i think we have to remind them that, you know, if this is what you're basing your vote on, you know, you have to look at the historical context in which that information was provided. i think that's an important, you know, aspect to how they do it. i think there's going to be a ton of factors that people rely on as they do this. >> reporter: i have one follow- follow-up. i may be confused about the wiretapping, your answers in terms of the president's response. the president was the one who said this and said he he learned something. so, can you just establish for me, because i'm confused, the president did discuss what it is that he had in mind when he he tweeted, with the department of justice before the department -- >> no, i'm not going to get into what the president knew or didn't know prior to it. i think we've already commented on this multiple times. >> reporter: but how would the department of justice have any idea -- >> i don't know. this was a request made of the house intelligence committee not to us. i don't want to get into -- starting to parse what we knew

and didn't. that request did not come to us. it went to the department of justice. >> reporter: steve king was saying we can't restart civilization. the white house have any reaction? >> i'll definitely touch base with the president and get back to you. hallie. >> reporter: you just said a minute ago what the president meant when he tweeted about the wiretapping was and you sort of explained it. you also stood at the podium and says the tweet speaks for itself. when do you decide a president's twee, when his words are open to interpretation and am they stand on their own? >> i'm sorry, can you further explain? his tweets do speak for themselves. >> reporter: but you interpreted it for peter saying, well, he didn't mean -- >> that's not what i said. no no -- >> reporter: you said when he meant wiretapping, he meant surveillance. that's whatnot he said. >> he had it in quotes. >> reporter: you're interpreting the tweet for us. >> no, in some cases i'll ask about what the quotes mean. >> reporter: did you ask this? >> yes. he said i was referring to

surveillance overall. it was something that had been referred too in other reports. >> reporter: he cited other reports in his conversation with you? >> yes. >> reporter: is that based dab on -- >> good try. i've already been clear on that. >> reporter: i have a second. i want to go back to health care. yes or no. are cbo numbers legitimate or not? >> that's not my determination to make. i'm telling -- as i mentioned -- >> reporter: the numbers legitimate? >> hallie, it depends. a lot of things -- hold on, hallie up. guys have like an nbc thing. let me answer the question. i think when you look at whatever that number is, whether it's budget or projections over or whatever, i think there's a track record that goes along a lot of times with whether or not the projections in certain areas, whether it's unemployment, budgetary numbers, whatever our -- what the track record is. all i'm suggesting to you is very clearly that the numbers they did the last time ty did health care were off by more than 50% when it came to the number of people insured. that's not my interpretation. that's a fact. and i think it's important for people to understand the

differences. e eamon. >> reporter: there are two possibilities. the president made a decision back in november and preet bharara came down to the lobby of trump tower and said the president made that commitment. did the president make that commitment to preelt bharara? >> i don't think it matters at the end of the day. the attorney general followed the practice for the last several administrations and asked the attorney generals from the last administration to submit their resignation. >> reporter: it matters in investigations and also the president made a commitment. if he made a commitment, why de change his mind? >> as i mentioned earlier, he called him to thank him for his service last week. he followed in the past practice of last several administrations and last several administrations they asked them to step down. that's the appropriate thing. >> reporter: what's the difference -- >> i called on someone, thank you. >> reporter: veronica cleary from fox 5. i have two questions. the first, especially in light of what's happened in the room here today, the president

tweeted this morning that much of the media is being rude and that we should be nice. so -- >> that's nice. >> reporter: my question is, is it our job to be nice? do you think we're nice? >> as i -- thank you, veronica. i'll leave it at this. i think i've been asked for my personal opinion several times. that's not my job. i don't get up here to speak for myself. i speak for the president. i think that he has been very clear he doesn't believe some of the behavior and the reporting has been appropriate. and as to hallie's point, i will let the tweet speak for itself. >> reporter: second question. but in is about you. the interaction you had at the apple store this weekend, what would be, i guess, your message to individuals who want to maybe -- i see that woman was -- you could argue, was very aggressive. if somebody doesn't want to be aggressive and has a question for you, what would be your kind of message to a regular citizen that has an issue? >> ask it.

