>> it sounds to me as if you just suggested a purge, a governmentwide purge from the white house directed by the white house of any staffer who previously worked for the obama administration, is that what you're suggesting? >> anyone who's a political appointment is what i said and i will use the word purge. i think that needs to happen. i think it's a descriptive word that fits well within the english language and i know there are people who attach

extra meaning to that. i don't know a better word to use. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." offering some free advice to donald trump, plug the leaks in his leaky administration by conducting a government wide purge of all political appointees who worked in the federal government while barack obama was president. well, it seems that trump was already one step ahead of his congressional supporter because a half hour after king said those words, the attorney general jeff sessions ordered the immediate resignation of all 46 u.s. attorneys remaining from the obama era. that includes. he's the manhattan u.s. attorney that expected to remain in his post after donald trump asked him about staying back in november. the surprise fiergz follow a january purge at the state departments of its senior leadership and a abrupt reassignment of career civil servants at state last month. that paranoia and people who

worked in the federal government during the obama era and members of what breitbart world calls the deep state. might be conspiring behind the scenes to undermine and sabotage the trump administration both through leaks and something more stinster, illegal nixon style wiretapping starts all the way at the very top as we saw last saturday with donald trump's weird out of the blue tweets claiming without any evidence whatsoever that he was secretly wiretapped at trump tower by barack obama. king added his own bizarre twist with the claim that trump was wiretapped not only before the election in trump tower in new york, but also during his presidency in the white house. listen. >> we believe that president trump was wiretap in his conversation with the president of mexico, wiretap again with his conversation with prime minister of australia and fairly definitive stories about the

pfizer warrants being -- >> all right. joining us now our panel. thank you all for being here. joel, i'm going to start right here at the table with you. these conspiracy theories that bribe was somehow ordering the ongoing hacking or wiretapping of donald trump and i guess doing it from hawaii or new york or wherever he is, he's apparently a ninja in addition to being a former president. what do you make of this? is this donald trump misreading something that's actually happening? there are other sort of interesting figures in trump tower and that he's just misexplaining it? or do you think that he genuinely believe that former president obama is wiretapping him? >> i think there's a bigger dynamic. the problem with donald trump as president of the united states

you have access to the best information in the world. you have access to more information than anything, any one in the world and he seems to react things he reads on breitbart or some where else and what that does is create chaos and i don't think it's always planned chaos, i think it undermines his credibility at the time when the most important thing for him to be doing as a president who got elected with a low approval rating, low trust ratings is to be rebuilding credibility. >> and part of what he also seems to be doing, jack rice, is using the what he and hannity and breitbart call the deep state as a way to essentially undermine american trust in our own institutions in the government but he is in the government. i've never seen a white house try to work to destabilize american trust in the government and his source of information, his sources appear to be not only things like breitbart.com, not only sort of conspiracy theories but the tv. he seems to be being spoken to

through the tv and given suggestions and then executing them. let me listen to shawn hannity. this was his a plok on thursday night on his show on fox news that sounds suspiciously what wound end up happening on friday. >> for weeks we've been warning you about the deep state obama holdover government bureaucrats who are hell pent on destroying this president. it's time for the trump administration to begin to purge these sab tours before it's too late. you have shawn hannity telling him to purge the sabateurs. and then donald trump's administration starts purging people they think are the sabateurs i guess. >> yeah, i'm more concerned about a russian mold than the deep state. we need to really look at what's going on here. you look at the connections between the russians and paul manafort, the connections between the russians and mike flynn, the connections between

sessions, between kushner, the list goes on and on and on and our problem is we have no idea about the connections between the president himself and the russians because he won't release his taxes. if this is about an investigation and this is about transparency and he wants to complain about the conspiracies around the world, fine. then let's just open it up, lay it out and figure it out. how about that? i know it's not shocking but there we are. >> but the thing is that there are investigations that are cooking on capitol hill, but it does appear that at least a lot of republicans are taking the bait that the trump administration is putting out. we're going to investigate but we're not going to investigate donald trump and his team's ties to the russia. let's listen to devin nunes for making an excuse for why donald trump doesn't understand the government. he should in theory be leading an investigation of trump's ties to russia. >> is that a proper thing for

the president to do? he wasn't asking open questions, he made' declarative statement that the former president wiretapped him. >> as you all know the president a knee owe fight to politics. he's been doing this a little over a year and i think a lot of things that he says you guys sometimes take literally. sometimes he doesn't have 27 lawyers and staff looking at what he does. >> rosa, shouldn't he have 27 lawyers and staff looking at what he does? >> he certainly should. there are a couple of ironies here's. one is this wiretapping allegation, either he's nuts and it's completely crazy or he is somehow deemly aware of something going on in the justice department in which he or one of his crohn niz is being investigated for something criminal and he shouldn't have access. if that's the case he obviously should not have access to wiretap transcript and the justice department has not denied the possibility that there is some kind of ongoing

investigation that may have encompassed trump or his campaign aides. either his nuts or there is something fairly bad going on which he should be worried about but he has nothing to do with political vengeance from obama. the other thing that always just drives me nuts when i hear this stuff about the deep state and purges is, you know, there is no deep state. there are public servants, many of whom have worked hard their entire lives on behalf of the united states of america and it really makes me angry when people start talking about them as if they're the enemy. we have a government for a reason. our government does things for us like make sure we have a military, make sure we're safe, make sure we have education and hospitals and highways and i really wish that the president would stop acting like we can get rid of it and it's all evil. >> as somebody we could say it a former member of the deep state, we all have to interrogate you all before you leave the studio, that is the thing is that you now have not just regular

conspiracy theory rifts who are reading breitbart.com saying there is this deep state government conspiracy. you're the president of the united states actually working to undermine trust in government from within. we're going to talk -- have you ever heard of a president doing that before? >> no. it's never been done. we have a conspiracy theory president and i'm not even sure whether you can put those three words together in a tangible sentence and use the word president. he seems to be buying every crazy idea that's out there. now, granted, the man can't seem to tell the truth about anything and the worse part is like jennifer rubeen wrote an article, the questioning whether he could actually determine what was real and what was false in his world. this is dangerous. and as much as is sounds amusing, he controls 4,000 atomic weapons.

