and louis, both you guys ready, "morning joe" starts right now. we have to admit, we are divided on replacement. we are united on repeal, but we are divided on placement. we united on pale but divided on replacement. >> one score the american people will pay attention to and does it lower their health care costs and premiums? that is the only score that really matters. if this doesn't do it, we need to make sure that we find something that does do it. >> if we liken this to donald trump's world of everything in negotiation what we have is an opening bid and it's about asking this simple question which is do we need to lower the bar in what we believe is conservatives simply because the republicans are now in the white house? >> i think amidst we can find a pony around here somewhere and that is what we are going to be looking to have. i think we will have a race horse loonas long as we have go

amendments when we are done. >> i think really we are going to have something that is going to be much more understood and much more popular than people can even imagine. this will be a plan where you with choose your plan and you know what the plan is, this is the plan. and we are going to have a tremendous -- i think we are going to have a tremendous success. it's a implicated process, but actually it's very simple. it's called good health care. >> all right. >> who knew health care could be so hard? eight years, right? eight years. >> yeah. >> like, 54 votes to repeal it. and they sit there, the truck has come to a stop and their jaws are on it, and they have absolutely no idea how to drive the truck they have been chasing for eight years. they had one job. really one job over eight years. you want to repeal it, what are you going to replace it when?

and you have the president of the morning saying, no, our bill is great. by the afternoon when all of the conservatives abandoned the bill, suddenly he is going, as he would do it, my good friend rand paul has a bill. i'm sure that is good. he threw the republican bill in the ditch with his tweet last night. >> well, apparently it's not that simple. health care this morning is taking center stage amid continued allout over the president's tweeting problems. so can he run the country and can he legislate with his credibility shot, completely shot? press secretary sean spicer tries to brush off the unsubstantiated claim that president obama had president trump wiretapped. we will speak about that with tom cotton coming up. the conservative member of the president's own party who

are not buying what he is selling. we will speak with the house freedom caucus jim jordan of ohio. also white house budget director mick mulvaney and a key to the final key maybe, senator rand paul will be our guest. it is wednesday, march 8th, welcome to "morning joe." i just spilled my coffee! i'm so emotional. >> about reconciliation. >> i'm sad man. >> can we explain that? >> no. >> no. yesterday, they had a show on fox called outnumbered. >> all of these people with long legs and short skirts tell about how people feel about the news. >> i didn't notice that. then they get one guy in the middle and it's called outnumbered, right? >> not showing his legs! >> eric was wonderful. >> he was outnumbered. >> in a big way. they spent a second talking about mika's emotions.

>> sad man. >> mika was upset a couple of days ago. as she was signing off, i think the weak said she was crying. she wasn't crying. i know the emotions of mika and so do viewers. she wasn't crying. she wa pissed off. they yesterday she wasn't pissed, she was sad/mad. >> sad/mad? >> #sad -- mad. >> no. seller. people said she was crying and tearing up because she was upset! nothing sexist there. >> fun conversation. >> hey, little lady, come on, now, don't worry yourself. quit crying. >> calm down. >> they say i'm a highly emotional person. >> that person would be correct. >> i'm not going there! i'm just going to say i'm not going there. >> do you remember when donald

said you were neurotic on twitter? you go, okay, we got that. >> no. i am very proud of the fact that i, you know, say what i feel. that's apparently what we do here! when joe amps up and speaks to camera and is really, really forceful, he is strong! i'm emotional. >> tearful. >> i don't get it. oh, yes, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle is here. next time you have doubt in front of the camera, joe, i hope they do a segment on you. >> and we have mark barnicle and mark halpern. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. he is so emotional. are you going to be okay? >> i'm okay. >> joe will give you a hug. columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius joins us from washington. >> we will try to stop david from tearing up.

>> utterly unemotional. >> thank god for all of you guys to keep me safe. four days after president trump claiming that president obama wiretapped his phones. at a white house prebriefing yesterday, sean spicer said the congress will investigate what the president asserted as a fact on saturday morning. >> it's the white house's position that the president can mayor declarative statements about a former president basically committing a crime and the congressional committee should look into that and prove it? >> it's not a question of prove it. they have the resources and clearances and the staff to fully and thoroughly and comprehensively investigate this and issue a report as to what their comments are.

>> president trump's tweet should not be taken to face value? >> no. he is just saying they have the appropriate venue. >> why would the president want congress to investigate for information he already has? >> i think there is a separation of powers aspect here. i mentioned to jonathan we think -- >> why waste the resources? >> it's not a question of waste it. it's a question of appropriateness. >> can the president just ask the fbi directorship? >> look. >> has he asked them. >> >> no, the president has is not. >> do you believe that president obama -- >> i get that is a cute question asked. my job is to represent the president and talk about what he is doing and what he wants. >> this is surreal. this is just like a group of third graders have taken over the white house. i'm not talking about sean. sean has to speak with the third grader in the white house. and if he gets mad, he will

spill his apple juice on the carpet and fire him. this is surreal. it is really surreal. you have the justice department that has the answer to this question. this is how it works. hey, hey, mr. attorney general. >> yes? >> could you check and see whether president obama wiretapped trump tower or if -- >> yes. hold on on a second. no, no, he didn't. >> that's it! but, yet, they are calling for a congressional investigation. why are they calling for a congressional investigation? because they know he is lying. sean spicer knows he is lying. the president knows he is lying. everybody in congress knows he is lying. the world knows he is lying. and, in fact, republicans themselves are saying don't waste our time. all you have to do, who ran the benghazi investigation? trey gowdy. trey would say all you got to do

is pick up the phone and call your own attorney general and he will tell you it never happened. >> do you think he wishes it would go away? he accused the former president of a felony which i expressed extreme concern about this on the day that you were off. >> you were very sad or on mad. i can't tell. >> no. i actually think the credibility of our president and our country is on the line and he is throwing everything away. >> right. >> but some might be upset about this. others might just be sad. >> let's look at the list. >> please, tell me. >> obama, he accuses obama of a crime, mark halpern. it ends up it's a lie and the justice knows it's a lie. >> so the president lied? >> we have already covered that ground. >> right. okay. >> he lied on that but he still won't admit he lied on that and he now wants to waste taxpayer dollars on an investigation into that. >> to find out that he lied. >> to find out what he could find out by making a phone call but because he has lied and tweeted himself into a corner he would much waste hard working

taxpayer dollars than just to say, yeah, i was wrong because we are not going to let it go away. you don't lie and commit -- accuse an ex-president of committing a crime and that is letting it. the same thing happened with crowd sizes. he lied about the crowd sizes. he lied about the votes, 3 million illegal votes. he said we are going ave congressional investigation. where is it? he lied. he says he wants congress to investigate and he hopes that it will just go away. >> the staff is hoping it goes away. look. crowd size and even the illegal votes is nothing compared to the magnitude of the allegation he made over the weekend. >> i will say 3 million illegal votes is significant. >> very significant. >> and it fits the same pattern he did over the weekend. he lies. he gets caught lying. >> and calls for an investigation. >> and hopes it will go away. >> i'm not minimizing 3 million, that allegation has trivial,

it's not, but this is more serious. >> yeah. >> you think? >> yeah. they are hoping it goes away. people said they were doubling do you know. i don't think they care if congress investigates. they want it to go away. >> they are hoping to bury it with time. just we are going to have congressional investigations and we will let diamondback to you in september. you sort of on to the solution here. your preliminary solution, three phone calls. all you has to make or all of the chairman of the house and senate intelligence committees have to make. you call mike pompeo of the cia and mike rogers head of the nsa and jim comey head of the fbi and bring them in did this happen? they say no, no, no. >> comey already said he is lying and comey is asking the justice department to say -- >> get him on the record. >> but they don't want that because when the president gets them on the record, everyone will say, it never happened.

no, it didn't happen. the thing is if they want this lie to go away, he probably shouldn't lie every day because, yesterday, he lied and said barack obama released, what? 122 -- >> that was incorrect fox tweet. >> it was nine. no, no. here is the thing. >> i'm sorry. did i mess up? fox and friends tweet? >> fox and friends actually got it right. >> oh. >> the president. >> got it wrong. >> twisted fox and friends tweets. >> oh, sorry. >> so -- >> "fox and friends." >> people are blakeming "fox an friend." >> they had him right but the president had them wrong. >> you have to cut him slack because he didn't really have any staff members. >> they are busy fighting trying to get each other's jobs for a ship that is going down! >> this is the incredible thing. it's not going down. he has a 45% approval rating.

>> unsustainable. >> i was reading john -- read john pedoritz this morning. we are still in a bubble. nobody outside -- if you voted for sdrudonald trump you like dd trump still. >> i'm sorry if you voted for donald trump. >> if you didn't vote for donald trump, you still don't like donald trump. on all of these tweets, he could pick up the phone. steven miller, hey, steven, what about -- and, steven, from everything i've heard is a brilliant guy. he would say, no, mr. president, 122, but bush released most of those. obama, nine. all he has to do is pick up the phone and call but he doesn't. he embarrass himsf and sets republican legislation back every day he does this. >> even on with his shrunken staff, plenty around him he could call and get the facts

before he tweets. >> if you call steven miller, steven miller would say the powers of the president won't be questioned so, sir, whatever you say is right. go ahead. lie to america. >> donald trump needs to pick up the phone and call staff members. david ignatius, mika was sad/mad about this yesterday. >> yes. >> very emotional. >> he was with us. >> we were all walking the little lady through it as the weak might say. but one of the things concerned mika off-air, what kind of impact does this have on our allies and our adversaries as we race toward a popular showdown with north korea, what impact does it have that our commander in chief lies every day about the least important things? how does that guy pick up a phone and say, hey, don't worry,

we are going to be standing next to you. >> right. >> japan, we are going to be standing next to you, south korea. we are going to be standing next to you, china if you need us and you can trust our word. what impact does this have on foreign policy? >> joe, immediately after president trump was elected, the taing to people they just as, didn't know what was coming next. i have to say they have gotten better filtering out or even ignoring some of the tweets. maybe they are better at that sometimes than we are. and looking for the continuity in u.s. interests and power. i think the travels of our secretary of defense jim mattis have made a difference in that. the u.s. military is so persistent around the world you don't really doubt the continui continuity. >> you're saying they have figured out how to sort through this ministry of misinformation? >> joe, i've been struck in two

particular cases, china and iran, two countries that we have a real adversarial relationship with now. the chinese were very destabilized, for example, after trump's comments about taiwan. they kind of settled down and decided they were going to manage the problem. the iranians, after sharp rhetoric in position of new sanctions, pretty similar. these are still kron frontational situations and i think they are pay more attention to where is the u.s. policy going? >> mark halpern, everything i've heard, a lot of american voters who voted for donald trump don't care. they don't care he is lying every day. they doo being he is calling the press enemies of the people. they don't care that is he questioning the federal courts' ability to have judicial review, that he is basically ignoring 240 years of constitutional

precedent. they don't care. they want to know, are we going to get our supreme court justice? and especially with the business people i've spoken with, especially businessmen, they are all lined up behind him. they want the tax cuts and the regulatory reform and here is a memo to washington. they really don't care right now about obamacare. give us the tax cuts. give us the regulatory reform. >> and infrastructure too >> and infrastructure and we are behind yo >> yeah. >> they doon't care what he say or tweets and they don't care about the niceties. they say i wish he would shut up but i want to see him pass all of this stuff. >> we mention things in the morning papers. you have to read john pedoritz column. get there after page six. the reality. he is saying it's a reality. half the country, about half of the country is fine with what is going on and willing to give him a little bit more time.

