we march because it's wrong to have trumpism. it's wrong, racist and demonic to have fear into our immigrants and our muslim brothers and sisters and it's wrong to build

a wall to keep mexicans out while you let the russians in. it's just wrong. good morning. welcome to "am joy." coming to you live from los angeles, california. well, the people have spoken. thousands gathered in north carolina's capital for the 11th annual moral march on raleigh led by the state naacp. protestors at the annual civil rights march sent a clear message with what organizers are calling their biggest crowd in the march's history sending the message that they oppose the trump administration's policies and the efforts to repeal the affordable care act. other issues strike closer to home. protesters spoke out against gerrymandering and redistricting and pushed for a so-called bathroom bill targeting transgender bill. joining me is reverend william barber president of the north carolina naacp and author of

"the third reconstruction, moral monday, fusion politics and the rise of a new justice movement." reverend barber, thank you for joining us. congratulations on the largest moral march that you guys have had in 11 years. how did you pull that off? why do you suppose people were so galvanized? >> we is the most important word in the vocabulary. we've been doing deep organizing over 80,000, some say over 100,000 people were there. people were there because we marched against the repeal of health care. that's what drew people in. you know, there are more than 2 million north carolinans that have pre-existing conditions that would be hurt. people are demanding the state legislature redraw the lines. people marched because they were against legislative over reach and they marched because they're against the hate, racism, xenophobia, islamophobia and people are saying, we are not

going to stand down. the cry of yesterday standing down is not an option. >> and while obviously the naacp is not part of an organization, the north carolina republican party felt constrained to respond to what you did. let me read you what dallas wood house has to say about the march. the agenda supported by this march is towards bigger, more expansive government. it's an agenda soundly defeated in four statewide races and does not support most carolynians. >> our agenda was vetted by economists and is one good for the economy. our agenda is a creating agenda. it is an anti-racist, antipoverty, pro-health care agenda and i think we just won. i think they lost the executive branch, the judicial branch, other parts and when we redraw these lines they will lose the

general assembly as well. we don't have to be partisan, we are principled and we can speak to the moral center without getting into the kind of just negative talk that dallas would have said over and over again, same talking points, same regressivism, same extremism. >> to your point about winning, the governor that was elected in large part due to the ground swell of the moral mondays, republicans and democrats, a thr three-judge panel has sided with the governor to strip his poe jurors by requiring elective confirmation of his cabinet appointments. are you starting to see those victories more and more? is that why people are seeing so hopeful because you are able to win some of these fights? >> right. because first of all, we don't frame it around just election, we frame around the moral center. we tell people, if you hang in there, if you do a marathon and not a sprint, if you refuse to be quick in quit but you choose

to stick and stay, then you can win. we're beginning to see that when people commit and we also say that people don't fight you this hard. they don't cheat this hard, they don't redraw lines this hard. they don't suppress the vote this hard if you're weak. they only do that if you're strong. and that's why dallas woodhouse in that crowd, they wrote a deal at the end of the year. they supposedly were going to help storm victims and pass the storm of legislation to hold back the governor's power and then lose it. they have lost something like 14 times in the courts. they have lost based on the constitution. we keep fighting because we do see that we're winning. and, joy, we've got to focus on the state legislators. it cannot be just about trump, we have to get at the root of the issue and at the root of what's going on in this country is the kind of regressive public policy that's coming up on this -- these statehouses, the article about that in "the new york times" this morning. >> and one of those regressive policies is the bill that was a

twofer. it not only attacked transgender people and where they can go to the bathroom as if that's worth legislating and stripped their pay. if hb 2 is not repealed the state will suffer a six year drought of no ncaa championships, no march madness games. what is the progress like of trying to push back hb2? >> you're right. it disallowed people to access the state courts in terms of the full employment cases. our marches is not just mobilization, it's movement. so on february 27th we're marching on all of these congressional offices. we're demanding number two state legislators to have that in the districts. we'll have a mass moral march and we announced yesterday that unanimously the state executive committee of the naacp voted to ask the national to support an

economic boycott based on not just hb2 but sb4 that tried to roll back the governor's rights, the refusal to deal with race igs gerry manned dering and redrawing the lines. we believe these are serious, serious lines. i stood on the stage yesterday with black and white and transgender and gay and straight and young and old and muslim and christians and jews and people of all different races, creeds, and colors. you look at that stage, it looked like the america, the north carolina that can win in the south and across this nation. >> yes. and that, sir, is why you called it a fusion movement. reverend dr. william barber, thank you so much for being here. we really appreciate it. >> thank you so much, joy, have a great day. >> you, too, sir. north carolinans weren't the only ones taking it to the streets. saturday saw multiple demonstrations erupting across the united states. protesters for and against planned parenthood, against the repeal of the affordable care act and for addressing

immigration were out in force yesterday. some just blocks away from each other. town halls are also becoming the platform of choice for angry constituents for face-offs directly with lawmakers. on saturday republican members of congress faced crowds of angry constituents like this one in newport ritchie, florida. it's playing out as the trump administration seeks to repeal obamacare. joining me is ted lu of california who serves on the house judiciary committee. thank you very much for being here, congressman. >> thank you, joy. >> let's talk about this action out in the streets. what impact is it having on democratic members of congress to see these demonstrations? >> thanks for that question. i have to say that i was down and sad up until january 21st when i saw that amazing women's march and to see the town hall protests, it's really energizing democratic members of congress, democrats across america. it's amazing to watch. america has awoke to the dangers of donald trump and the extreme

republican agenda. >> you've been very firm, very strong in going after the trump administration including trying to pull back some powers to congress away from the administrative -- away from the administration. is there enough of a critical mass inside of the democratic caucus and are there any republicans, quite frankly, that are being galvanized in those town halls that will help you to rein in this administration? >> you're beginning to see more and more republicans to have a back bone to stand up to donald trump. you have senators john mccain, lindsey graham saying, no, this russian cyber attack serious. we can't have them attack our democracy. you have members of congress, republicans now starting to say, no, we're not going to have terrorists on american companies. they're starting to push back against a trump agenda. really it's the people of america to see all of these organic protests happen at airports and states are not blue states. >> yes. >> florida, north carolina, it's amazing to watch. >> absolutely. you talk about russia, i want to

talk about general michael flynn, the national security adviser. the washington post blockbuster story that he did in his phone calls with the russian ambassador potentially talk about the easing of sanctions. i want to play you what steven miller who is an interesting character who's advising the trump administration, this is what he had to say when he was asked on "meet the press" this morning about michael flynn. take a listen. >> before i let you go, does the president still have confidence in his national security adviser? >> that's a question that i think you should ask the president. the question you should ask the chief of staff. i'm here as a policy adviser and my focus is answering the policies you have. general flynn has served his country admirably, three star general and head of the defense intelligence agency. >> not really an answer. >> that was very telling because mr. miller does not say that he has confidence in michael flynn and he should not. the washington post reported from nine sources, nine u.s.

