meanwhile, who is sergey kislyak? how he found himself at the center of the controversy and what did he want? right now president trump on the attack, going after democrats who want jeff sessions to resign, ahead of a trip to florida where he'll visit a private school this afternoon to promote school choice. the president is slamming democrats who want attorney general jeff sessions to resign overs legal and political questions piling up over his meetings with russia's ambassador. democrats say recusing himself is not enough. and the president in a statement calls it all, quote, a total witch hunt. russia's foreign minister, sergey lavrov said the same thing last night. >> do you see this as a witch hunt? >> i don't think what was said about that meeting i had with the russian ambassador was

legitimate. i think it was hyped beyond reason and i think it was unfair. i was glad to be able to address it today. >> this morning vice president mike pence is also facing fire. he right now heading to wisconsin for a meeting with business leaders. of course he was a fierce critic of hillary clinton for her e-mails. now "the indianapolis star" reports that he used a private e-mail to conduct business, at times discussing personal matter and that personal account was actually hacked. we begin with hans nichols at the white house. let's start with attorney general jeff sessions. the president is defiantly defending him. what's the white house position now? >> reporter: well, what's interesting about the president's defense is normally in washington when you have the president or the press secretary says they have full confidence in a cabinet secretary, that

usually means they're about to get their marching papers. what's different about this is the president did have criticism about his attorney general when he was supporting him. he says "jeff sessions is an honest man, he did not say anything wrong. here's the criticism. he could have stated his response more accurately but it was clearly not intention ainte this whole narrative is a way of saving face for democrats, democrats are overplaying their hand. they lost the election and now they've lost their grip." it's mixed with frustration. they don't quite see what the point is and they're basically shrugging it off. listen to how sean spicer

described it when he was asked about sessions' answers in that congressional testimony. >> i think senator sessions did his job. he was asked very pointedly whether or not there had been any contact with the trump campaign in the capacity of him being a surrogate. there was not. he was 100% straight with the committee. >> so you don't think he should recuse himself? >> there was nothing to recuse himself. he was 100% straight with the committee. people are choosing to play partisan politics and they should be ashamed of themselves. >> sessions of course didnd enp recusing himself. and the white house confirmed jared kushner had meetings back in december. proximity is everything in this town. who did we just see walk on to fair force one, jared kushner and daughter ivanka trump, they're heading down to florida.

>> governor/vice president pence used personal e-mail was hacked. what are they saying about that? >> reporter: they're saying there's a distinction that hillary's use was a private server, not private e-mail. they're pretty clear on that. but again, another round of negative about mike pence for something they very critical of hillary clinton during the campaign. >> let's go back to the main story, which is the recusal. just a short time ago house minority leader nancy pelosi flat out said she will not accept a simple recusal. >> it is a very narrow recusal, a very narrow i'm going to recuse myself on the investigation of the election.

no, there's a whole russian connection of personal, political and financial russian connection. this is just totally unacceptable. >> i want to bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber. yesterday you were the first person to point out that i heard that this was very narrow, that it was only going to cover precampaign and then we got confirmation of that. but what the democrats are asking for, which is for him to step down, would require, one would think, some proof of wrong doing, some proof of perjury, very difficult things in situations like this, right, from a legal standpoint. >> very difficult. and you can make a misstatement that doesn't amount to perjury. there is a debate now over how to deal with this. sessions saying he wants to write a letter to update his testimony. others saying, senator blumenthal, that he wants sessions to come back and

testify and clear this all up. the deeper question of whether this new plan to have, a, a partial recusal, so up to election day and, b, a deputy attorney general take over, is that independent enough. >> those are the questions. what are the options? >> one option is to move forward this way. the second option is what sessions referred to where he said if there is something more after the campaign, that's what pelosi was just references, then he will also make a separate determination whether to recuse. that seems odd and unnecessarily complicated because now he's split the baby, we'll revisit. toe door number one is deputy a.g., door number two is potential recusal of other issues. door number three is an independent special counsel. that is what the bush

