hello, i'm sheinelle jones in new york. it at the white house, pushback after an apparently leaked memo at the department of homeland security that appears to counter some of the reasoning behind the president's travel ban. the race to lead the democratic party, the vote happening today. could a dark horse candidate surprise everyone? president trump heads to capitol hill tuesday to address a joint session of congress. what should we expect to hear? will it be another campaign-like stump speech? and a big moment on the

stage at cpac this week. did steve bannon and reince priebus convince everyone that all is well behind the scenes at the white house? what we took from their appearance, next. the democratic national committee is set to pick their next leader today. they're meeting right now in atlanta for day three of their winter meeting where they will be casting their votes for a new chair soon. joining us is nbc's alex seitz-wald. alex, how would you describe the mood there now? >> reporter: good afternoon. this meeting just broke for lunch. the candidates were just alerted. we're about 30 minutes out from the nominating speeches that will kick off the voting. tom perez and keith ellison are the two candidates to watch, perez comes from the more establishment wing, ellison from the bernie sanders wing. tom perez seems more confident,

i just ran into him in the hallway. the lesser known candidates, pete buttigieg, the mayor from south bend, indiana, and sally boynton brown, they don't have enough votes but they could sway this either way depending on how tight the race is between the top two votes. martin o'malley supports pete buttigieg. take a look at what he said on our air the other day. >> you hear this all the time, the leader of the democratic party saying, oh, we need to bring forward new leaders, the general generation. by god, here is the time. you have a man who served in the navy, he served successfully as mayor, he's willing to throw himself into this task. and i think he would take donald trump on with a clarity of purpose and an honest plainspokenness that would be really refreshing for people throughout this country. >> reporter: a lot of people very excited by mayor pete buttigieg. a 35-year-old rhodes scholar,

harvard graduate. he doesn't have a big conconstitueco constituency inside this room but he could be a king maker today if he throws his support behind ellison or perez. >> what's the buzz, could this be a quick decision or could this go on for a while. >> reporter: the way this works is there's 447 members of the dnc, arranged by their states, sitting behind me. you know a majority of the votes. a plurality won't do it. with seven candidates in the field, they could split the vote and it may be tough for any one candidate to get that on the first ballot. if they don't, the candidates will have ten, 15 minutes for more lobbying, more button holding. you'll see their whips zoom in on a couple of members they've been targeting to try to win on the second. it could be one ballot, it could be seven ballots, we'll have to wait to find out.

>> alex seitz-wald, thank you for talking with us this afternoon. one of president trump's biggest supporters in congress is joining the chorus of republicans calling for an investigation into russia. here is what congressman darrell is issa, outgoing chair of the oversight committee, said last night on "realtime with bill maher." >> we're going to ask the intelligence committees of the house and senate to investigate within the special areas -- >> independent prosecutor? >> you're right, that you cannot have somebody, a friend of mine, jeff sessions, who was on the campaign and who is an appointee. you're going to need to use the and prosecutor's statute and office. now, we have to work with them. we don't have to trust them. we need to investigate their activities. and we need to do it because they are bad people. >> his comments fall in line with a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll on the trump administration's alleged ties with russia.

53% say congress should investigate alleged contact between the russian government and the trump campaign. 54% say congress should investigate russian interference in the election. and 38% feel president trump's relationship with vladimir putin is described as "too friendly." meanwhile the white house is pushing back on an ap report based on a leaked document which appears to challenge the president's theory behind the travel ban. let's bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house today. kelly, what's the reaction from the white house over this dhs draft leak? >> reporter: yes, to give people a sense of what this is about, we were also able to obtain this three-page report from the department of homeland security. it is taking an assessment about the president's seven-country travel ban that affects mostly muslim countries and limits immigration from those countries. this report finds that those people with that citizenship from those seven countries are not any more likely to be responsible for terrorism inside