officials who basically say michael flynn lied. michael flynn talked about sanctions with the russians and the russian ambassador and that michael flynn lied to the american people and then you have vice president mike pence to lie to the american people. >> right. >> we cannot have a national security adviser that has no integrity. that's why we on friday issued a joint statement asking that michael flynn be fired. >> are you confident that the trump administration would stand up to russia and stand with nato if russia were to continue its aggression in europe? >> absolutely not. and that's why donald trump really is a danger to the republic. we can have disagreements on tax policy or on health care, but when the president of the united states is pushing away our european allies by saying nato is obsolete and encouraging russian aggression, that is a threat to america. when the american president offends leaders of mexico and australia, that is a threat to america and we just need to make sure we push back on extremeness

of donald trump. >> you said on judiciary we just now had the elevation of a new attorney general who a lot of people of color are very uncomfortable with. california is a state that has a majority minority population. a large hispanic population. very large asian-american population. are you confident that this justice department will defend the right to vote for people of color? >> absolutely not. again, that's why i concluded that donald trump is a danger to our republic. his cabinet officials often are very extreme people that look like me, people that look like you are under threat. we need to make sure in 21 months america votes. if we bring back the house of representatives to democratic control we can stop the trump agenda dead in its tracks. >> you just had stephen miller who was a mentee of a white supremacist, steven bannon, what do you make of the fact that in 2017 we have so many people inside of an administration who are on the record as opposing

not just unlawful migration but legal immigration, as we said, people who look like you and me coming into this country? >> it's shocking. the administration is clearly trying to turn back the clock 40 to 50 years but they can't because we have a separation of powers. we've got the courts that are doing their duty and protecting the constitution. we also have the people of america that every week or every other week do these amazing marches and demonstrations. it's so important that that happens because members of congress are watching. the president is watching and they now understand they don't have a mandate. >> yeah. >> and the populus movement opposing them is bigger than the small one. >> you have a controversial idea. you want to have a psychiatrist being inside the white house. what is that about? >> sure. many health professionals have started to go public. let me tell you what john garth n -- gartner said. he said donald trump is dangerously mentally ill. >> what does he base that on?

has he examined him? >> based on his watching of donald trump. let me tell you, what do i do with that as a member of congress? >> right. >> do i ignore that or do i raise the issues? i'm trying to say let's at least look at this. maybe there's inno issue there. i don't know what the solution is. that's why we're looking at this issue. i think it's important we don't hide this under the rug. i think there should be a discussion on it. >> have you at this point in his tenure, have you talked to donald trump personally? have you had any interaction with him? >> i have not and i'm okay with that. >> congressman ted lu -- follow him on twitter. you'll understand that he's really an expert. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> appreciate your time. coming up, north carolina has conducted their first missile test during the trump administration. we have the latest next. areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula

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north korea appeared to be testing donald trump for the first time since he took office. while the president was hosting japan's prime minister at his private club in florida, north korea launched a ballistic missile. it flew about 300 miles before falling into the sea of japan. at a late night joint press conference the prime minister of japan called that missile launch absolutely intolerable and donald trump added this. >> i just want everybody to understand and fully know that the united states of america stands behind japan, its great ally, 100%. thank you. >> according to reuters north korea said the launch was a, quote, show of force. it comes less than two days that trump said defending against missile threats against north korea is, quote, a very high priority. up next, immigration and

customs enforcement says there is no crackdown. donald trump says, yes, there is. stay with us. this is the silverado special edition. this is one gorgeous truck. oh, did i say there's only one special edition? because, actually there's 5. aaaahh!! ooohh!! uh! holy mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. which one's your favorite? come home with me! it's truck month! find your tag for an average total value over $11,000 on chevy silverado all star editions when you finance through gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer.

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we got married. one of my kids were born. where we were out to eat, with our community. she's a wonderful person. this is her country. this is my country. this is my kids' country. my wife is going to be here most of her life. yes, she was born in mexico but she's been living her whole life here. >> on saturday i spoke with the husband of the mexican born mother of two who was deported from phoenix, arizona, on thursday after living in the united states for more than 20 years. unfortunately, due to the apparent uptick in immigration

raids, her story is not unique. i'm joined by two people this morning. i want to start, congressman, asking if you have any updates on lupita's situation? >> unfortunately the update is that she has been deported. she is in the city of novalis. we have some nonprofits reaching out to her to settle in a foreign country. she has not lived in mexico since the age of 14. this is what donald trump has done to a woman who basically has, you know, two teenage kids, has no criminal history and this is just a tragedy that we're separating families. >> and, ari, as a legal matter, if somebody is deported and part of the reason why is that they were found to have used documents to work in the united states unlawfully, is there any possibility of them being able to lawfully come back? >> well, it's highly unlikely

because the punishment they're getting there is deportation rather than doing the time for the crime. it's theoretically possible over the long haul that if someone had that offense basically dealt with, in other words, cleared as a legal matter, which can happen, and then reapply, they could be processed for that, but it's highly unlikely. takes a long time and as you know, as you've reported, the larger question is where someone like this fits into priorities given the large number of undocumented immigrants that are in the country and what is good policy, which is both a legal and a policy question about how to deal with that. >> yeah, absolutely. and to that very point, there's a contradiction now apparently between the immigration and customs enforcement division and their boss, the president of the united states. let's read first of all what the i.c.e. statement was in response to the fear of all of the raids. they said i.c.e. regularly

conducts targeted enforcement operations during which additional resources and personnel are dedicated to apprehending deportable foreign nationals. that was gillian christensen. the spokesperson for the u.s. department of homeland security this week. now here is donald trump tweeting this very morning and he tweeted about an immigration crackdown. he said the crackdown on illegal criminals is merely the keeping of my campaign promise. gang members, drug dealers, and others are being removed. so, congressman, that does not appear to be in sync. what do you make of it? >> i think this is donald trump really executing his campaign plan. he's trying to be a tough guy so he's going to go after, you know, the maids, the moms, the people that are working in the shops instead of going after the hard core criminals. you know, of the 11 million undocumented, only 300,000 actually have felonies. her felony was gotten under a

