organization, msnbc alan would have liked that. i'm going to miss alan. see you tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. "hardball" starts now. in bed with trump. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews if washington. last year there was debate about whether donald trump really represented the conservative moment. >> every day it is going to be a

fight that is what i'm proudest about donald trump, all of people have come to him, say you have to moderate, every day he tells reince and i, i promised there when i reason and i'm going to deliver on this. >> but after a milo was -- we saw again saw french have come close to ill filtrated the movement. richard spencer was stripped andess skorted after he held improper tu meeting with the reporters. this is how he explain what happened. >> what happened did they strip of you your credentials at cpac. >> yes. >> they issued them in the first place. >> yes. >> what was it talking about --

>> they discovered who i was and the fact is people want to talk to me. they don't want to talk to the boring conservatives. everyone recognizes there has to be idea politics in the world. white people define and increasing minority status. >> cpac spokesperson says he was unwelcome at forum. a very different scene is playing out at republican town hall across the country. they continue to take their fight to lawmaker, yesterday angrily shouting down their representatives to order to voice their concerns. >> what would you do to help bring that about in congress to show this man's tax returns. we need to know. >> the way we determine who

commander in chief is through election. >> the former president showed his birth certificate. >> my daughter has canacer. she is 23 years old. she believes no one cares especially senator cassidy. >> i have been -- >> i'm mary from fayetteville and i'm not a paid protester. >> before we get anything in this country we need to make sure that our president is not a puppet of vladimir putin. >> a picture of the deepening divide from america. let's go to cpac where kasie hunt is standing by.

it was a creepy comment about white supremacy all of that. he is not hiding from that. >> he is not hiding from it. it's difficult to ask those questions to be honest. it's clear that the organizers wanted him out. they wanted to make sure it was about him being thrown out. he held inprompt comment -- about underage sex this is absolutely untenable, but richard spencer creating controversy today. it underscores the divide going on here at the conferences between establishment conservatives and how uncomfortable they are with some

of the elements the people around donald trump critics would say they are encouraging them and they are people praising donald trump and our they held conferences -- hail trump in washington, after he was elected and can punched in the face twice. i think you saw it on stage, too, between steve bannon and priebus. >> let's listen to what he said. >> just a few years ago this hate filled left wing factious group hijacked the term alt-right. we know who they are. they met in washington, d.c. to spew their hay tret. they are sexist, they hate

constitution. they hate free market, they hate pluralism. they despise everything we believe in. >> is that resonate in the room what he was saying, pluralism? >> yes, i think it did. if you think of the divide, richard spencer is on the fridge of what we are talking about, there's been lot of criticism of steve bannon as someone who encouraged alt-right. he was sitting on stage with reince priebus. they are sitting next to each other on the stage and i watched them together and watch the crowd when bannon was speaking and there were people who were excited, he joked, thanks for

inviting me. there were a good number who sat and listened and they were not cheering, not on their feet, they is still intense degree of discomfort, i would say there's conservative movement that does not know how grapple with this piece of conservative with america gotten a knew voice over this course of the cycle. you is see version of it on stage, you can feel it in the crowd, you can feel as the people in the charge of cpac we're doing everything to distract from what richard spencer is doing in our hallway right now. there's intense discomfort here but bannon we're going to fight

every day. we're going to do this thing every day. he understands how to motivate them. from what he said theat's going to be a focus. >> it sounds like bannon, he looks like who he is. thank you for great reporting. >> thank you. town halls caused some republicans of having a meeting. congressman gohmert did not want to schedule town hall. he didn't want to have a town hall in february of 2017, because of what happened a while back. he said that's the reason. "there are groups from left ideology some being paid praying on town hall to threaten public

safety. that civilian attendees stand the most chance of being harmed or killed just as happened there. congresswoman said this. to the politics politicians i say this, have some courage. face your constituents, held town halls. florida senator marco was confrond about why he didn't have a town hall today. >> we need to hear from you senator. >> joining me national political reporter for post. first i want to follow up on what kasie hunt just said. there's a stark difference between what trump is selling and what's been called by

conservatives by years. you go through the issues, it seems that trump ran on and they went in the other direction. i can understand they don't feel comfortable calling themselves trump conservatives. robert. >> bannon has been a mysterious anything not white house. i was leaving cpac to come to "hardball" tonight, he said bannon vision is not domestic, it's global. he wants to up -- >> what's his goal, bannon? >> it's about destroying the right, left norms of american politics.

