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at clorox 2 we've turned removing stains into a science. now pre-treat with clorox 2! watch stains disappear right before your eyes. remove 4 times more stains than detergent alone. what are some of the changes that you're looking at? >> just in honor of the decision, we will perhaps do that. we'll see. but monday or tuesday. >> you talked about new security measures. is that separate from potentially writg a new -- >> we're going to have very, very strong vetting. i call it extreme vetting. and we're going to have very strong security in our country. we're going to have people come into our country that want to be here for good reasons. good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy," live this morning from los angeles, california. donald trump isn't giving up on

his travel ban or on his doomsday vision of america, even after getting slapped down by the ninth circuit. the three-person panel of the federal appeals court was unanimous in its decision declining to reinstate the ban on travelers from seven predominantly muslim countries and on all refugees. trump's executive order has been temporarily blocked while the courts decide whether it's constitutional. nbc news has learned that white house lawyers are working on a rewrite of the travel ban and the white house says all options are on the table including taking the case to the supreme court. joining me now is vince warren, executive director of the center for constitutional rights. vince, thanks for joining us. let's talk about, first of all, option two, which is going to the supreme court. is there any way to sort of predict the likelihood of success on that 4-4 court? >> there isn't any way to predict success when it comes to any multijudge panel. i think there are some things that the trump administration needs to worry about. number one, the lower court, the ninth circuit court of appeals,

found that there was virtually no evidence supporting the trump administration's claim, number one, that anybody had come from these seven countries and committed a terrorist attack upon u.s. soil. actually the number is zero. number two, there was no reason for -- they gave as to why the current vetting process should be changed. there were no changed circumstances. so they're still going to have that problem going to the supreme court of not having put forth enough evidence. the other situation is there are a mixture of more progressive and more conservative people on the court. and when the supreme court has looked at questions like, for example, president trump's view that his executive order is unreviewable by federal courts, that's one of the things you don't tell courts, that they can't review presidential orders. even republican judges and justices get a little upset about that blanket claim for presidential power. so it's not going to be a cakewalk for the trump administration even if it goes

to the supreme court. >> if it went to the supreme court and was 4-4, the lower court ruling was stand? >> that's correct, they split 4-4, the number of judges that they have is eight, the lower court ruling stands, and the freeze on the ban stays in place. >> so vince, the center for constitutional rights has sought, they've actually sought some documentation, they want to see documentation on how -- they don't want to call it a muslim ban, the travel ban came about. one of the questions is whether the office of legal counsel in the white house reviewed and approved it and if so, what legal gymnastics did they undertake to justify this historic act of discrimination. what would the administration have to do to clean it up and make it pass constitutional muster, what would they have to change? >> first of all, i'm not in the position to be able to help this administration create a ban on

people coming into the united states based upon their ancestry or their religion, so i don't want to do that. i will say there are two things to look out for. number one is that we have asked for those documents from the office of legal counsel, the legal justification for this ban. and number two, the other things we've asked for is that we filed a complaint with the inspector general of the department of homeland security, because no matter what happens with this particular ban, if it's stayed, what was happening during that weekend when it was in effect was absolutely horrendous. customs and border patrol officials were handcuffing people. they were not giving them food. they were forcibly put back on planes, they were forced to sign away their status they had been given by the united states before they were forcibly put back on planes. even as president trump thinks about about what he's going to do next, it's also important to focus on the chaos that was created in the wake of that order, and the very poor

problematic response that officials within his administration and in the executive branch on that. they had a lot of explaining to do. i would find it hard to believe that there is a sound legal basis for banning people who are going to end up being predominantly muslim from predominantly muslim countries, none of which has yielded a terrorist attack on the united states' soil. it's very hard to see what that legal documentation would look like to support any kind of claim. >> all right. vince warren, thank you very much for your expertise, we appreciate it. >> thank you. we now turn to a big story developing here in california. protests broke out in downtown los angeles on thursday after rumors that immigration and customs enforcement rounded up over 100 people in southern california. i.c.e. confirmed people were arrested in a five-day raid that ended on friday. the agency is pushing back against claims that the raids were connected to the president's executive orders. joining me is eric garcetti,

mayor of los angeles. >> welcome to l.a. >> thank you very much, we could use less rain. >> well, we could use the rain. >> that's absolutely right. let's talk about the fears spreading across the this community. you've seen people really worry that this is the first wave of the trump administration going after illegal migrants. what's really taking place? >> it's definitely devastating. we have students afraid to go to school, families worried that they're going to be separated. our position, the position of mayors across this country, mayors and republicans, we're too pro-family t sarate families, we're to pro-economy to see our economy weakened, we're too pro-police-chiefs. we've had so little information. initially when people said there's a hundred people that were taken in, initially they said that was wildly inflated until the numbers came out that it was 150. at the airport, they said nobody

has been sent back, until we found somebody who has been sent back to iran, somebody i know who had a visa and had come to reunite with their family. the level of fear, i want to reassure my residents that their mother or father will be there when they get back from school, that folks who have service members, we have a lot of adult family members of service members, their parents may not be there when they come back from war. we have to humanize what this is. we're worried we're not getting information. the substance and the process has been less than good here. >> a lot of fears that people had is that during the obama administration, a lot of dreamers came forward, gave their information voluntarily to the federal government, and they're now vulnerable, 750,000 young people who now have their information in the hands of the trump administration. is there anything you as mayor or city officials or state officials can do to protect them? >> absolutely. we've said we're not going to share information on our schools, our private universities, our public universities. these will be places of sanctuary. we're not going to give

information from our drivers licenses in the state. i think it's important to protect privacy, period. it's the cornerstone of this country. i'm the grandson of a dreamer. my grandfather came here as a refugee during the mexican revolution. his mom picked him up as a 1-year-old baby and carried him over the border because she was worried about him. i'm mayor of the biggest city in the union because he came here and fought in world war ii for this nation. we have more people affected by the travel ban. we have more than three times the next biggest city in america of folks born in those seven countries where the ban was in in place. this is a huge human cost. i think we have to keep bringing it back to the family stories and the great successes we're having, low crime, economic prosperity in cities that are open to immigrants. >> you've said you would sue. >> absolutely. we're take a look amicus briefs, we have lawyers who have taken

actions for individuals. we're ready to defend the constitution. it was a good week for the constitution. we have to be ready next week, if something else comes out. we want safe and secure borders. we want folks off our streets, child molesters, cocaine traffickers. if grandma is caught up because she didn't pay her parking bills, that's not the person we want to deport. >> this is a huge city, and you're trying to do this two-track defense. you're worried about people coming into l.a.x. and your airports who may not be able to get off planes to see their families waiting for them. you're balancing a lot of people who are afraid in this city. how do you keep the city -- i mean, this is a city in fear, it seems. >> i keep saying, we can't lose our heads but we also can't lose our values. for the folks in the second category, we've put together a justice fund to provide legal counsel to them. this week it's rolled out to allow lawyers to defend folks who are threatened with those deportation hearings, who are dreamers, who are the military

families, who are those innocents who are caught in the crossfire. secondly, we will also continue to defend the constitution. one nice thing to see is that states and cities across the country have come together in a coalition to remind washington, the power has always come from us. what's most important is not the most powerful person in the country but the nost vulnerable. >> can the federal government strip money from the city of los angeles as the president is threatening? >> it's unconstitutional. the tenth amendment, it was justice roberts who said against obama that you cannot put a financial gun to the head of states and cities to say you've got to zig if you want this money from zagging. we have to defend that constitution. there is no nexus on these funds. i keep questioning, which federal funds do you want to take? the vouchers that help our veterans get off the street and stop being homeless? is it the detectors of biological or radiological terrorism at the port of l.a.? tell me which funds, which by the way are our taxes, you're going to take away and try to repatriate to washington?