the u.s. now, the white house is telling me that this is an incomplete report, that it was based on what's known as open sources, meaning publicly available information, not classified information, and that a more comprehensive report is still to come that will include that kind of data intelligence and would not be political. so i believe that the white house is saying that while this report could be part of the end result, it is not the outcome that they expect when the president gets what they call a threat assessment from the intelligence unit at the department of homeland security. so this is one of those instances where a policy of the president is being sort of quietly contested by a document surfacing from within the government and then the white house pushes back on it. we expect that it will be this week that the president will give us a revised version of his travel ban. that's been tied up in the courts. it was put on hold because of the courts. they're looking at ways to tailor a new version that would

have the same goals but would address concerns raised by the court. we expect that will come out and be made public later in the week. at least that's the latest guidance the white house has been giving us. >> would you say this is another leak or in this case is it a little different? >> reporter: it depends on how you define leaks. some people define leaks as classified information that is put out. this isn't that, this is nonclassified information. but it is a case were government workers, career professionals, who have access to information who make that available to reporters who are working on this story, looking at how will the travel ban be changed, how will it be implemented. of course the department of homeland security would have the responsibility for carrying out aspects of this plan going forward. so in some ways it's just reporting that results in getting this new information. but for the white house it appears they're frustrated that a partial report, what they call a draft, surfaced before they were ready for it to be made

public. >> nbc's kelliy donnell, thank you, kelly, a busy day for you, i feel like i've seen you at least 20 times today. jonathan allen and tara palmieri, good afternoon to both of you. >> good afternoon. >> tara, let's start with your reaction to congressman darrell issa saying that they'll have to have an independent prosecutor. how big a deal is this? >> a huge deal, if he's going to push for that. i mean, an investigation is something that will obviously result in more information for us. there will be subpoenas, there will be leaks, there will be stories, and we'll get to the bottom of what actually happened. we'll see if issa puts his money where his mouth is. >> jonathan, she's right about that, talk about the media and feeding the cycle, you know? >> i think it's a big deal because it's a crack in the

republican armor. you've seen the effort by the leadership in the senate and the house in the republican party to try to keep this investigation under wraps, the house not doing anything, the senate keeping it within the confines of the intelligence committee where a lot of information is classified. now you're getting a well-known house republican who has fashioned his reputation on government oversight, saying they need to make this an independent deal. that's something that, a, democrats will be able to point to, b, as tara points out, reporters are going to point to in their stories. and c, issa is in a very difficult position in terms of his home district. he barely won reelection this time. it's going to be a signal to other republicans who are in tight races that it's not going to acceptable to a lot of their constituents if they try to sweep this investigation under the rug, which we've seen in polling that most americans would like to see investigation of this. >> tara, you were at the white house yesterday when politico

and other media outlets were excluded from the briefing. other administrations have excluded certain organizations in the past, early on in the obama administration they attempted to exclude fox news from the press pool. does this feel any different to you? did you see it coming? >> i didn't personally see it coming. i thought it was straininge tha they changed the on-camera gaggle to an off-camera gaggle in the spokesperson's office. when we were making our way into sean spicer's office, the person who was shepherding us in said to some outlets, "absolutely, absolutely," and was cold to some others. when i asked can i have a statement about why this is happening because i thought it was unusual, the word that came out of this aide's mouth was, "you're threatening me." that's not -- >> what? >> exactly, that's not what we were doing, i was trying to figure out why politico wasn't allowed in, why cnn, why

buzzfeed, because that's a story, at the end of the day. in my opinion i think this was all a very big distraction, a way for the media to focus on themselves instead of the real story that was out yesterday which is that the chief of staff to the president, reince priebus, asked the fbi to try to kill stories about the fact that there were communications between campaign aides and high level russian officials. that was the story of the day. but instead, by blocking media, the story became about the assault on the first amendment. that is not really what -- that was by design. essentially that entire thing was by design. what we should be talking about right now is the story yesterday they tried to kill. >> a lot of people have echoed that same sentiment. jonathan, do you agree? >> tara is absolutely right, the real story here is reince priebus talking to the fbi and the shenanigans that went on around that. the white house first denying the story as it was told to the reporters, and then backing off