health care is the key. his legislative agenda really does require this passing but the chances of it passing are better than last 24 hours. >> and nobody was harsher against donald trump and still will bash donald trump than john pedoritz so it's written by a guy truly down the middle the entire process. he is right. if you were for donald trump the day he was elected, you're for donald trump today. and none of this matters. >> the reality is this is going to come down to policy. it's going to come down what donald trump can get passed through the house and the senate into law. it's coming down to health care. it's coming down to removing regulations. if you were to pick an enemy if you were donald trump to pummel the media is the number one any in the country. people love what he is doing to the media. >> what i found, mika, the people, all of the people i'm talking to right now, trying to figure out exactly -- people don't really hate the media. they don't trust them.

they like trump pounding the media. and some people despise them. but the fact is, let's just all admit it, "the new york times" subscriptions at an all-time high and cnn is doing better than cnn has ever done before. their numbers are outrageous ever since he called the costa fake news. our numbers. i think we had our best month ever total viewers just keeps going up. everybody doesn't hate the media because everybody is tuning into to the media. they love the ft and i do agree, especially with a republican base, the media, mika, that is the target. that is the target rich environment, especially because they were wrong about him for the entire campaign. >> look. go ahead. >> and they are not trying to peel the democrats on the health care law. it's the democratic play and means he needs to hold the republicans together and most of them are still with him. >> the irony what has happened, i mean, the times and "the washington post" have returned

print journalism to glory. >> as you glide, i don't think a tax on him to be successful. just the opposite. i think he has helped media. they are making more money than ever. i agree that donald trump has a solid base, 45%, until something happens. until it turns out that he lied about the fbi and it wasn't true. >> he is lying about everything. >> i understand but it's a he said/she said kind of category. >> no. these are straight-out lies and they aren't moving. >> that hasn't penetrated the public consciousness yet that these are straight-out lies. >> what would it take to penetrate? >> i think they know he is lying. >> i think it would take -- >> they don't care. >> it would jim comey standing up and saying, not asking the justice department to do this but standing up and saying, we never wiretapped trump tower. >> i think we need to go to back

to what he said in the middle of the campaign. he could go on fifth avenue, shoot somebody, and still get elected. >> i don't believe that. i think there's stuff he can do and he has done it. there is a crossing over point and a tipping point. >> when? >> there is a some point this will all blow up. >> i think this is unsustainable and i have deep wrp frespect fo voted for donald trump andnd how you did. for the people who voted for president obama, to accuse the first african-american president barack obama who is the most grayful when you came into office, when you blew into town, honestly with most people not really feeling like showing up at the naurinauguration and the pictures would prove that. it's just -- it's below. >> guys, alex has been saying we have to go to break for ten minutes now. we got to go to break. still on "morning joe," fractures over how the

republican party should proceed on health care. two of the key players in the push to replace obamacare, white budget director mick mulvaney and senator rand paul who trump is calling out on twitter in a positive way. with his first reaction to the president's tweet is rand paul and senators tim kaine and tom cotton will join the conversation. a big show ahead. much more to talk about. i think we will need a bigger boat. "morning joe" will be right back. (vo) this is not a video . this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪ ♪ looking for clear answers for your retirement plan?

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house republicans have unveiled their much anticipated new health care plan. white house stress seetary sean sporty spicer answered questions about the new bill and even gave a demonstration how much better it is. >> this plan was jammed down everybody's throat and the consequences took their plans away and doctors away and drove up costs. this plan allows more competition. our plan and far fewer pages,

123, much smaller, much bigger. look at the size. this is the democrats. this is us. you can't get any clearer in terms of this is government, this is not. >> let me get this straight. small hand bad, small crowds bad. small stack of papers, good. >> well, melissa mccarthy is so going to do that. see? >> she has a big job on saturday. >> so listen. listen, mika. i don't know if you know it or not. you didn't get the memo. this is women's day off! right? >> happy international women's day to you all. >> the president has already tweeted about it. >> what did he say? >> i don't believe him. >> his two standard tweets celebrating international women's day. >> really? >> first two tweets of the morning. >> whatever he is saying, i don't believe. >> okay, you made that point. >> because he tweets lies. that's sad. >> any way, mika. the idea that women would ever get a day off is just ridiculous!

women take care of the parents, women take care of the kids, women take care of -- >> of us! >> stupid people! guys. women end up taking care of everything. so women stay off. that's a dream. it never happens. >> the point of this day is show what it would be like if there were no women. >> we would all kind of be in the corner. >> kind of would look like the oval office every day. five guys sitting around reading breitbart. >> i don't know if that is what my house would look like but okay. >> congressional leaders on health care. >> the american health care act is the framerk for fm. we are certainly hoping to improvements and to recommendations in the -- in the legislative process, but -- but this is the bill. >> let's not forget, obamacare is collapsing. obamacare isn't staying. if we did nothing, the law would

collapse and leave everybody without affordable health care. we are doing a act of mercy by repealing this law and replacing it with patient centered health care reforms that we as republicans have been arguing for and fighting for years. >> hard to watch. the members of the freedom caucus spoke out what they branded as obamacare light. senator mike lee joined in saying, quote, this is exactly the type of back room dealing and rush process that we criticized democrats for and mo brooks of alabama said right now the speaker of the house does not have the votes to pass this bill unless he's got substantial democratic support. congressman jim jordan will offer his own bill as an alternative. the so-called clean repeal, some of conservatives want. and there is opposition from other powerful conservative voices, including the heritage foundation premium works and

club for brogrowth. some concerns are concerned what it would do for medicaid expansion in their states. >> let's talk. david ignatius, really bad news from paul ryan, first of all, he really should have told the president, you show me yours first. i'm not going to do this. like we predicted here he is going to put his out, going to get killed. he is going to get run over. mitch is going to do the same thing. mitch is going to get killed and mitch is going to run -- you know. the problem here, if you look at that list, paul ryan is getting it from republicans on the right and paul ryan is getting it from republicans in the middle. medicaid issue i bet ten senators, republican senators are worried about right now. that medicaid issue is going to cut just as hard against this plan as the right wing concerns.

>> for the republicans, welcome to governing. >> it's hard. it's hard. >> it's hard. >> it should be -- >> but it's been a slogan now for years. and now the republicans have to confront the reality. what do you do as a country when pem like certain benefits they get from obamacare and how do you replace those that it's affordable? a lot of republicans don't know the answers yet. they are badly split. i actually think this debate is probably beneficial. given that the republicans don't yet know what they want to do rather than trying to push something through which let's be honest, is what barack obama did in 2009 with the initial version of the affordable health care act. they are going to have a real legislative battle and some compromise will be made and they will either find a solution, pass a bill, or will end up keeping obamacare as it is.

i think ryan is wrong in saying it's just collapsing. it will collapse if they make it collapse. it's fascinating to see the rubber finally meet the road in terms of this huge social issue. >> this was ugly when hillary tried to do it in '93 and as a result me getting elected and when obama tried to do it in 2009. the architect saying the bill is collapsing. i don't know if it is more than they say it is maybe with david but it's on life support. obama did this in '09 and elected the tea part? e -- in '10. it's a judge. it's always a political mistake and it is this time. >> unfortunate it's done in a partisan way and not good for the country. i think it would be better to have one-fifth of the economy dealt with by both parties but won't be. for this to pass they have to do what presidents have to do in

their first year. the presidency on the line and don't make the benefit of the good and try to get the votes. it's not easy but it looks horrible in the beginning. >> i guarantee you this. those moderates, steve rattner, are going to win out. it's going to be paul ryan who is going to have to roll conservatives if they pass this because medicaid, the medicaid part of this is not going to stand. >> a couple of things. this was a product of paul ryan but signed off by the white house. the white house spent a lot of time over the weekend working on this and tafs joint bill. at times the last couple of days trump has backed off a little bit and said it's open for negotiation. but basically the white house is behind it. i think what they are counting on is a n president of their party goi up there saying, this is what i want and thiis what -- >> senate is not going to do it. senate is not going to follow himt. >> if you pass it in the house first and say to the senators, this is it. the one chance you have.

>> i quote john mccain in 1996. quote -- the house doesn't matter. that is how senators feel and if five republicans vote no on this and there will be five republicans who vote no on a bill that got the guarantees that obamacare provides and the expansion of medicaid. it's not saying it should be. i'm saying it will be. >> the four senators -- republican senators like rob portman, have expressed concerns did it a little bit before the bill came out. it's not here to defend them object than optimistic. if that is the only problem you could solve you could probably solve their problem. the problem the other direction people on the right saying if you put more money in medicaid expansion that is definitely a problem. >> we have to go to break. >> conservatives who are already angry where we are right now even more angry. you have an uprising on the right. >> aren't they also counting on

two things? one, that nobody pays attention and that, two, the country has a collective case of amnesia. >> the senators pay attention. >> but they don't even know how much this cost. this hasn't even -- >> no. they are trying to pass this without scoring it! >> that's what i mean. >> they want to get this out of the ways and means committee on wednesday and get up it in the senate by easter -- >> listen. and here is, mika, we are asking -- >> the felon. >> we are asking what is the impact of all of trump's tweets? i'll at any time you what the impact of all of trump's tweets on. there's a senator sitting on the fence on this bill saying, okay, if i vote for this bill, you know what? it could really cost me in west virginia because west virginia depend on the affordable act more than any other state in america, one of them.