administration ultimately did when they had leaks that were believed to be or possibly tied to the white house. so to fully investigate that, rather than having the department of justice involved, they had a fully independent, separate process for that. we're not there yet. that's different from the calls for a resignation but that's a question of independence that may continue to swirl around, particularly as you only have half a recusal. >> but even when you have the independence per se, it's something the president can override. if there's a recommendation or finding, ultimately it goes to the president's desk. >> that's a big question. in the situations in history, let me be clear to everyone watching at home, i'm not now talking about this case. but in the situations in history, for example, in watergate, one of the problems was the president's attempt to override decisions made in the justice department and fbi. and one of the articles of impeachment, talking about that case, was that interference.

that does not mean that those are areas that are generally different and where there is communication or briefing to the white house, this has been a foreign policy question mark from the beginning but ultimately if this worked the right way and the independent way, the independent judgment of the prosecutors, whoever ultimately handle the case, should carry the day, no white house interference. >> ari, thank you so much. there is the legal part of this, the political part of it and a key question in all of this is what did the white house know and when did they know it? there is a long history of denials that anyone in the inner circle met with russians. >> are there any ties between mr. trump, you and your campaign and putin and his regime? >> no, there are not. it's absurd and there's no basis to. >> i hear people saying it like it's a fact on television. that is not only inaccurate and false but it's dangerous. >> can you say with 100%

confidence that mr. trump or anybody in his campaign had no conversations with anybody in russia during the campaign? >> no, i mean, i'm just telling you it's all phony baloney garbage. >> did any adviser or anybody in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians who were trying to meddle in the election? >> of course not. >> i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person that iea with does. >> but now we know that president trump's son-in-law and now senior adviser jared kushner, who just got on the plane with him, was with michael flynn when he had that meeting with the same russian ambassador that jeff sessions met with. good to see you for the second day, matthew. what can you tell us about this meeting that involved jared kushner, michael flynn and ambassador kislyak? >> it took place in early

september in trump towers. it was kept off the books. we just found out about it yesterday. they were there to establish a line of communication. to what end remains unclear. it was about a month before the obama administration went to impose sanctions and the ambassador ended up on the phone that he eventually resigned over. it's another example of deepening contacts with russia. what's the nature of the contacts? we don't know. are they inherently wrong? no but that's the issue. we don't know what it's about, at first we didn't talk and then we did talk and it's denied. >> "usa today" today reporting that two other trump campaign officials, carter page and j.d. gordon had another previously

undisclosed meeting with kislyak during the convention. what may be problematic and we've seen this before is this drip, drip, drip, it keeps it on the front page of newspapers, keeps us talking, even though the white house keeps saying there isn't any there there. especially if you're a democrat, how do you get to any there there? >> they have an uphill bottattl. before the obama administration left office, they did their best to process and finish reports. republicans have agreed to cooperate. i think we're going to see in the coming months where that goes. but how you actually figure out the there there is going to be an incredibly complex task. i suspect we'll be talking about it for a while to come. >> matthew rosenberg, another great day of reporting. thank you for coming on the program. everyone wants to know who is

this guy at the center of the storm? jeff sessions called him an old style soviet type ambassador. he was in the room for the president's address to congress on tuesday, by the way, as were dozens of other diplomats and ambassadors. cal perry joins me with an inside look at the ambassador. >> career diplomat, 66 years old, educated as a nuclear physicist. these are top posts considered in moscow. he joined in 1977 and this is a long stint here as the u.s. ambassador, nine years. that's longer than people normally last for. this is the jeff sessions timeline. what we're looking at particularly is this meeting in september that we've talked so much about. if you want to meet with someone who can discuss the potential hacking that's gone on or election fraud, the russian ambassador is the guy to talk to and he does these meetings in the open. he has a yearly party, for

