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or kidney problems or are on dialysis. tell your doctor about any medical conditions and medications you take. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. it's time to turn things around. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. good morning, everybody, it's just 9:00 -- just past 9:00 in the east. good to have you with me, i'm thomas roberts from msnbc headquarters in new york. we begin this hour with a call for an investigation into russia and it's coming from one of president trump's biggest supporters in congress. here's what congressman darrell issa, who used to chair the house oversight committee, he said this last night on "realtime with bill maher."

>> we're going to ask the intelligence committees of the house and senate to investigate within the special areas -- >> an independent prosecutor. >> you're right that you can not have somebody, a friends of mine, jeff sessions, who was on the campaign and was an appointee. you're going to need to use the special prosecutor's statute and office. now, we have to work with them. we don't have to trust them. and we need to investigate their activities and we need tdo it because they are bad people. >> so his comments follow in line with the new nbc news/wall street journal poll on the trump administration's alleged ties with russia. 53% say congress should investigate alleged contact between the russian government and the trump campaign. 54% say congress should investigate russian interference in the election. and 38% feel president trump's relationship with vladimir putin is too friendly. meanwhile the white house is pushing back on an a.p. report based on a leaked document which appears to challenge the president's theory behind the

much ballyhooed travel ban. kelly o'donnell, give us the very latest on the president's immigration plans. we know they were trying to get an updated travel ban out. >> reporter: yes, good morning, thomas. we are told the latest guidance is that it will be sometime later this week when the president will unveil this revised, retooled, updated version of his immigration ban that involves the seven countries. of course the president has a huge speech before a joint session of congress on tuesday night. and so we are told to expect it after that point. but what you were referring to is a partial document that surfaced on friday from inside the department of homeland security that was looking at the seven countries involved and drawing some conclusions based on what we are told is open source formation, meaning nothing classified, but data and information that's available through publicly obtainable sources. and it undercuts some of the president's plan. this, of course, thomas, comes

all through a series of moments when the white house and the president are fighting against media reports and the president is trying to move his agenda forward. a fired-up president trump stirred a conservative audience friday, defending his controversial travel ban. >> we are going to keep radical islamic terrorists the hell out of our country. >> reporter: but a three-page draft document from the department of homeland security, the very agency responsible for enforcing president trump's travel ban, appeared to undercut the rationale behind the restrictions targeting seven mostly muslim countries, stating citizenship likely an unreliable indicator of terrorist threat to the united states. and citizens of the seven countries are rarely implicated in u.s.-based terrorism. >> i will never, ever apologize for protecting the safety and security of the american people.

i won't do it. >> reporter: but the white house dismissed that document as incomplete. officials said a comprehensive report is coming that will be driven by data and intelligence and not politics. the president himself went after fbi leaks on twitter. the fbi is totally unable to stop the national security leakers. classified information is being given to media. >> we are fighting the fake news. it's fake, phony, fake. >> reporter: as the president once again lashed out at his favorite target, the media, the white house defended chief of staff reince priebus, saying he did nothing improper when he asked the fbi to publicly discredit a damaging "new york times" story after the bureau told him privately it was inaccurate. the story alleged trump campaign officials had contact with russian intelligence. >> they have assured me that that "new york times" story was grossly overstated and yip inaccurate and totally wrong.

>> reporter: top democrats jumped to accuse the white house chief of staff of attempting to pressure the fbi, calling it an outrageous breach. a senior l enforcement soue said fbi officials also did not consider any lines to have been crossed. "the washington post" citing u.s. officials reports the white house sought to enlist members of congress, including the heads of the senate and house intelligence committees, to knock down the russia stories when the fbi would not. another distraction over media coverage. the president decried the use of unnamed sources. >> they shouldn't be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody's name. >> reporter: never mind that before he was president, mr. trump cited an extremely credible source on twitter in 2012 to make false claims about barack obama's birth certificate. and of course the white house currently has briefings with reporters and we are often asked to simply say senior administration official or white

house official, not to use the names of specific individuals working for the president. so there's a bit of a disconnect there. and that, of course, tends to be when the white house is trying to put out its own take on a story or put out its own information. and, thomas, you probably also heard there was a briefing with sean spicer that was invite only. that is a very unusual circumstance, not unprecedented but unusual. some news organizations that cover the white house day in, day out, were not included, among them "the new york times" and cnn. and so this tension between the media and the white house continues and different sources have said that one of the issues that this white house is finding is that there are employees in the government that disagree with some of the trump policies and that's been part of where some of these leaks may have come from or when documents surface that come from various agencies, that not everyone is on board with some of the president's policy ideas and some of the things he wants to do. thomas. >> kelly o'donnell reporting from the white house. great to see you, thank you.