i interact with individuals all day long. 99% of them are pleasant, even with people who may not agree. with our philosophy or our programs or whatever. but it's a free country. and the beauty of it is that people can act how they want, no matter how that's interpreted. as long as they step on the -- stay on the right side of the first amendment, we're fine. jessica? >> reporter: thanks, sean. you said when the president said wiretapping in that tweet, he meant a whole host of surveillance types. we can be crystal clear, what surveillance types was he referring to then? what would you consider part of that range? >> i think there is -- there's a whole host of tactics that can be used to monitor somebody, either through wiretap or other ways in which you can surveil somebody. >> reporter: we took that to mean monitoring his calls specifically. what else would you include? >> there's a whole host of things that fall into that category so i'm not sure how you

took it. but i think there is a wide range of ways in which somebody can be monitored or followed up on. and i think if you contacted, you know, one of the law enforcement agencies, they will provide you with a whole host of ways. thank you all. be safe tomorrow with the snow. thank you very much. take care. stay safe. >> are you briefing tomorrow? >> sean spicer taking a lot of tough questions from reporters there in the briefing room telling our own nbc reporters that you guys have an nbc thing. yes, we do. it's called journalism. we'll talk about two things from hour. first off, it's going to be obamacare and the repeal of obamacare and the replacement of it with the republican health care plan. and the cbo score that is -- that we are awaiting. secondly, what we just heard much of in that briefing room from hallie jack soson and pete alexander asking sean spicer

when the american public can trust what the president says. peter alex ealexander is with u. did you get an answer? >> reporter: i'll let you be the judge. what's striking is this is based on the conversation we had with sean spicer on friday. the president over the course of the campaign was heavily critical of the jobs number, and he said through sean spicer they were phoney then but very real now. the question i was trying to get to, when can we believe the president's words? when he accuses president obama of wiretapping, when will he say that was phoney or vice versa? whether we got an answer, most can judge for themselves. sean spicer said to me, if the president isn't joking, you can believe him, which raises another question about when is the president joking is when he isn't. katy? >> that is a very good question. one thing we learned having watched donald trump now as a politician for coming on almost

two years, i think the american people at home will watch this will know this as well, if it benefits donald trump, he likes it, if it does not benefit donald trump, he does not like it. that's usually when it's fake or terrible or sad. rick tyler is here with me, an msnbc contributor. also the former spokesperson for the ted cruz campaign. rick, you know, it's been a week since the president -- president trump tweeted to the american public and his millions and millions of followers that it is -- is it illegal -- is it legal for a sitting president to be wiretapping a president prior to the election? he's basically ying that president obama wiretapped him, accused him. saying he h evidence of this. the white house has not provided any of that evidence. >> there was a deadline today. >> the deadline today. the doj -- >> i think they're going to show a microwave. >> rick is being funny, referring to kellyanne conway saying earlier today her

microwave over the weekend -- >> there's no evidence. i don't suspect they'll provide any. maybe this has happened, we don't know about it, but someone on the white house staff should have walked into the oval office and said, mr. president, we're going to walk this back. until we walk this back, this is going to go on and on and on. now, unless you think this is productive, we'll go on and on with it, but i can't imagine that it's productive. >> do you have any sense of anybody in that white house being able to walk into the oval office and saying, mr. president, we have to walk this back? he's never really walked anything back. he's apologized once. that apology came after the "access hollywood" tape and it was -- >> tepid. >> -- could say whether or not it was a sufficient apology. >> he never walked back claiming barack obama was not an american citizen. that went on -- that was the beginning of his political career and he's never walked that back. >> do we have kasie hunt with us yet? kasie hunt, i'm glad we have you. you're on capitol hill. talk to me about the deadline

that the doj faces today to get proof to the intelligence committee and the house there for this wiretapping claim. >> reporter: well, it does sound as though from what spicer had to say they have certainly not encouraged the doj to respond in a material way to in letter. and we do know that inside the letter, the house intelligence committee did not say if you do not answer our questions, we will subpoena this information. they didn't say what mig ppen in the event that there was no response. now, i think that you can probably anticipate some public anger potentially from democrats if, in fact, they do get no response at all to this letter. but at this stage, it's not clear that we'll actually understand or see any response or lack thereof. next week we're expecting jim comb y direct comey, director of the fbi, to testify in front of the house

