number one, for our next show, you can find me on social media and send in your questions at #thepoint or at ari melber. and, next sunday, we have a two-hour special on the coming supreme court battle. who will take justice scalia's tie breaking seat? that's next sunday, 5:00 p.m. eastern on "the point." stay tuned. this sunday, repeal, replace and revolt. the republican health care plan. >> this is the closest we will ever get. >> supported by president trump. >> we must act now to save americans from the imploding obamacare disaster. >> but attacked on one side by conservatives. >> this is just obamacare with a different label. >> on other side, by republican moderates. >> pulling the rug out from these vulnerable populations is not really the direction we want to go. >> and on all sides by democrats. >> robin hood in reverse. >> this morning i'll talk to hhs secretary tom price who oversees

the overhaul, kathleen sebelius, the former hhs secretary who oversaw obamacare implementation, and governor john kasich of ohio who says both parties need to work together. plus the russia connection. democrats threaten to pull out of the investigation if it becomes too partisan. and when we hear statements like this -- >> '17 would be a disaster for obamacare. that's the year it was meant to explode because obama won't be here. >> are we becoming conditioned to dismiss what the president of the united states says? joining me for insight and analysis are -- david brooks, columnist for the new york times. stephanie cutter, former deputy campaign manager for president obama. rick santelli and helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for "the new york times." welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington. the longest running show in television history celebrating its 70th year, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd.

good sunday morning and congratulations for remembering to set your clocks forward an hour. who knew that health care could be so complicated? house republicans reveal their replace version of repeal and replace of obamacare to decidedly mixed reviews. president trump offered qualified support allowing that changes could still be made to the bill, but the proposal got hit on all sides by freedom caucus republicans saying the bill didn't go far enough to eliminate obamacare, to moderate republicans who say it goes too far and to democrats folding their arms and just saying no. the brookings institution predicts 15 million people will lose coverage under this republican plan. many powerful health care organizations came out against it this week and the white house is already casting doubt on the expected cost estimates to be made by the congressional budget offices. >> if you're looking to the cbo for accuracy, you're looking in the wrong place. >> those numbers should be coming out tomorrow or the next day. proponents argue that any new plan, even if not perfect would be a vast improvement under the

current obamacare system and the time to make any sweeping change is right now. >> this is the closest we will ever get to repealing and replacing obamacare. >> republicans racing the political clock to push through a health care replacement bill have a message. >> republicans unified. >> we are unified. >> we are unified. >> we are really excited about the unified vote. >> but the fight over health care is exposing divisions within the republican party. between small government conservatives, swing state moderates and a president who ran as a populist and is governing as a nationalist. this week, two key house committees approved a plan to overhaul the affordable care act, but not before conservatives rushed out to pan the bill both in the house -- >> this is just obamacare with a different label. >> it appears to be the largest welfare program ever proposed by republicans in the history of our country. >> and in the senate. >> the bill as written is not

going to pass the senate. >> simply would not pass the senate. >> it's dead on arrival. >> conservatives say tax credits are a government giveaway and they wan obamacare's expansion phased out quickly and then there are republican moderates meaning fierce opposition at town hall. they are pushing back on the plan to phase out the medicaid expansion by 2020 and to cap federal funding by medicaid enrollees. >> in ohio we have the expanded medicaid critical to covering people who otherwise would not get health care. >> pulling the rug out from the vulnerable populations is not really the direction we want to go. >> during the campaign the president was open to further expanding medicaid. >> we will get -- >> will you expand medicaid. >> you can do it through medicaid, you can do it through some other way. but i am very -- this has to do with humanity. this has to do with having a heart. >> and in january, mr. trump promised insurance for everybody, telling it "the washington post," there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it you don't get it. that's not going to happen with us.