joining me now is yamiche alcindor from "the new york times" and heidi przbyla, both msnbc contributors. heidi, i want to get your reaction just straight out of the gate to the republican congressman, darrell issa, on bill maher saying you're going to have to use a special prosecutor statute to investigate the allegation of any trump associate ties to russia. how big of a deal is that to hear it from congressman issa? >> i think it's a big deal and it's part of what we're seeing from a number of republicans who aren't just of the liney graham and john mccain ilk saying that this issue needs to be further investigated. it's also a direct tie to what we're starting to see out in those town halls, which is that u.s. voters are starting to get very upset not only about obamacare and about the immigration ban but they're really starting to demand answers from their elected leaders about this russia issue.

and of course the timing of the administration appearing to look like it wants to quash any new information that is coming out about this issue i think is also going to just up the stakes for more republicans, like issa, to have to speak out and want to try to get more information on this for their constituents. >> and yamiche, the more that the white house or the president calls us the enemy of the state or treats us as an enemy of the state, it's like the wag the dog moment. we end up spending time making ourselves the story, having to cover this, as opposed to talking about the realities and allegations of any connective tissue or what bipartisan groups on the hill want to do to investigate russian interference in our election or any russian communications between the trump campaign prior to this election. >> donald trump, i think, and his administration really understand the media. they really understand also just

creating stories. this is an idea that i think they're taking into the white house. there's this sense that the more that he argues with the media, the more that he talks about the media, the more that he rails against the media and we cover those stories. i think you're right to point out when there's all these other issues going on that we need to talk about. there's this idea that he's going to be making thiig speech on tuesday and rolling out a budget that might be making drastic cuts. last week i had a story about the social safety net and we might see cuts to housing, to food stamps, to medicaid, so there are all these different things going on, including the fact that there's a foreign country that now everyone -- that everyone agrees interfered with our election, which is really unprecedented. even when that word is being used in a word that's unprecedented. so the fact is there's all these other things we're not talking about. in some ways how can you not talk about the fact that news organizations like "the new york times" and cnn were barred from a meeting with the press secretary of the united states. that is news but it's just

limited time for what we can talk about and the trump administration understands that. >> just so we pointed out, the pool was there so the information could be disseminated to everybody so cnn and other folks, but it was just basically like in dodgeball, spicer picked other kids, the conservative kids to go in and play and left those other folks that they find to be more aggressive in their coverage out. so it was a winners and losers kind of pick for the folks that they decided to let in, including with the pool. but let's talk about the leaks, and the dhs draft that came out really undercuts the white house argument on the seven countries, the muslim ban. we know that there could be a new executive order coming after tuesday. but yamiche, how much is the potential of this leak and the fact that we're covering it also a setup to almost call us fake

news. next week when they come out wi a new executive order and the fact that we covered a leaked cument? >> here's the thing. i think it's hard to say whether or not this is a setup but we've seen from this white house that we've seen executive orders floating around that people have written about that then somehow gets squashed. we know we are covering a president very much affected by the way he's covered in the media. if we cover something and he census there's not a consensus and the american people are recoiling a little bit about that idea, then he might change his mind. then there's also that they might genuinely change their mind. i think if you report about something as a draft, you hope that your readers and the people that are watching you understand that you're reporting on just that, a draft, it could change. but i think the fact that it seems to undercut the president, this seems to say, look, countries and where you are born is not the best indicator for terrorism, so a travel ban that

