but, yesterday, a spokesman followed up with the paper saying flynn, quote, indicated that while he had no recollection of discussing sanctions, he couldn't be certain that the topic never came up. >> yikes. we know where this is going. with us now is veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> mike is tired like we all are from all of this stuff. >> from miami professor emeritus alan dershowitz. this is an extraordinary difficult case for anybody to

make, but walk us through it. >> 1799 the logan act gets passed. 1803 it's applied once in its history to some farmer who wrote an article. it's never, ever going to be applied. if it were, jimmy carter and jejacksowould be sharing a jail cell. after he became president, carter did it. jesse jackson did the same thing. ronald reagan about a deal with iran before releasing the hostages before they were ever released. it's a threat but a threat that is hallow. >> i even heard last night from critics who have been really harsh on donald trump but also have been in government service saying, listen, if we are going into office three weeks from now, we want the ability to start planning and talking to some people.

if there were any violation here, and he were prosecuted, that would set future administrations back. >> of course. >> okay. the decision last night, it seems like -- let's see. what was chris matthews quote last night that i liked so much? >> there were so many. >> the court got into somebody else's marmalade. i think that is what ed. i thought after reading through it, alan, that the ninth judges were very fortunate that anthony scalia still wasn't around to write a withering majority opinion overturning what happened last night. sort through what i think was nonsense. >> well, that is the dilemma, i think, the conundrum faced by the trump administration. they have a winning argument potentially on the merits if it ever gets to supreme court, especially as it relates to people who have never been in the country and have no connection to the country, the family in yemen that simply

wants to get a visa. they probably would win. but it's going to take them months to win. and the president saying this poses an immediate threat to our national security, so the only real option he has at this point is to either rescind the order or write a new one. a conflict between donald trump's ego not saying he was wrong and the national security of the united states. i think national security has to trump ego. >> i think it will this time. >> mike? >> alan, as wiwith thousands of people prior to this he calls you to help on the appeal. many people call you to help on the appeal. write the appeal for us. what would you do? >> fire the lawyer for the government who argued this appeal. second, i argue on the basis of standing and say that this is the most extreme stretch of the standing requirement that the courts have ever experienced, saying that the state of washington standing for somebody

in yemen never met who has been in the united states. >> alan, the court just dismissively saying, yes, we have standing. they didn't go into it which is one of the key issues there. the state of washington did not have standing. >> of course. the government fell into the trap by saying that there was no possibility of review here. of course, the court has the power to review. you never tell a court that it doesn't have the power to review and expect that they are going to remain silent in response. also, the establishment argument is not a strong argument. here you have seven countries picked by the obama administration. we do have islamic extremism and terrorism. so you pick seven countries that are all mus him. is that surprising? should they have been in armenia to avoid the idea it's an establishment? i think the argument on the merits will probably prevail in the supreme court. that is the trump argument and may well prevail but take them too much time to get there.

the supreme court is not going to grant a stay because it would create chaos at this point. they have to make a very hard decision and for the sake of america, i hope they make the right decision. >> alan dershowitz, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, professor. >> much more ahead on what the trump administration's next steps will be after losing the latest court battle over that travel ban. and breaking news overnight. as the president gets another cabinet member confirmed. tom price now set to lead the department of health and human services. we will have more on that party line vote that came down at 2:00 a.m. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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snow made it difficult for anybody who was traveling in and out of the city. here is what some people had to say. this woman said this was a nightmare. my flight in laguardia was cancelled and days before i could get out of here. this man said i don't expect to get home any time soon. this woman says, oh, no, looks like i can't make it to washington, d.c. this weekend. bummer for me. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday. are we all glad it's friday? >> all glad. >> the news won't stop on february 10th. with us is mike barnicle and co-author of "game change" mark halpern. wow. commentary editor for "the washington examiner" tim carney and joining the conversation is the ceo of the aspen center is

best selling author walter isaacson. what are y'all laughing at? >> i'm laughing at michael. >> really? >> they are up to something. why don't we start with a little news that the -- heard from several sources that the white house is, right now, they are working on redrafting an executive order, but want to make sure that it is tight enough to pass. >> that is huge news. >> professor dershowitz gave them the exact outne and perfect. >> by the standard we will talk about in a second the ninth laid out yesterday what version of the executive order could clear that court? it was so broad. what order could they get through the court? >> that is what the lawyers are trying to figure out today. also, it's hard to figure out how you pass a court's test when

the court, last night, ruled as broadly as they did. start with the first issue standing. i still find it hard to believe that the supreme court of the united states would find standing with washington state, because to bring a case before federal court, you have to have standing. you have to be be injured. you have to list a specific injury to yourself and you have to show how the court, by ruling, can redress your injury. >> can they forum shop? >> that's one of the biggest problems. you ask barack obama and he will be the first to say how outrageous it was that you would have republicans taking his executive orders down to texas. and a national injunction. this is outrageous one judge can stop everything that is going on.

not wore about the one injury or on one person with groups of injury and they come and stop it for the entire country. they did it with obama several times which was maddening for them and they would forum shop in texas. now democrats are going to forum shop in the ninth. and here is the problem. you can kwin in every other circuit but if you find a federal judge that will stop manage something and they implement a national injunction it stops everything. the courts are going to have for the good of the entire judicial system, courts have to figure out a way to remedy this. >> well, supreme court is supposed to be doing that when you have disputed cases. >> that is the problem. you won't have the 11th battling the ninth if a judge in the ninth freezes everything immediately. that is one of the problems. you don't have all of the different cases coming out of all of the different circumstances. >> swing vote could stay the

ninth ciuit'restraining order. i wouldn't get tooorked up with standing. i think we kind of like it when people can go to the courts, especially at a time like this, for relief. it happened with obama when his executive order were being challenged in texas. the state had standing because it was issuing driver's licenses. that was sort of flimsy but it was real. it was like, okay, let's let it be decided in court. i think we want this to be decided in court. these states have universities, they have students coming in, they need to have this decided. i would hate to see this thrown out on standing. >> and who are the potential people? the state -- it's flimsy all the way through the process. >> i admit that. >> they need to find a specific plaintiff and argue that specifically. >> isn't if they go to supreme court it is more likely than not to kick it back downstairs to the district, though? >> it's hard to say. right now because have you a very politicized court that is

4-4, it's more likely just to go 4-4. >> all arguments for redrafting. >> exactly. >> tim carney, that is the question. like you said last hour, this is what everybody is hoping happens. but the concern inside the white house is what happens if they redraft and then somebody goes forup shops and straight out to the ninth again. >> the standing point you have there points how to redraft it and a philosophical issue. when washington is claiming standing they are pointing to the people who are in washington and have a strong connection to the country. that is the current visa holders and that sort of thing. if you draft it so it doesn't include them, then a court would have to find standing for people who are outside of the country and do not have a visa and want to come here. there is plenty of precedent. the argument that a guy in iraq who doesn't have a visa isn't here doesn't have any legal right yet to come here. the idea that he has standings

baugh now he has blocked. that would be an absurd argument. the ninth circuit could find everything. everybody has standing -- >> last night, this is one of the most outrageous parts of this outrageous argument. they actually left open the argument that somebody in iran or somalia that wasn't a citizen that didn't have a green card, that just wanted to come to the united states, might be a potential client. the supreme court has ruled repeatedly there is no standing there. >> that is why more narrowly tailored rule would set that aside but it also plays perfectly into trump's argument that drives so much of the elite class crazy when he says america first, americans first. we are going to create an immigration policy that serves us, the ninth circuit. the left wants me to create an immigration policy that serves the rest of the world. that is not my job. i'm president of the united states. trump would love to have that