conservatives want to scrap obamacare completely and they call the current house republican bill obamacare light. will the president use his own political capital to insist that the president put aside ideological differences and support the bill? on the campaign trail mr. trump promised he would own it. >> we'll call it donald care. >> schmoozing lawmakers and so far not twisting arms. it was vice president mike pence in kentucky on saturday selling health care, not the president. >> for us to seize this opportunity to repeal and replace obamacare once and for all, we need every republican in congress and we're counting on kentucky. >> yesterday afternoon i spoke with the secretary of health and human services tom price whose job it will be to implement the obamacare replacement. i started by asking him whether the republican plan which leaves much of the obamacare architecture in place is an acknowledgement that the health care system can't be run by the free market alone? >> no, not at all. obviously, this is a transition

that we're going through, but the important thing is to appreciate that the market as it is right now is failing. obamacare, the aca, has failed. yoha premiums going up, you have deductibles where people have an insurance card, but they don't have any coverage. we ha third of the counties that only have one insurer offering coverage. five states offering only one insurer offering coverage, and that is not. responsible to the individuals selecting the coverage. we need to fix this and move in a direction that puts patients, and doctors in charge not washington d.c.. >> i know you say obamacare is failing, if you have a system that premiums go up and enrollment went up, too, that's not the definition of a failing system. >> well, in fact, the number of individuals who actually got coverage through the exchange who didn't have coverage before weren't eligible for medicaid before is relatively small so it turned things upside down completely for 3 million or 4 or

5 million individuals and the premiums didn't go down as the previous president promised. they lost the coverage they have, and the lost the ability to see the providers they wanted to see. we need to move in the direction that respects the principles of accessability for all, quality and choices for patients making certain that we, again, have the patient-centered system. >> let's go to the affordability aspect. first of all, can you say for certain that once this bill is passed, nobody, nobody will be worse off financially when it comes to paying for health care? >> i'll tell you right now there are a lot of people that are worse off right now paying for health care and they aren't getting the care that they need. the premiums are up and deductibles are up. if you're an individual making $50,000 $60,000 and your deductible is $8,000, $12,000, you may not have coverage, and i hear from former colleagues all of the time about patients who come into their office and they recommend something for them and they're not able to get it because the deductible is so high.

>> i noticed you ducked the aspect of whether you can guarantee that nobody will be worse off financially? >> i firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we're going through understanding that they'll have choices that they can select the kind of coverage that they want for themselves and for their family, not the government forces them to buy. so there's costs that needs to come down and we believe we're going to be able to do that through the system. there's coverage that will go up. remember, chuck, there are 20 million folks right now in this nation who said to the federal government, i'll pay a penalty or take a waiver. i'm not even going to get coverage in the system that we currently have. that may be a system that works for government or insurance, but it doesn't work for people. we need one that works for people. >> you think it will work for the 20 million. you believe that? >> we believe -- i believe and the president believes firmly that if you create a system that's accessible for everybody and provide the financial feasibility that we have a great opportunity to increase coverage

over where we are right now as opposed to where the line is going right now where people are losing coverage and we'll have fewer individuals covered than we do currently. >> let's go to the financial feasibility here. in fayette county, west virginia, kaiser family foundation estimates the $4,000 tax credit that a 60-year-old making $30,000 a year will get under the american healthcare act is almost $8,000 less than they would get under obamacare. this is a county, by the way, that voted overwhelmingly for president trump. the point is this, you say that this will make it more affordable and access to coverage, under this plan in this county in this state, less money and more expensive for these folks. >> that's looking at it in a silo. if you look at it in the way that the market will allow them for individuals to have choices, who knows what that 60-year-old wants. i know the federal government doesn't know what the 60-year-old wants. i know that he or she knows what

he or she wants and they'll provide decreasing costs and choices for folks you make it so the system can be responsive to that individual. that's the way you drive down costs. >> why not means test the tax credits? why do it by age where you may essentially have it where you're incentivizing folks not to buy health insurance until they actually need it? >> it's a great question. in fact, i've been working on this for so long i've gone through the phase where i've had it completely related to income and became convinced by the folks who do this on a day-to-day basis, day in and day out basis, that the most predictive element of an individual's life in terms of what health coverage will cost is not income and it makes sense, it's age. as your age increases your health care costs increase and the cost of the coverage increases. so they've pegged it to age. there's an opportunity to put some means testing in there, but that's not the most -- that's not the correlation factor to what it actually costs.

