>> the plot thickens. thank you for joining us. thank you for watching. i'll be back tomorrow night. follow me on twitter @greta. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. rolling disclosure. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. undisclosed meeting that took place between key trump official and the russian ambassador. the attorney general jeff sessions met russian ambassador twice during 2016 and did

divulge that. here is how he said he came to that decision after consulting with his staff. >> they said since i had involvement with the campaign i should not be involved in any campaign investigation. i have studied the rules and considered their comments and evaluation. i believe those recommendation are right and just. therefore, i have recused myself in the matters that deal with the trump campaign. >> late today the "new york times" reports jared kushner janed michael flynn at meeting at trump tower. taking together the reporting shows disturbing pattern of rolling disclosure with the president inner circle. here what he know.

during the republican national convention the week of july 18, senator sessions spoke with the russian ambassador. early september, the news meddle was established. "the washington post" said they were investigating the a kremlin plan to disrupt our election. days after, jeff sessions with his russian ambassador in his office. on october 7, obama administration accused russian of the intering with the elections. russian tried to help trump get elected. during that same month, michael flynn met with -- on the same day the obama administration issued sanctions on russia. one day after, december 30, russian president vladimir putin

announce he would not retaliate in response to u.s. sanction, "the washington post" reported on flynn's call with russian when pence learned flynn had discusses. -- just last night. today sessions recused himself from the investigation involving trump campaign. today relearned about additional between flynn and ambassador. we are joined -- i want to start with this. greg, you start. it seems, this calls for -- it seems like the trump

administration acts on what we read in the newspaper. the story breaks that flynn met with the russian ambassador and having not said so. all of a sudden he has to go, attorney general recused had imsever after the story broke after he met with the russian ambassador. all of this meeting, all of this odd, evidence of some kind of collusion or only when we discovered does this administration act and then act -- >> these guys are a terrible cases of amnesia about their meetings where the russian ambassador. it took sessions seven weeks since his testimony and his confirmation hearing it come back to clear it up. there was many chances for him to go back to him and say what

you said in the hearing about no contact don't up remember meeting with the russian ambassador in your office, he doesn't do that until today. >> let's watch that. he asked him did you have any kind of information about meetings between surrogates for trump during the campaign and the russians. >> if there's any evidence of anyone afterat affiliated with e trump campaign what would you do. >> i'm not aware of any activities. i have been called a surrogate at a time or two and i did not have communications with the russian and i'm unable to comment on it. >> very well. >> let's put that together.

michael. >> what do we know about that interview, why didn't he give us the truth and nothing but. >> kushner met in temperaturump with the ambassador of here is the all the meeting that happened, here are the folks. we have nothing to hide. each i'm this comes out, why would kushner have said something. >> doesn't he talk to his father-in-law, the ambassador came -- we are to presume that the russian ambassador is in the building right now. they have been wondering what was the relationship. he said he is here, dad. >> now we get into the question of what did trump know and when did he know it. we nodon't know that the meetin

were bad. did he know about the meeting. this afternoon, there's two more reports about two other trump officials meeting with the ambassador. push it out. >> the attorney general to resign right now. how do we explain, he called a meeting. he hosted a meeting. he had three staffers joining him, professionals, he said. he put the team mtin the room wh him. after three days after this, in fact throwing it to trump, here is trump's number one person. he acts if this -- he could not

imagine, it never came up, the campaign, the russian interest in this. he can't remember what the meeting was about. >> the russian ambassador wants to get to know people. so this guy coming to see you is a shock, someone going to talk about it. if they did talk about it, what did they talk about. it had is how the pattern are, we have meeting, there's nothing to look at here sooner or later, they are like, blame the media, we don't know. the behavior suggests is isn't, there is something there. >> you want to get story yourself, if you want to end disclosure, why don't president trump get a list of everybody that worked for him.

list every place you lived in the whole night. they want to know who you are. why don't he ask the people empty your pockets, roger stone, tell me every time you had a meeting with the russian, what was it about to get this over it. if he is innocent. >> otherwise it's going to drip, drip, drip. he talking about sort of filibustering and talking about his trip in 1991, he remembers details about it, then in somehow the subject of ukraine came up, of course it comes up in this meetings that's why the russian ambassador is in his office. >> let's take his testimony off the table, he provides his answer back to congress.