he controls the levers of power in the united states. if he's going out with steve king and other in congress and saying that the president of the -- the former president of the united states wiretapped a conversation he had a few weeks ago with the president of australia, i mean we have got a very serious problem here. this man may be in a position where he will start causing true harm to american democracy because he doesn't know the difference between what american democracy is and the crazy things which he's told by people like steve bannon and other parts of the, you know, right world. >> i think actually that is a very important point to make because you do have a president who is surrounded by sort of an alt state and that is this group of bannonites -- i don't know what you call them. they want this christian white nationalistic edge noe state and people like stiefel bannon,

people like sebastian and michael anton there is a core of people around donald trump who want him to complete believing conspiracy theories who want him to essentially believe president obama can wiretap him from hawaii or wlfr he happens to be. they want him to believe conspiracy theories. >> absolutely. the challenge for every president in being successful is having people around you who will tell you the hard truths not feed you the things you want to hear. you're ultimately as george w. bush said he's the decider and to have a president who can't distinguish between what's real, what's fact and what isn't is very dangerous particularly in the times we're living in and i think these are the things that are going to cause the biggest problems for donald trump going forward. he's got to understand which he doesn't seem to right now what this job is all about, what it requires to do it well and intelligently and if he keeps thinking it's about having rallies and running a campaign,

it's great to drive your message but you're now the leader of the free world and he hasn't acted like that day in and day out after being inaugurated. >> are you worried there's no one around him like that to counter balance the bannon ring? who is there to be the jim baker and balance out the madness that's being fed to this obviously conspiracy minded president? >> that's a void or people like karen hues who were there for george w. bush or david axelrod or david plouffe, people who would stand up to the president and say to him, no, sir this is not the right course. it's ultimately the president's decision. he's the reality, here's the set of facts you have to base your decision on. ultimately the president has to decide but they're not even considering what the facts are each day. he goes out and shoots from the hip. that's the most dangerous thing to have in the president of the united states. >> just had members of congress go to cia themselves.

what might they -- will the cia give members of congress the real raw truth are they concerned that might end up leaking? is there a quote/unquote, background part of the intelligence community that might be afraid to fully brief congress or the president because they don't know whether it'll end up on the front page of brigeitbartbreitbart.com? >> they need to be concerned. they just have to lay out what's really going on, the pron is it's been twisted, and tweaked and torqued around at the white house p. what we need to be established is this is the truth. this is what we see. this is what is objectively going on out there and you have to put it out. if you're going to be a pro, you got to be a pro. this is the case whether you're in the intelligence community or a journalist. you're finding that the white house is attacking both and as a result the only true response is to be the most professional that you can be to establish what's happening and then let it lay out as it's going to. it's the only way to approach

something like this. >> all of our guests are going to come back and jack rice gets the prize for saying torqued. the first time our torqued was said on our show. >> oh, gees. thanks a lot of allowed. >> coming up, connecting the dots. trump/russia style more on that after this. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products.

because no one kills germs better than clorox. termites. we're on the move. hey rick, all good? oh ya, we're good! we're good. terminix. defenders of home.

this week california representative eric swalwell connected the dot between donald trump, his associates and russia. with this handy dandy chart. now if all the names and web of russia ties have let you confused let's start by focusing at the guy on the far right of that chart, vladimir putin and ask yourself, what might he stand to gain from that web of

connections to donald trump? to answer that question, let's go back to what we believed have been putin's primary goals as stated in the still unsub-st.ed dossier. goal number one, the lifting of u.s. sanctions against russia that were imposed over russians invasion of crimea. one of the names on that chart felix saider is believed to have been one of the primary architects of a peace plan for ukraine and russia that could have in theory paved the way for trump to get those sanctions lifted. it was hand delivered to the office of michael flynn by long time trump lawyer michael cohen. the plan leaked to the new york times last month and even republicans have made it clear that they would stand in the way of lifting sanctions against russia. then there's putin's long time mission to underlie the united states as a leader in western democracy. and what better way to do that but to undermine two of the

agencies, the state department and cia. will well, the state department just happens to be headed by former exxonmobil ceo and recipients of award. wikileaks. virtual a bomb on the u.s. releasing more than hacked documents from the cia's ability to spy through smartphones and televisions to alleging the agency is part of an evil conspiracy to damage, wait for it, russia. so how close is russia to getting what it wants oust trump world? and before we get to the russia of it all we talked about michael flynn there. who we now find out was not only quite sweet on vladimir putin sitting at his table, taking maybe we don't know how much money to be an analyst but also russia allied turkey. we now know that the daily caller of all people has reported that flynn paid some of

the former fbi agents behavioral analysts in lobby work for the turkish government. we also know the associated press has revealed that the trump transition team knew that flynn might register as a foreign agent because he was lobbying for turkey while he was working for the trump campaign. we know they know that because a letter was sent to vice president elect in november warning about flynn, lieutenant general flynn's robert kelly confirmed they were hired by a foreign company when asked when the whether had been hired because of flynn's close ties to president-elect trump. mr. kelly responded. i hope so. what do you make over this debackle? >> i am torn in thinking, yes, this is a vast russian conspiracy, when russian's allies influence or destabilize russian politics and thinking this is the usual story of

corruption, greed and ikts. it looks like mike flynn got out of government and he immediately started trying to cash out and he was not very scrupulous about who he'd take money from. yet another irony is the company that was paying him to do all this, the company with ties to the turkish government and in turn ultimately to russia, they want some of their money back because they don't think flynn's firm did such a great job. i don't know. i think i'm a little bit coming down when it comes to michael flynn on the side of greed and incompetence. >> he keeps getting fired. he got hired by russia today and now apparently the turks want to fire him too. let's talk about the other entity that keeps swirling around trump world and that is wikileaks. they've released a cache of documents damaging u.s. intelligence efforts. it's going to make it harder to collect on terrorists, on the

russians, you name it. at what point, asang is not some defender of freedom, he's an antiu.s. and pro-russia whatever you want to call it. >> i think we start back on july 23rd when both i and ball krugman wrote an article in "the new york times" calling wikileaks out i made media statement calling them a russian laundry mat. they are a wholly own subsidiary of russian intelligence and they have no problem releasing things in timed releases that benefit only two entities, donald trump and vladimir putin. there has never been a document released from russian intelligence or anybody that's opposed to julian asang. 48 hours after donald trump makes an amazing, stunning historic lie to the american public where he says that a former president of the united

states wiretapped him in the electoral campaign which we all know is not true, wikileaks comes out and releases this giant trench of documents showing how the cia would have done it and to tell you the truth, i took a look at those documents. none of that stuff is extremely well-known. not a lot of it is secret either. a lot of that stuff's been discussed in defense conferences, hacker conferences all the times. we just now know that the united states has the capability that we've always had. but wikileaks right now as far as i'm concerned, it's a question of whether the trump campaign or the trump administration will good after them for stealing 8,700 sum u.s. intelligence documents. i doubt it. don't hold your breath. >> that is i guess the crux of it. the idea of jack, russia has things it wants. it wants to undermine the u.s. and the eu. it would love to do to the cia

what was done to the kgb when the fall of the soviet union happened and they had to dis-ban and reorganize now. they'd love to do the same thing to the cia. there's an interest they have in making -- the cia has a history that is not always glowing but isn't that part of what russia wants to destabilize it? >> of course. that was the point from the beginning. if we look at all of the reasons the russians are doing what they're doing, this isn't about donald trump in the end. this was about the russians. this was about destabilizing europe and nato and the intelligence community. this was about pushing back on the state department and they've been successful. bing, bang boom. again and again and this concept of transparency with wikileaks is laughable. every time it's been used, in fact, what we've seen is a destabilization effort. what i see every time i watch this now i see donald trump like a carnival barker.