very questionable method. it was ruled unconstitutional during racial profiling. at the end of the day what this is going to cause is a lot of distrust among the latino and immigrant community where they're not going to talk to the police, not tell you where the hard core criminals are and you're going to end up clogging up the immigration system because they're going to start using their due process and you're not going to be able to use this in a smart way to get out the criminals, the drug dealers. this is donald trump trying to be a tough guy and i.c.e. is in total denial. since they can't go after the hard core criminals, they're going to go after the easier targets to put points up on the board. that's unfortunate. these are american lives and families being separated. this is donald trump trying to show that he's a tough guy when in reality he has zero concept of what to do with immigration. >> ari, when we put up the map it includes georgia, illinois, new york, california, north

carolina, south carolina. that is an important point because you have the trump administration insisting that this is only about people who are dangerous. i want to let you listen to stephen miller who was on "meet the press" this morning and was asked about the question of deportation. this is what he said. >> you didn't answer the question. does -- do you and the president believe there's too much legal immigration? >> i think i look forward to us rolling out immigration reforms and i'll be able to announce very clearly when we do who those are. i think my views have been well discussed and well publicized and i'd love to have a conversation with you to get into great detail. >> that was me calling that sound bite inappropriate because that's not what we were looking if you. stephen miller is on the record for wanting to reduce legal immigration not unlawful migration. he goes on to say the american people should be glad that these raids are taking place because

they're saving lives by taking criminals off the street, but as we see with lupita, they're taking moms who checked in with i.c.e. and were deported as a result of doing what they were told to do. >> i think you explained it very well, joy. there can be a policy debate about how you prioritize this and who should be basically on the top of that list, and then beneath that here the factual debate over what's actually happening. as you just said and as you showed in the conflict between what i.c.e. claims, this is business as usual, and what the president who overzs i.c.e. claims, this is a big crackdown, it's leaving a lot more questions. we won't really have full answers until we get broader data over several months or a year to really put this all in context. i will say this, if it were the usual thing that prioritizes violent criminals and those engaged in criminal enterprises, racketeering, drug conspiracy, anything that is generally under federal rule considered more serious because you're doing

crimes with multiple other people and the crimes are about more than your unlawful status, then that would be normal and we would expect the data to be similar to years past and there has been an increase in i.c.e. raids, et cetera. if, however, there is something broader going on. if a lot of cases like this proliferate, then president trump's tweet, however exaggerated, would actually look more like it's carrying the data. somehow they're broadening the class of people that are being deported. the public safety part is different than the legal part. you can under u.s. law deport as congress has struggled many times including debates with republicans about whether there's a way to resolve that because it's not considered -- as most of you know, it's not considered realistic to remove all of those people even though as a legal matter it's technically allowed. the broader question then becomes what do you want to do about that? is this being done differently or not? the only other thing i'll want

to add that's kind of obvious and kind of concerning, from what we can tell, it seems that the president is repeatedly tweeting in response to media accounts of what the federal government does rather than gathering original information from the vast resources of federal government. in other words, he seems to be responding to the coverage of this particular story which we in reporting have noted we don't know whether this is an anecdote or -- he's acting this is the full report. you almost get the idea he's not reading the briefing zblorts that would be a story with what's aligning with what we're hearing. congressman, that would explain, maybe, the confusion that even some of the media now have as to what the administration's position is not just on unlawful migration but illegal immigration. the gang of eight, maybe they wouldn't. you have the hill saying, no, no, no, the trump administration says they're not open to any kind of gang of eight at all.

i bring us right back again to steven miller. he, steven bannon, some of these other alt right figures don't want to go after unlawful migration. they want to reduce illegal immigration. it feels like a target of legal white immigration. is congress ready to deal with an administration that wants to do that? >> let's begin by explaining what's happening in the white house. this is the most dysfunctional white house in this century and last century. there's too many camps and you have an unstable president that doesn't do his homework to begin with. number two, we're not ready to start trying to reduce legal immigration. it would be such a huge burden and a hit on our economy. look at some of the top ceos in this country. most of them are legal immigrants that have come in. our economy whether it's the work force, agricultural jobs, tech jobs, just in general anybody that comes to this country, they really contribute significantly to our gdp.

for us to think that we can stop talent and energy that's coming from all over the world i think is just a ridiculous idea. we should be worried when people stop wanting to come to the united states. that means things are going wrong. when things are going really well, especially when people are coming here through legal means, we should be proud of it and tap the energy. we should allow more people to come in to grow our economy, bring diversity and a richer culture to this country. the views that bannon and these guys have are totally backwards on this idea that -- of what america used to be and that's not where we're going. >> congressman, thank you very much. i want to continue to follow your fight on these matters. ari melber, thank you. you can see much more of ari tonight. he will be hosting right here on msnbc live from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. tune in. you don't want to miss that. up next, one of the many faces of the resistance.

the income dominable congresswo maxine waters will join me here. you don't want to miss it. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search and get free carfax reports at the all-new carfax.com. at clorox 2 we've turned removing stains into a science. now pre-treat with clorox 2! watch stains disappear right before your eyes. remove 4 times more stains than detergent alone.

can you tell us anything about -- >> no, it's classified and we can't tell you anything. all i can tell you is that the fbi director has no credibility. there's nothing about him that i would want to be involved with and certainly the inauguration is a way of welcoming in someone to the presidency and honoring them and respecting them. i don't honor him, i don't respect him and i don't want to be involved with him. i hope that, you know, this man and who he is, what he's done, the way that he's defined himself, the way that he's acting, i am hoping that we're able to reveal all of this and my greatest desire is to lead him right into impeachment. >> as the beleaguered democratic party finally seems to be finding its will to fight, one congresswoman has never backed

down. joining me now is the representative from california's great 43rd district, congresswoman maxine waters. >> good morning. >> thank you for being here. it's great being with you. >> delighted. >> it feels like the rest of the democratic party is catching up with you. >> yes. >> you've always had this fighting spirit. >> yes. >> the democratic party seems to be coming your way. what happened? >> i think so. i think they're beginning to understand that there have been so many lies, so many distortions by this president that something is wrong. something is there. they're believers, you know. >> as a woman in politics, a, were you surprised, pleasantly so likely because you're a democrat, that there wasn't more fire in american women, particularly white women, right, for a woman president? and that now there is this intensifier that really is being led in large part by women? >> well, i participated in the march in washington, d.c., and i was thrilled and the women there were thrilled.