>> and california is a donor state. can the federal government force the lapd to pick people up for immigration raids? >> no. think about it practically. i can't have my officers solving homicides, rapes, burglaries, if they suddenly become deputized. it's not only against thelaw. we've always said the most conservative police chief we ever had started this policy in the '70s. because we have to have the trust of the people we police. logistically, we would stop solving crimes in los angeles if they had officers. >> mayor eric garcetti, thanks very much. up next, did a member of the trump administration break the law by talking to russia? that's next. and later in the show, we'll talk to the family of a woman who is being called the first victim of trump's immigration raids. and we'll have more on the i.c.e. raids that are sending shudders in immigrant

communities including mothers and children. >> reporter: recently, 8-year-old kelly heard a knock on the door. it was immigration officials with questions for kelly's mother who is undocumented. kelly was so traumatized, she had a panic attack and was hospitaled. her father is detained and she's terrified of losing her mother as well. elp of the lowest taxes in decades, a talented workforce, and world-class innovations. like in plattsburgh, where the most advanced transportation is already en route. and in corning, where the future is materializing. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today at esd.ny.gov

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they did not discuss anything having to do with the united states' decision to expel k diplomats or impose censure on

russia. the conversation had nothing whatsoever to do with those sanctions. >> back in january we learned that general michael flynn, donald trump's pick for national security adviser, had a phone call with russia's u.s. ambassador on the same day president obama announced sanctions against russia for interfering in the 2016 election. a senior government official told "the washington post" that flynn spoke with the russian ambassador several times that day, and, as you just heard, when questioned about the timing, the white house rolled out the vice president, mike pence, to assure the american people that sanctions were not discussed. trump spokesman sean spicer added to that, saying the conversation was limited to planning and logistics for a later phone call between trump and vladimir putin, saying "that is it, plain and simple." ll, it turns out not to simp. because this week, in an explosive new story, "the washington post" reports that nine, nine, current and former senior u.s. officials have confirmed that sanctions against

russia were in fact a topic of discussion between flynn and the ambassador. when asked about the report on friday, donald trump said he didn't know about it but he would look into it. joining me now, malcolm nance, msnbc contributor, and the author of "how to catch a russian spy." malcolm, donald trump doesn't know anything about this, nothing at all. but michael flynn's trajectory on this has been interesting. he said he didn't talk about sanctions. didn't do it. on friday a spokesman for flynn backtracked on that, telling nbc news flynn "can't be 100% sure but can't remember." >> the former director of the intelligence agency would not know about ofm, own force

monitoring, which we monitor as a counterintelligence protection measure to ensure that that person is not a spy for a foreign power. everyone knows this. >> he should have been known when he talked to the ambassador that he was being monitored. >> there are two transcripts here, one seen by u.s. intelligence. that's our side of it. the russians have their own transcript of what was actually said, and these things could be used not only for blackmail, okay, but it could also be manipulated. his own protection right now is the fact that we know what he said. he should come clean, if he did a quid pro quo, if he did this on the day we were kicking out 35 russian spies and he was assuring them this will be no problem, things could change in the trump administration. who does he work for? that's all can imagine. there's a lot of unterintelligence officers in the united states right now just shaking their head and wondering whether they have a russian

asset. he's going to have to clean his tail. >> and he already, michael flynn, i feel like we've been having this conversation for a year literally, because i think it was last summer that the three of us started talking about, among other things, michael flynn's proclivity to be friendly with vladimir putin, sitting at the table at the rt dinner with jill stein. now you have claire mccaskill now asking, she sent a letter to our old friend jim comey, fbi director, asking, given the significant implications that any such communications may have had, i request you provide a closed briefing for the committee as soon as possible regarding the scope and status of any current fbi investigation related to general flynn's contact with the russian government. my understanding, naveed, there is also an investigation involving michael flynn, right? have we ever had a national security adviser under such a

probe? >> no. we haven't had a national security adviser where one of his paid gigs was speaking for rttv while sitting next to vladimir putin. one step back about flynn, let's understand where this is coming from. look, he was fired from the dia. i think he was very, very angry. i've heard in the beltway that he was, after being essentially canned, he was untouchable by defense contractors, unhirable. i think one of the gigs that he got, very clearly, was from rt. and that was not a coincidence. they brought him out there, not illegal, he was paid to speak, they put him at the table with vladimir putin. so on one hand, the american president who fires you, then you have the russians who welcome you and put you at the table with their president. this whole view, this idea that islam, radical islam can be defeated with the aid of the

russians, this ideology has been the cornerstone of the trump administration. i agree with malcolm, the ssns frankly appeal to general flynn's ideology that islam is the enemy and frankly that they convinced him that russia can help. that's not espionage, but a level of manipulation that occurred here. >> you now have mike pence, the vice president, throwing flynn under the bus, essentially now saying, an administration official has sold nbc news vice president pence's only source for saying flynn did not discuss sanctions was flynn himself. you have pence being the normal republican-ish camp, and flynn being in the other camp, the sort of odd camp. what's in flynn's future? >> i've been hearing for several weeks that flynn is on the way out. this whole ideology that the trump administration has adopted that's pro-russian i think has to do in large part with this

really strong belief that somehow russia is going to help them fight isis. and, you know, i think that's coming from flynn. and again, just because general flynn spoke to the russians, even though trump had not been sworn in, everything i've heard, that's not necessarily illegal, that's not necessarily espionage, it's important to understand that. but clearly it's a questionable decision. it's clear that he was attempting to reassure them to not act, so that they could sort of figure out a policy going forward. again, not espionage, not illegal, but clearly somewhat distasteful. and i don't think he was completely honest with the vice president. look, someone's going to take the fall and it's probably going to be him. >> let me demur on that point here. anybody in the united states who has special clearance would have had their clearance pulled, strapped to a polygraph, getting a full lifestyle polygraph, and