he's moving things around, saying don't look over here, don't look at that over there and that's what critically important. we need to keep our eyes open. this is about true transparency so we know what's going on in the country. guess what? maybe not. we need to watch that. that's what this is about. >> it seems that only the democrats really are paying attention to this rosa. we had adam schiff saying the following about wanting to talk to christopher steel the author of that dossier. take a listen. >> i'll certainly be requesting his testimony and if there's an issue about whether he's willing to come before the committee, i can say i am more than willing to go to him. we certainly want to get to the bottom of the details of that dossier and report. what has been substantiated what hasn't and find out just how he based those conclusions and to whatever degree he's willing to share with us any sources of his information. >> what are the chances of

getting christopher steel to testify do you think? >> no idea. not impossible. the interesting thing about christopher steel he's a former british intelligence operative. he started kbielg that dossier for purely financial reasons. his firm was hired to do opposition research by another republican against donald trump. but what's interesting is that he did at a certain point what he found as he did the research disturbed him so much that he handed over the information to the fbi. so that does suggest that he's somebody who like obviously he's trying to make money on his former intelligence connections, does have some concept of this is not just about campaigns, this is also about geopolitics and the world. i don't know if it's impossible. he does not want to get sucked in. it could happen. >> very quickly before we go, the fbi is trumping investigative when that comment

was asked they issued a very interesting no comment. meanwhile somebody who is commenting roger stone has admitted to having conversations with. should conditioning if republicans subpoena roger stone, subpoena paul manafort, subpoena carter page, start subpoenaing some of these people who have all of these russia connections around donald trump? >> absolutely. and we're talking about the period of time from when the election campaign started to where the election ended here and roger stone says that he had contact with guch cha 2.0. he was not just this neb lus hacker entity. he was an operative of the russian intelligence, russian military intelligence. he was probably a team of operatives inside an information warfare management center who were described to go out and

look like this neb lus hacker. what other coordination did he have. stone seemed to have a lot of information ahead of time. >> he did. >> he got it from wikileaks and wherever else. everyone needs to be subpoenaed this is the national security of the united states as stake here. this is not partisan at all. and anyone is that doesn't want to protect this nation we need to call him out on it. >> i wish we had a working congress. thank you. and coming up, paul ryan plays powerpoint. oh, boy. stay with us. to do the best

for your pet, you should know more about the food you choose. with beyond, you have a natural pet food that goes beyond telling ingredients to showing where they come from. beyond assuming the source is safe... to knowing it is. beyond asking for trust... to earning it. because, honestly, our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. ♪ don't just eat. ♪ mangia!

bertolli. whattwo servings of veggies? v8 or a powdered drink? ready, go. ahhhhhhhh! shake! shake! shake! shake! shake! done! you gotta shake it! i shake it! glad i had a v8.

the original way to fuel your day. so with our ally cashback credit card, you get rewarded for buying stuff. like what? like a second bee helmet with protective netting. or like a balm? you know? or a cooling ointment for the skin. how about a motorcycle? or some bee repellant. i'm just spit-balling here. nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. told you not to swat 'em. and now a moment of boris. riders over at the smoking gun found and publiced this picture of white house aide boris ep sheen. it is a mug shot from a january 2014 arrest in arizona. the report says boris who police described as a large white male

pled guilty to a misdemeanor assault charge for hitting a fellow nightclub patron who was much smaller than he. we reached out to the white house for comment and have not yet heard back. we'll keep you posted. if you like the aca you'll problem the ahca or as i like to call it, try and care. stay with us. ooohh!! aaaahh!! uh! hooooly mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. it's truck month. get 0% financing for 60 months plus find your tag and get $5500 on select chevy silverado pick-ups when you finance with gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer.

obamacare was an overcomplicated bill that served the special interest and not the american people. these over 974 pages that were passed and then we were told we had to read them, our plan in far fewer pages, 123, a lot smaller, so far we're at 57 for the repeal plan and 66 pages for the replacement portion. >> it's shorter, it's better. welcome back to "a.m. joy." here's what we know about the

affordable care act, aka or trump-ryan care or try and care. it's good for the trees. here's what we don't know. how much it will cost? still waiting on that cbo score and more importantly how many americans will lose their health insurance because of it and with it their ability to pay for medical care. joining me now are our panel. thank you all for being here. you and i have been on tv debating like things about health care for many years and we've never been on the same side of how you do it. you had a very interesting piece critiquing the approach the republicans have taken to repealing and replacing obamacare. if you could summarize it for us. >> the basic problem with the paul ryan bill is this system of tax credits that they're using to replace the obamacare exchanges, the place where you

shop for private coverage and get some financial assistance. the way the paul ryan plan does it, is that tax credit is not adjusted for income. you get the same assistance if you're just above the poverty line or middle class or upper middle class. lower end people just above the poverty line they need more assistance. older people need more assistance and the way that plan is structured it's going to mean that several million people are priced out of health insurance that currently are able to get it. >> that is the crux of the point. there's some estimates and this is s&p global which is not a partisan outfit has estimated 6 to 10 million people will lose health insurance under the ahca. the brookings institute said as many as 15 million people or more because, tara, the point is republicans frame health care reform as reducing cost to the federal government is the most

important thing whereas democrats frame it getting more people health insurance is the most important thing. >> the role of government is to help people. the government is public service and sos so ironic they say all the time we forget who we work for, well part of working for the people is providing this service to them. you call it try and care, i call it the unaffordable care act because it is unaffordable, in addition to what the he pointed out just then, there are cost sharing subsidy that exist within the current affordable care act and those go to lower income people to help them with the out of pocket expenses. they help them with their deductibles and copays. there's so many different elements that are being taken away from people with this current bill. >> and so paul ryan, doctor, explainings the reason they want to take away what obamacare has taken to people, they bring it down to this basic premises not only of cost to the government

but of this fundamental idea that i just think paul ryan and a lot of republicans in the tea party side just don't fundamentally believe that wealthier people should subsidize insurance for poorer people. let's listen to paul ryan explain it from his very lovely pie chart. >> take a look at the this chart. the red slice here what i would call people with preexisting condition. people who have real health care problems. the blue is the rest of the people in the individual market. that's the market where people don't get health insurance at their job or they buy it their self. the whole idea of obamacare the people on the blue side pay for the people on the red side, the people who are healthy pay for the people who are sick. it's not working. >> isn't that how insurance works? i mean what insurance company would make any money if the insurance company product was to sell to sick people?