i don't know what happened during the campaign. we didn't see that kind of enthusiasm, but they have turned out in large numbers now. they're not going to go away. they're providing leadership in opposing this president. >> i have to get your thoughts on the moral march you saw in north carolina. 80,000 people are estimate today have shown up. >> oh, yeah. >> this movement is not in california, this is all over the country. >> they've had some leadership in north carolina where they've had these moral mondays that have been going on for some time around the issues in that state and so now, you know, people are caught up with them and it's exploded. >> california i think is seen by a lot of people as the leader of the resistance. why is california so unique in the way that it is standing up to this president? it's full throated. >> well, you know, we are a progressive state. you saw what happened during the campaign. we came out big for hillary clinton. there was no question about where we stood and california's like that. as a matter of fact, the legislature now has organized to

resist trump in the state of california no matter what's going on in the rest of the country, we've decided that we're not going to be victims of his initiatives. we're not going to take his executive orders. we're not going to sit down while he's running over this country. yes, we're going to provide the leadership. >> you have gone all the way there -- >> yes. >> -- using the i word with donald trump about impeachment. >> yes. >> do you stand by that and what would he be impeached for? >> yes, i have been talking about impeachment. some people say, it's too early for that. it's never too early if you understand how dangerous this man really is. i do believe that there is a connection between ukraine and donald trump and of course russia. i think that he colluded with putin during the election and the hacking and everything that took place. i think that it's there, we just have to dig deeper, do the investigation and find it. >> i want to give you a chance to listen to sean spicer, the

spokesman for the president, press secretary responding to your use of the "i" word. this was sean spicer when he was asked about it. >> yes. yes. >> quick question. any response to the calls for impeachment by representative maxine waters? >> no. i would just say, look, i think, look, it is -- the president is doing everything he can to move this country forward and i think whether it's the democrats in the senate who are trying to stall these nominees or these little political stunts on the house side, the bottom line is by and large you see the support the president is receiving for his policies throughout the country. >> what do you think? >> well, nobody takes him seriously anyway. as a matter of fact, "saturday night live" really did portray him just about as he is. i mean, he is an embarrassment even to trump and so i don't

know how long he's going to last, but let's have fun with him while he's there. >> do you think that, you know, in all seriousness when a lot of conservatives or republicans who reluctantly voted for donald trump, they said to me, the checks and balances will make sure that anything doesn't go completely off the rails. congress thus far, at least the republican side of congress, has notinclination to check this president. do you see any time in the house leadership or republican leadership that at some time they will join you and say, we're going to rein him in? >> i do. i know that many of them have been hesitant because he is the president. they don't really want to cross him too soon, but let me tell you, keep your eye on john mccain. watch what john mccain and lindsey are doing. they are going to dig deep. they've indicated they wanted tougher sanctions on russia.

this president came into the office saying that he wanted to lift the sanctions on russia. well, you know, from time to time he backs up, he changes, we don't really know, but we -- i do know that john mccain is fixed on him and russia and this issue of what he was doing during our elections and the dnc, the hacking and all of that. so i'm very optimistic that they're not going to let him go as far as he thinks he may go. as a matter of fact, the other thing that i'm relying on is even though i don't agree with them sometimes, you know, the second thing is i'm very ploe gres sie -- progressive. they're very democratic. when you talk about russia undermining our democracy, the more they find out about who did it, what was the role, all of that, i think you're going to see republicans coming online to say, wait just a minute, enough is enough. >> did it surprise you that they

both supported rex tillerson, voted for him? >> no, i'm not surprised. i think what they did is they supported all of his nominees because they wanted to send a message. this is not personal. >> yes. >> we'll go along with some of what he's doing, but don't be fooled by that. >> yes. >> i think that they're coming after him. >> i have to ask you as a woman of color that's been in this congress, the presence of steven bannon in the white house, the presence of stephen miller knowing their views and backgrounds and the elevation of jefferson sessions to the attorney general, what do you make of that? does it make you uncomfortable to know that they're there in the white house? >> this president has been sounding the dog whistles to them. of course i'm uncomfortable, but this is a fight that many of us have had to have throughout our careers and our lives. we're not going to back up. we're going to fight them because we know their histories, we know their backgrounds and we

know what they have done. they are guilty of all kinds of discriminatory actions and so we're going to fight against them. we're going to push back. that's what we have to do. >> would you take a meeting if steven bannon was in the meeting? >> i don't think so. i'm not prepared to meet with the white house or any of his cabinet at this point. i think it is not comfortable for me to sit down with people that i know don't like me, don't respect me, don't respect my culture, don't respect my people. so i'm hesitant to meet with any of them at this point. let's have the fights -- let's have the confrontation, and if -- because they're leadership, that they want to show that they mean well, that they didn't -- they're uncomfortable with what they've done -- >> do you think jeff sessions could do something. >> sessions is a throw back. this man comes to the senate and

he's the same man now that he was when he came to the senate. he's a throw back. basically he has been documented to be racist and so i don't expect him to be any different. what i'm really worried about is this. he does not believe that the attorney general should be involved with the police -- local police stations. >> right. >> and departments. well, that's a problem. if we had not been involved, the attorney general with what went on in ferguson, we never would have seen any change take place there. there are many troubled police stations and police departments throughout this country, and i'm not here to say they're all bad, but there are problems. the justice department needs to be in touch with them to help them get over some of what they've been doing in order to have, you know, justice for all of the people in their jurisdictions. >> congresswoman, maxine waters. thank you for welcoming us to your fair state. we are happy to be here in california with you. we know you'll keep fighting.

>> thank you. i'm really appreciative for you. >> appreciate you. coming up in our next hour, a star studded "am joy" continues. rob ryner and will withers will join us. ♪ i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan.

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as you know, i approved two pipe lines that were stuck in limbo forever. i don't even think it was controversial. i proved to them, i haven't heard -- i haven't had one call from anybody saying, oh, that was a terrible thing you did. i haven't had one call. again, usually if i do something it's like bedlam, right?

i haven't had one call from anybody. >> so there's a really good reason for that. when you call the white house comment line, this is what you get. >> thank you for calling the white house comment line. the comment line is currently closed. >> see? he hasn't gotten one comment. the white house promised that it would seek input and come up with a deal that benefitted all parties, but on wednesday when the army issued a permit to resume construction of the pipeline, one interested party had still not been consulted. the standing rock sioux tribe. in fact, the chairman was at the very moment flying to d.c. to meet with trump administration officials, a meeting that never, in fact, happened. the white house did not respond to our request for comment but joining me now by phone from cannonball, north dakota, is chairman dave archambault.