cleaning their tail, as we say, to determine was this person actually misusing his position and giving the russians something based on some past connection to our opposition? at a minimum he should lose his clearance and should not be allowed to continue on. the russians are in a spy hump themselves, they're killing and capturing people that they believe was associated with the christopher steele memo. for flynn, as a man of honor he should just step away and say, look, until this is cleared up i shouldn't be given access to any more classified. >> i understand what you're saying, malcolm, speaking of giving the russians something, edward snowden, there's story being floated now, nbc news has a story that russia is considering returning snowden to the u.s. to, quote, curry favor with donald trump. edward snowden responded to this with a tweet, a tweet that i would love you to respond to, calling this story irrefutable evidence that he never cooperated with russian intel,

no country trades away spies as the rest would fear for their necks. your thoughts. >> you know, there's movie called "bridge of spies," and it was this bridge in berlin where we would exchange spies for each other. if snowden is coming back, you are going to see the biggest espionage trial in the history of the united states, and it actually could help trump, all right? you know, granted, i think that trump should bring him back and use this diversion to say that he's tough on him. snowden is a defector. he took everything that the national security agency had, he doesn't think he gave it to the russians, but any good spy master like vladimir putin, we have this saying, spy master's going to spy, right? he knows everything that's on that flash memory. the only thing that's left to do is the symbolism of snowden as this, you know, character who he believes he's a whistle blower. he's a spy. he's coming back. he's going to see the inside of a super max prison. >> the other thing that he did

was his whole case really made wikileaks -- it increased the left's affinity to wikeaks which made their later operation againstilry clinton much more effective in sort of hurting her with people on the left, right? >> absolutely. look, if snowden wasn't a spy, i assume ivanka trump has a dress to sell you from nordstrom. it is absolutely absurd to think that. this man spent six weeks in moscow, with, by the way, wikileaks at his side, the entire six weeks. the russians -- look. the real reason the russians are kicking him loose is he wasn't anyone of note at nsa. he stole a tranche of documents. he absconded to russia eventually. once the russians got his files, they have no need for him. he doesn't know anything, he's a low level systems administrator. the whole thing that the left has built up that he's this sort of privacy advocate, it's all baloney. again, he has no value to the russians. he's a political sort of liability to them. of course they're going to kick

him clean. malcolm is absolutely right, the largest espionage trial, he'll be convicted, it will send a message, this idea that you can't just take stuff because -- and hide behind this sort of morality clause, it's just baloney. >> both of your twitter timelines are going to be fascinating to read for the next two or three hours. malcolm unanimous and navee naveed jamali, we'll have you on next week. next, ivanka trump's fashion line -- rejected! stay with us. the first rule of being a viking.

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but when we brought our daughter home, that was it. now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helpsrevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how. i'm just really happy that a spent an awful lot of time with the president of the united states this afternoon and that he supports me 100%. >> so you spoke about that matter and he is not -- doesn't have any intention to suspend you? >> we spoke about many matters and he supports me 100%. it was a very heartening moment. all i can say to america's women

is at some point in your life you want to have a boss who treats you the way president trump treated me today. >> when donald trump launched his twitter beef, this time against the american company nordstrom over their decision not to sell his daughter ivanka's clothing line because of poor sales, his team came to his defense. first up, sean spicer. >> an attack on his daughter. he ran for president. he won. he's leading this country. and i think for people to take out their concern about his actions or his executive orders on members of his family, he has every right to stand up for his family and applaud their business activities, their success. >> won the election, fatherly concern, check. next up, top trump adviser slash spin master kellyanne conway turned an appearance on fox news into a virtual qvc segment,

literally urging people to go out and buy ivanka's clothing. >> i do find it ironic you have got some executives all over the internet bragging about what they've done to hadder and her line. people can see through that. go by ivanka's stuff is what i'll tell you. i'm going shopping to get some myself today. it's a wonderful line. i own some of it. i'm g to give a fe commercial here. go by it, everybody, you can find it online. >> that little infomercial may have violated federal ethics laws which bar government employees, which conway is, from hawking products. and after the predictable fire symptom, including an uncharacteristically harsh letter from the house oversight committee led by staunch trump defender jason chaffetz, conway was counseled. but was she?

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[ crowd chants "do your job" ] hold on. what kellyanne conway said what she said about buying that particular product, that was wrong, wrong, wrong. i called it out. they need to investigate it. kellyanne conway was wrong, it should never happen again and there should be some accountability there. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." after kellyanne conway endorsed ivanka trump's clothing line on fox news, even jason chaffetz, republican chairman of the house oversight committee, raised an eyebrow. he penned a letter with ranking member elijah cummings to the government accountability office asking them to investigate. noah, you're at a disadvantage, not only are you the only man on our panel but you're far, far away, so i'll let you go first.

the ethics issue, we keep hearing over and over from trump administration people that the president is not subject to conflict of interest laws. what about conflict of interest laws. what about kellyanne conway? >> she's clearly subject to ethics laws, and clearly violated them here. the rules and laws are very clear that you can't use an official position to benefit a private interest. that's what she did here. it's clear-cut. and it sends the wrong message. and frankly, the initial statement that she was counseled, we thought that was pretty inadequate, because usually that means somebody explains what the rules are, tells you not to do it again. that's what happens when it's a rule that you would have no reason to know about. this is something that should have come up in basic ethics training on day one. and counseling doesn't get you there. now it seems like the president is apparently taking the position that she did nothing wrong. and that seems to send the message that ethics rules don't matter when you're helping the president's family.

that's a pretty scary place to be, with a president that owns massive global business interests. >> that's important. lisa, one of the things they're trying to rely on is sort of ignorance as a defense, what you're seeing now. you're seeing ryan lizza, who writes for "the new yorker," sources told him, members of the white house inn circle is that conway thought the prohibition against commercial eorsemes was overly broad. their response was, hadn't michelle obama promoted certain fashion designers? the quote is, what if you had worn a tom brady jersey after the super bowl? this is what kellyanne told sean spicer. >> oh, please. if she doesn't understand the difference between wearing something on her person and going on television and literally saying i'm going to do a commercial now for ivanka trump, everybody please buy ivanka trump clothing, she should not be counselor to the president. that's her title, counselor.

yet she has to be counseled about this? this goes back to donald trump saying on the "access hollywood" tape saying, when you're a star you can do what you want. she has no record for the most ba basic ethics rules. >> you are a star, i'm assuming you can't do whatever you want. this is a part of the celebrity world, people want you to wear their clothes and promote their brand. but in the context of politics, do you see what kellyanne conway did and what michelle obama did by just wearing designer clothes in any way in the same sphere? >> not at all. she's trying to turn the white house into a dollar store. and that's not -- that's not right. i mean, you can wear something, and somebody can mention that you've worn it. but michelle obama did not get on tv and do a commercial for them. and in fact that's actually not fair. it's not fair to all the people who can't get that type of press. ivanka trump needs no more press than what she has right now. everybody sees her every day, she can wear her own stuff.

