if if you cannot watch live, check out facebook page. it's "meet the press" i'll join colleague chuck todd at the table. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. >> this is is moscow. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. in washington facing early set back, new details about president trump's national security adviser have come to light that threaten to become a embarrassment for the administration. despite "the washington post" that general flynn did discuss sanctions with the russian

ambassador. these were reviewed as counter intelligence inquiry into contact between visor and creme lim officials. the same day that former president obama imposed sanctions on russia for meddle if our elections. -- agencies at the time of the call, "the washington post" reports that all of those officials said flynn's references from explicit. they said flynn urged russia not to over react to the penalty being imposed making clear the two sides would be in position to review the matter after trump was sworn in as president. they said he did not discuss sanctions in the -- here's what he said about flynn's

conversation with the russian ambassador. >> i talk to general flynn about that conversation and it was initiated on christmas day he sent a text to express not only christmas wish but for loss of life that the airplane crash that took place. it was co incidental that they had a conversation they did not discussion anything having to do with united states decision to expel diplomats or impose sanctions against russia. what i can confirm those conversation occurred around the time time united states took actions to expel diplomats had nothing to do with the sanctions. >> it appears general flynn is backing off his story. flynn doesn't recall discussing

sanctions but could not be 100% persons that he didn't. he tells nbc news that vice president pence based his conversation with flynn. "washington post," evelyn, former secretary defense for russia and -- shane. greg, what stuns me, must feel now he has been used or playing defense or something he was misinformed on significantly. >> he and two others went out on limb for flynn based on what flynn told him. now that limb has been cut. we saw today the awkward encounter between flynn and pence at the white house and that's a relationship that going

to be under some strain going forward. >> a reporting going on here, here is michael flynn director of national security caught is something he is not being truthful, he cannot rare about sanctions because of russian's involved in our election. he telling everyone in the white house i never had that conversation. when it comes through in the reporting people, secretary of defense, director, all seem to be having problems with this guy, the little people in the white house have to don't like him either. what is flynn's situation in terms of not being liked, trusted and above and below? >> flynn is respected by his military peers. he served numerous tours in

afghanistan and iraq and did well. he was important in those conflict for united states and sacrificed a lot. but he has made a fair amount of enemies among his peers for how he behaved after leaving government. he was pushed out and blamed it on the white house and -- then he travels to russia and accepts payment from a russian propaganda outfit to speak and sit next to putin at a gala event and that raise eyebrows among the people. then, it struck a lot of people as inprappropriate for somebody three-star general to behave

like that. >> i know trump is stubborn, he doesn't want to be there, if it weren't for trump's stubbornness, he would be in a lot of trouble. >> yes. he was removed from the defense intelligence agency because he was a bad manager. all of input, interagency process, he is not doing that. he was with him from the beginning, it's not going to easy to give him the heave hoe. i think there's going to be plenty -- >> i'm stunned by the blabbiness of this white house. why did they talk to freely about the guy who going president's chief foreign policy

coordinator. >> there are people in the white house jocking right now. they not used to working in the white house in a political -- there's kushner in the mix. you have all of these power struggle. >> the national security coordinator, he supposed to walk in with the president and sit down with the president and say say, we're hearing this from pompeo, or tillerson, you have to come to this conclusion, it's going to be honest broker, a sane, sober judge, he telling hem what do you want to do. here is a guy who cannot rare if if you talked to russia about

sanctions. >> the lack of transparency is the bigger issue because number one, how can you not remember a phone call you had in december that wasn't that long ago with the country that your country has priorityized as above all others, you should be able to remember that. second of all, it fills in this -- it adds to the narrative about lack of transparency on russia -- >> it looks like we are playing footcy with russia -- >> right. we don't know what their policy is. to my knowlee they don't have a senior director for russia i yet. where are we going with russia. >> rein priebus both spoke out

last month. they were careful to attribute their denial. don't blame me. here it is. >> i have talk with general flynn none of that came up. the subject matter of sanctions or the actions taken by the obama administration did not come up in the conversation. >> there's been one call. i talked to general flynn about there last night, one call talks about four subjects. >> let go to greg on this, i don't know sean spicer at all. he is in a difficult situation. he gets information given to him by the top people including flynn. how does he discriminate against what he this is or not. greg, isn't he is a advance