intelligence que. that might be a forum where you see people press further on this. while the questions have focused on this house intelligence demand, there is also senator lindsey graham, who's doing a parallel investigation in his judiciary subcommittee who also has power of subpoena and asked for this same information. it's entirely possible it may come out in a different way, depending on who congress demands. i do think to a certain extent the administration could potentially in this area learn that congress, as co--equal branch of government, does have some teeth. >> pete williams in our washington bureau and our justice correspondent, whose responsibility is it to hand over this evidence? the white house -- president trump says he saw the evidence. the doj is the one that congress asked for the evidence from, but where does the responsibility lie here? >> well, i'm not sure i know the answer to that question. i think -- i would look at it from the other perspective, which is where should congress go to get the information.

it does seem the administration is in a bit of a box here. on the one hand, the president has asked the congress to investigate this. kellyanne conway said this morning they're not going to comment until they investigate. it has to go back to the agencies involved here to try to get the answer. the justice department seems like a logical first stop. i agree with kasie that i wouldn't call this a deadline. that implies if something doesn't happen they'll take away the keys to the car. that's clearly not going to happen. what the justice department says is they're studying the letter. the letter hasn't been released publicly because apparently it's sensitive. it apparently discloses the sort of things that might happen that gets into the process, some of which is normally classified. so, we haven't seen the letter ourselves or we are likely not going to see the response.

>> is there any information that the doj could not give to the house intelligence committee? any information that might be above their classification level? >> no, i don't think it would be a classification issue. the only time the justice department normally doesn't give material to congress is if there is a criminal investigation. you sort of see that going on right now with the russian investigation. the justice department traditionally doesn't like to share things with congress because it could undercut a criminal investigation, but that's -- don't know that that's what's going on here. i think this is simply -- we'll have to wait and see what they give them. we just don't know how they're going to respond to this. >> let's switch gears to the house health care bill and the cbo rating that we are still awaiting. peter alexander, you had an exchange with sean spicer on whether or not the white house is going to believe the rating and whether or not we should believe the president's words about it. let's take a listen. eporr: on the cbo report,

did the president think it was real then and phoney now? >> what cbo report. >> reporter: on the expectation the cbo report is coming out about which you said if you're looking to the cbo for accuracy, you're looking to the wrong place. three years ago you confirmed obamacare is bad for the economy. >> it was bad for the economy. >> reporter: the bottom line -- >> no, no. >> reporter: you said it's not the place to find accuracy. >> let's look at the cbo's projection. it said --thy projection on obamacare was in 2016 would have 24 million people on it. the actual figure is 10.4 million people. half the number of people it predicted would be insured were on it. the last time they did this they were wildly off. the number keeps declining. >> the question is, when can we trust the president when he says -- >> you asked a question about cbo and now conflating it with a question -- >> reporter: the question in simple terms is when he says something -- when he says something, can we prust that

it's real -- >> yes. >> reporter: -- or assume it's phoney? >> donald trump has said multiple times in the past, he's cited the cbo multiple times on twitter. when he has criticized obamacare. when he did criticize obamacare. peter, what do you make of that answer? >> reporter: well, bottom line is he's not the first politician to pick facts he likes andse them. what is unique in this situation is as president right now, puts lot of americans in a unique position, as well as lawmakers to understand when what he is saying is a real comment and when it's a phoney one. that applies not just to wiretapping, the topic of cbo and the topic the president brought up which is incendiary, explosive sdpribd at the time, that more than 3 million americans voted illegally during the past election. there's a task force being formed but nothing has gone further with that. the same applies to this wiretapping issue. we all wait and try to get any better understanding of whether this is something the president truly believes or something he

was riffing on twitter on a saturday morning. >> howard, how do democrats and can they take advantage of all this confusion? >> well, despite the claims of spicer and trump, et cetera, et cetera, cbo is the most widely respected prognosticator in the country. the spicer quote, of course, is totally inaccurate as it often is. the reason for the shortfall in uninsured addition in insured people because republican governors refuse to expand medicaid, like in texas, which has 22% of adults with no health insurance -- or children with no health insurance. the cbo missed the mark because the republicans made them miss the mark. so, you know, i find this to be an incredibly distasteful and dishonest discussion. i think the american people know that. the one thing we've established in this first 50-some-odd days is donald trump does not tell the truth very oft