there is no insurance people that would selling willingly to sick people? didn't he just explain how insurance works? >> exactly. i'm trying to be so objective with the condemnation of this bill because basically it's what we're going to have to swallow in some shape or form. the republicans are at odds, they're all over the place by this but this by no means is going to be even close to what passes through the senate. it's just not. but even a broken clock is right twice in a day, right? so let's just say what do we like about it. we like the preexisting illness. that stayed. we like the parents being able to keep their children on their insurance. what we don't like is everything else because it's garbage. medicaid expansion is what we must fight for, we must fight to hell freezes over then we must fight on the ice because even began did i said a nation's greatness, greatness, is measured by how it treats his weakest members and medicaid

takes care of the weakest members. so last of the i checked, trump was trying to make america great so even gandhi said that greatness is measured that way. the republican establishment needs to put up or shut up put their money where their mouth is if they want to keep and make america great. >> one of the big fights here is that the tea party caucus, the house freedom caucus, they really, really, really want to cut medicaid expansion. that's one of the biggest bones of contention, one of the reasons the affordable care act didn't meet the original estimates because you had multiple states sue to get out of doing the medicaid expansion. they aren't doing that in substantial parts of the country. the other thing that you have happening is the republicans argue that they have to do this because the affordable care act is in a death spiral. they rated that false. then they explained it this way, a death spiral is a health industry term for a cycle with three components, shrinking

enrollment and rising premiums, the latest data that enrollment is increasing slightly. younger people are signing up while premiums are increasing this isn't the cost to most consumers so none of the three criteria are met. why do republicans keep claiming that obamacare is in a death spiral when it doesn't meet any of the three criteria? >> listen, i think we have to defend republicans a little bit on this there are problems with the way the obamacare exchanges have worked. in 2010 when the law was passed, the congressional budget office 201,620 million people enrolled, in fact, there were only about 11 to 12 million. >> not to interrupt you but isn't that because you had at least a dozen states sue from prevent themselves from enrolling people in the affordable care act because they didn't want to do the medicaid expansions, states like florida that probably be the highest rate of uninsured has 5 million people, that's 5 out of the 20

million just in florida. >> it's the other way around. states that don't expand medicaid in theory should have more people he enrolled in the exchanges because the eligibility for the exchanges expands if the medicaid expansion doesn't take place in that state. the real problem is that the premiums have gone up for particularly younger and healthier people. the people who are enrolled in the aca plans they're generally these lower income people who are heavily subsidized. so real -- people aren't eligible for that aren't doing as well so that needs to be fixed. >> it seems to me that fixing the problems -- i think everyone acknowledges it's not perfect. very quickly i'm going to have first tell us what would you do to fix it rather than crap it. >> the most important thing is to have a more means tested approach to the subsidies to the tax credits so that you're really delivering the financial assistance to lower income people and sick people who really need the help. that's important reform number one. and then the other important

reform is to make sure that you're doing enough to make younger and healthier people have the incentive to want to sign up because the premiums are affordable for them. >> we're actually out of time. we'll have to have you all come back. e-mail me your solutions and we'll post them on our facebook. coming up in our next hour, donald trump and his chamber of conspiracies and what wikileaks is up to. but first, salesman apprentice mike pence goes to kentucky to hawk the health care plan that his boss acquired from paul ryan. you better start saving up your pennies for the er. stay with us. (vo) maybe it was here,

when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand. and best overall brand. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double.

( ♪ ) upstate new york is a good place to pursue your dreams. at vicarious visions, i get to be creative, work with awesome people, and we get to make great games. ( ♪ ) what i like about the area, feels like everybody knows each other. and i can go to my local coffee shop and they know who i am. it's really cool. new york state is filled with bright minds like lisa's. to find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. thanks to all our wonderful viewers and tweepz who help us trend national every weekend for the past 26 weeks. join the conversation and be sure to use the #amjoy and

follow me on twitter, snapchat and instagram and up next, what does mike pence hope to accomplish with his trip to kentucky. announcer: get on your feet for the nastiest bull in the state of texas. ♪ ♪

court's in use bros, what are you guys up to? people love progressive's name your price tool so much it's hard to get their attention. that's where moves like this come in... [ grunts ] we give people options based on their budget with our name your price tool. what does an incredibly awkward between the legs dribble do? what's the matter flo? scared you can't keep up? jaime! swing a wide paint, hollow scoop on three. [ screams ] guess i have more jump than i thought. progressive's name your price tool. you don't have to be able to dunk to use it, but it helps. whew, gravity?

today salesman aentrepreneur sis mike pence is in louisville kentucky to deliver his best pitch for the replacement plan. it could be a tough sale which was one of the obamacare's biggest beneficiaries. they expanded medicaid under 2014. giving more than 400,000 low income residents health insurance. between medicaid and the state run exchange which they called kentucky. kentucky cut its uninsured rate in half under obamacare. the best improvement in the country. but many kentuckyens didn't know that connect was obamacare and so, they elected a tea party republican as governor who ran on repealing obamacare which is connect. the thing that had helped them.

surprise. that might explain while outside pence's speeches they're protesting to protect the affordable care act. thank you for being here. so that disconnect where people didn't understand that what they had with connect was, in fact, obamacare has led them to elect a governor who promised to repeal obamacare came in and blew up the state exchanges. what can you give us some anecdote a.m.s on some of your constituents who now realize what they're losing? >> we have, for instance, several community health centers here who are providing care to thousands of more people right now and they will testify to the incredible benefit in this community and now they're scared to death that those people who are getting preventive care and getting screenings and dental care will be cut off.

it's tragic what's happening because there's not much honesty going on in this debate. the governor, for instance, is talking about the meeting today about how the affordable care act has been disasterius for businesses. well it hasn't been disastrous for businesses. businesses here are doing quite well. we don't get any complaints from businesses any more about the affordable care act and they realize that when their employees have coverage and are healthier it's better for those companies. and governor bevin's never given us any evidence that it's been a disastrous for businesses. i wish the debate was more honest. i've challenged the governor to debate me and he won't do it. >> he's one of the tea party governments. let's put we can look at a live shot, i believe we have a live shot of where mike pence is going to be speaking.

there it is right there. he's going to be speaking there. i don't think -- we just lost his feed. let's take a look at some of the polling on this. back in 2015 there was a poll in kentucky that compared the popularity of the affordable care act to connect. kaiser family and as you can see found that kynect was very popular and affordable care act was not popular. let's go back and let's look at donald trump versus hillary clinton in kentucky. donald trump won that in a blowout. he won that state 63% to 33%. his margin of victory was huge and one of the things that donald trump ran on just like governor matt bevin was that he was repealing and replacing obamacare. if you look at the map of where medicaid was expanded, there were 32 states including d.c. that expanded the affordable care act. you can see right there in that rust belt.

look where ohio, pennsylvania, michigan that rust belt where donald trump is where medicaid was expanding is where people were helped by the affordable care act. now that we have you back, just a couple more numbers. npr published in march 1st people are worried about losing that medicare expansion, they're worrying about repeal. one-third of all medicaid enrollees in kentucky have it because of the affordable care act. so you're in a state that benefited more than any other state in a region that benefited the most. >> absolutely and there's been a study done that if we repeal the affordable care act and the medicaid expansion it would mean about 370,000 kentuckyions would lose their coverage. about 40,000 jobs would be lost and it would kill $30 billion worth of economic activity over the next five years.