fight politically. >> mark halpern, you're hearing the same thing, are you not, about the redrafting of this executive order? >> yes. first blush, the conventional wisdom for the politics and substance the smartest thing to do would be to redraft the order but no doubt somewhere in the country including in the ninth circumstance, someone will bring a case against any revised order and america is back with the clock ticking and tying them up. they face a tough choice but i think there is no doubt they are going to be thinking can they redraft something that not only addresses the order that was issued by the appeals panel but can they redraft something that can build consensus that won't be seen as divisive and sloppy as the first order? >> that assumes that is what they want. they want to do something that would be unifying. >> the problem for them, walter, if they are claiming that the country is in eminent danger and

they must have an executive order in place, they can't sit back and play games because then the blame goes to the white house instead of the courts. >> you enaagree on that. >> this is being thought out on live television. >> 21 days into his presidency. >> just think. they are three and ten, 12, 5/6th of a year? great? >> have to pace yourself here. the back and forth battle between the white house and senator john mccain continues. over mccain calling a deadly raid in yemen a failure. in a series of tweets yesterday, the president wrote, in part, senator mccain should not be talking about the success or failure of a mission to the media. only emboldens the enemy. he has been losing so long, he doesn't now how to win any more. our hero ryan died on a wing mission according to general mattis, not a failure. mccain's press secretary responded in a statement, quote,

senator mccain will continue to execute his oversight duties as chairman of the senate armed services committee and support the brave men and women serving our nation in uniform. some senate republicans are also speaking out in favor of john mccain. >> well, john mccain is a hero and a united states senator who speaks his mind and somebody that we all listen to, particularly when it comes to national security matters. >> i don't agree with that. without assessment by the president. my recollection is john mccain was commenting about the military efficacy of the operation and didn't ultimately achieve its military objection. i don't think that in any way diminishes the bravery, the courage or, quite frankly, takes away from the tragic loss of life we saw in regards to that operation. it didn't achieve its military objective, its ultimate military objective but i don't know why

that is inxcompatible -- not every military operation is going to -- we are not guaranteed success or ultimate success in every endeavor we take on. the bad guys have guns too. >> meanwhile, vice president mike pence seemed to address the situation yesterday while visiting west point without mentioning senator mccain or the raid directly. >> know that we will always support you, not second-guess you. and we will never call your courageous service or your sacrifice a failure. >> this is another case the white house creating a problem where there didn't need to be one when sean spicer went two days ago in the white house briefing room saying it's a disservice to navy s.e.a.l. ryan owens to question the efficacy of the mission and to use him somehow as a shield for their argument. it was just unnecessary. you could say it's tragic, we lost one of the best, best people we had in this country. ryan owens. >> let us take donald trump at his word. >> right.

>> he opposed iraq. he said it was a stupid war. he was critical of it nonstop through the campaign. let us take him at his own word. by his standard, he is disrespecting the lives of 4500 fallen heroes. they cannot have it both ways. this is just a stupid fight where you have a two-vote majority in the united states senate. when push comes to shove, that is now 50/50 i guarantee you mccain and spicer are peeled off now. >> there are after-action reports on everything like that this occurs. wait until they read those reports before they start shooting their mouths off. >> tim carney, i'll throw it to you. all of these unforced errors. i could think of two and could make a list of five in this week where the white house clearly and quite frankly based on our own reporting is obsessing over things, obsessing over battles

that they don't need to fight and are stepping on their own headlines. they are obsessing, i know for a fact over the attacks on ivanka trump. instead of doing the right thing and rolling out ivanka trump and talking about what she wants to do in washington, with which are great things. she has put her family aside and she has moved to washington to try to create a platform for women. where is she on that? instead, they are obsessing about nordstrom and kellyanne conway is sucking up for them trying to shop her stuff. everybody is out of control because they are obsessing about these fights. same with the mccain issue. >> in a way that hurts them at the same time. >> you know that donald trump does not like to have any slight go without a punch-back in the face so sean spicer goes out there and feels he has 20 fight over little word and fied foo fooiting over the word ban when they were using that word and fighting over there was a failure. you know donald trump was upset

when nordstrom went after ivanka and said this is an attack on the president's policies. i thought a horrible idea and confirms our worries about the conflict of interests with trump's business and spicer is out there being the brawling guy who can't let a perceived slight go without a response. this makes donald trump the easiest president in the world to distract from anything he is doing. what hillary tried to do during the campaign. throw him a bar and he goes back at it. i think the semantic fights drag them down. the adversarial media loves fighting over words. their favorite thing to do is fight over word. and this fight will go on forever. >> very good point. >> now it's a great point. now, of course, you have more than just a back and forth fight. you have an ethics violation and what is going to be attached to that. >> made by sloppy obsessiveness. >> you watch. there is an ethics violation and say it goes to the white house. they ignore it. >> when it's clear. >> that people want to take him out of office eventually, they

will say, we will put that right there. one of bill clinton's by the way, articles of impeachment by a republican congress is for abusing his office. you hear about high crimes and misdemeanors. one of his articles of impeachment was for abusing his office. people going to do that will put that right there. walter, this eclipses an important phone call with a leader much china and japan. >> and what you do is you create a narrative. unfortunately, the narrative of this administration which plays into trump. you can't blame it on sean spicer. this is trump. the narrative is he is sort of a grandizing himself and helping himself and rich of corruption as he does things and does it with ivanka which she does not deserve. >> quite frankly, this hurt her brand.

if you care about these things and you're thinking about them, they literally did the opposite thing that they should have done if they were trying to protect that. >> looks like melania's lawsuit. you want the narrative to be we are meeting with the japanese prime minister because tpp was actually well thought through, that mission to move away from and we are going to make individual trade deals. >> we talked to china. a big problem with china but we talked through it and try to figure out how to -- >> under the conventional rules, joe. >> here is the bizarre thing, walter. if some ways, on the inside, they are playing by conventional rules. >> right. >> mattis is doing what mattis needs to do. tillerson is calling who tillerson needs to call. we saw yesterday reports of what i heard them talking about four or five weeks ago that they were going to move towards a middle east peace from the outside/in that they were going to -- >> smart move. >> it is.

>> one they haven't got much publicity on. >> guess what. they are doing it quietly and doing it with saudi arabia and doing it with egypt and doing it with the uae and doing it with jordan. he talked with king of jordan. they are all quietly working behind the scenes and believe it or not we would never know this. but they actually are advancing forward on a lot of foreign policy initiatives that may end up paying off in a big way. all we hear about is because of them, it's their fault, the nasty phone call with the prime minister of australia. the nasty phone call with merkel. >> large narrative they have to get out of which is the russia thing with michael flynn and what he did and him walking back his comments, denial that he had done it. you're going to always be looking at this narrative of are they playing it for russia? >> absolutely. >> here is another example. something that most people missed. there was a readout on --