we don't need a counselor to the president doing a commercial for his daughter. >> another distinction is michelle obama wasn't earning a check from j. crew, she didn't stand to earn money if people wore j. crew, even if people saw her wearing it and were inspired to put it on. >> that's right. what we're seeing is a pattern of the president and his administration doing things that befit hisfamily, that benefit his supporters, you know, when he goes after nordstrom's in a tweet, he advertises for l.l. bean in a tweet, when someone who gave him a lot of money is on the board of trustees of that company. that's something that is very different than somebody wearing clothes that shows that the like a certain line of clothing. if you're benefiting the president's family, the president's businesses, potentially, and the president's supporters, that is misusing the office in an entirely -- in a

way that's entirely different. >> and i mean, that is the point. it's the kleptocratic impulse of saying, don't go after my daughter's clothing line because that costs me money. it goes to whether republicans believe businesses are supposed to be in business to make money. they say, we made this decision based on performance. over the last year, sales of the brand have steadily declined to the point where it didn't make good sense for us to continue with the line for now. we've had a great relationship with the ivanka trump team. we've had open conversations with them over the past year to share what we've seen and ivanka was personally informed of our decision in early january. >> whatever happened to republicans being in favor of the free market? if a product is not selling, maybe she should improve the product. the product is not selling either because people are boycotting, as i am, pamany peoe

are boycotting trump products, or they're just not resonating with the consumer. does she really need daddy to bully people in the business word to sell her products? that sends a terrible message. >> sales are down, "the wall street journal" which is not in any way a liberal paper, says sales of her clothing line dropped 32% at nordstrom despite nordstrom's overall sales being up. so sales performance was poor. >> he chose to run for president. we're seeing he's trying to run it like he runs his business but all his businesses are bankrupt. so i'm sorry to hear that, no one wants anybody to do badly, but she chose this when she decided to stand by her father and also work in the white house. >> this is what happens. t.j. maxx, the company is called tjx company, they own t.j. maxx, they've instructed their stores

to mix her items in with other brands and to throw away signs advertising her brand. "at this time we continue to offer this line of merchandise. from time to time we communicate with our stores on how to handle communication. we instructed stores to mix the line in with racks." they're trying to get away from a boycott. >> hey, karma is a you know what. ivanka had two interns last summer who complained about not being paid. everybody deserves to be paid, especially when the owner is worth so much money. >> you've had the administration try to use ivanka trump to soften up the administration and make them all more likeable. is she in a position that's unfair in any way? >> no. she's a grown woman and she's making her endorsement out of family, but she understands, he's done a lot of fearmongering. he's trying to undermine american confidence, and they're trying to throw her out and say,

soften this message. no. live with this message. people can't sleep at night and you're talking about you can't sell a few extra rags? no. >> lisa, could kellyanne conway be in any legal trouble here? >> absolutely. this is a flagrant textbook violation of the conflict of interest laws. it's disturbing that she doesn't know that, she doesn't get that. you don't get to promote a private brand. this is not supposed to be a kl kleptocracy. what happened to we're going to divest ourselves of our business interests? the fact that kellyanne had to do that, and by the way nordstrom is an american company that employees 85,000 americans, meanwhile ivanka's brand is all made in china. who is suffering from these tweets? it's american workers. >> this is a great conversation. the laws of time. fabulous panel. we'll have to bring you guys back all together. coming up, more on trump's

immigration plans and how they're already impacting california and how california is fighting back. more "a.m. joy" after the break. ♪ glad forceflex. extra strong to avoid rips and tears. be happy, it's glad.

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we have a crime problem. i wish the blip -- i wish the rise that we're seeing in crime in america today were some sort of aberration or a blip.

my best judgment, having been involved in criminal law enforcement for many years, is that this is a dangerous permanent trend. we will deploy the talents and abilities of the department of justice in the most effective way possible to confront this rise in crime. >> jefferson beauregard sessions immediately joined in on president trump's false claims that crime is rising. it's not. sessions will lead more than 113,000 department of justice employees and launch what dald trump calls, quote, a new era of justice that emphasizes law and order. what about voting rights, something that's also on the doj portfolio? joining me now is an investigative reporter and the executive director of the advancement project. thanks for being here.

judith, this idea that crime is on the rise, not true. the murder rate is lower than it's been in 47 years. you can see the chart there. that's the direction that the murder rate is going in. and crime overall is down in part because the economy is pretty good. what do you make of this constant fearmongering by the trump white house, insisting that the country is in constant crime turmoil and that there's terrorism around every corner? what are they trying to do? >> joy, this is dangerous alternative facts that are being presented. and this is really about making a stronger police state that bears down on communities of color, muslim people, lgbtq communities, that what we should expect out of this department of justice is an attorney general who really does step up to make sure that law enforcement has more money, that people who are

protesting get prosecuted, that dissent is squelched, but also that communities of color will be feeling the law and order, while white communities get protect and serve, black and brown communities will be under attack. this is going to be terror on our communities. and unfortunately, they're relying on these false facts. and for him to say that this is a permanent trend, this is the same language that led to the war on drugs. so we need to understand, increased incarceration rates, and we also know that at the end of the day there is a private prison industry waiting to actually cage people that are victims of this new war on drugs. >> and, you know, greg, the other half of what sessions can be expected to do, i think people who are in black lives matter and other movements that protest should be concerned at what this justice department will look like, the other thing is you had donald trump this week do a meeting with senators

and once again make this false claim about voter fraud. he starts again saying, essentially that in new hampshire, he would have won new hampshire had it not been for voter fraud. so talk a little bit about what the ascension of jefferson sessions in terms of the right to vote. >> that's his first, second, and third job, is to purge the voter rolls of nontrumpers, basically people of color. it's real simple. donald trump has laid this claim down that 3 million people swam the rio grande, illegal aliens, to vote for hillary clinton. now, you might think it's a big joke and the guy is off his rocker and talking through his combover. the thing is that jeff sessions is the guy who put in a bill to require voters to prove they're citizens. you say, of course you should be a citizen to vote. go ahead, prove you're a citizen. you either have to have naturalization papers, a passport. how many homies have passports? how many latinos game back from

their alps vacation skiing with a passport, or your original birth certificate, go find that. basically trump support eer kris kobach came up with this idea. people have been unable to vote because they could not prove their citizens. sessions is going to push with trump a law and he's going to prove there are supposedly illegal aliens. i saw this happen under george w. bush, where david iglesias and other federal prosecutors were told, go and arrest illegal aliens voting and if you can't find any, and i'm not making this up, a federal prosecutor told me he was told by the white house then, find people, arrest them, you can let them go later. >> and judith, i think this is the sort of big red flag with jeff sessions, because he does have a long history of being for things like voter i.d. laws, the

harshest possible measures to keep you from voting. what is the community, people such as yourself, the civil rights media, going to do about this? >> we're going to have to first of all be enforcing the voting rights act ourselves. we'll have to litigate more. we also know we'll have to be watching them at every step and making sure that they are not overreaching and overprosecuting people for fake voter fraud. i mean, look, joy, this is a person who is no friend of voting rights or civil rights for that matter. this is a person who said that the voting rights act was "intrusive." this is a person who when the supreme court struck down part of the voting rights act, he said that was a win for the south. like he was a confederate general. and so we will be watching him. we will be litigating, if we have to bring cases against the department of justice, we will have to do that. but at every inch, we have to protect voters. because now we know we have no friend at the department of justice. >> and if you recall coretta

