secretary says he stands by. those claims that president obama ordered trump tower to be wiretapped prior to the election. even with now top members of the senate intelligence committee saying they have seen no they have seen no indication that surveillance happened. we will have more from throughout the day. >> hallie jackson, thank you for that report. tom price meets with his old colleagues in the house to try to save the health care bill. >> that does it for us on this friday. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ does the president believe that former president barack obama committed a felony? >> i think the president's tweets speak for themselves. >> all right. explain this to me like i'm a 2-year-old. there is an element of this thing i cannot get through my thick head. >> nothing he is walking anything back or forgetting. >> are we clear? >> when i say wiretap those things ewords are in quote. >> huh? >> you have a press secretary

going like this, air quotes, air quotes. >> i'm sorry! >> what we not here is failure to communicate. >> the president is a neophyte to politics. >> i can't believe i'm saying i'm a politician but i guess that is what i am now. >> a lot of the things that he says, you guys, sometimes, take literally. >> there was an article. i think they used that exact term. >> sometimes he doesn't have 27 lawyers and staff looking at what he does. >> we will be submitting things before the committee very soon. >> are you going to take the tweets literally and, if you are, then, clearly, the president was wrong. >> he feels very confident that we will ultimately come of this. we will vindicate him. >> the people we talk to doesn't think there was actual tap of trump tower. >> just remember. it's not a lie if you believe it! >> that's it. seinfeld right there.

when you although the intel committees you have lost the fight but not for this white house which is trippling down on the president's executive tweet storm as his own party faces a tough climb on the health care and the budget. coming up we talk to somebody who knows these issues. civil via burwell ran the health and human services and joins us with her perspective coming up. also congressman tom cole and dave bratt and kevin brady will join the conversation this morning. welcome to "morning joe." it really is friday, right? are we good? >> guaranteed. >> it's friday, march 17th. i do not put that in quotes. it is actually friday. joe is wrapping up his family vacation. he'll be back on monday morning. with us today is senior political analyst for nbc news be and msnbc mark halpern. donny deutsche is with us. political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore and

kasie hunt is in washington. a great group. >> she is the only one wearing a hint of green on st. patrick's day! >> you guys! >> she is so cute. >> i have a small hint of green on this tie. >> that doesn't do it, nick. >> i messed up. i'm just glad i know the day of the week at this point. i've had kind of a long one. this morning, the white house is standing by president trump's claims of being wiretapped by a former president obama, despite leaders of the senate intelligence committee saying there is no evidence of this. in a joint statement, the top republican and democrat on the intel committee senators richard burr and mark warner rebuked the president's claim writing the information available to us we see no indications that trump tower was the subject of surveillance by any element of the united states government either before or after election day 2016. and here is house speaker paul

ryan. >> in the broadest sense of the definition, is there any evidence to back up the president's air quote claim to this point? >> i don't know what you want me to add to this, chuck. i've said this pretty much a few days since i've gotten these briefings. the chairman and the ranking members on both committees we have not seen any evidence. i have seen no evidence of wiretapping as you say or a court order or anything like that. i'll just leave it at that. i have nothing to say other than that. >> he doesn't want anything to do with it at all. it wasn't just the air claim. it was several tweets that made unequivocal statements about barack obama committing a felony but the white house is not backing down but doubling down. during yesterday's press briefing, press secretary sean spicer sent seven minutes leading through a list of reports having to do with

possible surveillance of the president and, at times, sparred with reporters over the president's claims. >> the president has been very clear when he talked about this and he talked about it last night. we talked about wiretapping he meant surveillance. there have been incidents that have occurred. >> are you saying that the president still stands by his allegation that president obama ordered wiretapping or surveillance of trump tower, despite the fact that the senate intelligence committee says they see no indication that it happened? does the president still stand by the allegation? >> he stands by it but you're mischaracterizing what happened today. he talked about it, he said that he meant it. he put it in quotes. it was very broad. and so that is what he meant by the use of the term. >> so was it phone tapping? >> no. it was surveillance. i think we covered this, like, ten times. >> this accusation is so disturbing because you see reporters there trying to very hard to do their job and take this seriously day after day.

and i've heard from the inside, days after this happened, that he knows he shouldn't have done this and he kind of shrugged it off. so everyone is wasting a lot of very valuable time in washington trying to back up the president's credibility when even the president, himself, mark halpern, reportedly knows that this was a big boo-boo. >> speaker ryan's weekly press conference yesterday, i was there and he wanted to talk about health care and several questions were asking him once again, as chuck, did what do you make of the president of the united states making this accusation against his predecessor? i now believe sort of conventional wisdom saying this is hurting the agenda. i'm not sure it is. i think the distraction may be allowing them undercover to work on health care without as much focus on that fight. >> where is the -- >> he should take it back. he should stop letting it be an issue but i'm not sure it's hurting them as much as some people say. >> where is the rage? if a seventh grader sent out on

social media. >> bullying. >> a text that said something oh, that other student cheated, they would be expelled. the president not only lies but maliciously lies. >> the system is holding him -- >> no. >> republicans of -- >> no. where is the end? is it just a oops, britney spears oops, i did it again? what is the repercussions? he lies with malicious intent, whether it was to slam islam because there are people dancing on roofs, whether to slam a president that he is an alien. he lies with malicious intent and we just move on. there needs to be rage about this. >> the argument with sean spicer in the white house made hinges on air quotes. donald trump said it himself two nights ago to tucker. he said i wrote it in air quotes and say again what i said yesterday. the tweet from march 4th reads, i bet a good large could make a great case out of the fact that

president obama was tapping my phones in october. no air quotes. >> i better good lawyer could make a great case that is defamation. >> yes, perhaps. but what else do you need now? now you have paul ryan, devin nunez, the chair of the house intel committee, senator richard burr, a republican, as well as devin nunez, republican richard burr and chairman of the senate intel committee saying this doesn't happen. what else do you want? are you defaming them too? are they knot renot reliable so? where are you going now? >> this comes back about if people who voted for trump start feeling like they are not going to get what he promised and i think we have a couple of different ways of showing you this morning through the budget and the health care plan where we are going to be completely cut out as opposed to finally brought in. i think this does ultimately hurt because this is such a big lie. so here is paul ryan, again, trying to deal with this, i guess. take a look. >> are you concerned, though,

that this eats away at the president's own credibility when he has got to sell the country on a health care plan? sell the country on a budget that is going to polarize the two political parties? if he is not credible on this, how is he going to be credible selling these important proposals to you? >> look. i'll say what i've said for months now. it's going to be an unconventional presidency. twitter is new. twitter and facebook and all of these things. we as americans in this society haven't fully processed this new system we have and the president is, you know, he is going to be -- >> make things up? >> it's going to be an unconventional presidency. i'm not going to justify and defend every tweak out there. heck, 20 a days for all i know. i don't actually pay that much attention to it. i'm here in congress focusing on my job trying to get things done. >> your advice simply is ignore him at some point? we are to ignore some things the president says? >> no. you're putting words in my mouth, chuck. i just tell you all i know is i have not seen any evidence of

this. i don't have anything else more to add. >> a horrible position for republicans to be in while they are trying to do their job. at some point a decision has to be made on the part of republicans as to where they are going to land on this president and there are ways to deal with situation like this if they get out of hand. if lying becomes pervasive within the white house and starts to creep into all of the executive branches, it's not something that ends well for the president of the united states. >> that interview with paul ryan, chuck did a great job. i want to scream at the tv because he started to blame the new world of facebook and twitter. that was the issue. we don't have to manage facebook. it's just he seemed like such a coward up there. why can't one republican get up there and say i support our president but this is absolutely wrong. >> that is john mccain. by the way, mitch mcconnell has been a hero. john mccain and mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham, i'm saying these words, heroes on this and

ben sasse as well and my world is completely upside down because these guys i truly respect and honor for their ability to speak truth to power even fountain power is in their party. >> do they use the word lie? we have to stop dancing around that word. >> i'm very satisfied with what those gentlemen are trying to do to keep the respect of the office intact. we have the budget now that really kind of gives us sense of president trump's vision. it adds billions to defense spending while slashing everything from the state department to the department of education, meals on wheels p.m. mick mulvaney faced really tough questions throughout the day yesterday for such deep cuts in the budget. >> people see some of these numbers like the f-35 fighter, for example, cost 100 million or so to build one of those. and, at the same time, they see

repealing after-school programs. i know some of that is in charter programs or school choice. do we need another f-35 and not have after-school programs? >> don't get me wrong. there is waste in the defense department as well. the president is up set about that and tasked general mattis to work on deficiencies in the defense department. when you look at the places that will loose spending one of the questions we asked can we really continue to ask a coal miner in west virginia or a single mom in detroit to pay for these programs is in the answer is no. we can ask them to pay for defense and we will but not for the corporation of public broadcast broadcasting. you know that meals on wheels is not a federal program and part of that block grants that we give to the states. have been many states make the decision to use that money on meals on wheels. we spend 150 billion dollars on those programs since the 1970s. these are -- they have been identified as programs since, i believe, the first -- actually the second bush administration as ones that were just not showing any results.

that -- we can't do that any more. we with can't spend money on programs just because they sound good and great, meals on wheels sounds great. i can't defend that any more. we cannot defend that any more. we we are 20 trillion dollars in debt and spend it on programs but not on this. >> are you talking about programs that do or don't work. a program call shine in rural counties of pennsylvania that p provide after-school educational programs which happened to propel president trump to the white house. i'm curious what you say to those americans in the community where they tell me 800 children who need is most will not be provided in those communities. >> let's talk about after-school programs generally. they are supposed to be educational programs, right? supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school. there is no evidence that they

are doing that. no demonstrable evidence to show they are doing better in school. when we took your money from you to say, look. we are spending it on after-school program and the way we justified these programs will help kids do better in school and get better jobs. >> you describe this as a hard power budget but is it also a hard-hearted budget? >> i don't think so. i think it's probably one of the most compassionate things we can do. >> stopping programs to help the elderly? >> you're focusing on half of the program. you're focusing on recipients of the money. we are trying to focus on the recipients of the money and people who give us the money in the first place. i think it's compassionate to say we are asking you for your hard-earned money any more. single mom of two in detroit, okay? give us your money. we are not going to do that any more unless we can -- please let me finish. unless we can guarantee to you that that money is actually to be used in a proper function. i think that is about as compassion as you can get. >> so it's compassionate because

it's not proven that feeding children at school makes them do better in school so it's better if they go hungry? that is compassionate? even some of the president's longtime loyalists have had a difficult time agreeing with some of the cuts here. what does this mean about the president's agenda and his corps? here is the first congressman to support his campaign. chris collins speaking last night. >> my mother-in-law, prior to her passing on, she had meals on wheels at her apartment five days a week. it's not seven days a week. but they bring that extra meal for on the weekends. >> leave it over there. >> and it was her way also to know she was safe. she lived alone. this is the president's budget. i'm not sure where the details came from but i can pretty much assure america the congressional budget and when we get into appropriations, meals on wheels is a wonderful program. it is one i would never -- >> that's good here. >> -- vote to cut even one dollar.