age is the thing that correlates best to what health coverage costs. >> age is also -- and this is a part of obamacare that didn't work which was to try to get as many young people on the system. they needed 40% of folks under 35 in the system to keep premiums down. it hasn't gotten to that. how do you do it? how does it do it here? because this system seems to essentially say to folks under 35, don't worry about it. if you don't want to get health care we're not going to make you do it and that only increases premiums for older folks, does it not? >> no. what we say to that 30, 35-year-old individual, you know that you need health coverage. what we'll do is provide a system that allows you an array of choices so that you can respond and choose the coverage plan that works best for you and your family and not be dictated to by the federal government and have to purchase something that you most likely do not need. >> we have two pieces of information we do not have yet and there is voting on in congress. the estimate of this bill and how many would be covered and

the second is what's to hit to the deficit? on the coverage issue, we don't know the financial issue yet, on the coverage issue a couple of estimates out there. one as high as 15 million fewer people covered according to one estimate by brookings that that's what they believe the congressional budget office will show when they're able to come out with an estimate. 15 million. is that an acceptable number to you? is that what it really is? do you go back and say we have to tweak this? >> i'll tell you the plan that we leave out here will not leave that number of individuals covered. i believe we'll have more individuals covered and we'll have folks evaluating this and modeling this saying yes, indeed, this plan will cover more individuals than are currently covered. remembering right now that the trend line is down on the number of individuals being covered. it's not increasing, and the cbo estimate five, six, seven years ago when this started they estimated that over 20 million people would have coverage at the end of the ten-year window. in fact, it's about half of that

right now. so cbo has been very adept in not providing appropriate coverage statistics. >> all right. this plan has some medicaid expansion in it to form, although you cap it in certain respects. this plan has tax credits, another name for a subsidy. it's made some on the right say, you know what? this is obamacare-lite. you're essentially accepting the architecture, but just trying to remodel the building. what say you? >> no. absolutely not. in fact, this is a little puzzling because independents and conservatives for decades have said haven't we equalize the tax treatment of the purchase of health care coverage for folks who get it through their employer and folks who aren't able to get it through their employer and that's what the tax credits do. we don't dictate to people what they must buy. what we say is here is an opportunity for you to get a tax credit that the 175 million individuals getting their coverage from their employer

those folks have a tax credit and it's the moms and the pops -- >> should those folks have a tax credit or shld people like you and may have to pay taxes on their health insurance benefits? >> if part of our society have a tax win benn fit for the purchase of health coverage, then i'm of the belief and the president is of the belief that it needs to be fair for everybody. we -- that's why you have to have a tax credit. >> that's why you want to have a tax credit, but you're not going to of get the revenue from upper income folks who get generous health insurance policies from their companies? >> that's another system that's been in place, as i say, 175 million folks are getting their coverage through their employer right now and that's a debate that we ought to have, but the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the american people support making it equal for individuals who are getting it from their employer and not getting it from their employer.

they're in the small group markets which has been literally destroyed by the aca and it will reinvigorate the insurance market and it will drive down costs because you'll have competition and transparency in the system. >> you accept this bill. you own this bill. president trump accepts this bill and owns this bill. fair? >> we strongly support this plan. the bill and the regulatory opportunity to modify the system in a way that works for patients and the other piece of legislation that is required that can't go through on the first part. >> my thanks to hhs secretary tom price who i spoke to yesterday. last month president trump said nobody knew health care could be so complicated. one person did, kathleen sebelius, who was secretary of health and human services and is a strong advocate for obamacare. she joins me now. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> let me start with a question about the republican plan and whether you accept the idea that this is obamacare-lite. do you believe they've kept the architecture of obamacare?

>> i'm not sure exactly what the goal is. we we pretty clear in the obama administration what the point was, insure everybody. we know we had to fix insurance rules. people who were buying insurance on their own needed some financial help in the marketplace because they didn't have an employer contribution. you could keep kids on their parents' plan and make medicaid equal across the country, whether you lived in georgia or california you qualified as a low-income adult at the same level. i'm not sure what the goal is here. so they have kept some pieces. the pre-existing condition, they have kept some subsidies in sort of the wrong place to the wrong folks -- >> i understand that, but if this were the plan in place, and you and president obama were back in office in four years and you could reimplement obamacare, could this architecture that the

