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at msnbc world headquarters. it is high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west and day 45 of the trump administration. new word from the white house just a short time ago, for the first time adding to the flurry of tweets from the president earlier yesterday. now a call to investigate the obama administration, but why? >> and if it is, this is the greatest overreach and the greatest abuse of power that i think we've ever seen. >> and just a short time ago we heard from the man who may have all of the answers to it, the claims of wiretapping and allegations of russia-trump team collusion. >> if something like that happened would this be something you would be aware of? >> you'll hear real answers from the former director of national intelligence, some of what he says might surprise you, and is there anything to a new report that president trump was fuming because jeff sessions recused himself from any of the 2016 election investigation? i'll talk to the man behind that

report. all of that over the next two hours right here on msnbc live. and we begin with new calls and new reaction to calls by president trump for an investigation into the obama administration on his claims it wiretapped trump tower during the election. an accusation a spokesperson for president obama has denied. white house press secretary sean spicer released a statement today which reads in part, president donald j. trump is requesting that as part of the investigation into russian activity the intelligence committee exercise their authority to determine whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016. clapper, the outgoing director of national intelligence is pushing back against the allegations of wiretapping and here's what he told chuck todd earlier. >> if something like that happened would this be something you would be aware of? >> i would certainly hope so. i can say -- obviously, i can't speak officially anymore, but i will say that for the part of

the national security apparatus that i oversaw as dni, was there no wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time or as a candidate or against his campaign. >> there is no fisa court order. >> not to my knowledge. >> of anything at trump tower? >> no. also new today republican senators tom cotton and marco rubio, members of the senate intelligence committee on whether there's evidence of president trump's accusations. >> we've already begun an inkwir oat intelligence committee as to russia's efforts to undermine our interest around the world. that inquiry will be thorough and we will follow the facts wherever they lead us, and i'm sure that this matter will be a part of that inquiry. i've seen no evidence of the allegations that we've seen in the media, chris. whether that's a potential fisa court application or a denial of that application or re-submission of an application or surveillance for that matter.

it doesn't mean none of these things happened, but i haven't seen it yet. >> wiretapping is thrown around loosely by a lot of people. suffice to say i've never had any basis and i've never heard that allegation made before by anybody. i've never seen anything about that anywhere before, but again, the president put that out there and now the white house will have to answer as to exactly what he was referring to. >> meanwhile, senate minority leader chuck schumer casting doubt on whether the senate intelligence committee can get to the bottom of the investigations into russia's interference in the u.s. election. >> i have some doubts about chairman burr. he first denied that they should even investigate and when he was pushed by mike warner he said, okay, we'll investigate. and then, of course, at the administration's request he went to the president and said something was wrong. that's taking sides in an investigation. the faith i have in the intelligence committee is in mark warner and the democrats. they've been holding burr's feet to the fire and they have said they will look for another

alternative if chairman burr doesn't fully pursue this. >> all of this new reaction coming just a few hours after president trump took an early-morning jab at president obama tweeting this. who was it that secretly said to the russian president, tell vladimir that after the election i'll have more flexibility and that was the hot mike moment during a meeting with then outgoing dmitry medvedev. we'll go to palm beach, florida and casey. what can you tell us about the latest reaction to these accusations? >>. >> these explosive accusations outlined, frances, james clapper telling chuck todd on "meet the press "qwest that he would have known if there were any wiretaps of trump tower or any of trump's associates during the campaign and he asserted that he was denying that those existed, and of course, that raises questions again about where the president

got his information for these explosive allegations whh, of course, he presented witut any evidence. there was reaction thisorning from people across the political spectrum. josh ernest, the former press secretary out speaking to a certain extent from the former president's perspective. sarah huckabee sanders, spokeswoman for president trump, both appeared separately, but i want to play for you a little bit of what both of them had to say and then we'll talk about it. >> we know exactly why president trump tweeted what he tweeted because there is one page in the trump white house crisis management playbook, and that is simply to tweet or say something outrageous to distract from the scandal and the bigger the scandal the more outrageous the tweet. >> i think he's going from information he's seen that has led him to believe that this is a very real potential and if it is, this is the greatest overreach and the greatest abuse of power that i think we've ever seen and a huge attack on

