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high noon in the east, here's what's happening, the breaking news we're following, an intruder reportedly breaching the white house grounds late last night. we're just getting that into msnbc. this while the president was in residence. i want to bring in nbc's kelly o'donnell who is at the white house. what do we know? >> reporter: well, we've been in touch with united states secret service and we are expecting still a more clear statement about what happened from officials. but you outlined it. friday night, before midnight, there was an intruder who breached the perimeter here at the white house on the south side. we're coming to you from the north side. and that intruder was apprehended. officials say there were no known weapons or areas of concern on that person. and that the suspect was turned over to the metropolitan police here in washington, d.c. few official details yet. but to step back and consider the implications, this would be

the first such security incident in the trump administration. matters like this have happened before. there was an incident in 2014 where someone crossed the fence here on the front side, was able to run up the entire front lawn of the white house and enter the residence and to move through the white house. that was back in 2014. after that time, we've seen significant changes here at the white house in some of the attempts to keep what are known in sort of our circles as fence jumpers from getting close. part of what you would see if you were visiting here in washington, additional barriers outside of the white house to keep passers by from getting too close. in this case, we're talking about friday night, a late at night, when most of the official staff would not be here. of course secret service has a presence 24 hours a day. based on the president's

schedule he was at home. we don't know if other members of the family or other geuests may have been as well. it always raises concerns about a potential risk to the president, to the residents here and just a test from secret service capabilities. never a good news story when there's a breach like this. what we're learning from officials is we don't believe there was any serious threat in terms of any weapons or anything like that. we'll need to wait for more details. when you consider the pressure on the secret service to protect the president, the first family and in this white house, it's a larger first family than for the obamas. these are real tests and real difficult. ies congress has oversite on the secret service. i've reached out to them on capitol hill, they have not been informed of the incident.

secretary john kelly is now in charge of the department of homeland security which oversees the secret service we're told he was briefed. this is one of the incidents that causes a lot of anxiety and raises questions about what changes, if any, need to be made. as far as we know, everything with the president was perfectly fine then he may not have even been aware of it at the time. we hope to be able to fill in the blanks as the day goes on. >> just for our viewers who are watching the live picture of the white house, the security at the top of the white house, which is a common sight. you're standing not too far away from there, there on the front lawn. timing wise, you gave us a great sort of ticktock on this. why are we learning this right now, a day later if you will, or hours later? >> reporter: i have that same question and that's frustrating to journalists who cover this. we can get the secret service room to process the event and go

through their own internal records and notifications and that kind of thing. we're told the breach occurred at 11:38 p.m. friday night. so it has been more than 12 hours since the incident. we have not been able to get any information out of the metropolitan police department either. they say they're deferring to the u.s. secret service. as i mentioned, there is a standard practice of the secret service would turn over to the local police department. so there's a lot we need to know about this. the good news, it seems that there was no threat that we can identify at this point. the challenge, of course, is this sort of thing shouldn't happen and will cause a lot of angst and review for the officials at the secret service. the director, joseph clancy who has been part of the secret service for many years has announced his plans to depart this role. there will be additional changes in leadership as well. >> quickly here, any notice here

on the grounds of any protocol being different, the number of personnel or security that are there? >> reporter: i don't see anything different as of this morning. i mentioned the additional fencing to try to keep passers by further away from the front. and as we're looking at that image of the white house we're talking about the back side, the south side where this occurred, richard? >> thank you so much. kelly o'donnell there. the first breach of this new presidency, an intruder, the report coming into us within the last couple hours. thank you so much. let's bring in msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh. you heard what kelly was telling us. what stood out to you? >> we're still dealing with the world's wimpiest fence. you know, this problem won't go away. now, fence jumpers aren't new to the white house. they've been there for years. but the climate changes after