>> kentucky. >> kentucky is another one. do i follow the president over the cliff? no. i know he wents be there for me at the ends of the day. >> there is no way. >> that is the accumulated scar tissue that has the impact. david ignatius, the most powerful thing that members of the house or the senate have gotten in the past is a phone call from the president, whoever it is, hey, i really need you congressman, smith. i really need you on this one, buddy. our whole -- everything -- and you know what? congressmen and senators always go along with that. is david ignatius there or am i talking to myself? >> yes, i'm here. >> make us feel more comfortable if you spoke. i thought i was talking to the wall. but, david ignatius, the guy i ran again, the reason i'm not a congressman is president clinton called him up and said, i really need your help on this tax increase. i shouldn't have taken the call from air force one. >> joe, they are going to get

stroked plenty. this white house, if anything, i think is trying to do legislative affairs better than the last one did, president obama really did not enjoy talking to members of congress. i think the problem is in a sense, it's just simpler. these members and senators have to go home and tell people what they are going to do with these absolutely crucial programs that affect people's lives. they own health care now and they are uncomfortable with it. i think they can be stroked some, but i think we are going to have a longer debate. i would be amazed if this is resolved by the end of the year. i think it's going to be tough to do. >> this is going to be ugly. they better pass tax reform and regulatory first. man americans are so worried about keeping their health care coverage. some republicans are not helping calm those fears. we will explain that ahead.

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will the president offer a correction to his tweet this morning at states a 122 prisoners were released from gitmo by the obamaca beginnings

and returned to the battlefield? >> obviously, the president meant in totality the number released on the battlefield and released from gitmo since individuals had been released, so that is correct. >> no, it's actually not. david ignatius. >> help. >> not correct. >> that is not correct, is it? >> not correct. >> no. >> does sean spicer know it's not correct or willingly lying for the -- what is going on? >> 1122 released and only nine of them by barack obama and the rest by george w. bush? >> he just -- he didn't do his sums right. i think, you know, what we are seeing is the way the president just reacts. it's almost a spasm of reaction. he sees something and goes with it. when is somebody going to say, sir, dad, father-in-law, you got to stop this because it goes on day after day. >> thank you. >> and it makes it very difficult for him to run the u.s. government. >> there are people in there who

claim to love the country. there are people who there who claim they are in there because they love the country and they want to help. then you need to help. he needs to stop lying to the american people. you need to step up. >> and people have to have the guts to go up to him and tell him, you must stop. >> why are you is in there. >> >> why are you there? >> this is embarrassing. the president daily brief consists of surfing the web.

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will the president offer a correction to his tweet this morning that states that 122 prisoners were released from gitmo by the obama administration and then returned to the battlefield? >> yeah. i mean, obviously, the president meant in totality the number that had been released on the battlefield. that have been released from gitmo since -- since individuals

had been released. so that is correct. >> play it again just to make sure. >> we had the question and the answer. and, you know, i would say sean spicer is in the most difficult of situations. >> horrible job to have to try to make up for -- >> he's in a horrible position. >> -- a president who can't seem to control himself and spews out lies on twitter. and leaves his team possess clean it up. >> from day one, we found out donald trump will say something that is not true and then he'll have his people have to go out and try to clean up for it and if he doesn't repeat the lie, then he gets very angry. it's just an untenable situation. >> in this case, again, i think the consensus in the white house they want to try to move on from this but reporters are doing their job which is to ask about it for some accountability. but they have got a lot of fights on health care that they got to deal with and this is a fight that, again, i'm told i believe pretty reliably the people around the president say

this is not a fight we want to have. >> unfortunately, he picks a new onevery day. he lies about sothing different every day on twitter. these are unforced errors. this is like the balm sitting down in the tennis court like balmer. >> joining us is national security correspondent for "the new york times," david sanger. and former cia deputy director david s. cohen, the national security contributor for msnbc and nbc news. good to have you both on board this morning. everyone is focused on health care and the debate is there. but i got to ask both of you, how do we move forward from the president making the agencies elgs about the former president that he has done so over the weekend without walking it back and launching investigations. these allegations at this point clearly are not true. i'm not sure how they ever come to bear. how does this president have credibility around the world?

what happens if there is a national security kricrisis or terrorist event and what happens if nobody can believe a word he says. is that a problem? >> it's a big problem. the credibility of the president, the credibility of the presidency, the people who speak for the president, is enormously important for our security. our security guarantees for our allies depends on our allies believing what the united states says that will come to their defense, and i think importantly, our adversaries need to understand that what the president says is reliable and trustworthy and that it is meaningful. >> i mean this with all seriousness. is it highly emotional to worry that the president's credibility is shot at this point, and that we have a real crisis on our hand that is just a matter of time? >> i don't know that it's shot but every day there is another

tweet that is ill-informed or absurd or, you know, simply factually inaccurate. every day heas people go gout and repeat that information, it draws down and spins down the capital, the reliability, the credibility of the presidency. >> here is a chairman of the house intel committee david nunez speaking yesterday. >> is that a proper thing for the president to do? he wasn't asking open questions. he made a declarative statement that the former president wiretapped him. >> as you all know, the president is a neophyte to politics. he's been doing this a little over a year. and i think a lot of the things he says, you guys sometimes take literally, sometimes he doesn't have 27 lawyers and staff looking at what he does, which is, i think, at times, refreshing and, at times, can also lead us to have to be sitting at a press conference

like this and answering questions like you guys are asking. >> like a 4-year-old relies on an army when he is accused by his mom of taking a cookie. >> good try. >> don't think we are that stupid. stop embarrassing yourself. by the way, there will be a reckoning and an accounting when this is all over. so watch what you say. this fever will break. david sanger, george w. bush had a hell of a time getting by foreign countries in iraq, whether it had to do with the intel war against saddam hussein and also later on al qaeda. but how much more difficult is that going to be when we need -- like iran helped us when we were fighting afghanistan. how much more difficult is that going to be when our own president is trashing the intel community and our own president is calling the intel community

liars? >> joe, i don't think this is a theoretical problem. you have a real pblem n. you asked when the crisis is coming along. it's bubbling along in korea right now. you're seeing this unfold day-by-day-by-day and the president -- they have now held more of their situation room meetings on korea than on any other subject. you have a short-term problem and long term. the short-term problem is when the president does this, he send out a tweet like he did on saturday morning. they then have to hide him. you have to put the president in witness protection for a couple of days, sflit while you keep him from being asked questions and you send sean spicer to try to do what he did. the long-term problem is that during that time period you have allies, he was just on the phone with the japanese and the korean acting president the other day, trying to convince them don't worry, we are on top of the korea situation, we are looking at the intelligence. and you know that if he has got

to get out in public on this, he is undercut his ability to go out and make the case. i agree with david. i don't think this is gone by any means. but as you said before, it's an unforced error. >> david ignatius has a question for david cohen. >> david cohen, i want to ask you about another thing we haven't talked about this morning, but it's a huge story and that is the wikileaks release of they claim 9,000 pages of cia hacking documents, hacking tools. people have been talking about this is the biggest breach of intelligence secrets maybe ever. what about this? what are the consequences for the agency? what are the consequences for security? you just have left that agency. give us a sense of what the damage is. >> well, david, i'm not going to confirm that wikileaks dump yesterday was authentic cia material. i can say that, you know, when

there are leaks of the tools, the techniques, whether it's the agencies or the nsa's, that has real impact. the snowden leaks had an impact on our ability to collect intelligence. the material that was released yesterday, if that is real and, you know, i'm not in any way saying that it is, that, you know, could have a significant impact on our ability to do our job, which is to collect foreign intelligence on foreign persons. i think one of the things i saw yesterday that disturbed me was in the reporting on this wikileaks dump was the assertion that, you know, the cia can now use the television in your living room to spy on you. one thing i can tell you when whatever tools or techniques we had at the agency, we used it

against foreign persons overseas. so the american people -- >> so my tv is not looking at me? >> your tv is not looking at you. >> i can tell you if you're watching the show, we can see you. it's like romper room but we don't have to have the mirror here. who do you see out there? >> david cohen and david sanger. >> i see david, i see david. >> david cohen, thank you very much. still ahead, senator rand paul stands with the house freedom caucus, not only to deep announce their party's obamacare replacement, but to announce their own competing bill. the kentucky republican joins us for an exclusive interview. also, the bill's sponsor in the house, the founding chairman of the house freedom caucus, congressman jim jordan. plus, beijing's warning to the u.s. that led to this angry tweet from one of our next guests, senator tom cotton joins us next on "morning joe." safety isn't a list of boxes to check. it's taking the best technologies out there and adapting them to work for you. the ultrasound that can see inside patients,

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the white house reopened for tours today for the first time since the inauguration and one tour group was surprised with an appearance by donald trump! hi ya! >> roll this again. look whose painting he is standing in front of. wow! that is awkward! >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, march 8th. still with us senior political analyst for msnbc and nbc mark

halpe halpern. national security correspondent for "the washington times" david sanger. >> kasie, give us a quick summary at the top of the hour of what is happening behind you on capitol hill between different factions of the republican party. >> sum it up in ten seconds or less. >> we were hoping for this moment for eight years and have gotten it. suddenly, they are realizing in the words of george w. bush, it's hard. it's hard. >> it is. their health care bill had a really tough first day at school. ha to tell you. and it was hard not to jump to concluons yesterday and say, look, this thing could almost be described as dead on arrival. it's still early in this process. it's a very lengthy process but

it took fire from the right and heritage action led by them, americans for prosperity. these groups that quite frankly, have effectively killed legislation in the house not that long ago. you put that in a vise against what moderate republicans want in the senate and rob portman and others are saying about how medicaid that could hurt low income americans in their states. that is a vise that is a potential death grip. two things here i think are really important. if you remember back to president obama did this in 2009. he had nancy pelosi running the show for him and he had sky high approval ratings. he had just swept into office in this historic election. and those two things, i think for president trump, he, obviously, doesn't have that approval rating and this is a huge test for paul ryan. now he said yesterday straight up, i'm going to get 218 if i put this on the floor. but i think it's really not going to be that easy. >> four full days after

president trump accused his predecessor of wiretapping his phones the with white house has done nothing to become up that. sean spicer yesterday said the white house will continue to insist that congress actually spend their time and investigate the president's ridiculous assertions as fact. these are the assertions he put out on saturday morning. >> is the white house position that the president can make declarative statements about a former president basically committing a crime and then the congressional committee should look on into and basically prove it? >> it's not a question of prove it. it's they have the resources and clearance and the staff to -- to fully and thoroughly and comprehensively investigate this and issue a report as to what their findings are. >> but president trump's twitter statement shouldn't be taken at face value about what -- >> sure, it should.