>> kasie hunt, what are you hearing on capitol hill how this budget feels and how they are going to try and explain this? >> look. i think the bottom line is that i don't think that this goes anywhere in congress. partly because of what you just saw there. a lot of these cuts, they are to places that, you know, i think this is going to be the real question. these cuts will disproportionately affect the rule areas that voted overwhelmingly for president trump and that, of course, is going to be what with halt them in congress because there are, you know, members, representatives who will stand up to the corporation of public broadcasting is another one and places like that affect maine. there are people standing up for these programs in congress. i do think the question is going to be how do trump supporters perceive what is he trying to do? do they believe the way the president is framing this? he is trying to help me and not take my tax dollars or do they start to feel like he has actually turned on them? i see no evidence so far that that is how people are feeling. i think that is what it would take to kind of reverse the

political tide here. >> nick, to you in a second but i want to read through the budget items here. cedr scedric richmond said it's a moral documents that reveals your priorities. the details of president trump's proposed budget plan combined with the republican bill to repeal and replace the health care act. here is what that picture is starting to look like. budget winners. defense up 10%. veterans affairs up nearly 6%. homeland security up nearly 7%. some of the losers. the epa down nearly 32%. the state department down 29%. health and human services cut by 16%. in addition, 62 programs will be eliminated completely including the striving readers comprehensive literacy program and home energy assistance program and wildlife refuge fund. the winners of the health care plan are the young and healthy

who should find cheaper health programs. elderly see their premiums increase and hospitals which may have to provide more uncompensated care. so, nick, you're a numbers guy. you look at all of this stuff closely. is there a chance what we are seeing on the page right now actually becomes the budget of the united states or is this just a starting point for negotiation? >> zero chance. it's a starting point for negotiation. it's kind after leverage point. but it's also a moral document for president trump. i think is shows what his gamble is, which is that if you unleash an industry, unleash coal, get rid of the epa or ratchet it back, build the pentagon back up, you'll see jobs in these communities without the economic development grants and the need for some of the local programs. what is interesting, though, is to hear them talk about the need to cut federal spending. this budget does not really cut federal spending.

it doesn't touch the biggest drivers of federal spending in the deficit which are entitlements. it take these smaller programs for the poor and cuts them out and hands that money over to the pentagon, which is the most wasteful department probably in the government, but leaves a loan that big drivers of federal spending which is a strange thing for an administration talking so much about cutting federal spending. >> nick, that is such an important point. with all of the talk and front page stories this stuff is important and affects people's lives. in the big picture we are tinkerering around the edges here. most of that spend comes from mandatory spending and donald trump says he doesn't want to touch medicaid or ocesocial security. look. to some extent this kind of reminds me of the campaign that

he ran which is i'll protect the entitlements for the middle class, i'll boost pentagon spending, and i'll cut the rest of it and i'll get rid of the regulation. >> yeah. so joe weighed in with his thoughts on the proposed budget and he put out a series of tweets. i think this is probably a good learning tool for some people. >> and a good thing to do while on vacation. >> this is from the ski lift, actually. all right. let's look at these. this is more of the same washington idiocy. slash spending that cripples investments in our country. entitlemen entitlements. all cuts come from 15% of the budget. joe continues. entitlements explode. pentagon spending explodes. interest on the debt explodes. their growth is unsustainable and untouched by this budget. but funding for schools, roads,

cancer research, medical breakthroughs, safeguards for clean drinking water and clean air and food safety, all cut. when will washington do its job and save social security and medicaid and improve schools and invest in rnd and build roads and balance the budget? that won't happen without real entitlement reform. rational pentagospending and growing parts of the budget that would yield big results. so a very respectful note to djt. that is how you tweet. you use facts and you stick to the issues. and you don't defame anybody. >> i only have one thing to add. going back, it's interesting. mike barnicle during the campaign said one thing about the president-elect there doesn't seem to be any empathy there and there is none of that and top of idiocy, there is no soul in there. and it's also a president who what only bets on the present

day. i don't think this guy gives a damn what he leaves in his wake years from now when you look at some of the things such as even epa, but it's basically, boy, if i could just move numbers over 24 months, regardless of the repercussio repercussions, i get the score. >> i think that is actually president bannon that you're worried about there, because there are more concerns about his lack of empathy, his lifestyle, his beliefs, and his ideology that backup what you're saying. i've known donald trump for 15 years. you've known him for a long time. have you seen him be empathetic? i have. have you seen him be a kind person? i have. i think he is capable -- >> the buck stops. >> i think he is capable of doing this which worries me that the weakness in this president may lie in the fact that he's allowing someone else to sort of pull the strings here and he is being taken advantage of in a way that i am stunned. >> there is no question that the defense increases and homeland

security increases are true to what he talked about during the campaign. >> sure. >> i don't get politically what they get out of -- >> in a brute concept. >> it will never become law and picks fights with a lot of republicans and doesn't do anything to address the deficit as joe's tweets point out. question why they take this on when they are not going to pass and don't do anything for the deficit. >> joe is exactly right. >> nailed it. >> his point -- >> that is how you tweet. >> for all of these self-described budget hawks this is not how you cut a budget by eliminating programs that are popular to a lot of people that make you look like a villain to the people portrayed on the left. you do something about the deficit. still ahead on "morning joe," she ran the department dutiof budget. sylvia burwell will be our

guest. tom cole, david brat, kevin brady will join our conversation. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on another -- >> i don't want to talk about that. >> there is another storm coming? >> just a little one for most of us. >> come on, bill, get it together, will you? >> with the what? >> the last one -- >> it's just a little nuisance type thing. >> nuisance? >> kind of like you, bill. >> exactly. >> sort of like bill karins? >> a little nuisance. before that i have to show you these pictures in sicily mt. etna. bbc reporting was on the mountain when the eruption took place and explosions all over the place because the hot lava was falling into the snow and that just caused -- you can see the popping there. no one was injured but very interesting times there. you need to watch the whole video on line. it's pretty crazy. a snow event. 19 in pittsburgh and 1 to 2 inches from areas of wisconsin through michigan.

detroit will get snow late today. this is march so the roads may just be wet. a lot of accumulations on the car tops or the snow pack. gras grassy surfaces. 1 to 3 inches for this area. if you're out there on long island or cape cod you have a chance of getting extra so pay attention to the forecast. that is the miserable stuff for st. paddy's day. all weekend long, denver up to 80 on saturday! dallas at 83! this is kind of like the march no fair forecast where everyone in the northeast and the great lakes are struggling even to sunday. still chilly and cold and you're worrying about sunburns from san antonio to dallas. chicago and boston, not the warmest but at least clear size. should be a fantastic parade. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. so tell us your big idea for getting the whole country booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom...

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♪ >> let me give you the bad news! we don't like bad news, right? i don't want to hear it. i'll turn it into good. but let me give you the bad, the sad news. >> president trump doesn't even drink. >> he is a tea totaler. >> the circus on showtime is back this sunday and it's good. we have a preview clip for you to set it up while all of washington was waiting for the congressional budget office to release its report scoring the republicans american health care act, co-host mark halpern and

mark mckinnon went to the cbo offices look for the answers. >> in the history of washington how many people have staked out the cbo? >> i think this is the first. >> breakfast and now lunch. do they serve dinner here? cb -- cd -- cbo. you know what we are like? we are like lucy on peanuts. open for business. lunch rush is beginning. 11:13. we are a little early. we are open for business. >> you know what we can do? ba being to my old tricks. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas!. let's deliver them some pizzas! debra, how is it going? these are for you. slices for the hardest working on the things. we were watching cnn down there. everyone is waiting. everyone is waiting.

this is it. here is a vegetarian one. >> okay. >> and there is a bunch of meat ones. we will be downstairs. let us know. >> all right. thank you. >> that is a classic halpern move. the pizza delivery is like your closing move, isn't it? >> everyone was talking about the cbo. but they weren't defending their -- they still haven't so we want to say you're about to issue these big numbers. who is doing the report and what are their credentials and tell us how you do it. they were very nice. >> you never got to talk to anybody or we have to wait to find out? >> the big reveal is sunday night. suffice it to say the cbo is letting their report do the talking but we spent a lot of time over there. >> i don't want to blow the blelead but murray in a convenient v visor. >> how is the food in the cbo cafeter cafeteria? >> exemption. they serve dinner but we had breakfast and lunch there. cbo had a huge impact this week

on the health care board and gave democrats a huge talking point. yet this is a wing of congress that speaks through the numbers and i still don't know who did the report. still don't know exactly what they base their assumptions on but no question they dominated part of the week. >> wash more of mark halpern sitting rnaround the cafeteria, watch "the circus" sunday night. >> i'm having a viewing party with a bunch of victoria models to watch "the circus." >> they were going to be over any way. >> the latest on president trump's vow to fight the court orders blocking his revised travel ban. famed harvard law professor alan de dershowitz is offering him advice and that is "stop talking!"

