national security adviser michael flynn is out at the nsa. his depture comes amid ongoing reports that he discussedasing sanctions with the russian ambassador and russian ambassador. then according to a senior official misled vice president and other senior administration officials about the nature of these conversations. that caused a concern he might be susceptible to blackmail. in a resignation released by the white house, flynn wrote in part this, quote, unfortunately because of the fast-paced events i inadvertently briefed the vice president and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls to the russian ambassador. i have sincerely apologized to the president and vice president and they have accepted my apology. a senior official tells nbc news the president and advisers have been, quote, agonizing over what to do about flynn for days. but ultimately the situation

became unsustainable, not because of a sanctions but because he had lied to the president and vice president. and a source close to the president says that it was the vice president himself who was a driver behind flynn's exit last night. good morning, everyone. tuesday february 14th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on this very big news morning political analyst and co-author of game change mark halperin, council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disai ray" richard haass. columnist david ignatius and pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham. good morning, everyone. >> good morning. mark halperin, a lot to unpack here. quickly, what are the big headlines here? >> almost everyone i knew thought from the day donald trump named general flynn that his days were numbered for a variety of reasons, including

his ties to russia. that will continue to be investigated just because he departed. the people the president is considering are strong names to rebuild the national security team and overall national security team that does need repair. it does raise questions about the president's judgment and whous counsel that knew about this allegation he could be blackmailed. whether he did something or not, most people who had that job would have resigned had nothing been done about it. >> mika, you've been saying all along michael flynn will be the first to go. you started saying it before he was sworn in. you said michael flynn will be out first. >> i think this is good news for those who are concerned this white house has people not really cut out for their jobs and perhaps leading the president astray. flynn had a too tight relationship with donald trump. that also raised questions about the relationship with russia

which still remains a big question. >> richard haass, the names floated would be extraordinary trade ups and would be strong policy team. >> all military. reinforces the sense you're going to have a military perspective. two, you've got crowded white house. you've got strategist, now young mr. miller, jared kushner. the question is what will be the real authority of this person? will you bring in 150 republicans, natural foreign policy that would staff administration has been excluded. neither secretary of defense or secretary of state has a deputy, nearly everybody else. yes, these are all trade ups. i agree with you. there are bigger questions. is donald trump willing to empower his new natio security adviser, which i would argue is necessary if donald trump is going to be a

successful foreign policy president. >> willie, chaos in the white house, we're going to get to it in a minute, kellyanne conway yesterday saying flynn had the full confidence of the president and sean spicer once again had to go out and clean things up. >> a few hours later. that's when you knew something was coming, imminent. this is a significant loss to donald trump. flynn was one of his earliest advisers, supporters. went and put his neck out for him during the campaign and sat at his right-hand in terms of foreign policy. a lot of decisions he made were informed by michael flynn. that will change now. the question remains, if the president knew about this several weeks ago, last month, knew his nsa could have been blackmailed, why didn't they do anything sooner. >> it goes to the point you made all along, there are ways they

will get back at you. when you criticize intelligence agencies. >> it's so obvious. david ignatius, we've been warning this president and general flynn on the air for months that you go after the intel community, the intel community will go after you. they are the last people you want to go after. general flynn declared war on the intel community. white house caused sally yates of the justice department of betrayal. suddenly we read in the newspaper cascade of stories that actually led up to this point. the dismissal of general flynn and sally yates, the one accused of betrayal, actually being the one who warned them a month ago. >> joe, i think while that mar tiff obviously is compelling, i

think it's wrong to think of this as payback. this really was about loss of trust on the part of general flynn and particularly with vice president pence, a central person in this administration. general flynn's problem was there was a record of the calls that he made with the russian ambassador kislyak and the record became known to acting attorney general and others in the administration and they felt they had an obligation to tell the white house counsel, and they did. the issue -- yes, there's been a lot of friction between trump and the intelligence community. i don't think that's what this is about. >> no. that's not the headline here. but jon meacham, we talk about it every four to eight years. a new white house comes in, they walk through the gates. they believe they are the first people to crack the code and they go in with a level of arrogance that is soon stripped

away very quickly. if you take on the acting attorney general, if you take on the cia, if you take on the intel community, if you declare war against everybody, well, don't expect them not to punch back. yes. you accuse sally yates of betrayal, i'm sorry, it's just the ways of washington it happens to be sally yates whose story gets told to the "washington post" warning them a month ago about this. by the way, that is the headline they were warned a month ago and didn't act on it. >> right. seems to me the news reinforces two central concerns about the new president. one is the free wheeling style is not commensurate with the gravity of the task of governing the country. the second is the entire overarching set of questions about russia and this perpetual issue where vladimir putin and

russia, now the ambassador, appear as these persistent characters. the question which everybody has been asking on social media, howard baker question about what did the president know and when did he know it, does seem there's significant questions to be answered about president trump's relationship, nonrelationship himself. >> mika, who knew in the white house, when did they know in the white house and why was the vice president of the united states kept in the dark and allowed to go on television and lie and have anybody go to him who knew in the white house that he had been pushed out to lie. the only reason we're finding out about it now is because a patriot did leak this to the "washington post," did get this information out there or else we wouldn't even have known about it. why was mike pence kept in the

dark when the white house counsel knew about it, and he was september out to lie? who knew? was mike pence the only person in the white house let in the dark. the white house counsel had to know. the president of the united states had to know. certainly the justice department knew. if the acting attorney general knew, did sessions know? there has to be a very long list of people in the white house who kept the vice president of the united states in the dark, allowed him to lie on national television, and did not correct it afterwards. >> it goes back to the central question, what is the relationship with russia? there is something. it's not nothing anymore. it's not mistake, not newbies.

this isn't nordstrom's, just ethically inappropriate, this is -- >> a simple question of the white house. the president assembled a very strong national policy team. chances are very good he's going to have a strong national security adviser with that team but who is running the white house? the answer is not the president of the united states. that's the wrong answer. who is running the day in, day out of the white house? if you don't have one person strong, one person only, you have the executive nightmares that go on. you have the vice president going out lying. you have one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. >> let's hope that's it. >> one faction not knowing what the other faction is. >> that's the benefit of the doubt there. >> you need to have one person reporting to the president, reporting to the ceo. they have six weak people right now vying for the pleasure of the president's conversation. >> "wall street journal" calling

for that. a lot of people in washington are seeing that. you can't say the administration needs to be paralyzed by looking what happened but they need to learn the management lessons. any republican on capitol hill who cares about america's security should be joining democrats in calling for a full investigation what general flynn did and what the white house has done for the last month. this is not small stuff. justice department believed national security adviser was subject to blackmail by the russians and they did nothing about it the best we can tell. >> remember, this administration hasn't faced an external crisis yet. there's urgency here. we've got to get it done quigley. there's a case for revisiting national security structure of the national security council. i hope they would rethink it, role of chief joints of cash, steve bannon and others at the white house. the new national security adviser has to be empowered. he has to be. if he isn't, this president -- again, this will continue. it may not be a russia scandal,

but the problem of a lack of coordination, a lack of discipline will be now baked into the cake. >> one can only hope this ends here. let's go through how we got to this point despite some early signs, trouble for flynn, white house counselor kellyanne conway said flynn was still in good standing with the president. >> general flynn does enjoy the full confidence of the president. general flynn has said he can't recall and had about 30 phone calls with leade at the time since then 70 i'm told with different leaders. i'll leave it at that. >> are you saying you're satisfied he did not have those conversations? he did not mislead the president? >> those are two different questions. does he have the full confidence of the president? yes, he does. you're asking me what did he talk about with people when i wasn't on the phone. the only way to answer that is what he has said, which is i

can't recall. >> how many times does she go out and say things that aren't true. >> blatantly false. >> how many times? >> willie, it happens time and time again. >> i could not interview her. it's giving people dishonesty. >> she goes out and lies and you find out about those lies. >> it's not worth the interview. >> a couple hours later. if she's not lying, willie, she is -- i've heard she is so out of the loop. >> totally. >> she's in none of the meetings. she goes out without talking without having facts. >> blathering. >> if you're going to put her out there, everyone has to be on the same page. white house strategy, central message you're pushing out. a report from cnn and others say, take this for what it was worth, when she went out there, that was true as far as the white house knew it. information came to them in realtime when sean spicer had to

go out and say the president is reevaluating michael flynn's position. the information that had been available to them. >> for a month. >> for a month that they sat on and did nothing with. >> no, no, no, no. come on. >> i don't understand why she would agree to do an interview. good looking by nbc. why would she do an interview? makes no sense. >> it happens time and again. she's been out of the loop for months now. she will go in and get a picture with the president, do a selfie with the president. >> interviews are her chance to one up and suck up and make mistakes. can't do it. >> david ignatius. >> can't do it. >> it goes to management structure time and time again. i asked donald trump one time in the middle of chaos, who is your person? who is the person that can come in and talk to you and tell you

you were wrong, you were off base, this is how we need to right the show. he said i'm the person. that's the wrong answer. the president of the united states cannot be dealing with the day to day drudgery of running a massive operation. >> yes. but the buck does stop on his de desk. my guess, and this is speakingulation, between kellyanne conway's full confidence and sean spicer we're examining, arrive jared kushner, arrive the person who does seem to speak directly to donald trump and say, wait a minute, mr. president. i do think, i've covered so many administrations where the first few months especially national

security were bumpy. i remember richard allen national security adviser did not work out at all well. bud mcfacfarlane, wonderful man had a disastrous run as national security adviser. these things happen and often presidents don't step in when they should. in this place flynn is leading and the candidates are from everything we know outstanding people who will run a better process. this process is so difficult to manage. the president can't do it alone. he has to have the right person. hopefully now he's going to find that person and then he'll have a reboot. he'll start over. >> it is for people concerned about this country, and this country's foreign policy, this actually despite all the collections this raises, this actually is good for this country. very good for this country if the president replaces -- if the president replaces general flynn

