game intonsorrsponsored by boei "meet the press "kwot facebook page. . very good sunday to you. welcome to the pulse of america, where your voice can be heard in real-time. here are the stories we want your pulse on today. >> health secretary tom price says no one will pay more under the republican obama dlts care repolice stationment. estimates do not agree with that. can republicans in the end realistically get this bill through?

>> president trump's new imgrags ban is set to take effect thursday, at least six states are taking legal action against it. will version two of the immigration ban hold up in court? >> documents released by wikileaks are showing your car, your tv and many gag jets can be used to spy on your. >> president trump creates them, but he's not alone in that. a look at the damage that conspiracy theories may be doing to democracy. so voice your opinion, grab your phone or laptop or other digital device and log on to pulse.msnbc.com/america. you can vote as many times as you like throughout today's show. first off for you though, to the uncertain fate of the new republican proposal to repeal

and replace obamacare. mike pence made his pitch in ken tucky this ek weend. he is expected to hit the road to sell the legislation soon. this as negotiations continue in washington. conservative republicans voicing their concerns about key elements in the bill this week. senator come cotton of arkansas and ron paul emerging as two of the strongest voices in opposition so far, today declaring the bill dead on arrival in the senate. >> i don't want to see the house majority put at risk on a bill that is not going to pass the senate. >> if we get what we've got from ryan, obamacare-lite, he will not have the votes. >> speaker ryan is defending against another criticism, that the bill is moving too fast through the house. >> suggesting that this is moving fast, going through four committees, going through regular order, saying we are

going to do this for seven years and now coming to the point where we're actually on the cusp of keeping our word, i hardly think that is rushing things. the point i'd say is this is historic. >> that takes us to our first pulse question of the day for you, agree or disagree: it will be difficult for republicans to repeal obamacare in its entirety. kelly o'donnell joins me now from the white house. a lot of stuff to talk about here. how is the president's roll in the negotiation shaping up so far? >> reporter: well, richard, we have seen the president use some of his personal persuasion in the last week or so with smaller meetings trying to talk to them in a more kind of lower case way, i would say. not the big rally style donald trump. we have seen mike pence go, as you mentioned, and we will see the president hitting the road himself. we expect that to come this week and health care to be one of the main topics.

so the one thing you may not see and may be a bit surprised about is how often the house speaker and president trump are talking about this issue. they have difficult political styles, but they have been working closely together, especially since the president's election and now 50 plus days in office. today paul ryan was asked just how much is donald trump involved in the republican's health care work and their attempts to overturn obamacare. >> he's been tremendously helpful. he's been extremely engaged with various members of congress. i talked to him continue substantia -- constantly. i'm excited he is committed to keeping his promise and getting this done. >> so part of what republicans like paul ryan are looking for from the white house is the president to use his ability to persuade, to sell, if you will, the marketing side of donald

trump, to try to reach especially those supporters who put republicans in power in washington to answer some of their questions to try to persuade them that the plan that's being put forward will be workable from a republican's point of view. of course, democrats see this as undoing a very important policy of president obama's and believe it will ultimately lead to many americans in the millions not having the same access to health care. richard? >> kelly o'donnell at the white house. kelly, thank you so much for that. i want to take you to some of the specifics of the american health care act. the law eliminates obamacare individual man did, instead requiring those who do not have coverage to pay a fine if they want to re-enter the market. it restructured tax credits to be based on age and income. it temporarily maintains the mecaid expansion until 2020 and it includes tax cuts for the wealthiest americans.

today we still do not know whether the plan will cover more or fewer americans or the cost itself and not all are thinking that tomorrow's estimates from the congressional budget office will help. >> in the cbo estimate, five, six, seven years ago when this started they estimated over 20 million people would have coverage. in fact, it is about half of that right now. so cbo has been very adept in not providing appropriate coverage statistics. >> tom price there with that. joining me now, democrat from california. also chair of k-pac. you heard some of the questions about this cbo estimate that's going to come out on monday, widely seen as a bipartisan evaluation of such plans. in this case this new health care act that is coming from the republicans. what is your belief in how much the cbo estimate will help this