novemb 9/11 and we kept the wimpy fence from the 50s. with that intrusion in with or without where the intruder made it all the way into the residence all the way inside before he was able to be stopped. a guy that can get to the south portico or close to the south portico with a back pack can get close to the south portico with a bomb. if a guy with a back pack can get there, a suicide bomber can get there. this is really a serious thing. i think congress has a faultline here as well. they'll want to jump all over the secret service. >> why hasn't the fence been changed? >> it's outrageous. to me it's totally outrageous. if we were in charge i'd have a uniformed guy standing ten feet apart until we got the fence built. we're building a fence we can't afford on the border and here we

need a fence we need, want and can afford it and we won't build it. nobody should be able to get over an inside fence at the residence at all. you have a double fence, there's many different plans. but whatever it is, when it's penetrated it's a failure. and this is good, i don't think the president was in danger because even if the guy had an explosive device the president is inside the service would be able to protect him. it's a strong structure, richard. that's the east side, right on the east side as you look at the white house when you look down. treasury building is on the right. to be able to get in there and get close to the residence with a back pack, you know, that's a tremendous breach of security. we have to put an end to this. >> absence of the fence you're talking about, is there an opportunity to change the personnel structure? live pictures on the left-hand side. this is a picture you're familiar with.

you have security personnel armed at the top of the white house and other locations. kelly o'donnell saying she hasn't seen a major change in the last 12 hours she's used to seeing because it's a common place for her to stand. >> i think what happens is over the years fence jumpers were not looked at as a total failure of security. if we go back through the years. i was stationed in washington twice, that's the treasury building there. i was a treasury agent for many years. i've been all around that area. it was not seen as a total needed change in security just for fence jumpers, after 9/11 things changed. after the the oklahoma city bombing, us bomb investigators said you've got to close pennsylvania avenue because a truck bomb will be devastating to the residence. everybody screamed about the traffic. it's the only way to stop that attack to close that. now we haven't fixed this other problem. and it's too many warnings. you know, as churchill said we

won't make the same mistakes we'll make new mistakes. we make the same mistake here over and over and over again. >> you made the note of this back pack. and i'm sorry to interrupt here, but i got to squeeze as much information out of you while you've got you. what can you fit into a back pack and understanding how far these intruders have gotten in recent past, 2014 is another incident where we had the report on it as we are today. how large of a device? of course i don't know to be over alarmist. but it is a logical question. >> you're dealing in what could be. what is reality. an intruder could have a suicide belt. 20, 30 pounds of explosives on the belt. he could have another 50 in the back pack. a man can get in there, with, you know, 50, 80 pounds of high explosives like the suicide attackers do in the middle east and fill them with ball bearings.

you can have small arms, of course, the secret service can defeat one man with small arms. but an intruder getting in the other side is biological weapons or chemical weapons. then you can contaminate an area. i don't think the president was in danger. i don't think that's true. i think the secret service is correct about that. >> but cautionary. >> they have got to fix this. >> stand by, kelly o'donnell is still at the white house. sorry to interrupt you again. she's got a statement for us i want to bring into the conversation. kelly what do you have? >> reporter: we said a statement was imminent and we now have it. this is from the united states secret service. i'm going to read you the full statement so our audience can have all the facts here. on march 10th, 2017, at approximately 11:38 p.m. an individual scaled the outer perimeter fence by the treasury building. as our audience is watching that, that is on the left side of the white house as we see it on the screen about a block -- half block away. okay. scaled that outer fence by the

treasury building, secret service uniformed division officers arrested the individual on the south grounds without further incident. the south grounds would be sort of the lawn on the back side of the white house. a back pack carried by the individual was screened and searched as a precautionary measure the back pack was found to be free of any hazardous materials. they followed the established protocols they say, the north and south grounds of the white house complex were searched by the uniformed division of the secret service. nothing of concern was found. that would be the concern if did somebody breach the perimeter and bring something on to the grounds. we're being told from sources in the government that this person did not have any criminal history and was not a known figure to the secret service. that's important because we do find there are individual whose frequently are in the -- i don't want to overstate the time. there are individuals the secret service is aware of who have presented some concern to them