>> putin. >> on the putin call, where trump said -- and, by the way, this is something for us to all kind of think about. donald trump crazy. but in some cases, crazy like a fox. he's on the phone with putin and putin is talking about an arms treaty. he goes, wait, what is that? i don't know what that is. what is, that guys? his staff tells him. he goes, i don't like that. no, no. another thing i don't like. he pushed back on the arms treaty and so people go he is so dumb, he didn't know there was an arms -- maggie said he was talking about it in detail four weeks earlier and talking about their strategic plans. like the guy knew. he was sitting there playing putin like basically being passive/aggressive, i guess. but, again, it's -- >> it doesn't work with the narrative that national security

adviser was playing things behind the scenes before they came in. >> exactly. what people should be talking about today along with china and japan is the fact that he pushed back on putin and said, no, we are not going to agree. >> that is the nut of his problem. the big story today is china. >> right. >> and we are talking about his tweeting about john mccain because we have a president for whom politics is personal and the personal is political. >> by the way, on the ninth circuit, mika, not only is there not a long game here but not an intermediate game. if he had said nothing about the ninth circuit decision, nothing. if he stayed back and been quiet let the ninth circuit do what we all knew. you were talking about one of your friends on the ninth circuit. basically, a communist. >> venezuela. >> exactly. if he had stayed out of the way and let them overreach. then all of a sudden attention on the ninth circuit's

overreach. >> some of these stories go away. the shiny objects of sean spicer and kellyanne conway. it's the communications message. it's unbelievably like kindergarten here. ivanka thing that could have been done with tuesday. ivanka trump has moved to washington and put her business interests aside. she is resettling her family in washington and creating a platform for women. >> and probably can take care of herself. >> they probably have hurt her line of clothing even more. you will see more businesses y saying no thank you. >> the key on the nordstrom thing is not what kellyanne conway said. that 'eye catching but when sean spicer didn't let it go away with he is a proud dad defending his daughter but said this is an attack on his policies. i really think this sends a really upsetting message. anybody, if you're a tenant in trump tower, a businessman who

has a branding deal overseas all of those people say it's political if you cut ties if you don't have your conference at his hotel. >> they are all sucking up so badly. >> corruption formula is the perfect line. >> it is a corrupting formula. >> all around the world all of his hotels you worry are they taking it as a slight if somebody cuts off a business deal with them and if you cut it off with political reasons, political reasons are economical reasons when you have an elite brand. the wealthy elites in cities they don't like the trumps. it's a business decision and have every right to do that. are you going to sick sean spicer on everybody who doesn't do as much business with the trumps as donald trump wants them to? >> when is there a whiff of corruption it's hard to shake that smell as it is now. >> how does it affect what perhaps might be the most

important thing in the president's mind, the trump brand? >> well. >> the trump brand. >> would be better off if they all stopped sucking up. walter isaacson, thank you. >> again, a lot of policy being done behind the scenes which they never get out. >> you're right. all right. still ahead, tom price is now the latest trump cabinet nominee to survive a contentious confirmation process. nine down and eight more to go. plus, why is senate minority leader chuck schumer downplaying neil gorsuch's comments -- i'm really tired. >> they are misplaying this so far. they are embarrassing themselves. the dnc, the statement they put out last night was really, really disappointing. >> you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪

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characterized them talking about the tweets and saying -- that is not what the judge said. the judge was very clear he was not commenting on any specific matter. right? and then he was asked about his general philosophy. so you can't then take that and equate it back to the specific. he literally went out of his way to say i'm not commenting on a specific instance. >> judge gorsuch, in our conversation, was talking about donald trump's attacks on the judiciary. it's a remark that has been made to at least three of my colleagues in other meetings. so for this to be a factual question is pretty bizarre. >> chuck schumer doesn't want the comments to overshadow the man who might one day wear the robe. the senate minority leader side spicer's defense made the

judge's comments weak comments even weaker. the dnc said in a statement while donald trump's morning tweets show steve bannon may not have included him on the ruse this is a meaningless white house orchestrated attempt to help judge gorsuch pretend he won't be a rubber stamp for the trump administration. as senator blumenthal made clear gorsuch's suspicious private cricism is not nrly enough to prove he'll fulfill his duty on a check on the concerning and unconstitutional behavior of the president. are you guys following all of this? you are, steve, right? joining from capitol hill is white house for the associated press julie pace and here on set msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki. bad politics getting even worse? how would you characterize this? >> there was a poll. do you want them to try to work together or do you want them to fight everything, every piece of

lec legislation and every piece of nominee? they said fight everything. when i see chuck schumer talking about this this is a party on capitol hill hearing that message and deciding -- i mean, there is no -- you can read between the lines here from the democratic leadership no intent to have any support for gorsuch and probably no support to even skip the filibuster on this one. they do have some members from red state democrats to worry about but from the leadership on down they don't want to give him an inch. >> what is so disheartening is that you had gorsuch do something pretty storied. no way trump called him in why did you attack me and say you heard disheartened? i was so hopeful when he said that. one of though moments where people stood up and spoke out against interest and, yet -- >> i do think what is interesting what we are seeing here is the decision the

leadership the party has made. i keep my eye on, too, ten democrats in the senate up for re-election next year from states that donald trump won. manchin is the obvious one in west virginia but nine others. we have mixed signals from some of them exactly how they are going to handle this nomination. i still wonder if what gorsuch did here will have an effect on them. from the leadership down no intent to kroocooperate on this. >> you have to think richard blumenthal went rogue and doesn't hold water because ben sasse, the republican, said the same thing on our show that he heard the same comment from gorsuch as well and former ayotte can confirm that too." i picked up one significant element of this yesterday which might be driving part of this is that it was pointed out to me yesterday by a democratic united states senator that the potential supreme court justice said this in a meeting in the office of democratic senator from connecticut, judge merrick

garland never received a single meeting with a republican senator. >> that's a fair argument to make. but don't question a man's integrity when he has just done something that shows -- >> correct, correct. or to try a conspiracy about it. >> everybody is acting badly here. you're right, willie, the white house acting badly saying that blumenthal was making this up. going back to the vietnam controversy, like, petulant 3-year-old. everybody is a back actor in this. a horrible decision from the ninth circuit following up an even worse executive order. no good guys here. julie pace, what is the white house's strategy moving forward here on gorsuch? >> i don't know what their strategy moving forward is going to be but it certainly seems

like their strategy has been to try to discredit all of these senators coming out saying something that actually is pretty helpful to what their ultimate goal is which is to try to get gorsuch confirmed. if you look at the statement that the dnc and schumer put out i think it underscores this bind that democrats are in. they do have a a lot of people in the party who want to block trump at every turn. at the same time, if you have gorsuch up on the hill, you know, he is someone with a conservative record but a pretty mainstream record as a judge, and now he's coming out saying, look. yes, i disagree with attacks on the independence of the judiciary. whether they were related to the specific tweets or not, standing up for that general principle is something that i think moderate democrats, the people up in 2018, they are going to want to hear that and it's going to make it harder for them to vote against them. the white house would probably be in their interest to take a step back and let democrats fight this out amongst themselves but certainly gorsuch

seem to have done himself favors in the mind of the democrats that the white house need to confirm their supreme court nominee. >> i want to ask you about the piece you posted a few hours ago about kellyanne conway and donald trump. fascinating tidbits in here. the highlights we talked about in the last hour to me donald trump was not happy with sean spicer for going out and talking in the way he did about kellyanne conway. in fact, donald trump liked what kellyanne conway said yesterday morning when she sort of plugged ivanka trump's clothing line. >> right. in some ways it's not surprising given what the president, himself, said about ivanka and the situation with nordstrom. my understanding the president did not like the use of the word counseled and made it feel like kellyanne was in some sort of trouble. my understanding she is not in in trouble in the eyes of the one person that matters and that is the president. he matters not just for her sake of her standing in the west wing but he is the only one who can punish her for an ethics