of that denial. there are some serious implications of the white house chief of staff interfering or even making a call, much for the same reason that republicans were upset when bill clinton met with lorettaynch on a tarmac during the presidential reason. the white house chief of staff, for the same reason, needs to leave the fbi alone. only an investigation will bring it out. that's the story that's going on. obviously what was said to tara was terrible and if the white house feels that they're threatened by peopling, te telle truth, that tells you a lot about the white house. >> republican strategist rick tyler, listen to what he said about president trump consistently attacking the media. >> it's beginning to feel preemptive to me, that is, there is something that future story coming, believe it or not, that they want to make sure the reporters reporting it are questioned. we talk about some outlets are

fake news. it looks like a discrediting campaign that's preemptive to me. i'm concerned about it. >> is there a future story, they tries to discredit it now so by the time we get there, it won't be as big of a blow? either one of you, what do you think? >> i think they're masters of distraction and that's what they're trying to do right now. they're saying, look at that fire over there while we put out the real fire behind you. and yes, anything that has to do with russia they end up creating some sort of press controversy. they would rather make the story about the opposition. it appeals to their base, it's a great story for them that they're lashing out on the mainstream liberal media, but at the same time it creates a whole other story. the focus is no longer about the real issue, which is the campaign's relationship with russia. >> jonathan, it seems like tyler was a bit worried. do you think there's a bigger story coming occuut about russi? >> a, if i had it, i would definitely report it. b, it's likely there's more to

the story. i mean, there's obviously investigation to be done. i think what's really going on here is a major effort to delegitimize, for lack of a better term, the mainstream media because they are the people who would provide scrutiny on a trump white house. most white houses don't have the audacity to try something like this. but i think the idea is to make sure there's nobody keeping an eye on the white house. >> quickly, tara, another hot topic, the associated press report about the dhs finding that suggests citizenship is not a reliable indicator of a potential threat, this dhs draft. how much does it undercut the white house's argument about combatting terrorism by targeting these nations when it suggests there are minimal threats from these countries? >> i think the dhs report is obviously really troubling when they're trying to roll out a second version of the sexecutiv order next week, whicheans there will be a new flood of headlines and every story will reflect the dhs report as well. that's not good for their

messaging. it's important to remember, even with the 9/11 attack, the attackers came from saudi arabia, a country not among the seven countries. i lived in europe for a very long time. they're dealing with a lot of issues with isis. many of those isis warriors are coming from syria. and the landscape has changed since 2001 in terms of where, you know, terrorism is coming from. yes, the report is troubling when they're trying to put out their own message. it may be, there are many different factors and, you know, a lot of these things have to be considered. they will make the statement that we don't want it to be europe, next week had they roll out their next version of the executive order. but yeah, it's not good for their case. >> jonathan, tara, i have to leave it there, good conversation for a saturday afternoon. still ahead, and then there were -- 49? the chances that the state of california could secede from the united states. he state are growing the economy,

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voting is under way but no word yet on a new chair of the democratic national committee. now, whoever fills the spot has a tough job. the party can't seem to get behind one frontrunner. all week republican lawmakers faced backlash from constituents who want republicans to stand up to the president and his administration. joining me to talk about how democrats can harness voices of dissent is willie brown, former mayor of san francisco. good afternoon to you. >> good afternoon to you as well. >> we saw those rowdy town halls this week, a big part of the message from constituents to republicans was to stand up to the president. "democrats have cast aside any notion of conciliation with the white house." instead, it says, they're

mimicking the republican approach of the last eight years, the party of no. is that the plan, no chance of working with the administration if there's agreement? >> no, that's not the plan, it's the reality of this administration. this administration seems absolutely indifferent to anybody who disagrees with them on anything, sees zero merit in any argument being made any place and under any circumstances. it's the deputimocrats who have said, let's be rational and let's be truthful. >> some say we should be the party of no, others say we should be rational where we can. what's your thought? >> this democracy only works if we reach agreement, it may be one that satisfies democrats or satisfies republicans or should be somewhere in between. but if you are a responsible elected official, at all times