>> you have to be careful with leahy. >> -- >> in his press conference attorney general sessions says he does not remember talking about politics. >> i don't recall but most of these endorse are gossipy and they like -- there was in campaign season. i don't recall specific political discussions. >> it's like local may berry, why it's awe shucks, we're sitting around talking. there's no country that's our greatest adversary right now. and possibility screwing up our campaign and he chatting with

the guy like there's nothing else going on in the universe. >> he didn't get that -- i don't know what's going on, that's now how this works. >> where are we going with this? a recusal is not going to keep the democrats happy. all democrats want him out and he is not going to quit. he going to be recuse and that leaves his deputy to run this shop to replace sally yates who going to run this? >> the man standing between them is jim comey. may be there's creditability on the issue because -- >> if he goes after trump. >> comey may have ability to do

though row investigation on trump -- >> let's listen to -- he in barrel sean spicer. defending attorney general sessions is an interview on fox. >> he has been 100% straight. the question asked is whether or not he was aware of trump campaign doing some in kpa capacity the answer is no. he was aware -- he made statement that was 100% accurate and he stands by it. >> you don't think he needs to recuse himself? >> no. >> that's a solve pill. last night, we're looking with a the lot of information you're

getting when putting gig saw puzzle together. we have frame. something to do with the campaign, something to do russian wanted done, they wanted to humiliate democratic process. we know trump said i want you to find evail put it out, he was kidding about d publicly. a lot of phone calls, a lot of meetings, what do we have to fill? what's the journalist challenge coming out of it as of today. >> we don't know where this end. as matt and mike have said, these meetings could be reviewed as legitimate. if this had been honest about the meetings it would have withstood the scrutiny. >> can you imagine --

>> that's what astonishing. the reason there's so much volume because the russian's ambassador job is to make contact with the administration. he is trying to make -- >> he working hand and glove, it's all together. >> the trump administration is reacceptive to this outreach. there's a reason that michael flynn is willing to have the text relationship -- >> he only one -- >> he is. >> this is a administration that can be clumsy, this is a administration that doesn't operate like a well oiled machine. maybe they are just disorganized or maybe they are just allows the russian to come in and to

have meetings that doesn't mean much but look worse than they are. >> there's a lot of collaborations -- putin knows what he is doing. he knows what he is doing when he gets a reward, it's like a coluco lump bow episode. so it's not like they don't know at all and the ambassador does. >> look, he knows -- >> he knows everything. >> what i don't think we have consistently seen from trump is he knows everything that's going on around him. >> the russians do. >> this may just be allowing them in the front door and not

realizing. >> he playing passive the whole thing. >> putin's people knows what he wants. i don't think trump people knows what he wants. one guy is doing this, one guy doing that. >> you want to know platform in m moscow and you -- it's not the luckest day in my life and -- >> what matt is referring to is confusing we saw today. there's no reason for sessions to recuse himself. meanwhile sessions says he was recusing himself. >> they don't know the rules of what i'm guided by here.

>> what did trump know. like you say, kushner having a meeting in december, in trump tower in the -- >> in the midst of this controversy and never said, dad this is what i did. >> you were there for a few days, right. >> yes. >> thank you. coming up next reactions from capitol hill attorney general recusal. senator amy prosecutor from minnesota and congressman joining us after the break. special edition? because, actually there's five. ooohh!! aaaahh!! uh! hooooly mackerel. wow.