violation. we saw chaffetz recommend that the committee take this issue up but they are not an enforcement agency. they can only advise federal employees, advise the white house on what they feel she did. at the end of the day it's up to the president to punish her and as long as he is going to stand by her, i don't think you're going to see her take the fall for the comments that she made yesterday. >> is there no reason to believe that donald trump, if it's only his decision, it is, that julie points out, that he would punish kellyanne conway because of ivanka is involved. >> it's obvious what she did is wrong and total unethical violation. a lurch on top of it. bad form. >> as julie is just saying when it ultimately comes down to the president, the president let us know when it comes to his own ethics his view is, look. no statute that governs there, so therefore, no conflict. he has shown less concern about this issue of the ethical

conflicts than anyone we have ever seen as president. it's his decision what to do with kellyanne conway and hard to believe what how he acted and what he said so far that is going to draw a line here. >> it goes on the list of alternative realities. julie and steve, thank you both. still ahead on "morning joe." when the president plays golf, it's okay, but he should play with people you understand. people that he wants to make deals with. congress people and people from other countries. not just his friends. >> that was donald trump weighing in on tn president obama's golf game a year ago. and it seems the new president is actually taking his own advice. >> actually, mike barnicle, a lot of people's criticism of barack obama. if you want to golf, it's great but can you take some people out that actually will -- do you have to spend that much time on the golf course? take some people out there that will help the country and actually he's taking out the -- >> i think he played golf only one time with john boehner.

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39 past the hour. president trump is set to welcome japanese prime minister shinzo abe at the wte house today an expected to talk trade and other economic issues between the long time ally after the president signed an executive order pulling the u.s. out of tpp. joining us is university professional and director of the sustainable development at columbia university, economist dr. jeffrey sachs.

i sent the copy of your book you gave me to my daughter. >> dr. sachs, we have a swirl ou all of these these pr nightmares in the white house. but one happening behind the radar the meeting with the president and the prime minister of japan. the president and he will be in florida tomorrow. but also very important call with china last night that went very well by all accounts. what does it mean? >> i hope it means we are getting back to a little bit of normal because there was this idea that the u.s. was going to go to trade war or conflict with china and it unsettled everybody. yesterday, donald trump apparently said, no, we subscribe to the one china policy and we want good relations. so a battle going on clearly in the white house and real protectionists and people say we need conflict basically one kind

or another. others are saying come on the world economy depends on normal relations. today, "the wall street journal" lead editorial is trade punishment for trump voters saying that the president's protectionism is going to threaten the states that voted him in office. >> the thing he is getting the airlines ceos and automakers are coming in, the high tech, the top silicon valley people are coming in, union people are coming in. other than the union people, everybody else that he is hearing from and all of these these meetings that supposed go to as well so many are talking about quietly the importance of trade. and that has an impact over time. >> it does seem the trip that general mattis perhaps did to japan and south korea which laid some of the groundwork for prime minister abe come here normallized that. i'm sure you didn't get mattis going to the japanese and saying we are starting a trade war with

china because that would destabilize the whole of asia as well. the balance between japan and china is also fragile and donald trump, for a long time, barked the japanese for their unfair trade practices towards the united states and interesting to see how that perna relationship develops on the golf course. >> i think the big problem is that trump basically said to the midwest, these workers that voted him in by a small margin, that i'm going to be tough on the rest of the world. that is what is going to make you better off. and it just doesn't have mileage. so he went off on something that can't work. there aren't so many jobs to return. the jobs that have lost have been lost to robots and automation and not to offshoring. he went off on a message that is economically inaccurate and break a lot of the things that make the world economy work. he doesn't have the magic in the sleeve to somehow make china or mexico or others pay for what we

really need inside. that is the fallacy of what happened. >> inside the white house not from donald trump we have heard his rhetoric but where do you think the people around him, an economic group want to take this economy? >> well, some like peter navaroe who is insider on trade and believes a trade war is the way to make america great again. there are others who believe that tax cuts are going to do it, but then we are are about to see next month how do you add it up? how do you really balance a budget that is left field out of control and give more tax cuts? i don't think they have a philosophy, what every businessman i talk to says is that trump has an idea which is fine, get americans back to work, but he doesn't have a strategy. trade war was one strategy and tax cuts is another strategy but you got to make these things add

up. >> the strategy and the question is how can he get enough investment to add up. for instance, japan is going to invest in more american businesses. he is pushing all of these other people. but that is great. on a symbolic level and great for those that are individually going to be keeping their jobs, but can you do that enough? >> no. it's exactly the right point, because when ford said, okay, we will stay in the u.s., it was $700 million for 700 jobs. you add it up that is not the way we will respond for 150 million workers. what he also doesn't get, which is the real message, manufacturing now, which is strong in the united states, only employees 8% of the workers and that is because it's all automated and it's going to become more and more automated. so we will be a society where

people work in services. manufacturing can be strong but not the source of massive imple employment into the fut and we need to take that into account and they don't have that in mind. they have in mind the u.s. of the 1970s that we are going to be a manufacturing base with strong work force. but manufacturing is robotics, it's artificial intelligence and smart systems. it's not workers any more. there are very few and we are down to 8% and it's going to keep going down for a good reason. good technology. >> the book is "building the new american economy." dr. jeffrey sachs, thank you very much. up next, betsy devos to become the education secretary. when we come back, we are going to tell you about one school in africa. she found a way to succeed in the most difficult conditions and how it might be able to inspire reform here in the united states. we are back after this.

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a college students who immigrated from somalia who later applied and received to bs tree lighting ceremony in oregon. >> that was candidate donald trump back in august warningover the potential security risk imposed by college students from parts of the world prone to terror. our next guest, jonathan star says the claims missed the mark. he gave up his hedge fund career to start a school in somalia helping dozens of students in top universities in america. he writes about the extraordinary story of an american school in the world's number one failed state and telling us off air the travel ban would impact the very people

in this school. tell us about how this school was able to thrive, what made it able to thrive in such a difficult place. >> first of all, thank you for having me. so, when i moved to somalland in 2005, i came from a finance background. i got there, brought over a bunch of foreign teachers and we convinced these kids there was a way for them to have a future, to be the future leaders of their country. because they saw that and they put in this incredible effort, they came in as ninth graders and then four years later, the whole country and everyone was shocked when they got into oprahland and m.i.t. they are graduating this year from those schools and their goal is to go back and build their country and create jobs and create, educate the population. >> let's back up.

from your hedge fund job to th, what inspired you to make this incredible change in your life and career? >> i have nothing against the hedge fund world, a lot of our supporters are hedge fund people. i looked and this was the best chance to do something that would be really special. really, all the pieces were aligned. i have an uncle who is a somali uncle. i had money, i could donate the first big chunk to get everything going and i could move there. i did. i lived at the school and was headmaster of the school until not that long ago. i go back often and make sure everything is going the direction it should. this was a chance to do something that i thought would really be impactful. >> the question with projects like this is how scaleable is it? could this be done throughout africa, through all other developing countries or a one off project?