democracy itself. >> reporter: at this point, there is no evidence, of course, that any of this -- these wiretaps did happen and the president, sean spicer in his statement calling on congressional committees to investigate whether there was any inappropriate wiretapping of trump tower. we now have adam schiff, the ranking member of the house intelligence committee out saying, look, this is not something that we necessarily need to take a look at, that the president is essentially not talking about things that are rooted in fact, and the ranking member on the senate intelligence committee, mark warner, he's the vice chairman, excuse me. he was on cbs this morning as well saying that the investigation on the senate side is moving along. he says that he's going this week to view intelligence documents as part of this investigation. so, clearly, this kind of drip, drip, drip continuing. the reality is that any of these

types of fisa warrants, whether they're foreign surveillance, that's what fisa stands for, or regular warrants would likely appear in the course of these investigations although democrats are concerned that the fbi director jim comey is not giving them enough information on this front. so a lot to look for over the course of the coming week, frances. >> certainly watching donald trump and the twitter feed to see if there will be anything else following that and any jabs arno arnold schwarzenegger. kasie. thank you. >> all of this is more evidence for an independent trumtrump #trum trump #trumpinvestigation. makes me wonder what was on that warrant. i want to bring in the house foreign affairs committee. i appreciate you being with me. if we can clarify that tweet and comment.

are you saying you believe there was an issued warrant here? >> i did yesterday, but today clapper has certainly clarified that there was not a warrant, but the general point is that we, i know, have not even gotten to the tip of the iceberg about the connection between russia and trump. if there was a fisa warrant or not, apparently there wasn't. it seems to me trump was becoming paranoid. it took nixon several years before he became paranoid. he was concerned about obama conspiring with the protesters and he was the one that encouraged the protesters. so i guess this weekend he chose to focus on president obama, but according to clapper that there was not a wiretap. there was no fisa warrant. >> and in that same discussion with chuck todd we heard from clapper who said he did not see any collusion between donald trump and any russian officials there. so tell me how does that play

into it in your beliefs? >> well, one of my concern, and i do believe that this will probably come out in time, we know that trump had a very bad track record as a businessman. we know that there were very few, if any, banks toward the end that would lend him money. until we get his tax returns, until we get to the bottom of his finances as well as his family members who continue to be involved and it's very clear that he has not divested, he's not separated, there's still a tremendous conflicts of interest, until we get to the bottom of all of that we really won't know what the relationship was and we won't know whether there was collusion. i think we have a lot more to discover here. >> well, talk to me a little bit about your turnaround in saying that before james clapper came out and said that there was nothing that he saw, nothing he knew about it when it comes to this wiretapping or any truth to that. what was it that made you so

strongly believe that that did happen and that was the case? >> because there is so much about russia that we don't know. frankly, it wouldn't have been shocking to me if there had been a fisa warrant. but the issue is, too, is whether or not it was true or not the fact that trump is raising this really raises a lot of concerns. i think there's a lot more investigation that needs to be done. i am concerned whether or not it can be done inside the house and the senate. i believe it should be outside, there should be a special commission bipartisan that has established to get to the bottom of everything, but i do think one of the first things that needs to happen is he needs to be like every other president and release his taxes, and we need to continue to call for that. we need to get to the bottom of his business dealings. it's not all about russia. there's a lot of concerns that people have, the emoluments clause, the fact that he still

owns the hotel and that was one thing that was supposed to have changed the minute he became president. so i think that there is an awful lot about this president that we don't know. i think investigations need to go forward. i think sometimes when he has these twitter storms he's doing that really to distract people away from what the real issues are, and i think that was a perfect example. he tweets about president obama and a few minutes later tweets about the apprentice. >> we can also say when it comes to these tweets and these accusations of wiretapping that in essence, why would he do that? is there something more behind that as far as strategic diversion? is he really wanting to distract here or you have also the other side saying that he's shooting himself in the foot either way. >> exactly. >> it's damning for him if it's not true or if it is, that maybe a federal judge found something as far as anything criminal or anything that may be damaging to him. >> that was my point exactly. i think that's exactly right.