over time that has happened before. this person was not in that category. so that's the latest information that we have from government officials. i think part of what's notable about that is that they were concerned about the grounds so they followed through with that. when i say uniformed division of the secret service, when we see the president up close or the vice president, you see the agents who are in suits. that's a different division within the secret service. the uniform division wear what look to the average person like police officer uniforms and, of course, there are very highly skilled tactical officer whose are on the grounds of the white house as well. there's lots of levels of security here. and so this is something that will raise more questions, more questions will need to be answered. at this point now we have an official statement from the government telling us a bit more about what happened here last night. richard? >> kelly o'donnell with the latest, thank you for sharing that kelly. all points made very poignant

here. back to jim -- let's bring in republican chairman congressman dent. you've been following the story with us throughout the last half hour or so. your reaction to this latest piece of information coming from the secret service, as well as the other reporting coming from kelly o'donnell? >> well, thank you richard for having me on the program. yeah, i guess we're all very much disturbed and alarmed by the fact that the white house was once again breached. it appears that somebody scaled the fence over by the east wing of the white house. this is going to be a subject of investigation. i'm pleased that they apprehended the individual and it appears the individual was not a threat to the president or anyone in the white house. that said, this has happened too often. i'm sure the committee of homeland security will take this up and we'll have hearings on the latest breach. >> one of the questions that came from jim cavanaugh who you heard from, an msnbc analyst here, he said this is up to congress to fix things like --

he's specifically pointing out a fence that was put -- designed and then built about half a century ago. he's saying that is a very clear easy low piece of low hanging fruit that could be done to eliminate or mitigate problems like this. your thought? >> well, the president will be submitting to congress an appropriations request for defense and presumably for border security, homeland security. i suspect if it is in fact proven that this fence is inadequate maybe that's something they want to submit to us for immediate replacement. if that's the case that this fence is so antiquated we must make it a priority. we can't have the white house subjected to these types of breaches. if we need to build better barriers or perimeters or fences we're going to have to spend the money to do it. >> we're watching the report of an intruder getting up to a fence, right there on the south

side of the white house. and then uniformed secret service stopping him. we're going to continue the follow the latest pieces of information coming in from this particular story that's breaking at the top of the hour. we don't have many details about who that individual is. if we do get them we'll share them with you. back to you, congressman. yes, ma'am i want to move to the topic of the week, let's talk about healthcare. and the hill has a running list of where republicans are standing on the obamacare replacement bill. as has those who have been watching us know, you're pegged as unclear or uncertain, why? >> let me just say a few thingings. i believe too much of the discussion on healthcare has been about arbitrary timeline and deadlines to improve the baseline. the discussion must be centered more around the people who are going to be impacted. my primary concern is how are

the people that are part of the medicaid expansion be affected in my state. that is one big concern i have. second concern i have are for the people who are currently on the exchanges and being subsidized. the new bill provides for tax credits. advanceable and refundable. i support the tax credit approach. the question will be are they sufficiently funded in order to help individuals continue to purchase insurance compared to what they're currently receiving on the subsidies. those questions have not been answered to my satisfaction. i was going to say, finally too, on a bill like this i think there has not been enough work done to build coalitions to support an initiative like this. right now we've got various provider groups, hospitals and doctors, patient advocates who are opposed. also very conservative groups are opposed. i think there has to be a lot more work done to build support

for a bill like this. the republican governors have to be heard more than they have been up to the point. i know they have serious concerns about the medicaid issue and all the governors, particularly the republican governors particularly in expansion states like mine, pennsylvania. >> you brought the idea of tax credits here. what have your constituents been saying in terms of what they prefer? cash goes out frount and you don't get it back until many months later. >> yes, but that's why the tax credits are refundable and advanceable. we have the earned income tax cred credit. i think many on the left would acknowledge that's an effective way to get assistance to lower income working americans. i have no issue with the tax credit. you can get the money in advance i think is also beneficial. that should address the concerns that you correctly raise that a tax credit if it were not refundable would be absolutely