so that's an indication of the magnitude of benefit for the affordable care act in kentucky and you know what we're seeing is primarily an ideological battle on behalf of republicans they just don't believe in government involvement in health care. they believe in the sanctity of the free market. there's not one place in the world where health care is left up to the free market. it just doesn't work. >> there isn't. there is no system on earth where there's a pure free market system that works. i want to play a little bit of msnbc package we did back in december. this is a kentucky doctor speaking about her concerns regarding repealing and replacing obamacare. >> i'm concerned that our patients will go back to the way it was before, where they couldn't afford their medications, they couldn't get their preventive care, they couldn't get the care they needed. >> why do you suppose paul ryan,

donald trump and mike pence don't care about that? >> again, i've dealt with paul and talked to him about health care on a number of occasions over the years primarily on the budget committee and this is that position that free market works best, that competition solves every problem and that the government shouldn't be involved. they call it the heavy hand of government. but the reality is, we already are in a single payer system with the exception of a very small sliver of the population which are those on the individual insurance market who makes too much to get subsidies. everybody's insurance is subsidize by the government. they get tax deductions for. we're already in the system of single payer, it's just organized very inefficiently. >> absolutely, including you guys that work in congress. so that's why paul ryan's getting his insurance.

thank you so much for being here. donald trump's got his tin foil hat on again and his businesses have got a brand new friend, china. more "a.m. joy" after the break. it's beautiful. was it a hard place to get to? (laughs) it wasn't too bad. with the chase mobile app, jimmy chin can master depositing his hard earned checks in a snap. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master.

so we know how to cover almost alanything.ything, even a "truck-cicle."

[second man] how you doing? [ice cracking] [second man] ah,ah, ah. oh no! [first man] saves us some drilling. [burke] and we covered it, february fourteenth, twenty-fifteen. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ termites. we're on the move. hey rick, all good? oh ya, we're good! we're good. terminix. defenders of home. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next.

find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. >> i don't like the name birtha because i think it's very unfair and derogatory to a lot of good people that happen to think that there's a possibility that this man was not born in this country and, by the way, if that were true, it's very interesting. if that were true it would be the greatest scam in the history of this country, so i feel that there is certainly a chance that he was not born in this country. now if he were not born in this country, that means he can't be president. it's very simple. >> five years ago donald trump launched a campaign to question the legitimacy of president obama's birth certificate claiming that the president was born a kennion born man named

barry soweto. just saying. donald trump perpetuated the birther movement for years in his relentless attempt to undermine the country's first black president paid off. mother jones support among likely gop voters nearly doubled once he started talking about the birth certificate. it shouldn't surprise any of us that trump would fuel conspiracy theories as a candidate. >> how ted cruz had a role in the assassination of john f. kennedy. that's not true. or that thousands of muslims celebrated the destruction of the 9/11. never happened. idea he continued to flog even after they were exonerated by dna evidence. even inside the white house tin foil donald trump continued claiming the election he won was rigged against him and that millions of people voted

illegally which is the only reason he lost the popular vote. the latest trump conspiracy theory which you might call the breitbart blue plate special. this one pushed by the president of the united states is that the former president wiretapped trump tower during the campaign. a week after that tweet which could be cleared koozs the former president united states president cannot do unilaterally and without a warrant, wiretap trump tower. the white house has yet to offer one shred of evidence of the wiretap claim. thank you all for being here. let's talk about the people who were around donald trump who fuel his already sort of theory

for conspiracy. >> this is the most disturbing thing. >> quick list of them. around him or steve bannon, steven miller, michael anton, in terms of who he listens to alex joe of info wars, sean hannity and breitbart. should we be disturbed that donald trump listens to? >> this is probably the most disturbing thing. there are real conspiracies in the world. donald trump doesn't have the ability to distinguish the real ones from the fake ones. the fact that he listens to alex jones. he's from the deepest darker -- sandy hook was false flagged. the fact that donald trump called him up the week after the election to thank him for his support. this is scary stuff. the fact that you have guys like gateway pun be dent and bright

bat that have white house president credentials. people ought to go back and read the 1964 essay about the paranoid style in american politics because it predicts exactly what's going on here and in order to understand donald trump's mind you have to understand his paranoid mind set and the fact that he is -- he has no immune system to these bizarre conspiracy theories and that auto alarm even his strongest supporters. >> you're using that term he has no immune system to it because we have a situation where it is a president we're not sure he takes all of his intelligence briefings but we know he's being served by steven bannon a steady diet of headlines in his morning packet from places like news max. his good friend. we know he's a consumer of world net data which is the birther conspiracy started. the national inquire is also a

friend. he granted white house access to harvey leaven of tmz. that is who the president of the united states is turning to and accessing for information and he doesn't trust the intelligence community to give him information about the world. >> joy, when it comes to the intelligence community whether it's law enforcement or the actual ic, the goal when they present the information to the president is to do so objectively, not to push the president to go down one route for a policy. that is objective analyzed intelligence. you take raw stuff and say this is what it's telling us. you mr. president make the decision. if you're relying on tmz or bright bat. those are things that have a very clear vent. that's not -- i can't even believe i'm saying this, that's not objective analyze. that's not how any president should be making this. you should trust the people who have taken an oath to present

you unbiassed information. you're missing a massive part if you're not doing that. >> one of the other things that disturbs me, even if they are republicans who are generally want to be supportive of donald trump, is that you have breitbart.com which is not a news organization, to fight hollywood and what he saw as conspiracies against conservatives imbedded deeply in the administration. not just steve bannon who used to run the place but people like sebastian even though -- i don't believe he's ever being able to read the qur'an. breitbart is more imbedded in the white house than the cia or nsa. >> which is crazy. breitbart was a punchline in the conservative media. it was not taken seriously. they thought it was a joke.

they are imbedded in the white house and trump is getting his stuff from the deepest corners of the alt-right media so he's taken these typed up -- when he accused obama of wiretapping it was breitbart who typed up the right wing radio rant. i just have to say conspiracy theory, we might be too kind. conspiracy theory to me is someone who's in over their head, went down a rabbit hole, to me, you know, trump is just this pathological liar and he's shown himself to be that all the time and for the press the challenge is you have to say that. journalism is saying what's in front of you every day and what we see every day is a liar. massive tin securities who is adopted his own reality and that has to be how he's portrayed. >> for the media is the media chases these rabbits down these rabbit holes. donald trump tweets something

but because he's president can turn that not only into policy but into news coverage and send report rds chasing after whether or not barack obama managed to wiretap trump tower? >> that's exactly what he's doing and what's so dangerous about it, he's mainstreaming many of these conspiracy theories and i think people who are -- people who follow the media, people who read more certify vashsly, no one could possibly believe this. i cannot tell you the number of times democrats ask me if some of these things had merit. so people need to understand that even if you're a democrat, if you're not someone who is always in touch with what's going on, you're working a lot, you could be susceptible hearing the repetition of needs conspiracy theories and the prevalence of them, you could be susceptible to believing them. that's dangerous for left leaning voters. i think people should take this