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president trump is vowing to fight the court orders blocking his revised travel ban.

and he is getting some legal advice from famed harvard law professor alan dershowitz. here is the advice. stop talking. stop talking. this, after federal judges in hawaii and maryland used the president's own words to make their case. despite a change in language, the order still amounts to a muslim ban. the judge in hawaii citing the trump campaign in his rulings quoting, stayed there is nothing veiled about this press release in which the president called for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. the judge also cited rudy giuliani's televised remarks that the president asked him to fine a way to ban muslims as well as remarks from white house adviser steven miller that the revised ban is the same basic policy as the first order that was blocked. then there were these remarks from the president, himself, the other night. >> this is a watered-down

version of the first one. this is a watered-down version and let me tell you something. i think we ought to go back to the first one and go all the way which is what i wanted to do in the first place. >> that is just one more statement that president trump has made that will support the fact that really this supposedly neutral travel ban that is in his executive order is really just a pretext to discriminate against people based upon their nation of origin or against their religion. >> federal law that i read out clearly gives the president the authority. this is what we argued during the first one. i think for a judge to ignore that statute and talk about tweets or interpreting something that happened during the campaign trail is not in keeping with how they are supposed to interpret the law. we tailor that additional -- that second executive order to imply with the judge's order. i think so to go back now and to say well, based on how the first order was conceived, makes absolutely no sense. >> so, sean, that sound bite we

showed saying he wants to make it even better than the first one and go all the way, that was two days ago. >> i railed earlier in the show there is no accountability to his words. guess what. >> there is. my hope for president trump is that he keeps talking. come on. the justice department plans to appeal and may ask the court to let the ban take place while it plays out. keep talking. if he keeps talking like that, could that impact and perhaps force what the courts would like to force, the issue the the courts would like to force on the ban? >> the justice department argued and a lot of lawyers agreed you can't take a politician statements. you have to let the order speak for itself. >> but he is president now. >> right. clearly they now see they are running into courts that take his words literally. >> he only wants a muslim ban when is he speaking to his base?

>> or when he -- >> deeply un-american when he is speaking to his base? >> this is a real challenge. this is they learned in the first order it just takes one federal judge to issue an order and as long as the supreme court is tied 4-4 they can be tied up forever in this and the more he talks, as you said, the more he creates a problem for himself, even this they if i that is not the right standard for a judge to use. two judges are using that standard. >> a lot of legal experts including jonathan turley on this show yesterday who doesn't necessarily support the ban you're supposed to rule as a judge on what the order says on the letter of the bill, on the letter of the law. and not on previous statements that you're interpreting as having some impact on the intent of the law. >> right. look. i think sean spicer could have a point here and it could prove true at the appellate level these orders will get struck down. these judges could be showboating. no now, it is creating a quagmire for them. this order was a big campaign promise and they rushed into it saying it was a huge priority,

that the nation security was dependent on them getting it done quickly. and now it's going to be stuck in the courts for a very long time. of course, there is actually a good chance it would have been in the courts for a long time kind of regardless. but, you know, again, tweet less and smile more. it's hard to imagine this presidency of twitter, you know, be didn't exist. imagine how different it would be if social media rah was not there for the president to kind of wing all the time on. coming up, she didn't just win approval to run the white house budget office, she was confirmed 96-0. former omb director sylvia burwell will be a guest on "morning joe." "morning joe" is coming back. looking for clear answers for your retirement plan?

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trump also visited michigan and posed for a photo with the state's governor but take a look and listen to how he greeted

him. watch this. >> good morning. even though you didn't endorse me. i'll never forget that. >> owe my gosh. did that happen? >> a lot of truth in that. >> wow. >> so great. >> sore winner. >> still ahead this morning, we have much more on which programs are facing deep cuts from the president's budget. >> trimmed by nearly 6 billion dollars. dr. robert clark says that would devastate his breast cancer research. >> if you have 1 in 8 women getting breast cancer in their lifetime you can imagine how many people are affected. families and communities are affected. >> peter alexander will join us from the white house with his latest reporting. later, republican dave brat knocked out one of his own party's top leaders and now trying to do the same thing with the gop health care plan and he explains his opposition to the

trump/ryan proposal straight ahead on "morning joe." a millie dresselhaus doll! happy birthday, sweetie! oh, millies. trick or treat! . ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars? ♪ yasss queen! what if millie dresselhaus, the first woman to win the national medal of science in engineering, were as famous as any celebrity? [millie dresselhaus was seen having lunch today...] ♪ [...rumors of the new discovery...] what if we lived in a world like that? (crowd applauding) ♪ we know a place

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and we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. it's your retirement. know where you stand. i think we are going to have negotiation but you have to understand we only have 52. we only have two votes. we have a two-vote margin. and to get 52 people is very hard. the democrats are always going to vote against us. it's been simmering for years. the hatred has been there for years and not just with me.

the hatred has been there for years. if we had the greatest health care bill ever in history and we needed eight votes from the democrats to get us up to the number you would need, they wouldn't vote for it. it's a very selfish thing. they are doing a very, very bad disservice to the country. >> bloomberg analysis showed that counties that voted for you, middle class and working class counties, would do far less well under this well than the counties who voted for hillary, the more affluent county. >> i know. >> is it consistent with the message of the last election? >> a lot of things are not consistent. these have have to be negotiated. go to senate and see what happens in the senate. right now five or six senators and talking about republicans because we are not to get one democrat to vote for it. we will take care of our people or i'm not signing it. >> i'm confused. he didn't answer that question, did he? >> kasie hunt, where does this stand in the house, first of all, is it dead on arrival? >> if he is assuming it's passed

the house i think one step too far. they have been doing the whip counts and don't have the 216 votes in the house at the moment. the speaker of the health and human service secretary is up on the hill today. they are trying to walk a fine line between the moderates and conservatives but if they do what the conservatives want it's changes to medicaid and how quickly those things go into effect. you lose a bunch of moderates on the other side. the speaker really changed his tune this week. he had said, look. this is the bill. take it or leave it. this is your one shot. and then they started counting the votes and said, okay, maybe we should talk some more about this before we try to push it through. and that is before you even get to the senate. the president clearly has been read in by senator mcconnell and others saying that five to six number is what i'm hearing as well. >> what happens if it doesn't make it through the house? >> look. i think that would be a real body blow for this. especially considering the way they have framed what this bill

means. the speaker has kind of gone out on this limb and said this is our one shot. i would be really surprised if they put a bill on the floor if they knew that it couldn't pass. maybe they would if they knew they were within a handful of votes and they just have to see what might happen. but if this were to go down on the floor it would be very unusual and pretty spectacular failure, i think. >> donny deutsche, what about the fact he was going to help all of his people? >> you know what a win for trump is? that no bill gets through and he has to own it and no way the math ads up unless you take health care away from the 24 million people or people's rates stay high. so if i am him and i'm just from a pure political point of view i would love two years from now and i tried, i push those damn democrats wouldn't let me do it and the democrats still own it. whoever owns health care loses. >> yeah. >> donald trump is right about the math of it. he is not going to get a democratic vote in the senate. let's talk about the senate.

we have heard from four senators. republican senators who said they can't vote for it because it pulls back medicaid expansion after two years and susan collins another republican senator said i can't vote for it in its current form. it has to change and we have the numbers showing it will not pass the senate. >> well, look. the senators are pulling it left and the house republicans are pulling it right and that is the problem. you can't square those two things. i think if it doesn't pass the house and fails entirely, it's a catastrophe for the house but also for his presidency. >> i disagree. the day he owns this, the day he disappoints a big part of his base, period. we all know what is in that plan an what is in that plan a lot of people losing their health care insurance. you can't lower the rates. somebody is paying for those people. >> his whole agenda a huge failure in the first part of your term is hard to recover from that and do more things that are ambitious. bill clinton hasn't recovered

from his first failure in his first term. it's hard to do it if you have -- >> kasie hunt, thank you so much. thank you for getting up way too early this morning. by the way, "the washington post" is going to have to excuse their reporters for being late to work this morning. their pulitzer prize winners bob woodward and eugene robinson join us next on "morning joe." we are coming back in 90 seconds. ♪ ♪ everyone deserves attention, whether you've saved a lot or just a little. at pnc investments, we believe you're more than just a number. so we provide personal financial advice for every retirement investor.

dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia

what do you read? what do you watch? >> well, you know, i love to read. i'm actually looking at a book. i'm reading a book and trying to get started and every time i start a half a page i get a phone call there is some emergency, that or that. we are going to see the home of andrea jackson today in tennessee and i'm reading a book on andrew jackson. i love to read. i don't get to read very much because i'm working very hard on lots of different things, including getting costs down. the costs of our country are out of control. but we have a lot of great things happening. we have a lot of tremendous things happening. >> wow. what does that remind you of? he doesn't -- he didn't have -- >> a page or two at a time is a hard way to get through a book. it's a long book. >> i wonder if he is reading jon meacham's book on andrew jackson? >> maybe that is the book he is reading. >> he is looking at it. >> i will defend him, as i rarely do. he is running the country and probably not a lot of time to read but clearly he didn't have a name of the book at hand but i

give him a pass on that. you don't have time to read if you're running this great republic of ours. >> keep the book in the bathroom! >> top of the hour now. it's friday. it is friday! march 17th. become to "morning joe." joe is wrapping up his family vacation but tweeting from the ski lift. we will be showing you that in a moment. he'll be back monday morning. with us is donny deutsche and political writer for "the new york times" nicholas confessore and joining the conversation two guys who are going to be late for work. bob woodward and eugene robinson. great to have you both this morning. thank you very much for coming in. this morning, the white house is standing by president trump's claims of being wiretapped by former president obama, despite leaders of the senate intelligence committee saying there is no evidence. that is about as good as it gets

on the no evidence front. in a joint statement, the top republican and democrat of the intel committee senators richard burr and mark warner rebuked the president's claim writing, based on the information available to us, we see no indications that trump tower was the subject of surveillance by any element of the united states government either before or after election day 2016. if that statement is true, the one we just put up on the screen, then the president lied, correct? >> this is a colossal waste of time is what it is, this entire debate. >> is it important? >> he made it up. >> is it a waste of time to kind of -- >> no, no, no. i'm just saying, like, it's amazing we have gone down this rabbit hole. >> bob woodward, is this important to be covering at this point? is this a waste of time? what does this tell us? >> it's something we have got to find out about.

you're quite right. there is no evidence, no one has suggested any specific piece of evidence, but let's remember the heads of the intelligence committee, the cia director, those of us in the media have been wrong about lots of things that are intelligence, like weapons of mass destruction in iraq that turned out to not exist. on this, you have to be suspicious. i would not agree with you, mika, that you say at this point, trump lied. >> no, no, no. i just said if that statement turns out to be true by the head of the intel committee, if it turns out to be true, then the president lied. >> well, no. the question is what was the basis for this? >> right. >> and as you look at it, as a matter to make an inquiry into, as i would. >> yeah. >> the case is not closed.