you've got to be addressing the problems of people. and you've got to be prepared to take recommendations from wherever they come. >> we have so many people who have been here on saturdays and say, you know what, when the republicans were the party of no, you know what, it worked out for them. the democratic party has had quite a blow, 31 states have republican governors compared to 18 democratic. that's down almost 36% since 2008. of course republicans control a wide majority of legislatures. how do democrats come together and coalesce around a real message that's not just about opposing republicans? is it what you were just saying and will they listen? >> first and foremost, you've got to know that as a democratic party operation, we are still basically a national party. we are not doing the job state by state as we regularly have done in california and as the democrats did in nevada in this

last series of elections, and they did extremely well. we've got to take it back down to basics. that's what bernie sanders was saying. that's what a number of other democrats are saying. we obviously are successful nationally. hillary, as governor dean says, got the vote that was needed. he just didn't get the states, that's all. in that regard, we need to go back. we need to reverse the trend of all these state legislative bodies becoming republicans. governor ships becoming republicans. and we can do that by addressing the issue indigenous to the location. >> it's interesting that you say that. i heard a guy mention the other day that the democrats have this challenge, they have this broad net, you have the republicans, people talking about this illegal immigration and lgbt, and people on the other end who aren't all the way to the progressives. is the net too large, there are so many people in this one

basket that they can't be of one thought? >> there is no question, we cannot be and i wouldn't want to be of only one view. believe me, i would not want to put anybody out of the baskets who happens to disagree with me. in the state of california, we've allowed our farmers in the central valley to be the advocates for whatever they are advocating. we've said to those who are on the coast, yeah, we know you're concerned about the environment, but you should pay some attention to the homeless issue. and so we are doing all the things that need to be done to try to keep everybody in place. and we are successful. >> can i ask you quickly about this whole concept, what are the chances of seceding showing up on the ballot? there are issues of the administration threatening to cut off federal funds because of being a sanctuary city,

california could threaten to refuse to send money to federal funds. >> i don't think california should just stand by. we ought to exhaust every means to be responsive to those things we care about and those things we advocate. if it includes the business of trying to make sure the federal government understands that the dollar value that comes out of california, that california must receive, otherwise we're going to employ some tactics that will cause us to be respected and our views to be respected. i believe that that will come. frankly, if there is a major effort to remove resources from this state without it being equally applicable in other states. >> what are the chances that that could actually show up on the ballot? you say it's more than just a threat. >> well, let me let you know that california is notorious for putting everything on the ballot. we are an activist democratic

operation. and believe me, it could very easily show up on the ballot if in no other way, to just say this is what we think and these are the numbers, get the message. and believe me, the republican congress persons in this state have gotten the message in many cases. the state legislative bodies are adopted by democrats with simple majorities. every statewide office in california is held by a democrat, and it's because of the aggressive nature of which i speak. >> i have to leave it there. it was an honor to talk to you, former mayor willie brown. have a good day. >> thank you. the struggles and concerns from those who support and oppose president trump. we go directly to the voters, coming up.

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welcome back. i'm sheinelle jones here at msnbc headquarters in new york. at the half hour, here's what we're monitoring. president trump is spending the did day at the white house. his latest tweet reads, "great optimism for future of u.s. business and jobs, with the dow having an 11th straight record close. seven minutes before that he tweeted, the media has not reported that the national debt in my first month went down by $12 billion versus a $200 billion increase in obama's first month. an hour before that he said, maybe the millions of people who voted to make america great again should have their own rally. it would be the biggest of them all. lawmakers head back to washington from their home turf this weekend, bringing with them an earful of concerns from voters who flooded town hall meetings across the country this

week. nbc's vaughn hilliard joins us from louisiana. what are you hearing from voters? >> reporter: we're not at a town hall today, but 24 hours ago, there was a town hall just across the street. the vibe is clearly different this mardi gras weekend. members of congress are heading to the capitol to go into session on monday. yesterday you heard people that were frustrated. despite the dancing you see here, there were real concerns over health care, and an obamacare replacement plan. we talked with some people in the street. >> as a working lower middle class working person, you know, i just think that's terrible. i don't know how this was supposed to be helping. i feel i've been cheated.