>> all right. talk to me very quickly, when you have this as far as how this information may have come to the attention of donald trump, in your thoughts, where could that have been from? >> well, my understanding is it's from breitbart news or from some other crazy news source. just think about this for a minute. why would he tweet that without verifying his own information? how would the president of the united states wake up early in the morning and not even bother to check to see whether or not it made sense? so he's the president. he has access to all of the intelligence in the world, but he goes by breitbart news? he goes by some crazy news source? this is the president who is so concerned about fake news? and so i think that -- and a lot of people believe he just doesn't seem to have settled into the presidency yet. i mean, it's as though he needs to understand what powers a

president has or not. president obama wouldn't have the power to say let's go wiretap donald trump. so, you know, it's just a concern, and it just makes one wonder whether it's diabolical or whether he just is not very stable. >> let me ask you this, i know that you say attention needs to be paid for donald trump and his taxes and policy at hand. >> yes. >> want to ask you about the senator that say there are transcripts that exist between the conversations and the meetings between jeff sessions and also the russian ambassador. >> well, again, that's further my point, that there's a lot that we still don't know. i heard senator coons say that the other day and that's the point. we are at the tip of the iceberg and there's a lot that we need to know and all of that says to me that it needs to be outside of congress and an independent investigation. remember the chair of the intelligence committee and the house intelligence committee responded to the white house

request to call the media to say well, there's really not a lot there there in terms of the fbi investigation. the fact that they did that to me really compromises their ability to have an objective investigation. that's why i think it needs to be independent. >> there's so much talk about investigations as we have been discussing with you. when you consider the work at hand, the business at hand that needs to be made on a daily basis here, when it comes to these investigations how quickly can we see these through? no way for the american people and the business at hand for the president needs to have priority. >> i agree, but you have to get to the bottom of this because it raises the basic issue of trust. can we trust the white house? we know that the president will come out and make wild claims. he does this regularly whether he's talking about muslims that were protesting -- or rather, celebrating after 9/11, the 3 million votes is, you know, president obama not being born

in the united states. he has no real obligation or loyalty to the truth. he just makes outrageous statements and it's completely inappropriate behavior for the president of the united states. what does that say to the international community? what's going to happen when he makes his first international trip? are the heads of states even going to look at him seriously? i think these are really important questions and that's why it is so important that we get to the bottom of the truth, you know? what is the relationship with russia. what are his finances. who is he in hock to. all of those are critical questions for our country and frankly, to the world. >> i appreciate you being with me. >> thank you very much. predicting which political domino can fall first after the president's weekend tweets. the trump claims of abuse by the obama white house. future, a standard, a star.

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♪ he's made very clear what he believes and he's asking that we get down to the bottom of this. let's get the truth here. let's find out. i think the bigger story isn't who reported it, but is it true? >> white house deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders on the president's call for an investigation into whether the obama administration wiretapped trump tower. for analysis i want to bring in malay hooper congressional reporter at the hill and john harwood chief correspondent and political writer for "the new york times." thank you for your time and being with me. john, i want to start with you. do you think there will be an investigation here and how will it go? >> well, there is an investigation going on in the house and senate intelligence committee. i think this will be folded into that. devon nunes, the chairman of the house committee put out a

statement a moment ago he'll see if evidence warrants into this, but all ofhe behavior that we've seen from the tmp white house and various trump ministration officials suggest that deep investigations are not their friend. and so on the one hand, it looks sort of strange that you have the white house press secretary calling on deeper investigations saying we're not going to comment until that happens, but of course, when you have a president who acts so strangely, the backfill from his aides will be strange and that's the situation we're in right now. >> back fill from his aides as well from the white house and the administration and also other republicans. you cover the hill, so what is the reaction from republicans in general to the trump claims and how long are they willing to stick with the president? what will it take? >> well, you know, it's interesting seeing that devon nunes statement telling us that the committee will expand on this current investigation. they already have, but you're looking at other senators like ben sasse, i call him sassy.