nationalist verse globalist. it's a different kind of project for the conservative right, not traditional republican agenda in any way. >> that raises the question, if you get power you become the establishment. we saw the senator from arkansas talk to my staff people later. he beganins to talk like he -- >> that's exactly right. you talking about tom cotton and i saw that too. that get to what robert was talking about in totally deconstruction of political norms where labels become meaningless. a lot of us miss trump's appeal, he was different, he spoke like a lot of normal people speak.

the words he used, that's what people were looking for during the campaign. when you look at what's happening in the town hall, people are not willing to wait. they want their lives to be better. they want to be sure they don't lose their health care. >> we're working on the hill, difference between tip neil and -- you recognize in job like congress, there are people sick, old, they need help, special education challenges, these are realities of the world and you come in contact once you meet

the people. what i'm saying is the letters didn't get to congress people i work for -- it's not fighting by the wall or muslim issue, they are bugging his people, i want my medicare, who going to pay my -- co payment. these are real concerns. they are calling it -- affordable care act, aca, it's real. they are on it. people don't when they don't have health care. encome bents have to be grown ups. >> what the tlesh hhresholds fo republicans going along with steve bannon on this agenda. they are getting confronted at town halls. they are in a box of they cannot

break with trump politically at this point. they realize there are caveat to this bannon agenda. he wants to destroy the state but you don't hear him going over social security and medicare. when can this -- >> what happens when steve bannon goes back to la la land. that's the problem, if you have a political career in mind, you're not a guy that comes in like a day trader two weeks from now someone has a hospital bill to say. >> you're right, chris. what you are saying is right. they have constituents with real problems. we saw there when dean went to

business luncheon o that turned into town hall. they want to dean to say come talk to us and dean her had town halls, until they do this, what trump's numbers like like. we don't know, it's clear if this becomes a contain gent and keeps going on, it's going to be a problem in washington. >> he said it's a job, and can i don't want it. it's a real job. but he came home from minnesota and said i don't like this job. it's not being student counsel

president. you to do more. the trump administration reverses -- short run. whethn we come back laverne cox. this is "hardball" where the action is. say carl, we have a question about your brokerage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $6.95 per trade? uhhh- and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab.

this tuesday night, msnbc will have complete 8:00 eastern i'll be joined by ra -- i'll have all-star lineup including michael moore, kathy grif ford, i expect to get interesting

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comcast business. built for speed. built for business. let us reflect on the obviously, but ne glegt. no matter how isolated or afraid or alone you may feel today, no this, that department of justice, the entire obama administration want you to know we see you, stand with you, and do everything we can to protect you going forward. please know that history is on your side. >> welcome back to "hardball." former loretta lynch speaking to the transgender people. say suring them they would be protected. yesterday trump announced it was

stripping guidelines which protected transgender students. that allowed them to use public bathrooms with their gender. jeff sessions expected to roll it back. "new york times" reports sessions faced resistance. push mrs. devos to relent. he took his objections to the white house because he could not go forward with his consent. she told mrs. devos that we wanted her to drop her opposition. tonight, a protest is unway where demonstrators are

rallying. here is what he said on the today's show last april. >> one of the best answers i heard was from a commentator saying leave it the way it is. right now. very view problem. leave it the way it is. people go, they use the bathroom that they feel is appropriate. there has been so little trouble. >> why decision now to reignite cultture role. laverne, thank you for joining us. give us a sense of being transgender and what this reversal would mean to real people? >> thank you for having me here today. when loretta lynch, made that

incredible statement last year, i was so moved and i felt for the first time our federal government was turning a corner. the current administration is revoking these guidelines yesterday feels like we are moving backwards. it sends a message to transgender people that we are not safe in this country. it's stigmatizes us and not be who we are. that's a horrible place to be in. >> why do you think trump is doing this? he grew up in environment of all kinds of orientation. he knows a lot of people with different backgrounds and different or yenation. why would he do this? >> well, i think everyone in

lbgt community understood that the vice president, the attorney general are people anti-lbgt there is not surprising considering the administration, the people he's hired. >> you think they are calling the shots? >> yes. at the end of the day we have to highlig highlight humanity of people. that's why i wanted to be here today to ad transvoices to this conversation. >> let's talk about public policy and the rights issue. you -- you go to men ram or women room. what does this have to do with decision this back forth, which room you're supposed to go into? >> my friends says this

anti-transbathroom bill is not bathroom it's about whether they have a right to exist in public space. we cannot go to work it's about us existing in public space. those who oppose facility with how we identify, it's really about us not existing, erasing transpeople. if you look at states like california bill 766 signed in law in 2013 and implemented three years ago it allowed transgender to use facility how we identify and nothing happened. what happened transfeels supported by the schools and administration and it gives them space to thrive.