more seriously than they really are. the other thing i would say about this is, trump on the one hand i do think does he is spouse to some of these theories because he has a huge ego. he wants to believe things that stroke that ego. i think he is susceptible and being manipulated by people in his administration. i've worked in administrations and there are those people around you who will read your weaknesses if you're a governor or president, they'll read your weaknesses, certain staffers who have their own agenda and they will take those weaknesses and reinforce and exploit those weaknesses to advance their agenda. i believe that's happening to donald trump. >> i want to go to you on this naveed. you have both this inside and outside the administration. they are using them to advance breitbart's ajane d. you have outside interest like russia who can read them too. have a secret weird meeting with julian assange who left and

right have once considered him to be some sort of fighter for freedom and transparency. but they too could read donald trump's weaknesses and use them? >> absolutely. joy, this is one of the things that bothers me so much about the administration. there is this -- they don't admit to anything unless they're actually expose and the facts are presented to them. one of the biggest things that concerns me, something as simple as foreign contact, you go back to sessions for example. perhaps the meeting with the ambassador was innocuous but the failure to disclose it, flynn, the failure to dloez, these are things that these people should know better and the fact that they are not disclosing it up front to me that is perhaps a clear indication when you hide those things when you make a concerted effort to not disclose that, it's very -- could be something that's perfectible.

failure to disclose foreign contact that's -- >> charlie, why aren't people on the right more concerned that somebody like sebastian -- it's not even clear he's been able to get a top security clearance. i think he's had some weird interesting legal issues or that somebody like alex jones has the ear of the president of the united states? where is the outcry on the right? >> there ought to be outcry on the right and this is part of the problem of creating these alternative reality silos. these are the postcards from the fringe. this is who the president is listening to and the reality is, is that somebody made the point a few minutes ago. we all move on. we all move on but a lot of these falsehoods, hoaxes, these conspiracy theories are believed by people out there in the base. i was shocked to find out the number of people who believed,

the birther theories after they had been exposed year after year after year. so there's two forms of damage. number one, is of course the president is listening to these people. he puts these false stories out which people believe and at a certain point i think that we have a lot of americans that no longer actually care whether or not the information is true or not. that what we have is an attack on the whole concept of is truth knowable. you have your conspiracy theories, we have our conspiracy theories. so the damaged to the culture is going to be very deep and possibly long lasting. >> i suspect that you probably agree with that. >> absolutely. there is this disconnect in terms of what's the conversation where our facts. senator patrick moin han, you don't get to have your own facts. we are so far behind that now, people absolutely do have their own facts. it leads the mainstream media in the middle. how are they going to deal with

this? d.c. press used to deal with how are we going to deal with administration and pushback. they have to deal with this tidal wave of fake news in a concerted effort. >> i can tell you one way that we shouldn't be dealing with it giggling and laughing when the spokesman for the president of the united states stands up and says, donald trump didn't believe the jobs numbers before they were fake before but now that we're here they're real. that isn't funny. i think we have a situation where the media wants to be amused by donald trump still after all this time once to take him seriously, wants to be moosed by him. that isn't funny. that lie about little things, big things, job numbers. we need to get ourselves into our posture where we're not giggling about it any more. coming up, donald trump talks china. that's next. es. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief

in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. ♪ dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia

bring you more ways to helps reduce calories from sugar. with more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all, smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and signs reminding everyone to think balance before choosing their beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet, and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. smaller portions. less sugar. balanceus.org.

i love to see businesses that just started from ground up grow into further success. it just feels good to know that i'm helping someone else. my first goal is to learn about their business, what they're currently doing in their advertising. pull some research, create a great story. trying to figure out some way of building some kind of trust in a very quick moment. you have to love to work with people. our goal, without a doubt, is that all customers are satisfied before they leave. ♪

>> i have nothing against china, i just hate that they're leaders are so much smarter than our leaders. 2016 we will not be the world leader. >> where are the shirts made? bangladesh. >> we employee people in bangladesh. >> where are the ties made? >> they are great ties. >> the ties are made in china. >> the ties are made in china. >> years ago, the great david letterman called out his then frequent guest donald trump for both blasting and profiting from china. sending those mixed messages is nothing new for trump. he routinely blamed china for the loss of u.s. jobs and more recently has barbed beijing for its failure to rain in north korea and yet the

profiting continues. this week china gave preliminary approved for 38 new trump trade marks potentially allowing trump to develop businesses in china. some of those potential businesses include hotels, massage parlors and escort services. critics say this is a violation of the clause that allows the president from taking money from foreign countries. massage parlors in the name of the president of the united states. let's go through a few of the other list of trade marks that donald trump wants to get branded. we got branded spas. massage parlors. golf clubs, hotels, finance and real estate companies, retail shops and escort services. what's wrong with that other than the appearance? >> well, the big thing is that anybody in business knows that a trademark is something of enormous value and you're able

to claim, i have this thing of enormous value. under the emoluments clause you're not allowed to take things of value from foreign nations. we're looking at it. there's no debate and there's no issue here. trump is in violation of this clause as soon as those trade marks are approved and so we've gone into a new world in this country where -- where the president of the united states can violate the constitution and his own party stands there going, who cares about the constitution? >> i'm sure they'll be lots of congressional investigations on this. they're just getting ready. >> because the point too is that when these trade marks were approved, david, people observers who longtime observers of the way the chinese government does business, they've never seen trade marks

approved so quickly. to zero in on one of them, there's a potential hotel projects in beijing where trump's financial disclosure list lists something called the trump/china development and the bank of china, meanwhile, is a tenant in trump tower. they have a lease set to expire in 2019. of course there's a 2008 office building project with chinese developer ever ground group. there's lots of business being done here. >> we could spend a whole hour on trump's china connections. there's a lot of focus but in the business end there's a lot going on with china. we did a few days ago did a story about a chinese american woman named angela chen, she has a business. her business is basically u.s. companies hire her to fix deals and win influence for them in beijing and she just bought for

over $15 million a penthouse apartment in trump's properties in new york city. now the trump company does not do a lot of vetting. this appears to have been a cash deal. we don't really know because she won't tell us if that was her own cash but it just shows you whether this was a bad deal or not, that there are lots of ways for chinese government as there are for governments around the world to win influence and curry favor with donald trump including buying his properties or giving him great trademark deals that will lead to businesses in china. >> and this comes at a very serious times. we just had the impeachment of the south korean president who was just impeached and removed from office and china is very much involved in that. they are -- there's right now a lot of tension because china has objected to the arrival of what's called thaed. it's a missile system that would protect south korea from

aggression from north korea but what the china is also aimed at checking them. we're in an active situation where there's tension on the north korea peninsula and donald trump is in business with the chinese government. how can that stand? >> again, in a real world it wouldn't. you have a situation with north korea where there is the expanding missile capability. you have the problems in south korea. you have the issues of the connections with trump and his blunder with taiwan. you have these trademarks in china and these accusations about currency manipulation when the direction of the currency 12 months ago people were talking about it. the currency has moved in the other direction since then. where are we? what are we doing? the note -- since nobody knows and this is very important, trump said he's separating