republicans are putting it together be used to re-implement obamacare? >> i don't think so because this does serious damage to the whole marketplace theory and companies will flee given the uncertainty and the likelihood, this quickly becomes a high-risk pool. >> they make the argument, by the way, that companies are fleeing now because they feel as if it's too expensive to try to insure everybody and we do have this issue in rural america. it's truly the rural counties that have been hit the hardest on the obamacare when it comes to the word choice. >> i think that's true, chuck. there's no question this is a young and fragile market. it's been made that way sort of intentionally by congress who blocked the risk sharing. i was interested in the piece in this bill that has a state stability pool, recognizing that you really do need to get a stable market. this also was a monopolistic market for decades before the affordable care act. so the notion that somehow it

blossoms oight. there are new insurs in. i was in florida last week. pat garrity who is the head of the bluecross blueshield of florida. florida has not been a welcoming state to this law. >> right. >> pat garrity ended up 2016 open enrollment with 1 million members in the florida marketplace and the company in the black. he said, of course, this works. we can make it work and go forward. >> i want to play something that former president bill clinton said on the campaign trail and get your reaction. take a listen. >> people are getting killed in this deal are small business people and individuals who make just a little too much to get into these subsidies. so you have this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people are out there busting it at sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. it's the craziest thing in the world. >> obviously, republicans took those comments and had a field day with them. >> you bet. >> did he have a point?

>> he did have a point. there was a bill with 400% of poverty and you no longer have a subsidy in the marketplace and about 85% of the folks have a subsidy and any talk about premium increases, that isn't what consumers are paying because their subsidies rise where the premiums rise. >> again, this is fixable. you could have a much more graduated subsidy system. you could have a higher income point that could easily be done to stabilize the marketplace, but that wasn't what the republican congress wanted to do. they wanted to actually dismantle this bill from the outset. >> one of the pledgees that secretary price made to me in that interview was there will be more people covered under his plan. what do you make of that proclamation? >> what i know right now and this is a real fact is that we are at the lowest point of uninsured americans that has ever been recorded. under 10% of americans lack coverage. that's still too many, but that's where we are. there is no estimate in looking

at this bill that with less money going to subsidies, th older americans beinable to be charged five times what younger americans are being charged, and with no variation based on income that more people will have coverage. there's every estimation that anywhere from 2 million to 15 million people will lose coverage in this bill and there are going after medicaid expansion which is a lot of lower income, working adults who will also lose that coverage. >> what do you say to conservatives who worry that the medicaid expansion that's in obamacare will only make it a permanent entitlement program that people will never get off medicaid. what do you say to that criticism? >> that's a good point, and i think they have gone and doubled down on medicaid. republicans for a while in the congress have been really fundamentally opposed to the 50-year-old partnership about medicaid.

a health safety net. they not only in this bill go after the expanded population which is actually much cheaper to insure in medicaid than it is in the private market and lower premiums and lower out of market costs and they have gone after the traditional medicaid program, disabled individuals, poor kids, pregnant moms, have the bursts in the country, the largest payer for nursing home care and they'll cap what the feds pay. those populations don't go away. i used to run a medicaid program. we have 11,000 people a day turning 65. there will be more people in nursing homes and that cost shifts to the state. it shifts to the local government and more it shifts to taxpayers. >> kathleen sebelius, i have to leave it there. former hhs secretary. i have a feeling you'll be back as this debate isn't ending any time soon. >> you bet. >> the winners and losers under the republican plan. there a lot of ony in the answer.

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welcome back. panelists here, rick santelli welcome back. panelists here, rick santelli from cnbc. helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for the new york times and auth are on of this book "madam president." a fantastic book. stephanie cutter and columnist for the new york times david brooks. let's dive into politics. rick santelli, you're a free market guy, where are you on this and where are you on the plan? too much obamacare? too little obamacare? >> it's a mess. you can't have that discussion unless you know what the service costs. i go to the doctor, and i have a daughter that for a while didn't have insurance. she gets a different price than people who have insurance. i think we need more market spirits in competition. i certainly don't see it in this bill, but i do understand that repeal and replace would have been easier if there was a mandate. president trump won.