decision-making process? >> well, voting on a health care plan without a cbo estimate hof how much it would cost is like buying a car without knowing what the price tag is. it is absolutely ridiculous to make such serious decisions based on a lack of knowledge. and, in fact, we do have 20 million people who are now covered through the affordable care act. so the cbo was actually pretty accurate on that. >> the accusation is that the cbo estimate was not right on the money compared to many of the other estimates. your response to that? >> the cbo estimate gives us a great window into what the finances are in any kind of bill. we rely on it. it is nonpartisan. it is the procedure by which most bills are decided. >> you heard some of the criticisms coming from the right. they're calling it

obamacare-lite. when you look at what some of the tenants of this particular bill are, is there anything that you think could serve as a good baseline for another bill if this bill fails? >> well, this bill clearly is not the answer. this bill would hurt so many. in fact, it is a pay more for getting less bill. and what it will do is make sure that millions will lose their coverage. and in fact there are people like rachel, my constituent, who is the sole bred winner for her family of five. she earned too much to qualify for medicaid and earned too little to actually buy wealth care. it wasn't until the aca came along that she was able to put her and her husband on a silver plan and her children on expanded medicaid. so she was able to cover them. i tell you, if this bill goes through, they will lose all of that. i think that we need to maintain

what we have. we can make improvements, of course. in fact, we should make improvements on it. but we can't risk having millions of people lose their coverage. >> what is your confidence level that this bill will be defeated? >> there is a lot of controversy on this bill. and i, of course, see many members of the republican caucus that are questioning it. i also see that there is a great deal of questioning of this and skreptism in the senate. >> a lot of folks watching this on both side because of the criticisms. i also want to get your take on another piece of legislation that just did pass. it would allow employers to impose penalties on employees who efuse to participate in genetic testing, this as a part of workplace wellness programs.

your thought? your reaction? >> this is not what the wellness programs were made for and to have such a program that would require genetic testing is not right. it's -- it goes beyond what should be done. >> chair of the apa caucus, congressman from california, thank you for your time. the gop backed legislation does keep two of obamacare's most popular conditions, people with pre-existing conditions stay protected and adults can stay on their parents' health care plan until they are 26-years-old. the medicaid will stay in effect until 2020. 32 states have expanded medicaid under the affordable care act. that expansion currently covering about 20 million people. but conservative groups who visited the whies house this week are fighting that 2020 date. they want the expansion rolled

back earlier to the end of this year to reduce costs. omb director addresses that objective. >> just because you spend less money on something doesn't mean it can't get better. in fact, the private sector does that all the time. the phone you have in front of you is cheaper than it was before. that's one of the things we're driving to drive into medicaid as part of this discussion about replacing obamacare. we are trying to make medicaid for efficient. >> joining me now the director of external affairs of the department of health and human services. you heard the conversation about cost, the objective to reduce costs overall. but you can't solely focus on that without understanding the outcomes, quality is one of the issues that were brought up. what is the best way to talk about cost reduction here? >> well, the best way to talk about cost reduction is actually talk to people who actually work in health care. and what i find crazy about this process, you can talk to ceos of

hospitals across this country, and this bill is not workable for them because they know they have to spend the dollars associated with cost. and the only way you get costs down is to improve quality and increase the frequency that people have access to good quality of care. if you are going to phase out medicate before 2020 or at 2020, you are going to create a larger population of uninsured who are still going to get sick and still come to hospitals in the emergency rooms, which is the most expensive place to deliver care. so if you want to make sure we reduce the cost in health care, you can't have people in the emergency rooms. so you have to provide coverage. more people have coverage, the more they get to see a doctor frequently and a primary care setting at lower cost rather than the emergency room. so there is a lot of challenge with this. and this bill is not taking us forward. it is actually taking us back. that's why i wish there was a more inclusive process of the leadership looking at how we can control costs in health care by actually talking to people who

work in the system now. >> you see the debate happening on the hill within the republican party, as well as from the democratic side. does that hearten you because it seems like there is healthy criticism about making sure that whatever happens in terms of this bill or another that the focus is on those who are being covered. >> that's correct. i'm at least -- there is some conversation happening. i'm happy about that. but what i continue to hear most of the times from republicans is they hate everything and they love nothing. no matter what comes out is never going to be workable or successful. you got to chart a course that people can find their way to the end. you also have to be inclusive and bring the ideas to the table and we haven't brought the ideas of people who work in health care. i have heard entrepreneurs and startup companies not supporting this, medical providers not supporting this, hospital executives and most importantly