ben sasse from nebraska who was very critical of president trump, who had serious issues with the fisa court orders and the surveillance wiretapping and getting into those issues and then all of a sudden this issue turns into something bigger than the house and the senate intelligence committees can really handle when you have republicans who are critical and concerned that perhaps this was taking place. they just don't know about it. so when the president sends out tweets like this, you know, alleging that then president obama purposefully ordered wiretaps on his trump tower, well, that does make republicans very uncomfortable and as ben sasse says in a statement was very telling saying we are in the state of warping public trusts and these allegations must be thoroughly investigated. >> just to follow up on what

molly was saying, first of all, it's obviously backward for a president to make an assertion and ask for evidence to back up the assertion. usually the evidence precedes the assertion, but the second thing is what the president said in his tweets is going to be persuasive to the same kind of people who think that president obama was born in kenya, that ted cruz's father was involved in the jfk assassination, that there were 3 million illegal votes in the election which is to say people who aren't playing with a full deck. now that is not the case with the republican members of the intelligence committee who with their democratic colleagues as molly just indicated, they are concerned about this and that is an entirely different audience and it is not suggestive of this whole set of circumstances heading into a good direction for donald. >> let's talk about that conversation with james clapper this morning with chuck todd saying there was no wiretap of

trump tower. does that put it to rest? that he was director of foreign intelligence that that is it? end of story. >> it was very interesting listening to that interview, james clapper said not that i'm aware of. so he made a very careful point of giving that caveat to his assertion to his denial that there were any wiretaps because if you listen to michael mukasey, form attorney general under then george w. bush. he actually said seeing these news reports that it was likely that there had been a wiretap, and he said this would have been done under the attorney general, not president obama and the reason that there would have been a wiretap because there were suspicion that someone in the trump campaign organization was acting as a russian agent. not saying that that's true or not, but the one issue that comes up on capitol hill especially regarding the fisa warrants is that everything is so secretive, and they don't get the real answers to what is going on? wouldn't they know? that was attorney general

loretta lynch. wouldn't the administration know? >> one would think that, but at the same time the question that keeps coming up that's been going on since 9/11 is these various agencies are still locked in their stovepipes and even though we do have this director of national intelligence, you know, sometimes these thing don't get to everybody, and again, just keep in mind, clapper said not that he's aware of. >> shouldn't he know? >> he should know. you'd think he should know. >> frances this gets to the point that lindsaym gra addressed in his town hall yesterday when he was asked about these tweets and he said yes, if president obama unilaterally ordered a wiretap of candidate donald trump that would be a watergate-type scandal, but he said it would also be a watergate-type scandal if the administration had gone to a fisa court, gotten a warrant to surveil because that would indicate that a judge believed that the fisa court that there was probable cause that a crime had been committed.

he, lindsay graham, vowed to get to the bottom of that question. if he can deliver on that promise that is something that i think a lot of democrats are eager to see. >> that's the double wham they we see on both sides. i want to ask you, molly, and i want to ask you about this, too, because with chuck todd they were talking about the trump campaign and russia. let's take a listen to that. >> we did not include any evidence in our report, and i say our, and that's nsa, fbi and cia with my office, the director of innationternational intellig that had any collusion between members of the trump campaign and the russians. there was no evidence of that included in our report. >> i understand that, but does it exist? >> not to my knowledge. >> all right. so we're talking about no wiretapping and no collusion according to james clapper here. is it politics now? on one side you have the democrats crying collusion. this is the discussion we're having. >> isn't it wild? because on the one hand you hear

donald trump saying he was surveilled. on the other hand, when you have someone like a former attorney general mukasey saying, number one, president obama would not have been able to order the wiretap. it would have been the attorney general and the reason they would have ordered it because there was suspicion that someone in the trump organization was perhaps colluding with the russian government or acting as a russian agent. it seems like the ultimate of slippery slopes and how you tweet your way out of it i don't know especially if congress does go down the road of having an independent investigation. >> before i let you go, i want to ask you, john, if you have the discussion we have with clapper that says no wiretapping and no collusion doesn't that just put it all to rest? >> no, i don't think so. i think there is so much that we don't know, so much that the intelligence committee members do not know by their own profession that i think there's just a long way to go before all the facts come out. subpoenas have to get issued and that's how we're going to find

out. we don't know now. >> very quickly, how did donald trump come across this? >> oh, i think the evidence suggests that donald trump saw an article in breitbart. step back for a minute. his campaign strategist was the former head of breitbart. >> steve bannon. >> and there's a pretty clear connection. >> john harwood and molly cooper, thank you for being with me. >> you bet. will congress get behind it we'll ask a member of the arms services committee. that's next. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything,