>> okay. >> i've had people -- were you up at trump tower after the campaign or at any time? i visited there in january. >> yeah. >> and there were all kinds of strange things going on, all kinds of private security guards, people. any way. i'm just saying let's look at it. i would not close the case at this point. at the same time, i don't know why we are spending time on this or why trump is spending time on this. >> that's what i think is the bigger question. >> it is. >> we are just trying to understand what he was saying. i was up at trump tower days after the election and you know what? there were lots of immediate changes to the tower. lots of people outside the front door of the private residence. so i guess there are -- >> eugene, it's donny. in the first hour, my meds were

a little off and i was getting a little crazy what in my mind is clearly a lie. but what is the ending to this? where is there accountability? our president has literally said his predecessor was a felon, an outright lie he made up and we all know it. help me, as a pulitzer prize winner, as a wise man, do we take the streets? what do we do about this? >> well, you know, obviously, presidents have lied before, right? a string of presidents lied to us about vietnam. richard nixon lied to us about certain subject that bob woodward knows a lot about. so that, in and of itself, is not new. the manner of this lie and the nature of this lie, i do believe it's a lie. i believe it's something that he sort of picked up from listening to sean hannity and brett bair and i don't think he had read

that "the new york times" story that is being referenced now, before he said it. he blurted it out and with no evidence, i believe. and i don't think we ever had anything like quite this. since thgis is a president who does not want to admit a mistake or an error, and certainly not eager to admit a lie, i think he will continue to stonewall and he'll continue to send poor sean spicer out to try to defend something that is very hard to defend. and i think people will keep asking about it because this is a serious charge. >> that lead us to our next sound bite, eugene robinson. the white house not backing down. during yesterday's press briefing, sean spicer sent more than seven minutes leading through a list of reports in the media having to do with possible surveillance of the president. at times, spicer sparred with reporters over the president's claims.

>> the president has been very clear when he talked about this and he talked about it last night. we talked about wiretapping he meant surveillance. there have been incidents that have occurred. >> are you saying that the president still stands by his allegation that president obama ordered wiretapping or surveillance of trump tower, despite the fact that the senate intelligence committee says they see no indication that it happened? does the president still stand by the allegation? >> he stands by it but you're mischaracterizing what happened today. look. he was very clear about this last night. he talked about it, he said that he meant it. he put it in quotes. it was very broad. and so that is what he meant by the use of the term. >> so was it phone tapping? >> no. it was surveillance. i think we covered this, like, ten times. >> he did say donald trump in the march 4th tweet explicitly it was a wiretap ordered by president obama. public hearings will be held on monday. fbi director james comey expected to testify there. lawmakers say he will be questioned about the president's wiretap claim. >> before we go to the budget, just right there, sean spicer is

not telling the truth about the tweets and he is saying that wiretapping means overall surveillance. while there were other tweets that this president put out on saturday morning that specifically accused president obama of wiretapping trump tower. are we all correct? >> yes. >> yes. >> you have sean spicer backing up something that is not true. bob woodward, i'm not sure what you call that. i think people cringe when the word lie is used. >> yes, they do. >> what do we call it then? >> well, there's a lot of dancing going on by the white house press secretary and it's not pretty, and i agree. inconsistencies in this are endless. at the same time, a lie is an intentional deception. it may turn out to be the case in trump's memoirs some day. he'll say i made that all up.

i don't know that yet. he said, oh, in a couple of weeks, more information is going to come out. my tendency is to be patient. okay, let's see. let's make an inquiry. you talked about trump tower. >> right. >> all kinds -- i was there sitting around. endless numbers of people coming in and out. there was no way to monitor what may have been going on. so -- >> i know exactly what you're talking about. i was there too. except i will be criticized for it and you won't. that is the difference between you and me, bob woodward! >> in what way? >> i don't know why. we are both doing our job. >> bob, i know trump was certain his people in hawaii were working. they had this information and it was forthcoming. that was quite several years ago. are you still patient about that information about obama being an alien? i know trump said that that was forthcoming also. >> look. the track record on this is not

good. >> it's terrible. >> listen to bob. >> what is our job here? look. he is the president. he has made some assertions. president have made assertions before. and you check them out as thoroughly as you can. he said, okay, let's wait two weeks. i've had some people call me and say some things and say you ought to look at this and you ought to look at that. now, i don't have to write a story or go on the air every day and that is a great luxury. and i am availing myself of that luxury in this case. >> bob, as a journalist, let's just go back to your opening the door to a potential of some sort of information coming out. maybe perhaps pertaining to trump tower and the days after the election when you spent some time there. i saw what you saw. an endless stream of guests

coming in one after another and new people and new security. how does that back up any claim that president obama wiretapped trump tower in the course of the election? it almost seems fantastical. i understand you want to have an open mind but what is your advice about covering this in the days and weeks to come? let it go? >> no, don't let it go. strict accountability on this. but, you know, now they have modify and this is part of the dance, which i say is not pretty. it goes on forever and ever to say, well, now we really didn't mean wiretapping. the president meant surveillance. okay, well, hypothetically, suppose you are the russians and you want to find out what is going on in trump tower. you've got all of these people coming in. i mean, as you say, i think it would have been impossible for

anyone to monitor who these people were, what was going on. >> but that just has nothing to do with president obama wiretapping trump tower during the campaign. >> i agree. there is an absurdity in all of this. this is the polarization that has taken place. that people look at this, lots of people and say it's a lie, it's unsupported. other people say, oh, no, we love trump, he is our president, he can say anything, he can do anything. and i gravitate toward the middle on something like this. okay. let's find out. we don't have to answer this, this week or next week. and there are avenues to pursue. that is all i'm saying. >> got it. all right. now on to the budget. i love this conversation. it's fascinating. i want to hear about your days at trump tower, bob.

i'm sure you will be writing about them in the weeks and months to come, because the whole entire thing is fascinating and also a lee at the media and how the media is viewed. >> thee hardest words to say in washington -- i was wrong. >> it's it's not in trump's dna to to say that. mick mulvaney faced tough questions throughout yesterday. starting here on "morning joe." >> people see some of these numbers like the f-35 fighter, for example, cost 100 million or so to build one of those. and, at the same time, they see repealing away after-school programs. i know some of that is diverted in charter programs or school choice. do we need another f-35 and not have after-school programs? >> don't get me wrong. there is waste in the defense department as well. the president is upset about that and tasked general mattis to work on deficiencies in the defense department. when you look at the places that

will reduce spending one of the questions we asked can we really continue to ask a coal miner in west virginia or a single mom in detroit to pay for these programs? the answer is no. we can ask them to pay for defense and we will but not for the corporation of public broadcast broadcasting. you describe this as a high powered budget but is it half-hearted? >> i don't think so. i think it's one of the most compassionate things we can do. >> cut programs for the elderly? we are trying to focus on the people who give us the money in the first place. i think it's compassionate to say we are not asking for your hard earned mey any more. sing mom in detroit, give us your money. not do that any more unless we can -- >> headstart?

>> i think has that is about as compassionate you can get. >> this budget is gutting on people who need help. joe weighed in with his thoughts on the proposed budget and put out a series of tweets. he says this. this is more of the same washington idiocy. slash spending that cripples investments in our country. entitlements. all cuts come from 15% of the budget. entitlements explode. pentagon spending explodes. interest on the debt explodes. their growth is unsustainable and untouched by this budget. decent like a very conservative budget. but funding for schools, roads, cancer research, medical breakthroughs, safeguards for clean drinking water and clean air and food safety, all cut. when will washington do its job and save social security and

medicare and improve schools and invest in rnd and build roads and balance the budget? that won't happen without real entitlement reform. rational pentagon spending and growing parts of the budget that would yield big results. that is the hard truth. >> i think jo put it as best it could be put and i'll summarize and say, basically, it's a highly dysfunctional budget and a politically dysfunctional budget because he is shining light on things like education and hurting elderly people and without solving the problem. >> what is cool here. it's a nice refreshing, willie, that joe's tweets have the added value of being 100% true. just nice to talk about the facts. >> for all of the people talking about belt tightening in this budget you're not serious about that if you're not talking about what joe laid out there. gene, let's talk about your

article in "the washington post." quote. there was a comment yesterday from mick mulvaney in the briefing room where he was asked about meals on wheels and he said, quote, it's not showing any results.

i think the people who benefit from meals on wheels may argue with that. it goes to your point they are hammering places that touch people emotionally and their lives in a practical way and not going after the big drivers of debt and deficit. >> who cuts meals on wheels? i mean, who does that? who cuts -- who campaigns and says we are going to do something for the coal miners and cut funds for development in appalachian that have actually done a lot of good over time? you know, cutting food stamps. it is ridiculous. as joe tweeted, he is dealing with this little slice of the budget. he's not rationalizing defense spending and just increasing it by almost 10%. and, you know, entitlements are left alone. trump said he would leave entitlements lean and basically will, except for the medicaid cuts that are going to be in the

health care plan. i just don't see this budget making sense overall for his voters, certainly not for anybody else. and certainly not for members of congress who have support in their districts and in their states for these programs who that are being gutted. >> let's bring in republican congressman tom cole. tom, great to have you on the show. >> good to be with you. >> i'm curious. i'll read from "the new york times" in a moment. this budget, and the health care plan as it stand now, but this budget, specifically, where would that leave your constituents? where would that leave the constituents who voted for donald trump, voters who are struggling who feel left out in the cold? voters who wanted to make america great again? where would this budget leave them? >> it would be a mixed bag. i'm from a heavy military district so the emphasis on spending on defense, absolutely, would very popular in my district and is and is frankly necessary. what the president is trying to

do is broadly right and increase defense spending and in ways that don't add to the deficit. what i would suggest he expand and look at the entire budget. that is the real challenge here. you could pay for these things with tweaks and entitlement programs, quite frankly. >> exactly. >> you could go back to some things. president obama in 2014 proposed both means testing for medicare and what is called change cpi which slows down the growth of the program. doesn't cut anything but slows down the rate of inflation. and those yield tens of billions of dollars over the course of a decade. that is what i hope congress does. again, the president is right to send up his priorities. we ought to take them pretty seriously and how we appropriate. again, the emphasis on defense in a fiscally responsible way is correct. we need to work in a 4 trillion dollar budget to find ways to do that. >> i would understand that the voters in your district who work for the military. here is "the new york times" report.