like i said, my premiums are so high, my family can barely afford to pay the monthly premium. >> i disagree with just about everything he's done. it's anti-american. it's not who we are. we are a country of free press, for one. you don't exclude the press. i have two daughters. i have two granddaughters, i'm for women's rights. >> reporter: only four republican senators actually ended up holding town halls over this recess, one of those being bill cassidy. these are people showing up with real concerns. for a lot of these places, it comes down to an understanding of whether donald trump is somebody that is going to be representing his populist message on behalf of these middle american voters or whether he is somebody that is ultimately not looking out for their best interests. you come to a place like louisiana, you're going to get some dancing and you're going to

get some mixed opinions. >> vaughn, full disclosure, i've any been to mardi gras. i didn't realize, obviously the party goes on all day. >> reporter: it started at 8:00 a.m. this morning and i think it's going on for a couple of more days. they kicked us out late last night, i'll be honest. >> vaughn hilliard, thanks for checking in with us. planned pthood are holding a rally in wisconsin a short time from no after speaker paul ryan pledged to strip funding from the organization in his state and congressional district. beth, can you talk about the message they want to send? >> reporter: yes, speaker ryan actually wants to strip funding not just from his state and congressional district but across the country. he wants to get rid of federal funding for planned parenthood because the organization provides abortions. as you know, the hyde federal amendment precludes federal money from going toward the provision of abortion.

but paul ryan and several other republican lawmakers say that organization shouldn't receive federal money at all because they provide abortions. as you see, the rally isn't going yet, it will be in a couple of hours. it will be an important gathering, probably several hundred people here, the reason is to pressure paul ryan right here in his backyard, in his home state. cecile richards, the president of planned parenthood, will be here among regular activists and regular folks who say they use planned parenthood and don't want to see it going away. cecile richards before coming up here was spending time in kenosha, a city in paul ryan's district, that has a planned parenthood. we visited that clinic a while ago. it's one of 21 in the state that serves 60,000 patients in wisconsin. i spoke to the case manager there, the woman who manages that office, and asked her, what it would mean if she lost funding for that clinic and what she would say to paul ryan if she had the chance.

>> planned parenthood is at the very foundation of the medical delivery system. if you take away that foundation, it leaves you with nothing to build on. it leaves people with no place to go. d it is important and a priority. what we do here matters. it's important to the lives of our patients. it is important to the health of this community. i have no doubt that if he were to come and see us and speak to my staff and to be able to see the work that we do, that i believe that it would have a huge impact on his willingness to support limiting access to planned parenthood. >> reporter: and that's going to be a message you'll here a lot of people in this room sending to paul ryan as well. back to you. >> beth fouhy, thank you for your reporting in milwaukee today. what can we expect from matt schlapp, he'll talk about whether there's a conservative

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i think that we have shown an abundance of accessibility. we've brought more reporters into this process. the idea that every single person can't get their question answered, we've actually gone above and beyond with making ourselves, our team, and our briefing rumor accessible than any prior administration. i think you can take that to the bank. >> that's white house press secretary sean spicer just yesterday defending the last-minute decision to hold an invitation only media gaggle in his office rather than the expected open briefing. let's bring in peter emerson and elise jordan. good day to both of you. >> hi, how are you doing? >> elise, i'll start with you. what do you make of this move by spicer and the white house? is it that big of a deal, that

much of a break with tradition? >> i think it's completely inappropriate and ultimately to the detriment of the trump administration, because the reporters you're not letting in on these briefings just have more time to dedicate to investigative reporting, which is where i think a lot of the stories about the trump administration still are waiting to be unearthed. i think it's inappropriate, but ultimately unsurprising given the tone that this administration has had towards the press. i do think it really is not in their own interests to do this. >> i was going to say, elise, why do it? >> i think they were trying to make a point and to make a distraction, just to create a distraction, to actually take -- the press are famously self-absorbed, god bless us. this is what we're talking about now, we're not talking about the chief of staff was in contact with the fbi, urging them to come out against some of the