true. it would be difficult for many lower income working americans to take advantage of it. i believe that's addressed through the advanced and refundable credit. >> what are you -- in terms as you look forward on the coming weeks, what do you think the likelihood of this -- your concerns as well as others who are in the middle, like yourself, of those concerns being resolved before the bill hits the floor? >> well, i believe they have to be resolved or the votes won't be there to pass the bill. because they're clearly defections from the right. we know that. and again, some from the center right who have concerns. there's another issue, too, we haven't even talked about. that's the united states senate. i keep hearing from my friends over in the senate that the bill is not going to be considered as is. on an important vote like this, i think we ought to have some sense of where the senate is going to come down on this prior to launching this out of the

house. the united states senate will have a lot of say on this. i have heard from republican senators who have concerns about the medicaid expansion. the planned parenthood issue and others like that i think should be resolving prior to launching this out of the house. >> thank you so much, a busy day from the great state of pennsylvania. started at the top of the breaking news and we moved into healthcare, thank you so much shi and have a great saturday. >> great to be with you. here at msnbc, we're going to continue the follow the breaking news out of the white house. an intruder stopped on the white house grounds. we just got a statement in from the secret service. we just -- also getting fresh reporting from kelly o'donnell who is at the white house. we continue to follow the story right here on msnbc right after this. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing.

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a lot of news here on msnbc. you're watching pictures out of ocean side california. that's our other big stories. congressman darryl issa holding his first town hall meeting in california. it just got underway moments ago but a large crowd is outside. they want to get inside in what is a very, very busy and vociferous group. msnbc senior editor kyle perry is inside the town hall meeting room in ocean side, california. how is the tone there? >> reporter: well, listen it's great. the weather's fantastic, the gym is a bit grim. we'll show you the crowd here. this is an overwhelmingly dramatic crowd. representative issa has been facing protests for the last month. his constituency trying to get him out. he's the richest man in congress. so he is coming up against the very politics we've been talking

about now for so long since president trump took office. he is a president trump supporter. so many people here want to hear about the affordable care act. they want to hear about immigration. as you can hear, things are very contentious, there was a very serious back and forth about a potential investigation into president trump and his relationship to the russians. this is a very interesting district. the 49th district of california has been in the hands of representative issa for eight terms. it's starting to go the other way, richard and that's certainly something that the represent issi representative is aware of. i don't want things to end like the play hamilton. >> i'm sure he does not want that. they're holding up cards and signs, at least outside. inside as we've seen in other town halls they'll have cards that represent a yes or no i agree, i addisagree. what are you seeing on the cards and signs? >> reporter: this will clear out

in about five minutes. there is 525 people in this gymnasium. a lot of signs about the affordable care act, a lot of signs about russia and there's these cards. green cards if you agree, red cards if you disagree. this is going to be an interesting moment because they're going to try to wrap this up. these focuses waited hours and this is what we're seeing across the country as people are coming to these places and trying to hold as they would put it, their representatives accountable. >> big crowds. thank you so much. we'll check in with you later in the day. i want to turn you to kentucky, vice president mike nce wrapping up h remarks in louisville. he's trying to make the case for the gop healthce bill and one of the states that benefitted most from obamacare along the way. that's where we are. what were some of the things being said? what was the mood like when the

vice president was speaking? >> reporter: so richard, the vice president held a private listening session with about 20 local business representatives here in louisville. and then he spoke to about a crowd of 150 in this venue behind me, arguing for the need to repeal and replace obamacare here in kentucky. let's listen to what he had to say. >> and most importantly of all the top priority the president gave us, to work with members of congress and make sure that the obamacare nightmare is about to end. it's unsustainable. and medicaid here in kentucky is threatening to bankrupt this state. folks, this just can't continue. and i promise you, it won't. >> reporter: the vice president also admitted this was going to be a battle in washington. but it's also going to be a battle here in kentucky because so many people here got covered under medicare expansion.