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welcome back to "hardball." disclosure in close allies have engaged with russian officials continues to dog this administration. nearly 70 democrats have gone further and asked attorney general sessions to resign from

his post. here is what nancy pelosi and chuck schumer had to say today. >> the top cop in our country lied under oath to the american people is grounds for him to resign. i remind you this congress impeached a president for something so far less having nothing to do with his duties as president of the united states. >> because the department of justice should be above reproach, for the good of the country, attorney general sessions should resign. >> i'm joined by senator from minnesota and calling for special prosecutor. i want to demer from speaker pelosi had to say. that wasn't something outside of his responsibility as head of state of this country. let me ask you about that. you're forrer prosecutor. what do you think of the

statement about the attorney general when he said i didn't have meetings with the russian what i meant by that was as a surrogate for the candidate. >> when senator frannen said at the least it's misleading. that's why it's incredibly important that we call him before the committee to answer the defennive questions about what did le discuss with the ambassador, did he talk to the campaign before or after. answer the questions under oath. those questions allow us to get to the bigger picture. he had this meeting three days, three days after just after the president of the united states announced he wo not role back the sanctions against russia. president obama met with putin

and he announced that to the world. it's no coincidents that am boar, during that day is meeting with senator sessions. then you have the fact that flynn met with the ambassador the exact same day when president obama expanded the expansion and can paul manafort resigned. i'm interesting in this and how this fits into russian's attempt to influence the election. >> that was september 8, that -- all the of them were filled with accusations about the russian involvement in the campaign. then you go to the senator and he was the chief surrogate for trump in the campaign.

he sat down with three people, he act as if there was no conversation about the campaign, no conversation relating to politics at all when he cannot remember what it was about. that's the part i could not believe. the russian ambassador comes into the office, and he acts like it has nothing to do with the fact he was number one senator supporting trump. it doesn't square out. >> exactly. nor does it fit in the timetable that the obama said to the world he would not roll back the sanctions. the other people in the meeting know things about it. that would be helpful to get that information. then you want to know exactly what the discussions were before and after the meeting with the trump campaign people. that's why this recusal of something i have been calling

for weeks is just a partial one. he doesn't include the time period when you have flynn meeting with the ambassador, when have president's son-in-law meeting with the russian officials. he needs to come before the committee under oath and i believe we need to have independent commission, something i called for way back in january with senator cardin and others. >> why would anybody have russian ambassador come into trump tower where he lives and work, why would he want him to meet with the son-in-law and have us believe he knew nothing about it. we know how close relationship, we know how he trusts him to make big decisions, doesn't he ever tell him, i was meeting with the russian ambassador lhe

here, by the way i didn't tell you. >> we need the investigation to continue but also the independent commission. what's at stake is our democracy, 17 agents saying it's an attack on our democracy. when that happens you have to find out we have an obligation to get to the bottom of this. we cannot let them happen again ask we want to know what the connections are. >> thank you. let's bring congressman, i want to -- i was doing this work back in -- i don't remember what i was doing, trying to figure out watergate. it's not all party line. you were an example not calling

for recusal. is this enough for the attorney general to say i'm not going to get involved in the case? >> i favor recusal. >> is it enough? >> i think the attorney general should come become the judiciary committee -- >> under oath? >> yes. >> do you believe he gave that kind of answer when asked to -- did he give a forthright answer or narrow answer. >> i'm not sure. >> he should answer the question clearly and completely and i hope there's an opportunity for him to do that. >> do you think the president is telling us all that he knows. his son-in-law who he cherishes and respects met with the

ambassador. did trump ever tell the vice president different did they ever tell anybody that his son-in-law was in the meeting? trump knows about the relationship with the russians we're only getting this drip, dripping drip. >> i'm not sure he knows about all the of the meetings that occurred. >> he asked the russian to dig in and discovery the 30,000 e-mails. what do you think of that? >> i think the russian should be running his campaign. i don't like the russian government, i think they are are up to no good. i'm cosponsor that says the sanctions should not be a -- i

think the russian government is up to no good. >> do you think he playing footsie with them? >> it's possible. >> who do you trust at justice. we have a deputy general to oversee any investigation of this russian connection. we have jim comey director fbi, they don't like what he does, do you trust him? >> i think jim comey with the honest broker in all of this based upon prior experience. >> to keep the wagon centered? >> yes. that productive meeting in the intelligence committee with jim comey. >> it's all on him. do you think congress should be able to rely on fbi to get