the insurance industry hasn't come out in favor of what this proposal looks like. they haven't charted a course they have value in and people feel like they could be a part of the process. >> we have an estimate coming out on monday, up to 15 million folks may lose coverage underneath this new bill. what is your sense based on the data you have been hearing about about where this might end up? >> i think that's exactly right. the cbo has been a great nonpartisan partner in scoring legislation. now, they were on the money about 20 million people getting coverage. we have 20 million people getting coverage. any time the cbo changes an estimate it is because the bill changes. if you remember back in 2012 when the supreme court said that medicaid could be optional in states, the cbo had to adjust their estimate. so they're a good barometer for what works and what doesn't work. i'm interested to see where the cbo comes out on this. if it's what i'm hearing, that 15 million people will lose

coverage, that is clearly taking us backwards. we have to remember there is so many millions of americans struggle with the high cost of health care, accessing health care and being able to get to a doctor, getting their prescription drugs covered, being able to get coverage for conditions preventable and treatable in the early stages. but if you take away their opportunity to have coverage and their opportunity to be able to be seen by a physician, it's going to make it hard for us to move forward as a country, be better as a country and make us more safe and secure. and, so, we have really got to look at what the cbo says. i'm excited about hearing that some time this week and i want to read deeply on what they put down on paper for us to learn about. >> tom gun, just hours before we have to get those numbers. thank you for stopping by. >> thank you. >> for our first pulse question today we have been asking you agree or disagree: it will be difficult for republicans to repeal obamacare in its

entirety? first i want to show you the tug of war. 97% saying, yeah, i agree. it will be difficult. look at political parties break down. really regard lgs of party, folks saying i do believe it's going to be tough. looking at a graph of the gender break down, also somewhat in the same space. women a little bit more so, but all said, strongly agreeing with that 94% to 6% they agree it's going to be tough. all right. we'll have another question for you shortly. next, asylum seekers caught in the immigration court system. the story of a syrian man who has spent nine months behind bars. and as president trump's latest immigration ban goes up this thursday, we are asking you to your voice your opinion on our second poll question. agree or disagree: president trump's latest imbrags ban will

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and welcome back. thursday is the day. president trump's revised travel ban goes into effect. here's how version two, shall we say, is different. iraq is now removed from the list of banned countries. current visa holders are exempt, syrian refugees now face a temporary, rather than indefinite plan. and refugees already granted asylum will be allowed into the united states. already, though, there are some legal challenges. hawaii becoming the first state to sue over the revised ban. then you have washington, minnesota, oregon, new york and

massachusetts. they all plan to file a new complaint against the order. agree or disagree: president trump's latest immigration ban will not hold up in the courts go to pulse.msnbc.com/america so tell us your vote. it is leaving thousands of asylum locked up in the court system. >> reporter: this is the moment he broke down. how hard is it to look at that picture? >> too much. >> reporter: she's beautiful. >> thank you. >> reporter: the instant he saw a picture of his newborn niece for the first time. she and his sister live in california. but for the last nine months, he has been here at the stewart immigration detention center in georgia, the largest in the u.s. >> i don't know my future.

i don't know. >> reporter: after being drafted into the syrian army, he says he and several of his friends fled to the u.s., paying a smuggler to sneak them into mexico. they turned themselves into immigration centers. his friends have been sent to immigration centers, but have since been ae leareleased. by chance, he was sent to georgia and is still locked up. >> i don't see the cases as different. i think they share the same basis for asylum. >> reporter: the system has dramatic disparitiedisparities. in san francisco, 74%. nationwide, the average was 48%. >> the primary driver of asylum

grant rates is whether or not someone actually has an attorney to help them represent. >> reporter: a spokesperson wouldn't comment on individual cases but says judges undergo training to ensure unbiassed decision-making. she also said georgia has asylum grant rates because they have higher criminal rates. he remains on lock down in limbo and alone. >> thank you for that report. i want to bring in elena. to the new immigration executive order here, do you expect that the revisions will answer a lot of the legal questions that all the states have been liing in terms of their objections? >> certainly not all of that. so the new order does exempt