example, at the russian embassy. he spoke to our local affiliate about that party. he described his job this way. >> you know, one of the thing that is missing in russn-american relations is the interaction between the societies. you know we have always kept doors for better relations open. for the previous administration, for new administration. we are ready and interested to build a really productive and useful relations for both countries. >> we talk about a lot of nefarious behavior, certainly -- when you talk about the job that the russian ambassador has done, he's gotten to the key players. he's done his job of getting to the key players inside the trump administration to then relay to information to moscow about potentially how things are going to change under a trump administration. the last thing that i'll sort of

point to here and this is something you're very familiar with, chris, i know, is he was instrumental in the arms reduction agreement with president obama during obama's administration here, chris. >> i thought one of the more interesting things i've read as we've been looking at all of this, maybe a sign of russia, some of its financial problems, is that he loved to throw parties but at a recent party, they served a generic vodka. >> this was in a politico article this morning. fascinating. i would love to get my hands on the diplomatic cable of state department officials who wrote back to the statement saying there could be economic trouble in russia, they're now buying their vodka from costco. >> when i was in the olympics in sochi and i won't to a regular store, there were aisles and aisles of vodka for next to nothing. >> the russian ambassador to wine and dine, i'm available at any time for that party. >> and i felt it was my job to investigate it. >> good luck without the entire

press corps now showing up on wisconsin avenue. >> without a doubt. cal thank youor that. i want to dig a little deeper. let me start with you, matt. i know you have concerns about this. as you look at everything we've learned over the last 24 hours, what's your big headline here? >> i think two things going forward. there are two separate strands here. first with respect to senator sessio sessions' testimony to the judiciary committee. he does need to clear it up. if i were on the judiciary committee, what i'd want to know is what happened after his initial testimony on january 10th, between that time and the time he came and gave a follow-up written answer. i'd want to talk to staff members involved with formulating that written answer and say obviously you knew he left out in his answer his meeting with the russian ambassador. why did you decide not to clarify that in your written response? that seemed like the opportunity

to clear that up. the second thing is what happens now at the department of justice with respect to the ongoing investigation. >> let me put a hold on that because i want to get to that, but hagar, you've actually prepped secretaries to go through these hearings before congress. when you hear what jeff sessions said yesterday and then he talked about now writingo the judiciary, these are high pressure spaces for anybody, even somebody who has been around the block as long as jeff sessions has. could he simply have thought the question was did you talk about the campaign with anybody from russia? >> listen, it's possible that during the actual testimony that he got nervous or he didn't hear the question well, maybe. but he had a chance to rectify that answer in written testimony. and the fact of the matter is i've prepared several secretaries for preparation not just for testimony but congressional testimony in a confirmation hearing. and the prep for that is weeks.

it is incredibly immense. we do things call murder boards where a group of officials will sit around a table for hours grilling on questions, flagging sensitive topics. >> let's talk about russia. what would have been on that murder board about russia? >> russia would have been the number one issues, would have consumed days and tons of q & a and we would have discussed this is clearly a sensitive topic, this is definitely a question you are going to receive and this is how you should answer. he took a pledge to say the whole truth and nothing but the truth. omitting something counts as not saying the truth. it's hard to say. this is a man who has gone through security clearance. anybody in the government who has gone through security clearance, who has been on the hill understands that it is much better to coverour bases and say even ift may not seem relevant to say just so you

know, i did meet with the ambassador and this is what we discussed but it wasn't really haven't to the campaign. box checked, move on. >> and i want to bring in a man who spent years spying on russia as a double agent. i want to get your reaction to something former russian ambassador mike mcfaul had to say about jeff sessions' comment that this was a run of the mill meeting and he didn't remember a lot of it. >> sergey kislyak, who i know very well, i've dealt with him very well, he would have tried to get information to try to inform his government about a possible future trump administration. that's exactly what he was doing. he worked for the russian government. he worked for vladimir putin. he was doing his job in gathering information, including meeting with the opposition. >> but would he necessarily have been very overt about it? could this have seemed just like a kind of a friend live get to know you meeting?