situation there. don't blame me i heard if from the other guy. >> they are in a position of having to point fingers at flynn and that undermines trust in flynns. what happens in they have to rely on his account and only his account for something they have to talk to the american people about. it has to make them uncomfortable. the timing is critical. it's coming at at moment when u.s. is concluding that russia engaged is cyber campaign to up end the election. the outgoing administration is stunned they layout the sanctions to penalize but putin does not retaliate and they are wondering why. that's led to scrutiny been flynn and ambassador that's when people start looking at why did putin do this. it never happened like this.

>> that opens the question greg raises there -- of course you are going to help us, i want to make sure you are not going to get punished for it. >> there's one president at the time yet they are interfering in the president's policy. in our attempt to defend our democracy by saying to the russians hold off, just wait. >> the trump people are on putin side whether he wants to intervene in our elections. >> that's what it looks like. >> now trump is saying he want to monitor all e-mail in the white house. i understand any corporation,

but to put them on watch, to say to the white house staff, i don't trust you. i'm going to go through your e-mail. >> but this goes to the sense, there are leaks come from administration, the president want to get a handle on that. if you put them on notice we're going to be watching your e-mail, there's chilling affect of that. >> they will start meeting in the garages. >> sure. it's interesting to see how the white house reaction is, clap it down. >> how long does flynn have? >> i have no idea. we were talking about this in the newsroom, in the normal period, this looks like something that would be disqualifying for someone

quickly. there's so many things that fall into this category the rules are in unchartered territory. the fact there so much happening it's hard to focusn one single event. >> i have to warn you, i do think reince priebus has something on his hands. thank you all. i love the preinterviews, you have great to have on the show. coming up the red hot debate. the limits of presidential power, does yesterday's ruling erode the power of the president or is it appropriate check of the executive branch. plus kellyanne conway got

strong bipartisan review -- the rising anger of the aleppo, watch this. >> president trump nominated -- [ chanting ] >> it feels a lot like that -- we have something on the left like it. plus president trump has been in office only three weeks. this is "hardball" where the action is. there's no party like a lobster party, and this is the lobster party. red lobster's lobsterfest is back with 9 irresistible lobster dishes. yeah, it's a lot. try tender lobster lover's dream and see how sweet a lobster dream can be.

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the unfortunate part is it takes time. we'll win that battle. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump reactioning to 3-0 travel ban. late today nbc news reported white house does not plan to fight decision to restrain order. they plan to defend the order.

trump tweeted see you in court. later he called a political decision. there morning he tweeted it was disgraceful decision. >> they celebrated. the court ruling indicated once again what the president did was inconstituti inconstitutional and immoral. he has a responsibility to protect the american people and the constitution of the united states he mailed in doing that. the courts rightly ruled. >> the president needs to grow up. the people are looking for him to act presidential. his tweet was i'll see you in court, in capital letters. there is a defeat for this administration and just a few weeks it's been engaged. >> the decision by the ninth

circuit judge raises questions, the president decision about immigration policy particularly when motivated are unreviewable even if the rights and protections. there no precedent to support the claim of unreviewable ability. that was the court talking. here to respond to that. i have two commonwealth representatives here. i'll start with ken. i do think it has to do with the power of the president which i want to see strong. but i think it is a lousy order, because it think it hurts our relation with islamic people here and our democracy, but let's talk about the presidency part. does it hurt the power of the

presidency? >> sure it does. particularly the massive expanniveness of the -- exercise of power is true for part of it but they did not break the order in pieces for these folks, they have no constitutional rights. they have no means to sue and challenge this. had they been broken out separately, they need to go and write another order that breaks those folks out separately and then deals with each category, for the folks that washington state complaining about people associated with the university, deal with them separately and with a greater focus on the due

process which was the concern of the ninth circuit last night and then each order is survivable and more particularized with the respect to the interest the president is trying to provide and frankly i think president trump ends up get the 99% of what he would like it o i chief here by doing more discreetly. that is forced upon them. >> do you believe that's true attorney general heelly, do you believe it's true if they clean this mess up, including the green card order, do you think that would make it constitutional what he did in is. >> absolutely not. if it's a bad baftch to begin with it's doesn't make it better by going back to retool this. the president of the united states does have the authority