we can argue about the mandate. >> right. >> there's a problem here. if you deal with the reality of politics, i understand phase one and phase two. if we want to fix it the correct way, i just think the politics are impossible to accomplish that. here we sit. >> yeah. what do you think of that, david? i think he's right. we may be a position that we can't fix this if one party isn't going to participate in the other party's bill. >> here's what i don't understand what's going on this week. we have the election where we learned that a lot of people are out of the job market, the social fabric is frayed and the lessons is less and pay attention and help these people and the republican party can help the people with market-based mechanisms which i support. do they do that? no. they have huge tax cuts for the rich and it only goes to people above 250 and that's been stable in all of the plans that they've come up with and thrown around and they're throwing 8, 10, 15 million people off the rails. it's declaring war on thr own voters and then there is a wing of the party saying that's too

much. we need to totally decimate them. the republican party needs to figure out are we going to help our voters or are we still going to be the party of the rich? >> stephanie, they're united on the politics of health care, but they're not united on the policy that they want. >> well, that's because they aren't actually, i hate to, you know, shed truth on this, but they're not looking to actually fix the policy. they're looking to fulfill a campaign promise, and i agree with david that trump was on the campaign trail making promises to his voters about lowering costs and increasing coverage. this bill does nothing on either one of those accounts. and the fact that they're pushing it through in the dark of night, 4:30 a.m. this bill comes out without cbo coring which you know, it's a very inside washington thing and that's a very independent thing to tell you exactly how many people are going to be covered and how many people are going to lose their coverage and what it will cost to impact the deficit and we don't know any of that. they're voting on this with no

information and what their bill actually does. >> what i find interesting is they're already trashing what the cbo is about to come up with. tom price just sat there and said they've made mistakes in the past. you can hear -- >> they expect a bad number. >> and they're trying to discredit it which i find very fun. >> what's interesting and you point this out, rick. ross said in the new york times. in fairness to its designers, on health care policy the republican party is an organism that does not know what it believes in anymore. do you think that's right? >> i think it's partially correct. i think that when it comes to this particular issue, first of all, we're watching the sausage get made and we're watching it with a lot of eyes broadcasting it to the entire country. we don't actually know. i believe trump's a compromises. i've said fromay one. when donald trump ge in there he will make equal number of republicans unhappy as democrats unhappy, and i don't think we've

gone through the process and the one thing i'll stand up for is i don't like boards, i like everybody to have different ideas. and i think this bill will get marked up and i think that what the president allows what the markings will do to get it passed will be surprising to both parties. >> we used to have the old argument that government versus the state or the market versus the state and it was pro-government, small government and now we're the social fabric is decaying and capitalism isn't working for a lot of people and you want to be pro-market you have security so they can compete in the market and you have to use the state to give them that security. if you want to be pro-market and you have to be pro-government at least in some form and republicans are caught in that historical pivot. >> i think for health care it's sort of an impure test on the politics because you're dealing with life and death issues and for both parties. it's not -- you can't have purity. there needs to be a mix of free market as well as government

intervention and government stability, and so we went through this how many years ago? eight years ago? and without republican -- even though we were putting forward republican ideas republicans refused to participate and it caused factions in our own party. >> it poisoned the well. >> ultimately it poisoned the well because republicans wouldn't participate. it's going to take everybody coming together to fix this problem. >> what's the likelihood of this town doing that this year? >> i'd be curious to see whether the white house actually gets behind this in a real way. i've seen nothing -- >> there is a reason why they're not saying it's trump care. >> but by the way, to pick up on rick's point, if you're a negotiator and it is smart to have some distance, but we'll be curious how much distances we have. >>hen come back, governor john kasich on why our two political parties need to stop being at each other's throats and on the credibility of president trump. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. even though governor john kasich of ohio won only one primary, ohio, he developed a reputation as a republican willing to work with democrats and saying what's on his mind. on friday, he had an op-ed in "the new york times."

arguing they had support, and they were trying to repeal and rewrite without democrats and they were wrong then and they're wrong now. not surprising to hear that. >> if you don't get both together it's not sustainable. we'll be back at this again. >> in three years when democrats take over or whatever. >> the other thing is i was there when we created the c.h.i.p. program, the health program for children and it was done on a bipartisan basis and it was sustainable. i was there in '97 when we did the budget bill. i was one of the architects. it was sustainable, but when you jam something through just one party over another it's not sustainable and it becomes a point of attack. >> i want to get to some of the substance of this new bill. here's what vice president pence said to an ohio tv station lobbying you and senator portman. take a listen. >> i am very confident that this legislation will give ohio both the resources and the flexibility that your governor, and your legislature will need to be able to meet those needs going forward and literally offer our most vulnerable citizens even better coverage. >> is he right? >> no, he's not right.