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the edmond pettis bridge will be held this afternoon. we'll take you to selma in just a little bit. the former spy chief to president trump's claim that former president obama ordered the wiretapping of trump tower during the 2016 election and here's more of james clapper on "meet the press". >> if something like that happened, would this be something you would be aware of? >> i would certainly hope so. i can say -- obviously, i can't speak officially anymore, but i will say that for the part of the national security apparatus that i oversaw as dni, was there no thought to wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time, as the candidate or against his campaign. >> there is no fisa order? >> not to my knowledge. >> of anything at trump touer? >> no. >> i want to bring in national security intelligence and national security reporter ken delane p delaney. we heard from james clapper right there, does it lay

anything to rest as far as wiretapping right there? we spoke to john harwood and he said that, no, he doesn't think so. >> well, i would say this. it lays to rest the accusation of wiretapping and it doesn't lay to rest the entire matter, but let me interpret clapper because he's a pretty understated guy and i've been covering him for years and he's saying not to my knowledge, but he was the director of national intelligence when this alleged fisa order would have been put in place and he says it doesn't exist and that's good enough for me. he would have been briefed on it. we can say there was no fisa order and no wiretap of trump tower and that leads us to the conclusion that the president of the united states put the weight of his office based on a scurrilous allegation based on something he read on breitbart and that's where this will go now. questions about, mr. president, where did you get this

information? when i read the tweets, i am an intelligence reporter and he must have been briefed and this is an amazing development on this story and it turns out he wasn't. >> and the investigation not being folded into the investigation into russia. what's the shelf life for that? >> well, so, there is an ongoing investigation and the main focus of that investigation is whether there was collusion between trump associates and russia and the covert action. >> we have to point back to that same conversation that james clapper had with chuck todd and said he saw no collusion, so why is that not laying that to rest? >> good point. he did say that, but the way he interpreted that -- he left his office in december or january, rather, just as this was heating up and the level of intelligence that was happening at that time. he was seeing no evidence of that. there is no hidden smoking gun here, but there is an ongoing investigation and this is a very complicated and layered matter, if russian intelligence

operatives were communicating with americans they would have been careful about what they said and how they did things and it may take months or even years for the fbi to unravel exactly what happened here, frances. >> ken delaney, national intelligence security reporter. appreciate your time. >> good to be with you. thanks. one member of congress wants to hear from attorney general after calling for the a.g.'s resignation and that's still ahead. tech: this mom didn't have time to worry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there, so she didn't miss a single shot. i replaced her windshield giving her more time for what matters most. tech: how'd ya do? player: we won! tech: nice! that's another safelite advantage. mom: thank you so much! (team sing) safelite repair, safelite replace.

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new today, the pentagon is reportedly eyeing a big increase in u.s. military involvement in syria and that's from this morning's "washington post" and it's special operations forces and also attack helicopters and artillery and arms supplies to syrian forces for an upcoming battle over raqqah, an isis strong hoeldz. the post also writes while the americans would not be directly involved in ground combat the proposal would allow them to work closer to the front line and would delegate decision-making authority down the military line to washington.