>> okay, so, it's not starbucks. you can't decide you are going to take what we did and make 500 of them across the country. what you can do -- the reason is, because if you can get 40 kids into american schools with scholarships, they are poor. you cannot get 400 or 4,000, it's not possible, doesn't matter how good you do. the concept, we convinced kids it's worth it to invest in their future. that is scaleable anywhere in the world, in american schools. >> we put more money into each kid. >> what is the secret sauce here? what did you do that no one else was able to do and is any of that sauce that can be applied here in the united states? >> really, people say is there a secret sauce? people look for a curriculum. it's not about that.

it's convincing you it's worth it when you get up every day to make the effort and investment in your future. our kids start their day at 7:00 a.m. study hall ends at 9:30. i'm not saying it's a slave driving place. they are not just memorizing. they do tremendous amounts of community service, they do sports, they do extracurriculars. they are teaching classes to kids from the lal village. we have an eighth grader teaching kids who are older than they are. we have to reject them. there are over 100 kids that come every day to get classes from our students. what we did is convinced them it's worth it. if we can do that in our society, if you walk into the school and see success, our early students, convincing them was the hard part. now you get a student who comes to our school and they know. they may not have met the kid

graduating from m.i.t., but they know who he was and they want to be like him. the book is, "it takes a school." thank you. still ahead, the court battle over the president's immigration ban. he needs to finds someone to argue the case. "morning joe" is back in a moment. with every click...call...punch... and paycheck... you've earned your medicare. it was a deal that was made long ago, and aarp believes it should be honored. thankfully, president trump does too. "i am going to protect and save your social security and your medicare. you made a deal a long time ago." now, it's congress' turn. tell them to protect medicare. ( ♪ ) ♪ they tell me i'm wrong ♪ ♪ to want to stand alongside my, my love ♪

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and star to the alternative facts of life, kellyanne conway was on fox and friends this morning. she complained about nordstrom dropping ivanka's clothing line, but gave a rare and illegal product plug. >> people can see through that. go buy ivanka's stuff. i hate shopping, i'm going to go get some myself. it's a wonderful line. i'm going to give a free commercial here. go buy it. find it online. >> she's going to have a hell of a post white house career on qvc. >> sooner, rather than later. >> that would be happening now, i would think. run away beer truck. anyone want to buy the mika scarf? that's not inappropriate is it? >> it's available now. >> go get one. good morning, everyone. >> you have worn it. it's really good. >> exactly. exactly. it's friday, february --

>> holy, moly. can you believe that. that was surreal. >> we have so many developing stories to try to wade through this morning. with us on set, co-author of "game change," mark halperin. >> he's been talking to attorneys. >> he has? >> only to the left of the ninth circuit. >> we also have washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay and in washington, editor from "the washington examiner" and visiting fellow, tim carney back with us. good to have you on board. let's get to the heart of the morning. late yesterday, another court battle brewing after a federal appeals court unanimously refused to reimpose the president's order, halting visitors and immigrants from seven countries. the ninth district court of appeals decided the order was

unlikely to survive legal challenges. democratic governor. jay insly of washington, a state challenging the ban on msnbc last night. >> the president lost on numerous ways for lack of evidence. he did not present evidence this is a security threat to the united states and could be remedied by this effort. he did not provide evidence this did not discriminate against a muslim faith. it was clear from the evidence, this does discriminate. it sends muslims to the back of the bus. >> the president of the united states responded shortly after the decision, writing in all cap letters on twitter, see you in court. the security of our nation is at stake. he had this to say to nbc news moments later. >> we'll see them in court. it's a political decision. we are going to see them in court, and i look forward to that. >> you believe the judge --

>> we have a situation where the security of our country is at stake. it's a very, very serious situation. we look forward, as i said, to seeing them in court. >> do you think this is undercut the early days of your presidency? this is such a core issue? >> this is just a decision that came down. we'll win the case. >> the president said he plans to select a solicitor general who would argue the case at the supreme court by next week. there you go. >> let's get context on this. the executive editor of "law fair" writes this. let's deal with the moral throat clearing of opinion first. they dream of becoming judges to write opinions like this. the phrase about how the president is not above the law is inevitable. it's exciting, fun to read. it's a reminder, we live in interesting and dangerous times. it's not what it turns on. it's about two big questions,

one the panel mentioned. the first question is how broad the president's authority is from the relevant seven countries under a statute that gives sweeping power to do this. when the president finds the entry of aliens or class of aliens into the united states is detrimental to the interest of the united states he made by proclamation and for such period deemed necessary, suspend the entry of aliens or class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants. >> that's the statute that the president relied on. that's the statute that gives the president broad, overwhelming power in this process. so, that's what the court will look at to see if the president went beyond the four corners of that law. >> right. >> it doesn't mention green card holders. >> go ahead. >> he goes on. the panel did not bother, even to cite is statute for the

executive order. that's a big omission over 29 pages. >> it was remarkable. i saw a lot of legal commentary last night saying the same thing, that not only did the ninth not talk about the statute that gives the president power. this is what you examine to see if he's gone beyond the boundaries. that would be like the court taking a free speech case and not talking about the first amendment. it was propostrouus. when you see chris matthews and people on the left and the right, here is somebody saying that -- i mean, it's a good example. you have a, you know, our law professors told us bad facts make bad law. horrific facts, coupled with horrific politics makes for horrific law. that's exactly what happened here. a couple things quickly. they ignored the ruling law.

they, just as a matter of course gave the state of washington standing. there's no specific person with a specific injury that is specifically going to be addressed by this action, which, usually, is how you get standing. the ninth decided not to last night. also, you talked about green card holders, they radically extended the rights beyond your green card holders and did something the supreme court has never done and extended it to potential claims for possible due process rights even for illegal immigrants. with this sort of language, i tweeted last night, i would have loved to seen judge justice scalia's response to this. he would have chopped it up in a million pieces. by the way, while i'm saying this, remember, i'm deeply

offended by this executive order. i have done nothing but vis rate this executive order for three weeks. it was a nightmare, the way it was set up. >> the rollout. >> this decision is laughable. this is, for me, the most disturbing part of the entire case. by the way, at the end, this isn't going to matter. i think the white house is going to fix it up, briefly fix it up. they could do a couple quick changes and take care of the problems. the ninth said the government has pointed to no evidence that any alien from any of the countries named in the order perpetrated a terrorist attack in the united states. as if it is the executive branches job to actually get the intel community in and say these are all the things that are going to happen. no, in fact, barack obama worked with a bipartisan congress to come up with these seven

countries, not because there was specific attacks but because they saw deteriorating security situation that they wanted to remedy. they wanted to prevent attacks. that's the entire purpose of that. anyway, so, this will be overturned, but i think, let's bring in via skype, professor at george washington university, jonath jonathan turley. if anyone at the white house has any sense, they will take a couple days, use the inner agency process and narrowly draft this so this discussion quickly becomes mute. >> i think it was poorly drafted, the outset, it was a horrible rollout. i think there's almost uniform view of that on both sides of this. but, i agree, this is a rather curious opinion. in the art world, they call it

impressionistic. you know, the court takes these very broad views of not just the law, but the facts. administration has said that one of the reasons these countries are on the list is they don't have reliable ways of confirming information for entry, not simply they produced actual terrorists, but their records, their process, procedures are not trusted. you can disagree with that. that's an argument that the administration made and simply dismissed. the court dismissed the fact that green card holders were exempted and didn't trust that exemption is permanent or done correctly. there's a lot to question about the opinion. >> in that case, that's another thing that stood out. you had the chairman of the department of homeland security testify that green card holders were, in fact, exempt.