let's talk about the meeting that was supposed to take place. what happened? >> thank you, joy. i was trying to meet with anybody in the white house, anybody under the trump administration just to hear our side before any decisions were made, and i think that's important for any leader to be well informed on any issue, any matter. and we had a -- i finally got through once, somebody from the department of interior was placed and i said i need to meet with somebody in the white house. it was with william kirkland, intergovernmental affairs. he said let's schedule a meeting for the following weeks. he said what days will work? i'm available monday through wednesday. i said, i need to meet as soon as possible. mon is perfect. i started scheduling my flight. he called me back and said i can't meet with you monday, wednesday is the only day that works. on that monday we had a status conference call with the judge and the judge had asked the

department of justice when the -- they were going to make a decision on the presidential memorandum to push the easement through. they said they won't decide at the earliest friday. this is all this past week. so friday i figured i had time if i got to meet with him, one last push to meet with anybody that would listen. as soon as i landed i got the word that the decision had been made. i feel like i got sleighted. >> we know there has been a lawsuit filed by the cheyenne sioux tribe. they have a hearing for a temporary injunction on monday. this is the statement from echb energy transfer partners. they made this statement on thursday. we've started the drill to go beneath lake oahi. we look forward to having the pipeline in service in

approximately 83 days. str connected to or joined to the cheyenne river sioux tribe suit? >> so we have to be cautious and careful. without hearing our side, the administration not knowing really what's going on. we knew exactly what they were doing. the department of armies started drafting 110 page memo in response to our -- anticipating some temporary restraining orders coming forward. they submitted that to the judge and this outlines what they've done. they've anticipated our argument. what they've done is filed a temporary restraining order on the basis of freedom of religion which doesn't take away from what we're going to do as far as summary judgment. >> right. >> first off for the environmental review. we are going to join the cheyenne river sioux tribe. i'm sure they will join us with the summary judgment.

we're looking for an expedited schedule so it will resolve all of this. it's unfortunate no one wants to do it. >> absolutely, very quickly. the last question. there's a statement that was issued by standing rock sioux asking people not to come to standing rock and instead exercise your first amendment rights, take your fight to your congressman. you do not want more protestors to come to sandy rock, what we're concerned about is the safety of people. as people come, it will be very hard to clean the area. we do not want to be the contaminators of the river. so we're working very hard to clean where the camp was. it will complicate things if people start moving into that space especially with the threat of a flood. >> yeah, absolutely. sir, thank you very much.

chairman david archambault. we'll keep up and stay on this story. thank you very much. good luck in your legal challenges. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, you think steve bannon is content running the country? his next fight might be with the pope. so much more "am joy" to come.

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our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia ♪ we have a bloody kochb sult and if the people do not bind together and form what i feel is an aspect of the church militants to really not just stand with our beliefs but to fight for our beliefs against this new barbaracy that's starting that we will literally eradicate everything that we've been bequeathed over the last

2500 years. >> welcome back to "am joy." so running the country may not be enough for steve bannon who ran breitbart.com, let's never forget that. in his 2014 speech delivered via skype to a conference at the vatican, bannon spelled out his dire vision of what he thinks should be the mission of the roman catholic church. now the new york times reports that bannon who is catholic is aligning himself with people who oppose the progressive direction pope francis is taking the church. the times reports that, quote, in mr. trump and more directly in mr. bannon some self-described radical traditional lists at the vatican see an alternate leader who will stand up for traditional christian values and against muslim interlopers. my co-author of my book and

father james martin, editor of "america" magazine. i'm going to start out with father martin. steve bannon is not known for his religious views, more on his racial views. talk about this sect that he seems to have roused? >> the groups of radical traditional lists or rad trads they sometimes call themselves. they are opposing pope francis's, as you said, progressive reforms. they pine for the days when the church was purer and a lot of them do see the church as engaged in a kind of battle against the muslim world which i think is unfortunate. pope francis talked about the church as a field hospital, a place where people could come in and be healed and his imagery

and my imagery is not a church under seas. >> it sounds like a lot of the way the alt right views vladimir putin. >> yes. >> standing up for traditional vau use against gay rights, lgbt rights and willing to take the fight to the islamic world. it sounds very similar. >> it is very similar. actually the same. i would say this. steve bannon may have been able, has been able to turn donald trump into a puppet. i think the pope is out of his league. i don't think that's going to happen. and so, look, we all know the pope is about peace. he believes in climate change. he believes in building bridges not walls and while -- while the church has a lot of work to do with the lgbq community, he wants to bring peace and steve

bannon is a white supremacist. he co-author the band, muslim band with someone who worked for a known racist, jeff sessions, it goes on and on. he's also a conspiracy theorist which is what all of this is. >> the pope is also latino which is an interesting dynamic. you wrote a great column, steve bannon versus pope francis. i want to have you talk about your sort of overall theory of bannon and the pope but also i want to ask you, and maybe we can get everyone in on it after you're done, about this guy -- he's known for fashionism and traditionallism. talk about your big thesis on bannon v the pope.

>> bannon meant with cardinal raymond burke, a real foe of the pope and according to an account from that meeting bonding with this opponent of the pope when he visited the vatican in 2014, has a great story on this kind of croteau fascist thinker. you mentioned putin, by the way, at that event, steve bannon also said at least putin is standing up for traditional institutions and he's trying to do it in a form of nationalism. now bannon did call the regime there cleptocratic and while we're talking about michael flynn, we have to look at steve bannon's attitude towards putin as well. i think you have this fundamental clash the vatican actually was very close to, supported in a broad sense the foreign policy of barack obama. john kerry, former secretary of

state had a very good meeting with pope right before the administration ended and so i think you're going to see a real big set of differences. one set of numbers i want to underscore. to the extent that bannonism highlights, if you will, the euro american part of the world, 68% of the world's catholics are in latin america, africa and asia. so the people is -- this will lead to a clash with trump. >> very important point. for people who are not familiar with bannon's world view, he's actually played it out in his desire to be a filmmaker. let's play a dplip a movie he'd made in 2016. is bill robertson you may know

from duck dynasty, let's take a look at that clip. >> beyond donald trump and outside of that, the father tempted him. from this calamity down through the ages man shakes his fist at his creator and said, i decide what's right and wrong. >> father martin, is there a discomfort within the church, within other priests with this sort of using church teaching and sort of turning it into racial and ethnic politics. >> i'll say. there's discomfort when any part of the church is used to phone in racist, misogynistic, xenophobic sentiments. it's important to say jesus in the gospel of matthew talks about welcoming the stranger, talks about helping the hungry,

feeding the naked. there is no other. it's not us versus them. jesus is about welcoming the marginalized, the people who are strangers and poor and making them into an us and i think unfortunately a lot of this church militant language is really divisive and setting up walls not bridges. it's against what john paul said and what benedict said. steve bannon is anti-pope francis. he's anti-pope benedict and anti-pope john paul. all of these people were about economic justice, migrants and refugees. >> i think we could even say antichurch, right? because he's pushing this. he's here in the united states pushing this wheat supremacy, nationalist, now he's takings it to a world view.