of course. why would -- no. there is nothing, as i mentioned to jim, not he is walking anything back or regretting. he is saying they have the appropriate venue. >> why would the president want congress to investigate for information he already has? >> i think there is a -- there's a separation of powers aspect here as i mentioned to john. >> why waste that? >> it's not a question of waste it. it's a question of appropriateness. >> can't the president just ask the fbi doctor? >> lo -- doctor? >> no. >> has he asked him? >> no. >> i get it's a cute question to question. my job is to talk about the president and what is he doing and what he wants. >> have you seen any evidence to support the president's claim that he has been wiretapped by the previous president? >> yeah. i have not. i mean, i have not seen that evidence. >> have you seen any evidence of that? >> mr. leader, senator -- >> no, i haven't. >> we don't have anything today

that would send us in that direction but that's not to say we might not find something. >> i think that the president of the united states has stated categorically that trump tower was wiretapped, that he should come forward with the information that led him for that conclusion. >> that's unbelievable. >> i feel like -- >> you have two chairs of the intel committee saying we got nothing. we got nothing here. the president, here is what is so important. remember. the president say he may have done this. mr. president, i have just found out that obama tapped my phones in trump tower. >> a felony. >> what did he find out? >> you have spokespeople coming coming awe say the president a lot of stuff. >> kellyanne conway said when asked if there is evidence this actually happened, she had the president -- he is the president of the united states and he has access to information that we

don't. >> not on this case. >> this is crazy town. >> this is crazy town. you look at the leaders, mark halpern, of the intel committees and if this had happened, they would be read into it. the fbi -- they said it hasn't happened. the fbi director says it hasn't happened. the fbi director is trying to get the justice department to come out and admit what the justice department knows that the president was lying. and then you have dueling president conferences. one with sean spicer saying, take what the president says at face value. and then you've got the head of the house intel committee saying, don't take what the president is saying at face value. >> it's an extraordinary given how partisan washington is, it's extraordinary to see that many republican leaders basically repudiate the president and saying what he has has no connection to anything we know. again, it runs the risks of

gumming up the works on capitol hill at the time the president needs every possible piece of energy going towards how to figure out how to pass health care. >> david sanger, the president of the united states not only lied about the 44th president of the united states, he lied about the fbi. he lied abt -- you can go down the line for this to have happened, he would have been lying did the fbi -- >> and walk it back which would end it. >> you can go step-by-step-by-step. he basically trashed the entire government. >> walking it back is not what he does and trashing the government or at least institutions doesn't seem to worry him. i think what is sort of interesting, as you watch president trump sort through these issues is he doesn't think in terms of government institutions and how they might be undercut. instead, he thinks about individuals only. so the new government of the united states in his mind is donald trump and the old government was barack obama. as if obama could simply order

this. so the institutional protections sorted of escape him or at least escaped him on saturday. what i do think he has done now, though, he has already assured that these investigations will be wider than just the russian inner action into the election itself. he has actually assured that it's now going to have to go into the question of his associates. >> right. but what is most incredible is here you have a situation where there is not evidence that he actually was wiretapped or anybody in trump tower was wiretapped and they keep responding by saying let's have an investigation. >> no. >> so how is that going to end? either end they find, in fact, he wasn't or go down a bunch of other rabbit holes and find a lot of other stuff. >> you want me to hold back and i will hold back as long as i can. i'm saying this points to a deep flaw in his ability to function like a human being and think

clearly and methodically about cause and effect. that is troubling. that will lead to bigger problems down the road for him in terms of his presidency. is that fair to say? that is about as masked and veiled and in a box as i can put it. say what you want to say. >> i don't think that will work out. >> i think the biggest problem this president doesn't realize there is a cause and effect. four months i've been saying if you trash the intel community, the intel community will fight back and they will cut you up into little pieces. >> a lot more of them than they are of him. >> there are. you can go back to october and november and saying it repeatedly over and over and again just like i said over and over again three weeks out that trump could win. guess what. he trashed the intel community. the intel community day-by-day-by-day are doing exactly what anybody that is not

a child in washington, d.c. understands. this is all very predictable. you trash the press. you call them enemies of the people. >> what do you think is going to happen? >> they will lose. you pick fights with everybody and everybody, david ignatius. >> we have tim kaine. >> go ahead. >> will fight you back. i guess, david, this is the fringe that is so frustrating. it's all so predictable. w we knew this was going to happen and donald trump is shocked that, hey, you put your hand on a stove it's going to get burned. it's that simple. one follows another. >> joe, i wrote this morning i'm struck by the way in which trump's behavior is so similar to how he behaved as a businessman. if he got sued, if he got into a business fight, he countersued. he would counterattack. he would come back and put together a countersuit and hope to tie the whole thing up in litigation and spend so much

money that he would drive his adversary to withdraw. i think there is a lot of that here. he is feels under attack. the russia story has been going on for weeks and weeks and months. so he is counterattacking and he comes up with the details whether it's true or not, that is not the issue. it's pushing back. i think it's going to get him in a place he doesn't want to be. if you assert that the wiretaps of people in trump tower because of russia connections those are going to be examined. it's nothey were wiretapping him. it's that incidental collection picked up his own people and an issue he is going to have trouble with. >> joining us now from chill a member of the senate foreign relations commit comooet and armed services committee and budget committee, tim kaine of virginia. good to see you back on the show. >> mika, thanks. >> you've served on many levels of government, so i'm grasping here but i can't explain the president's behavior.

i can't explain the lying and the tweeting. i did see that it was a pattern before as an entertainer, was hoping the job would lift him up a tad bit but even criticipatri and fear but it hasn't. what do you make of those swirling down with him? >> the president's behavior is sort of shocking and not surprising because this is a guy who said ted cruz's dad was involved in the jfk assassination on the campaign trail and he got a pass to that. he is saying he was wiretapped or his inaugural crowd was bigger than it was, it shouldn't surprise us. but it is shocking. you don't want to see that behavior in the president. what we need to see and i think such an important role for congress during this administration step up and be article one branch that is independent and strong. i was tough on president obama and tough on congress for not doing a war authorization under

the obama administration. i wanted congress to up its game in the previous administration and we definitely have to up our game in this one because, you know, our citizens and folks around the world they have got to see some of adult behavior' not seeing it out of the white house right now. >> not getting it at all. >> david sanger, do you have a question for tim kaine? >> yeah. senator, as you look around the world and you try to figure out where it is that you're going to see president trump first have to engage with allies and convince them either of a sensitive piece of u.s. intelligence or a sensitive u.s. operation, where is that and what is the effect of this going to be? >> well, i'll be very recent. i was over at the vatican about two weeks ago, two weeks ago today, dealing with the vatican on refuge issues and then was in london talking to some of our allies there. and this russia issue has everybody so concerned across europe and in the middle east too. here is a question that they are

asking. so when all of the intelligence agencies say that russia cyberhacked a presidential election and we didn't do much about it and now this president is trying to deny it, here is the question they have for us. if you won't protect yourself when you're attacked, we know you won't protect us if we are attacked. that raises a lot of concerns. and when the president down talks nato, nous at least in his speech last week he said something good. that suggesteds we are paying lisa attention to the relationships and you all know the key to fighting terrorism right now is sharing intelligence. who do you share it with? you share it with your allies. if you weaken alliance, you actually make yourself more vulnerable. so it is good that there are some in the administration like secretary mattis and others who -- secretary of state tillerson, i didn't vote for him, but i think he believes in the power of building the relationships. they are going to have a heavy burden to do an awful lot of that. and on the foreign relations

committee and the senate, senator corker or cardin, our leads, we will be doing a lot of it too. >> senator kaine, obviously, the intelligence committee has a big job ahead of it now, in looking at all of this. you hear different things from different of your colleagues about the extent to which the fact it's a republican majority will or won't allow it go ahead with a really full in-depth kind of an investigation that you would do. what is your view about that? do you think the senate intelligence committee with a slight republican majority is going to give us a full and fair inquiry into this situation? >> steve, i think it cannot now be turned back. even though i think the majority will probably make some efforts to slow it down and the white use wants it stopped. but we crossed arube conwhen general flynn resigned. what the republicans were saying before that it's sour grapes about the lex. that is so last year, guys, get over it. when flynn resigned, this is the sitting national security adviser, the nation's chief security adviser to the

president and has to resign, not for the campaign, but as security adviser lying to the vice president, maybe lying to the fbi. now you have the nation's chief law enforcement official, attorney general sessions, caught up in clearly false system. we need to get him back before the judiciary committee so we can ask him the questions he would have asked had he not given false testimony when he was before us for his confirmation. the fact it's in the white house means it's going to keep going forward. >> senator tim kaine, thank you. >> thank you, guys. >> chairman grassley yesterday accused al franken of asking sessions trick question. he actually didn't even ask him a question. >> al franken wants sessions to come back. >> it's sessions volunteered he was a part of the campaign. >> trick answer. >> it was a trick answer. >> yes. >> sessions tricked himself. mark halpern, we will get to the charts in a second so wake your kids up on the west coast. if you're still in bed, shake them. rattner is here and he has got

charts, they are fresh charts now. but you're starting to see republicans. start to break off a bit. again, extraordinary this early in the presidency because this would have never happened with barack obama or george h.w. bush or even w., where on the intel issue, we showed a clip of about five republicans. we have no evidence here. the president is lying. basically is what they are saying. health care reform. you've got a revolt in the house and you've got four or five senators on medicaid. and don't tell me that the republican senators from pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin, and states like that aren't going to demand that medicaid is kept intact. >> i'll use a word from the clinton era. compartmentalization. l these departments are asked to deal with the president's tweets and some of other things the white house a has done. at the same time, in a separate compartment they are dealing with health care. i believe that the house, if

they get the votes, they will go to the floor with that 218 and if they gets the votes put pressure on the senate and do what obama team did and buy off senators selectively with little side deals to get this done. i'm talking on health care. >> on health care, a tough stretch. >> very tough. may not work but there is a path. >> steve rattner is looking at how difficult it's going to be to get some who feel they need to undo the damage of obamacare. let's talk about that. >> it's a tough problem. so let's start by taking a look at what obamacare actually is. 26 million people, 26 million people who have gotten coverage under obamacare and if you look at this chart, you'll see that about half of them have gotten it through the medicaid expansion which you guys were just referring to and we can talk about some more. most of the rest have gotten it through subsidies who are not at the become of the income sale. as many as 10 million people

could lose coverage. i'm going to show you why. first, if you take a look at what is going on in the subsidy market, on the next chart, you will see -- there we go. you will see that the trump administration is proposing tax credits of $2 to $4,000 for people and go up to 75,000 a year. those tax credits would not vary about health care costs or where you live or your income. somebody with 75,000 would get the same tax credit as somebody who made 20,000. they are a small fraction what it has been under obamacare. this will drive anywhere from 2 to 4 million people off of health care according to estimates that have been done by