first of all, medicaid expansion which has covered 700,000 people in my state, a big chunk of whom are mentally ill and drug addicted and have chronic diseases, they tend to churn and move off that program. then they have to go to an exchange that is broken. the bill needs fixed. the current system doesn't work and that's why it's possible to get democrats involved, but you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. let me ask you this, chuck. if i put you an exchange for your family and i give you a $4,000 tax credit or $3,000, what kind of insurance are you going to buy for $3,000? will you be offer any in the state of ohio? >> that will be up to the private market, but what i would tell you is the exchange needs to be fixed because in some places there's only one insurance company. that can be fixed. i've said it all along. it's not that we love obamacare. don't throw the baby out with the bath water. don't kill medicaid expansion and you have to fix the exchange and you have to have the ability to subsidize at lower income levels. chuck, let's forget all of this.

here's what we're talking about. if you're drug addicted and mentally ill, you have to consistently see the doctor. from what i see the resources are not there. if you're chronically ill, you'll have to have consistent coverage, under this bill you don't have it. my hope is it will probably pass the house. it's going to get to the senate and that's where i hope that they will make improvements and that's where i hope democrats will come in and work with republicans to bring about the improvements so we can reform the system and still not cut off the people who need the help. >> let me ask you about president trump here because candidate trump made it seem as if he was open to a lot of ideas including maybe expanding medicaid in one interview with me and saying there would be insurance for everyone and there wasn't going to be people priced out of the market. he is supporting this bill. i know he's been lobbying you and you've been lobbying him back and forth.

you guys have spent a lot of time talking about this. do you think he's firm on this bill or is he negotiable? >> how can i speak for him? but if i were to guess, no. i think he's very open to compromise. he's told me that. for example, he and i talked about the significant increase in pharmaceutical costs, drug costs and medicare. >> do you think the right is pushing this bill too far? >> look, what's happening -- look, this bill right now. i'm the governor of the state. i have to take with my people, we have to treat people who have these illnesses, and the fact of the matter is it will put us in a bind. now, that doesn't mean that we can't fix this along the way, but we need to have democrats involved so that what we do is going to be not only significant, but will last and then we get to the real problem which is the rising cost of health care and that's where santelli hit the nail on the head. we need to get to more of a market-driven system where we pay for quality and not for quantity in health care. >> you know, you said -- you were talking about incentivizing democrats.

>> i think the president, by the way, would be flexible. i have no doubt that he would be flexible. he just wants to get something through. >> the idea of getting democrats involved here. the other day president trump kind of expressed what sounded like a conspiracy theory about obamacare and implosion in 2017. take a listen. >> '17 would be a disaster for obamacare. that's the year it was meant to explode because obama won't be here. that is what it was supposed to be. as bad as it is now, it will get worse. is this a way to incentivize democrats. if you go down this road saying oh, it was a conspiracy and saying it was going to implode. >> we're all big boys and girls, if you really want to be a leader -- look, i believe the political parties are disintegrating before our very eyes. i think more and more people across this country see no purpose for political parties -- >> do you? >> i'll tell you something, you talk to people and they're more

and more independents because of the squabbling. what's at risk here to democrats is you can't turn your backs on these people and you need to invite democrats in, because we're talking about lives. all of this consumption about who gains politically. life is short and if all you focus in life is what's in it for me you're a loser. you are a big-time loser. this country better be careful we're not losing the soul of our country because we play politics and we forget people who are in need. >> if you were a citizen and not an elected official would you be a member of the republican party right now? >> well, i'm not going to be a democrat because the problem is they're top-down people d the republicans should be bottom up and right now they're trying to fulfill campaign promises, and you have to put people first. we have to drive a system from the bottom up. >> you sound like a guy ready to move to the independent wing. >> no, i'm a republican because i'm a conservative and we have

to examine our beliefs and philosophy, and i would say in this bill you have to be in a position where you reform the system, but you don't leave people behind. you just can't do it because these are people that could be in your family, live right next door to you. we have to care about people, and we can get this done. we can reform it. we can change it and save money and have a better system. i don't have any doubt about it, we can do it, and i can prove it to you in my state where we have controlled medicaid and yet been able to reach out and help so many people in the shadows. >> nothing more contagious than your enthusiasm for policy. governor john kasich, thanks for being on and sharing your views. when we come back, the latest political lesson and why you might want to be careful about what you wish for. because, actually there's five. ooohh!! aaaahh!! uh! hooooly mackerel. wow.