focuses on countries and not other factors can be very problematic is important. >> heidi, h.r. mcmaster, that's president trump's newly appointed national security advisor, this is "the new york times" reporting on this, made a comment to his staff saying that muslims who commit terrorist acts are perverting their religion. he also called it instead of radical islamic terrorism, he calls it unislamic. so radical unislamic terrorism. how big of a departure is it for certain cabinet members that come out in complete contrast of donald trump on policy as we've seen from kelly mcmaster and eventillerson? >> they have actually seen a number of them break with the president before they were even confirmed. for example, with the secretary of state on russia. and in this case i don't think that it's necessarily off message to what the white house is trying to do, because when that new order comes out, the first question that's going to

be asked of the courts and of people who would challenge it in courts is whether it is a muslim ban. so to the extent that the white house can try and decouple this from looking like it is some kind of an unconstitutional ban on religion, that is in their interests. of course they have other people in the white house who are at cross purposes with that, like stephen miller who said this is essentially the same order, just with some tweaks. but if this is to stand up in the court system, they're going to have to convince everybody, including the judges, that what they heard before out of the president's own mouth, which was that this is a complete and total shutdown on muslims is not the case. >> so i just want to get a forecast from both of you as i'm looking at donald trump's twitter feed from this morning. just from 46 minutes ago he says great optimism for u.s. business and jobs with the dow having an 11th straight record close. big tax and regulation cuts coming. yamiche, paint a forecast of

what you expect from tuesday night. he also tweeted about how maybe millions of people who wanted to make america great again should have than own rally. is the joint session, his speech to congress, going to be a big picture focus or more of a campaign litigation moment? >> i think it's -- if the white house has been listening, if the white house is going to move forward past even his inaugural address, then i think it's going to be a big picture moment where he's going to start talking about what he actually wants to do, the policies he wants to implement and really about the budget and what he thinks is going to be the priorities that he wants to set up. >> heidi, what do you think? same thing, big picture or do you think it's a campaign speech? >> a mix, a mix, but in terms of how the american people receive this, this is his first big test as to how he's going to -- or whether he's going to continue to articulate that populist economic message and be specific about what he's going to do for those working class voters who previously voted for barack

obama and who are now have very high expectations from him. the first few weeks of his administration, we've heard mostly about cultural divisive issues and not about those bread and butter, you know, economic issues that are important to those voters. >> all right. we shall all see come tuesday night. enjoy atlanta, i am jealous. heidi, i think you're by the atlanta mart, the big furniture mart if i'm correct. >> i am, to my right. >> i knew it. i love that place. yamiche, great to see you too. thank you so much. so we've got the big kumbaya moment at cpac. did steve bannon and reince priebus convince everyone that all is well behind the scenes at the white house? what we gleaned from that appearance onstage together after this.

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we don't win anymore. when was the last time we won? did we win a war?

did we win anything? did we win anything? we're going to win. we're going to win big, folks. but we're taking a firm, bold, and decisive measure. we have to. to turn things around. the era of empty talk is over. >> so there we have president donald trump whipping up the crowd at the cpac conference yesterday in maryland. the fouh d of the conference takes place today. i want to bring in lawrence jones, host at the blaze. loerc lawrence, the president coming yesterday, really loving the crowd. the crowd loving him. how were the president's remarks received there? >> it seems like everybody loved him here. as you remember, this was a divided cpac last year. he didn't even show up. but he showed up this time and i think conservative republicans are starting to come together. it wasn't that case last year

during the primary. >> no, everybody loves a winner. everybody loves a winner when you show up, and i think that they are fired up by what he represents and also the people that come with the administration, because we've seen senior advisor steve bannon taking to the stage on thursday with chief of staff reince priebus. they kind of showed some brotherly love on that stage. did they convince people that all is well behind the scenes and there really isn't a power struggle between these two brands of conservatism? >> yeah, i mean i don't think it's so bad to have the power struggle. like i said, we have to hold the president accountable. i will celebrate him when he does things that's appropriate and when he doesn't, i will criticize him. i think that's good for the party. i think what we saw in the last administration, that there were people, including the media, that carried the water of the president and that didn't help america. and so what i'm hoping is that we can all be critical but