if you look at how diverse and how many people are catholics, i think steve bannon sees this as a way to control his own message on a national worldwide level. >> and he is pushing it all through europe. as much as we see pope francis as a new kind of turn -- as we see him, he said in what sounded like implicit criticism, i exist to build walls and not bridges. a christian would never say you will pay for that, never. that is not a christian gesture. that is what's made a lot of people fall in love with pope francis, but the church itself has a history and in reputations of being being very, very conservati conservative. is there any constituencies that

they legalized-realized -- >> it's a combination of radicals and traditional lists. he is profoundly catholic in his embrace of traditional catholic devotions and the like. what you've seen in the american church, i think you're going to see a very interesting argument in the coming years inside the american church because the american church has leaned more conservative since the 1990s, a leadership of the church has, but two things are happening. you have new bishops and cardinals being appointed by pope francis who are far more intuned with the progressive side. you have a lot of moderately conservative bishops who say i may not be comfortable with everything pope francis has.

i think you're setting up an interesting new argument inside catholicism where trump really challenges some of the conservative pitch shops who don't agree with a lot of this anti-immigrant, anti-refugee politics. >> you know, father martin, i'm old enough to remember when the little sisters of the poor went to court against the obama administration's contraception mandate and you had what appeared to be a friction between the obama administration and the church over things like abortion, does immigration wind up pulling the politics, if you will, in the other direction? because we know that, you know, shielding the immigrants are a big part of the catholic teaching? on topics like migrants and refuge refugees, the church has been in the forefront. catholic relief services, jesuit

relief services, the church is on the ground. in the united states it's such a great proportion of immigrants, catholic. they want to stand up in terms of gospel values and church tradition but also stand up for people in the parishes. you'll see the bishop and individual bishops over the past few weeks have been very vocal about the need to stand for and with migrants and refugees. >> bannonism will have a fight on his hand worldwide. thank you all. really appreciate it. >> good to be with you. >> my pleasure. >> thank you. happy sunday, everyone. coming up, rob reiner is angry about the trump/putin bromance is getting and how much time it's in the media. priority boarding...

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what do you think of reports that general flynn, the conversation with the russians about the sanctions. >> i don't know about it. i haven't seen it. what report is that? >> there are a number of reports -- >> i haven't -- >> reporting that -- >> i haven't seen that. i'll look at that. >> that was donald trump on friday claiming ignorance about one of the biggest veg developing stories in his own administration. my next guess says that the media should not be letting him get away with it. joining me is rob reiner. that appears to be a lie. >> does that surprise you? >> at this point, you know, nothing surprises me anymore. it appears at least according to

robert costa, trump is well aware of this and spoken to friends about t. why would he lie about knowing about this? >> because he's a pathological liar. what's interesting here is that we really have a test and we are being tested as to whether or not our democracy is going to survive. we have somebody who's mentally unstable who is a pathological liar. there's no getting around that. who's running our country. and if we can survive this, that will strengthen us in a strange way. what you're seeing all over the country with protests, nif never been through anything like it in the '60s when i protested against the vietnam war. this is everyone. it's not just people worried about being killed in vietnam, this is everyone. and so we're looking at a cancer

presidency we cannot allow to spread. we have so much breaking of laws that it can get you off guard and not only being that, but the media being attacked and fake news as being marginalized. i thank you for being who you are and there are only a handful of you who are doing real journalism and looking at the truth. because of that we cannot be distracted by the single one thing that will take this president down and that is his connection to russia. >> you seem to believe that is of a separate peace. that came up to the fore. michael flynn talked to nine sources which is incredible in and of itself, nine sources.

he did talk about sanctions. i want to play with you what's happening around the trump administration in terms of whether they're being sent out to talk about things that are not true. this is mike pence talking on face the nation on january 15th. let's take a listen to mike pence then. >> on christmas day he sent a text to the russian ambassador to express not only christmas wishes but sympathy for the lives lost in the airplane crash. those conversations that happened to occur around the time that the united states took action to expel diplomats had nothing to do with those sanctions. >> but that's the possibility that there might have been other conversations about the sanctions. >> yeah. i don't believe there were more conversations. >> okay. okay. >> so he said that had nothing to do with those sanctions. he's saying, i relied on that. >> either mike pence is lying or flynn is lying. there's no gray area here. >> yes.

>> and my guess is that mike pence is probably lying and if he isn't, then he's going to be -- got to be furious at flynn. now this goes deeper than flynn talking to some russian ambassador. these calls are monitored. this man, flynn, was the head of the russian intelligence agency. he knows full well that any communication between an american and the russian ambassador is monitored -- >> yes. >> -- by many intelligence agencies so he knows he's being heard. and if he's talking about lifting sanctions as a quid pro quo, this thing is going to be farr deeper than that. we're going to look back into this campaign. it's right there in front of us. that's what's really frustrating for us watching this. we're seeing the child run into the street and the truck is coming and we -- we have to pull

that child out of the street before it gets hit by the truck. we're seeing it. we're seeing who's now the president of the united states go on television and ask the russians to hack us. that -- nixon was thrown out of office for trying to cover up some dirty political tricks. >> right. yes. >> this is a man who's actually saying, let's engage in espionage. so these connections between paul manafort, carter page, roger stone and michael flynn, we're going to find out as time goes by because they may try to scrub this stuff, they may try to wipe the communications clean but those communications exist. they exist and they will come out. once they come out, i guarantee you republicans are not going to stand by when impeachment is put on the table. >> well, that is the question i wanted to actually get to. right where i wanted to go.