it's impossible to distinguish when he is tellinghe truth and when he's tellg the truth. every american is going to make up their own mind about when they think he's telling the truth and when he isn't. his general -- the general view of donald trump is he's a guy that's not honest. i think that's going to be very harmful to him. not now but some time down the line. we may be seeing the beginning of this with this investigation about the proof of obama's supposed wiretapping and russians and all this other stuff. >> rick, do you think that's going to be an issue among republicans? >> it could be -- >> well, it's an issue -- are you asking me? >> i was asking rick, but go on, howard. >> i'm sorry. well, the issue for republicans is, when do you stand up for the country and stop protecting donald trump? nunez -- the chairman of the committee has mostly been a shield for trump. he's going to have to -- actually have to do his job. we'll find out if he's going to do his job next week when they interview comey, buecause theres

some very tough questions comey will be asked and he's going to tell the truth. the truth will be uncomfortable for republicans and particularly president trump. >> as governor dean knows, in politics you have resip rcipror. it's not a repeal at all, which is why the freedom caucus is so upset because the bill actually says it is -- it is a bill to amend obamacare. so, you can take sean's big stack of papers and little republican stack, dump it on the democratic stack and that's what you have. that's what this bill is. they're pitching it as repeal and replace. so, a lot of members -- you can -- >> because it's smaller, it's not better. >> it's not better. it's actually the whole thing. the whole thing combined. but sometimes republicans will say, look, the president needs this. oftentimes that happens when the president has been in the republican party, has been in the trenches with the gop, has

gone out and campaigned and is aligned with the party. he's not. he's a populist, he'll do what he needs to get done. the question is, do they believe obama will be -- i'm sorry, that trump will be there to have their back when they make this difficult vote? i don't know. >> is donald trump just for donald trump or is he for the republican party? that's a big question that nobody has a real answer to. >> not yet. >> it's an answer they don't necessarily want to have. peter alexander, kasie hunt, rick tyler and howard dean, thank you for breaking down that press briefing with me. meanwhile, another congressman is clouded in controversy after a weekend tweet that his critics call racist. iowa steve king siding with a controversial politician overseas and he's not backing down. in an interview this is morning. >> this western civilization is a superior civilization. and we want to share it with everybody. >> we'll ask a senator from one of the most diverse states in

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iowa congressman steve king is facing backlash today over a tweet critics are calling racist. the congressman praised the far right candidate for prime minister of netherlands running on a strict immigration and anti-islam platform. in a tweet congressman king says, wilder understands culture and demographics are our destiny. we can't restore our civilization with, quote, somebody else's babies. what does he mean by that? he explained it or tried to this morning on cnn. >> well, of course i meant exactly what i said. it always is the case. chris, it's the culture. it's the culture not the blood. if you could go anywhere in the world and adopt these little babies and put them into households that assimilated into

america, those babies will grow up as american as any other baby with as much patriotism and as much love of country as any other baby. it's not about race. in fact, the struggles across this planet, we describe them as race. they're not race. they're culture-based. >> hawaii's democratic senator joins me now, on both the senate armed services and judiciary committees. senator, a number of democrats are pouncing on this today. your fellow senator brian schatz tweeted, sigh. in hawaii no one knows. ted lieu tweets, you know what makes america great? you get to make obscene comments and i get to call you a stark, racist. john lewis says this is bigoted and racist. it you suggests there is one tradition and one appearance that all humanity should conform to. this is not just republicans coming out against this, but paul ryan has also said that he

does not agree with senator -- with congressman king's statements. so, my question to you is, what h did we get to this poinwherthese outrageous statements are free to be made in such a public way? >> aloha, katy. well, steve king has always been on the fringes in terms of his views about immigration and what our country should look like. so, he's gotten even more overt in his comments. and i think it's because he thinks there is a listening ear or ears at the white house with the kind of divisiveness that has been promoted by president trump. >> when you say listening ears at the white house, what do you mean by that? >> steve bannon and probably the president himself. >> you believe they're open to this sort of message? >> i would say so. the president instituted a