with many of the names that we've heard this morning. >> it would be really, really good. right after kellyanne, her comments, sean spicer said the president was, quote, evaluating the situation. >> he's speaking to the vice president -- to vice president pence relative to the conversation the vice president had with general flynn and also speaking to various other people about what he considers the single most important subject there is, our national security. >> i was going to say, as far as discipline goes, people might say why was he reading that. >> read it. >> they need -- i'm dead serious, they need to do a lot more reading. they need to measure their words so carefully. they need to stop people like kellyanne conway going out and giving bad information rainfall riffing. >> they need to sit, retext everything. they have to strain every word. they have to take every word through a strainer, squeeze every word and start being exact. words matter. >> i'm sorry but kellyanne is

not booking herself on these shows. >> how do you know that. >> white house press saying go out and do this? >> yes, i do. kellyanne is a free agent. >> you think she's telling phone calls. >> without talking to the white house press shop. >> kellyanne conway is a free agent. they have complained. everybody in the white house but donald trump has complained for months. she's a free agent, goes out and says whatever she wants to say. >> whatever serves herself. >> then she comes back in and they have to clean it up. they will lie, she does every time the truth comes out. she will say she's been victimized. >> because she's a woman. >> she will then go in and get a picture with the president and get the president to tweet something. and her staff -- his staff will have to clean it you all over and over again. they have been doing this for four months. you ask a good question. the answer is for everybody

inside the white house, i do mean everybody, donald trump, she's a free agent. she goes out on her own. they spend half their time cleaning up after her. >> they are all unhappy with her. >> that's unacceptable. you know how this works. if you're going on a tv show, you have a meeting, talk about what the message is and drive the message. if that's true that's staggering and stunning. >> between miller on sunday morning with absolutely no information on the biggest story you'd be asked about and his dictator-like talking, it's incredible. >> what this all says, including the flynn thing, is a lack of coordination. >> you need a strong leader reporting to the president of the united states. structure matters. >> structure matters. process matters. process is introduced, anything like this, in order to protect people. in order to make sure decisions are vetted and make sure there's a consistency of message and rigor of decision making. that is missing. to use your phrase, the question is whether this is -- whether the lessons are taken to heart

and serious questions introduced. >> the first ten days jon meacham and we need to go to break, first ten days of this white house will be remembered by historians as being chaotic because you had stephen miller. i don't know this kid. i have nothing against him. i don't know anybody that knows him. he went around all process. he and bannon went around, went to the president, got the president to sign an executive order, which the president of the united states should not have signed. basically brushed aside general kelly and the department of homeland security. again, it goes back to process. they paved -- the profit of the united states and administration were thrown into chaos for the first seven to ten days of their administration because of the lack of process, because of the end around runs. this is happening on policy and

it's happening on communications because there's not one strong leader there. >> writing the narrative of this presidency won't be very difficult, just add water. i do think it's worth pointing out that the acting attorney general told -- informed the white house about the possibility of blackmail. the reason this happened last night was not some magical metamorphosis but because it was leaking, because "the washington post" was reporting it. i think it's worth pointing out that it was the nature of the possibility becoming public that precipitated this. it wasn't the fact of the national security adviser, the office of sco kroft, kosinski, rice, it wasn't the possibility of that being a threat to national security, just a fact they will find out about it. >> they had known the fact, mika, for a month.

the question now that must be answered is who in the white house knew and why did they allow the vice president to lie, why did they keep the vice president in the dark, why did they not go to him afterwards and say you've been lied to and everybody in the white house knows that. >> another question, a a guy who grew up knowing the chain of command conduct that conversation as a freelance move or the understanding of people around him he was going to do it. >> the ranking member of intel committee, will congress formally investigate what's happened here? a big show tomorrow morning. we'll speak exclusively with speakers of the house and senate, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and paul ryan will both be on the show tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. whether it's bringing cutting-edge wifi to 35,000 fans...

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his primary responsibility is to set up the procedures that

will allow the deputies to meet, the principles to meet in the national security council in order for them to move forward recommendations to the president of the united states who makes the final decision. as far as i know, none of those processes have been put in place. we're almost a month into this administration. we're dealing with a number of crisis around the world. i think this is a very dangerous moment not to have those procedures in place. >> that is -- >> can i interrupt you for a second? >> he didn't say a word. >> can i interrupt you for a second? >> sure. >> "new york times" review, i'm going to have you guess, rarely does an author so aptly combine maritime strategy and marinading magic. it rolls right off the tongue. a calm look at a chaotic world. richard haass reviewed in the

"new york times," go into marinading. >> a world in disarray. >> a great national security adviser therein -- in there. >> right there. strategic vision. >> a minute ago we were listening to leon panetta last night talking about reports of turmoil in the national security council. he made those comments before general flynn's resignation late last night. "new york times" reported early this week, quote, several staff members who said mr. flynn, who was a career army officer, was not familiar with how to call off the national guard in an emergency, a natural disaster like hurricane katrina, detonation of dirty bomb. >> again, leaks. leaks. there are leaks everywhere, richard, because the president of the united states and general flynn declared war against everybody and every cabinet

agency so there are leaks everywhere. >> leaks from the intelligence community, also leaks from national surety council staff. >> and the justice department. >> yeah, governing is hard, even if there aren't leaks. you can't run a railroad this way. particularly when you're dealing with classified information. they have got to create a sense of discipline. that requires loyalty. i think one of the things we're seeing is a total pervasive lack of loyalty. >> the reason why, i can't say it enough, if you declare war against everybody in washington -- mika, what did i say, what did we say to our friends in the obama administration the first week. >> washington only. >> washington always wins. let me repeat that again. washington always wins. >> it's worth repeating. >> i've been saying that. you attack everybody in washington and everybody in washington will attack you back.

you'll find out very quickly as you attack every agency and act like everybody is a fool and that you're the first person who ever walked through the white house gates, that story always ends badly. the only question is whether you're actually self-aware enough and some presidents aren't, whether you're self-aware enough as a president and white house staff to understand how to make washington work for you. we haven't had a president since bill clinton, willie, that figured that out. >> remember here the death blow came from the justice department telling "the washington post" they had informed the white house last month about the phone call, the content of the phone call, and the fact they thought general flynn would be exposed. >> and the warning that needed to be sent from the same woman that the white house accused of, quote, betrayal simply because

she was following her conscience. >> meanwhile strongly condemning north korea's missile test in a meeting yet in a statement unanimously supported by all 15 members, the council said they would continue to monitor the situation and take further significant measures if necessary. u.n. ambassador said, quote, call on all members to use every available resource to make it clear to north korean regime and enablers that these launches aren't acceptable. it's time to hold north korea accountable, not with our words but with our actions. it's not immediately clear what kind of action the ambassador is referring to here. here is president trump himself addressing the situation yesterday. >> obviously north korea is a big, big problem, and we will deal with that very strongly. >> richard, you're nodding your head or shaking your head. >> shaking your head. technical phrase, a nothing burger.

two decades we've condemned north korea, introduced sanctions to north korea. north korea continues to vabs its nuclear missile programs. what's happening is irrelevant. we've got to get serious. we've either got to persuade china to use leverage on north korea even though they say they don't have it, or they do or live with the situation of a north korea that can directly threaten united states. >> which we can't do. >> or contemplate military force against them. this crisis is coming unless we can head it off with china. what happened in the u.n. is worse than nothing because it's the illusion of progress. it will not solve the problem. >> david ignatius we've been asking the question atd years, go back to jimmy carter going to north korea, north koreans cheating on that deal. at the end of the day, this is in china's direct sphere of influence. and do we get to a point where the president of the united states, this or any president

says this your problem. it's soon going to be our problem. if you don't act on this, you leave us with no other choice but for us to have to act on it before seattle is within striking distance of long range nuclear missile. >> i think those conversations have begun one way to read president trump's decision to reverse his earlier stance and accept the one china policy, because he knows he needs to be able to talk to china about this looming crisis of north korea's nuclear weapons. one thing to look for, next month there will be a major military exercise involving the u.s. and south korea. it's held pretty much every year, every year north korea hates it, rants, says this is the brink of war. next month is powerful, strategic bombers, the kinds of

weapons that should say to north korea this is dangerous. keep your eyes on that. the tensions will go up next month and then we'll be asking i think in more detail just what is it president trump would do to carry through his statement about weapons hitting the u.s. it won't happen. he made a hard statement. >> jon meacham, i think some of the most compelling stories historians write, especially about transitions, are the first conversations that harry truman had with ike didn't go well. >> right. >> that ike had with jfk. debate go especially well. in this exchange between obama and trump, obama said to him, you can worry about obama care all the you want. that's great. you can worry about taxes. you can worry about whatever you want to worry about but i guarantee you the second you're

sitting in this chair you're going to be kept up at night by north korea. that is your issue that you're going to have to deal with. and here we are. >> yeah. immediately, right. they are settling on the patio at mar-a-lago. you're right. the security of the nation is what ultimately presidents are judged on, and this did not take long. part of the concern and the flynn resignation, the prechaos that led to that is the question is the trump team commensurate with the task of governing. >> ahead we're going to bring in nbc's andrea mitchell with her reporting on fast moving story of michael flynn's resignation. "new york times" columnist thomas friedman will join us as well. "morning joe" will be right back.