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♪ ♪ ♪ welcome back. data down load time and we're looking at the winners and loses of the house republican plan to repeal and replace obamacare. we'll take a closer look at this with the county level analis from the kaiser family foundation and overlay it with politics. starting with clark county, nevada, clinton carried the county with 52% of the vote. under obamacare, aca, a 60-year-old making $40,000 a year qualifies for $4,380 a year. under the proposed house republican plan they would get a flat credit of $4,000 which means they would have to find another $380 more per year out of their own pockets. let's move over to rural

northumberland county, pennsylvania. donald trump won this county with 69% of the vote. with obamacare, the same 60-year-old qualifies for a subsidy of ready for this $11,150. with the new house republican plan, he or she would get just $4,000. it's that same $4,000 tax credit which means they would have to dig out more than $7,000 out of their own pocket to pay for additional coverage. let's look at 81% of the counties that voted for hillary clinton overall. in fact, a 60-year-old making $40,000 a year would see their subsidy decline overall. the same would be true in 93% of the counties carried by president trump. in fact, trump counties would also see bigger subsidy cuts. this is a point that many democrats have been making. in fact, here's another way to look at it, with just two examples of the new york times upshot, those who stand to gain $2500 in subsidies were split in november, 47-46 clinton over trump. those set to lose $5,000 to

$7500 in federal assistance for health care, they voted 60-35, trump over clinton. so in other words, financially, in this plan, it's trump folks that get hurt more than clinton voters. look, president trump was elected largely on to repeal and replace the affordable care act. trump supporters may get the repeal, but higher costs could come as part of that deal. coming up, why the trump administration suddenly thinks the jobs report that was once 90% fiction is now right on the money. announcer: get on your feet for the nastiest bull in the state of texas. ♪ ♪

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welcome back. let's turn our attention to just the economy as a whole. there was a pretty decent jobs report this week, but what was amazing was the reaction to the jobs report from the republican side of the aisle. take a listen. >> and you take a look at that jobs report, the jobs report is fiction because all of the people that -- >> you think it's total fiction? there's been improvements from the crash? >> i would say 90%. we all have improvements from crashes. >> i talked to the president prior to this and he said to quote him very clearly. they may have been phony in the past, but it's very real now. >> sean spicer trying to use humor there. here is last three februarys. jobs numbers, 235,000 this last february, it was 237,000 in '16 and in 2015 it was 238. rick santelli, thousands of jobs have been lost. we lost 2,000 jobs.

is it a mistake sometimes that the president when he was a candidate said too many crazy things like that? >> i think it's a mistake for candidates or once they get elected in office to be dwelling too much in the topic of markets. markets are unforgiving and sometimes they move for reasons we can't possibly foresee, but when it comes to job, jobs, job, and i might have been the first person to yell it that way. >> sure. >> what i would say is this, why are jobs important? because it needs to translate into growth. >> right. >> there's a step that's been missing there. i think that the president is wrong. i think we have a consistent, low variance monthly report on jobs. what we need to work on is the notion of why we cover it so closely. we need enhanced productivity and maybe that's on the regulatory side to be addressed in the future and we need to get more americans to be better consumers and the best way to do that is to put more money in their pockets. >> it struck me in the jobs report, he shouldn't have said this is a jobs report if you

want to get an infrastructure plan and you need to create a sense of urgency that you need to do this, don't you say this is enough? don't you make rick's argument? >> first of all, who can explain what donald trump says about anything? can explain what donald trump says about anything and i find it kind of insulting that sean spicer is laughing but now donald trump -- >> it was funny the way it was phrased. >> as somebody that lived through the job reports, they were actually once very important when we were shedding 700,000 jobs a month. i agree with rick, we got to look at other things, if we want to increase productivity, we do have to make adjust tments in infrastructure. president trump was looking for the easy victory. >> david, this gets at the issue with president trump and a weird comment ocho wombamacare was de to em ploid. he grabs on to a myth to make a