always when the president does something good, we'll celebrate him. >> and i know that that was a point of topic about campaign promise and accountability from steve bannon. you're a conservative talk show host and many in the audience, lawrence, thursday was probably the first time they have had an opportunity to hear from steve bannon directly, so i want to play a bit of his remarks. take a listen. >> if you look at the wide degree of opinions in this room, whether you're a populist, whether you're a limited government conservative, whether you're a libertarian, whether you're an economic nationalist, we have wide and sometimes divergent opinions, but i think the center core of what we believe, that we're a nation with an economy, not an economy just in some global marketplace with open borders, but we're a nation with a culture and a reason for being. and i think that's what unites us. >> so there we have steve bannon, and again he said hold us accountable for the campaign promises that we've made. when you hear a conservative voice like that and knowing that

he is right there next to the president in the white house with so much sway over the president, how much does that give you a forecast picture of what's to come for the country that is in ways untraditional for what many americans expect? >> well, i think we've been doing things the right way. do i have concerns about people in the administration? you bet i do, but i had concerns about valerie jarrett being next to president obama. at the end of the day, i want results and i want results for my community. and you can expect me as a conservative libertarian, as someone that is passionate about my community, the black community, to hold them accountable. i was just telling some friends at dinner the other day, this new deal for black america, i'm going to hold him accountable. i need to see results. i'm not talking about omarosa or all the other strategists, i need to see him in the community making a concerted effort to improve jobs, to improve the broken education system and to

make lives better for black folks. and what is best for black folks is what's best for all americans. so that is what i'm specifically looking for from the president. i won't be carrying his water. i will celebrate him when he does the right things, but when he's not doing the right thing, i will hold him accountable. >> and that is a campaign promise that he made and also villified certain communities, more urban communities, because of violence and distress. my hometown of baltimore was one of the communities that he brought up a lot on the campaign trail and since he's taken office. so what's your timeline look like for results? >> i need to see something happening within the next two to three months. i'm not expecting it to be a miracle in my community, but i kneel need to see the concerted effort to get it done. >> for communities like baltimore that neverovered after the late '60s riots, the

death of martin luther king, dr. martin luther king, you reap what you so and that takes decades. so how can you have a sense of accountability on this administration with just months instead of in the decades of time that we've seen for this country for progress or depression? >> right. so here's the problem. and also this is a story of the media as well. president obama had eight years to do some things. even in chicago from where he calls his hometown, and the media did not hold him accountable. so like i said, i'm not expecting a miracle, but i am expecting to see a concerted effort to get things done. you guys didn't hold obama accountable in our community and black folks were really upset about that. so although we appreciate the culture and something that we can identify as seeing somebody that looks like us, love the same music that we like, dance

like us, we were still concerned about the job and the broken education system and a other host of issues. so yes, i get what you're saying. hold him accountable, but we didn't do that for president obama. >> but doesn't the right take any responsibility, especially for president trump and the narrative that he gave birth to, the birther narrative, of having the president to prove his own heritage and there was such consternation and the president walked a very fine line of having to balance what it meant to be the first african-american president and it just wasn't the first black president, he was everybody's president. >> he was everybody's president. but he was also a black man. he made a lot of promises to our community. and when mr. trump, donald trump, now president trump did that to president obama, i was very upset with it and i made republicans know that what he did was wrong and we would be in trouble for it.

it would come back to haunt us. but we can't just say he was the president of all america, that is true, but he made a concerted effort to tell the community if we did not vote for hillary clinton that it would be an insult to his legacy. but he didn't do anything for us. that's the problem. he didn't do anything for us. and so although he was the president of all america, he used his influence in our community to get the votes, but weidn't see the results. we saw results in the latino community. we saw him doing different town halls with them. we saw daca and the concerted efforts to improve their circumstance. we didn't see that as it relates to the black community. >> lawrence jones, host at the blaze. have fun on the last day there. >> appreciate it. >> at cpac. i look forward to having you back on. thank you, sir. >> i appreciate it, brother. thanks for having me. speaking of president obama, we have not seen much of him since he left office but he did make an appearance in new york city. take a look at this.