scott king's 1986 letter about jeff sessions, she accused him of using his awesome powers of office when he was a prosecutor in alabama in a schaphabby atte to intimidate and frighten elderly black voters. he has prosecuted silver rights workers for helping people register to vote. >> right. he's been part of this whole big voter fraud scam. it is just a cover. i call it the hysteria factory. he get hysterical about voter fraud and then come up with some sort of solution. donald trump just repeated that a million people are illegally registered in two states and voting twice. >> including his kids. >> well, the thing is, we don't find any of these double voters, but in this election they removed in republican states people from the rolls on the grounds of voting twice. now we'll see this go into law. jeff sessions, when he was attorney general of alabama, he

arrested civil rights workers on charges of voter fraud, and he grabbed elderly black people, put them on a bus, and sent them in a 400-mile round trip session, to make them testify before a grand jury. pure voter intimidation aimed at voters of color. worst jim crow tactics. and he's actually proud of that. he doesn't even say, gee, sorry, that was another era. he's proud of it. >> and people should look sharp because what he's there to do in washington may not be so great for voters. thanks for joining us. coming up next, i'm here in los angeles, california, the heart of the resistance. more on that after the break. ♪ why do so many businesses rely on the u.s. postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. ♪ that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.

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if we have to, we'll defund. we give tremendous amounts of money to california. california in many ways is out of control. >> wow. welcome to "a.m. joy," coming to

you live from los angeles, an out of control california. donald trump has escalated his threat to who would federal funds from states, cities, california state university, and now threatens to defund the entire state. california finds itself in trump's crosshairs because of its role as leader in the resistance against trump's policies. trump's latest threat comes as california democrats advance legislation that would in effect knit together the state's loose network of sanctuary cities and turn all of california into a california state. joining me is john dean, former white house counsel is authorize of "conservatives without conscience," state senator kevin de leon and antonio villaigosa. thank yoall for being here. this is an all sr panel. it's great to be here. i have to start with you, senator de leon. on this threat from the federal government to defund the state of california, you guys have already hired eric holder and

his law firm to defend yourselves. what can the state do to stop that from happening? >> we will never appease in the state of california anyone who seeks to undermine our economic prosperity or the fundamental human rights of all individuals irrespective of who they are. you're right, i hired eric holder, we'll look at legal strategies to prepare for the frontal assault on our environment, people of color, immigrants, as well as our health care. the reality is this. irrespective of the threats he has made from the white house to a state like california, we'll defend ourselves because his threats are in fact illegal. they're unconstitutional. the american people need to know this. when you threaten a state like california, you threaten to undermine the economy of the united states as a whole. because we are 13% of the gdp of the united states of america. and when you threaten to withhold moneys from a state like california, what you're threatening to do is withhold monies from senior citizens who

have alzheimer's or young children on the spectrum of autism. it's mean-spirited and un-american. >> it's ironic that we're here in the home state that was once governed by ronald reagan and richard nixon. >> nixon never made governor. he was a senator out of here. >> what does it mean to have a president of the united states threaten a state like california and essentially say you'll do my bidding on immigration, you'll do my bidding on things like the muslim ban or i'm going to take money, even though this is a donor state? >> i think we ought to build a wall along california. joy, this is america 2.0. this state is an amazing place. i've been here 45 years. i've watched it under republican rule, democratic rule, and i want to tell you something, the republicans have damn near screwed this state up, it was inoperable. for trump to impose a hard right

wing dictum on this state just isn't going to fly. he's picking on different areas, sanctuary cities. delighted to see that san francisco stepped up, went after his -- 11 days ago filed a suit against his executive order, such as it is. so we are -- the state is going to take action. and i couldn't be happier to be in a blue state this time. >> a lot of people might actually be moving here, you'll bring a lot of people with you. >> that's why we need a wall. >> to keep the rest of us out. the thing about it is, you have california, which donates more money to the federal government than it takes back in, which is now fighting on this multiple front. we had eric garcetti, the mayor of los angeles, on earlier. they're in in two-front battle, the people landing at l.a.x. who can't get off the plane and people terrified about being deported. does california have the resources to fight the federal

government? >> we have the resources and i think the will. you heard the senate pro tem, you heard john dean. there is a great deal of support for the notion that california is going to do it differently. we've set the highest environmental standards. we've extended health care to more people than any other state, really going all in. we can do it better and differently than you see in washington, dc. i think people here in california believe that our diversity is our strength. we're the epicenter of the foreign born. i was mayor of l.a. l.a. has more immigrants than any city in the united states. and we've done -- we've thrived with that. so i think we're going to mark a different path. i don't believe that we should be responding to every ignorant thing that comes out of the president's mouth and every misrepresentation of fact. but we do need to doubl down. double down on creating more

jobs for more people across the entire state, not just the coast. double down on not just environmental standards but creating green jobs for more people. double down on what we do well. i know the legislature is looking at doing things like making sure that we're providing assistance to immigrants as they're being threatened with deportation. we need to do more of that. we need to say that california is going to mark a different path and a path that i think is the future for the nation. john said it very well. we're america 2.0. >> this is where the country is going demographically in so many ways. senator, i want to play you what sean spicer had to say back on january 25th. he was talking about this voter fraud, supposed voter fraud probe that they want to launch, going to be spearheaded by the vice president. he talked about who is going to targeted in that probe. take a listen. >> i think when you look at where a lot of potential of a lot of these issues could have occurred in bigger states,

that's where i think he's going to look. >> he was essentially saying california and new york will be targeted and that donald trump only lost the popular vote because he didn't campaign here. >> this is a classic misdirection targeting people of color, targeting latinos, african-americans. this is not american. it seeks to divide the country even further, tear at the fabric of who we are as a great nation. this is a beautiful mosaic, an incredible tapestry of different hues and ethnicities from over the world, immigrants from the pacific rim, europe and elsewhere, this is what makes us the greatest state and greatest nation in the world. as mayor villairagosa just mentioned, we're the sixth largest economy, not hemispherically or nationally, but on planet earth. those from the lower class, those from the middle class, those from middle america who came for better economic opportunity, fleeing oppression from the midwest. this is who we are.