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authority will not be crushed. >> the powers of the president will not be crushed. >> worldwide to all planet earth, the powers of the

president will not be crushed. the powers of the president will not be crushed. unquestioned military strength. shawn spifrs is 100 correct. >> the president of the united states is correct 100%. >> the powers of the president will not be crushed, will not be crushed, will not be crushed. the powers of the president will not be crushed. >> wow, terrifying. >> part of lion king where rafiki says to simba, what was that? mufasa's ghost. >> was that from the past or future. >> i think -- >> sunday. >> that happened on sunday. so much happens that we watch the most amazing things go by in this white house. like that little guy. that little napoleon. >> we were talking about this. that sunday interview you said

you went back and resaw the interview again. it was one of the most incredible things you've ever seen, where you have a guy, an unknown staffer in the senate, get on tv and say the powers of the president are not to be questioned. >> speaking on behalf of the president who praised the performance. >> right. >> okay. so i guess the point meacham made, we ought to really put some quotes around and take a look at. the only reason flynn is resigning, lies and discussions about sanctions with russia and improper behavior pertaining to our foreign policy became public. >> jon meacham. >> they were caught. >> is there ever -- can you remember any time that a president or his spokesman or spokeswoman has ever gone out, short of richard nixon, saying -- did nixon say the law

is what the president says the law is. >> that was only after defrost. >> so he wasn't even president th then. can you think of a time when any person on national television has claimed that sort of power for the president? >> no. al haig tried to do it for himse himself. i've been reminded of rabbi korff. >> i woke up at 4:00 for a valentine's day lesson on them. >> that's why children hate you. >> many reasons. kellyanne conway is sort of becoming that. rabbi korff was the last

defender of richard nixon. i don't know if it's worse if she was out of the loop or maybe she was in it at that point. is it worse -- maybe she was right at 4:07. >> it's much worse if she was actually in the loop because that underlines exactly what you've said. the only reason they cut flynn loose was because they knew it was going public. >> sally yates has become, she's now the elliot richardson of this. rabbi korff and elliot richardson. >> this is quite a morning. we're going to add another name to that list the kids go absolutely crazy about, commentary editor of washington examiner, visiting fellow american enterprise institute. that gets the kids screaming right there, tim carney. you told me you guys had to

rewrite your washington examiner headline or editorial -- >> editorial basically saying if flynn -- you can't have a national security adviser who you can't rely on, whether he messed up the conversation, whether he lied, whatever happened, you've got to run him out the door, then at 11:00 p.m. he runs him out the door. saying this is a good step clearing up russian stench that's been around.manafort, thf the worst people in the russian orbit. manafort spiked a provision about protecting ukraine. hu flynn in there. trump being squirrely about what his business dealings with russia is. there's a lot of things trump has done to clear up the russia stench and anybody is the biggest but there's still more. let us know what his business dealings with russia have been. he said there were none, we know that's not true. >> that's not true.

>> we want to know what they are. remember when paul manafort was fired from the campaign and he disappeared. we want to make sure he's not hanging around trump or anybody in the administration. there's still a little bit of russia stench in the administration. >> a little bit? a little bit? >> what do you hear on capitol hill about this russia issue? >> they are -- i talked to some conservative staffers who are not big trump fans. he said the one thing trump is consistent on is pro russia views. that was before the inauguration. since then i think he's cleaned things up a little bit. of course, you look at the hawkish word, rubio, mccain, lindsey graham thing, they are totally irate about it. for the rest of the party, it really feels kind of creepy how much russia stuff there was in there, especially with flynn. flynn was offense number one. >> and obviously, david

ignatius, there was talk now of "new york times" investigating whether flynn received payments from russia. why don't we do a quick fact check here. eisenhower always said he judged people by what they did not by what they said. so let's look at the russia policy since donald trump has been sworn in. how has that been? >> it's been fairly restrained. talked about wanting a much closer relationship with vladimir putin. since becoming president there's been relatively little movement. conversations between general flynn and ambassador kislyak may have been the high watermark of conversation. one really important point about this, those conversations were followed immediately by the

russians not retaliating for the expulsion of their 35 diplomats. unusual not to retaliate. and then a tweet from president-elect trump praising putin for having been so responsib responsible. one reason hard to imagine the president around the president not being briefed in some way on flynn's conversations now that we know that sanctions were discussed, given that the president himself was tweeting about this. ahead is the question of whether the u.s. and russia will partner in some way on syria. that was the big agenda item before the president was inaugurated. today it's going to be much tougher, i think, for trump to do that. there are a lot of people who think that's a good idea dealing with sis. it's not easy in this environment. >> you can't overstate how significant mike pence is in this whole stew around general flynn. wasn't just sally yates but jim

clapper, according to "washington post" and john brennan cia who said mike pence has a right to know he's been misled and sent out to mislead. >> make a liar out of the vice president of the united states, that should be an immediate firing offense. you look at it from the perspective of who in the administration do you need to be the most reliable, most forthcoming, most honest, it's the national security adviser. if this is the education secretary that's one thing. you can't be looking over the shoulder of the national security adviser. trump thinks he can or his inner circle can look over too many people. he can't. he has to delegate, so he needs trustworthy people there. >> trump and flynn have spent a great deal of time together on the campaign. it's impossible this wasn't known between them. >> even a week, a week and a half ago, reports were from deep inside the white house that trump had already grown very

wary of michael flynn and that he was exhausted by flynn. >> i have to argue -- >> he was exhausted by flynn. flynn had embarrassed him in one meeting too many. that's of course what we heard. >> there's a hopeful story here. the worst stuff we're talking about is before he came into office. the wiser stuff, such as growing weary of flynn, such as nikki haley challenging over ukraine, that's -- >> we've been extremely harsh on donald trump on what has happened the chaos inside the white house, but we've also been -- at least i have been extraordinarily hopeful. when you look at the people he has chosen when given the full range of options, you have rex tillerson at state, a strong leader at state. they already love him at the state department. general mattis. i never heard in all my years in washington a man more universally respected and

beloved. mike pompeo, extraordinary respect on the hill and intel community. there is a real opportunity here with the right national security adviser to fill out what i consider to be a strong team. but none of that matters more if he doesn't do the same for the inner workings of his white house. >> look, here is what republicans are concerned about now, optimistic side to point out, i think that's there. this is the white house now still has more questions about russia, more questions about his judgment, and it brings out questions about people in positions like council who are loyalists from the campaign. >> jon meacham, thank you. >> jon, thank you. your kids may not love you but we do paragraph latest reporting on flynn resignation. we'll talk toth to adam schiff. "morning joe" comes right back. s you really want to go.

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tire rotation, brake inspection and more -- for $29.95 or less. only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol® michael flynn out after weeks of criticism. his departure comes in the wake of reports he discussed easing sanctions with the russian ambassador. then, according to a senior official, misled the vice president and other senior administration officials about the nature of his conversations. that caused a concern he might be susceptible to blackmail.

>> in a resignation letter released by the white house, flynn wrote in part this, "unfortunately because of the fast pasted events i inadvertently briefed vice president-elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the russian ambassador. i have sincerely apologized to the president and vice president and they have accepted my apology. >> tells nbc news president and advisers have been, quote, agonizing over what to do about flynn for days. but ultimately the situation became unsustainable. not because of the discussion of sanctions but because he had lied to the president and vice president. i'm adding here, it all became president. >> and a source close to the president says it was the vice president himself, something that we haven't talked about enough over the first hour, it was the vice president himself who was a key driver behind flynn's exit last night.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday february 14th. still with us on set we have political analyst mark halperin. the president on council on foreign relations richard haass, commentary editor for washington examiner tim carney, columnist and associate editor for "washington post" david ignatius. joining the conversation "new york times" columnist and pulitzer prize winning author tom friedman. also with us nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell. all right. a great panel here. fast moving events. we should go point by point what happened and look at the question of exactly who knew what when, which i think go back weeks. despite early signs yesterday of trouble for flynn, white house counselor kellyanne conway said yesterday afternoon flynn was till in with the president.

>> general flynn has said he can't recall. he about 30 phone calls with i guess leaders at the time, arched since then 70 i'm told with different leaders. i'll just leave his comments at that. >> by saying he enjoys the full confidence of the president, are you saying he did not have those conversations, that he did not mislead the president? >> no, those are two different questions you asked me, and i'll repeat the answer, does he have the full confidence in the president. yes, he does. then you're asking me what did he talk about with people when i wasn't on the phone. the only way for me to answer that is to tell you what he has said, which is he can't recall. >> mark the question jon meacham asked last hour is important. >> it is. >> that is whether kellyanne conway is out of the loop, as she often is, or whether she was in the loop. it is far more disturbing for the white house if she was read in and the president sent her out there to say that at 4:00, 4:30 when they have known for a month and certainly knew over

the past weekend. >> there are some aspects that are extraordinary. this piece is not. we see all the time presidents are the last willing to cut somebody loose, even when vice president and other top white house officials have been saying at least a couple of days he had to go. >> steve bannon was actually fighting to keep them in there. >> at some point he flipped his will, too. this is a huge story not because president's social security adviser quit, it goes back to russia, ongoing concern in the intelligence community about the president and his former national security adviser to russia. this will be investigated by executive branch and congress. >> alex, what did you tell me? did you say the "time" said friday the president would cut

him loose. >> bannon pushing on friday. >> something over the weekend said they were talking to him and he was tying to keep him in there. i knew reince pushing him to go. >> the question is why did the president stay loyal to him. >> the president talked with him about the ambassador. donald trump flew on planes all over the country with flynn by his side as the guy who kept him calm. the guy who talked with him while he was traveling. during model when things got quiet and had to wait around. these guys knew about it. how does anybody at the table not look at that possibility. >> a close call for white house council and president told by justice department he's subject to blackmail. >> it's not a close call. willie, this is a man who does not like to admit mistakes even when he was publicly saying the executive order is going smoothly, he was telling his staff it could never happen

again. to fire a man who quite frankly everybody around this table said at the beginning would be a poor fit his national security adviser would be for donald trump to admit he made a mistake, despite the fact i was hearing two weeks ago he had already grown exhausted by him. >> andrea, general flynn was only forced out after yesterday, a storm of reporting from you, from the "washington post," from a number of sources that said the acting attorney general, former acting attorney general sally yates along with john clapper, john brennan cia went to the white house, went to the white house council and said here is what happened in the phone call between flynn and ambassador to russia. here is why we believe he's ripe for blackmail. >> sequence comey, clapper, yates all met on january 19th. that's when they concluded based on the time lapsed between the

call made december 29th and then the concerns that grew out of that call and suspicions they had over the way putin reacted and the way the white house was reacting to the expulsion of the diplomat/spies, no retaliation at all from russia. so then as days progressed they went back and they looked sbe intercepts they had routinely of the russian ambassador and then the phone call, the way he described it in briefs to sean spicer. sean spicer described it during transition. then january 15th when mike pence went on "face the nation" and again repeated the false narrative fed to him by mike flynn, that's when they decided something had to be done. everyone but comey wanted to go to the incoming administration january 19th. that's what wanted brennan and

clapper. brennan and clapper already discredited by flynn and fought against the comments you had heard during the transition. but the fact is yates really did want to go, and the rest of them did as well. it was only after mike pence's "face the nation" performance that they went back. between january 23rd and the day yates fired, that's when he went to the white house council. what we can't understand, who did the council tell and how could they have gone for all of these weeks without having taken some action. >> thomas friedman, there's so much to unpack here, so we will defer to you and let you go where you want with this. the only question i would ask you to start with is is it credible there's any way this president could not have known