[ cheering ] it was a freaky friday. trump takes over cpac and obama takes over new york city. he headed to broadway to see a play with his daughter, malia. will the president play a greater role in facing the opposition to president trump? i'm going to ask former presidential democratic candidate and former governor of maryland, martin o'malley, coming up.

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welcome back, everybody, i'm thomas roberts here at msnbc headquarters in new york. at the half hour here's what wee because watching for you. the democratic national committee is getting ready to vote for its next chair. the vote is to begin around 11:00 a.m.

i believe they're kicking things off with ballots at 10:00 a.m. and this is where the winter dnc meeting is taking place. that's atlanta inside. joining us now from atlanta, nbc's alex seitz-wald. i've just been looking over your great note from earlier today. i will not give out your cell phone number at the top of that note. is it 10:00 a.m. that they start with the ballots and we might know within an hour if they have to go on to round two, round three? >> reporter: right, thomas. we've got speeches around 10:00 a.m. from all the different candidates. tom perez, who's the more establishment pick, obama's former labor secretary, and also keith ellison, the more bernie sanders side. then we'll get balloting starting around 11:00. it really depends how quickly things turned around. if this race is close, it could go multiple rounds of balloting. there will be moments between those ballots where the candidates will try to button hole those undecided members and convince them to come to their

side but this also could be all over in one round. in the last 24 hours, tom perez' supporters have felt very confident, feeling very bullish going into this. jamie harrison, who was a former candidate told me he thinks this could be over in just one round so we'll have to stick around and find out. one thing everyone agrees on, they are ready to get this behind them and over with. a lot of the rebuilding that the party needs to do after november's election has been put on hold as they wait to elect a new leader, so every democrat wants to move on with that, thomas. >> alex seitz-wald reporting in atlanta for us, thank you very much. straight ahead, i'll speak with former democratic presidential candidate, martin o'malley. you'll recall he had a public feud with the former dnc chair, debbie wasserman schultz. he'll join me to speak about how democrats must speak up for themself and for the majority of americans who voted for hillary clinton. us truck. oh, did i say there's only one special edition? because, actually there's 5. aaaahh!! ooohh!!

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coming up in less than 90 minutes, democrats will vote for

a new dnc chair and it comes as all week republican lawmakers face backlash from constituents who want answers about what congress will do to push back on some of the trump administration's policies. joining me now to talk about how democrats can harness voices of dissent is governor martin o'malley. he was the one who led the state of maryland from 2007 to 2015 and is also a former presidential candidate within this last election cycle. sir, i don't think it would be unfair to say also had a public feud with the former dnc chair over how some things ran, correct? >> absolutely, thomas. we had very few debates in the democratic party this year. i think thearty needs to be opened up. we need a fresh start. pete buddigieg for dnc chair. >> he is in the race, probably the underdog against ellison or perez. >> that's right. >> but when we talk about the new dnc chair, and i know that you kind of flirted with this opportunity a while back and passed it up. how does the next chair heal the

rift and also harness the momentum of what we've seen across the country for those democrats and grassroots efforts? >> well, you do it first and foremost by putting forward a man to lead our party who's actually from a red state. pete buddigieg is not only from indiana but has been a mayor there. very successful and re-elected mayor in south bend, indiana. he speaks with a directness and a clarity that we're accustomed to seeing from mayors. secondly, we need to organize in all 50 states and that's what pete knows how to do. he's not someone who sits around the dinner salons of washington. he's not a congressional insider. he's from the middle of our country. he can speak to all people. we need to harness this energy that's coming up, especially for millenials. by the way, pete buddigieg is also a millenial. we need to harness the energy from the millenials, a well spring if you will throughout our country, and harness that to

reinvigorate the democratic party. >> are you painting him as the antithesis to donald trump? other than being a millenial, he kind of has a lot of the same pros trump has as being an outsider. being able to organize in red states. >> yeah, but here's the difference. he's actually governed. donald trump has never governed. this is an administration whose malice is tempered only by their incompetence. pete buddigieg has balanced budgets year in and year out. he's a mayor. he meets people where they're at. he can speak to the hopes that people have around their own family's dinner tables and what they want to their kids and their kids future. howard dean said if our party doesn't pick pete to be our dnc chair we're going to be regretting it for years to come. this isn't about the past, not about old relationships, it's about forging a bigger and more inclusive democratic party. you hear us all the time, rather the leaders of the democratic party saying, oh, we need to