muslim ban so we're talking about a president who is targeting immigration, immigrants and that's very much in line with where steve king has been. it's just that he's gotten even more outrageous. he's talked about, for example, electrified fence across our borders. that's how we deal with livestock. so, i don't think we should give much credence to steve king except that exemplifies the more outrageous things this administration has already done and i think will continue to do. at the same time, one of the most outrageous things this administration has pushed out, the president has pushed out, is the charge that president obama wiretapped him. now, we can get very easily to the bottom of this by the president simply telling us where he got that from and focusing once agn onwhat we really need to do is this trail of bread crumbs that leads from the trump team to russian interests and russia is trying to interfere with our political system and our democracy.

that's what we should keep our eyes on. i called for an independent investigation. we need special counsel to get to the bottom of this. this is clearly an issue that the president and his team does not want us to continue to focus on. >> senator, on that subject, let's loosely call it a deadline that the doj is facing today to deliver evidence on any wiretapping. the president's adviser, kellyanne conway, was on the morning shows today talking about potential evidence that there might be to hand over. take a listen to what she said. >> do you know whether trump tower was wiretapped? >> what i can say is there are many ways to survey he'll oech now, unfortunately. >> do you believe -- >> there was an article this week that talked about how you can surveil someone through their phones, through their -- certainly through their television sets. >> that sounds like a very incendiary allegation. what the president is saying -- what jim clapper has said on

other networks if not this one, he can say those organizations under his purview did not do this but that does not discount the rest of the obama administration. >> when you say incendiary accusation, it was the president -- >> i'm not inspector gadget. i don't believe people are using the microwave to spy on the trump campaign. however, i have -- i'm not in the job of having evidence. >> they made a statement, quickly walked it back regarding the microwave. then she ended that sound bite mash-up we just showed you by saying, i'm not in the job of having evidence. what job is she in, senator? >> this is the same person who said that she and the trump administration deals in alternative facts. alternative facts are lies. so, she's comparing a wiretap that requires a warrant. we have procedures for that from ways products can give information about us. so, those are two different

things. kellyanne conway, i wish she could just stick to the truth. wish she would stick to facts. again, alternative facts. that's what this administration pushes out all the time. that's this is why -- you know, we still haven't gotten to the bottom of the russian interference with our elections and the trump team's connections to the russian interests. you know, don't we care in our country if a foreign government tries to interfere with our elections? i would say the majority of people do care. but this constant barrage of tweets and distractions should not dissuade us, should not cause us to lose sight of what we neat to get to the bottom of. we need an independent investigation. >> are you saying you don't trust the house intelligence committee to do this in a bipartisan way? >> that's one group, the house intelligence committee, but, you know, they operate in a

different kind of conditions. no, i'd like to see a very public, transparent investigation into the russian interference with our elections. >> senator hirono, democrat of hawaii, thank you for joining me. it could be the biggest wallop of the winter season. 120 million people are in the eye of a nor'easter. we're tracking the storm next. what's the best way to get two servings of veggies? v8 or a powdered drink?

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a reminder. spring is just one week away. apparently winter is not ready to let go yet. but millions from washington, d.c. and boston are bracing for the possibility of an enormous winter storm. the biggest one of the season. on capitol hill, votes will not be taken in the house tomorrow due to flight cancellations. and they will reconvene on wednesday afternoon. the power of this system is already being felt in the northern plains and the midwest. north dakota covered in snow and bitter cold temperatures. in minnesota, a soccer match played in whiteout conditions. take a look at that. nbc meteorologist indra petersons has the forecast and tom costello is monitoring the travel conditions. indra, what can we expect? >> this is a major storm. especially very late in the season. take a look at chicago. they saw heavier snowfall this morning. still the threat for lake-effect sn as we go through the evening hours because it's been