himself from his company. but we also know that trump is a liar. and so we have had no indication as to what separation has taken place, if a separation has taken place, if he's getting money from these people directly or not. and that we don't know, also means that china doesn't know, north korea doesn't know, south korea doesn't know and there are going to be acting as if the president can get financial benefit from them. everybody is going to be throwing up what in the world is their actual relationship and how should they act as a result. >> what we do know is he still owns these companies whether he's managing them, in on the deals or not. he sees where his son and daughter are doing business so he knows that he's getting money from a chinese/american businesswoman connected to the chinese government. he knows about deals about the

china project. he knows that for years he tried to do business with in russia and he still has a connection to that company. so when we get to the details of whether he's separated himself in not taken phone calls on this. as long as he has an ownership interest in his kids, there's so much potential for influence peddling and the accept answer of what seem to be bribes. >> for the viewers out there who may wonder, you have to ask yourself if the incoming new government in south korea, which is sped this missile system over to them, if china is putting pressure to have that missile system taking away which would also protect our troops, if china wants that missile system gone, do you think that donald trump would side against china if he's got these business

interests hanging in the balance, whether or not he can build a new trump tower in beijing? if china says maybe you can't build the tower if you don't take our side on this, what do you think donald trump is going to do? that is the reason this stuff is important. appreciate it. >> sure thing. >> up next, donald trump says he has tremendous respect for women. we have the receipts. more "a.m. joy" after the break. this is the silverado special edition. this is one gorgeous truck. oh, did i say there's only one special edition?

because, actually there's five. ooohh!! aaaahh!! uh! hooooly mackerel. wow. nice. strength and style. it's truck month. get 0% financing for 60 months plus find your tag and get $5500 on select chevy silverado pick-ups when you finance with gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. my psoriatic arthritis caused joint pain. just like my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and i was worried about joint damage. my doctor said joint pain from ra... can be a sign of existing joint damage... that could only get worse. he prescribed enbrel to help relieve pain and help stop further damage.

enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for... heart failure, or if you have persistent... fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. joint pain and damage... can go side by side. ask how enbrel can help relieve joint pain and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic.

more "doing chores for dad" per roll more "earning something you love" per roll bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty, the quicker picker upper >> donald trump is someone who is not fully understood for how compassionate. >> i moved on her -- >> what a great boss he is to women -- >> it's certainly an inconvenience for a business. >> he's been promoting and elevating women in the trump corporation. >> you can see there was blood coming out of their eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> such a nasty woman.

>> it's just a very natural afeint for him. >> everyone's getting dressed and ready and no men are anywhere and i'm allowed to go in because i'm the owner of the path enterand therefore i'm inspecting it. >> at some point in your life you ought to have a boss who treated me the way that the president of the united states treated me today. >> when you're a star they let you do it, they can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> with comments from spokes people like kellyanne conway and tweets like this about donald's tremendous respect for women, we can't help but get the feeling that the trump camp is trying to rewrite an extensive history one that includes that access hollywood tape and trump saying that women should be punished for abortions, saying in an on the record interview, you have to treat a word that i can't sat but that rhymes with fitbit. the list goes on and on and own.

guess how many of 436 current executives branch appointees are women. 27%. and he strongly prefers that they all quote, dress like women at least according to one former campaign staffer. in barack obama's women held 43% of the appointed roles. as of 2012, but those trends go beyond trump. his previous statements and his hiring practices. some of the men he's chosen to work with haven't exactly always shown tremendous respect for women either. >> stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. >> can you turn her microphone off please? >> turn her microphone off so i can talk. >> if you can't handle some of the basic stuff that's become a problem you don't belong in the workforce. maybe teach kindergarten. >> ivanka is a strong powerful woman. she wouldn't allowed herself to be objected -- >> chaos in this country is not

something we want to create. >> there's chaos on this set. you're obviously a little chaos tic over this -- >> no, no. up next. spy games. wikileaks versus the cia. stay with us.

>> it is impossible to keep effective control of cyber weapons, so what does that mean? it means that if you build them, eventually you will lose them. they are just information. there's no barrier from them spreading across the world. they must be used on the inset. >> julian assange founder of wikileaks and the man accused of helping russia hack spoke from his hiding place in london on thursday. he's hold up there to escape

rape charges. later that day, trump friend and brexit leader, nigel f ar parks ge, asked him what he was doing there? he said he couldn't remember. then asked if he was visiting assange, i never discuss where i go or who i see. unquote joining me now former clinton campaign joel ben ison, start with you malcolm. cia has issued this statement about these documents that was released by wikileaks. we have no comment on the authenticity. targeting individuals here at home including our fellow americans and cia does not do so.

the american public shubl deeply troubled. so the truth of that statement from your point of view, malcolm is the cia in the general routine business of using our cell phones and tvs to spy on americans? >> no. they're not. absolutely not. and neither is the national security agency and believe me, i know both these agencies. they just don't do it. it is a legal land mine and there is not a warrant available on america citizen as a target, you are hammered. even with inadvertent exposure. we don't play games with american citizens. on the other hand, if you are a counter terrorism target, a counterintelligence target where we think you work for a foreign power and they get a warrant on you, then the entire process will come down on your head. the key thing here is that everything that's done in the intelligence community comes down to a human being.

we don't have time for the american public and wikileaks is trying to stoke this paranoia and the fun part about it is, on behalf of russian intelligence. why should we believe a thing that this guys says? it steals documents and exposes them and he just benefited isis and al qaeda and everybody else who we could have been collecting against. >> you and i talked about this offline. there is this thing where wikileaks managed to make themselves heroic, but also for the longest time on the left and sort of made themselves heros of transparency. talk about julian assange, is he even a liberal and is he an advocate of transparency or is an anarchist? >> to piggy back on what malcolm said, of course we don't capture intelligence on u.s. persons, look, joy, these things have real impact.

when you have these tools, when the cia or nsa has these tools they're out there to collect legitimate documents. that means that someone whether it's isis or al qaeda can deflect and build defenses against that. the united states we see that they use these tools so we know it was the united states. when you talk about assange and what he just did, what he is done is essentially made those tools obsolete overnight and what that means now is that when you have raids in yemen to sends seals in to collect information in yemen. you now have to send human beings to put themselves at risk and other people at risk. this is perhaps one of the worst things someone can do. to glorify him and snowden, you can't look at that and say and do that in full honesty and say that this is a benefit to the america and to world safety.

there's no other way to put it. >> what he took ironically enough wount up mostly benefiting russia and china. you now have wikileaks to help bring down the campaign that you were just involved in. now going around as if it is some sort of hero for exposing the cia and offering to work with tech companies. what american tech company would be crazy enough to then form some sort of compact with wikileaks to do business with them to protect themselves when they just did a watergate on american election on be half of a foreign power. >> i think the danger here is the other panelists describe. julian assange is not a good guy. he's not a good player. he has been in bed with the russians. we know that. we believe that the russians interfered with this election. it isn't the clinton campaign saying that.