that's what we should want for all of our people to be thrive and not be singed out. >> we have to debate the issues. thank you, so much for being great american for coming on here and making your case. >> director and -- i don't know how to deal with it. you saw them, what bathroom is she supposed to use the airport. pretend you were her best friend, what bathroom should she use? >> we have to be clear what's -- >> what should she use? >> we have a question of the

federal government taking power away from lo kalts president trump says let locality decides. >> what restroom should she use? >> depend on where am at. >> just answer the question. tell me what the right answer is. >> i want to have a conversation on this, are you afraid to hear the answer. >> hardly. the way we do this, i interview people when you come on this show you answer the question. >> it's important to have question in one is presented. the aaccommodation is not satisfiedry. you have students afraid of their privacy.

it's -- >> president is getting vofinvod with this. president saying he going to rescind this. go to the bathroom where you're most comfortable. not the one that matches your birth certificate. most people are not transgender. they want to know the situation. >> the guidelines are not bathroom. they were a small part. they were aabout allowing kids to go to school and fit in like other kids. the reason we have federal civil rights laws is because your rieft sloo not be based on what the individual state wants or what individual zip code wants. he knows that. he is an attorney. one of the most scary things about this is jeff sessions

after being attorney general is taking away people's civil rights saying he won't enforce civil rights law and claiming states rights. >> what about title nine. they can't be prejudiced against. >> title nine has been on the books for the long time. this is what this question is about. how is it to be interpreted. president obama reinterpreted that last year. this takes that guidance away and puts us back decades. school to do whatever they want. >> what should they do? >> they could short issue out. what should they do in terms of policy? >> students use the bathroom of the by logical sex.

>> laverne, what do you think about that. he talking about in theory kal issue. laverne you should have rights as transgender. >> ga vin is the young man going to court. they determined that he was covered under night l nine. part what it says is gender and gender stereotype. i think it's important to elevate the experience of transpeople and not talk to

theory. transpeople have been using the path room for many year without incident. all of this bills, claiming to be a privacy bill, privacy of the girls going to be co compromised by me or someone like me in the bathroom, that's not the case. >> should mar use the men's room. >> he would be entire fraeked out. travis is wrong that the obama administration reinterpreted this. remember, the ga vin grim case that laverne is talking about

got to the people court because -- title nine does not protect us because of this. >> i think you're side of the argument is that there are people harmed by a transgender person going into bathroom they are feeling comfortable in. who is harmed? describe them? what's the harm. >> we understand what the harm is. >> i don't. >> 14-year-old in the locker room, someone comes in this male gentles, i'm asking for reasonable discussion consider their rights, that's what we can do right now. obama -- president owe babama w going to mandate this on everyone. title nine is sex

discrimination -- >> the situation -- >> it doesn't cover transpeople he is saying bathroom is based on by logical sex. >> what is your response. i do think air this out in real terms. >> i think it's important when we have conversation with and can about transgender people we do not reduce us to body parts. we are more than sum of our parts. it's dehumanizing to talk about transpeople and reduce us to body parts. we need to look at the evidence, the locality across the country that have protection, everything he's claiming happens does not

happen. because i was able to do that i have been able to thrive. that's all we want. >> thank you, so much. all. up next the "hardball" is coming here while wait for mikence pence cpac speech. we're going to hear what he has to say speaking to the base. this is "hardball" where the action is. why do some cash back cards make earning bonus cash back so complicated? they limit where you can earn bonus cash back to a few places... ...and those places keep changing every few months. the quicksilver card from capital one doesn't do any of that. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere.

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welcome back to "hardball." waiting to hear from vice president pence. we're going to bring you his speech if we can find him. tomorrow morning president trump will address cpac. pence batted clean up for his boss time to time. vice president made unannounced visit to cemetery where hundreds of graves from knocked over. according to "the washington post" some leaders wondering in the vice president was shade doe president or a mere shadow.

ted voe gel, thank you for coming on. you have a new poll out. i got the poll which shows mike pence favorable 47%. trump 45%. does trump know pence better surrogate for him than he is himself? >> we are starting a poll, in this poll, trump most popular person. bernie sanders is most of the country -- >> pence is most popular in the administration. you look at bannon, he is down 20%. the people negative 2 or 3. >> those people are having trouble going to speak to people now.