i'm worried about the very people who are suffering in this country, who voted for him thinking that he cared about them. >> well, i think he is actually doing the right thing. frankly, with we have nuclear waste scattered around the country and makes a lot of sense to put it in one place. we have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the facility. the only reason it wasn't put in use is harry reid was the majority leader of the united states senate. something we need to rethink from a policy standpoint and it

would improve safety around the country. budgets are all tradeoffs. in the end the president proposes a budget and did what is exactly required to do by law but congress has to work through. i would be tougher on congress here and the president too. he does need to look at entitlement reform and the only way you'll ever balance the budget and actually begin to put the country on firm fiscal footing. but congress needs to have enough courage in its budget to lay out some of those reforms and we will see whether or not it does. i suspect it will quite frankly. >> nick? >> congressman, nick confessore. i was looking at some of your past comments on the nih. what is the conservative case for the government to fund basic research, for example? >> oh, it's an overwhelmingly good case. look. i don't favor cutting nih or center for disease control. you're much more likely to die in a pandemic than a terrorist attack and part of the defense of the country as well. the cdc is what protects you from things like ebola and zika. the nih, we have 1.6 million

americans a year that contract cancer. about 600,000 die. that is more people than died in the civil war, the bloodiest war in the american history. being on the cutting edge for curing cancer and look at alzheimer's. we spent tens of billions of dollars every year taking care of alzheimer's patients. that is the right thing to do, by the way. but we ought to spend enough money to try and find a cure or at least slow down that deadly disease. so these in my view are cuts that are very short-sided. these are investments the country ought to be making. they are every bit as important as what we do with another ohio class submarine or with, you know, a new f-35. i'm not saying those things aren't important but these things are important as well. >> eugene? >> congressman cole, gene robinson here. the one thing the president's budget does is essentially begins to dismember the environmental protection agency. it was founded by another

republican president, richard nixon who established the agency. and he is cutting essentially 30% of the epa. how can that be a wise thing to do? >> depends on what parts he is cutting. the epa has already been pared back a lot and i think probably folks don't realize. the budget is about 20% smaller than it was in 2010 so not as if congress has not been pretty strict with the dollar here. i would have to, to be fair, look at it in more detail. almost half of the epa's budget is for clean water and tribal grants, things like that. i think those are popular and pretty well-served. the regulatory function no question they put things in there that are not particularly popular and i don't think particularly helpful. we can look at it. i think the epa will get a haircut but i doubt it will be

quite as deep as this budget suggests. >> for a moderate, i'm very hawkish, so, you know, protecting us and our military fills a primal lead and making sure we survive. having said that when you present a 10% increase in something, i'd like to understand and say, oh, here is why. our nuclear, you know, weaponry is falling behind. we need to do x, y, z. doesn't there need to be some actual left brain as opposed to an emotional explanation? we need more military to justify that being such a huge part of the budget? >> there actually is. if you'll look at both the defense authorization bill that was passed late last year and the defense appropriations bill which has moved through the house and now over to the senate. look. we literally only have three or four combat brigades ready to deploy out of 50 some odd. our training is down. our pilots aren't getting enough air time. our equipment is old. we have been at war for 15 years. you need some of these modernizations like f-35 and new

tanker. these are actually wise investments. we are well below where secretary gates thought we should be. before he left office, he laid out a long-term budget that, again, would have, you know, frankly have more money than president trump is proposing at this point in time. i think he is a pretty thoughtful guy and i think he is somebody who is both parties trust. i will tell you we have been underfunding the military and overusing it for a good decade now. >> congressman tom cole, thank you very much for your perspective this morning. >> thank you. bob woodward, final thoughts? >> well, on the budget, it's really a messaging document and a fantasy document. congress is going to change it radically. i agree with gene robinson. this idea of cutting some of these things that are not just trump's base and constituency,

but the human impact of it is quite measurable and quite horrifying. i really wonder whether trump has looked at this in detail and they have told him, hey, if you cut here, it's going to have this human impact. i'm not sure that actually happened. >> i agree. bob woodward, thank you very much. eugene robinson, thank you as well. still ahead on "morning joe," after a weather delay, the president gets ready for his audience with angela merkel, or as politico puts it, the leader of the free world meets donald trump. plus. >> i got to tell you, i am very pleased and very excited and i got to tell you, it's something i haven't seen in a long time. this president is getting deeply involved. he is helping bridge gaps in our conference. he is making it easier and better for us to pass health care. the president, his involvement and his engagementment, his

listening and negotiating skills are bringing people together. >> but has he brought enough republicans together? the chairman of the ways and means committee kevin brady joins us ahead. and sylvia burwell had to complement obamacare when she was secretary of health and human services. she joins us with her take on the effort to dismantle it. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. knowing where you stand. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making retirement planning clearer. and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand.

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this is the story of green mountain coffee and fair trade, told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let's take a trip to la plata, colombia. this is boris calvo. that's pepe. boris doesn't just grow good coffee, boris grows mind-blowing coffee. and because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm to grow even better coffee and invest in his community, which makes his neighbor, gustavo, happy. that's blanca. yup, pepe and blanca got together. things happen. all this for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee. packed with goodness.

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welcome back to "morning joe." "time" magazine's last two persons of the year are meeting for the first time face-to-face today. joining us from the white house is nbc news national correspondent peter alexander. great game by the wildcats but heart breaker for the commodores but i root for you the rest the of the way. >> welcome you on board.

gonzaga is up next. we talked about seeing other people if this doesn't go our way. our friendship continues. fun to be in purple. my 3-year-old daughter we were watching the teams and say we are rooting for the gold team. i'm confused, daddy. i thought we only rooted for purple. >> that game was in salt lake city. not a short trip. that place was packed with northwestern fans. >> 78 years. 78 years of sky miles built up by northwestern fans is what sort of fueled that! let's talk about the white house, if we can. angela merkel, the german chancer is here today and her first visit with president trump at the white house and two questions from foreign reporters and two from american reporters where the president will likely be pressed on a variety of other issues including wiretapping in the like. what will be notable is the differences have existed most notably president trump as candidate trump was heavily critical of merkel's position

specifically on immigration. also his past sort of, i guess, his muddied words in terms of nato and u.s. commitment to nato going forward. 9 military that germany relies on in that region. secondly i was in that briefing yesterday with mick mulvaney and i tried to press him about the president's priorities and how some of those people who were many trump supporters in rural parts of america may be add conversely impacted by in of sm some of these cuts. take a listen. you know that meals on wheels is not a federal program and part of that block grants that we give to the states. have been many states make the decision to use that money on meals on wheels. we spend 150 billion dollars on those programs since the 1970s. these are -- they have been identified as programs since, i believe, the first -- actually the second bush administration as ones that were just not showing any results.

that -- we can't do that any more. we can't spend money on programs just because they sound good and great, meals on wheels sounds great. i can't defend that any more. we cannot defend that any more. we are 20 trillion dollars in debt and spend it on programs but not on this. we cannot spend money on show that programs that doesn't work. >> are you talking about programs that do or don't work. a program call shine in rural counties of pennsylvania that provide after-school educational programs for individuals in that areas. just so happened to propel president trump to the white house. i'm curious what you say to those americans in the community where they tell me 800 children who need it most will not be provided in those communities. the educational care they need. >> let's talk about after-school programs generally. they are supposed to be educational programs, right? that is what they are supposed to do. supposed to help kids who don't get fed at home get fed so they do better in school. guess what. there is no evidence that they are doing that.

no demonstrable evidence to show they are doing better in school. when we took your money from you to say, look. we are spending it on after-school program and the way we justified these programs will help kids do better in school and get better jobs. >> reporter: just want to do a brief fact check on that right now. mulvaney said no demonstrable evidence that after-school programs are helping those children, those individuals in school right now. i don't expect him to know the specific of this one program. i reached out to shine and got the exact numbers. here is their information. they say that 79% of their students improved in academic performance and 65 in classroom behavior and 96% of the students promoted to the next grade. this is a program that specifically indicators to 800 students in rural pennsylvania and they are the beneficiaries. meals on wheels the older americans act that actually fuels and funds a lot of meals on wheels programs in america.

they are all run independently. but community development block grants as well that come from federal money, those are big drivers as well and we went to central texas and austin yesterday. they say they serve 3,000 meals a day and without this funding, they will be at a loss. one last thought. they day is cost 1200 a year to serve these years or 40,000 a year to put them in nursing homes so ultimately the taxpayer that benefits by this program. >> i'm -- >> even if the -- it's interesting peter's follow-up it is from an educational point of view paying off but even if it wasn't the fact you're feeding kids that aren't getting fed is not enough. back to what we talked about earlier. the truth is under siege. we are we have a budget and great conviction saying from education and just completely false. the truth in this country, i remember growing up watching "superman." truth justice in the american way. truth is under siege. >> it really is. >> joe last week was going on very passionately justifiably so

with what happened when clinton, you know, had, you know, the thing with monica lewinsky and how it affected his kid and personal relationships. i think one of the bedrocks of who we are as humans, human interaction, truth, is so in play right now that that is a tremendously fightening thing. >> i will say you make a good point. because you have from the president's tweets to kellyanne conway's microwave oven and sean spicer, every day. >> that is sri stuff and as a matter of fact in looking at the budget numbers. >> going from dancing to actually covering up something. >> yeah. >> it is. i mean, it really is a very important and grave time, i think. joining us now from washington, u.s. secretary of health and human services and former director the office and management and budget, civsylvi burwell. good to have you on board this