we're a state that accepts individuals irrespective of who they are and where they come from. >> during the campaign you have this "lock her up" chant, the specter of donald trump, if he were to become president, prosecuting his opponent. you now have the specter of him essentially trying to investigate every state he lost and trying to prove those states' systems are full of fraud. >> not going to work there. not going to work in many states, i think. we all know he has zero evidence of this. it's not the sort of thing you can keep secret. his claim, for example, that massachusetts bussed into vermont or new hampshire. there have been thousands -- what, 40, 50 buses to move people that no one ever saw. so, you know, i really don't understand the disimabling day by day coming out of the white house. i've never seen anything like

it. i've never seen a team go in and be less organized. i was even noticing their press releases, they don't date them fully, they don't give you the time of the press release, just basic fundamentals. they need someone to come in and, one, show them where the light switches are, but secondly show them the procedures that have been in place there. there's a very small staff that remains from white house to white house, not enough to guide them, to get them in the right halls and the right offices and the right procedures. so it's really rather pathetic right now. >> one wonders whether they would be competent enough to wage a war on voters. >> on voter fraud, they've studied this again and again across the country. there is no evidence of substantial voter fraud. just as they've studied the issue of undocumented immigrants committing crimes. the national academy of sciences looked at this issue. immigrants, including mexican

immigrants, committee crimes in a lower degree than native born people. it's a bunch of misrepresentation of facts, lies that come out of the white house. and unfortunately out of the president's mouth and his twitter handle. >> speaking of his twitter handle and the beeves hef beefss started, what would a trade war with mexico do to the economy? >> it would harm our economy. we have the ports of los angeles in alolong beach, 40% of the go that come into our country come through los angeles. if we get in a trade war with our friends and neighbors south of the border, it will help destroy jobs, hurt the economy, and put people out of work. with this border tariff he wants to impose on mexicans with goods coming into the north, you're actually creating conditions for further, quote unquote, illegal immigration to the north. i find it quite ironic. he's making haphazard,

irresponsible comments when it comes to the economy, when it comes people, again, dividing the fab rric o who we are as a nation. >> this state has 11% asian population. what about the potential for trade skirmishes in the pacific rim, including china? >> it could hurt. the state gives more than it gets. it also gets a lot from the federal treasury. if he uses that as a squeeze to affect trade or many of the programs, it could hurt the state. but there is an amendment that the right wing has featured for years in its literature. it's the tenth amendment. >> yes. >> they've trained democrats well for how to use it. and i suspect it's going to get a lot of use. >> antonio villairagosa, they would like to also reduce legal

immigration, that could hurt silicon valley which has a large population of immigrant workers. >> and deny benefits to legal immigrants. yeah, they're going way beyond the criminal element, as they say. the 160 people that were deported over the last couple of days, it's true that a number of them had crimes, had committed crimes. but they were very low level crimes like having a social security cd that was fake. the fact of the matter is, these people are going to -- as john said i think very well, they're going on an agenda that is far beyond the mainstream. and i think they're going to see not just california, not just new york, but people of conscience across the nation are going to say, this is not what we voted for. he talked about jobs. i don't see a jobs agenda from this guy. he talked about moving people into the middle class. i don't see that happening.

all i see is divisive rhetoric and machinations which turn one american against another. >> antonio villairagosa, good luck in your run for governor. john dean, great to finally meet you in person. senator kevin de leon, good luck, we'll be following your fight, you guys are the leaders of the resistance in the country. up next, the hard wrenching story of the mom deported after living in the united states, get this, for more than 20 years. her husband will join us after the break. this is one gorgeous . oh, did i say there's only one special edition? because, actually there's 5. aaaahh!! ooohh!! uh! holy mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. which one's your favorite? come home with me! it's truck month! find your tag for an average total value over $11,000 on chevy silverado all star editions when you finance through gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer.

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i think it's unfair that they just took her away just because she was working in order to support us. and no one, no one should ever go through the pain of having

their mom taken away from them or the pain of packing her suitcase. no one should go through their mother's clothes seeing, oh, is she going to need this, oh, is she going to need that. no one should be packing their mother's suitcase. >> that was 14-year-old jacqueline, an american citizen whose mother, lupito garcia de rayos, an undocumented immigrant, was deported to mexico on thursday after living in this country for more than 20 years. on wednesday, protesters tried to stop immigration officials for trying to take her away for deportation. she came to the u.s. when she was 14 years old. her crime, using a fake social security number in order to get a job and provide for her family. joining me now is her husband, and an activist organizer.

thank you all for being here. aaron, i'll start with you. what is the status right now, what is lupito's stus right now and is there a process to try to bring her back to the u.s.? >> that question is best answered by ray. >> we're definitely -- and thank you for having us, bringing attention to this very important case. we're definitely looking into all options right now. lupita's original conviction was based on sheriff arpaio, now out of office, who was found guilty of racial profiling, and some of these charges being federally preempted. we're looking into any possibility of overturning that criminal conviction. and we have in the last few days just received calls from many attorneys, many people interested in helping out. so we're putting together a legal team and we're definitely going to keep working on this until we could get her back home with her kids and her husband.

>> francisca, obviously this has been heart-wrenching for the family. can you tell us what is being done in terms of organizing? >> just like lupita, we have many members of the community who are at risk, many people who have family and roots. it is about lupita and also about the many lupitas, who are in her shoes now. for us it's important to set a precedent for the rest of the country and show that we're not going to allow this type of kidnapping, of disappearing of our people happen easily. so it's both for the rest of the country to see it, for trump to see it, for our city to see it, our mayor, everybody else, and for our members to know we'll find really hard for them to stay. >> and for lupita's husband, how is she doing? >> she's doing great. as you can tell on the news, she's very strong. my kids are strong.

i'm strong. that doesn't mean by any means that we're not suffering. a lot of people are used to seeing crying, tears, everything. in this case we're strong, yes, but we're hurt. just because you see myife talking strong and my kids talk strong and myself talk strong, that doesn't mean we're not hurt inside. we're hurt, very hurt. but we're keeping strong because of the help we're getting from everybody, from ray, from" puente movement, that's what's keeping us strong. >> ray, the crime for which lupita was deported was using a false social security number. but she was -- i believe, if my understanding is correct, she was charged with that many years ago and was checking in with i.c.e. on a periodic basis. did something change such that when her most recent check-in, she was then marked for deportation? >> yeah, you know, i think it's

better said that her crime was feeding her family. her crime was wanting to provide a better life for her children than she had for herself. that's really her crime. and nothing's changed in the facts of her case from the time she checked in in the past to the time she went there earlier this week other than president trump now being in power. these new executive orders that he put out, putting out new priorities for deportation, are essentially an attack on the entire immigrant community and an attack on all people of color. we need to be very careful, and all people out there need to be prepared to fight to organize against these incredibly outrageous executive orders that president trump has put out. >> and francesca, i.c.e., immigration and enforcement, has denied this increased enforcement is because of donald trump's policy. do you believe that? >> absolutely not. president obama is the one who built this deportation machine,

he deported more people than anyone in the history of this country. but i.c.e. had discretion enough that if someone had family here, had lived for a long time here, had enough room to fight their case. donald trump has gotten rid of prosecutorial discretion as we speak. donald trump has stated that anyone is pretty much open game for deportation, anybody suspected of a crime, being here undocumented, unfortunately, is considered a crime, so for us, everyone, everyone is suspect. and everyone could be picked up at any point. so yes, donald trump is most definitely operating this machine, deportation machine that was created at 100 miles an hour at this point. >> and ray, just to be clear, it's considered a crime but it isn't considered a felony, do i have that correct? >> no. in the state of arizona, we've gone through this anti-immigrant hatred for the past decade. they did make it a felony, working to support someone's family. we've since challenged that case and that case is in federal