bring forward new leaders. we need to bring forward the next generation. by god, here's the time. you have a man who's served in the navy, he served successfully as mayor, he's willing to throw himself into this task, and i think he would take donald trump on with a clarity of purpose and an honest plain-spokenness that would be really refreshing for people throughout this country. >> governor, you need to be in atlanta for pete right now instead of in baltimore because it sounds like you're on the stump for him. the people that matter are going to be inside atlanta and voting for him potentially coming up within the next 90 minutes. but as you talk about the future of the party, as we look at the past and the certain decimation that's happened since 2008, not just at the federal level but 31 states republican governors compared to 18 that are democratic, that's down 36% since 2008. republicans controlling this wide majority of state legislatures, what is the message for democrats to coalesce around on the path forward? >> the message is that there are

some things tt we can only do together. one of those things is building an economy that works for all of us where wages go up and not down. for all of the distracting illusioning and donald trump scapegoating and authoritarian acts to retaliate against the press, none of those things are going to make wages go up and make life better for the hard-working people of this country. so our message has to be around wages and jobs. it has to be about the security of all of us together. it has to be about individual freedoms. without the constitution, we don't have a country. so this is a principled resistance but it also creates and lays out the better story of the road ahead. look, america's best days are still ahead of us, notwithstanding this detour, but we have to start acting like americans again. realize that we're all in this together and we need each other and have to help each other if we're going to succeed. that's the message and that's the message resonating in places.

today there's a special election in delaware. i campaign thread for stephanie hanson. if she's successful today, that means that delaware state senate will be democratic. i was out in iowa a couple of weeks ago. i've been to utah, indiana, texas, south dakota. those states that democrats used to always ignore, we need to pay attention to. we need to stretch out our battle lines and fight for the country we carry in our heart. and that's what pete buddigieg can do and that's why i'm optimistic in the next rounds of the voting down there in atlanta that the democratic party is going to return to its true self and put forward a candidate that can actually speak to the future instead of the divisions of the past. >> there you go on the stump again for pete. we will keep everybody posted on how that vote goes. governor, good to see you. friends and family texting me, oh, you have governor o'malley on. great to see you, sir. thank you very much. back to the streets, a new protest to protect planned parenthood from federal budget cuts. next on "a.m. joy" the leader of a group organizing protests against the trump administration.

joy has it all coming up.

planned parenthood supporters are sending a message to speaker paul ryan at a rally scheduled to take place in wisconsin later today. it comes after the speaker pledged to strip the organization in his state and congressional district of funding. beth is in kenosha, wisconsin, inside a planned parenthood office in the speaker's district. what are you hearing from the constituents on this issue and the mixed feelings about the benefits or pitfalls of planned parenthood? >> reporter: yeah, thomas, i am in this clinic in kenosha, wisconsin. it is the largest city in paul ryan's district here in wisconsin. planned parenthood serves 21 different clinics here, about 60,000 women come to take access to the services. now, there's going to be a major rally up in milwaukee today, cecile richard, the president of planned parenthood is going to be here. the issue for paul ryan is the provision of abortion. while federal tax dollars do not

go toward providing aabortions, they do fund planned parenthood clinics. he did not respond to an interview request but we spoke to a person at the right to life yesterday. >> we understand the hyde amendment doesn't allow taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, but we have a conscience issue when my taxpayer funds go to an abortion provider who does have a conflict of interest. they do have an incentive to encourage a woman towards an abortion decision. >> reporter: but you know, thomas, we met a woman yesterday, stay-at-home mom of three people who said she actually caught her precancerous condition at an appointment at a planned parenthood and she said other women could be threatened in the event that planned parenthood funding is stripped. >> defunding planned parenthood means people like me then,

people like me now not having the access. if there wasn't planned parenthood when i was 20, i may not have had anywhere else to go. those abnormal precancerous cells may not have been detected. >> reporter: we'll go up to milwaukee shortly to catch the rally. back to you, thomas. tnks so much. the sounds of cpac, what to make ofhat you heard and when the president's chief strategist spoke this week, can we explain what economic nationalism is? we'll attempt it after this. when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand. and best overall brand. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