morning. >> thanks for having me. >> where shall we begin? tell me your initial thoughts about the budget that has been put on the table and how it really describes the core values of this presidency. >> you know, i think many of the comments that i would say have been said this morning and i think the budget is a reflection of both your values and it's a reflection of how one implements against those values. i think right now what we see is a budget and i think the tweets that you showed earlier today from joe are actually quite important as one thinks about the budgets and the comments of congressman cole as well. when we think about an 18% cut in the parts of the budget that are very limited part of the budget and what those mean to the american people. i think, again, shifting the conversation from rhetoric to reality, what is the reality of what this means? and i'll just focus a second on specifically what it means in hhs where i just recently came from. and when you look at things like

the research that we do at hhs and these are all things that congressman cole mentioned and we worked with when i was there. worked across the aisle on these issues. things like cancer research which vice president biden, i think, helped people really understand the importance of making sure that goes forward in ways that impact everybody's lives. the other thing that was mentioned very specifically this morning and those kind of cuts really hurt our ability to serve the american people are the centers for disease control control and prevention. having sat in that seat at hhs when we had zika and when we had ebola and making sure that we were protecting people here at home from those types of things, those kinds of cuts are the kinds of things people can't deliver what is expected by the american people. >> it's willie geist and good to see you, sylvia. the point we are making today not there is not fat to be trimmed in the budget and not we are not spend too much money but looking in a lot of the wrong places. the right places are in the

mandatory spending area. as a former budget director at social security and you look at medicare how could those be changed so we don't have to make these discretionary cuts? >> i think that is the conversation we need to have as a nation. things about how do we want to think about the choices we need to make as a nation, especially when we know that we have a very large baby boom population coming through. i think some some of the most important things we can do and come back to another conversation we are having right now about health care. that is reforming and changing the system and nthe ways that we deliver care in the united states and that was a big part of the emphasis and time that i spent at hhs. the kinds of things we need to do are change the way that we deliver care so that we focus on outcomes, not occupanutputs so not providing providers and nurses and physicians to do a test. what you're paying them for is whether or not people are well. we set up standards for medicare

so that those payments in medicare would be paid not for a transaction, a test, but whether or not you get an outcome for a patient. that is important. better use of data is important for both the patient, as well as providers. in term of moving to better costs and affordability, as well as better quality. >> why is it, then? we are all looking at the same numbers. i think we all at this table any way and most of the people in the country agree we know where the spending is in mandatory areas. why is this such a difficult problem to tackle. if everybody knows what the problem is why can't anything be done about it in washington? >> one of the things i think is important and doesn't get talked about a lot is a lot was done in the medicare space. if you look at the numbers of savings, the dollars that were saved from the time that the affordable care act was enacted and the time that we just left, and even if we didn't have the final numbers, it was over $300

billion less than the projections before the affordable care act. and when you think about the numbers that we are talking about today, saving $300 billion in medicare was a really important start. do we need to do more? do we need to continue on the path of making sure that we are delivering health care in an affordable quality way? yes, we do. and we need to continue on that path. fortunately, actually, last year and even the year before, the congress came together in a bipartisan fashion to vote on important legislation. it's called macra, but it is legislation that gives the department of health and human services some of the tools to work on these problems. >> sylvia matthews-burwell, thank you very much. great to have you on the show again. appreciate it. still ahead, the obamacare repeal barely made it through the budget committee but sailed through the committee chaired by our next guest, congressman kevin brady of the ways and means committee joins us ahead.

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president trump released his proposed budget today. they are calling at the time

title of the budget is american first a budget blueprint to make american great again. seemed like they were cutting things they could have cut a few words out of that title! not only does trump want to put a stop to federal funding for public broadcasting, he is already started cleaning house at pbs. >> i say you're fired! >> what? >> you're a quitter. >> i guess we have to find a new place to live! >> it's too bad but that is the way it goes. >> big bird never had a shot against la toya jackson! >> all right. still ahead, breitbart is reportedly one of trump's favorite news sources. and was once run by his top adviser steve bannon. stephanie gosk joins us ahead for the rise of the online publication. back in a moment.

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welcome back to "morning

joe." joining us from capitol hill, republican congressman, kevin brady of texas. good to see you this morning. >> good to see you, happy st. patrick's day. >> you as well. let's talk about the health care bill you are trying to get through the house. how do you knit together all the republicans, not just the democrats, but members in your caucus. you have the freedom caucus on one hand and others who think it's obamacare 2.0. how do you convince the group of republicans this is the right way to go? >> we all know, this is our best opportunity to deliver on our promise to repeal the awful law of obamacare and return control to people in the states the designed health care they need. look, i think we are listening, working together. we have a lot more in common than that divides us. at the end of the day, the house is going to pass this bill. as president trump tweeted out

recently, we are making good progress. >> a lot of people paid attention to the top line number from the cbo of 24 million people who a decade from now wouldn't have coverage but would under the current law. i understand they would leave willingly because there's no individual mandate in the bill. can you promise the people in your district there would be no gap in coverage from the current law to the next one? >> i can guarantee every constituent of mine will have the opportunity to buy afardable health care that is designed for them, not washington. that person working their way off of medicaid into that first job or whether it's that small business person who isn't, today, treated like a worker at a big business or that early retiree who is too young for medicare, but still needs health care. those are the groups we are focused on in this replacement. >> what about the people in your district who say, maybe i didn't

like president obama, but i like the benefits i'm enjoying under the affordable care act. i'm worried when you take them away, they are not going to come back how i have them now or it will be a pain to transition to a new plan. why can't i keep what i have? >> here is the answer. obamacare is a sinking ship. for them, it is a sinking ship. it's going to take them down unless congress acts. that's why we are acting now. not to take away the awful taxes, the mandates that drive people into care they can't afford, but begin as a thoughtful, deliberate process to make sure there's affordable health care for my constituents when obamacare hits its death spiral. that's the work we are doing. >> congressman, of the 24 million people that might lose their health care, 10 million are medicaid, 14 million from plans. of that 14 million, what percentage do you think are

struggling with their plans and don't want them at all? how many? >> according to the congressional budget office, i know it's tough to make those estimates, they give it their best shot. obviously 11 million americans next year given the freedom not to be forced into obamacare are saying thanks, but no thanks. we ought to be listening to those americans who are getting huge subsidies for expensive plan who is say this isn't working for us. that's the people we are trying to cover, plus in texas, for example, we have 1 million texan who is would find a way to exempt themselves from obamacare despite all the subsidies and promises. they said we don't want this. we ought to be reaching out to them and we are in this republican bill to get them affordable health care they can use. >> what is the rational, congressman, for the tax cuts for investment income, higher earners, how does that advance

the cause of good health care in the country? >> that is easy. why are we taxes jobs, investment, people's health care as we are promising to lower the cost of them. look, this economy is still struggling. you know, everest mat is sub 2% growth over the next decade. why are we taxing people investing back in local jobs and community. why are we taxing health insurance plans when government is claiming to lower those costs? we know better on how best to get the economy going and lower consumer costs. >> chairman, thank you very much. still ahead, we are going to talk to one of the first republicans to cast a vote against the health care bill. congressman dave brat will be our guest. call it bipartisanship, the top democrat and republican on the senate intel committee unite to push back against the president's wiretap claims. the white house refuses to back down. you mow...

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>> a press secretary who i air quotes, air quotes, air quotes. >> i'm sorry. >> what we've got here is failure to communicate. >> the president is a neofite to politics. >> i can't believe i'm saying i'm a politician. i guess i am now. >> a lot of things he says you guys sometimes take literally. >> there was an article, they used that exact term. >> sometimes he doesn't have 27 lawyers and staff looking at what he does. >> we will submit things very soon. >> if you are going to take the tweets clearly and you are, clearly the president was wrong. >> we'll ultimately vindicate him. >> the people who talked to, i don't think there was an actual tap of trump tower. >> i believe he will. >> just remember, it's not a line if you believe it. >> that's it. seinfeld right there.

when you lose the intel committee, you have lost the fight. not for this white house, which is tripling down on the president's executive tweet storm, this, as his own party faces a tough climb on health care and the budget. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday. right? are we good? >> guaranteed. >> it's friday, march 17th. i do not put that in quotes, it is actually friday. joe is wrapping up his family vacation. he will be back monday morning. with us we have senior political analyst for nbc news, mark halperin. donn donnie deutsche is with us and casey hunt in washington. great group. thank you all. >> casey is the only one wearing a hint of green on st. patrick's day. thank you. >> you guys! >> she's so cute. >> a small hint of green on this tie. >> not going to do it. >> okay.

i messed up. i'm glad i know the day of the week at this point. kind of a long one. this morning, the white house is standing by president trump's claims of being wiretapped by a former president obama. despite leaders of the senate intelligence committee saying there is no evidence of this. in a joint statement, the top republican and democrat on the intel committee, senator richard burr and mark warner rebuked the president's claim. we see no iications that trump tower was the subject of rveillance by any element of the united states government before or after election day 2016. here is house speaker house ryan. >> in the broadest sense of the definition, is there any evidence to back up the president's air quote claim, i guess, at this point. >> i don't know what else you want me to add to this, chuck. i said this pretty much for a few days now, since i have

gotten it. the chairman and ranking members on both committees, we are not seen evidence. i have seen no evidence of wiretapping or a court order or anything like that. i'll leave it at that. >> he doesn't want anything to do with it, at all. it wasn't just the air quote claim, it was several tweets that made unequivocal statements about former president, barack obama, committing a felony. the white house, if you cannot believe this is not backing down, they are doubling down. during the press briefing, press secretary sean spicer spent seven minutes going through reports dealing with possible surveillance of the president and sparred with reporters over the president's claims. >> the president's been clear when he talked about this last night. he talked about wiretapping, he meant surveillance. there have been ins stances that

occurred. >> are you saying the president stands by the allegation that president obama ordered wiretapping or surveillance of trump tower despite the fact the senate intelligence cmittee see no indication it happened? >> no, first of all, he stands by it. you are mischaracterizing what happened today. >> he was clear about it last night. he talked about it. yes, he was. he meant it. it was put in quotes, very broad. that's what he meant by the use of the term. huh? >> was it phone tapping? >> no, it was surveillance. i think we have covered it ten times. >> the accusation is so disturbing. you can see the reporters trying very hard to do their job and take it seriously day after day. i have heard from the inside, days after it happened, he knows he shouldn't have done it and shrugged it off. everyone is wasting valuable time in washington trying to