quick point in the moment and it does always backfire on him. >> a reason this country is great and successful is we have great institutions that are honest. they make mistakes but you got the congressional budget office, the labor statistics and intelligence agencies make mistakes but make is smas us sm and people are saying they are corrupt. the deep state -- >> this deep state phrase is real paranoia. >> corruption and dishonest and rigged. if you get to sit in the offices, they are filled with people you can't figure out why they are working there and good people trying to do their job and serve the country and it's int intellectual pollution. >> he made it his mission for two months he's been in office to turn into an opposition party just about everything that doesn't necessarily conform to his view of the world or agrees

with him including intelligence community including what we heard about the cbo and the past of the burro labors and statistics. he's going to say it's all, you know, it's -- >> this deep state talk feels very, very destructive, rick. >> you know, i think the deep state topic in general is very destructive. consider this, we have the technology to pretty much hear everything. can you imagine how our holiday dinners would be if every relative conversation from birth was shown to every other relative. we're playing with dynamite here and i think this really tran sen tran se transcend stories of the day and i find inacucuracy is non-partisan. we can't have a conversation about accuracy. it's the intention behind it that really is the issue. >> all right. take a quick pause and be back in 45 seconds. end game and i'll have fun here.

what if we use the obamacare language we've been hearing to repeal and replace another very important part of our american culture. >> coming up, "meet the press end game and post game" brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. not down. it's feeling up thinng up living up. it's bng in moti... in body in spiri in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition. it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it.

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baseball draft coming up. what happens if we apply repeal and replace language to appe appealing smarts in america. first, time to empower players. you can't have a one size fits all system by burro cats in washington d.c. that may work for the redskins, nationals and wizards but not the teams beyond the beld way. next, we need to give athletes and home runs and touchdowns and slam dunks. these things should be out of reach, let players choose the success that's best for them. another key element, teams need the ability to cross state lines. states are the laboratories of democracy. don't limit the colts to indiana or dodgers to florida. the new york giants play in new jersey. they have won four super bowls. the congressional budget office is sceptical but the patriots would win the last super bowl and yes, using cbo scoring they did win. but if we apply dynamic scoring

or by our own estimate, the atlanta falcons won 59 of the 64 minutes. who is the real winner here? if we do nothing, sports will collapse on its own. on any given day, half the teams play loose. 50% of all teams are already losing. #sad and only going to get worse. sports is in a death spiral. we have to do something. really comes down to a choice the chance and the best and only chance we'll get and one final point, if we don't build a wall around sports culture, we'll have soccer with nil-nil ties. sports is for winners, not losers. >> that's a it. i disagree with the last sentence. >> we had a big health care show in general. what is this going to look like in a year? do you think this bill is actually going to pass the united states senate? >> i do not. it's hard to pass a health care bill. everybody seems to be against it. the senators are flaking out. so i think we'll get without a

trump care, we'll be stuck with obamacare, which is in det deteruation. >> i think we'll see it slow down this week when the cbo numbers cop out. >> senators will run for the bill. >> i think the bill will pass. >> the house and senate? >> absolutely. we have no idea when thatill looklike. >> you think what we see now. >> it will go througchanges in opinion. >> you think we make it? this year? >> i don't think it's going to pass and i also think we're going to be stuck with obamacare, we're not going to fix what's wrong with it, which puts us in a worse position. >> the difference is within the republican party are structural. not like a magic solution that will please them because -- >> i was going to say, there seems to be a divide that can't be fixed. >> the tea party to the freedom caucus is a nice pull and i think they will get some values and ideas embedded in some changes. >> do you think democrats will

go for this? >> i think -- you know what? let's go back to sports. how far would the green bay packers get if the team they are playing after four downs doesn't like the way it went and take the ball and referee and go home? i certainly would like to think that we can work together to some extent and i think 2018 election -- >> we're not living in the same existence. >> in contention get some of these senators to work together. >> it will have to move a long way. >> all i know, another election all about health care. a quick note before we go on this week's pod cast, we had a chance to spend time talking one on one about her new book and other passion those nil-nil ties in soccer this book madam president, it's an amazing book and story you tell on the podcast. please go listen. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the

press." >> you can see more end game and post game sponsored by boeing on the meet the press facebook page. intonsorrsponsored by boe "meet the press "kwot facebook page.