the standard & poor's. >> you have hire income 75,000? >> yeah. >> if you live in the tri-state area and make $75,000 and have three children, lots of luck with your health care. >> those would be known of people who will not be able to afford health care. >> right now, in fairness, right now, for an individual. families get a different deal but for individual they will not get subsidies under obamacare but tax credits under this new plan. okay. if you go to the medicaid expansion. this blue line to up 240 billion would be spent to fulfill the commitment to provide medicaid expansion to people making $20,000 to $40,000 a year ruffle. trump administration plans to cap it at 90 billion and could cost as many as 4 to 6 million

americans their health care because the states are simply going to cut back on their medicaid programs if they don't get this money. by the way, they are also cutting money out of regular medicaid as well which will reduce what is available for medicaid to the states. what is ironic about this plan it is extremely harsh with respect to what happens to the existing obamacare, but given the attitudes in the house and some parts of the senate, not harsh enough in terms of what they would like to see in a full repeal. then on the other side you have the more moderate republicans like rob portman and shelly and states where medicaid was expanded who say this is too tough and so they are caught in the middle of it all. >> you got a lot of trump voters, mark halpern, that were on obamacare who are not going to be pleased. >> no. but no one -- no one is going to be totally pleased with the change but they are committed to

doing it. >> maybe is the bigger question why are they doing this, first. >> it's a reconciliation. there is no choice. mike pence a has been part of the legislative strategy from the beginning and he has great conservative credentials. what is his role in trying to keep the conservative right flank to get them on board with this? >> he is their strategy. if he were in hot house today he would be one of these people complaining it's not conservative enough. take a look. this health care plan is it conservative? >> this is the right plan for america. >> reporter: why are conservatives so opposed? >> i think we are very early in the legislative process and as president has made very clear, we are hoping to work with members of house and senate on ways we can improve the bill. >> reporter: so, yesterday, he walked from that interview down -- he has his own hide-away office in the house and he met with some conservatives to talk about this and a couple walked

out to t micphones with rand paul saying this is our plan. you hadand paul saying this is about getting a seat at the table and a message the president seemed to pick up if i'm reading between the lines of his tweet. rand paul is a friend he'll come around. i think they do have real hurdles even if this is jjust posturing. >> a quick question. on the revenue side of this, the elimination of the mandate is, of course, the big element. how much is that actually going to affect one's ability to fund this thing? >> obviously, in three minutes we only can do so much. >> that's right. >> eliminating the mandate will cause the exchanges to collapse. the ability of people to buy insurance on these exchanges is going to be minimal. one other important feature. they are going to remove 3.8% tax on investment income that wealthy people get. so a lot of us around this table and elsewhere are going to get very large tax cuts even as they

are cutting the guts out of obamacare. >> steve rattner, thank you. >> kasie hunt, thank you. >> still ahead on "morning joe," david, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> we will bring in a member on the select committee on intelligence, senator tom cotton joins us. you ask, but one i think with a simple answer. we have this need to peek over our neighbor's fence. and once we do, we see wonder waiting. every step you take, narrows the influence of narrow minds. bridges continents and brings this world one step closer. so, the question you asked me. what is the key? it's you. everything in one place, so you can travel the world better. and the wolf huffed like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor.

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i think we are on the verge of a good comeback here. every time i turn around i'm being asked about donald trump saying one dumb thing after another and i'm tired of it. >> so lindsey graham says to me, whatever you can do. please. is he a beggar? he gave me his number and i found the card. i wrote the number down. i don't know if it's the right number. let's try it.

202 -- >> very good. very positive. the president is in a deal making mode. i hope congress will be able to respond in kind. i think the president wants to do deals across the board and look forward to helping him put those deals together. >> that was senator lindsey graham on his lunch meeting with the president at the white house yesterday. joining us now another person who met with the president yesterday, a member of the select committee on intelligence and the armed services committee. republican senator tom cotton of arkansas. >> tom, great to have you here. what did you guys talk about? >> good morning. glad to see those who are working out their difference. >> we will see. that will last a week. >> david purdue and i went to the white house to meet with the president about an immigration bill we announced that would refocus our immigration system on high skilled immigrants who come to this country with english language competency education levels that are higher than we have now with higher levels of job skills to be able

to contribute to the economy. right now only 1 out of 15 immigrants come based on those criteria. the president has said in public as he told us yesterday he wants to move in the direction of, for instance, canada and australia, and focus more on what he calls a merit-based system. our legislation is the first step in that. he would like to see additional steps focusing on some the employment based green cards and visa and we were will to work with him on that. >> i heard a couple of days he was talking about actually limiting the number of immigrants coming in, that silicon valley relies on. the high-tech, highly educated immigrants. where is he on that issue? those visas? >> joe, i think on the temporary visa and permanent green cards

like eb1 and 2 they want to get the best from around the world and those are programs don't bring in ph.d.s and computer scientists and rereplace mid level data management workers and you get controversies people losing their jobs in companies like disney in southern california and edison and replaced by foreign workers that were not high skills. it was an impure cal questions where we have gaps in our economy. there is no job that america won't do. americans with the right pay although will do any job and the fact of the matter and we must focus on americans getting back to work and getting higher wages and supplemented where needed based on the evidence with immigration. >> i want to ask you about this wikileaks disclosure of alleged cia hacking tools and lots of documents. two questions. one, has that disclosure done any damage to american security? and, two, are you troubled by

anything in those documents about how the cia conducted itself? >> mark, i don't want to comment on the wikileaks disclosures. i will say this, though. the cia is a foreign intelligence service. it collects intelligence on foreign targets to keep our country safe. it does not do intelligence works domestically but beyond that, i don't want to comment on the contents or confirm or deny anything about the documents that appeared on wikileaks yesterday. ike barnicle? senator, yesterday, the house, speaker ryan, the health care bill, does it trouble you at all that this is attorney thrown out and it's going to be marked up marked up starting today, i think, without any estimate of cost? does not bother you at all? >> mike, i think we are moving a little bit too quickly on health care reform. this is the latest and not like the latest spending bill released on a monday night and passed on wednesday and everybody goes home for christmas and we live for it for nine months. we are going to live with health care reform we pass forever or

until it's changed in the far distant future. so i don't think we need to introduce legislation on monday and amend it on wednesday. that is what they did with obamacare and people have lost access to their doctor despite the promises that were made. i would much sooner get health care right than get it fast. that is after all why we have a congress, so 535 different people from all regions of the country representing different kinds of constituencies can come together and talk at a deliberate pace and try to reach a consensus solution that is best for the american people. so i do not want to move in a hasty fashion. i want to get it right. i don't want to get it fast. the senate certainly will not just be jammed with whatever the house sends over here. >> steve rattner? >> senator, actually, i think mitch mcconnell said he wanted to pass this by the easter recess. i don't know whether that is practical or not. putting that aside, given the bill has now been laid out in great specificity, can you be

for it and if you're not what changes would you want in order to be for it? >> steve, this is my exact point. trying to pass this bill through committee in the house today and maybe pass it through the floor next week, even though it's much shorter than obamacare, it's very hard for us to get our hand around what is in it. the language, as you may have seen it, it's highly technical and complicated and may only be 123 pages long but you have to review it in the context of today's laws and today's regulations. so it's hard to say right now where one stands on any particular provision or especially the bill as a whole. it, obviously, has some good measures. some of the medicaid reforms that will give governors more flexibility to tailor their medicaid programs to their population, to make sure that medicaid protects the traditional medicaid population, like the severely disabled and the blind and the elderly. beyond that, it's simply too soon to say. we have only had this bill in

public 36 hours and to rush it through this week and then vote on it within the next few weeks really does harken back to some of the problems that obamacare was graded under. >> senator, if you went back to your state and heard from constituents that they were concerned about the president's credibility and the white house's credibility, what would you say? >> it's understandable. donald trump won a large majority in arkansas. but 39% of arkansasans voted for one other than donald trump. that is over a million people. i would still say it's early in this presidency. presidents often get a honeymoon because they are formulating their team so we should give him a chance to do so. this president like with any other president or politician, i'll support him when he is right and try to change his mind when he is wrong and if i can't i'll oppose him. >> speaking about when he is wrong. obviously, his tweet on saturday morning talking about barack obama tapping his phones at trump towers, everybody in the intel community has said that is

not the truth. you are, obviously, on the intel committee. i'll ask you what everybody was asked yesterday. had you seen any evidence whatsoever that barack obama ordered any wiretapping on trump tower? >> i have seen no evidence of that, joe. but i would also say a lot of the anonymous sources in the media are stating things that are very precise and not exactly the full picture either. when, for instance, the president spokesman denies that either the president or white house official, quote/unquote, ordered surveillance that doesn't identify if you understand how the surveillance court records. it's a judge that orders those things and the attorney general or her agent that would file that application. >> right. the president is, obviously, on wrong on his face. first of all, saying that -- you're exactly right. saying that barack obama ordered the wiretapping was ignorant of the president. i totally agree with you on

that. then let's take it to the next layer and that is the fisa court. do you -- does anybody in washington, d.c. have any evidence that the fisa court ordered the tapping of donald trump's phones in trump tower? >> well, joe, i'll simply say that the intelligence committee conducts regular oversight of the fbi and department of justice fisa court applications, as well as fisa court activity. it's part of our broader view of russian's activities to undermine confidence in our political system last year. i suspect we will be looking into these matters. these are knowable facts and we hope to learn them and hope to be able to share them with the american people and share as many conclusions as we can. >> tom, don't you know right now, though, tom? everybody else that have span out said no evidence of this. can you say this morning you've seen no evidence that the fisa court ordered trump tower to be

tapped? >> again, joe, you know, when you're talking about what the president said on twitter, he is only dealing in 140 character tweets. >> tu it to the next level. >> general clapper -- >> let's go to the next level and if he did know what he was talking about, he would have said the fisa court ordered these. i'm asking you as we take it to the next level, and agree that he was ignorant in what he said in his tweets, if you take to the next level, then just a question about the fisa court. is there anything evidence anywhere from anything you have seen that the fisa court ordered the tapping of donald trump's phones at trump towers at the end of the election? >> joe, again, let me be precise in the language here. i have seen no evidence of such a fisa order. however, as general cappe said over the weekend, as i believe general hayden has said on your program, it is not uncommon to have what is known as incidental

collection on any american citizen. >> oh, sure. >> simply because a fisa order may or may not exist for another person doesn't mean that other innocent americans will not appear there. for instance. take a wholly hypothetical and different case. fountain fisa has a sqarearch warrant on a suspected terrorist and making phone calls to a fox fertilizer store they may be innocent but their names and content of those communications will appear on the final fisa surveillance matters. i want to be very precise in the way that general -- general hayden has. >> i'm pretty sure that incidental contact has happened. it's been happening to barnicle 40 years in boston. it does happen sometimes. tom cotton, we thank you for your patience and absolutely fascinated and dumb founded why your wife likes your weird but

we are with her. i'm joking. i like it. thank you, tom. great to have you. >> thank you all. coming up, republicans are already facing this uphill battle in selling their new health care bill. a potential giant gap in subsidies for some under the new plan according to "the new york times." now some republicans may make their messaging even harder with tone-deaf comments. >> we will talk about it. >> i don't want to be on their iphones? if you're told you have cancer,

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. obama and his wife michelle were spotted at this gallery of art. much is made of what is he wearing. i could see him wearing this in a number of situations. he could be one of the avengers. he would fit in next to brad pitt. he could be on "the bachelor." he could model for jcpenney. he could walk from an explosion without looking back. which i guess is kind of what he is doing right now. >> i like the jcpenney ad.