>> if you look at the lines of work, i break it out into three vertical of three buckets. the first is national security and sovereignty, the second line of work is what i refer to as economic nationalism, the third broadly is what is deconstruction of the administrative state. so president trump's chief strategist steve bannon speaking at cpac on thursday appearing in

public for the first time since the inauguration. great to have you don't both with me and carrie let's start with the deconstruction of the administrative state, what does that mean? >> it's going to be a message that really resonates with a lot of americans. what you talk about is the overregulation. i think that everybody out there particularly anybody whose try to run a small business or being involved in these kind of red tape, we know there's too much red tape out there and we know to roll some of this back and try to embrace a more common sense. this will unleash the jobs and create whole opportunities for people. that's a big winner, not just with republicans and those at cpac but i think with americans any where. >> is that in the same bucket of economic nationalism? >> they're two different buckets

but just on this idea of quote, deconstruction construction of the administrativestate," bill mar put it well, it's a guy that's working at quiz know's and i'm going to burn this place down where i work. we are running the government and we are going to disassemble, deconstruct major elements of the government. now there's nothing wrong with some deregulation that can be healthy and it can contribute to helping some industries but it's not a cure all for job growth by any means. also you don't want to disassemble the government. a lot of these regulations protect the health and safety of the american people. >> but jonathan -- >> do you think it's a pan sea to job growth. >> it's not that. let's remember what we're talking about here. there is a big problem in terms of the administrative state that's agencies which are not

elected by the american people, they're just giving the power to write laws. a lot of the republicans -- jonathan let me finish. if you look at what's happened with the epa under president obama and them just writing the most sweeping environmental regulations in modern history. this was the clean power plan which would have massive consequences on the economy and really just was a big power grab. >> no. >> yes, it was. we should all particularly you think liberals would recognize that we want power to be where the people have a say. that's what our elected branches of congress not with whoever happens to be in the epa. >> you would stand against the executive order that was written by steve bannon that included him basically to be with a permanent seat on the national security council. >> i think we should get back to trying to restore this idea that congress is meant to write the laws and make very clear what the laws are supposed to be and

the executive branches is supposed to be enforcing the law. >> you would be against steve bannon be involved in an executive order that donald trump really wasn't that well briefed on. >> i don't know enough about that particular executive order but i think -- >> i think you do. >> president obama's executive order, a pen and a phone. that's not what our constitution said. >> the new president hasn't done anything except sign executive orders. >> you're right. that's a problem. >> so he's going against -- but the idea -- we're not talking about common sense regulation. when steve bannon went to cpac he was talking about disassembling major chunks of the u.s. government. the people didn't vote for that in the last election. that's a very radical agenda and when he talks about economic nationalism, that's code for trade barriers, a trade war. which will cost according to most economist, many of them conservative, four, five, 6

million jobs -- >> we know president trump did run on a trade war. he wanted to bring everything home. he was against tpp and nafta and he thought that that was a winning strategy to people who have felt effected by job loss and that this was going to help them bottom line in their wallets. >> there's a difference between some real problems with tpp and nafta which people in both parties agree on and getting into erecting these trade barriers which is what economic nationalism means. other countries retaliate and then we have a trade war suddenly everybody loses and many of the conservatives in that room understand that because they are free traders, but they're so corrupted by their grasping for power that they applaud somebody who is saying something against everything they've stood for, free trade.

>> everything -- every action will have an opposite and equal reaction. there will be consequences. but we'll see. the address from president trump will be on tuesday night. i wish we had more time, carrie as always. thank you for your time. i'm sorry thomas roberts coming up next on am joy, the transgender issue heading to the supreme court. ry? wasn't me! the cheeks don't lie, chet... irresistibly planters.

>> the media didn't think we would win. we are fighting the fake news. it's fake. phoney, fake. a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. they make up sources. they're very dishonest people. i say it doesn't represent the people, it never will represent the people and we're going to do