court right now. we have a ruling that the local officials cannot use the i-9 and related documents, that's something we're going to be exploring. i think it's a travesty to look at it in the bigger picture that our state and our country criminalizes the act of working to support yourself and to support your kids. and they do make it and label someone a felony. that's criminalization of immigration. >> absolutely. for lupita's husband, tell us about her. she came to this country when she was a kid, 14, the same age as your daughter. and she saw herself, i'm assuming, as an american. >> yeah, i mean, she was brought here by her parents. that's what i want to make leclr to people. a lot of people like my wife are brought by their parents. she didn't decide to come to the states by herself, on her own. her parents brought her here. she does what we need here, we started dating, this is where we

got married, this is where my kids were born, grew up, where we go to church on sundays, where we go out to eat after church, where we serve our community. this is her country. this is my country. this is my kids' country. my wife is here most of her life. yes, she was born in mexico but she's been living her whole life here. she belongs here. >> we certainly hope that lupita is able to come back to you guys, back to her family. thank you all, we appreciate your time, thank you for joining us. >> thanks again for the attention, we appreciate it. coming up, more on how undocumented immigrants and the industries that depend on them will fare under the trump administration. stay with us.

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i'm here to stand for equality of all communities, especially here in los angeles. the latino community is usually praised but threatened all of a sudden, this being a sanctuary city. that's very concerning. this aggression needs to be acknowledged. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." u.s. immigration and customs enforcement arrested people across southern california, prompting demonstrations in downtown los angeles. many protesters believe the arrests are evidence of an immigration crackdown under the new administration although i.c.e. has denied this, saying that the focus was no different than the routine targeted arrests carried out by i.c.e.'s fugitive operations teams on a daily basis and that the rash of recent reports about reported i.c.e. checkpoints and random sweeps are false. joining me now, congresswoman

judy chu and wendy carrillo, congressional candidate in california. i'll start with you, congresswoman. the current congresswoman, rather than the future congresswoman. i.c.e. says it's not a crackdown that is new and different. but definitely, in talking with the mayor of los angeles, with various officials we've had on the show, people feel it is. is there a crackdown going on? >> i asked customs and border patrol yesterday myself. i asked the los angeles branch what were the people that were being detained, were they people that were actual violent criminals or were they people that were swept up and had misdemeanors. and i asked for the numbers. they could not get that to me. they said they were complying with the older order. however, we congress members are very concerned about this. and we are asking for an official meeting with customs

and border patrol in washington, dc to get the true answer behind this. >> because wendy, if it's a surge that has to do with, you know, attempt to remove violent criminals from the streets of los angeles, that's one thing. but we just talked with the attorney and the husband of a mom whose only criminal record involves working and using a social security nuer that wasn't real. even if it's not a surge, it seems to be sweeping up moms. >> we saw this in the previous administration, now it's heightened. people are afraid, they need to know their rights. we also need to talk about the prison industrial complex and the centers that have detained women and children and families for years now. we're seeing it more and more. now that this mother is being removed from the country, where is she going, does she have family, will she be okay, or is she just being taken to another country that she hasn't known since she was 14. there's a lot of human rights

violations occurring. >> when we talk about unlawful migration or people in the country undocumented, it's always seen as a mexican problem, mexican citizens crossing the border. when you talk to the undocumented, there are asian-american people undocumented, people from the caribbean who oversay the sasta visas. you've had an irish official talking about the many irish who overstay their visas. this isn't just a mexican problem. why do we not talk about that broader immigration issue? >> yes. this is an issue that affects so many people, including asian-pacific islanders who are 10% of the undocumented. this is an issue for all of us. we all have a stake in making sure there is a way of resolving our broken immigration system. we know that if we are able to fix our broken immigration system, we actually could grow this economy.

by $1 trillion over the next 20 years. we've actually reduced the federal deficit by $850 billion over the next 20 years. there would be a net benefit if we are able to fix it. >> and it does seem there is something sort of existential about the fact that california, which has very liberal immigration policies, a blue state in the biggest sense of the word with a very large nonwhite population, it also has an incredibly vibrant economy. immigration has not exactly hurt california. >> no, quite the opposite, immigration is what makes the country gareat and what makes or state amazing. we're one of the most multicultural states in the union. you can go anywhere in the worthless world in los angeles. the trump administration cares very little about people of color, women, lgbt folks, trans women, women's rights. now we're seeing people coming

together, if you care about muslims and refugees and have been protesting about the airports, then you should care about families that are being separated and detained in detention centers and their civil rights and human rights are being incredibly abused and violated. >> we've seen immigration reform go nowhere in the republican-controlled congress. you're now hearing rumblings that this administration what's got steve bannon and others who oppose legal immigration, they don't want h1-b visas, they don't want silicon valley filled with asian workers. do you think there's steps your colleagues on the other side of the aisle could take to curtail legal immigration? >> i was encouraged by the incredible protest against the muslim ban. that would have been the first step in trying to prevent people who have a legal right to be here from coming here. can you imagine, all these people came back from visiting relatives in some other country,

were stopped at the airport and were even being given forms to sign, this form 407, to voluntary deport themselves. yes, they were convererced into signing that. >> can you explain that? form 407 would reverse your green card status? >> that's right. you would say, i voluntary give up my green card status. the green card status that i worked for years to get. and there are people who have lived here 20 years who are being coerced to sign this form. >> and you're also seeing people not being allowed to talk to counsel. >> correct. so people need to know their rights. if immigration enforcement goes to your house, you don't need to open the door. you can stay silent. you have the right to an attorney. if they say they have a warrant, let them slide it underneath your door and make sure it is signed by a judge and it has your name and your address, and that immigration forms i-200 and 205 are not warrants signed by a judge, and you do not need to open your door. immigrants and people that are

in mixed status families need to know their rights. there are so many organizations that have all this documentation in various different languages, like the aclu being one of them, so that you have that information on your refrigerator, know your rights, talk to your neighbors and make sure you have a right to an attorney. >> what is congress going to do about these 750,000-odd dreamers who gave their contact information, it's in the hands of the federal government, now in the hands of the trump administration. will congress do anything to protect them? >> i was encouraged, because there was a bipartisan, bicameral act that was just intru introduced, i'm part of it, i'm a co-sponsor of it, an act to provide relief to the dreamers. i was impressed at the press conference we had because i heard republicans actually speaking very strongly on behalf of the dreamers. so we just need for that word to spread amongst more of the republicans that are in

congress. >> and lupita, whose story we just told, was a dreamer, her parents brought her when she was a child, we've already had a dreamer deported. >> the original dreamers. that is the story of migration in this country. because of u.s. foreign policy in other nations, we often see these countries struggle with jobs and the economy. people don't migrate because they want to. they do it because there are necessities. and you need that, that's one of the reasons my family immigrated from el salvador during a civil war and we came to this country seeking the american dream. now even years later we're seeing the same cycle. it's like we're reliving the '80s, the '60s, when the u.s. had operation wetback. so now it's clearly targeted. we're seeing it in communities across los angeles and across the country. this one was in texas. so people just need to know their rights and know that they don't need to open the door, and that they can remain silent and