>> leave him alone. >> what do you mean leave him alone? >> he has to deal with his felony charges. >> coming up next, united on repeal. divided on replace. no, seriously, he has been accused of a felony. >> we got e foundi chairman of the freedom house caucus jim jordan. he will talk to us about his plans to beat back his own party's health care bill which he and a lot of people are calling obamacare-like. coming up next.

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do you support everything in the bill sitting on the table, sir? >> this is a work in progress and we will work with the house and senate in this process. it's a legislative process that occurs. i'm glad you pointed out the bills on the table. >> can you guarantee that this plan will not have a markedly

impact on deficit or result in millions of americans losing health care? >> i know the goal and desires i know tindividuals on the hill - >> >> let's go to the conservative house chairman. this is as old as the hills, as it goes in congress. we knew when they were trying to pass something behind us, cause they draft it in secret, and they will vote on it next week. that's -- >> they may vote on it today, joe. >> this is no way to not only pass health care, but legislation, especially legislation you call obamacare lite. what are you going to do to stop it? >> you are right. it came out 36 hours ago, and they are going to mark it up and

vote on it today, and representatives only have seen it for 36 hours, and let's do it right and more importantly, let's do what we told the voters will do, and we said clean reveal, and let's vote on the exact same thing we voted on 15 months ago, and then let's work on the replacement model that will bring down that cost of insurance. i don't think the plan they introduced yesterday will bring down the cost for working class and middle class families. >> how many conservative members do you think you have with you? heritage is on your side, and freedomworks is on your side. how many conservative republicans do you have with you right now? >> every conservative group out there is opposed to this legislation, because others have said and i said it's obamacare in a different form, and we

didn't tell the voters we were going to repeal obamacare and start a new entitlement. >> does it pass if it goes on the floor? >> i don't think it could pass today. we had our meeting last night with the freedom caucus, and their opposition was strong with this legislation. this needs to strange in a dramatic way for it to have a chance to pass, in my judgment. the simple thing to do for republicans, pass the clean repeal. and this is what americans hate, we campaign on one thing and then we get here and say we can't do what we campaigned on, we can't do a clean repeal and bring down the costs, and we have to do a different form of obamacare, and that's what the american voters hate, and let's do what we told them we were going to do and what they sent us here to do. >> secretary price, he said what this proposed bill would do is

no increased cost to the government. has anybody told you what the cost of this bill is? what is the cost? >> we don't know because cbo has no score. but put that aside for a second. even if you don't have the cbo score, look at the four corners of the document and read what it says. i think it's not going to bring down the cost for premiums and working class families. that's why i oppose it. it's obamacare in a different form, and that's why i oppose it. i can't believe the score won't be high, because when you are expanding the medicaid expansion, and starting the new entitlement called the tax credits, i have to believe that's a cost to the federal government, but apart from that, just look at what it does, it keeps the federal government in control of how this thing works, the exchange and that sort of thing, and that's the wrong approach because we have seen how bad obamacare has been for the american people the last six years. >> deconstruct this for your

constituents back in ohio, and viewers of the show, and why are mik mike pence and others supporting this if it's so unconservative? >> you will have to talk to them about that. we have a cross section of views -- >> why are they doing that? are they trying to appease the senate or not as conservative as you? why are they supporting it? >> i will let you draw that conclusion. four senators want to make sure the expansion is extended more, and so it could be all that. but, ain, come back to the simple thing, what did we tell the voters we were going to do? we make this job way too complicated. when they gave us the preu lidge

to serve, we are supposed to do what we told them we would do when they gave us the privilege. the thing that unites republicans is clean repeal, and every one of us voted for it 15 months ago, and then we can have the debate on what should be the replacement. for the senators that sent it yesterday, let's work it out and do clean ae peel. >> after clean repeal, was know, there are 26 americans participating in obamacare, and what would your replacement plan look like to deal with the 26 million people? >> it would put in affordable insurance. if people can afford the premiums, they can't afford the deductibles. we want the policies like expanded health savings accounts, and tax deductibility on the individual market side so

you equalize treatment for folks that get their insurance in the individual market and those that get the employer sponsored plans, and we get out all the regulations that drove up the cost of insurance. obamacare sent mandates and drove up the cost of insurance, and they told every american you have to buy it and if not there's a penalty. >> i don't know how any real conservative can vote for a bill th without knowing how much it costs. good luck and we hope to see you on the show in the next few days for a follow-up. still ahead on "morning joe," mick mill veiny, and we will talk exclusively to rand paul, and thelatest on the president's crazy claims that

president obama ordered the wiretapping of trump tower, and so far nobody can provide any evidence to support those tweets. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia

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stop taking myrbetriq and tell your doctor right away. myrbetriq may affect or be affected by other medications. before taking myrbetriq tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure common cold symptoms, urinary tractinfection, constipation, diarrhea, dizziness and headache. it's time for you to make the calls, so call your doctor to see if myrbetriq may be right for you. visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. >> have you seen any evidence to support the president's claim that he has been wiretapped by the previous president? >> i have not seen, i have not seen that evidence. >> no, i haven't.

>> we don't have anything today that would send us in that direction, and that's not to say we might not find something. >> i think the president of the united states, who has stated cat go c c that the previous president wiretapped -- >> we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, and mark halperin, and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner, and david ignatius in washington. four full days after president trump accused his predecessor of wiretapping his phones, the white house offered nothing to support his explosive claims. at the white house briefing yesterday, sean spicer said the

white house will continue to insist that congress will investigate what the president asserted as a fact on saturday morning. >> is the white house position that the president can make declarative statements about a former president basically committing a crime and the congressional committee should look into that and prove it? >> it's not a question of prove it, and it's that they have the resources and the clearances and the staff to fully and thoroughly comprehensively investigate this, and then issue a report as to what their findings are. >> but president trump's twitter statement should not be taken at face value -- >> sure it should. of course -- no, there's nothing, as i mentioned to jim, there's nothing he is walking back or regretting, he's just saying they have the appropriate venue. >> why would the president want congress to investigate information he already has? >> well, there's a separation of

power -- >> why waste that? >> it's not a question of wasting it but appropriateness. >> can't the president just ask the fbi director -- has he asked him? >> no, the president has not. >> do you believe that president obama -- >> i get that's a cute question to ask, and my job is to represent the president. >> this is surreal. it's like a group of third graders have taken over the white house. i am not talking about sean. sean has to speak for the third grader that has taken over the white house, and if he gets really mad the third grader will spill his apple use on the white house carpet and fire him. no, come on. this is surreal. it's really surreal. you have the justice department that has the answer to this question. this is how it would work. hey, hey, mr. attorney general. yes. could you check and see whether

president obama wiretapped the trump tower? old on a second. no, no he didn't. that's it. yet they are calling for a congressional investigation. why are they calling for a congressional investigation? because they know he is lying, and sean spicer knows he's lying, and the president knows he's lying, and everybody in congress knows he's lying, and the world knows he has lying. in fact, republicans, themselves, are saying don't waste our time. all you have to do -- who read the benghazi -- tray gowdy. >> do you think he wishes it would go away? i mean he accused the former president of a felony, and i think the credibility of our president and our country is on the line and he is throwing everything away. >> he accuses of obama a lie,

and the justice department knows it's a lie. >> so the president lied? >> we already covered that. >> okay. >> he now wants to waste taxpayer dollars on an investigation into that. >> to find out that he lied. >> to find out what he could find out by making a phone call, and he lied and he tweeted himself into a corner, and he would raer waste taxpayer dollars than say, yeah, i was wrong. we are not going to let it go away. you don't lie and accuse the next president of committing a crime. he lied about the crowd sizes, and he lied about the votes. 3 million illegal votes, and he said we will have a congressional investigation, and he was lying. where is the congressional investigation? he lies. he says he wants congress to investigate, and then he hopes

that it will just go away. >> well, his staff is hoping it goes away. the crowd size and even the illegal votes is nothing compared to the magnitude of the allegation he made over the weekend. >> i will say 3 million illegal votes is significant, and it fits the same pattern of what he did over the weekend, he lies and gets caught lying and calls for a investigation. >> i am not minimizing the 3 million, and this is more serious, this claim. >> you think? >> yeah, and he hopes it goes away. people said they were doubling down when congress is investigating, and i don't think they care, and they want it to go away. >> they are hoping to bury it with time. we will have congressional investigations and get back to you in september. you are on to the solution here, and there are three phone calls,

all the chairmen in the house intelligence committees have to make, and you call jim comey, the head of the fbi, and you bring them in and ask them did this happen? they say, no, no, and no. >> comey already said he is lying. comey asked the justice department to say -- >> get him on the record. >> they don't want that, because when the president gets him on the record, they will say, no, he's lying. it didn't happen. if they want this lie to go away, he probably shouldn't lie every day, because yesterday he lied and said barack obama leed -- >>hat was an incorrect fox tweet. >> no, "fox & friends" actually got it right. >> oh. >> the president twisted "fox &

friends" tweet. people were flaming fox's fault -- >> no, they had their facts right? >> yes. >> but the president had them wrong. >> but here's the thing. you have to cut him a little slack because he doesn't really have any staff members, so all the president of the united states has at his fingertips is -- >> they are all fighting trying to get each other's jobs, for a ship that is not going down. >> he still has a 45% approval rating. >> unsustainable. i will just say -- >> read john paw door kwreuts this morning. we are still in a bubble. if you voted for donald trump, you like donald trump still. >> i'm sorry you voted for donald trump. >> if you didn't vote for donald trump, you still don't like donald trump. he could on all of these tweets picked up the phone, and hey,

steven, and from everything i heard is a brilliant guy. he would say, no, mr. president, 122, but bush released most of those. all he has to do is pick up the phone and call, but he doesn't, and he embarrasses himself and sets republican legislation back every time he does this. >> there are people around him he can call and get facts. >> i don't know where you get that about steven miller, and steven miller would say the power of the president won't be questioned, so sir, whatever you say is right, go ahead and lie to america. >> donald trump needs to pick up the phone and call staff members. davidignatius, what kind of impact does this have on our allies and adversaries as we try to put together and as we race towards a possible nuclear showdown with north korea, but impact does it have that our

commander-in-chief lies every day about the least important things, how does that guy pick up a phone and say, hey, don't worry, we are going to be standing next to you, japan, and we are going to be standing next to you, south korea -- >> does anybody believe him? >> we are going to be standing next to you, china, if you need us, and you can trust our word. >> joe, immediately after president trump was elected, heads were spinning overseas talking to people, they just didn't know what was coming next. i have to say they have gotten better at filtering out and ignoring some of the tweets, and maybe they are better at that sometimes than we are, and looking for the continuity in u.s. interests and power, and jim mattis made a difference, and the u.s. military is so persistent around the world, you don't really doubt the

continuity -- >> so david, you are saying that they actually figured out how to sort through this sort of ministry of misinformation? >> joe, i have been struck in two particular cases, china and iran. two countries that we have a real adversarial relationship now, and china's were destabilized about trump's comments about taiwan and they settled down, and they managed the problem, and the iranians after sharp rhetoric, new sanctions, pretty similar. these are still confrontational situations, but i think they are trying to pay less attention to the day-to-day and more of where is the u.s. policy really going. still ahead on "morning joe," the plan to repeal and replace obamacare. the press secretary brings out a small tabl in the briefing room to compare the size of the american health care act and the affordable care act.