about this. >> conversation. >> conversation if the white house had been warned about it a month ago. >> this is a question i've been asking since i've been reading stories starting yesterday, joe. i share mika's real outrage on this issue. i don't care what he told pence. we only care what he told pence because pence went out and basically mislead the public on "face the nation." the issue what did he tell trump? did he and trump actually cook up this whole thing after the russians did not respond harshly to the eviction of their spies and diplomats, trump actually tweeted out some positive encouragement of this. did the two of them cook this up all along? it gets, joe, to two other issues. the first is we have never taken seriously from the very beginning russia hacked our election. that was a 9/11 scale event. they attempted the core of our democracy. that was a pearl harbor scale event. can you imagine if hillary

clinton was president what the right would be doing on this issue. this goes to the very core of our democracy. the second point, it gets back to this kellyanne conway nonsense. my boss likes to make the distinction between formal authority and moral authority. trump has formal authority. that stephen miller guy kept telling us, kellyanne conway keeps telling us, we won. get over it. trump has no moral authority. he has squandered his moral authority by repeatedly lying on issues of fact that we know about. why is that important? because there's going to be a point in the next few weeks or months, whether it's on an issue like north korea or whatever where dmpb is going to have to make an important call on intelligence. it may go bad. he's going to have to look the american people in the eye and say, trust me. the fact he has formal authority but no moral authority is a real problem with him. all this lying is going to add up. >> on that appoint, on that very

last point, richard haass, i just ask how can you not deduce he knew about the conversation flynn had with the ambassador of russia, how much time they spent together, how deeply engaged they were. even during the campaign flynn was the guy who says he respects vladimir putin and asked again and again and again the question with his friend bill or o'reilly on a silver platter giving him the question again during super bowl saying please, please with his face, answer this in a better way. he does not. how do we not deduce russia has something on this president? >> what it does, legitimizes as many investigations you can count into what explains more than a year of sustained benign interpretation of russia's motives in the world. this is the one area mr. trump staked out a position, march on

china, benign on russia. are we willing to make good on remilitarization of russia, push back middle east. raises. >> in for policy community, are there concerns russia has something on this president? >> no one can explain why there has baseball a benign take on russia's role in the world. >> in the campaign, going back to december 2015 on this show when it basically took about five follow-up questions to get him to condemn vladimir putin for assassinating germans. >> no one can explain why this has been a consistent strategic perspective of this first candidate now president. that's a real issue. then i think what mark and others are getting at, this entire thing raises fundamental questions about the organization of the national security process. you can't have several people at

the white house -- it's almost like priorities. if you have six priorities you have no priorities. if you have six people in charge of foreign policy, you have no one. >> bobby bowden rule, six quarterbacks, have you no quarterbacks. one pers-- you need one at the e house. one person talking to the president. if it's reince priebus, great. everyone talks to reince priebus and he talks to the president. if it's not, the president needs to find somebody. either reince is in charge or he's not. if he's not in charge there, there's going to be continuing chaos. >> as long as stephen bannon is there, you can't say reince is the only person involved. >> by the way, every chief of staff that you talk to that's run the white house has said the same thing when they heard about this arrangement. they said, again, back in november, this is going to be

chaos. >> and it has been. tim carney, this obviously is not the end of something. this the beginning of another chapter. they thought the resignation of general flynn was going to put this to the side, it's only now added fuel and more questions to ongoing investigations in the house and senate on the intel committees. marco rubio says this will be put in on a central question on those investigations. where do you think this is headed next? >> i think flynn is a offense number one when it comes to the close with russia. the question mika is asking, does russia have something on trufr. that's a big, deep question. that's not necessarily where it goes next. we also have to ask, were there other communications? was there anything flynn does besides these conversations? anything flynn did when he was in office that some way compromised or hurt the united states. is there anybody else in the administration?

did palin bring flynn people along with him? what makes me have some level of confidence here, as saying earlier, you see a guy like mattis, tillerson, there are actually pillars there you can say we can trust these guys, rely on these guys. the weeds are cut out, the flynn types, you do get some confidence that any investigation actually could get access. as long as flynn was there, this guy was unreliable. you didn't know if he was going to tell the truth to the public. you didn't know if he was going to tell the truth to mike pence, the vice president and to investigators. >> this threat has been pulled and won't go hysterical and overstate it. a lot of people loyal to this government very concerned about what's happening today and set off rather than a calming moment, a huge power fight in the white house. flynn took up a lot of space. whoever the new person is, it's going to take them a while to assert their authority role as

national security adviser. david ignatius, president on parallel track, met yesterday, other meetings with prime minister. how do you think the world will view the departure of three weeks in presidents national security adviser? >> i think flynn was mistrusted in many capitals. i think there will be a sense assuming they choose a successor who is well regarded of a restart and maybe more straightforward path. make two points. we referred earlier to the role of vice president pence, i think that's really crucial. the ballast in this white house, the thing that's keeping it centered, the person who kept coming back on this flynn issue feeling he had been misled was the vice president. i think his role has increased. he's a center for people to cocoa. the legal investigations that

are continuing. the fbi continues to look at the question of what were the russians doing in their covert action trying to influence our politics and did they have contact with people in the trump campaign. that cannot be turned off without massive firings. that's crucial. there's a similar investigation by the senate intelligence committee. the members of that committee have bolstered themselves, have said we need to continue this, take it wherever it leads. it's the most important thing we're going to do in our careers. those are two things to bear in mind. >> andrea mitchell, can you give usa sense of who they are looking at, who the top conte contenders are to replace flynn. >> i'm told top contender vice admiral robert herford, highly regarded navy s.e.a.l. david petraeus is going to be interviewed they say.

we know donald trump does like david petraeus. a lot of support from democrats. they think anybody better than flynn but think petraeus could run this operation. kellogg national security adviser is viewed as care taker. i think you'll see a lot of changes and assertion by mattis. also there's a circling of the wag obstacles by the way. top officials telling me last night they don't think the russia thing is the problem but that he lied to president and vice president. they are not acknowledging there was a russia problem as sally yates warned them. >> thomas friedman, the senate investigators, john mccain, marco rubio, lindsey graham, probably ted cruz, there are a lot of republicans that are not doing to mind digging very deep into this and figuring out what happened. again, i hate -- it sounds so melodramatic but they are going

to want to know and investigators are going to want to know what the president knew and when the president knew it. >> absolutely, joe. we should not move on here to issues of staffing, who is going to be the next director. there's only one question i have in my mind. president trump, did you know what flynn said to the russian ambassador? did he do it with your approval? did he do it with your instruction? when did you find out about it? what did you tell pence? we're talking about this as if pence was president and trump wasn't in the picture. this is, i think, one of the most serious national security affairs that our country has been involved in certainly in my lifetime. russia hacked our election. we keep just moving on to ivanka trump's jewelry and nordstrom's. this cannot be discussed and focused on enough. >> richard haass, what is the

impact if the president of the united states did know about the conversation between his national security adviser with whom he's extraordinarily close and the russian ambassador? >> well, then you're at politicpoli political defcon. i think the impeachment word would be introduced at that point. at the risk of being melodramatic that becomes a first order political crisis with the president and this administration. >> mark halperin, do you agree with that? >> i think sean spicer if he doesn't perform extraordinary well or any spokesperson to calm the horses on this, people are going to start talking about the profound implications of what happened. >> the mystery about russia now has become concrete. >> david ignatius, would you agree with that? >> i have a feeling that our discussions are going to move towards even broader things than flynn's conversation with kislyak.

what happened to paul manafort during the campaign, why was he fired? there's an fbi investigation that continues into that and other issues that are related. so i think the question of a trump team's relationship with russia is now front and center. i think president trump is going to have to answer questions as tom friedman said, what did he know and when did he know it. that's just the beginning of this tangled knot of issues. >> as we keep peeling away at this, i think the next question will be to tom friedman's point is, the phone call to flynn, russian ambassador, relationship with the trump administration and russian government some sort of a quid pro quo from meddling in the election. >> what was before, what was after, why did that conversation happen? >> it is more important now than ever before that they get somebody in the white house. again, either put reince priebus in charge and let him run

everything or get somebody else in there. because andrea mitchell, right now this is a white house in chaos. just listening to tom friedman and david ignatius and richard haass and mark halperin, a storm is coming, and it's coming fast and it's coming hard and they better be ready for it. >> you know, a storm is coming. north korea could be just one side of it. but the fact is they need somebody there who has the president's interest at heart, not their own. that person so far has been jared kushner. jared kushner is the only person -- i would call him the nancy reagan of this sag ark because i covered iran contra. it was nancy reagan who engineered departure and knew what was best for ronald reagan. i would say the son-in-law -- you can laugh at me but i would say son-in-law has better judgment than all these people.

>> i was going to say nobody would laugh at you for that. said all along brilliant. he also, though, has never been in washington, d.c., before. he's never been matt white house before. they don't have anybody there in a senior position that has been in the white house before and that has been through this. >> howard baker. >> a howard baker. >> a jim baker. >> howard baker, a jim baker. you know, we could go down a long list. >> bob gates. >> no white house experience. >> scowcroft. >> this is the time to call in robert gates. it just is. tom friedman, we thank you so much. andrea mitchell, tim carney, richard haass. richard, again, even in these dark times it's good to know there's a book. >> marinades. >> a world in disarray. it's in its 14th printing.

>> moving in that direction. >> from your mouth to god's ear. >> what a day. congressman tim ryan who tweeted sally yates to trump administration 0. later hear from former senator tom coburn. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot. i replaced her windshield giving her more time for what matters most. tech: how'd ya do? player: we won! tech: nice! that's another safelite advantage. mom: thank you so much! (team sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. got a minute? new aveeno®...r you. ...positively radiant® 60 second in shower facial. works with steam to reveal... ...glowing skin in just one minute. aveeno® naturally beautiful results®

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have you seen white house valentine's day cards. this is something, cards to give out at school. each of these feature characters from the trump administration. we have dr. ben carson, loving you isn't brain surgery. kellyanne, my love for you is as real as bowling green massacre. some typos there. president trump chief of staff, don't think twice, make out with rights. first lady melania trump, i almost love you enough to leave new york. finally trump, i'm building a wall around your heart and making you pay for it.