such a warm season. then we'll really start to see things rile up. we'll be talking about that system developing. look how many of you guys are effected right now we we have warnings out for 121 million people for these watches, warnings for this big nor'easter impacting so many of you as we go throughout overnight hours. the biggest thing, even blizzard warnings went up this morning. we'll watch toward jersey, long island, coastal sections of connecticut. notice, just watches out for the boston area. the reason for that, the low keeps making its way closer to the shoreline so we have so see if this shifts farther to the east and west before we know exactly how much snowfall boston will be looking for and what criteria you'll be looking at. keep in mind, the low hasn't developed just yet. overnight we'll see it develop, see showers at commute time toward d.c. then it will make its way up the coastline as we go towards the overnight hours. 1 to 3 inches per hour will be possible. it will last throughout the day. boston getting in the mix as we

go towards noon. look what happens as we go towards the late commute. what are you looking at. boston on that border, rain, wintry mix or snow. so hard to forecast depending on where that low goes. that's how we'll know how much snowfall we're getting. we're catching it closely for you tonight. >> we'll hit a few feet here in new york city? >> a potential of 12 to 18 inches. >> that is quite a bit of snow. >> hope you're ready. >> i will be sleeping in my office tonight. now onto the airports. i imagine there are a lot of flight cancellations going to because of this. we'll find out just how many from our own tom costello, who's at jfk international airport here in new york. tom, what's the latest? >> reporter: hi, katy. cancellations building fast. we're now at about 4400, starting tonight and through tomorrow. that's the number right now. and the number is going to climb, of course, as we move into tomorrow. take a look at flightaware misery map. this is a sense of what's happening in the country. we'll watch closely chicago,

which is already having a rough day today because of the storm. let's move the curser over to boston and then down the coast. those are the airports that are already going to see the most cancellations, according to the tabulation. boston, newark, jfk, laguardia, down to philly, dwi and into washington, including reagan and dull les dulles. the most affected airline, southwest, jetblue, american, united and republic already canceling flights and waiving the change fees. if you're flying into or out of the mid-atlantic or northeast in the next few days, you may not be flying so you can wave the $200 change fee if you call the airport and say, i probably need to rebook. it's probably not just the i-95 corridor and airports up and down the spine, if you will. we also -- we're also likely to see buffalo, maybe even pittsburgh. we'll see how long the impact is on chicago.

it's going to be a rough couple of days. katy? no alternative facts here, all facts. aviation facts. that's the good thing about my beat. >> yeah, you got it easy, although you are also our bearer of bad news today. can you see in these images, the snow is already affecting a ton of people across this country. it will soon be here to the east coast. after the break we'll go back to politics. specifically, this health care bill. the gop is still split over the party's plan to replace obamacare. florida congressman francis rooney calls the bill a good start, but what will it take to get everybody on board? i'll ask the congressman next. here? (becky) i've seen such a change in einstein since he started eating beneful. the number one ingredient in it is beef. (einstein) the beef is fantastic! (becky) he's a very active dog. he never stops moving. he has enough energy to believe that he can jump high enough to catch a bird. it has real beef, grains, vegetables, and he loves it. well, we were coming for an interview...

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and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. the house bill to repeal and replace obamacare will provide you and your fellow citizens with more choices, far more choices, at lower costs. americans should pick the plan they want. now they'll be able to pick the plan they want. they'll be able to pick the doctor they want. they'll be able to do a lot of things that the other plan was supposed to give and it never gave. >> that was president trump sitting down with americans

saying they've been hurt by obamacare. calling them, quote, obamacare victims. we're also getting word that donald trump will be in senator paul's backyard on monday, in louisville, kentucky. rand paul has been one of the bill's chief critics. the photo op you just saw is part of the white house strategy to counter negative expression on the bill. the c. before will it shift the tone of the ongoing mark-up sessions? joining me from d.c., florida congressman, francis rooney, a republican who sits on the foreign affairs committee. you called this bill a good start. we're seeing this bill going through committee and not getting changed much. in your opinion, what does need to change in order to make it a better bill? an acceptable bill? >> sure. thank you for having me back on. there are a few considerations. you know, there are non-medicaid

expansion states, like florida, that need to betrted fairly in the reconfiguration of medicaid. and i think that's some things are being worked on there. the other thing is -- making absolutely sure that we do everything possible in the reconciliation process. that whatever we can accomplish through reconciliation, we do. we don't leave anything on the table. and that will get us as far down the road as possible with majority in the senate. >> do you believe it will get to simple majority reconciliation? it would have to go a long way if you're taking what is -- i mean, we haven't seen the cbo score yet. the cbo score could make it very difficult to get reconciliation done in the way you're proposing. >> i know we can get something done through reconciliation. the question is going to be whether we can get enough done to satisfy enough people that we really move the ball down the field. i'm not an expert on this reconciliation stuff.