>> for aufll of the people who have concerns about this, look at the size. this is the democrats and this is us. you can't get any clearer in terms of this is government and this is not. when you actually look at the difference, you realize this is what big government does, it crowds out competition and drives up prices and it stifles entrepreneurship and innovation, and doctors leaving the market. >> trouble ahead as some republicans try to table that plan. melissa mccarthy already has her script. mick mulvaney tries to sell, but senator rand paul is not buying. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. knowing where you stand has never been easier.

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house republicans have unveiled their much-anticipated health care plan. and sean "sporty" spicer answers questions today and gave a

demonstration about how much better it is. >> this plan was jammed down everybody's throat, and it took choices away and drove up cost. this plan allows more competition. our plan, pages, 123, and this, much bigger, and look at the size, this is the democrats and this is us, and you can't get any clearer in terms of this is government and this is not. >> let me get this strong, small hands bad, and small crowds, bad, and small stack of papers, good? >> melissa mccarthy, i can see it. >> she has a big job on saturday. >> yes. >> listen, mika, i don't know if you know it or not, you did not get the memo, this is women's day off. >> happy international women's day to you all. >> president trump tweeted

already about it. two tweets of the morning so far. >> whatever he is saying i don't believe. >> you made that point. >> because he tweets lies. that's sad. >> mika, the idea that women uld ever get a day off is ridiculous women take care of the parents. >> yeah. >> women take care of the kids. >> yeah. >> women take care of -- >> of us. >> -- of us, stupid people, guys, and women take care of everything, and women's day off, that's a dream, never happens. >> that's the point of the day, to show what it would be like if there were no women. >> we would be in the corner. >> it would look like the oval office every day, five guys sitting around and bringing breitbart. congressional leaders on health care. >> the health care act is the framework for reform, and we are

certainly open to improvements and recommendations in the legislative process, but this is the bill. >> let's not forget, obamacare is collapsing. obamacare isn't staying. if we did nothing, the law would collapse and leave everybody without affordable health care. we are doing a act of mercy by repealing this law and replacing it with patient-centered health care reforms that we have been fighting for for years. >> hard to watch. members of the freedom caucus spoke out as what they branded with obamacare lite, and senator mike lee joined in saying this is the type of back room dealing and rushed process that we criticized democrats for, and mo brooks said, right now the

speaker has no support. and jim jordan will offer his own bill now as an alternative, the clean repeal, and some conservatives want this, and there are other conservative voices, including freedomworks and club for growth, and there are senators concerned about what the new plan would do to people covered under the medicaid expansion in their states. >> by the way, this is -- this is from the otherside. let's talk. david ignatius, the really bad news for paul ryan is first of all, he really should have told the president, you show me yours first. i am not going to do this. just like we predicted here, he's going to put his out and get killed and then mitch is going to -- >> said that before they did it. >> the problem here, if you look at the list, paul ryan is getting it from republicans on

the right and paul ryan is getting it from republicans in the middle, and the medicaid, i bet you ten republican senators are worried about that right now, and this medicaid issue will cut just as hard against the plan as the right-wing concerns. >> for the republicans, welcoming to governing. >> it's hard. to repeal obamacare -- >> this has been a shrologan fo years, and now the republicans have to confront the reality, what do you do as an alternative when a lot of the country likes certain benefits they get from obamacare. how are you going to replace those in a way that is affordable? it's obvious the republicans don't know yet. they don't have the answers. they are badly split. i think this debate is probably beneficial, given that the republicans don't yet know what they want to do, rather than trying to push something through, which, let's be honest,

it's what barack obama did in 2009 with the initial version of the affordable health care act, and they are going to have a legislative battle and some compromise will be made and they could find a solution and pass a bill or we will end upkeeping obamacare as it is. i know ryan is wrong is saying it is collapsing, and it will collapse if they make it collapse. it's good to see the rubber finally meet the road in terms of this issue. we will talk more about the future of the affordable health care act when "morning joe" comes right back.

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coming up on "morning joe," days ago he was in congress, and now mick mulvaney will have to win over some of his colleagues if donald trump is going to fulfill his campaign promise of repealing and replacing obamacare. in his way, rand paul. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> joe and mika, these fast-moving brushfires in area of oklahoma and texas, and the winds were gusting from 40 to 50

miles per hour, and these are not the fires you get in the mountainous areas in the west, and they burn the dead grass from the last season, and the fuel leftover. 1,000 people had to evacuate. and here's the storm responsible for all the windy conditions yesterday in the middle of the country. windy today up in the great lakes, and travel is not too bad today, and it's mild out there and not a lot of weather headlines. let's fast-forward into thursday night. this is a little weak system that is going to come through areas of the southern great lakes come thursday evening. by the time we go through the overnight hours, this blue is snow, and the areas extremely warm are going back to winter and we should have snow from new york to southern new england as we go throughout the day, and ending by about noon in boston, and we are talking about one to two inches in areas from pennsylvania to southern new england, and mostly on the grassy surfaces and cars, and hopefully the roads will be sloppy and slush ily, and it

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we have to admit we are divided on replacement. we are united on repeal but we are divided on replacement. >> there is one score that the american people will pay attention to, and that is does it really lower their health care costs and premiums? that's the only score that really matters. if this doesn't do it then we need to make sure that we find something that does do it. >> if we liken this to sort of donald trump's world of everything is a negotiation, what we have now is an opening bid and it's about asking this simple question, which is do we need to lower the bar in what we believe as conservatives simply because a republican is in the white house? >> i think amidst this, we can

find a pony around here somewhere. i think we will have a race horse as long as we get good amendments when we are done. >> from the office of budget. mick mulvaney. >> we heard a lot of colleagues there, including louie talking about having a race horse there. what do you say to all of the freedom members of the caucus. >> i told them last night, they are missing a couple things. first of all, most importantly, this bill is part of a three-phrased plan, and we have a bill that deals with everything in reconciliation, and we will talk about that in a second, and we have -- for example, the president talks about interstate sales and

medical malpractice reform and you can't do that through reconciliation and those are separate stand alone bills, and i encouraged them last night and today, and you put the whole thing together and it's a fabulous presentation and bill. >> what about scoring it? obviously jim is concerned there's no cbo score, and it's hard to support a bill if they don't know the cost of it. will they know the cost of it before they know how much it will cost? >> of course, and i jim knows that and i was disappointed to hear that. that score will be there before the final vote, and just as importantly, however, this is a reconciliation bill. we all know it's going to score positive to helping out the deficit, to spending less money. another thing conservatives should be supportive of. i hear talk about the cbo score,

and is it going to be really good or great when that number comes out, and it's going to be on monday. >> looking at a "washington post" report when it comes to cuts to the coast guard and tsa in exchange for the border wall. is that true? >> mika, we are still in the process and wrapping up the process of the budget spending line, and we talked about some of the reductions within agencies, and we will release the budget a week from today, what the final planned reductions are in order to pay for national defense, and we talked about the budget on the show before, and the president wants to increase national security and law enforcement and pay for it for reductions elsewhere skpbgs that elsewhe elsewhere.

>> so it will be paid for in the budget somehow? >> the president's commitment was he would spend more on defense and less on other things. >> i am not trying to be snarky, but he did say the payment would come from elsewhere. >> in what the house bill proposes, what is your range estimate of how many fewer people will have health insurance? >> we are looking at it a different way, mark, and insurance is not the end goal, here, is it? it's one of the conservatives and republicans' complaints about the affordable care act, it was a great way to get insurance and a lousy way to go to the doctor. can ordinary people afford to go to the doctor, and we are convinced it would be possible for more people to get better care at the doctor thanhis plan under obamacare. >> how is tt going to work? the truly poor, and the truly indigent, those that need health care the most at specific times and their children, how do they get access to health care under this proposed bill? >> mike, the truly poor and indt

get medicaid. conservatives have been talking for years and years about not just the money that can be saved but the efficiencies that can be driven by giving control to the states about medicaid, so the truly poor and indigent will have access to medicaid. >> when i first ran, i ran in large part because i was concerned about the deficit and debt, and at the time it was a $4 trillion debt, and that was a long time ago, and then there was power under bush, and it doubled and then doubled again under barack obama, and a lot of people have been putting the pencil to the paper suggesting donald trump's budget will cause the $20 trillion national debt to go to $30 trillion, and can you assure us as a fiscal hawk

you are not going to see the deficits. >> sure, break it into pieces and parts. the top line spending bill, which is the first part of the budget, the thing that we will release next week will reflect that commitment by this president. spending more on defense and not adding to next year's deficit. we will still have a deficit next year, but that's $54 additional billion we will not find to it because we will find savings elsewhere. and then the real drivers of the debt, and medicaid is one of the large drivers of the debt. >> does the president understand medicaid and social security have to be reformed? >> absolutely. i think anybody that looks at the numbers understand that, and the point of the matter, the first opening shot from the presidency has to be we are going to build the fence and not add to the deficit. here's a bill that not only repeals and replaces obamacare but helps our long-term deficit on medicaid, and look at what the president is doing to see what he really believes, and what he believes is, we do have