green cardholders, visa holders from the travel ban. but unfortunately there are many people who are going to be affected, including refugees, as well as people from now the six countries that are listed who are applying for visas the first time. that affects not only them and their families but american institutions as well. if you think about our universities, our businesses. we often rely on people coming here, being able to apply for these visas. so if those visas are halted and we lose out on amazing students and employees and business people, it is going to still affect the states that brought those initial lawsuits. >> talk about the lawsuit that's been bought about by hawaii and their attorney general. we also have five other states we expect to be making legal moves on monday. >> hawaii was the first to challenge the new muslim ban and they raised many of the same arguments, that people in their state are being affected.

their tourism is going to be affected. i think that's important for people to remember. even people who are not part of the six countries now targeted are starting to think twice about whether they want to come to this country, whether they're welcome here. so it is having a much more extennive effect. >> there has been criticism of this being a de facto muslim ban. no court has ruled in favor of that argument to date. will that move forward, that specific argument, or do you see this economic argument really being the key? >> well, i think they are very related. and, so, this is an opportunity for the courts to finally address those arguments head on. we know that under the first amendment the united states isn't in the business of establishing favoritism for one religion and we know that this was intended to be auslim ban. that's explicitly what is found in the record. so we're going to have to look at this when these court cases

go forward. >> what happens thursday when this takes effect? what happens to the gentleman gabe interviewed in his story? >> it remains to be seen. it is not supposed to affect people who are here, that it's really directed towards people outside. but we know it is having an effect in cases that there is already an unfair vetting process applied to people from these regions. so we're hoping that everyone will truly get a chance at presenting their case to be able to have just a day in court, what we think of as american justice. >> thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> all right. first of all, overall tug of war for you, and what we're looking at is 95% agree president trump's latest immigration ban will not hold up in the courts. when you look at education level, all education levels agree. and looking at a graph of the

political party break down, democrats and republicans strongly agree. independents a little less so. and the final scoreboard for you, there it is. 90% agree. 10% disagree. up next why president trump's eldest son says he basically had zero contact with his father right now. tech: at safelite, we know how busy your life can be. mom: oh no... tech: this mom didn't have time to worry about a cracked windshield. so she scheduled at safelite.com and with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" she knew exactly when i'd be there,

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>> in january the president seeded control to his eldest sons. next wikileaks claims it has uncovered the cia's secret hacking methods to supply on you. you can make your voice heard. agree or disagree: americans should be willing to give up some personal privately for national security. let us know what you think. insights for pulse of america are furnished by microsoft pulse. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand. and best overall brand. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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wsas sending out a series o tweets yesterday evening saying this, i have been critical of assange and wikileaks this week, so big sur prize, i am having multiple password reset attempts

right now. the cia and fbi are investigating that massive document dump from wikileaks, which claims to have uncovered the cia's secret hacking methods, listening in on people's smart televisions, even if they are turned off. agree or disagree,: americaning should be willing to give up some personal privacy for national security. i want to bring in former cia military analyst. we're also joined by wired magazine brian tar let. surprising about what you are hearing so far? what you are seeing in the investigation? when we look at it, some are asking how difficult will be to find out w is responsible for releing this secret information. >> it is surprising how much information was dumped in this last week. cia has not confirmed or denied

the authenticity of all the documents, but the fact is there is an investigation underway. they will be looking about whether this came from an insider, someone from inside the intelligence community, a contractor and whether or not there was any foreign involvement in this particular breach. i think you will see investigators hone in on a group of individuals or an individual. it will just take some time. these things take time to go through computers and talk to people and interview them, which is happening this week. >> do you have a thought, a hypothesis about how this happened? where do you think investigators are going to be going and the sorts of questions they will be asking here? >> it seems they will honed in on someone being on the inside that has access to this information and these documents. whether or not that was self-motivated, somebody trying to assist wikileaks or with the involvement of foreign intelligence offers, that

remains to be seen. we know wikileaks had ties to the russians in the past. it doesn't have to be with help from a foreign country. it could be somebody disgruntled within the intelligence community itself. >> and, brian, this has been now, at least the last couple of months, the age of leaks. and this as we were talking about what was leaked in this particular situation. is this tactic allegedly by the cia that we are hearing. you are out with a new article today that says the easiest way to protect your devices from hacks, keep up updated. you say this isn't a hard or complicated process. what are some of the steps that one can take if they're concerned about this approach that the cia uses and that's again accessing our personal consumer electronics? >> well, there are some good news first, which there is nothing in the documents that says the cia is targeting american citizens. these are really hard hacks to pull off. they require a lot of resources.