we're talking about 1.3 million kentuckiens. in fact, after obamacare was implemented, the percentage of the state's uninsured dropped from 20% to 7%. this was a state that was touted as an obamacare victory. but then you also have the newly elected republican governor, matt bevin, who campaigned heavily against obamacare and won here in a surprising victory. a lot of disagreement here in kentucky as to what to do. and that is also reflected outside this venue right now where some protesters, some people are just, you know, protesting against mike pence's visit and demanding access to affordable healthcare. >> certainly there in kentucky, thank you very much for that. an update on our top story, breaking this hour, an intruder breaching the white house grounds. we'll have the latest and what the secret service is telling us. (vo) maybe it was here,

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welcome back. at the half hour, i want to let you know what we're watching right now. breaking news that we're reviewing at the top of the hour. the secret service now confirming we learned this hour an intrude urincider incident a white house. investigators say a person is under arrest after climbing the fence and getting on the south grounds. it happened friday night in the 11:00 p.m. hour. president trump was in the white house at that time. no hazardous materials were found during a search of the suspect's back pack. the secret service says the rest of the white house grounds were searched. it found nothing of concern. we'll stay on top of that story throughout the hour if we get more information on who the person is. vice president mike pence wrapped up remarks in kentucky in an effort to push the republicans' healthcare proposal through congress. here's what he told a group of

small business owners earlier. >> obamacare has failed the people of kentucky. it's failed the people of america. and obamacare must go. president trump truly does believe that giving states like kentucky, like indiana, like every state in the union. the resources to improve their healthcare is the american way to meet the needs of our most vulerable. >> joining us now the white house columnist at the hill. we have eliza collins, congressional reporter for usa today. we'll start with you on the breaking news we got in this hour, an intrude r on the white house grounds, caught. no danger evidently according to what the secret service is telling us. the concern is here we have another intruder, another situation at the white house, the first one for this administration. what have you been hearing? this is your beat, you've been

on the grounds many times. again, coming on the south side of the white house. >> yeah, i think one of the questions really is just how strict do we want to make security around the white house? one of the nice things about the white house to many people is that the public can get pretty close to it and that is, i thinker perceived that it is the people's house. do you, for example, expand the fence from where it is now further out as was done previously in the 1990s? those are the kind of questions i think that have to be balanced but security by its nature is always a balance. there's a freedom and there's the need for security restrictions. >> yeah, okay, thank you so much for that. since that's your beat i wanted to get your thought on that. eliza to you now, on what we've been talking about for the other part of the last past hour. and that's healthcare. and as you saw, the vice president and he was out there

talking with small business owners in kentucky. this is really -- you know, based on the complexities of that statement, you have rand paul, this is his back yard. you have state that is certainly at least by the statistics benefitted from obamacare, yet in this new scenario of the repeal and replace effort by republicans. that could change and make it worse for many kentuckians there in kentucky. so is this why the vice president is there today, to try to say it's okay? >> i think you got that exactly right. kentucky's a really interesting place because it was so successful with the affordable care act. at the same time, the constituents voted for governor matt bevin who campaigned against it. there are definitely people who are wanted it. rand paul is a handful of secret services who basically have said we're not supporting the bill in

the current form. he and senator mike lee have made a big deal this is not acceptable to them and they have a list of things in the bill they would like to happen before they can support it. by vice president mike pence going down there, aligning himself with mitch mcconnell and the governor and saying, you know, look, this is kind of -- this is going to happen. i think it's a pressure point. >> a pressure point. and niall, that resumes that if you give pressure you will listen to the pressure and it assumes that the white house, vice president, president, does have political capital to expend with leaders and members of the house and senate. a charm offensive, been ongoing for the last week or so. right, the white house having those gathering down stairs to try to get members to at least feel warmer if you will, toward the white house. does the vice president, does this president have enough political capital to spend to get this done? >> go ahead. >> sorry eliza.