i've only been in this game for a couple months, but i have heard that it's kind of a black box system and we just don't know what's going to come out of it. >> talk about the cbo specifically. the white house today in that press briefing a few minutes ago pushed back on the cbo. basically discrediting it in a pre-emptive attack. just in case the cbo comes out with a score that is not favorable for this plan. so, in that -- in that -- given all of that, congressman, what do you make of whether the cbo comes out and scores this well or potentially negatively? are you going to trust the cbo? should the american public trust the cbo? >> once it comes out i'll do the thing i always try to do in these circumstances, is a lot of research and get a lot of input. i read an article this morning that the results of obamacare were widely dispirit from what the cbo so we want to understand their assumptions. >> the obamacare cbo score was actually the most spot-on in

terms of nonpartisan assessments of that health care bill. it was still off, though, as you said. let's talk about what this plan looks like as of now. the republican plan. the kizer family foundation says the new plan would affect older and poorer americans living in high cost health care areas. hopefully we have a full screen. cutting medicaid will not help. it found according to the brookings institution, at least 15 million people will lose access. our team on first read says this promises republicans are making cannot be kept. so, given that, do you think this is a bill that you should be voting yes for? >> well, i believe in the free markets, katy. i think part of the problem with obamacare, it didn't respect the ability of markets and competition to drive costs down. you know, the bill provides for

a leverage multiplier of the base insurance cost for covering elderly people. if this thing works like it's supposed to, all their costs will go down and deductibles will go down because of competition. at the end of the day, they'll be better off. it provides for the tax equalization where people that don't have a company plan, like people in -- or a union plan or a governmental entity plan can also buy after-tax dollar insurance. and i like the idea of stimulating affiliated plans of small employers banding together to be able toexpand the use of group plans. that's onehing in this whol deal that seems to work well, is group insurance provided by employers and unions and the like. >> congressman rooney, republican from florida. you're always welcome back on my show. thank you. >> thank you. >> snoou as the gop tries to sell its health care plan, much has been made of a patient-focused model. for small business owners the uncertainty around the affordable care act is giving

many pause. jo ling kent takes a look. >> reporter: as republicans and democrats on capitol hill battle over repealing obamacare, even within their own parties, small businesses are caught in the confusion. >> as a small business owner, i am in a constant struggle to do right by my team within the constraints of our balance sheet. >> reporter: lawyer danielle vogel opened glenn's market in washington, d.c., five years ago. she now employs 95 workers and wants to continue to offer coverage to her employees. >> it's not as expensive as you would think and gave us mileage in being an attractive employer. >> reporter: she'll be forced to raise store prices. the anxiety mirrors the mood inside some insurance companies. health care providers are still awaiting specific details to plan next year's coverage. >> health plans are feeling a little better about 2018 and hope within the next four to six

weeks they can commit to continuing on next year. but we still need to resolve a couple of those uncertainties. >> reporter: the biggest uncertainty, how much the republicans' proposed plan will cost providers. >> we're all working a little bit in the dark here. that's highly unusual and makes it very difficult to have a fact-based consideration. >> reporter: the nonrtisan kaiser family foundation is focused on the 10 million americans who receive health care from the public marketplaces set up under obamacare. >> across the country, the marketplaces are still pretty stable in most places. but in pockets of the country there are real problems when people in the marketplaces don't have a plan currently that they can use. >> reporter: with major insurer h humana deciding to leave the exchanges, prrlt is facing a more complicated landscape. >> it's at a critical moment where a lot will depend on what the trump administration does or doesn't do in this kind of interim period when the

marketplaces are hanging in the balance. >> reporter: but for small business owners like vogel, there's no time to wait around for congress to make a final decision. >> we offered health care before we were required to. we will offer health care if we're no longer required to. but from a planning perspective, it is absolutely impossible to predict what our obligation is going to be. >> reporter: jo ling kent, nbc news. now, let's check in on today's microsoft pulse question. are you worried about losing your coverage under the house gop health care plan? so far, 98% of you say, yes, you are worried. there's still time to cast your vote at pulse.msnbc.com. secretary of state rex tillerson is heading out on his first foreign trip. he's going to asia this week on a hunt for new options for dealing with north korea's nuclear threat. i'll speak to former ambassador to china, max baucus next.