back up the president's credibility when the president himself, mark halperin, knows this was a big boo boo. >> speaker ryan's weekly press conference yesterday. he wanted to talk about hoelt care. several questions were asking, once again, as chuck did, what do you make of the president of the united states making these accusations against his predecessor. this is hurting the agenda, i'm not sure it is. the distraction may be undercover with health care without focus on the fight. >> he should take it back. he should stop letting it be an issue. i'm not sure it's hurting them as much as some people say. >> where is the rage? if a seventh grader sent out on social media a text that said oh, that other student cheated, they would be expelled. should we not old our president to the same accountability as a

seventh grader? he not only lies, he maliciously lies. where is the end? is it just an oops, a britney spears oops, i did it again. >> that would be good news. >> he lies with malicious intent, whether it was to slam islam because there are people dancing on roofs or to slam a president that he's an alien. he lies with malicious intent and we move on. there needs to be rage about this. >> the entire argument sean spicer and the white house made hinges on air quotes. donald trump said it to tucker, i wrote it in air quotes. the tweet from march the 4th reads, i bet a good lawyer can make a good case out of the fact president obama was tapping my phones in october. no air quotes. >> a lawyer could make a case that's defamation. >> perhaps. what else, you have paul ryan, devin nunez, senator richard

burr, the republican as well as devin nunez. the chair of the senate intel committee saying this didn't happen. what else do you want? are you going to defame them, too? are they not reliable sources? where are you going now? >> this comes back. if there are people who voted for trump who start feeling like they are not going to get what he promised and i think we have a couple of different ways of showing you this morning through the budget and the health care plan, where they are going to be completely cut out as opposed to finally brought in. i think this does ultimately hurt. this is such a big lie. so, here is paul ryan, again, trying to deal with this, i guess. take a look. >> are you concerned this eats away at the president's credibility when he's got to sell the country on a health care plan and a budget that's going to polarize the two political parties? if he's not credible on this, how is he going to be credible selling these important

proposals to you? >> look, i will say what i have said for months now. it's going to be a nonconventional presidency. twitter is new. twitter and facebook and all these things. as americans and society, we haven't fully processed the new system we have and the president is -- let me just say, it's going to be an unconventional presidency. i'm not going to justify every tweet out there. i don't pay that much attention to it. i'm here in congress, focusing on my job to get things done. >> your advice is to ignore him? we are to ignore things the president says? >> you are putting words in my mouth, chuck. all i know is i have not seen evidence of it. i don't have anything more else to add. >> a horrible position for republicans to be in while they are trying to do their job. at some point, a decision has to be made on the part of republicans as to where they are going to land on this president. and there are ways to deal with situations like this, if they

get out of hand. if lying becomes pervasive within the white house and starts to creep into all the executive branches, it's not so much that ends well for the president of the united states. >> that interview with paul ryan, chuck did a great job. i was screaming at the tv. he started to blame the world of facebook and twitter. that was the issue. >> no. >> he seemed like such a coward up there. why can't one republican get up there and say, you know -- >> this is wrong. >> this is absolutely wrong. >> that's john mccain. by the way, mitch mcconnell has been a hero. john mccain, lindsey graham, i'm saying these words, heroes on this. ben sass as well. i truly respect and honor for their ability to speak truth to power. >> do they use the word lie? we have to stop dancing around.

>> i'm very satisfied with what they are trying to do to keep the respect of the office intact. still ahead on "morning joe," the budget rollout hits serious snags. mick mulvaney and his questions about the morality of the president's budget vision. john mccain says it is clear this budget proposed today cannot pass the senate. also ahead, we'll be joined by congressman dave brat, one of three republicans to vote no on the health care plan, almost killing it in the budget committee. we'll ask him if he can get to yes. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i work with people everywhere on sea, on land, and in the air. inspecting towers y up highre avoiding turbulence in the sky. personalizing treatments with dna and recommending who should play. a dress that thinks, which crops to grow, tax prep to help keep payments low. you can find me on an oil rig,

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we have the budget that gives a sense of president trump's vision. it adds billions to defense spending slashing everything from the state department to the department of education, meals on wheels and omb director, mick

mulvan, faced tough questions on the president's priorities for such deep cuts in the budget. >> people seeing the numbers like the f-35 fighter cost $135 million to build one of those. at the same time, they see repealing away after school programs, hitting public schools. some of the money is diverted to charter schools and school of choice. do you see why people would be upset about that. do we need another f-35? >> don't get me wrong, there's waste. they were working on deficiencies. when looking at the places that reduce spending, one of the questions asked is can we continue to ask a coal miner in west virginia or a single mom in detroit to pay for these programs? the answer is no. we can ask them to pay for defense and we will. we cannot ask them to pay for public broadcast. meals on wheels is not a federal

program, it's the blocked grant we give to the states. many states make the decision to use that on meals and wheels. $150 billion on those programs since the 1970s. the cdbgs are programs identified as one that is are not showing results. you can't do that anymore. we can't spend money on programs just because they sound good. meals on wheels sounds great. i cannot defend that anymore. we are going to spend a lot of money, but not programs that cannot show they actually deliver the promises we made to people. >> there's a program called the shine in pennsylvania. rural counties in pennsylvania that provide after school educational programs for individuals in those areas, which is the state that propelled president trump to the white house. i'm curious what you say to those americans where they say 800 individuals will no longer

be provided in those most needed communities the educational care they need. >> talk about after school programs generally. they are supposed to be educational. they are supposed to help kids that don't get fed at home get fed to do better at school. guess what? there's no evidence they are doing that or helping results, helping kids do better in school. when we took your money from you to say, look, we are going to spend it on after school programs. the programs are going help kids do better in school and get better jobs. >> a hard power budget. is it a hard hearted budget? >> i don't think so. i think it's one of the most compassionate things we can do. >> cut programs and cut the elderly? >> you are focusing on half. you are focusing on recipients of the money. we are focusing on the recipients and the folk that is give us the money. look, we are not going to ask

you for your hard earned money anymore. a single mom of two in detroit, okay, give us your money. we are not going to do that anymore unless we can -- >> head start. >> unless we can guarantee to you that money is being yulsed in a proper function. that is as compassionate as you can get. >> it's compassionate because it's not proven that feeding children at school make them do better in school, so it's better if they go hungry? that's compassionate? the long-time loyalists have had a difficult time agreeing with the cuts here. what does this mn aut the president's agenda and his core? here is the first congressman to support the campaign, chris collins speaking last night. >> my mother-in-law, prior to her passing on, she had meals on wheels in her apartment five days a week. it's not seven days a week. they bring that extra meal on the weekend. it was her way to also know she

was safe. she lived alone. this is the president's budget. i'm not sure where the details came from. i can assure america a congression congressional budget. meals and wheels is a wonderful program. it is one i would never vote to cut even $1. >> casey hunt, what are you hearing on capitol hill about how this budget feels and how they are going to try to explain this? >> look, i think the bottom line is, i don't think this goes anywhere in congress, partly because of what you saw there. a lot of these cuts, they are to places that, you know, i think this is going to be the real question. these cuts will disproportionately affect the rural areas that voted overwhelmingly for president trump. that, of course, is going to be what will halt them in congress. there are, you know, members, representatives who stand-up for public broadcasting, cutting that affects places. there's somebody standing up for the programs in congress.

i do think the question is going to be how do trump supporters perceive what he is trying to do. dohey believe the way the president is fng this, trying to help me, trying to not take my tax dollars rr feel like he has turned on them? i see no evidence that's how people are feeling. that's what it would take to reverse the political tide here. >> nick, let's go to you in a second. louisiana congressman richmond said a budget is more than numbers on a page, it's a moral document that reveals your priorities. the details of president trump's budget plan combined with the bill to repeal and replace the affordable care act provide a version of what it is. here is what that picture is starting to look like. defense up 10%. veterans affairs up 6%. homeland security up nearly 7%. the losers, e.p.a. down 32%. the state department down 29%.

health and human services cut by 16%. 62 programs will be eliminated completely including the comprehensive literacy program, home energy assistance and wildlife refugee fund. according to the republican health care plan, the winners include the young and healthy who should find cheaper insurance policies, the wealthy, some who suffer, the elderly a hospitals that have to provide uncompensated care. nick, you are a numbers guy. you look at this stuff closely. is there a chance what we are seeing on the page actually becomes the budget of the united states or is this a starting point for a negotiation? >> zero chance, willie. it's a starting chance for negotiation. it's a leverage point. it's also a moral document for president trump. i think it shows what his gamble is. if you unleash industry, coal,

get rid of the e.p.a. or ratchet it back and build the pentagon back up, you see jobs in the communities without the economic development grants and the need for the local programs. what's interesting, though, is to hear them talk about the need to cut federal spending. this budget cuts federal spending and it doesn't touch the biggest drivers of federal spending and the deficit, which are entitlements. it takes smaller programs and cuts them out. hands that money over to the pentagon, which is the most wasteful department in the government. the driver of federal spending, a strange thing for an administration talking about cutting spending. >> nick, that's an important point. with all the talk, all this stuff is important and affects people's lives. in the big picture, tinkering around the edges. that comes from mandatory spending. trump doesn't want to touch medicare and social security.

i think mick mulney has other ideas and they are trying to tell him why it's important. trump said he's not touching those things. >> he promised he would not. it's important to keep his promise. the house budget, obviously takes a different tact on those things. to some extent, this reminds me of the campaign he ran, protect the entitlements for the middle class, boost pentagon spending, cut the rest of it and get rid of the regulation. >> still ahead, trump 101, how to deal with the president. how to get what you want from the commander in chief. mike joins us ahead. plus, from fringe start up to formidable force, inside the world of breitbart. stephanie gosk joins us with her report. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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it is 27 past the hour. is breitbart the reason that we now talked for two weeks about president trump's claim that president obama wiretapped trump tower?

when president trump exploded in the tweet storm two weeks ago, most wondered where he got that notion from. many point to an article breitbart posted a couple days before the tweets that made a similar charge. what exactly is the relationship between the trump white house and the publication that steve bannon, himself, calls the platform for the alt right. stephanie gosk got a look at the rise of breitbart and its influence on the president. she joins us now. good morning, stephanie. >> we know it is president trump's favorite news source once run by top adviser, steve bannon. he's poking a finger in the eye of the mainstream media. they are racists, antisemimites and white supremacists. we talked to the chief tha pushes against theritics, defending the news site he's worked at since 2007. >> we are not a hate site.