>> those were good. what was reince one. >> make out with rights. >> former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve radner, pulitzer prize winning analyst for "washington post" gene robinson. we have a lot to get to. i feel amiss if we don't let each of you talk to what we've been talking about for an hour and a half and then to the stock market. >> gene. >> this is an extraordinary resignation and necessary resignation and the question, as you said, of this relationship with russia, either who authorized that phone call with the russian ambassador, did the president know what was said and what is that relationship going back to manafort days. i'll tell you that's going to be investigated by the senate, perhaps by the house.

this is potentially a very, very big story that does not end, that begins with general flynn's resignation. as you said earlier, the white house had better be prepared with some answers. it had better be prepared to manage the situation because it could get out of hand very quickly. >> as they say on sherlock, an east wind is coming. >> russia is obviously one big piece of it. but the other big piece is what you guys have also been talking about, a white house in complete disarray, completely incapable of handling the situation. nobody in charge. the people there almost utterly lacking in experience, certainly lacking in white house experience. >> there's nobody in there. this is going to be a crisis. >> it is a crisis. not going to be a crisis. >> it is a crisis but it's going to spiral out of control very quickly if they don't get somebody strong with white house

experience that's been through this. >> look what's going on around this. we have key questions about the president's relationship with russia, which could lead to what we were talking about last segment, some incredible changes in washington. kellyanne selling clothes, breaking ethics rule. the president tweet nordstrom's. >> not only that, tweeting about russia at a critical time in the great unraveling. >> during super bowl saying he respects vladimir putin. little miller acting as a tiny dictator on the morning show, it's incredible. >> that's why i said not a question of white house going to be in crisis, it is in crisis. all that stuff going on, any one of them derailing but together -- >> how do you survive? >> mark halperin, you're hearing from a lot of people that are

talking about -- senior people talking about who needs to lead the white house. if you talk to bob gates or talk to somebody that knows washington, basically say everybody has to leave. >> i would send three out now. >> pick three. bannon and miller and kellyanne. those are your three. somebody with washington experience needs to come in, that's been through this before, that's been through a storm before. >> the president was going to have trouble recruiting the kind of people you're talking about now paved on what i'm hearing from senior people but he's going to have to decide. i think the moment will come when someone explains to him this will stop his legislative agenda. this is not a side show. this is going to become main event. not just press coverage and daily chatter, the main event how republicans on capitol hill view him if he doesn't clean this up. >> who is going to walk into

this right now? is bob gates, leon panetta. old hands that could steady the ship, knows everybody in washington and how the white house works, they are not going to walk into this storm right now. >> the problem is no chief of staff worth anything -- by the way, we're using football analogies, two quarterbacks, no quarterbacks, six quarterbacks, no quarterbacks. what chief of staff is going to walk in that is a number one draft pick as we continue this sports analogy, that would go in there, unless they said i get to call the plays on the field. you cannot tell me what to do on the field. when i'm running this white house, i will organize it and then go to you. >> that's the deal. obviously somebody comes in -- i think there are enough good people out there, the chance to serve the president, chance to serve the country. they are patriots. if they can get a deal with the president.

ask the question, would trump ever agree to this? you want to go into a parallel universe. >> after the break we would love to go into parallel universe. >> waiting to hear on the economy. steve rattner starts and tim ryan standing by on capitol hill. we'll be right back. there are over 47 million ford vehicles out here. that has everything to do with the people in here. their training is developed by the same company who designed, engineered, and built the cars. they've got the parts, tools, and know-how to help keep your ford running strong. 35,000 specialists all across america. no one knows your ford better than ford. and ford service. right now, get the works! a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more -- for $29.95 or less.

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welcome back to "morning joe." quite a morning in that building right there. the white house and steve is looking at wall street's performance since donald trump's election. what do you have? >> quite amazingly as we talk about all these crisis in the white house and foreign policy, markets are operating in a parallel universe as are consumers to some degree. let's start with the stock market. as can you see stock market sitting around in a flatter situation until the election, which is this black dot. it's up 9% since then. up 4% just since the start of this year alone. industries like financials, because of the deregulation of dodd/frank, among strongest companies but not just them. then if you look at small business you'll see something more amazing. the small business index has

absolutely shot up since the election. it's now the highest it's been since 2004. so this sense of optimism, sense of pro business administration, sense of deregulation has reached even small business. lastly, if you look how consumers are feeling about this, can you also see a similar pattern, which is right after election again the index shot up to its highest level since 2004. if you look just over here, you can see in the most recent reading, taken just a couple weeks ago it nudged down a little bit. whether the beginning of some new feeling on the part of consumers all is not well in washington or not we don't know. so far what trump has done with all this chaos, amidst all these crisis, he's given business a lot of optimism and consumers a lot of optimism. >> he does deserve some of the credit he's given himself for this. >> this is where he's setting himself up as he does in so many areas. if he doesn't deliver real progress the crash is bigger than the rise. >> he owns the ups and downs.

>> exactly. >> bring in democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. congressman, always good to see you. you tweet aed a short time ago about the resignation of michael flynn, good, but so many questions unanswered. what questions do you have? >> all the ties to russia. this is the pulling of the first string. we don't missouknow how long it going to take to unravel. this is the canary in the coal mine trump's relationship to russia, flynn's relationship to russia, going back to paul manafort. republicans are taking this seniorsly. there will be investigations, the country needs to know. this is not a partisan issue, it's about the country. >> what do you make of the way the white house has operated so far, this first three and a half weeks, congressman? just about the information flow, conflicting information coming out of that white house on a

day-to-day basis? >> willie, if i knew that answer i'd be in the private sector making a lot of money right now. i don't think anybody knows. i think they have a bunch of politicians and political people in the white house and that's part of the problem. they don't have anything -- like you guys were talking about earlier, about having a rigorous process, about an attention to detail, about streamlining information flows. it doesn't seem like any of that is happening. even if that was happening, it seems like trump is always running this around the end outside game whether with flynn or somebody else that other people don't know about. that really leads to the kind of problems that we're dealing with now. i have no idea how they are going to rectify it other than bringing in a real professional that can help streamline the information. >> congressman gene robinson has a question for you. >> congressman, since the election there has been, i think, spirited democratic resistance, probably the best word, or opposition to president trump and his agenda.

where does that go from here? what do you see -- how do you see that evolving? will there be a different staff working with the president on some issues or not? >> well, we need to capture the energy that has been at the march and rallies that are out there. i think it's important to capture that energy and start putting it into an organization. that's why the dnc post is going to be a critical post for us on how we capture that and organize it and begin to build longer-term movement rather than one offs here and there. i think trump has made it really tough for democrats to work with him. given the muslim ban, nominees drain the swamp. going right to wall street. secretary of labor, increase in minimum wage, touting automation on how great it is to displace

millions of workers. not how we deal with it but how great for the private sector. this makes it hard to work with trump. i'm one who said from the beginning, let's find something we can work on together. let me say this, gene. you know this and you've written about it. democrats will not be successful until we have a bold economic message to communicate to voters. if we don't go down this road and say what's america 2.0 look like in young town, ohio, and across the country, we're never going to get back into the majority. we've got to have a big, bold message how we rebuild the country and change the trajectory of the middle class so they can then participate in some of the gamins steve was talking about not just in the stock market, wages, workforce participation rate at 63%. we've got to get those numbers up. >> congressman tim ryan, thank you very much. eugene robinson, thank you as well. up next, what do traditional conservatives think of the white house and this presidency right now. we're going to bring in former

senator tom coburn and chairman of the american conservative union after this.

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former political director of lab tulsa, oklahoma, former republican senator tom coburn. it's great to see both of you guys here. it's old home week. i was talking about the first time i met you in the bush white house. you want to go back in the white house? they need some help. >> it's been a rough 24 hours, that's for sure. >> unwind this. >> 24 only? >> especially past 24 hours, now the question legitimately asked what did the president know, when did he know it? did he know when flynn knew and

did he know about these warnings from justice? >> look, i find all these charges, the idea they were conducting foreign policy a little bit silly. >> nobody is going to be charged for that. >> the idea, my firm was talk talking -- obviously he changed his answer. why did he change his answer? a couple of investigations to figure out why. i think he's a good man, honorable man. government, this ain't beanbag, this is tough. they made some serious mistakes. he's going to pay the consequences for it by having to answer these tough questions. whether the president was, you know, involved in his interactions and level to the extent he knew, i personally find it -- i think it's a reach to all of a sudden go there immediately. i think -- >> i think it's a reach not to go there at this point. are you kidding me? side by side during the entire

campaign. trump cannot say -- he cannot say he doesn't respect vladimir putin. he can't do it. >> hold on a second. two separate things. first of all, there will be an investigation. >> sure. >> nobody knows the exact answer. we'll find out the answer. >> i've been in those investigations. have you to answer all the tough questions. american people at the end of the day, they are the judge. >> this vladimir putin thing that keeps coming up, 2015, would not criticize vladimir putin until he was under duress and we saw it again last week. twha does that mean to people like you and me that grew up in the cold war and understand who vladimir putin is? >> it's hard for me to think of anything good to say about vladimir putin. so yeah, i think it's a head scratcher for a lot of people. by the same token, a brand-new president wants to come in and reset some of these relationships. we certainly gave hillary clinton and barack obama the

ability to want to reset some of these relationships. i think it actually is a good thing. they had a good foreign policy week, this great conversation. unfortunately these conversations get linked, too, which which i don't understand. a great conversation with the premier of china and a great summit with the head of government in japan. it's important. >> everything is getting leaked, willie, i mean everything, from justice to state to cia, you name it. the nsa. even conversations with the australian prime minister. everything is getting leaked. >> everybody is covering themselves. >> senator, coburn, if you were on capitol hill, based on everything you read and heard, what else do you want to know about the president's relationship with russia as it pertains to general flynn? >> oh, i think we are a little bit ahead of ourselves. i think the intelligence committee is going to figure that out. it needs to be done on the intelligence committee, not