yet, the court, as you said, they took the broadest, sometimes inaccurate, but the broadest view of all the facts thrown out and they just cherly picked them. i thought it was fascinating they said, well, you can xgo bak and see where he talked about a muslim ban. well, later in the campaign, he started specifically saying, it's not a muslim ban and we are going to go to extreme vetting. again, everybody can debate donald trump and his psychology and why he did that, but you and i both know that a court cannot go back to a previous statement, drag it in and use that as the intent of an order. also, aren't you shocked? why didn't they use the underlying statute that actually gives presidents the power to do this? >> that was particularly strange. it's like the joke of helping a guy search for a missing ring

under a lamp, are you sure you lost it here? no, fwu light is better here. it is something that wasn't exactly what was before it. there were compelling arguments made on both sides, but it largely ignored the arguments on one side. i think that's what's going to prompt the administration, likely to go to the supreme court, even though it's just assured. >> jonathan, thank you very much. >> there's a balancing act here, right? between the injuries people are going to sustain or potentially sustain. again, we have no specific plaintiffs here, that's problematic, versus basically the government's power to protect its people. >> that's right. >> you read the opinion, 29 pages of it, again, there is no balance. it's all weighted, not just specific harm and injury, but potential due process claims. it was, again, it was

extraordinarily unbalanced and makes for very bad law. >> no, i have to agree with that. i was very surprised by it. you know, they put everything they had on due process. when they got to the religious discrimination, they stated both sides and said the record is really not here to decide this question. i didn't think it was a very compelling opinion. it doesn't really give a good compelling basis to go forward with on the other side. now, having said that, taking a tro appeal to the supreme court is, itself, a precarious measure. i don't think the administration views it as having a choice. >> jonathan, thank you very much. stil ahead, snowstorms followed by more snowstorms. no relief for the northeast. a live report from boston and an update from bill karins.

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so, president trump nominated -- [ booing ] >> i have a sense there of where we are going. when kellyanne conway said what she said about buying that particular product. that was wrong, wrong, wrong, i called it auto. they need to investigate. it should never happen again and there should be accountability there, absolutely. >> do your job was t chant,f you couldn't make it out. >> i think they were going to

o everything. he said he was going to bring christmas to february and they booed. >> he was given a hard time in his hometown state in utah. >> rough crowd. >> including pressuring looking into kellyanne conway. the committee looked into whether she violated ethics law. >> the answer would be yes. >> it picked up controversy while defending first daughter ivanka trump's product, which nordstrom decided to stop carrying. despite a drop in online sales in january alone, the white house claimed the decision was political. conway made this plea on fox news. >> don't do it. don't do it. >> go buy ivanka's stuff. i hate shopping, i'm going to get some myself. it's a wonderful line. i'm going to give a free commercial here. go buy it everybody, you can

find it online. >> she was accused of running afoul the law. >> it's a wonderful line, she says, with the white house seal behind her. you can't do that. >> it's the shield. >> by the way -- by the way, ivanka can speak for herself. we all know ivanka. right? she can speak for herself. they need to stop. they are not doing her any favors, they need to stop. >> the law we were talking about prohibits an employee from making the endorsement of a product or enterprise. the website for the office of government ethics crashed in the hours following the comments. chaffetz and elijah cummings, in a rare moment of agreement asked for the office to review conway's statements and respond promptly for disciplinary action. it goes to the executive branch, which said conway had been, quote, counseled. conway commented on that and the

letter from congress. >> how were you counseled? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> they say it's a potentially serious violation of the government ethics code. >> we read that letter and we are reviewing it internally. i'm happy i spent a lot of time with the president of the united states this afternoon and this he supports me 100%. we spoke about matters and he supports me 100%. all i can say is at some point in your life, you ought to have a boss who treated me the way the president of the united states treated me today. >> that was kellyanne conway. donald trump didn't like the word council and didn't think sean spicer should have used that word. >> he said spicer went too far in press reporting. i confirm he's reporting she's fine.

>> he used kellyanne to defend his daughter. >> he really likes the way kellyanne goes on television and fights for him. he likes it when she fights for his daughter as well. inside the democratic party. we'll hear from a southern democrat with ideas about how his party can win back the part of the country where he's from. "morning joe" is back after this. did you know 90% of couples disagree on

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after yesterday's snowstorms, no relief for parts of the northeast. more school cancellations, more flights delayed or scrubbed. for more, let's bring in meteorologist bill karins. >> he could use a good scrubbing. >> yes. now, let's talk about the next stormfter the image of the scrubbing. the storm we got was a big snow producer, the winds weren't too bad. 13 places reported blizzard conditions and met the criteria in cape cod. a few spots in rhode island did. three hours of winds gusting 35 miles per hour, visibility a quarter mile or less.

that's the definition. again, it was a big storm. snowfall total, central park, 9.5, connecticut was the bulls eye. bost boston around 10. it's freezing cold out there. let's go to cal perry in downtown boston. did they have school today? >> reporter: no, no school today. i'm suspicious about this no school thing. the lombardi trophy is in town. i'm not convinced the kids were going to school anyway. the streets are clear. public transportation was a mess. the subway line was a disaster. thopted to get it right this year and they did. it was the speed of the storm, four inches in an hour on the streets. they kept the plows going until the snow stopped. they were able to get the streets clear this morning. with school out, there is no rush hour. a lot of people taking their time. >> it looks like it shouldn't be

a snow day, considering monday may be another one. let's talk about the temperatures. thank you so much, cal. it's negative three where cal is standing in boston. it's very cool. the winds die off during the day today. that's the good part. then we get a clipper storm throughout the night today and tomorrow. 1-3 inches in new england before a bigger storm sunday into monday. the other story is the rest of the country is ridiculously warm. we are at 70s today in oklahoma city and san antonio. look at saturday. saturday, it gets ten degrees warmer. we could be 85 degrees in the middle of february in oklahoma city. st. louis almost hit 70. d.c. back up to 66. this is an incredible seesaw. new england will stay cold, then we get another storm in here. this could be late developing, nor'easter, blizzard-type storm for eastern new england. it won't hit areas from new york

southward. another thing you may hear about is what's going on in california with the heavy rains. the second talle dam in our country, the spillway has given out in a large section. they are releasing water at a fast rate. they had to slow it down. now the lake itself is filling up quickly. they have to go to an emergency spillway, which is a mud mountainside to the left there. they have huge problems right now with one of the countries biggest reservoirs in california because of the heavy rain they have been dealing with this winter. time square in new york city doesn't look like a snowstorm just hit. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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this week, homeland security secretary, john kelly took responsibility for the chaotic rollout of trump's immigration ban. he should have known to delay it. kelly released a statement, i'm

not sure he really wrote it. for the record, the immigration ban chaos is my fault, sad. i am piers nailly writing this statement because believe me, i scred upigly. i am a loser. i choked toad. i'm luckily plump isn't deporting me to china. sincerely secretary what's his name. >> that doesn't sound like him at all. he doesn't know his name? >> msnbc political analyst and aide to the george w. bush white house, alease jordan. on capitol hill, white house correspondent, halle jackson. halle, we'll start with you. you unexpectedly caught up with the president after the ruling of the travel ban. tell us what that was like. >> reporter: you know, president trump is unpredictable and does unexpected things at times. a small group of reporters headed up into the west wing

where reporters are allowed to go. this is almost right after the ruling came down. we were looking for information from the press folks about a statement and would there be more? president trump walked out of the door that leads to the ovl office and hovered, is a fair word to say. he stopped, looked down the hallway at the assembled reporters. we began asking him questions about the court ruling. he immediately called it a political decision. he promised to continue to fight on. he was pressed about whether it means taking it to the supreme court. we are going to find out more today from the justice department. it is clear the president believes he will win on the merits. he mentioned the boston ruling, we are going to fight it and win, i'm confident. i said how did you find out about the ruling, who briefed you? he found out the way everybody else did, by watching it on the news. that's how he discovered it. at that point, it was so soon