investigation if they wouldn't admit they investigating -- this is the problem. they wouldn't say they were investigating this russian thing yet u.s. senate relies on the fbi to get it. they are not admitting they are doing it. >> i would imagine intelligence committee, problem had a better handle on that. >> thank you for coming on. >> thank you. up next, new reports say obama white house official scamble to save documents. before they left out, lock all the documents, nobody can get rid of it permanently, they want to make sure there's multiple cops to survive new team. this is "hardball" where the action is.

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welcome back to "hardball." there's another bombshell story about trump and russia that broke later today. about possibly contacts between associates of donald trump and

russians. to leave a clear trail of intelligence for investigators. according to the times some of that came from -- associates of trump. intercepted communications -- for more, i'm joined by jeremy. help us, i have been trying to put this together. we know it has to do with the 2016 elections. we know that trump was out there looking for help. he was had all kind of meetings before and after the election. i think it's an extraordinary number of contacts with us and the russians.

a lot of friendly meetings. >> that's rights. a looming question, the house, the senate, and the justice department, is was there any quid pro quo. they had conversations but did they do a deal. >> just keep this us, we're going to remember this, is that criminal? >> it depends if they were engaging in a deal to throw the elections. >> how about saying thank you, that criminal? >> i don't. >> how the hospital talt that the trump people are offering. we'll bring in michael flynn to meet with you. that's fluffy, top senator jeff

sessions. there's a lot of hoes pi talt going on here. >> they are considered a major ally for the trump team and the white house. there's a reversal of foreign policy. we have a policy that no one can understand. >> i think the russians are playing chess when we're playing checkers. i think americans go there on busy, thinking no one is watching them, they are watched every second. they have the expense accounts, the russians ghot it all. here we have evidence, disinformation, propaganda put out to destroy hillary. they are good at this, they keep

spewing it out there. they know what they are doing and he are working together, they are hacking into john podesta and looking into jennifer pal mer ree and to them it's part of a plan to screw us up. >> this was flplanned in the kremlin. that's what the intelligence community said. everyone agreed russia tried to -- that's the past. going forward is was any collusion between the trump campaign. >> trump knows a lot of things. he knows manafort is it a lot of

business. he knows that his guy michael flynn was getting wined and dined with putin at table with him. he knows as you evidence that there's somebody playing footsie with russians on his team. how can he not know it? >> he became convinced that the russian talking points on what was happening in europe, were correct, and -- >> up next, president trump would not release tax return during the campaign. we're going to talk about that. and a lot more in "hardball." we can pound on that door and he is not going to give up tax returns. you're watching "hardball."

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welcome back to "hardball."

rolling disclosure about trump associates or campaign efficient officials have lead to the recusal of jeff sessions. the leader of the democratic release statement saying they only do the right thing when they are caught doing the wrong thing. the democrats say the answers could be found in the president's tax return. good luck with that. let's bring in the roundtable. shan, i want you to start, there's a pattern, now that we have established this trump administration is reactive. the president blames the press

for leaks, when the news comes out it moves him to admit things he would not admit the day before. why is attorney general recusing himself because the stuory is i the paper. this is a president that denies value and awe then city -- why not come out and put everything on the table. i cannot imagine this administration saying we'll detail our contacts with -- >> why would they do it if they are clean. >> i'm not sure -- >> i want everybody to work with me to give me a list of all my contacts. >> isn't it ironic that this is what trump continue to hammer hillary clinton on throughout campaign where are missing

e-mails. russian hack her. show us where they are. she got hammered by this drip, drip, drip. she wouldn't admit to anything. she kept joking about it now he is apparently better than crook crooked hillary. >> donald trump used his opponents weakens and the things glaring about him haves a shield. everything he hammered her on he is doing had imself-. here we are -- he grew up in the media. you need to get ahead of a wad story. he is always reacting. he should do -- i should have been saying this -- he needs to do a pink conference. >> what does that mean?