anywhere else. if there's a problem, it will certainly be put forward. we don't know what we don't know. i think we are a little ahead. our assumption is, there's something wrong there. it may not be. it may or may not be. what i would assume n resetting a relationship with russia, trying to change that is a good thing, not a bad thing. we are putting forward all sorts of motives that are different other than trying to do a reset. that may be true, it may not be true. what i have heard this morning is so far out there. i heard the impeachment word. what we need to do is settle down, see what comes. let the president continue to do what he's doing and see what comes out of all this. the idea that we jumped all the way from somebody resigning to implicating the president in some scheme, to me is, you know,

let's let somebody be innocent until they are proven something is going on. i'm a real skeptic. i like a lot of policies, don't like how it's been handled. i think joe is right, you have to have one chief of staff. tough have one person things funnel through. the communication skills, so far, of this white house, other than sean spicer, i think are terrible. >> steve, i spoke with a neighbor last night, big democrat, and said, i actually like a lot of the things he's doing. i like that we have a president that is not repelled by foreign leader that is will actually spend a weekend with a foreign leader. i like him talking to unions. he said but every time he opens his mouth, he destroys everything. every time he tweets something, he gets in the way of -- again, this is a guy that votes for

democrats every four years. >> this is part of his problem. every time something good happens like a meeting with the japanese prime minister, he gets submerged. there's no management. matt, russia is over here, i agree with senator coburn, it's early, we don't know, what we do know is the white house isn't functioning. so, we know that sally yates told the council about this, nothing happened, pence went out and lied. if you were the president, what would you do to clean this mess up? >> you want to know what the facts are. i remember being with the president and there was confusion. he said, look, i'm the president. i want to know what happened here. get this person on the phone. he would get the answer. when you are president, you can get anybody on the phone. if sally yates says hey, here are the facts as we know it and it takes a while to get to the president, look at that.

you ought to know these things immediately. >> tom coburn to your point, i understand, don't get ahead of your skis, don't get arrogant. the spectrum of possibilities here go from a head scratcher to the potential of blackmail of the president of the united states. i think there's a difference between being ahead of your skis and seeing what you see. at what point don't we see what we see with russia. >> that's a big leap. >> i'm not making a leap, i'm seeing what i see. he cannot condemn vladimir putin, he cannot say a bad thing about it. he can't do it. >> that may be true, but let me finish my point. our representative of the united nations say plenty of things, one. number two, we don't know what's going on in the background. i would tell you, that may be a smart foreign policy with a thug like putin, you defend, to a

point, so you can have a conversation without going to rattle sabers with a very powerful and dangerous nation. so, again, you may be right. i may be wrong, but i think we ought to wait and let the investigations go forward rather than assume because somebody won't criticize that necessarily they agree. that may be a smart tactic. i don't know the answers to those. i don't think anybody else does. >> none of us do, tom. you are right. we don't know. there will be investigations and then we will know. tom, we have to go to break. i would love for you to come back so you and i can come back and complain about what we love complaining about, big

government republicanism and a debt on the way to becoming a $30 trillion debt and nobody in washington doing anything about that. can you come back? >> i can but there's $144 trillion in unfunded liabilities for the millennial generation. >> that's why i want dwrou come back. >> a lot of reasons why. thank you, tom. still ahead. >> matt, thank you. by the way. >> white house correspondents for nbc news hallie jackson and julie join us. "morning joe" is back in a moment. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned.

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he can master new ways to deposit checks too. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master. under siege from day one. national security adviser, michael flynn, is out of the nsa. his departure comes amid ongoing reports he discussed easing sanctions with the russian ambassador, then, according to a senior official misled the vice president and other senior administration officials about the nature of his conversations. that caused a concern he might be susceptible to blackmail. in a resignation letter to the white house, flynn wrote, unfortunately, because of the fast pace of events, i inadd ver tantly briefed the vice president-elect and others with incomplete information regarding phone calls with the russian ambassador. i have sincerely apologized to

the president and vice president. they have accepted my apology. a senior official tells nbc news the president and advisers have been agonizing over what to do about flynn for days. ultimately, the situation became unsustainable, not because of the discussion of sanctions, but because he lied to the president and the vice president. a source close to the president says it was the vice president, himself, who was a driver behind flynn's exist last night. good morning, everyone. it's tuesday, february 14th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on this news morning, we have co-author of game change, mark halperin, president of council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray" richard haass. columnist and editor for "the washington post," david ignatius and jon meacham. welcome everyone. >> good morning, everybody.

mark halperin, a lot to uncover here. what are the big headlines here? >> almost everyone i knew thought from the day donald trump named general flynn his days were numbered, including the ties to russia. the president the president are considering are strong names to rebuild the national security council, team and national security team. it raises questions about the president's judgment and the white house council who knew about this allegation that he could be blackmailed. >> for a month. >> for a month. whether he did something or not, most people would have resigned had something not been done about it. >> mika, you have been saying michael flynn would be the first to go. you started saying it before he was sworn in. you said michael flynn will be out first. >> i think this is good news for those who have been concerned this white house has people in it that are really not cut out

for their jobs and perhaps leading the president astray. i think flynn had a very, very, too tight relationship with donald trump and raised questions about the relationship with russia, which remain as big question. >> richard haass, the names, as mark halperin said have been floated would be extraordinary trade ups and finish a strong foreign policy team. >> yes, except one, they are all military, so it reinforces the military perspective. two, you have a crowded white house, joe. you have the strategist and now young mr. miller, jared kushner. the question is, what will be the authority of this person? will you be able to bring in the more than 150 republicans that signed this letter? the establishment that staff the nsa and staff the administration has been excluded. neither the secretary of defense or secretary of state has a

deputy. yes, these are all trade ups, i agree with you. there are bigger questions, is donald trump willing to empower his new national security adviser, which i would argue is necessary if donald trump is going to be a successful foreign policy president. >> will the chaos in the white house, kellyanne conway saying flynn had the ful confidence of the president and sean spicer, once again, had to go out and clean things up. >> that's the point you knew something was coming, something was imminent. this is a loss to donald trump. flynn is one of the earliest advisers, earliest supporters. went out, put his neck out for donald trump during the campaign. he had on his right hand in foreign policy. a lot of decisions he made were informed by general michael flynn. that will change now. the question remains, if the president knew about this several weeks ago, last month, if he knew nsa could have been

blackmailed, why didn't he do anything sooner? >> it goes to the point, joe, that you have been making all along, there are ways they will get back at you and especially when you criticize intelligence agencies and the like. >> it's so obvious. david ignatius, we have been warning this president and general flynn on the air for months that you go after the intel community. the intel community will go after you. they are the last people you want to go after. >> they will always have more. >> general flynn declared war on the intel community. the white house actually accused sally yates of the justice department of, quote, betrayal, and suddenly, we read in the newspapers cascade of stories that actually led up to this point. the dismissal of general flynn

and sally yates, the one accused of betrayal, the one who warned them a month ago. >> joe, i think while that narrative obviously is compelling, i think it's wrong to think of it as payback. this was about loss of trust on the part of general flynn and with the vice president. a central person in this administration. general flynn's problem was there was a record of the calls he made with the russian ambassador and that record became known to t acting attorney general and others in the administration. they felt they had an obligation to tell the white house council and they did. i think the issue, yes, there's been a lot of friction between the trump and intelligence community. i don't think that's what this is about. >> that's not the headline here. jon meacham, we talk about it every four to eight years.

a new white house comes in, they walk through the gates, they believe they are the first people to crack the code and they go in with a level of arrogance that is soon stripped away very quickly. if you take on the acting attorney general, if you take on the cia, if you take on the intel community, if you declare war against everybody, well, they don't expect them not to punch back. yes, you accusally yates of betrayal. sorry, it's the way of washington. it happens to be sally yates whose story gets told. by the way, that is the he headline, they were warned a month ago and didn't act on it. >> the news reinforces concerns about the new president. one is that the free wheeling style is not commensurate of the gravity of the task of governing

the country and the second is that the entire overarching set of questions about russia and this perpetual issue where vladimir putin and russia, now the ambassador appear as these persistent characters and the question, which everybody has been asking on social media about what does the president know and when did he know it? there's significant questions to be answered about president trump's relationship, nonrelationship with russia itself. >> to that point, mika, who knew in the white house and when did they know in the white house and why was the vice president of the united states kept in the dark and allowed to go on television and lie and not have anybody go to him who knew in the white house that he had been pushed out to lie? the only reason we are finding

out aut now is because a patriot did leak this to "the washington post," did get this information out there or else we wouldn't have known about it. why was mike pence kept in the dark when the white house council knew about it? heft sent out to lie. why? and who knew? was mike pence the only person in the white house kept in the dark? we know the white house council had to know. the president of the united states had to know. certainly the justice department knew. and if the acting attorney general knew, did sessions know? there has to be a very long list of people in the white house who kept the vice president of the united states in the dark, allowed him to lion national television and then not correct it afterwards. >> it goes back to the central question, what is the relationship with russia?

there is something. it's not nothing anymore. it's not mistake. it's not but newbies. it's not nordstrom. this is trump on a deep, global level. >> and there is, i think a more central question on the daily function of the white house. the president assembled a very strong national foreign policy team and chances are very good he's going to have a very good strong national security adviser to go with that team. who is running the white house? the answer is not the president of the united states. that's the wrong answer. who is running the day in, day out of the white house? if you don't have somebody strong and one person and one person only, then you have the executive order nightmares that go on. you have the vice president going out lying. you have one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. that's it. >> that's the benefit of the doubt rugt there. >> you need to have one person

reporting to the president or reporting to the ceo. they have six weak people right now vying for the president's, the pleasure of the president's conversation. >> the wall street journal calls for that today. a lot of people in washington are seeing that. you n't say the administration needto be paralyzed but they need to learn the management lessons. they should be joining the democrats, calling for a full investigation of what general flynn did and what the white house did for the last month. this is not small stuff. the justice department believed the national security adviser was subject to blackmail by the russians and they did nothing about it, the best we can tell. >> this administration hasn't faced a crisis yet. there's urgency here. i think there's a case for revisiting the national security council. i would hope that they would basically use this as an opportunity to rethink it. the role of the chairman, the joint chief of staffs, the role

of steve bannon and others at the white house. the new national security adviser has to be empowered. if he isn't, this president, again, this will continue. it may not be a russia scandal, but the problem of a lack of coordination, a lack of discipline will be baked into the cake. >> one can only hope this ends here. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from the white house on this quickly moving story. hally jackson, julie pace join us us live and later adam schiff joins us. general flynn's decision to step down as national security adviser was all but ordained the day he misled the country with secret talks with the russian ambassador. we'll be right back. find a safe used car. you could start your search at the all-new carfax.com that might help. show me the carfax? now the car you want and the history you need are easy to find. show me used minivans with no reported accidents.