i think he does to a degree. obviously president trump is marking this or presenting this as a very important part of his agenda. you raised the issue of the vice president, he, of course has very strong connections in congress having served a number of terms there himself. he's very much the point man for the administration on this process. just to pick up on something that eliza mentioned about senator paul. it's interesting to me that he's talking about the idea that he feels president trump or the white house is telegraphing they may be willing to make compromises on this, whereas speaker ryan, at least in rand paul's estimation, is presenting this more as a either you go for this bill or you get nothing kind of choice. >> eliza, react to that. as you know the proposal is going to the budget committee right now. if you had to whip the votes right now, since this is your beat in congress, if you had to whip the count, how does it look in the house and senate? >> it's not looking good.

we were talking to congressman mark meadows yesterday who is the head of the freedom caucus. he says i think paul ryan has a different count than we do. if they vote in bloc they can do it. they can lose two votes and that would require them to have a vice president come and do the tie breaking vote. if they lose three votes, it's ov over. right now they have rand paul and mark lee on the conservative in. other senators say they want medicaid. so they -- the senate is definitely in trouble. in the house, we heard earlier this hour congressman charlie dent say he's concerned the bill goes too far. right now republicans are really split. >> all eyes on the freedom caucus, i think we'll be saying that a lot in the next year and a half there in washington, d.c. eliza thank you so much. niall, you both have a good

weekend. is donald trump's travel ban more or less likely to survive a court's scrutiny? we'll have the aclu group of immigrants' rights next.

the president unveiled the second executive order limiting travel. the first met lawsuits from several states. the changes include iraq now off the list. greencard holders exempt. syrian refugees aren't singled out and all refugees from six countries are banned for 120 days. joining me now is the director of the aclu immigrants' rights. you have filed a complaint about this ban, why? >> the revised travel ban has the same problems the original one had. it's religious discrimination.

you can't single out muslims. he can't follow through on his threat without running straight into the constitution. and so that's, you know, what we're trying to present to the court. >> you have a handful of state attorneys general that also working along your side, either specifically or -- either directly or indirectly. which do you think might give the revised travel ban trouble and halt it as the original was? >> any and all of these suits have a good chance resulting in a block. exactly how it plays out, which one goes first, will depend a little bit on the luck of the draw. we have a hearing scheduled for wednesday, the day before the new ban is supposed to take effect in maryland. >> washington state is saying this is a effectively the same as the first. and therefore, they're moving forward without argument. >> right. i think they're right about that. the existing injunction should prevent the government from

following through on the threat to do the same thing with a different number on top. you know, whether -- the government, obviously, disagrees and since they seem to be looking to move forward, we need more protection. >> it's removed the line item, shall we say of religious minorities does that satisfy what folks have been critical about? >> what they've been trying to do is round off the sharpest corners, the easiest things for the courts to focus on. you know, when you just take the whole blob of what they're doing and take a look at it. but, again, the core of it is the same. the core of it is we're choosing majority muslim countries, banning people from entering from those countries and that is playing religious discrimination. >> all right. we shall see what happens because this is early on. certainly as the states attorney general move forward. thank you so much.

appreciate it. deep state. what does it mean? and why is it coming up at the white house press briefings? we have answers on that. at the top of the hour, journalist and former member of parliament louise mensch she'll talk about president trump. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ lease a 2017 lincoln mkx for $369 a month. only at your lincoln dealer.