i want to bring in the congressman john garamendi. is this an issue you support? >> we know we've got to get rid of isis and is this a necessary way to get it done? we need to be careful here because we've got very significant, opposing forces. you've got the -- you have the kurds who are apparently opposed by turkey. you've got turkey and russia and you have the syrian government of assad. so we need to be very carefully, but clearly, we need to get isis and this is a way of doing it. i want to see more detail about this and overall, over all of this is the fact that there is no clear authorization to use military force or a declaration of war in the syrian situation. so congress has to watch very closely. we've got to be very much aware and frankly, we need to be briefed right away by the

pentagon and the white house. >> we have this plan that requires easing restrictions on u.s. military that were placed by the obama administration. could that have a ripple effect here? >> of course. we know we have the president. president trump's both a tweet and a statement that he's going to wipe isis off the face of the earth. all well and good. how that's going to be done, how our military will be involved in that is important, but also keep in mind that the soft power, that is the soft power of the united states is going to be decimated by the current budget that the trump administration has put out. so all of the work of rebuilding, the work of everything from the state department to other support that the united states gives to countries around the world will simply be decimated if that budget goes forward. so there's multiple facets to this entire situation, and we need to provide all of the

assets of the united states government from soft power, the state department to the military and use all of these assets wisely for the goal of disposing of isis wherever it may be. >> let's delve into the money. you have president trump who is calling for a $54 billion increase in defense spending, but at the same time, where is that going to come from? the white house has a proposal for larger cuts to other departments including the state department. >> considering what you've learned through serving in the house arms services committee, do you think that should be the priority now given that? >> we must always be very wise how we use the american taxpayers' money, just to throw $54 billion additional to the military makes no sense unless it's being used for a specific purpose to enhance the security of the united states. we don't know where that money would be spent. there's a lot of talk about more ships, more planes and more of this, more of that, but for what purpose? and we also know that on the

cybersecurity side there is an enormous risk. is the money going to be used for that? we need to hear from the pentagon as well as from the administration exactly what they intend to do, and keep in mind, do not take that money from the soft power side of it, that is, the state department and the supporwe give to governments all around the world. some of it military, a lot of it humanitarian support. those are extremely important issues even for things such as the peace corps which has had a long, long history of being in countries providing support and in many cases providing elementary and high school education that eventually become leaders of countries around the world. >> i want to ask you about the news we woke up to and we're still talking about this morning on president trump's claim that the obama administration wiretapped trump tower and this morning we have a spokesperson calling for an investigation into the abuse of power. your take? >> what in the world is the

president of the united states doing at 3:00 in the morning tweeting? this is a major concern. what is on this man's mind at that hour of the morning? >> tweeting is one thing and the series of tweets with the accusations calling for congress to look into it, to fold it into their investigation, as well. >> listen, congress is a political body. we've got to get away from the politics of this. we have to have an independent, outside investigation, bipartisan, made up of people that are beyond the politics of the moment to look into all of this. we do have facts on the ground. we do know that russia hacked. we do know that russia used that information to influence the american presidential campaign -- >> how do you take james clapper's conversation earlier saying that there was no collusion between the trump campaign and russia? >> good. that's another element of information that an independent investigative body must take into account. we have to take the politics out of this because there is a major national security issue basic to

our democracy where russia engaged in an effort to disrupt the american election. we know that is a fact. now what are all these other things? was there -- take clapper for his word that there was no fisa order, and that there was no wiretap. that's another piece of information that an independent, investigatory body must take into account. we have to get the facts and get it outside of congress and they're political, by their nature they're political and we've seen a lot of politics and a lot of statements back and forth among both democrats and republicans. so let's get this into the hands of an independent investigation that has subpoena power, that can look at all of the classiednformation, all of the public informati and come to a conclusion. it is critical to the very nature of our democracy that we do this and do it immediately.

>> congressman james garamendi, i appreciate you being with me. >> thanks, frances. 52 years after the infamous bloody sunday in selma, alabama, why this year's protest holds particular significance. we'll have a live report still ahead. >> looking back at last year's presidential campaign, one moment when donald trump almost backed out of the race. when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies.