to act in the area of immigration and whose coming into and out of this country. but that authority is bound by the united states constitution. and what the court was saying and what others have said, this is a president who acted without authority who issued an executive order that was unconstitutional and it's as simple as that. >> do you believe -- do you believe it really was a muslim ban in effect? because the court seem to be holding that. >> you can ask me or ask rudy giuliani. this as a muslim ban. it is a interference with our

religion -- and violation of people's rights. the court focused on the president trump administration what the court have done is call him out. you're making this up. you have offered not a scintilla of evidence to show this. we have had experts come forward and offer submission to the court say the executive order undermines hurts our national security. >> that's and policy argument. >> it's a policy argument. >> here is the court's saying something that stopped. nobody in the seven country have hit us therefore is -- we were hit on 9/11 by an egyptian

leading from. saudi arabia somebody has to make that decision. >> that's exactly the kind of power he wanted in the president and that our constitution and the laws deposit with the the president. this suspect just donald trump's judgment. he relied upon obama's -- attoey's that this is just muslim ban is flatly discredited and -- their conclusion about the most dangerous places in the world -- >> i have to give him a response. >> liableness is a strong word. >> i think president trump relied on steve bannon and guile

giuliani, what the president did was wrong. i'll tell you those people are who were effected i was at the airport the day after it was issued. students, professors, researchers, and can folks who work in major business here in massachusetts as well mothers and grandmothers separated. that's who was effected. >> there would always been an effect on any state on a travel ban. it comes done to -- the president has to make security decisi decisions. the court can't make them, can they. >> they took it over. >> the executive makes that. here is how it works. the president is entitled to make those decision with the

benefit of expertise. what happened is when the decision are made we have process here and the courts get to decide -- >> some professors couldn't get to their classes or students -- of course, that's damage. we don't deny that. where we benefit from. that's a presidential call. it will be damage to any decision, wouldn't it be, even if it was a muslim ban. i'm asking. >> there are winners and losers, it's right. the winner has toen the united states constitution. we have a president whooesn't get that. when he says i'll see you in court. he lost in more courts across this country on all issues. the president -- >> he won in massachusetts --

that. >> case hat not been decided yet -- >> trump administration -- >> it's going to get hotting. i'll stop it right here. thank you. you're both attorney generals of commonwealth. which i like. up next retail, for urging people to buy ivanka trump's products. well this is "hardball" where the action is. with every early morning... every late night... and moment away... with every click...call...punch... and paycheck... you've earned your medicare. it was a deal that was made long ago, and aarp believes it should be honored. thankfully, president trump does too. "i am going to protect and save your social security and your medicare. you made a deal a long time ago."

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welcome back to "hardball." less than a month in trump's administration they looking into whether senior aide violates law. ivanka trump by plugging her brand that was recently dropped by nordstrom. ivanka trump's online sales fell. here is conway. >> i do find it ironic that you have executive bragging about what they do to her and her

line. go buy ivanka's line. i own some of. i'm going to give free commercial here. go buy it you can find it online. >> ethics rules prevented that from endoring that. sean spicer was pressed on the matter. >> kellyanne has been counselled that's all we're going to go with. >> oversight committee asking them to review kellyanne's conduct. she responded. >> how were you counselled? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> they say they consider that to be serious potentially

serious violation of the government's ethics cold. >> we're aware of that letter and we're reviewing that. i'm happy to spend a lot of time with the president of the united states and he supports me 100%. we spoke about it and he supports me 100%. i can say at some point you ought to have a boss who treated me the way the president of the united states treated me today. >> joins me now, ranking democrat, congressman thank you. >> thank you. >> you and i remember a lot of politics. i remember harry truman giving hell as he trashed performance by the daughter in the theater somewhere. kel kelly ann was jumping on -- she was not there to sell products

to nordstrom or making money off the sales she was doing as loyalist to family. is that ethic violation, if so, let's go with it? >> it was a violation and president trump when he was running when talking about hillary clinton when he said nobody is above the law, he nor mrs. conway is above the law. chris, this was a textbook case of violation. er is a low-hanging fruit. chairman chaffetz had to decide with me because this was a slam dunk situation. i have to tell you at some point, republicans and democrats