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his primary responsibility is to set up the procedure that is would allow the deputies to meet the principals to meet in

the national security council in order for them to move forward recommendations to the president of the united states who makes the final decision. as far as i know, none of those processes have been put in place. we are almost a month into this administration. we are dealing with a number of crises around the world. i think this is a very dangerous moment, not to have those procedures in place. >> that is, of course, leon -- >> what? >> can i interrupt you for a second? >> he didn't even say a word. >> can i interrupt for a second? >> sure. >> new york times review, i'm going to have you guess what book, rarely does an author combine maritime strategy and marinating magic. it rolls right off the tongue. a calm look at a chaotic world. richard haass reviewed in the new york times and they go into the marinating chapter.

>> a world in disarray. >> congratulations. >> yes. >> great review. >> great national security adviser in there. >> right there. like brzezinski in strategic vision. >> a minute ago, we were listening to leon panetta talkg about reportof turmoil in the national security council and made the comments before flynn's resignation. "the new york times" reported several staff members, who was a career army officer was not sure how to call off the national guard for hurricane katrina or detonation of an american bomb in an american city. >> again, leaks. there are leaks everywhere because they declared war against everybody and every cabinet agency so there are leaks everywhere.

>> leaks from intelligence community and leaks from the security council staff. >> and from the justice department. >> yeah. again, you can't -- governing is hard. it's tough enough if you don't leak. if you are trying to do it, the idea of woodrow wilson, you can't run a railroad this way. particularly when dealing with classified information. they have to create a sense of discipline. that requires loyalty. one of the things we are seeing is a total pervasive act of loyalty. >> the reason why i can't say it enough, if you declare war against everybody in washington, what do we say to the obama administration the first week? >> washington only. >> washington always wins. let me repeat that again. washington always wins. i have been saying that. you attack everybody in washington, then everybody in washington will attack you back. you will find out very quickly, as you attack every agency and

act like everybody is a fool and you are the first person that ever walked through the white house gates. that story always ends badly. the only question is whether you actually are self-aware enough and some presidents aren't. whether you are actually self-aware enough is a president and his white house staff to understand that you have got to figure out how to make washington work for you. we haven't had a president, since bill clinton, willie, that figured that out. >> remember here, the death blow came from the justice department telling "the washington post" they had informed the white house last month about the phone call, the content of the phone call and they thought general flynn could be exposed. >> and the warning that needed to be sent from the same woman that the white house accused of, quote, betrayal, because she was following her conscience. >> we have much more ahead on

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welcome back to "morning joe." we have much more key reaction to michael flynn's resigning as trump's national security adviser. we bring in the ranking member on intelligence, congressman adam schiff. first, bill karins has a look at the severe winter weather hitting the east coast. also, the race against time for people living along the oroville dam as the storm enters the area. >> friends in maine are saying good-bye. let's go to the story with the dam. here is the great news. down to 889 feet. it peaked at 902 feet, which is when it was going over the spillway. it's dropped 12 feet since the peak on sunday, that's great. all the water is going down the spillway, it's doing its job, the emergency spillway.

the severe weather threat is going to be dangerous around houston. a lot of rain in dallas. houston, you are under a tornado watch, rare, right? here is the closer view of the line. a lot of lightning here. one tornado warning, no reports of tornadoes, yet. the houston area, you have an hour to the peak of the rush hour that's going to head to the peak of the region. to the west, the threat throughout thursday is going to be more additional rain. you probably heard about that with the rain by the dam and water basin. thursday morning, the total amount of rain is around three to four inches. the severe weather threat push sboos louisiana. the worst tornado threat is houston, galveston a new orleans. how about the warmth? it is spreading to the middle of the country to the east. 70 in atlanta. near 70 in washington d.c. a lot of active weather around the country. still ahead on "morning joe,"

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welcome back to "morning joe." joe, right now, is on his way to washington. hel sitting down in an hour from now with mitch mcconnell. we'll have that exclusive interview on tomorrow's show. also, tomorrow, we speak live with the speaker of the house, paul ryan, the leader of the senate and the house, both exclusively on "morning joe" tomorrow. still, much to get to this morning. joining us now, hallie jackson and julie pace. hallie, we'll start with you. how is the white house responding to the news of flynn's resignation? >> reporter: they are scrambling to get their message out.

kellyanne conway is appearing to talk about the president's decision. her indication to matt lauer on nbc news on the "today" show is the president wanted her to go out there and talk about the fact that michael flynn resigned, what led up to that. conway made clear it was misleading the vice president that is what ultimately got flynn in such hot water. not necessarily the phone call itself or what the white house had been notified about by the department of justice, then sally yates. listen to what she said about why flynn ultimately stepped down. >> i think misleading the vice president really was the key here. i spoke with the president this morning. he asked me to speak on his behalf and to reiterate that mike flynn had resigned. he decided that the situation had become unsustainable here. the president accepted that resignation. >> you are saying that's the straw that broke the camel's back.

the white house knew about that last month when the justice department warned the white house mr. gin had not been honest in characterizing that conversation with the russian ambassador. as a result of that dishonesty, he was at risk for blackmailing by the russians. >> that's one characterization. the fact is general flynn continued in that position. >> let me make clear three points here. number one, there are central question that is need to be answered by the administration today. what did president trump know about mike flynn's phone call? when did he know it? if he knew about the issue with the department of justice revealing information about mike flynn, whyidn't he take action sooner? two other points, it's not just about mike pence. pence was a driver behind this. pence was putting pressure on the president, ultimately, up to the president. pence was disturbed by the idea mike flynn did not reveal the

truth. by the way, wasn't just mike pence. chief of staff, reince priebus, i'm told by a source was concerned about the fact he personally had not been given information accurately by mike flynn when this began to come out. listen, a lot more questions than answers, i think, heading into the day, mika. i'll head over to the white house to find out. >> hallie jackson, thank you. julie pace, to you now. what are you hearing? >> reporter: hallie raises a good point. there are key answers we need to get to today. this revolves around when president trump was read in. i was told the white house was aware of this for weeks. so, they knew there was a discrepancy between what mike flynn was telling vice president pence and others and what intelligence officials knew to be true with the calls. there's a transcript floating around of one of the calls mike flynn had with the russian

ambassador. one of the questions i want to ask the white house is, didn't you realize early on there was a discrepancy here? if you go back to december when the reporting of the calls first came up, the white house changed their story at the time. the transition team changed their story multiple times about basic facts, the number of calls flynn had, the date the calls happened. it seems like either no one at the white house followed up on the content of the calls, or if they did, they thought flynn could survive. >> flynn's resignation comes amid questions whether he intentionally misled the president. but, at the rnc this summer in cleveland, he questioned hillary clinton's honesty. >> we do not need a reckless president who believes she is above the law. lock her up. that's right. >> lock her up! >> that's right, lock her up.

i'm going to tell you what, i have called on hlary clinton to drop out of the race because she, she put our nation's security at extremely high risk with her careless use of a private e-mail server. if i, a guy who knows this business, if i did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today. >> that was general flynn seven months ago, leading the lock her up chant. democratic congressman adam schiff of california and professor of political science and director of international studies at stanford university, michael mcfall. thank you for being with us this morning. congressman schiff, you are the ranking democrat on the house intel committee. what questions do you have based on what you have learned in the

last 24 hours to go forward with an investigation into the ties with the trump administration and russia? >> here is what disturbs me, it wasn't flynn's lie that brought him down. it was the public exposure of the lie. the white house knew about this weeks ago and did nothing to remove him. this is either a white house that was knowledgeable and supportive of the secret conversations with the russians about sanctions or that simply has a high tolerance for a patent falsehood. it's not as kellyanne conway says, misleading the vice president, it was the vice president misleading the entire country. they were okay with that when it wasn't exposed by the press. it begs the question whether the calls flynn had with the russian ambassador were known to other people in the white house, known to the president, whether they had the support of the president as part of a changed policy toward russia.

this begs important questions that ought to be front and center as a part of our investigation of russian covert operations in the united states. >> congressman, what would you like speaker ryan to do today to exercise oversight from your branch of government? >> of course the republicans in congress have been completely silent on this. i would like him to call for the white house to explain exactly who was aware of flynn's conversations, when they were aware of it, whether the president was informed about this and, indeed, whether these conversations were sanctioned by the administration. of course, nothing would be surprising about that, as appalling as that fact may be. i would like to see the speaker join and make bipartisan the calls for the administration and be forthcoming about this. >> ambassador mcfall, given your experience with russia, a lot of people on the show today have said don't get ahead of your

skis when we all tried to deduce there's no way the president wasn't aware of these conversations with general flynn by his side throughout the campaign and pretty much every day at the white house. we all have instikts. at some point must we not be blind to everything we see as it pertains to this president's relationship to russia and potential danger we see there, potential for blackmail? >> well, for me, i just have 100 more questions, right? when you learn a bit more and it's revealed as congressman schiff said, not because the administration told us, but because somebody leaked this information to "the washington post." that's the reason we know this. it wasn't them fully disclosing everything. now i want to know a lot of things. obviously, i want to know if the president, himself, instructed general flynn to make those calls and make those offers about holding off on the

sanctions and the tet fit for t. he sat next to vladimir putin for a dinner. we have seen the photos. what were they discussing then? was there discussions? was there coordination between the campaign and the dump of the data at wikileaks. i have zero information about that. i want to be clear about that. i have seen, you know, innuendos and things that were released. i don't know the facts. when something like this happens and you don't know the facts before, it makes you want to question all the contacts before. i think we need an independent investigation to get to the bottom of all this. >> mr. ambassador, what do you think vladimir putin is thinking as he looks at the developments of theast 24 hours? >> i know wha the russian media and the media close to the kremlin are saying. they are saying this is a bunch of, they call it a witch hunt because it's russia phobia.