17 agency said that. that should be of concern to every america. it should be a concern when he's meeting like nigel fa raj. these are our allies around the world. what he's doing is taking the set of tools that every intelligence agency, i'm not a cyber expert is they all study what other players are doing, what tools are they developing because you want to make sure you don't want to fall behind. he publishes them out there and the consequence for that for every democratic country are grave. i think we're playing with fire here by encouraging this stuff in the name of full disclosure. intelligence agencies shouldn't be covered under full disclosure. they have to work in secret. that's what protects us. >> of course, because the cia has a history that is in some ways dark, that americans mistrust them, the idea now that they're being undermined, if the

cia, the american cia or the russians that we should be choosing the russians is insane. speaking of what joel just said, malcolm, you do already have in bed with wikileaks. you do have both wikileaks and breitbart in europe trying actively right now to impact elections and they don't want to impact them toward the more western candidates, they want to direct them toward the trump cloenz? >> i think it's fascinating that nigel met with julian assange. you know he did. he doesn't go dropping in for tea. he was there meeting with him and the question is what kind of coordination is faraje doing now. he is now messenger boy for donald trump? is he going to coordinate

wikileaks exposure of western ally democracies? one thing i can say about this and i'm sure mr. farrage, gchq which is britain's version of nsa is not allowed to go after british citizens the way american citizens are but every other intelligence agency in the world is going to put nigel under their microscope because he is now according with an entity that has declarified or stolen intelligence documents around the world. if he's talking to wikileaks and think he's going to help to engineer the fall of the germany election or french election or hasten the demise of england in the brexit, well, you know that's going to come out soon too. >> why naveed, is julian assange not in jail? why is he still free? >> that's the reality and when we talk about conspiracy and we talk about journalism and fake

news, one of the things that drives me nuts and drives a lot of investigators nuts too, this journalistic protection that we give to free press. he's not a journalist. he's not a blogger. that's why he's free and out and not prosecuted. >> acting in the guise of a journalist but he's clearly acting to work to destabilize governments and getting away with it now. we'll have you guys all back. the aclu is training folks for the resistance and top chef is there. don't go anywhere.

are your allergies holding you back or is it your allergy pills? break through your allergies. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. ♪

. make sure to tune in to "a.m. joy" tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. we'll be discussing the republicans repeal and replace and donald trump's muslim ban take two. how both effect the lives of everyday americans? we'll be join by jerry springer

and aodhan. up next we'll be speaking with top chef host live from miami. more "a.m. joy" coming up. whether it's bringing cutting-edge wifi to 35,000 fans...

or keeping a hotel's guests connected. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

this is much bigger than donald trump. although i think the election of donald trump has given voice to a lot of racism. and misogyny and just given a boldness to a certain kind of hadeerate and violence and hu humiliation. >> she's the top chef on bravo, which is owned by nbc universal. she's also an activist. she joined a million protesters in washington, d.c. after the inauguration. today she'll participate in a resistance training event in miami sponsored by the aclu. she joins me now from miami.

thank you so much for being here, great to talk to you. so tell -- >> nice to be here. >> tell me a little bit about this resistance training today in miami. >> i think, you know, for many of us, we marched and we've tweeted or we've facebooked or talked to her friends. and we want to do something, but we really don't know how. you mentioned the march, that was the very first time i personally have protested about anything publicly. i'm not really a political person. i guess i am now. but historically i really haven't been. and so i think this is a great thing. what the aclu is doing is actually doing a live stream, you can go on the website today at 4:30 p.m. and they're having training so they can teach all of us how to protest what our rights are, how to organize. they're launching this grass roots program called people power. because i think a lot of us feel powerless or feel what can we do?

and i think the aclu is going to help us figure that out. >> do you think that that powerlessness -- i do hear a lot of people say what are we supposed to do? is it number one, because people are not connecting actual voting and the political process to self-empowerment or because they're looking for something beyond that? are people connecting those two things together, that all of this is leading somewhere, meaning to an election? >> i mean, look, i'm going to speak for myself here. it's easy to feel powerless when you see lawmakers just lay down and roll over. a lot of the issues that i have now become very vocal and galvanized about are really to my mind, not partisan issues. they are just issues of human decency. and it's easy to feel powerless when you see paul ryan and, you know, all of these other lawmakers just decide that they're going to look the other way. you know, i was watching you a

little bit ago waiting to come on here and you know, you talked about how in kentucky people didn't make the connection that, you know, connect is actually obamacare. now they're going to pay the consequences about that. i think people feel powerless because they weren't informed and they're finding out all this stuff and they want to do something about it. our lawmakers, those who we elected to protect us from this kind of stripping of rights left and right, every day in washington, you know, are not doing their job. are not doing their job because they've gotten contributions from the cabinet members who have been elected or they want to make sure they get elected so they need trump. all the people that are now on board trying to lobby for him were the very ones who were really critical of him when they were running against him. now that they need him, it just seems like the level of hypocrisy is quite olympian.

>> what worries you the most about what trump and his supporters in washington are doing? >> i don't know, joy, where do i start? i mean, let's see, you know, my right to choose defend planted parenthood i founded an endometriosis foundation of america. for many people who can't afford surgery, birth control is a way to treat the systems. now they won't have access to that. the environment, we have a guy at the head of the epa who doesn't believe there is problem at all. when decades and decades of research for all countries around the world say quite the opposite. you know, i mean, anything. obamacare and that's a big one. take any issue you want to take. and anything that touches the daily life of most americans. there's an emergency going on

and i don't know what it's going to take for people to say you know what? enough is enough. that's it. >> you're associated in a lot of american's minds with a show that talked about food and how we feed ourselves. when we have an attack, particularly on a certain class of immigrants who are associated with picking and gathering our food, what does that say about america? >> you know, i think -- i just got through doing a five city book tour in india, of course what everyone wanted to ask me about was what was going on here in america. and i think, you know, regardless of whatever crimes or felonies that americans or the american government or policy may be, you know, guilty of doing abroad, america still has -- had a lot of good will because you know, there was always this example of being a hopeful, tolerant place. america was this shining beacon

of, you know, anybody could come here, it didn't matter what your last name was, it didn't matter which station of life you arrived here with. if you wanted to work hard, you could foster a life for yourself and for your family. and that idealism, that american dream -- because that's what the american dream is to most people. i think that's what's the saddest thing internationally. >> yeah. absolutely. well, thank you so much for being here, appreciate what you're doing. we will hopefully check back in with you with the training in miami, appreciate your time today thank you. that's our show for today we'll be back tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. don't miss rachel maddow with my friend, the reverend al sharpton. there is so much msnbc next. when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum -tum -tum -tum

smoothies! only from tums

well this here's a load-bearing wall. we'll go ahead and rip that out. (husband)yeah? it's going to cause a lot of problems. totally unnecessary and it triples the budget. (husband)mmmm. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double. breaking news this hour, at msnbc world