in the congress have to check president trump. that's our job. >> i'm challenge this because i don't think it was somebody trying make the buck. >> no. >> i didn't like the fact jared kushner is nepotism law, le he is a son-in-law. he got in there. tell me about your view of trump. what do you think the general approach of democrats should be? >> i have said it over and over again i want our committee to have integrity. i want us to apply the roules t donald trump just as we would have to anybody else. when you begin to turn a blind

eye to people who are violating the law no matter what their intention, the fact is there's a violation. chris, this is thing you have to think about, other employees in other departments can get anything from a reprimand to being fired. why should someone get counselling and go on your merry way. i'm saying -- >> congressman, i they're there's only one sanction, you boot the person. >> that's exactly the only sanction. we referred this to the office of government ethics so they can look into i the person who finally makes desession is going to be president because that's her boss. >> what do you do in employees gets hawking good, what is short

of firing them, what could you do of firing them? >> days off. good question. there's a lot of departments have a certain number of days off for first, second or third offense. go from reprimand, to days off to being fire. we cannot have this happening in the white house. at some point someone has to say no. and. >> i agree. i appreciate that. thank you congressman cummings of maryland. let's watch a bit of that. [ chanting ] do your job.

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. >> first of all, 98% of the scientists say no such thing. >> top lying to us. [ chanting [. >> this is what democracy looks like. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was a small sample of the anger erupted across the town in town halls. demanding answers on a range of

topics. >> investigate. >> investigate. >> bet me tell you something you're not going to like this part. the president under the law is exempt from the conflict of interest clause. he is exempt. >> seems to be a growing movement as a number of republican house members face raw you cans -- ruckus. republican critics are brushed aside that's it's going more than anger. is this a rising rebellion like the tea party was? >> i'm joined by the panelists.

we're f what do you make of those pictures. >> i think they are under pressure right now. it would be wise for them to listen to the left. >> why is that? >> they didn't do it very much during election and look at the results. it would be wise to listen to the left and -- >> go ahead. >> please, more anger, more left. keep going down the path, right now all the offer is rage not solution. you see protests, you see this. i want more. i want more because i want -- >> do you think it hurt the left. >> pardon. >> do you think the women's march hurt the left? >> no --

>> civil rights movement in the major movement in the nation. >> it becomes political forces. >> you're wrong. >> they went were protest to winning political election -- >> let me ask you, do you think this is going to translate into elections? >> i think. >> where would you be if they didn't win in november. >> it's been 28 days. the tea party i don think anyone would said that the tea party would be successful as -- >> history suggests -- >> i want to go back to hillary clinton. >> she lost. >> she went over to the -- she was -- >> she lost. >> she got the popular vote.

>> she shifted to the left on trade, on war, what else, it didn't work. why do you think it didn't work? >> because they saw her flip-flopping. >> what is flip-flopping. i have been at white house for 20 years i have never seen this. let say this, then i want you to hold yourself -- >> i'm holding myself back. >> first of all, you have a lot of people support the fact that mexico was going to build the wall and pay for the wall that will be built. who is going to pay for it now? >> -- here what's diagnogoing t happ happen. >> 55% support it according to the polls -- >> not ban muslim.

>> it's not a muslim ban. >> i like your strategy. >> good. >> here's the thing. i think you're talking like mitch mcconnell. he did target -- help wants her to be winner right now. because in kentucky she wouldn't win. >> what do you think it is? >> he made a huge mistake. >> you think it was stupid thing. >> i would never say that. >> you -- i think he made a political miscalculation. >> there was a move to take elizabeth warren and make her --