media reports about the trump campaign's collusion with russian intelligence. we aren't talking about that. we're talking about ourselves. >> on that note, then, earlier this morning my colleague thomas roberts talked to jill abramson, her former paper was one of those not invited yesterday morning. >> things like the white house gaggle, like staged press conferences, i wish more reporters in washington were out doing their own enterprise story than focusing so much on what is essentially often spoon-if he had, spin-room-type information. >> peter, it sounds kind of like what elise was just saying. what's your response to that? >> it's partially correct, jill's got it right, the white house briefing room is just a cage, and once you're in there you're just waiting for some meat to be thrown out to the

cages. i'm not that concerned about what spicer did, because in every administration, you want to punish those that you feel have ininaccurately reported what your boss has done. but what trump and his team have done is taken it public. usually those things happen behind closed doors, they're done and handled much more elegantly. but there's a whole concept here i'm starting to call cluster bombing, where as elise says, they start to distract by doing these little things while over on the left hand or the right hand, other things are going on that nobody can possibly follow because it's too much. >> i want to ask you guys about reince priebus. but really quickly, peter grabbed my attention, has this happened before and we've just not talked about it? >> yes, having been a press secretary, i can assure you, every politician and press secretary sits at the end of the day and bemonies tans the fact

there's a press. but it serves a purpose, not just for a free press and facts and truth but also for advertising initiatives. >> and as a press secretary, you wouldn't have a job. it's a cycle, we understand that. white house chief of staff reince priebus is under fire today for asking an fbi official to push back on reporters' stories about russian contacts with the white house. the white house says they didn't cross any lines. what do you say, elise? >> it's inappropriate, and you're creating just a facade of using power inappropriately, where there's smoke, there's fire, so to speak. he did himself no favors by creating the impression that he wanted the facts clamped down immediately. >> peter, is the story getting overplayed, that they do this behind the scenes, has this happened before? >> oh, i'm sure it has.

the point i want to make is there's the law, and we are a nation of laws. but there is also the appearance of impropriety. and that appearance of impropriety has damaged and brought down administrations from federal to state. reince priebus also reached out to the director of the cia. even though this has happened i'm sure in the past, these sort of off-channel conversations, in the midst of what's going on and the questions about russia, this is not good. >> i should say for the record, the fbi says the assistant director reached out to him first. i'll clear that up. i want to squeeze in another topic, trump's controversial senior adviser, you guys know steve bannon, made a rare appearance at cpac and offered his view on how government should work. let's listen to a piece of that. >> if you look at the lines of work, i kind of break it out into three verticals or three buckets. the first is kind of national security and sovereignty. the second line of work is what i refer to as economic nationalism. the third broadly line of work is what is deconstruction of the

administrative state. >> elise, how should we interpret that? what is he saying? >> i think he's saying they're bringing in a wrecking ball to washington and this is what president trump had promised to do while he campaigned and now he's making good on those promises. you look at some of president trump's most prominent supporters, people like peter thiel, this is why they supported donald trump, because they think washington is out of control and they think it's better to burn it all down than to work to improve the existing institutions. what i found so striking about this appearance by steve bannon was how articulate and what a good surrogate he is for donald trump. so it's interesting that he really shies away from moments raising his public profile because he knows that ultimately he's playing the long game and it's better to play it behind the scenes. >> peter, what's your reaction to bannon's comments here? >> i thought it was simply a confirmation of what the campaign was all about, what the state of the union message will be about, is literally about, as

elise says, taking a wrecking ball to washington, but at the same time trying to provide enough hope so that he can solidify and maintain his base, keep the house of representatives in line, try to keep a few senators from calling for bipartisan investigative committees, and at the end of the day, creating so many different diversions with all of those activities that no one will ever be able to zero in on the truth. and my fear is now the truth, facts, have lost any kind of validity. we don't know what the truth is or not. he tweeted this morning, the president, that the national debt has gone down by $10 billion, i will be you just reported. it's impossible. it's not impossible that it went down, but it's impossible that it went down as a result of anything he did. >> i think you're on to something there, pete he, actually i don't think, i know. president trump is set to address a joint session of congress on tuesday. what do you guys expect out of that? elise? >> president trump gives these