to get that fiscal house in order. >> all right, thank you so much for being with us, and we appreciate it. >> hard, but i will try. look what he is doing and not what he is saying, i guess? >> well, if you look at the column this morning, that's what voters are doing. >> john will be on tomorrow and we will talk about it. president of the action network, reverend al sharpton is with us, and good to have you with us onboard. >> good morning. >> my goodness. many americans are so worried about their coverage, but some republicans are certainly not helping sell the new plan. representative jason chaffetz suggested low-income americans may need to make a choice between purchasing health care and buying an iphone. >> americans have choices and they have to make a choice, and rather than getting that new iphone that they love and will spend hundreds of dollars on

that, maybe they should invest in their own health care and they need to make those decisions themselves. >> and many accusing the utah representative of being insensitive to high cost of health care on the incomes of people. >> the cost of a iphone $399, and then hearing him compare the two as they they are the same, priceless. >> maybe i didn't say it as smoothly as i possibly could, but people need to make a conscious choice. i believe in self reliance. they are going to have to make those decisions. we want people to have access to an affordable health care product. >> and then there was republican congressman, roger marshall of kansas that said, quote, it's just like jesus says, the poor will always with us. there are a group of people that

don't want health care. the medicaid population, which is on a freeredit card as a group, dorobably the least preventive medicine in takg care of -- >> just stop. >> i will stop. al sharpton, yesterday -- and i am again today, i am floored by this. for somebody to talk about jesus and the poor that way is a complete twisting of everything that the gospel is about, everything. i don't care -- read the gospel. read the sermon on the mount, and jesus was pretty clear, i am going to separate the goats from the sheep, and those who are going to be with me in heaven and those who will not be in the kingdom of heaven, and so much comes down to how do you treat the least among me, and if you did not feed me or give me water, then you are turning me away. >> that was the mandate of

jesus. >> matthew 25. >> did they hear of the good samaritan? the whole story was the guy that would stop and help the poor when people of the same religion and same creed wouldn't. did they ever hear what jesus told the rich man, sell all you have and give it to the poor? this selective use of compassion, and you are responsible for being down and that's your fault, rather than why don't you just get up or do something else -- >> you don't want health care. >> you and i can disagree on how to best serve the poor, and we have. i believe in more free market approaches and you believe in more governmental approaches, and if you have read the gospels, it can't be clearer. i read a publication, and they talked about jesus could not have been clearer. look at all the red lines.

it's all about having faith in jesus, and then jesus says go out and help the least among us. >> which was the mandate. if you look at people who are concerned about their health, their grandmother's health, poor people, working every day, and on the day tt you unl or unfold to the public a health care plan, you have a member of congress who chairs an important committee saying, oh, maybe you just shouldn't buy you an iphone. what are you saying to the american people? first of all, it's not only comparative money wise, it's the most insensitive kind of message you could send to people that are absolutely frightened that they cannot survive during these times. >> mika, i remember sitting in college and hearing a guy in college class saying anybody that wants a job can get a job, and it was the sort of same attitude. i sat there thinking about that a year and a half, and my father played by all the rules and

worked his ass off his entire life, and got a great job and then in 1972 got laid off, and there was a recession and there was a problem with the company and their stock went down, and we spent the next months driving around towns across the southeast trying to find a job for my dad. when people say you can get a job -- it's so ignorant, and it's just -- how could that guy be in congress? how could he be representing people by being that isolated from reality? >> i would say that we are asking that question from the top down now, and i think that the level of the conversation has been opened up to a new low. >> i agree. you know, i think one of the things -- as you just stated, you and i don't agree on approaches all the time, but you and i ought to do a bipartisan duo for this administration, and

we need to teach them bible class, and they don't understand what a refugee is, when i said jesus was that, and i would like to teach black history to devos and secretary carson. >> the first book we are going to study, 2 kcor. it's staggering, they wanted power for a long time and they have got it. you look at these quotes. one talking about, hey, don't by an iphone and you can afford health care, poor people, and one saying the poor will always be with us, and they don't want health care and they are too lazy and stupid to do it, and you have the hud secretary

saying slaves were immigrants, and you have had health care reform put on the table and the republicans are at civil war, and i could go on and on. there are about ten things that happened over the past two days that are just remarkable. >> the caricature of the republican party, and you put it through the filter of health care, cut taxes on the wealthy and reduce benefits for the least among us, and those bills have a lot of things in it that lead up to the character, and the head of omb said it will be better for poor people, and they have long way to go to convince people that this will be better for the least among us than they have made progress on that so far, and it's going to be hard for them because there are elements of the bill that would suggest tax cuts of the wealthy while cutting off benefits. >> you have republicans, mike,

playing to type, the worst type, in what they are saying about the poor. >> joe, the clip that we play, jason chaffetz, the comments you read from the other members of congress are truly depressing. they make you wonder, what kind of lives do these people lead? do they not know that the single hardest job in america is being poor, being poor with children? you met yesterday with the attorney general of the united states, and he, i think s. another representative of our government right now who has no clue what it's like to be poor, to be struggling to be hurt and damaged. >> we met, six of us that lead the national rights organization, and we talked to him, and this is not one of these let's all look like we are glad to be here, and they have real concerns here, and there are people on the ground that are concerned when you have a

travel ban and could lead to profiling, and we are dealing with policing issues, and the right to vote yesterday, it was the anniversary of bloody sunday, and me meeting with him in that building, it started with the legal defense. >> what was his response? did you find common ground anywhere? >> we did not expect that. we wanted to be on the record. >> was he listening? >> he sat there almost an hour. he called me, and we wanted a collective meeting, and these little private photo-op meetings is an insult to the american public. we need to be able to meet -- >> would you call it a constructive meeting? >> we will see where it goes. we want to see what he does.

will he continue the texas case, and will he talk about the eric gardener case, and will he pursue already the indicted walter scott case. >> what did he say on walter scott? >> he said he is aware of the case and is moving forward but couldn't tell us how aggressive. where is he on hate crimes? you have jewish cemeteries being decemb desecrated. you ought to be saying this is illegal. you have had lauren skwraoeutious in these areas, and you need to speak up and protect the law. that h b. it doesn't matter which pty he is in, we expect the attorney general to protect people under the law. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we will work on the bible study. >> yes, sir. >> that's got a lot of work.

and then discussing the republic health care plan at the white house, but is there anything he can say to win the support of the bill's most vocal critic? senator rand paul joins us with an exclusive interview next. nki. alright, and before that? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? oh yeah sure... ok, like what? but i thought we were supposed to be talking about investing for retirement? we're absolutely doing that. but there's no law you can't make the most of today. what do you want to do? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. yea. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change. investment management services from td ameritrade. why do so many businesses rely on the u.s. postal service? because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. ♪ that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes

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get the president onboard. he's not going to be willing, mostlikely, to sign anything that doesn't have a federal guarantee of pre-existing conditions and a federal guarantee of people staying on their parents' health care until they are 25 or 26. >> joe's warnings to republicans last month on how their obamacare repeal efforts would likely play out. how is it looking today after president trump embraced the plan yesterday morning, and then he tweeted out i feel sure my friend, rand paul, will come along with a great and new health care plan because he knows obamacare is a disaster, exclamation point. and joining us now, rand paul, the president's friend. >> the ball has been passed to you now. tell us about -- he apparently does not like the house plan anymore, and tell us about your

plan. >> our plan is different, and obamacare lite, and it bails out the insurance companies, and my plan would legalize freedom and competition and get rid of all the mandates so inexpensive insurance could be sold and all allow health saving accounts to expand, and we let individuals join in a group and get a guaranteed issue through the marketplace and not through a mandate. one of the things people are not talking about enough is, what was told to us, if you keep the mandate issue, the house leadership plan has a insurance company bailout into it because it does not work. you can't have guaranteed issue without a mandate, and that's where obamacare put it in there, and what you have to have is a plan like ours that gets more

people into group insurance, and it allows them to flee the individual marketplace. >> on the medicaid issue, a number of republican senators came out and said they could not support the concern the bill becausit's not generous enough in medicaid. what does your bill do in that area? >> we think that should be addressed in the repeal bill, and that's the point that i told the president when i talked to him on the phone, and we said in our press conference yesterday, the republicans are in agreement on repeal but not in agreement on replacement, and widely apart in replacement, and i think there is a chance of a clean repeal, and let's vote on replacement same day, but separately. i think that's the only way this gets through. >> senator, i know you have principled objections to this piece of legislation, and so do

some of your colleagues like rob portman in ohio, and how do you solve that to trying to win over your support while you already have colleagues that think the bill goes too far? >> it is a conundrum, and that's why we should vote on what we all agree on, kphraeclean repea. i am guessing democrats and republicans will come together and expand medicaid. many conservatives won't vote for that because mainly it doesn't work, and we are dishonest in the accounting, and the current medicare is $35 trillion in the hole, and then adding new entitlement programs to that. if you want to have medicaid for everybody in all of these states, you should be honest with the people and double or triple the state income tax and double or triple the sales tax, and i am not for that but that's what it would take if you were

honest, and instead they say the federal government will pay for it, and we have no money, and it's just dishonest accounting. >> in your reference of the conversation with the preside, it's a detailed no matter whose planner talking about, do you think he fully grasps the details and the complexity of the plan? >> i think the white house and the president understands there's enough conservatives they can't pass obamacare lite, and every conservative that has come out publicly opposed to this has been called by the white house and is being wooed by the white house to give in, but if conservatives stick together we will have a force and a negotiation, and we will talk about clean repeal versus replacement, if we stick together, because they don't have the numbers to pass it at

this.t this. >> thank you so much. mika, final thoughts? >> there's a lot of good people in washington trying to do good, and i hope they are trying to move things forward in the months to come. how about you? final thoughts? >> i think republicans are just walking in the same trap as obama did and clinton did on health care, and this is a mess. >> it's a tough choice on what to begin with. >> you are going to have republicans in states like wisconsin, ohio, and west virginia that are going to go in the opposite directions where the conservatives are going. >> and gear up and say, how can we pressure members that currently say they are not going to vote for it to vote for it. >> i don't see them doing that in that senate. >> and the wikileaks, this is a

hate america group, and it's not a privacy group, it's a hate america group. >> yeah. >> and it continues. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. this is a love america group. good morning, i am stephanie ruhle. an opening bid, that's how some republicans are describing the white house-backed bill to replace obamacare. president trump is optimistic. >> we are going to have tremendous support. i'm already seeing the support not only in thioom but i am seeing it from everybod >> house republicans, not so much. >> do we need to lower the bar in what we believe as conservatives simply because a republican is in the white house. >> we will break down the embending fight with senator elizabeth warren, and the head of trump's small business administration. >>