it doeshlt seem as much as the republican party has been aligned about russia, it doesn't seem like there is much of a stomach to go after the trump administration even with michael flynn apparently currently being investigated. why do you suppose that isn't there? is it too early in the administration? >> well, i think if they can isolate michael flynn as an outlier, as a bad actor they can either diminish his role or fire him but this isn't going to go -- this is going to go past michael flynn. it's up to you guys to keep the pressure on. once it gets past michael flynn and it starts connecting literally back to trump, to phone calls that trump had with than for the, with page after they had communications with certain diplomats and operatives inside of russia, then i think you're going to see republicans,

even republicans, not just john mccain and lindsey graham, others are goings to say, this is a bridge too far. i will not take myself over the cliff to defend a brutal dictator that murders journal lists. >> we're talking about the democrats. they didn't have much of a voice. obviously they didn't have a strategy. they do seem to be coalescing around what they see around them. the question i have is whether or not they're making the connection back to politics. whether or not the action out on the streets, the anger over russia, michael flynn is going to translate into taking back power? do you see evidence of that? >> not yet but it will happen. what you're seeing is unprecedented. three weeks you're seeing push back, town halls, on the streets, at airports, nothing like it. now it is up to leaders, people

in the media, i'm including myself in this, to harness that so that it isn't a loose occupy wall street that goes nowhere. it isn't just a million moms martha goes nowhere. >> yes. >> it now has to be galvanized, weaponized. i use weaponized as a strength, not a physical thing with guns, but to be able to gall vannize that it is up to us to capture some of those seats and that will be done. that will be done with help from a lot of people. >> i have to ask one california question. what is it about california? california seems to be the nexus of the fight, right? there are a lot of other states, north carolina has a lot going on in a lot of states. why is california so particularly strong in its sympathy to donald trump and its fight against donald trump? >> because if you look at california, even though we're called a blue state, we are the most diverse, we are the biggest

economy, sixth largest economy in the world and we are the epitome of democracy. it is the mixture of every stripe of -- walk of life in this country. we are the extension of democracy and what democracy will look like and i don't -- we have rural areas. >> zble we have red areas, we have all of that but yet we are moving towards the right thing. if you look at some of the policies that we've put in place, they're in the forefront of what is adopted around the country. >> absolutely. the states where rob reiner and john dean almost agreed. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. up next, alec baldwin's portrayal of donald trump on "saturday night live" that a newspaper in the dominican

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be up for it. i want to say i appreciate all the fierce debates around. elizabeth warren came at me like a pocket mask but then my friend mitch mcconnell swooped in like an alligator. we all know there are two prongs. >> is there anyone that kate mckinnon can't play? no. she added attorney general jefferson sessions to her repertoire and melissa mccarthy made her much anticipated second appearance as sean spicer. this time literally following in

kellyanne conway's footsteps. >> and then nordstrom decided to stop selling ivanka trump's line of clothing and accessories. okay, and this is nordstrom's because these are high, high quality products. in fact, i'm wearing one of her bangles right now. it's beautiful. its a shimmer jie. it's elegant and it's $39.99 it is unbelievably affordable, okay? and don't even get me started on her shoes. because these babies are real head turners. >> and of course there was this week's host, alec baldwin as the president himself. >> this is the plaintiff, the presiden president of the united states. he claims phony judges are being mean to him. >> mr. trump, you understand

this is a tv court. >> that's okay, i'm a tv president. thank you, judge, what do you call a lady judge, a flight attendant? i signed a tremendous travel ban. people took pictures of me holding up the paper, very official. these judges have been very disrespectful. i might be wrong. i want the ruling re-established -- the ban reinstated. also i want $725. >> up next, the snl skits last night that have republicans crying foul. what exactly is the role of pop culture in a reality show presidency? stay with us. please? ugh. that's unfortunate. there's a better option. the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just airline purchases. seems like a no-brainer. what's in your wallet?

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we can't have you on tv if you're going to keep lying. >> okay, fine, i'll do something else. i'll do something really crazy. i'll do a free commercial for ivanka's shoes live on air. do you like that, baby?

>> no, that's illegal. >> oh, my god! >> all right. that skit last night on "saturday night live" but the kate mckinnon playing kellyanne conway has people extremely uncomfortable. other people think it was hilarious. we're going to debate it with the perfect panel to discuss "saturday night live" and comedy in pop culture's role. joining me stephanie miller and comedian and pop culture pundant frangela. thank you for being here. >> okay. we have to talk about the skit. start with you, stephanie. funny or over the line? >> is there any over the line? >> is there? that is the question. >> we can tell you as comedians when the white house says melissa mccartney needs to dial it back, we're turning it up to 11. have you ever seen melissa

mccarthy's work. >> kate mckinnon playing jefferson sessions. kate mckinnon playing that role, being kellyanne conway. you had leslie jones playing donald trump. that is sort of the ultimate troll because he doesn't like the women playing the men. we're going to play that in a minute. i want to get your thoughts on it. >> i love it. it is heavenly. it is the most blissful thing in the world to know we're annoying them. >> is the goal to annoy the trump team or make a point? >>ing you have to make a point because it is satire, satirical, that's what snl is. yes, we're here. we have a voice and we're going to speak about the things that we see going on and we're going to bring it in a funny way so that america can laugh. >> does it make it more delicious, using that word, knowing that donald trump is watching it because he can't stop. >> the fact that he didn't comment that's when you know that is great satire.

that drew blood. it does make the larger point. it's not just mocking him, it is pointing out that he is not a legitimate president as john lewis and brave congress people said, maxine waters. he was not legitimately elected and he deserves the scorn, race i mea ism and sexism, he deserves it. it is fair game. >> they say if persuasion is the goal then what the left is doing by constantly mocking the right, mocking the administration, mocking donald trump and his theme is not persuading people who may be comfortable but are conservative. it's mocking them. is that a fair point? >> i think we are comedians.sat. what we can do because we don't have a lot of other skills, i'll admit that. >> funny. >> we can make the funny. >> yeah.

>> you're doing it with people who literally make up massacres. you can't do that to us and think we're not going to say something about it. >> oh, my goodness. we're going to send it out. we have to. >> it's interesting. we've come off a presidency, barack obama who is hilarious when he's telling jokes but isn't necessarily easy to mock. is there a pent up desire in the world of comedy to say, you know what, now we have an administration that's easier to joke with? >> president obama was fantastic for america, horrible for comedians. they're like, man -- there's no there there. too much confidence, too much eloquence. i mean, the stuff here, it's almost -- defies parody when you see the home shopping thing. kellyanne conway pretty much did that home shopping thing. it is almost hard to parody. >> you did have some women in the media, olivia newsy from daily beast tweeting, hey, wait a minute, it was sexist to do a fatal attraction skit against

kellyanne conway and it is going to help her and help the administration because they'll inoculate her from saying she was mocked in a sexist way. >> a bunch of snowflakes. we were whiney babies who couldn't take critique. >> i think it was funny. i think it's a point that she is a spokesperson for this. she is out there selling the misogyny and jewelry. >> let's talk about leslie jones. equally hilarious night last night. she did a skit in which she has her desire to portray one donald trump. let's take a look. >> not going happen. >> all right. i mean, i understand. i understand. can i have a minute please? >> who says no to me?

[ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. people keep casting me as somebody who always yells. >> too much? >> no. >> perfect. >> perfect. >> no, is it funny because it's now known that donald trump hates to have men portrayed by women or is it funny because people need the catharsis of seeing -- >> i think by next week this is going to be benny hill. and the ratings are at all-time highs, i jjoy. you know that's going to kill him. when is it going to be canceled? no time soon. >> the other thing you've seen, not just in skit comedy, comic

on last night for the new yorker, you are seeing the renaissance of comedy under trump is that resistance or is it taking advantage of the opportunities that are in front of you guys? >> comedians always step out first. we will draw the line of fire and, you know, making people laugh. you're putting yourself out there. that's what comedians do. >> yes. it's our responsibility otherwise we can pile jokes about being over weight. we can talk about the social and political issues in a way that gets to the people. >> you have already on the super bowl side, half a dozen new england patriots saying they're not going to the super bowl. you have vanity fair and others pulling out of the white house correspondents dinner. should the comedians participate in the correspondent's dinner? >> i don't think so. i'm not for normalizing this presidency to give it any legitimacy because it has none, joy. we're about to launch the sexy liberal resistance tour.

i have to. we have to answer the call. comedians must serve. >> the sexy little zsh the sexy liberal comedy story is hilarious so it's going to be fun. same question to you. do you think a comediancorrespo? >> only if you agree. >> you're saying dennis miller should do it? >> that's the only option. >> he don't get that much work anymore. i don't think he can avoid a boycott. >> you said it. >> all right. we are out of time. i hear in my ear which could be the voice of -- it's our live producer. thank you and we'll look for you. coming up at noon, polar opposites. what we can expect from donald trump's meeting with canada's prime minister justin trudeau tomorrow. up next, one of my favorite musical icons, bill withers.

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♪ ♪ music's biggest event has arrived. the 59th grammy awards kick off tonight here in los angeles. no aspect of pop culture is left untoucheded by politics these days, of course, and this year's nominees include some outspoken stars from beyonce whose formation provided an anthem of resistance and on black life in the south to chance the rapper who led thousands of his concert goers to the polls ahead of the presidential election. there are few platforms bigger than the grammys.

so will tonight's speeches or songs get political? joining me now to talk music and politics is multiple grammy award-winner and hall of famer bill withers. so good to see you. >> you, too! >> you've won eight in 1972 and won again for just the two of us in 1982 and multiple grammy award winner. give us what you think will happen tonight. do you think the artists will use that moment when they win to get political? >> some of them might and some of them might not because they might not want to get in trouble, you know? >> what do you mean? worried about part of their audience? >> they may not want to use that time to do that. i don't know. it will be interesting, though. >> you have, in your time known some fierce fighters including, of course, muhammad ali and there are people that are unabashedly political and didn't worry about their fans. if you were active in music today would you use your

platform to fight donald trump? >> i don't know, you know. there are activists and there are illustrators. illustrators are the people who write about it. activists are people like harry belafonte that go down there, you know, and get hit in the head and stuff. >> yeah. >> i would -- it's a prominent subject, so i would probably try to say something about it maybe, but you know, i'm from coal mining country, west virginia, and i look, and i look at this whole thing and this guy was smart enough to speak to people who were predisposed to hear what he had to say. >> yeah. >> now you know, my father was a coal miner. i'm the only man in my family that warrant a coal miner, and they want to believe they were predisposed to believe, you know, so really now is a time of

shifting the position of somebody's predisposition. >> how hard is it to do that? that's not easy. if somebody wants to believe that donald trump will bring back coal mining jobs, then i would doubt in a way, that lots of demonstrations go along on people that look down on them culturally anyway will change their mind. >> right, but that's the brilliance of people. very few people can change people's minds, see? >> yeah. >> and now activism is hard because where do you go? it was easy when you knew go down here, there will be a big march through birmingham, martin luther king is doing a thing. >> yeah, but now the way the world is shaped you have people like judge mathis and jim brown who do direct, hands-on manipulation of these young people. in fact, jim used to live near me. >> jim brown went to see trump. he went to trump tower.

>> that's interesting, see? so it's hard to nail it down. wait a minute, joy, on the way over here i wrote down my definition of the time. am i allowed to do that? >> absolutely. you're allowed to do whatever you want, bill withers. >> i'm going to give you my description of today. >> okay. >> the times we are living in now could aptly be described as synonymous with a slang description of someone who has intimate relations with someone's mother. >> you need to explain that to the audience, bill withers. >> no, they'll get it. as soon as -- somebody will go, what did he say? >> i hope people dvred that because you'll need to rewind and understand that. you'll need to understand that. >> i was proud of myself. i didn't come here on a scholarship, but that's pretty good manipulation, see? >> yeah. >> it goes back to my word,

predisposition. people predisposeded on on. >> to believe what they believe. >> let's talk about the artists, whether it's persuasion or not, what they're doing is a kind of activism within their music. bruce springsteen, interesting you come from coal country and this is a guy from a working-class background whose music represents working-class america back in the 2006 grammys when george w. bush was in office and troops were still fighting in iraq springsteen shouted bring 'emhome and walked off the stage. you have frank ocean, a popular hip-hop r and b artist boycotting the grammys saying it's a colin kaepernick moment. you have people who are already making statements and people like kanye who are trying to get to a position on donald trump. do you think we have more illustrators or more activors or

activists right now? >> where do you go? it's more or less being an illustrator. i'll give you an example. one of my songs, "i can't write left-handed." i never was in vietnam. marvin gay did "what's going on," marvin did eight months in the air force and they kicked him out because they thought he was nuts. those are illustrators. activists are guys that get out there like judge mathis and jim brown, guys that get out there and actually put their hands on these people and try to change their minds. >> yeah. >> so usually it's lumped into one thing. they call them activists. bob dylan, william zinger killed poor heidi carol, do you remember that song? >> yeah. i might have to google that. >> see? i gave you something to do now. i'm proud of myself. >> i have homework. bill withers, thank you. >> i don't know what we talked

about, but i sure had a good time. >> people have it on dvr and they'll rewind it. be sure to join us next week for more "a.m. joy," i can't promise it will be this star studded, but it will be amazing. sarah sanders at the top of the hour. has been a struggle. i considered all my options with my doctor, who recommended once-daily toujeo®. now i'm on the path to better blood sugar control.

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...stop clicking around...travel sites to find a better price... the lowest prices on our hotels are always at hilton.com. so pay less and get more only at hilton.com. good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it is high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west and day 23 of the trump administration with the first critical international test for this white house, north korea launching a ballistic missile. in minutes, new reaction to the timing and potential threat that country poses to the u.s. and reaction to the impromptu statements from president trump and the japanese leader after their summit in florida. meanwhile, the administration's message today carried on almost all of the sunday talk shows by a key advisers with some