this is the pentagon -- >> what do you think putin is thinking? is there a way for him to gain advantage to this that he's maneuvering to do? >> this is a setback for putin. in the constellation of senior people making foreign policy around the president, general flynn was considered somebody sympathetic to the kremlin, sympathetic to russia. they have lost one of their allies. the other folks, especially secretary mattis, they are thinking their stars are rising now. >> we had senator coburn of oklahoma on a while ago. he said there's no crime in trying to reset the relationship with russia, if general flynn was making calls, as ambassador mcfall said he did under the obama administration saying hey, let's take a step back, create space to talk and change our

relationship. what to you, in that phone call, bothers you the boast? >> on the very day the president was announcing sanctions to punish russia over their interference in our campaign, interference designed to help donald trump tharks is potentially telling the russians, don't worry about it, we'll take care of it. don't overreact. that, to me, is quite breathtaking. i think the ambassador is right. the bigger question here is, was this latest contact of flynn with the russian ambassador part of a long series of contacts? did that involve collusion during the campaign itself? that is the subject of our investigation in the intelligence committee. i would like to see it elevated but those are some of the most serious questions. it's not a crime to want to reset relations with russia. it may be a naive idea at this

point given everything russia is doing. what would be a crime is if there was collusion during the campaign and i think cerinly the policy change, this appeasement of putin would be a profound mistake for the country. >> julie pace? >> congressman, in your role on the intel committee, have you been briefed on the transcript of these calls between flynn and the russian ambassador and more broadly in the briefings the intelligence committee received on the russian hacking into the election? was there anything troublesome to you in flynn's role that was brought up in the course of the briefings? >> unfortunately, i can't go into the briefings we have had. i can tell you, we were in the process of requesting the transcripts or recordings of the conversations. we were dealing with the published reports so we didn't have confirmation there were transcripts, yet. they are things that ought to be

briefed to the intelligence committee. we are going to bring general flynn in before the intelligence committee to probe these questions, what were the nature of contacts with russia? what were the nature of conversations with the russian ambassador? when did they begin? how specific were they? i think the transcripts or recordings will help inform that part of the investigation. >> thank you both. julie pace, thanks to you as well. up next, president trump praised the immigration raid as being carried out in several cities and more than 100 arrests in los angeles. we'll talk to the mayor, eric gar setty who vows to fight the president's immigration crackdown.

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and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. in a moment, the latest on the recent wave of raids targeting undocumented immigrants across the nation. we'll speak live with the mayor. first, a quick look at the ground we have covered this morning. national security adviser, michael flynn is out. >> this is a significant loss to donald trump. his days were numbered for a variety of reasons. >> for a month. that is the headline. >> the baker question about what did the president know and when did he know it. >> go after the intel community, the intel community will go after you. >> this is a good step in clearing up the russia stench that's around trump. >> hard to imagine people around the president having not been

briefs. >> i think it's a reach to all of a sudden go there immediately. >> this is pulling of the first string. you don't know how long it's going to take to unravel. >> it wasn't flynn's lie that brought him down. it was the public exposure of that lie. >> did they actually cook up this whole thing? trump has formal authority, but no moral authority. >> all this lying is going to add up. >> it's good for this country. >> if the president replaces general flynn with many of the names that we have heard this morning. >> how many times does she go out and say thing that is are not true. >> she says whatever she wants to say. >> whatever serves herself. >> then comes back in and they have to clean it up. >> they have to create a sense of discipline. >> the communication skills, so far, of this white house, other than sean spicer, i think are terrible. >> donald trump has his treasury secretary, at least. the senate confirmed steve

mnuchin. every republican voted in favor of the goldman sachs executive. the only democrat to vote yes was joe manchin. let's bring in the author of airbnb story. a lot of controversy coming out of the white house. let's talk about mnuchin. >> yeah. >> what does he bring to the table? >> it got drown out by the other news. i think this confirmation is less controversial than others even though some of the democrats have said and, you know, he's come under attack from profiting from the bank he bought. it's true, he made a lot of money from that and some said he was aggressive with the foreclosure situation. you know, he's a seasoned banker. word is the people he's looking at to fill the positions under him are very seasoned.

this is not going to be a huge disruptive pick, i don't think. >> president trump welcomed the canadian prime minister, justin trudeau to the white house yesterday. they held a joint news conference on border security and women in the workplace. earlier in the day, the president and ivanka hosted a round table on female business leaders. they launched a council for women and canadian businesswomen. he's open to gender equality and appointed a cabinet with an equal number of men and women. certainly, there is not an equal number of men and women in the president's cabinet. ivanka is out front and plans to be more out front on the issues, if she gets a chance, given the headlines. >> it's true. this is her thing. she has a book that's going to come out about women who work. she's expected to bring a lot to

the conversation here. this is prime minister trudeau's big thing. he's made a mark about making women first. the cabinet is 50%. this makes sense this is what they would come to the table to talk about. >> there's a lot of synergy there and a lot happening behind the scenes with ivanka and dena powell, who i introduced her to and is seen as one of the most experienced people in the white house in terms of washington experience and white house experience. she actually, probably has more experience than a lot of people in the president's inner circle. it's someone who can be effective on these issues. >> she can. she founded 10,000 women at goldman sachs. she's been a partner at fortunes. created a mentoring department. there's so many names involved here. we have to see. we have to see what comes of this, that's the big question. >> the question is, will they be able to get to it? >> that's the other question,

exactly. >> willie, take it. >> the federal judge who halted president trump's travel ban denied the request to delay the lawsuit. the justice department wanted the case postponed while they decide whether or not to hear it before a panel. when they argued against moving the case along, the judge responded, quote, i'm surprised to hear you say that. lawmakers reportedly set to meet with the top immigration official, following a recent wave of raids targeting undocumented immigrants. they will sit down today with the acting director of immigration and customs enforcement. they sent a letter over the weekend requesting the emergency meeting. secretary john kelly announced in a statement yesterday, more than 680 people were detained last week as a part of the raids in los angeles, chicago, atlanta, san antonio and new york city. in that same statement,

secretary kelly addressed outrage over the arrests saying these operations targeted public safety threats like criminal aliens and gang members. yesterday, president trump said he simply following up on his campaign promise. >> we have really done a great job. we are actually taking people that are criminals, very, very hardened criminals in some cases, with a tremendous track record of abuse and problems and we are getting them out. that's what i said i would do. i'm just doing what i said i would do when we won by a very, very large electoral college vote. >> let's bring in the mayor of los angeles, eric garcetti. great to have you with us. thanks for being here. obviously you have raised alarms. others raised alarms about the

raids. president obama deported more people than any president of the century. how are these deportations over the last few days of the trump administration different from what president obama did throughout his administration? >> part of the problem is exactly that, it's not clear. we are not getting transparency and the information we need. initially, when they said over 100 people in southern california brought in, that was denied. later on, they admitted 161 people. i got initial briefings from i.c.e. officials. it's unclear how they are targeting people. we don't want the grandmother who forgot to pay her parking ticket separated from her family going back to a country she doesn't know. of course there's dangerous criminals and we want them off the street. if somebody is driving without a license and they are the primary breadwinner for the family, make them a citizen, find a way for them to be here legally rather

than disrupt a city. >> do you believe or have evidence what you are describing is what's happening? do you not believe secretary kelly saying we are going after criminal elements? >> i know, for a fact, from the briefing i received from i.c.e., there were people who had no other violation besides being here unlawfulfully. they came over without documentation, but caught up, wrong place, wrong time. they are going after somebody. somebody else was in the apartment and they got taken up. there's a wide range of what the criminal penalties were. yes, i know they were driving without a license. california gives licenses to everybody. if that was a 4 or 5-year-old, you know, charge, that seems to be not the people we should be targeting. i would like to see resources targeted toward those people that are violent and serious criminals, not contributing members of this economy. >> you disagree with the president on these issues, a matter of public policy.

what is the proper role for local and state officials to play here? >> i have a responsibility to the nation and my city to protect its economy, streets and families. i'm too profamily to want to see them separated and blended families with various levels. i'm too proeconomy to see all the businesses started by immigrants. i'm too pro-constitution to say local law enforcement officials should continue a policy. it's four decades old. i'm too pro-police to stop listening to police professionals saying we need the trust in communities. we should be focused on local crime. this is a huge distraction from the work i want to do with this administration an infrastructure, jobs and moving the country forward. we will continue to protect our

people. >> you mentioned the business community. this is a huge issue. are you talking to local leaders in los angeles about this and what might happen going forward and what the risks are? >> absolutely. i have been leading mayors, republican and democratic on this issue, who believe in our dreamers and want to see us have a strong agricultural sector. we saw wages go up on average 42%. it's lifted the wages up because people aren't undercutting wages by working under the table. democrat, republican, we have a huge, you know, coalition to come together and do comprehensive reform instead of seeing this fear we are spreading in the community where kids don't want to go to school. people need to know their institutional rights. it's been a good week for the instituti constitution. i think mayors around the country are trying to make that argument so people know how

important immigrants are to america. >> all right. mayor eric garcetti or los angeles. thanks for your time. >> thank you, guys. appreciate it. wondering where to begin in terms of wrapping up today. mark halperin, what is the headline of the day? >> the white house despite kellyanne conway's appearance has a lot to answer. what did he do? who did he tell? how did they respond? the posture for the white house publicly is you can't lie to the vice president, but you don't have to be forthcoming to the american people. >> tom friedman, earlier on the show said, don't let this go. on a week you have little miller playing a tiny dictator, kellyanne conway selling ivanka trump's clothes and the president tweeting about nordstrom and his friendship with vladimir putin and his

respect for him. don't let it go. there is something here. i was the one who said very early on flynn would be the first to go. he was. he is. willie? want to add anything? >> it's time to go. on tomorrow's show, speaker of the house paul ryan and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell exclusively on "morning joe." stephanie ruhle picks up now. >> mika called it and it happened. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news overnight. mike flynn is out. president trump's national security adviser resigning, following a new report that the white use was warned general flynn could be blackmailed over those russia calls. just hours after this -- >> yes, general flynn does enjoy the full confidence of the president. at the same time, a breach of protocol. these