after the ruling, he had not had a chance to meet with his brand-new attorney jeff sessions who has a lot on his plate. he was going out to dinner with secretary of state. we know he was dining with sheldon adelson after the visit with benjamin netanyahu. he's going to meet with shinzo abe at 1:00 today. this is his second presidential press conference after ten days or so ago. that was before the stories about the lawsuit and his phone call with russian president vladimir putin and controversies that came up including his attitude toward the judiciary. i'm guessing whoever gets the questions will press the president on that. >> thank you very much. >> let's do something crazy. let's avoid all the controversies that are swirling around which we talked about. let's talk policy, things that

will affect america, things that will affect american jobs and national security. a lot of things happening over the past couple days. the call to china last night, a positive thing. news that they are -- news made public now that they are working other arab countries to do an outside and approach to the middle east piece. a pushback to vladimir putin on missile treaty, and, of course, golfing with the prime minister of japan. >> he has a lot swirling. aside from foreign policy, you have the supreme court justice process. that's going to be huge. that's such a big win for conservatives who supported donald trump and someone like me who didn't support donald trump, but thinks this is a first class nominee. you have that legacy coming up. >> right. >> then you have the obamacare repeal, which i think is going to be the next huge challenge of this presidency, aside from the

swirl of day-to-day news, it's going to come down with can republicans come up with a decent alternative. >> i think, while you bring up a great point to keep a look at the big picture, i think what's happening in the day-to-day operations of the white house, the behavior of the staff. i say behavior because we have issues over the past 24 hours. it undermines the big picture. >> here is what i think that comes down to, it's command climate. it's not having a chief of staff who is the absolute final stop and authority for the entire staff. you know, looking back at the bush white house, andy card was so revered by the entire staff. he really was the final stop. he enforced such a strict control on leaks. just the dignity of the office he upheld and president bush trusted him so much. josh fulton, same thing, an incredible manager and policy expert. >> right. >> right now, the position that

donald trump has put reince priebus is in a very uncomfortable position. >> there are four, five, six people swirling around. and, you know, in the words of presidential bobby bowden. if you have two quarterbacks, you ain't got no quarterback. you either have a leade or you don't have a leader. you either have somebody that gets all the information and takes it to the president or you have a dysfunctional process, which may be why we have what we have going on here. policy, big policy goals are being pursued and actually, much likely are going to land. but, the day-to-day is this chaotic swirl. >> you also have a staff that is chasing a totally unconventional president and things he might say that they hadn't talked about before. one in the meeting with airline executives saying you all are going to be very happy soon. we are going to come up with a

tax plan in two to three weeks. you could see the gears turning. the other was joe manchin coming out of a meeting of moderate democrats saying the president would be willing to look at the solution on immigration, a pathway to citizenship and other things president trump obviously has been against or against on the campaign trail. the larger point is trump can say something offhand. he doesn't think there's a consequence and a staff has to clean up, chase and clarify. >> by the way, this is donald trump doing what donald trump has always done, which is throwing things at the wall. he goes in, he throws everything at the wall. he sees what sticks. he takes a little here. he takes a little there. there are a lot of people that saw the read outfrom vladimir putin that said, oh, my god,

he's so ignorant he doesn't know about the treaty. he does. again, he's throwing stuff against the wall but we are not going to be for that because that's what obama did. there is madness there. is there a method to that madness? we are going to turn around and see there is. >> the nature of media and the partisanship in washington, anyone who got elected president, i don't care if it's mitch daniel, you are going to have chaos, confusion and scrambling. donald trump magnifies that 1,000 times. can they move forward day-to-day? you have cabinet members, i wouldn't say freaking out, but concerne staff in the white house concerned about what's going on. willie brought up the tax. are they doing tax reform first or health care? you ask different people, you get different answers. supreme court confirmation would be an accomplishment. the stuff he's done is dizzying

and some has real impact. he's got to govern with the legislative branch and the chaos is not helping. >> the stuff he's done seems more like bannon and other people and that's what's trickling out from people reporting from the inside. >> i have yet to see evidence, whatsoever other than the quinn pack poll having him at 36, he's now at 42. i have yet to see evidence that the chaos caused us as much concern as it caused us every day put a dent in his polls. gallop has disapproval as well. he's between 42, 43, 44, 45. then you look at the automated polls, the computerized polls, they are higher. nobody has to admit to a human being they support what donald trump is doing? >> i think your point about the chief of staff is good. as willie mentioned, the white house is pushing back reports

that president trump is open to considering the gang of eight immigration bill. senator joe manchin was among a group of bipartisan senators that met at the white house yesterday. after the meetings, they told nbc news the president is open to reviewing the piece of legislation. >> you have to respect this. he says -- >> donald trump said that? >> i'm saying the bill. we were trying to explain the bill. he said i know what amnesty is, i'm totally opposed to it. i said this is a 10-13 pathway. you have to play by the rules. he said i want to see it. i know what amnesty is. i said sir, i don't think you are going to find this amnesty at all. he is open to reviewing the piece of legislation. he said you have to start working on it again. i said absolutely we will. that was encouraging. >> the gang of eight was the bipartisan group of senators who

introduced an immigration reform bill back in 2013. the legislation provided a path to citizenship for many of the 11 million people living in the united statesllegally. the bill passed in the senate, but not in the house. >> the second this news came out, you know what happened? the phone calls started from capitol hill to the white house. so, they had to -- at least publicly push back on it. >> sean spicer pushed back on manchin's characterization as a result of what joe says. according to nbc news, spicer also said the president told the senators he would be willing to listen if they worked toward a solution. yesterday afternoon, senator manchin was asked about his earlier comments. >> did donald trump tell you he's open to reviewing the gang of eight bill? >> i think -- we were all pleasantly surprised, i think. he's very inquisitive.

he basically seemed interested in knowing more about that bill and people getting together and breaking it down. >> did he say he thought it sounded like amnesty? >> he didn't comment on that, as i recall, no. >> all right. >> i think he'd sign the gang of eight bill if it's a legal path, not citizenship. >> again, this is not only how he negotiates, this is how a lot of people negotiate. oh, yeah, i love that idea. no. fdr was famous for doing that. i'm not comparing donald trump to fdr, but one of the smartest people in washington, d.c., that we all know and respect walked away from the white house going he has people playing other people off each other, just like fdr did. so, he goes to manchin, i like this idea. this sounds like a great idea. comes back to the white house, they pound it. keep doing your bill.