>> that's exactly right, chris. my concern here is the russian attack was two-prong. the first prong, as we've all seen, hacking the dnc e-mails. the second prong was a much more insidus ones, which i believe the russians targeted the trump campaign for contact. they actually tried to make contact. i'm not saying necessarily that the trump folks reached out to the russians first, i believe the russians reached out, tried to make contact, tried to develop a relationship and walked that very fine line. making contact with someone is not in itself illegal and the russians understand our laws incredibly well. they walked that line with the goal of building a relationship eventually to be able to manipulate that person, as i believe we have seen with general flynn. >> without suggesting that somebody is naive or something, we can at least say somebody like a jared kushner is

inexperienced in these kind of things. >> absolutely. >> jeff sessions not so much by his admission and just about every senator we've heard from, they take these kinds of meetings all the time so what could be nefarious about it? >> with all due respect to the senator, just because you're a senator, that has nothing to about the operational trade craft that comes with the operations. the russians are very good. they could have had a meeting with anyone with the goal of what their intention is. it could be very clear. it could be a completely overt, complete legitimate reason to meet with you but their intent is to actually build a relationship to move you down this path. it is a very, very slow dance. in my case it took the russians almost two years till they got to the point where they said, hey, we actually want you to spy for us. and they didn't actually say it in those words. i believe what we're seeing here

is a carefully thought out, directed operation by the russians. >> but they weren't trying to recruit jeff sessions to be a double agent. >> no, no. they doesn't come n't come in h clear end game. i think this is as simple as we want to get in on the trump campaign, we want inroads in. let's find out who the come players are. i think the hillary folks may have been a little more schooled in this. look, this is what they do day in and day out. this is what the russians do. this is why they're so dangerous. >> the question becomes how do we get to the point where the american people get to know exactly what did go on in these meetings and the pressure a special special commission, an independent counsel is intensifying. what can that kind of situation bring that the intelligence committee investigations can't bring? because if you listen to the republicans, they're six months ahead of where everybody else is. they're going to do the job.

>> the problem is the intelligence committee, you know, conducts its hearings in secret. they find facts in secret. by the way, that's what the fbi does, too. that's what the department of justice does and what a special counsel would do. you have to have a special counsel completely independent from not just jeff sessions but also from the deputy attorney general. it has to be walled off from the entire chain of command that can look at this and find if there are criminal charges that should be brought. that's just one piece of it. the criminal bar is the highest possible standard. the american public also needs to be reassured ifhe russians were running an intelligence operation to try and elect donald trump, which we know they were, the intelligence community has concluded that, was there collusion by members of the trump campaign or associates. even if the fbi can't prove that to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, there still may be evidence that the public deserves to know and that can only come out through a select committee of congress that holds public hearings or the best alternative would be a

bipartisan 9/11 style commission that could subpoena evidence and issue a report with recommendations. >> now as we have this growing number of people we find out have met with the russian ambassador, the white house confirming that carter page talking to our chris hayes. let me play what he had to say. >> did i meet sergey kislyak in cleveland? did you talk to him? >> i'm not going to deny that i talked to him. i will say i never met him anywhere outside the cleveland. let's say that much. >> the only time up met him was in cleveland? >> that i may have met him possibly might have been in cleveland so -- again, i'm respectful to the organizers, i'm respectful to confidentiality rules, whether it's in government or outside -- >> you're not going to deny you talked to him in cleveland? >> i'm not going to denythat.

>> hagar, what do you maybe of that? >> that's a lot of caveats to his explanation. if you meet with russia, it's reported. when i was at the white house, i met with russian counterparts to talk about syria. we both knew when we were at complete opposite sides yet when i came back to my desk, i sent a memo all the way up to chain to say this is who i met with, this is what was said and this was the conclusion and this was the next step. >> do you think people in the trump administration don't know that? >> i think they're in the campaign mode. they're not really deeply understanding this is an adversary. this is what they do. they don't have friends, they just have interests. and most of their interests are about destabilizing the united

states, interfering in our election and always, always getting information. that is the root of everything for the russians. naveed really hit it on point. >> do you think it's coincidental that those of us in the press watch day in and day out people going in and out of trump tower, some of them coming to the cameras and making statements, the fact that we never saw the ambassador, that he chose not to take the public route but to go in essentially the back door? just coincidental? >> i think it is coincidental and a foot stomp and what she just said temperatu. i was involved in a sensitive operation. when i got my top clearance from the navy, the question was asked, did i have any foreign contact? i said yes. it was cleared. if you have nothing to hide, report it. it's as simple as that. >> what's next for jeff

sessions? brenda lawrence spoke before demonstrators saying he must resign. what democrats want versus what actually is possible. the congresswoman will join me next. i was energetic. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. he also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem

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no doubt about, it the drum beat from democrats is getting louder each day about the tru trump-russia connection. >> each passing day in this

administration we learn about more russian ties followed by more russian lies. it's clear that this administration cannot be independent when it comes to looking at what russia did in our past presidential election. if you take a step back, after russia attacked our democracy, why in the world did they think it was appropriate to meet so many times with russia's ambassador? i think that calls into question also their judgment. >> let me bring in congresswoman brenda lawrence, who represents parts of michigan. what troubles you most about this? >> what troubles me most? this we can use a lot of cliches, where there's smoke there's fire, this is the tip of the iceberg. an administration who has amnesia or blatantly lie to hide their connections or relationships with russia and we have an administration that has

economic ties and benefit from having relationships with russia that's not being disclosed. we have not seen the president's taxes. we have a son-in-law who have stated publicly that russia has a very large investment in the trump portfolio. we have flynn, who has resigned. now we have sessions who is recusing himself. this is about america. this is not about democrat or republican. the republicans have been on record that when there is a threat to our security perceived, that they dig down and they investigate. this is what we're saying and we are going to continue to move forward to say that we must ensure our country, our democracy is protected. >> but i'm sure you've heard what the president said. he said this is a witch hunt. he stands behind jeff sessions.

sessions said clearly yesterday he didn't do anything wrong. legally perjury is very hard to prove. a lot of the things you're talking about hard to prove so where do you go from here? >> what's not hard to prove is why did flynn resign? why is -- if this is not a witch hunt. his own staff appointment, mr. sessions, has recused himself. this is his son have said that russia is a very large player in their economic success. those are not witch hunts. those are facts. >> there are intelligence committee investigations. do you not trust the intelligence committees to do their job? >> there should be a bipartisan hearing that should be going on right now based on all of the facts that we need to find out what is going on here, what is the connection, how influential is russia in our government

right now? and that should not be pushed back. this is not about a witch hunt. the president of the united states has a responsibility as well to ensure the people of this great country that we are not under siege by an outside threat, an enemy of ours. and this is something else. when we talk about sessions recusing himself, there should be an independent -- independent person, body, looking at this issue because none of his appointees -- >> yesterday your leader, nancy pelosi, when asked about how to move this toward, she said it's going to take the will of the people. we've seen them rise up about obamacare and with women's issues and some republicans switch votes on betsy devos because of consistent response. i haven't heard any members of congress say their phones are ringing off the hook about this but are yours?

>> absolutely. i'm in my district now and this morning i've had people say this cannot continue. we have seen issue after issue after issue and it's not just russia alone, it the continuous, the continuous failure of representing this country, protecting it. some of our residents feel under siege with the immigration ban. all of these issues that continue to come out and this russia thing is a very disconcerning thing for the people. they don't understand it. why are we so consistently showing that we have ties just from this trump administration with russia when russia is supposed to be an enemy of rs? so they're concerned about it because they don't know the impact it will have on us. and it's our job in congress to make sure that it doesn't. >> congresswoman, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and right now, take a look at what we've been watching.

vice president meek penceike pe arriving in wisconsin with native son paul ryan. they'll meet be local farmers and business owners. meantime, president trump is on air force i on his way to orlando where he'll make a visit to a school and is set to talk about the hotly debated issue of school choice. we'll be live in orlando next. for lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads... here... here... or here. today, there's another option. drug-free aleve direct therapy. a tens device with high intensity power that uses technology once only available in doctors' offices. its wireless remote lets you control the intensity, and helps you get back to things like this... this... or this. and back to being yourself. aleve direct therapy. find yours in the pain relief aisle.