>> let's say this -- >> what do you think? >> let's say this -- >> if he want to fight with elizabeth -- >> your part he's yet to come up with a solution. >> this is a lot of excitement right now. >> we'll be back. they will tell me something i don't know, which can what they have been doing. we'll be back. whether it be with customer contracts, agreements to lease a space or protecting your work. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you, every step of the way. so you can focus on what you do and we'll handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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we're back with the "hardball" round table. olivia, tell me something i don't know. >> there's been a lot of talks in the last couple weeks about president bannon and steve bannon pulling the strings behind the scenes but based on what i hear from my sources in the white house, it is it utter chaos. there is no leader, the leader is donald trump's impulses and they're trying to play catchup. >> sources close to the supreme court are saying it's increasingly likely trump will have another scotus nomination. justice kennedy, his odds are increasing he'll step down and trump will take another federalist society judge and put them up. >> does that mean we have a

confirmation this summer or sooner? >> sooner for gorsuch. >> they'll get 60 votes? >> i think that eel go nuclear if they have to. >> that doesn't tell me anything, will they get the 60 votes? >> i don't know. >> i think they might. >> there's the draft floating around for the hbcu executive order the president is supposed to issue at the end of the month. >> historically black colleges. >> yes, historically black colleges and universities. in that aft it says, allegedly, they're going to tak out the hbcu initiative out of the department of education and put it under the purview of the white house. the question is who at the white house will oversee it. >> olivia, by the way, is not a liberal, right? she's an independent thinker you never can predict, olivia, ned, thank you. april ryan is going to stick around and talk about her box "at mama's knee, mothers and race in black and white." stick around far and buy the book. i can do that, i'm on

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that has everything to do with the people in here.d. their training is developed by the same company who designed, engineered, and built the cars. they've got the parts, tools, and know-how to help keep your ford running strong. 35,000 specialists all across america. no one knows your ford better than ford. and ford service. right now, get the works! a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more -- for $29.95 or less. and this is they like lobster party.y, red lobster's lobsterfest is back with 9 irresistible lobster dishes. yeah, it's a lot. try tender lobster lover's dream or pictwo delious lobster tails can be. with newobster m anmatch. the only thing more tempting than one succulent lobster tail, is two. is your mouth watering yet? good. because there's something for everyone, and everyone's invited. so come in today.

as promised, welcome back too "hardball." april ryan is back with us, she's the author of "at mama's knee, mothers and race through black and white." her book includes interviews with the most recognizable names in american politics, including former president barack obama. my friend april, a couple questions. someone a contemporary question. you have to talk to yr kids

about a president who has made some terrible comments about ethnicity and minorities. how do you tell the kids that the majority of people in this country who are white picked this guy? >> we all live in a democracy. one of the greatest things about this country, we make decision and we have to deal with it. at the same time, we can make change and if you don't like it, we have the freedom to express that and they know about activism from issues of civil rights. they know about the fact that they have the power and if they have the will they can stand in front of the white house and express it peacefully with a permit. >> what do you tell your kids about the white majority and why they voted for this guy? because they did. you know the numbers. >> i tell them sometimes that we digress and i tell them sometimes there is a backlash and in my case sometimes i tell them there's a blacklash. some people believed in the rhetoric, the racial rhetoric

and they felt it, they heard it themselves when they heard it watching this show or other shows. i talk to them about what happened years ago. >> one last question. i've heard this from a famous opera singer, i won't name her, she went to catholic school if in the midwest. >> so did i. >> she said "whenever you try to make what you think is the goal line, the white people change the goal line." >> is that common thinking. >> it's not common thinking, it's real. >> that's what people believe. >> it's a higher standard for african-americans and minorities. when i grew up my mother told me we have to be work three times harder and three times better -- >> well, let's sell this back. i was kidding before, we're not kellyanne, we can sell books. this is available on aemazon. >> any bookstore. >> you are a great writer. there's another great writer who wrote the forward. >> yes, a guy named chris matthews. >> it was an honor.

white people especially -- well, not especially but everybody should look at this book to learn what the world is about. april ryan whose new book is "at mama's knee. mothers and race in black and white, what it's like to be an american from a different perspective." that's "hardball"." "all in" with chris hayes starts with his big meeting from chi to town. america's third largest city has been reduced to a soundbite. >> nine people were killed between friday and sunday. >> 700 homicides last year. it's unacceptable. >> but chicago's tragedies and triumphs are real human stories, not just talking points. from segregation to jobs to policing to gun violence. finding solutions is more complicated than a president's tweet. >> what's going on in chicago? >> this is an