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on friday, president trump sat down with house republicans to talk about the rollout of the american healthcare act. but when reporters started asking about his wire tap allegations against former president obama, the new commander in chief stayed mum. >> thank you all very much. we're going to get to work,

thank you. [ indiscernible talking ] >> thank you. >> let's bring in republican strategist and peter emerson, who has worked for three democratic administrations. peter, we'll start with you on this. the president, one week ago on this saturday on a saturday, brought up the question of wire tapping. terroratora trump tower. now he's mum about this. what are you reading into what has happened >> i think there is two issues that should be discussed. one is i think that obama should spend less time having lunch with bono and more time defending himself and america. that seems the only right and fair thing to do. on the other hand, while we're

talking about wire tapping and russia and general flynn, this week it was released that ivanka trump's products went up by 200%. eric trump was quoted as saying business is booming. and so what i'm reading into this is that we've got this masterful sleight of hand magician in the white house, vice president pence, steve baninaba bannon are running the government. and donald trump continues to be the global businessman he was and remains. >> react to that and tell me what you think here. the question has been put out, what is closer to the truth here that the trump campaign was wire tapped by the obama administration as the accusation is or the trump white house has colluded with russia in some form or fashion. >> that's a big question. >> all for you, noel. >> yeah, i can handle it.

one of the things is we all know that you don't have to officially approve anything for surveillance to happen. that surveillance can happen on any form regardless of, you know, it was officially promoted. whether or not obama was behind it, they're saying he's not. i don't really think that's the point in case to look at. i think the point you have to look at is how much is enough? i mean, you've got to realize that this is a huge problem. wire tapping. and people listening in on things. while it's good in some avenues to catch people who are wanting to do the united states harm. it's bad when it ierferes with campaigns and election. >> can i ask her about what she feels about the hacking of the democratic national committee by what all intelligence agencies believe were the russians? >> i can answer that.

i would think your viewers would think i was insane if i thought that was fabulous. i think it's hideous. for anyone, any entity whether it be russia, china, the republican party, to interfere with the democrats on a national election is bad. same goes with republicans. anybody is horrible to interfere with republican elections. a elections in general >> we're going to -- i appreciate both discussing this, it's something we have certainly had a lot of detail in recent months on. and weeks, rather. i want to move to some of the discomfort coming from the trump administration about the questions around wire tapping and how information has made it out into -- has been leaked basically to the press surrounding this question about connections. and the idea related to that has been the term deep state. and that deep state for those who aren't familiar with it is

the thought of a network of obama loyalists in government. and that -- those who are in government, their idea is that they're working to sabotage the president and gain traction in the trump white house somehow or are still hanging on. and here is sean spicer's idea and his thought on that. take a listen. >> the white house believe there is such a thing as the deep state that's actively working to undermine the president? >> well, i think that there's no question when you have eight years of one party in office. that there are people who stay in government -- affiliated with, you know, joined and continue to espouse the agenda of the previous administrations. >> peter, 20 seconds to you and noel, 20 seconds to you. >> perfect symbol of this week and the entire transition and now these first 50 plus days is the upside down lapel pin of the american flag that spicer had on his jacket yesterday. things are in total chaos.

there's no such thing as a deep state because you have political appointees and you have career bureaucrats. it's either a total misunderstanding or once again it's just a basically a lie. a misleading when in fact it has nothing to do with anything other than bureaucrats are wildly concerned. terribly concerned about the direction this government is not going. >> noel? >> you know, there's a lot of people, a lot of people on the republican side that actually think that obama is providing some sort of a shadow government by staying in, you know, washington, d.c. so i think you're going to find, you know, while a lot of people agree with my counterpartner you'll find a lot of people that actually think that obama is kind of creating some sort of a shadow government where he is motoring, putting pressure to make sure some of his agendas and ways are going to be upheld when it comes to republicans. >> all of these are good book titles i must say at some point.

we'll continue to discuss this. thank you for finishing off our first hour. thank you. at the top of the hour, speaking of which, an update on our top story, an intruder breaking the white house grounds. we'll have the latest.