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president trump is expected to welcome chinese president xi jing ping at mar-a-lago next month. secretary of state rex tillerson will lay the groundwork for this meeting while in asia this week. the biggest question, hanging over the secretary's trip, how will the u.s. help south korea's military without offending china's long-standing relationship with north korea?

>> these are very clearly defensive measures we're taking in response to an increasingly worrying, concerning threat from north korea. china understands that threat. >> joining me now, former montana senator, max baucus, a democrat who served as u.s. ambassador to china under president obama. ambassador, thank you for joining me. let's get right into this threat of north korea and what is going on right now. foreignpolicy.com had a sobering read over the weekend that said, north korea is not testing their missiles and their missile capability, they are practicing it. what sort of threat is north korea right now and how important does it make this meeting between donald trump and xi jinping. >> kim jong-un has to be stopped one way or ather it's up to the collective interest of the united states,

south korea, japan, even china to stop him. frankly, i think this is a great opportunity for secretary tillerson. he's got a couple things to do. one, he's got to show that he is the man. i mean, he is the person in charge in developing u.s. foreign policy with the president. chinese have read reports in the u.s., they wonder is secretary tillerson solid, is he in the background really the man that will determine policy. this is an opportunity for him to show he is, in fact, the person. second -- go ahead. >> i was going to say secretary tillerson is laying the groundwork and president trump's meeting with jinping will take that further? >> i'm saying tillerson is our secretary of state. the chinese will be watching him very closely, see what kind of man he is, see someone they respect and like, or is he somebody that's going to be pushed on the sideline so that they, the chinese, don't have to deal as much with him. it's very important for him,

secretary tillerson, to show that he is actually the person, the primary advocate of u.s. foreign policy. and the united states is going to focus more on china than it has in the past. third, we'll be much more strategic with china. that's secretary tillerson's strength. he's a strategist. he thinks long term. exxonmobilmade decisions that affected his company 10, 15 years out. we have to do more of that with respect to china. >> gwynn your experience, what is the one thing, one piece of advice you would give to president trump ahead of his meeting with xi jinping of china? >> president xi is no fool. he's very smart. he spent a long time -- he cannot be pushed around. one bit of advice would be, respect china. set up a relationship where each of us respects each other and each knows that neither can bully the other or the other can push the other around. establish that relationship and make it a long conversation, meet for hours alone, so they

start to understand each other. but understand this is a matter of mutual respect. we're not going to let china push us just as recognizing choin is not going to let us push them. >> in this meeting between the president and the chinese leader, is there a way that donald trump can get him on america's side in pushing back against north carolina, pushing back against the nuclear threat that it poses? >> well, identify been to a lot of these summits. president xi, president obama. at these summit each president gives stock positions and speech, almost statements. i would like to see the two of them kind of ask questions of each other. more relaxed. figure out how they -- how they understand each other better. only then will we be better to understand the premises, the assumpti behind some of the

statements that president chi ma xi has to do. that's what president obama has to do -- president trump has to do. >> don't worry, i had that messup a little while ago. thank you very much. that wraps things up for me at this hour. can you catch me at 5:00 today. kate snow picks things up. >> happy monday. good to see you. we're keeping an eye on the latest from the white house right now, where at any moment president trump is expected to meet with his cabinet for the very first time. we're expecting video of that meeting very soon. we'll bring that to you just as soon as it comes in. we also just heard press secretary sean spicer attempt to clarify president trump's tweet on wiretapping accusations, as the house intelligence committee is waiting to hear from the justice department at this hoir about those claims. we'll tell you what the press secretary just said and the latest from capitol hill in a moment. we're also keeping a close eye on that p