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right now president trump traveling to orlando, florida. it's his first appearance at a school as president. he's going to visit a catholic school this afternoon. he has been pushing for school choice, a very divisive issue. the president mentioned it in his address to congress. >> education is the civil rights issue of our time.

i am calling upon members of both parties to pass an education bill that funds school choice for disadvantaged youth, including millions of african-american and latino children. [ applause ] >> nbc's rehema ellis, who has been covering education for years for nbc is there for us. betsy devos, we just found out she's going to be there, the new education secretary. a lot of the pushback against her had to do with her well-known position on school choice. what do we know about this visit, what they want the messaging to be? >> reporter: well, the message, chris, is that this is to show they are in support of school choice. the school that they're going to be visiting, it's across the highway from me. we've been pushed over here, along with a handful of protesters from down the street, who won't get anywhere near betsy devos as they did a couple of weeks ago when she tried to

visit a school in washington, d.c. she spent her career in michigan, her home state, advocating for school choice. it's one of the reasons why president trump chose her as his secretary of education. they're saying the conditions in america's public schools are not providing children what they need and, therefore, there should be more choice. that would come in the form of charter schools, vouchers and for tax credits to go to religious schools. now, that raises a lot of questions for some people who are concerned that this might be an opportunity for people to start dismantling traditional public schools, taking away much-needed funds from the public schools and that has created a lot of criticism and a lot of concern among some people. chris? >> and we will be there when the president arrives. rehema, thank you so much for that. up next, a game of hide and seek on capitol hill. we'll tell you about senator rand paul's, some might call it an extreme attempt to get a copy of a draft house obamacare

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we're back with our daily briefing on politics. at the end of another week for president trump and the white house, take a look. >> we have to win. we have to start winning wars again. i have to tell you, it's an unbelievably complex subject. nobody knew that health care could be so complicated. >> i think i get an a in terms

of what i've done. but in terms of messaging, i'd give myself a c or c-plus. >> i'm here tonight to deliver a message of unity and strength and it is a message deeply delivered from my heart. everything that is broken in our country can be fixed. every problem can be solved. >> i have not met with any russians at any time to discuss any political campaign and those remarks are unbelievable to me and are false. >> the fact that the attorney general, the top cop in our country, lied under oath to the american people is grounds for him to resign. >> for the good of the country, attorney general sessions should resign. >> i think that's a nothing burger. >> i do think he's going to need to recuse himself at this point. >> i think it's best in this case if he recuse himself. >> i have recused myself in the matters that deal with the trump campaign.

>> that is the key question going forward, not just the attorney general recusing himself but appointing a special prosecutor. >> and joining me now, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. hey, mark. with all this russia and session stuff, there are stories we might be losing sight of. one of them obviously obamacare. rand paul spent thursday searching the halls of congress for the republican replacement plan. he wasn't even allowed in the room to see what he says is kind of this secret draft of it. let me play that for you. >> i think there's a bill in there but i asked for a copy of the bill and i'm being told i can't have a copy of the bill. it's the secret office for the secret bill. >> and steny hoyer also went on a hide-and-seek mission. what can we expect? >> next week there will be the markup session in two house

committees and republicans are going to be hammering it out. we also have speaker of the house paul ryan in wisconsin with vice president pence and hhs secretary tom price. so i think we're going to get more. but yesterday's activity by rand paul, as well by democrats, kind of exposed one of the flaws with house republicans, that they campaigned on and complained about democrats and a lack of transparency in 2010 with the craftsmanship of the health care law. and critics yesterday were saying, well, where is the transparency with this new legislation? >> is there a secret room? >> apparently there was and there have been some reports, chris, about there are starting to be some details that are coming out. but, again, we're going to get more and hopefully a more transparent process starting next week. >> mark murray, as alway get to see you. have a great weekend. >> you, too. >> and coming up, an unlike lly

friendship, what former president bush said about his friendship with michelle obama. if you have medicare