but the bad news is, if the cia can do it other people might do. so the most important thing you can do, as soon as companies find out about these hacks they can push out patches to their customers. those are just software updates. that comes with some security improvements as well as new features. the other thing you can do is think about the amount of devices in your home that connect to the internet. even if they are not being hacked in a way that exposes your personal information, they leave an entry point to come in. basically, just consider, do i really need this to connect to the internet? if not, maybe go ahead and turn off that wifi or buy the nonsmart version of that device. >> nonquestion fanother questio asking, should i stop using these chat programs that are out there. and the first thing that comes to mind is end to end even

kripgs. >> if anything, what the documents showed is that end to end even kripgs is secure. the cia can't break that even kripgs protocol yet. what they can do is compromise an entire device. at that point, once the cia is in your iphone or android phone, you have got bigger concerns. the cia is not targeted your iphone and if someone else were to target your iphone or android phone, you would have to be someone who is a very high value target for that to happen. those cost millions of dollars and take lots of resources to work. >> and tara, the criticism, though, will be here the groups that have a lot of money, that do have a lot of hands do this, that is the government for those who are critical of this, and they will say, well, if they can do it, they may be looking

at what i'm doing right now. >> there is nothing in any of the documents that suggest that to be the case. the real problem here is we have given our information now. this release gives information to our adversaries, to our enemies. this information that has been released can affect counter intelligence where our intelligence agents and community rely on expertise in the cyber realm in order to be able to know what's going on with criminal groups overseas. and any time a massive amount of information that is of high classification is leaked to the public, the individuals leaking it might have their own reasons for doing so, but they don't know all the far-reaching implications this has been individuals around the globe. whoever was responsible for this at the end of this investigation is going to face punishment, as they should. >> thank you so much. appreciate both of your expertises. >> thank you. >> we have been asking you, agree or disagree, americans

should be willing to give up privacy for security. over 65% disagrees with that statement. when we look at age and division, people 18 to 24 agree. those 35 and older neutral and then looking at a graft of the political party, republicans agree, democrats are fairly neutral and then the final scorecard for you here, it is 43% agree. 57% disagree that americans should be willing to give up some personal privacy for national security. next for you, the wild conspiracy theories being pushed by president trump, as well as his supporters and detractors. we will ask you to voice your opinion on that. agree or disagree: conspiracy theories threaten to undermine the foundations of democracy. go to pulse.msnbc.com/america to let us know what you think.

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show his birth certificate. and can i be honest with you? i hope he can because if he can't, if he can't, and if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility. i'm not saying it happened. i'm saying it is a real possibility, much greater than i thought two or three weeks ago, then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics. >> a conspiracy theory. it was discredited by president obama, but mr. trump continued his unfounded investigation for years. since taking office, president trump's affinity for what some say are conspiracy theories have not stopped. one week ago, president trurm accused a former president of the united states of breaking the law, unfound pd and without truth. he said president obama wiretapped trump tower during the elction. lawmakers want oof. trump remains silent this week.