they have a right to an attorney. >> congresswoman, probably the thing i hear most from people who watch the show is, are the democrats going to stand firm and fight or at some point will they capitulate and try to work with the administration. do you see in your caucus a will to stay and fight with this administration? >> we must, when there are actions that harm our people. you know, these actions, these muslim bans, this immigration executive order, they are un-american. they are taking us backwards from this america, that we know was built by immigrants, that is strong because of its diversity. and so we know that we have to fight to keep this the america that we know. >> for you, running for congress, do you think that democrats right now have been strong enough, up to now, in terms of standing up to the

trump administration? >> i think there have been some democrats that have been clearly fearless. and there are some that have been very safe and not doing enough. that is the status of the current democratic party. and so there are people across the country that want to see the party be a lot more forceful and fearless and truly represent the voices of the people of this country. and, you know, the fact that we have to lobby so hard against voting for somebody like jeff sessions and the democrats need to be lobbied without knowing, like you should know that you should not be voting yes on jeff sessions. but you need to be called 50,000 times in order for you to make that kind of vote, shows a complete disconnect between the democratic party and the people that it's supposed to serve. >> last word, congresswoman, are the democrats ready for 2018? because that's when this battle will really be joined. >> absolutely. i was so encouraged by the women's march, by the turnout at all the airports. it was what we call organic.

it wasn't just put out by somebody who had millions or anything. this was truly the people just coming out because they felt that we had to make sure that america did not go backwards. >> yes. >> congresswoman judy chu, thank you so much. wendy carrillo, running for javier bessero's seat in congress, thank you. republican lawmakers are facing a lot of these and vocal constituents on a wide range of issues. is this the left's tea party moment? up next on "a.m. joy," the cartoonists bringing a little comic relief to the resistance.

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>> hello. >> make america great again, baby! perhaps the silver lining in sending donald trump to the white house is the surge in the quality and sharpness of political cartoons, satire and commentary emerging in these turbulent times. there's no shortage of content these days, providing much-needed moments of levity and viral lessons on how to stay sane amid the madness. david cypress, a cartoonist for the "new yorker." thank you for joining me.

it's great to talk to you. >> thank you. >> i love your stories. submitting your cartoons for 25 years before they finally started to feature you. i want to go through some of what you have done in this era when a lot of us are relying on your work to keep ourselves sane. this first one is a lot of fun. this is a couple of people walking down the street and they say my desire to be well informed is currently at odds with my desire to stay sane. please explain. >> this cartoon tends to pop up whenever the economy gets dire. i think what's -- what works in it, i don't get the reaction, oh, that's hilarious, that's really funny, the reaction i get is, that's exactly how i feel, that's exactly my connection to the news. i think that right now, a lot of people are feeling this conflict between wanting to keep up with things, and also wanting to have some sense of sanity in their life. >> yeah. >> because there's just so much coming at us. >> yeah, constantly.

it is sort of a barrage. they're talking about it this morning, like they're throwing ping-pong balls at you and you're trying to catch them at the same time. you have a great piece in the "new yorker," called the weather. this is actually in the current issue of the magazine. and it says, that was brad with the democratic weather. now here's tammy with the republican weather. that needs no explanation, but talk about that cartoon a little bit. >> i set up an extremely absurd exaggerated situation in order to underline the extreme absurdity of what's going on in this case the partisan divide. but saying it in a way that doesn't hit people over the head, take things on straight on. i like to do it sort of from the sideways way, so i disguise what i'm saying in the situation of a weather report. >> yeah. and do you find a cartoon like that gets you equal love, or equal anger from democrats and republicans? >> well, you know, if you're on

social media, you get it from democrats, republicans, and everything in between. so it's really hard to say. try not to get caught up in all that. >> absolutely. let's look at the next one, which i think we take pretty much to heart. these are two dinosaurs seeing a meteor coming at them and say, i blame the media. >> yeah, that was during this past year, a barrage of attacks on the media. that's a situation i draw a lot, the two dinosaurs, and the meteor coming in to destroy the planet, because all kinds of captions can work with that. i was thinking a lot about the attacks on the media, and i sort of looked at that drawing and thought, blam, i blame the media. two weeks later i did the exact same setup, and except one of the -- this was right when

people -- between the election and the inauguration, where people were saying, give him a break. it's going to be okay. and i had one of the dinosaurs saying, to the other, don't worry, it's not going to be so bad. >> yeah, you might have to do a new one that says oh sweet meteor of death. i see that one where people are trying to bring on the comet. because they can't take it. this one i think a lot of, particularly our viewers can relate to. this is someone meditating. may i be free of fear from donald trump. may i be free from suffering over donald trump and may i be joyful and have peace from donald trump. >> i do yoga, and it's similar. but what happened there is, i wrote an es sad for the website, the magazine about how people are coping. i interviewed a lot of friends. and everyone was saying that self-care is really crucial, not just to feel better, but to feel strong, and have the stamina to

resist. you need to take care of yourself. and so i thought, okay, meditation is kind of the ultimate way of self-care, and so i took these lines from loving kindness meditation and added the factor that everybody can escape, which is donald trump. >> that is very true. talk a little bit about your own process, how do you stay sane in this time of tribulation? >> well, for one thing, i draw cartoons, which is very helpful. because it gives me the illusion that at least i'm pushing back a little. but i also, you know, as i said, i do yoga. unfortunately, i'll be lying there in a relaxing pose and thinking about trump's attack on financial regulations, but i do my best. but mainly, like a lot of people, i think doing something is really important. so i've been going to rallies, and i've been doing whatever i can to resist a little bit. and i think that's what's really

important. i was just going to say, some of the funniest stuff i've seen has been at the rallies. these wonderful signs that people are carrying. i was at a rally last weekend, and it was amazing to hear 3,000 people cheer in unison, never forget, bowling green, never forget bowling green. >> i guess lastly, the arts have seemed to have formed a real sort of core of the resistance to trumpism. and that hasn't happened in a while. the arts really galvanized in this way. i consider what you do a part of that. do you think that's something that's really important, not only to make people sane, but to furthering the resistance? >> i think it is. if you watch alec baldwin on "snl" and you're laughing or watching a terrific monologue by somebody, and when you're laughing, you have the feeling that you're resisting a little bit. that you're connected to other

people who agree with you, and are pushing back. so at least i know -- the art i know about is humor and i think humor is really, really important. >> absolutely. your humor is terrific. we enjoy your work. thank you for coming to share a bit of it and your medicine with us. thank you so much, david. that is our show for today. be sure to join us tomorrow 10:00 a.m. eastern for more "am joy" live from los angeles. coming up next, competing rallies for and against planned parenthood. we'll have live reports from across the country. more news is coming up at the top of the hour. even the most perceptive noses won't notice the trash. be happy. it's glad.