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500 locations in 39 states and 11 countries. here's the best part. the sandwich shops are designed to automatically give back to the community. i got a chance to talk to jeff senelli yesterday about the secret to his success. there's a lot of sandwich shops out there. what is it about this that has made it successful? >> we build a custom sandwich you create. not only the base and switches but let our customers design if they want extra jalapenos or sauce. you design your own sandwiches. it makes it a little bit different. >> you designed a unique way to give back to the communities these are in. tell us about the pb&j project. for me pb&j is project is making my sandwich to bring it to lunch. >> a peanut butter and jelly is a simple sandwich been. >> but delicious. >> everyone understands it it's a comfort food. we want to make sure our

business is successful but i heard 98% of all businesses don't make it to the tenth year. woo, i made it and said let's make this special. we started making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and took them to the community and the heartfelt warm thanks we got from the simple gesture really put meaning in the company for me and it's more than a peanut butter and jelly. it's a project and right now we're giving out almost millions of sandwiches every year. >> who gets them? >> there's no red tape on the project. you can give them to anyone, just a co-worker, but really people in need. it's defined as giving to someone in need. we don't want to have any red tape. anyone can do it. we can leave here today a bag of bread and peanut butter and pass them out and get credit for the project. >> pretty much everybody likes peanut butter and jelly. you've had a lot of success over the course of several administrations, you told us when you started this more than ten years ago. as a business what are you looking for from the trump administration so you continue

growth and continue the charitable part of it? >> i'm an entrepreneur at heart and i've been through administrations, our company is 13 years old. we've seen three administrations. we'll see many more people a pro business and -- it >> what does that mean pro business? >> it means that when you go throughout, you set up a business format, not only to make money, but to support your communities and look, which wich was the fastest growing company through the recession of 2000. as an entrepreneur you take the obstac obstacles. whoever sits in the big chair there's going to be the rules of the country and everything, but you can succeed and we've been successful in it, so to me, we've gone through three already with my business, i'm looking forward to three more. >> jeff sinelli thanks for coming in. coming up, george w. bush, who does he like better, aboutment. or michelle obama? the answer. it's about moving forward

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we're learning more today about what some people might see as a surprising political friendship, it's blossomed despite deep partisan divisions across the country. talking about former president george w. bush and the recent first lady michelle obama. we've been seeing a lot of affectionate photos over the years of the two of them together at various events. now the former president explaining to ellen degeneres just why they've hit it off so

well. >> you know, i'm kind of a needler, and she handles it pretty well. oh, yeah. that surprised everybody. that's so weird about society today you know? that people on opposite sides of the political spectrum could actually like each other. >> but are you that close, you're closer to her than barack? >> ahh -- [ laughter ] well let's put it this way, he's never given me a hug that way. >> president bush also talked to "people" magazine and said he hopes to work with the obamas in the future on issues involving military families and veterans, something of course that michelle obama did throughout her husband's presidency. thank you so much for watching this hour of "msnbc live." i'm chris jansing. see you back here at 5:00 for "meet the stress daily." right now on msnbc, "andrea mitchell reports." right now witch hunt. that's what president trump and the russians are both calling

the pressure on attorney general jeff sessions, forcing sessions to recuse himself from the investigation into russia's possible links to trump campaign associates. >> i think it was hyped beyond reason and i think it was unfair. i was glad to be able to address it today. >> do over, democrats on the senate judiciary committee want the attorney general back on the hill and under oath to explain. >> a number of my colagues and i are going to be writing to the chairman of the judiciary committee asking that jeff sessions be brought back and answer these questions under oath. >> and family ties. now it turns out jared kushner, the son-in-law, also met with the russian ambassador. who else? former trump campaign foreign policy adviser, carter page. >> i'm not going to deny i talked with him. >> so you did talk to him? >> i will say i never met him anywhere outside of cleveland, let's just say that much. >> the