instead, a call for congress to investigate. the house intelligence committee now wants the white house to present evidence by tomorrow. this morning on cnn, senator john mccain explains what is at risk. >> the president has one of two choices, either retract or to provide the information that the american people deserve. if true or the allegation is left out there, it undermines the confidence the american people have in the entire way that the government does business. >> that brings us to our fourth and final question of the day. agree or disagree: conspiracy theories threaten to undermine the foundations of democracy. here to discuss this topic. paul, when is a conspiracy theory a lie? >> well, actually, i think there

is a big difference between a simple lie and a conspiracy theory. a conspiracy theory goes way beyond lies in order to tell a story about the sorts of hidden motivations and hidden actors of people who really control the scenes. if this were just a lie, it would be easy to rebut, but the real danger with donald trump is every dame we think he's telling a lie, it becomes a conspiracy theories. conspiracy theories are becoming mainstream by the president of the united states and steadily and surely a lot of folks on the same sides of the aisle are following behind president trump and adopting con spir toir ways of explaining how politics works. >> expand on that. your book looks into the conspiracy theories here. it is now common place. it is like the fad right now. would you agree with that? >> i do. i agree conspiracy theories are

mainstream. but i don't think this is a main thing. the piece of the puzzle i focus on is psychology and one of the research suggests it is so prevalent because they resonate with the ways our minds works. we want to see patterns and meaning rather than randomness. we're biassed towards thinking big events have big explanations. so conspiracy theories tick all these boxes. >> that's on the beaver silieve. what about the psychology of those who put together these theories? >> as far as conspiracy theories in american politics, they have been seen since the beginning of america. george washington was convinced the ill lum gnatty was trying to infull trait the american

government. and the theories about slavely that james bu cannen was in a conspiracy theory. the red scare, mccarthyism. >> paul, the source of many of these theories have come from one of the high standards in fact. as reporters have gone to in the past tha past. that's the white house. does this explain this trend? >> i think it really does. i think that one of the things that is different between how i see this and how rob sees this is that even though different presidents have at times adopted occasional conspiracy mindedness, we now have a president for whom con spir torl leaf is part of his governing style. when you strip away all the different copicies he has believed, to the idea that

somehow rafael cruz was involved in the jfk assassination, there is not much there beyond a sense of grievance, a sense of aggrievance, a sense of entitlement. and donald trump has masters this style. not even richard nixon, who so brazenly and openly endorsed these kinds of ideas and that's the biggest reason why. even democrats feel the undertow of conspiracy mindedness in places they would have never done that before. >> one of the environmental factors we're looking at, rob, is polarization, closed loop communication, all of these, in part, why we're seeing conspiracy theories thrive so well. >> there is evidence that people on political extremes are more receptive to conspiracy theories. this is true of people on both ends of the spectrum that tend

to be more receptive to conspiracy theories and so polarization will make people more receptive to conspiracy theories. >> you're in d.c. we had a man firing a rifle into a d.c. pizza shop after one of these false stories about hillary clinton. do you think that we're going to s see, unfortunately, more of these theories turning into unfortunate actions? that's something we should be worried about. congressmen, pundits, people will shy away from endorsing the craziest things that they believed even in private. they didn't talk about them in public because of these sorts of dangerous actions. as this conspiracy rumor begets more and mo conspiracy rumors and lies, upon which our

democracy depends, if i lose an election to someone else i can still swear aleenlegiance to th flag. that's what's being undermined. i worry that the fundamental trust of democracy is being weakened by the trump administration. >> rob, quickly to you, is that reversible if paul is correct, this question? >> the approach that i take is if we can agree that conspiracy theories are, in part, a product of our minds, our psychology and our buy iassbiases, it's easy t people and accuse them of being biased but can't see ourselves as being biased ourselves. maybe if we can see ourselves as being biased we can have a dialogue. >> paul, rob, thank you both. great conversation. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> still time to make your voice

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. agree or disagree. conspiracy theories threaten to undermine the foundations of democracy. overall 93% of you agree with that statement. democrats, republicans and independents all agreeing there. these theories threaten to undermine foundations of democracy. also men, women agreeing. and final number for you on this is 92% agree with the statement. 8% disagree. thanks for telling us what you think all this hour on pulse of mencht i'm richard lui. more at the top of the hour,

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make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. very good sunday to you. thanks for joining us. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters in new york. republican proposal to repeal and replace obamacare passes its first test. in opposition from conservatives. will it survive the next one? speaker ryan defending against criticism that the sbil moving too fast. >> suggesting that this is moving fast, going through four committees, going through regular order, saying we are going to do this for seven years and now come to the point where we're actually on the cusp of keeping our word, i hardly think that is rushing things. the point i would say is this is historic. >> now all eyes are on the congressional budget office, set to release itself analysis of how much the new plan wi