>> she was wearing -- she sat there for hours answering the questions from the reporters. if donald trump want to go -- >> she knows about the shoes before it drops. all the time he sitting on the information, he knows -- that's why i think he kept flynn around because he knew jared also met with the russian ambassador. >> this is is what makes trump -- any admission of weakness is an admission that you're all weak. there's that is -- that you're a tin pot. >> saying you shouldn't recuse yourself. >> putin never bows to pressure.

he waits and then once the spotlight moves on he reacts. >> does this story have legs? >> yes. >> explain how? >> -- are going your paper and the times are trying to get the information. we're getting hour by hour. i was on the course with brian and we had news arrive about obama people trying to gather up and protect the people. >> there are many more shoes to start falling from the sky. >> the thing we have to keep in mind, you're an old news guy, the stories have been worked on for weeks, if not months, we didn't know what's about to

drop, but the newsrooms to. >> you have basso paying salaries. >> yes. i think print has the capacity, with the number of reporters to do the investigative work because it takes a lot of digging. it's working because so many people are working every morning working it. the roundtable are going to stick with us. there this is "hardball" where the action is. and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab.

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invest with confidence. >> a couple things to keep in mind. march 16 is when the united states l hit its debt limit. after that, the secretary of the treasury will use extraordinary measure. >> how long can he do that.

>> he can do it up until november and december. the bipartisan center announced today that would be the range but the key date to keep in mind is october 2, that's the day that could be the exit when the u.s. government runs out of money -- >> so that's why he needs democrats to help him because the tea party people won't help him. he needs 218 votes in the house. >> there's a payment that has to be made on october 2, military trust fund. retirement trust fund. >> so while all of this russia stuff has been happening, there's other russia stuff happening. two guys in moscow are like the russian jerky boys who have been crank calling the people in the u.s. congress, including mitch mcconnell, maxine waters. >> they're punking him? >> yes. >> chances for a 9/11 style independent commission to investigate russia are the highest they've ever been now that sessions has recused himself and the white house made the mistake of the house and senate intel committees to shoots down reporters' stories tainted their commission. >> who makes the decision? >> the congress. >> let's keep pushing that.

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[ rumbling ]

trump watch, march 2, 2017, disclosure is when a politician tells you something you already know. when the newspapers have the story and he's decided they can't hide it anymore. that's one of the reasons politicians are not trusted to bring you the bad news. that's the newspaper or the networks job, the report what

the politician would love not be reported ever. look at what we've been through. it has to do with trump, his people and the russians, the press reports, the trump's national security adviser spoke with the russian ambassador but he denied talking to him. bingo. flynn resigns. the press reports late last night that attorney general sessions met with the russian ambassador last year. edge to attorney general sessions recused himself from any investigation into the russian involvement in the 2016 election. bingo, rolling disclosure, when the poll digitician admits some that's been reported in the news. not because the politician wanted to know it but because you already do. it's why people don't trust politicians. here's an idea -- why doesn't donald trump order everyone who worked from hyim in the campaig to list on a statement all the times of all their meets with the russian. there can't be that many. he says there aren't any. write them down. he should do the same about himself. if it comes out then that there were other meetings taking place

or other topics discuss wed eel know who was hiding something and lieding. maybe i'm naive to think a politician would be so honest but why not ask for one? why continue to play cat-and-mouse? let's ask together -- mr. trump, mr. president, give us the list of contacts with the russians, now, before the press catches you again. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> do you still have confidence in the attorney general, sir? >> total. >> a white house in crisis. >> when were you aware he spoke to the russian ambassador. >> i wasn't aware at all. >> reporter: the nation's attorney general caught deceiving congress about contact with the russians. >> i didn't have -- not have communications with the russians. >> now he's stepping down from any investigation into trump's campaign. >> i have recused myself in the matters that deal with the trump