>> michelle, this is true. he is like dart va dar. >> right. >> he is sort of the tough guy in the white house. kellyanne has had her problems. but pence says yes, i believe in nato. so we get more gas, these are the -- why isn't the president says the smart stuff? >> because the base doesn't want to hear from him. that's not what he got elected for. he is calm, he is stable. when everybody else in the administration is operating up here, hearing his even his tone of voice, can be very calming which is surprising. because prior to the election one would have thought, given pence's idea, people would not find calm in pence.

but that's what he has given them. >> that's what's bizarre, i think cheney was -- pence comes off as sincere. >> he has a hard christian conservative view of the world. >> and he has an understanding of the way politics works. so he translates -- >> who are you going to believe? >> that you have to -- >> nato sucks, they don't pay their bill, the guy says we need nato. >> trump says something that's a little off the reservation you have folks trying to figure out

where to steer, where to find the middle ground and he is the voice of those people. >> donald trump sends out a lieutenalot of tweets about repeal and replace and pence says this -- >> don would say i'm clean up for -- he was gone. now they can clean up with the elephant with immunity. how can they keep doing this. >> it's a little good con, bad cop only in reverse. pence is good cop, trump is a bad cops. what is nato think. is he supporting us, is he not e do we are to pay the bills.

pence says they will, trump says no, they will not. >> trump is entirely crazy because pence is making some sense and maybe that's the strategy. >> i went to cpac ten years ago. they seem to be trumpites. how can you have this mass conversion. republicans free trade. adam smith, now they are all with him on trade, they are hawkish, they is not hawkish. a lot of stuff, immigration they are not plainly anti-immigrant. now they are. how is that happen where 500 people get married in one day. >> are they -- >> are they trumpites now? >> i think they are.

>> they love russia now. >> last year, trump pulled out of the cpac because they protested him. >> they now like russia, the right wing. >> they have following trump. they never thought they would have as much power and they never thought trump was going to win. we have to cater with trump even though we disagree with him on 70% of the issues. >> remember republicans fall in line, democrats fall in love. the "hardball" roundtable is sticking with us. mi mike pence to take the stage at cpac.

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welcome back to "hardball." according to a report today donald trump's former campaign mannier was victim of blackmail. paul manafort's daughter received message from someone claiming to manafort financial dealing with the former pro putin leader. that politician decide message came from him. manafort denied wrongdoing with regarding his work in ukraine. how solid is this? >> the hack is on. >> there was a blackmail threat? >> yes. it could have been an effort to setup politics -- the concerns

that democrats have raised about how -- >> why did trump dumb manafort after he worked for them? >> it was about his work in putin -- >> it was something there. >> it is something there. >> second question, how did manafort get together with trump. was it russian connections? >> so manafort had worked for tom bar recogniack, but manafor worked with trump to broker meetings with pro-putin, the ukrainian guy said he did not send the e-mail. >> how far back does trump go in

russia? >> ten years or so. >> i which is what is the entanglement the trump campaign had with the russians? >> if you look at the tweets and find reporting, once you -- you have to deal with the first question which is the veracity of the tweets, the veracity of the e-mails that were sent to manafort's daughter. if they are truthful, there's more there there. >> here's mike peps, t ee's mik president of the united states speaking at cpac coming out to the applause we don't hear yet. [ cheers and applause ]

[ crowd chanting "usa" ] >> hello cpac! [ cheers and applause ] it is great to be back at the premier gathering of conservatives in the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] you know, this is the ninth time i've had the privilege to address cpac. thanks to all of you and the confidence of our new president this is the first time i'm here as vice president of the united states of america.

[ cheers and applause ] because of all of you, because of your hard work and your support and prayers my family and i have the privilege to serve. and more importantly, because of all of you, my friend donald trump is the 45th president of the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] you know, the president and i have become good friends. it's the greatest privilege of my life to be vice president to a leader of such conviction, vision, and courage. solt pie some people have remarked we're a little bit different. [ laughter ] i'm a small town guy, he's big city. i'm midwest, he's manhattan island. he's known for his bigger-than-life personality,

his charm and his charisma and i'm like -- not. [ laughter ] as i said at the republican convention, i guess he was just looking to balance the ticket. all kidding aside, when president trump asked me to join him on the ticket, i said yes in a heart beat, because you have elected a man for president who never quits, he never backs down, he is a fighter, he is a winner, and i promise you he will never stop fighting until we make america great again. [ cheers and applause ]