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about how you want things to be. go long™. you guys are always asking us to take the media seriously. well, we are today. we're taking the reports that places like "the new york times," fox news, bbc, all we're saying is let's take a closer look. if this happened and this is accurate this is the biggest

overreach. >> that's press secretary sarah huckabee sanders saying why president trump is asking for an investigation into what he says is a wiretap ordered by president obama. howard dean and former dnc chair and. >> president trump will make this claim, such a serious one, why not give us something, something or any form of proof. is that also what republicans are thinking? >> absolutely. this is puzzling, and to have the president's press secretary, deputy press secretary come out and then say well, now we want an investigation to see if what the president said is true is obscure -- it makes absolutely no sse and frankly, what it really does is it hurts the agenda of the republicans in the house and senate where they want

to get serious work done and now we have the logjam that will take all of the oxygen for the next several days. >> i don't know who wassic whicheling there. i don't know if that was you, howard. >> that was me! >> that was you. so you have called for this investigation. what -- what is the goal here? what is the white house aiming for and really, where can this investigation go? >> what investigation? first of all, it doesn't work like that. the president of the united states cannot order somebody to be wiretapped. that can only be done when the justice department or the fbi wants it done and then they have to go to court to show probable cause so trump has screwed himself here in some fit of 3:00 a.m. who knows what. one, he's a liar or two, there's enough evidence to convince a fisa job that there's enough bad going on. trump cannot win this one. he's either got a crook in trump tower or he just lied to the american people.

>> this is a double-edged sword. >> you cannot make this stuff up! >> to think that through to say you have this accusation, either, number one, look, it's not true or it is true that means they found something that you're acting in, you know, as a foreign power here, that maybe a threat? susan, and you bring up a good point, as far as business at hand. we could have been talking about tuesday's speech or sessions and other things and this is what we're talking about and yet taking away from what so many of us and the american people want to see as just business at hand for the president. >> and that's problematic. let's not forget, the president of the united states has access to more information than every news outlet put together times 1,000. he is now taking information that he sees on one news outlet or another. this is the second time in about three weeks that he's done this. the first time he did it was the report on sweden and the potential terrorist attack. he needs to stop watching cable

television and pay attention to the facts in front of him and do his job. and that's why the american public voted for him. that's why he's president. this is going to start becoming very problematic for him because he's not going to get to the things that will make a difference in people's lives. he's not going to get tax reform done. he's not talking infrastructure projects. he's talking about potential investigations into his own administration. that makes no sense. >> we also have some of his own people, howard, last night, i'm sure you heard former trump manager corey li-- >> this previous administration has said that they were aware of the information on two different occasions where then-senator jeff sessions met with the ambassador one time during the republican national convention, but more importantly the second time that he met with was with the united states senate office in a federal building, and they were monitoring what a united

states senator was having a private conversation, from what i understand and if that is the case that's very concerning. >> howard, all right. so you have lindowski is not a credible source, and if it's true, the fbi cannot monitor people like that unless there's a warrant, and you can't get a warrant from a court or a judge unless there's probable cause. so that means either the fbi or the justice department or the cia -- cia is a little different because they -- they mostly do foreign terrorists, but that means they would have had to have probable cause, if what lieu indou ski said was true, and i don't believe there was a wiretap, but if there was it means that they had probable cause to believe something criminal or would cause a danger to the united states of america was going on. >> there were people on the justice department who requested

that warrant and wanted to get that order, is there a way that the president would not have known about it? he had to have known. >> absolutely not. the justice department should not be in cahoots with the president and this is one of the reasonsession his to recuse himself on the russia stuff and why he may have to resign as a result of perjuring himself twice during his confirmation hearings. that is not how things work. you don't check with the president to do an investigation to see if it's okay with the president and that is part of the checks and balances system and it's why the attorney general has to be above reproach. it's yet meeting with loretta lynch who i think was a great attorney general and why that looked bad when bill clinton and loretta lynch met at the airport which loretta lynch has said she regrets. this makes loretta lynch meeting look like nothing. >> which is exactly why when jeff sessions goes to correct his testimony tomorrow, the administration should just lay out all of the information that they have out there on their own

interactions with folks from the russian government, and really try and stop the drip, drip, drip because the story will just keep going. >> true. >> certainly a lot to hear and watch when he does make that testimony tomorrow. susan del percio and howard dean, thank you to both of you. >> thank you. candidate trump considered dropping out of the presidential race. hear the story of who managed to change his mind. break through your allergies. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. ♪

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