>> maybe the last person in the room is the most important person. that's why bannon was on the cover of "time" magazine. >> no, it's donald trump. as we said before, throwing everything at the wall. >> he can be reasoned with. >> within the white house is there a plan they agree on and they are all working for the same aim? that's the question. it's all over the place. >> you have two factions in the white house. you have bannon and miller on one side and you have -- >> i think you have more tn two. >> you have -- y have i'll just say without naming names -- >> at least three. >> you have another side that actually wants a softer position on immigration for the dreamers. and, again, a pathway, not to citizenship but to legalized status. so, you do have those two battling each other all the time. we'll see who wins that. >> without naming names, are

th they members of his family? >> what did joe manchin say? >> he's curious. >> curious. >> it's down the middle. we'll see who wins that battle. >> he's not ideological. >> he's not. i think at the end of the day, his goal is to get -- to split the difference on immigration. >> let's turn to business before the bell. for that, we go to dominic chu. what are you looking at today? >> we are going to kick off with a multibillion dollar deal. they have agreed to buy immediate johnson for $16.6 billion. it combined lysol and baby food. this is all about immediate johnson's presence for selling

baby food in places like china, among others. that's a big deal there. we are getting data on how ivanka's fashion line is doing. according to slice intelligence, sales fell 26% in january, over the same time last year. important to note here, this is online sales. it's curious to see how sales are affected overall in the coming months after the controversy of president trump's tweet of nordstrom dropping the line. you have been talking about this meeting between president trump and shinzo abe. we'll talk about defense trade and policy. that's all expected. they will hit the links together down in florida. the president is a better golfer than abe and likes to get to know people on the course. that will be a fun thing to watch. finally, if you are looking for the perfect wedding gift, think about pizza.

dominos says they are starting a wedding registr for pizza. i want to see what the crew says. gift cards will be available to newlyweds to bond even more over things, yes, like pepperoni and cheese. >> this is great news. at least jordan is engaged. >> i don't have a wedding registry yet. >> throw open that laptop and get on the registry right now. >> you need to do that. that's fantastic. >> that was weird. >> i love that. thank you so much, dominic. as we go into the weekend, we can't end this week, it's been a remarkable week. we have heard everything. we talked -- >> you are up to something, i can tell. you have a weird smile. >> anyway, going through all this stuff. you know how i want to end this week? >> what? >> could you find me? what? could you find me a story about a crab sandwich? you got one of those for me? >> let me look through there.

>> willie has a story about everything. >> in other news, mcdonalds is looking to expand its menu options with a touch of class. the fast food franchise is now testing a snow crab sandwich. >> i'm going to vomit. that's horrible. >> if all goes well, the sandwich that includes celery and lettuce on a sourdough bun could be available. >> that is so gross. >> you know what the special ingredient is? >> what? why would that work if the mcdoughnut failed? it's going to be regional. >> the mcdoughnut did not fail. >> we are on 8th avenue in new york city. >> the mcdoughnut did not fail, it was wildly successful. we couldn't keep it in stock. we are going back and retesting it to make it a little less yummy. >> also, what about the mcrib,

only a regional, seasonal offer. >> it is. it is. >> we'll be in the rnd lab working on it. >> the one thing mcdonald's does, seriously, sweet tea. >> coffee and tea. >> how yankees have cracked the code on sweet tea. it's amazing. >> in 2011 -- >> you know what else is good? the big macs. i get two and stack them on top of each other and smush them down. >> they have sizes now. is that a limited time? i better get out of here. >> all right. democrats in the senate are down to 48. we are going to bring in someone who knows thousand right the ship. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪(music plays) ♪ heigh ho!

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on the show yesterday, we spoke with the mayor of south bend, indiana, who is in the running to be the next chair of the dnc. in a moment, we are going to bring in the head of the south carolina democratic party, also a candidate for that position. first, a look at some of the ground we have covered this morning. federal appeals court unanimously refused to reimpose the president's order. >> they took the broadest view of all the facts thrown out and cherry picked them. why didn't they use the underlying statute that gives

presidents the power to do it? >> this is a rather curious opinion. the art world is impressionistic. no, we are not going to give ground. >> a 4-4 tie, i think he could lose, 5-3 or 6-2. >> they have a winning argument. it's going to take months to win. >> we have a conflict between donald trump's ego and the national security of the united states. >> heard from several sources the white house is, right now, working on redrafting an executive order. >> michael flynn discussed u.s. sanctions againls russia. >> nobody applied it. probably unconstitutional. >> if prosecuted, that sets them back. >> going to give a free commercial. >> that's a big ethics. >> credibility. >> are they going to do nothing about it? >> chaffetz is going to come under pressure. >> there is something about this

white house that wants to ferment chaos. >> the problem with these distractions are not that they are in the media, but the elements destroy republicans. >> anyone want to buy the mika scarf. that's not appropriate, is it? i like that. i didn't make the scarf. joining us now, msnbc contributor, mike and head of the south carolina democratic party and candidate for the chairman of dnc, jaime harrison. >> why have the democrats lost over 1,000 legislative seats? >> the parties are broken. howard dean started the strategy in 2006. >> it worked. >> it worked, we won the white house. president obama layered on top of that. we won the white house. we had more seats in the house and the senate. after that 2008 election, ofa continued money to state parties, dropped, as a result,

we have broken state parties. >> mike, that's one question that's so hard for people to answer. you know, hillary lost. democrats lose 1,000 state seats. >> you have talked about this for months. there was no coherent message about why people who had historically voted for the democratic party were supposed to continue to vote for the democratic party. you know, i wanted to ask you this, because how do you go forward? optics are so important in this country and not allow yourself to be obstructionists by the same that obstructed president obama for eight years. >> it goes back to the state parties. they are the con ju at. if that is broken, it doesn't matter if you have the best messenger or best message, it won't get to the people it gets

to get to. when we look at why we lost this race, we lost it 77,000 votes in three states with 14 million people who voted. that is not a message loss or messenger loss, that's operational function loss. if you have a great operation, if you are sustaining the investment in state parties, 77,000 votes get out like that. we didn't do that. we put this car in the garage for four years. we put the car in the garage four years. we didn't change the tires or check the oil and brought it out a few months before the election and expected it to go like it did in 2012. >> isn't that incredible, mike? >> run for president now. >> it's incredible how the republicans looked at the democrats thinking they have a great turnout vote operation. that was the assumption until trump won. now it's reversed. democrats are saying what have

we done wrong? it's going back six years. i think there's a cultural disconnect between working class voters and the national party. >> the question for the democratic party, to me, going forward, is, how do you cnect now with the people who deced in this election that they got left behind. >> yeah. >> should the party be recruiting conservatives in places conservative democrats have a chance of winning or only progressives? >> i think the party needs to recruit good talent. we can't get caught in this conservative/progressive battle, who is going to win. in south carolina, let's recruit good talent. we are doing it. we started fwo years ago to build a bench. >> even conservative democrats? >> if you are a democrat, that's all i care about. i don't care if you are an obama democrat or hillary democrat, you believe there should be -- >> what if you are a joe manchin

democrat, is that okay? >> if that helps us get the majority and we keep donald trump appointments away from the supreme court, if that means we get the gavel, the speaker's gavel, more power to you. run. >> all right. >> all right. >> mike -- >> you want him to run? >> no, no, no, that's how you connect with voters. >> when i helped other republicans when i was in congress, i remember going to kentucky and saying how radical are they on guns. oh, prosecond amendment. how liberal are they on abortion. oh, he's pro-life. i remember looking at the guy going, i think you're screwed. sure enough, the democrat won that seat by about 30 points. be it a republican seat because they weren't freaked out that this democrat in kentucky didn't think just like every other

democrat in washington. >> we have to have a political conversation where we can disagree and not say you are a conservative and an idiot. >> on that ♪ ♪, that does it for us. >> it's very convenient. >> have a great weekend. tomorrow is saturday. >> tomorrow is saturday. >> "morning joe" edition. >> let's hope it's a calm saturday morning. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. joe, you can keep holding. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news overnight. see you in court. president trump in an all caps fury after a court rul against his travel ban. the president speaks to nbc news. >> it's a political decision and we are going to see them in court. >> we just saw him in court. he lost. >> is the supreme court next? a ghost writer. listen to this. a new report claims mexico's foreign minister was i