major addresses like his inaugural and he does not play to the historical precedent. i think we could see anything. this is a speech normally, it's not called the state of the union because it's his first year, but it's the state of the union model, and that -- i worked in the white house speech writing office, it's an all hands on deck, soliciting input from every agency, trying to fight cram-ins of every pet policy initiative across the gamut of the federal government. i don't think we'll see that from donald trump this year, because he hasn't been soliciting interagency consensus on anything he's been doing so far as president. i think we could be potentially surprised by yet another unorthodox address from donald trump. >> peter? >> completely agree. it's going to be fear, which is one of his major themes, it's the way he diverts. it's going to be a matter of hope, that's jobs, health, and security, and then the final one that i'm really curious to see about, if he deviates from the

teleprompter and starts talking about hillary clinton or sweden or anything of that sort. >> thank you guys as always for talking with me on this saturday. still ahead, pete are just alluded to this, you may be getting your news fix from twitter, but there's a new theory that your reliance on social media is perhaps bad for democracy. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia

a vast majority of people now turn to social media to get at least some of their news. but can dependence on social media for information be damaging to democracy? a new book called " #republic" joins us cass sunstein, good day to you. you say "democracy needs people to come across a variety of viewpoints and much of social media limits that exposure."

talk to us about what you mean there and why it's so damaging. >> back to the founding period, there was a lot of talk about the need to talk to people who think differently from oneself, to confront people from other nations, people with very different political views. a democracy really requires that, because people can learn things and because they can understand their fellow citizens. what we have increasingly in our country is notwithstanding the wonders of facebook and twitter which can be helpful in many ways, people are sorting themselves often into echo chambers and information cocoons in which their twitter feed or facebook friends are just telling them some version of what they already know. that can make you think of other people as enemies or adversaries rather than fellow citizens with different perspectives. >> the challenges, you're right, some people view content that mirrors their opinions. if there's another viewpoint, it's sometimes seen as false or their own side will challenge its credibility. what should we social media

users do about this? i say that realizing a lot of people, cass, this is the way they want it, they don't want to hear anything else. >> some people think i just want to hear things that are like what i already think and i don't want to hear anything that challenges me. but most people aren't really like that. there may be an algorithm that sorts them into a little cocoon which isn't their own as operation pirations. you know, some what i think, i feel kind of humble about, i want to hear the other side. i think as users, we are changing from monday to tuesday, from february to march, and democracy entails or tuesday selves, not our monday selves, the selves that think humility is a good idea and to understand people who disagree sharply with

us is important for two reasons. first, they're fellow citizens and we need to know what they in good faith think. and second, on one or two things or maybe seven things, we might ourselves be wrong. >> finally, then, what does the future look like, where are we going as far as content, how it's generated, how it's distributed on social media? >> it's really up to us. i think there are two possible paths. one is a continuation of the kind of fragmentation and polarization which we're observing, which will lead to challenges for governance in areas where we needn't by that sharply divided like immigration. the bad path of fragmentation i'm describing, it's very possible. on the other hand, things are unpredictable. we could well go in a different direction where #republic reflects a return to the aspirations of the founding era

where new technologies are enabling us to learn from one another and go in directions that are wonderful in terms of problem solving, because we get a ton of information across the to one another. that could even exceed what madison and hamilton and their friends thought possible. >> we have the tool, we just have to use it correctly, i guess we could say. cass sunstein, good conversation, thank you. >> thank you. moments ago one of the candidates for dnc chair has dropped out. we'll tell you who, and who he might be endorsing now. plus tmatt schlapp, the hea of the american conservative union, talks about how this came together. erman dance group. i wore lederhosen. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we're not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland.

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