23r t from the outset, our president reminded me of somebody else, a man who inspired me to join the cause of conservatism nearly 40 years ago. president ronald reagan. [ cheers and applause ] i believe president trump has given voice to the aspirations and frustrations of the american people like no leader since reagan. i just knew our new president would reignite our cause and do it in our own day. and he did just that. president trump won a historic victory all across the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] think about it. 30 out 506 staof 50 states, inc states no republican carried in a generation, president trump turned the blue wall red. [ cheers and applause ]

and you foe whknow what? the establishment never saw it coming. [ laughter ] the media, the elites, the insiders, everybody else who profits off preserving the status quo, they dismissed our president. and in dismissing him, they dismissed millions of the hardworking forgotten men and women who make this country great. worse yet, they're still trying to dismiss him. they're still trying to dismiss all of us. what they should have learned on election day is this is not a government of the elites, by the media or for the establishment. what november 8 showed even if they didn't listen is that this is still government of the people, by the people, and for the people. [ cheers and applause ] >> we've been listening to vice president mike pence monitor the crowd at cpac. we're back with our "hardball" round table. this is the old time religion. this is a good speech. i can tell it's working with

that crowd. he could have given it 20 years ago 30, years ago, reaganism as defined by he got a lot of votes. >> it's like a donald trump speech. recounting the electoral victory and -- >> but also going back with the incense out for trump -- for reagan. >> the comparison with reagan for some folks in that audience might not sit to well but that's why he can be the balance to trump and why trump likes having him. >> he connects with the religion. >> but the poll numbers, having trump less popular than someone, that would really bother trump but it doesn't because pence is subordinate. >> michelle, there's the numbers of how much people approved from the polling. i get the feeling people believe pence believes it. they used to say that about bobby kennedy. this guy believes what he says. that's why gay people are worried about pence. he believes about his positions. women care about his positions

on reproductive rights. trump is the guy -- he's like a fan dancer. he i he's come up with this shtick. "i'm pro life." no you're not. >> the thing about pence that can be alarming is his aw-shucks gomer pyle i'm just a small town guy. >> golly. >> people like it, it can deceiving. it works with this crowd but it's scary. it hides the scariness of mike pence hides behinds that shucks i'm just a country boy -- >> if you happen to be gay or a minority or a woman -- >> because hiding behind that shield is the mans who does not believe in the rights of the lgbt community, african-americans, he's anti-choice. scary. >> warm sounding, though, isn't it? >> yeah. >> i think a couple things. we learned from gore that a loyal vice president even when you don't believe everything he's saying, at least he's

loyal. vice presidents get respect for that. we have a vice president in the white house now running for president and we haven't had that in a while. >> i agree. >> and that means he's going to have influence. >> i think loyalty is the one thing that covers a lot of sins because loyalty is a good value. that's why we like dogs. >> the question is, does loyalty matter to donald trump? if mike pence's approval ratings get higher and higher, how long does that loyalty last? >> do you think he would get rid of that in the next four years if he's up for reelection? he'll need him. >> he needs him particularly on dealing with members of the hill but we don't know -- >> how do we get to 2020? we'll take that off the table. this russian thing, does it have legs? >> absolutely. >> is this going to go all the way to big time congressional investigation? is this real? >> there are definitely -- for instance, we heard a story today that the white house -- reince priebus actually talked to the fbi -- >> asking them to you have? t -- snuff the story.

>> asking them to vouch for the white house saying there are no senior officials being implicated. >> the response from comey? >> they're going to continue. >> i don't think he's going to get help from comey. ken, michelle, mark, now it's time for trump watch for this thursday, february 32, 2017. republicans are learning the high price of having donald trump as their leader. you might call it sticker shock. you can catch the decibel level at the town meetings of those republicans who dare to hold such open air open door gatherings of contempt for all things trump. what we're hearing at these meetings is the country's stark divide between the 90%, nine out of ten republicans, who support the new president, against the majority of the country that opposes him. this means to be a gop representative between now and november, 2018, is to face a two-front war -- ward off the wildfire events like the cpac convention in washington and face down critics of donald trump coming to you from the left. protect your reputation on one front, your position as a member of congress on the other. this means republicans need to

look both ways before crossing the street or, in this case, before showing up with some alt-right guy you don't think was going to be at that event or voting too much in lockstep with trump when it means hurting people in kitchen table issues back home. tricky business, being a republican these days. it ought to be. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the politicians aren't working for the working people. [ cheers and applause ] >> town hall anger continues across america. >> i live here! i work here! save my health care! >> meanwhile, inside cpac -- >> if you think they're going to give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. >> tonight, the man known as trump's brain takes a victory lap. more signs the resistance is having an impact. and more republicans on the run. >> senator, i thought you were