>> do you think you have been unfairly dmonized? >> without a doubt. >> they have seen a mediocre rise since being run by steve bannon. it exploded during the course of the presidential campaign with 240 million views a month. there was a former employee of yours who called breitbart trumpbart. >> yes. >> was that a fair criticism during the election? >> absolutely unfair. >> they will criticize the president if he breaks his promises. >> if he makes good on the promises, he gets good coverage. >> do you talk to the president? >> i have spoken to the president on air, i believe four times. twice when he was a candidate, twice before he was a candidate. i have not spoken to him other than, since he's been elected.

>> how about steve bannon? does he reach out? >> every so often. i think he is a busy man these days. >> they are in lock step on most issues. the tweets that president obama wiretapped him during the campaign echo an idea in a breitbart article published the day before. >> was it tweeted because of a breitbart article? >> that, i don't know. i have heard things similar to you. i have heard an article played a factor in it. >> the article doesn't go as far as trump does, accusing his predecessor. but investigating the links to russia are political. >> we have learned little about any connection between trump and russia. what we have learned is there are incredible amounts of leaks flooding out of washington, specifically to undermine the president of the united states. the media is reporting all of that. >> who should the american

public believe, mainstream media, the federal government, breitbart? >> i would say believe breitbart. i tnk breitbart is -- >> but why? why should we believe breitbart over what the federal government tells us about possible connections with russia tampering with the election? >> possible connections and actual connections are different. >> yes, but when the federal government says we are investigating russia, tampering with our election, why, as an american citizen not step back and say i should be worried about that? >> i'm not saying you shouldn't be worried. there's ample reporting and investigation. the world is focused on the story. i'm asking for one piece of hard evidence. >> he describes his staff as a mix of reporters and activists. the site blurring lines between news and opinion. what is your mission? >> first of all, just to be a great news site.

covering hard hitting, fast paced, accurate, always accurate information. now, where we differ is that we are admittedly right of center. we are a pop list, nationalist, grass roots conservative website. >> what is breitbart's position on immigration? >> we don't have a party line position on it. i'll tell you a few things that are consistent. we believe border security and national security is a serious issue. we think that there is an american value system that's worth being preserved. >> do you think that american value system is in jeopardy because of immigration? >> it depends. it's in jeopardy because of immigration if people coming into the country do not understand the american values and don't want to assimilate into american society. >> the brand of conservatism is under fire, called among other things, racist because of headlines like this one.

hoist it high and proud, the confederate flag glorious heritage. would they publish it today? >> i don't know the answer to that. probably yes. to be honest with you, i disagree with the article, i don't disagree with running it. it makes arguments that that flag doesn'tust symbolize racism to people, it symbolizes southern pride, southern heritage. my personal view is, i think we have moved on as a society from that symbol. that doesn't mean we can't have a debate and a discussion about it. >> regardless of who it may affect. do you compromise civility in the defense of free speech? >> in some cases i think that's acceptable because it's proving a point of freedom of speech. we used to raise a society that was supposed to be how to be resilient emotionally. now, everyone is looking for their safe space. i think that's a dangerous

thing. >> one thing he doesn't think is dangerous, president trump calling the quote, fake news media the enemy of the american people. that kind of extreme language, is that not damaging to democracy? >> i don't think it is. in a lot of ways, the press is the opposition party. that's 100% the world view i have. >> wow, wow, wow. >> breitbart made its first significant break with the white house over the health care bill. they are upset about the taxes to the wealthy. i will also note, they have put the blame for that bill squarely at the feet of speaker ryan and you know there is no love lost between them. >> yeah. >> how come they let you in. i understand they put a young, thoughtful face, not somebody you would associate with breitbart out there. some of the things -- put a more polished literal figurative face

out there. >> alex is not milo. >> no, he's not. >> do you think he said, you know, steve bannon doesn't call very often or not as much as he thought he would call. the assumption was steve bannon is working behind the scenes and directing coverage. is that your sense of it? >> i don't think we know. >> i'm not sure -- i think it's what we brings to the white house and the fact that many think he is president bannon right now. >> right. >> with his ideology, his background, what he's done there. would he care? whether he cares or not about running breitbart is aside from the point, it's the impact on the president, given what he's done, where he came from, what he's supported and where he lived. it's only what we can gleam. fair enough? >> there was reporting when breitbart went after reince priebus for a while. there was reporting steve bannon reached out to the washingtoned

for. we do not have that confirmed. we do not know that's the case other than that particular moment, as i mentioned they have been in lock step over that health care issue. you wonder, in some ways if that's an out for the white house. blame it on speaker ryan. we go in a different direction. i don't know. just a theory. stephanie gosk, thank you very much. great to have you on the show. still ahead, congressman date brat says the protests he got last month were real. we'll ask what the protests mean for the battles in washington from the president's budget to overhaul health care. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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40 past the hour on this friday. you know what friday means? friday means tomorrow is saturday. you never know what can happen

on a saturday. but then that means the next day is sunday. >> yes. >> sunday today, willie. >> yes. >> was that a good run up? >> very good. >> tell us what you have. >> 48 hours till sunday. last week, we had john bon jovi. this week, one of the biggest, most important ceos of the country. the co-founder of airbnb. >> cool. >> he's been on this program, along with his mother, who is fantastic. he started this company less than ten years ago when they put three air mattresses inside their apartment and rented out the living room of their apartment. now it has a valuation of $30 billion. $30 billion for airbnb, which is bigger than major hotel chains we have stayed at. what is next for them? they are running into regulations in big cities. the hotel industry is trying to chase and catch up. they are changing the way we stay in the country. >> a quick plug.

fantastic show. we typically go from bush to bon jovi, that's the span and the interest of the show. well done. >> appreciate it. >> it is sunday today. like having brunch with your friends. >> thank you, mika. >> yeah. joining us from capitol hill -- >> do you do that? mimosas? >> it's sunday morning. >> really? okay, we'll have to stop by the set. joe and i might crash the set. >> i would love it. >> think everyone there would be okay with it? we are going to do that. joining us from capitol hill, congressman dave brat of virginia. good to have you on board, sir. >> thanks, mika. >> you got the know on the health care plan? >> yeah. i have been a no. i taught economics 20 years. >> you know a thing or two about these things? >> a little. the distortion started after

world war ii with the employer provided thing and we were all overconsuming. go in and pay your co-pay because the insurance companies picked up by the boss. that started us off on a path. then obamacare paying sole attention to coverage. now the death spiral with aetna and huma that and all that. we have to have a free market system where prices go down. prices are going up 25% and cbo as them still going up. most is attached to the regulation. that's the piece people don't know as much about. if you get rid of the regs, we got rid of one in the upcoming bill. that pushes prices down 10%. prices are going up by 25%. if you are down 10 you are still up 15. we have to bend the cost curve down so the average person at home sees a decline in premiums. >> it's willie geist. thanks for being on. it affects people's lives when

they hear the details of health care. you eyes roll back into your head, it's so complex, complicated and confusing to people. >> yep. >> in the simplest of terms, explain how the day after, if you all have your way, the affordable care act goes away. what health care will look like in america, how different it will be. >> we want a full repeal of the federal system. what's interesting is you don't hear us pushing back too much on the fiscal part. we have serious problems with pre-existing conditions. 5% of the population has serious health concerns and costs are 50%. 5% of the people, 50% of our national cost. we need to deal with those folks here. they are uninsurable. you don't set up an insurance system for 300 million people around 5% who aren't insurable. take care of them in the safety net through welfare and programs that deal with their sicknesses. >> what do you do with those

people, congressman? >> i want to push it back to the states. we are doing some of that in the bill. there's a huge pot of money, $100 billion for pre-existing and risk pools and rand paul wants associations where you join a huge group and push the cost down. everybody knows the horror stories. go to the hospital and get a $600 thermometer. this price you are paying here is huge to support these programs over here. none of it is transparent because peopleren't shopping with their own dollars anymore. when you have to pull money out of your wallet, you don't pay attention. that's not going on. you go in and you are at the mercy of what the hospital says or your doctor says and we need to bring that down. the federal government is $100 trillion off. everything the fed touches goes insolvent because we are putting debt on the kids.

we got a free money supply up here. we need to push it down to the states. they have to balance their budget. they are closer to the people and you get variety. california is different than texas. it makes sense. push the power back to the people. >> congressman, i want to join in. i want to pick up where willie was. yesterday morning i was watching "morning joe" and my daughter said explain health care. >> "morning joe" brings families together. >> true story. i said it comes down to this, we want to insure millions of americans that don't have it. one way or another, somebody has to pay for it. that's why insurance for somebody like me goes up. we make a decision as a country, do we want to help. i thought that was a simplistic explanation. to that point, if we are going to insure uninsured people somebody has to pay for it. who pays for it? >> that's right. what are you paying for? right now we have access -- >> the most simplistic term for

my daughter. if 10 million people need to be insured that cost x, who is paying for that x other than all of us, which is the most implisic way of putting it. >> the rest of the taxpayers are subsidizing health care. for a bronze plan, the average deductible for the lower-middle class person is $11,000 to use it. if we are subsidizing a product that doesn't work. trump wants to shop across state lines. good, even if you have that in the current plan, you are going to shop for socialist product that no one can afford. the market would never provide that. if you have to go out and search for a product that your family can afford, you are going to want, most people are going to want a catastrophic plan like coming out of college. kids can't go out and buy a cheap plan when they are healthy. that's the problem. you are forced to pay for a kid who is 25 who is perfectly healthy for a premium package plan. that's why it is in the ditch.

we have to fix it and get back to markets. markets, by the way, also the u.s., i taught economic development. guess who produces the major breakthroughs in pharmaceuticals and life saving drugs? the united states of america. we have the best health care system. if you have the government dictating everything, guess what goes away? the innovation and drive that made us the envy of the world. >> soupds like the budget. >> you got it. you get. thank you guys. let's bring in the co-founder of axeis. they are out with a piece called trump 101, how to deal with donald. educate me. >> good morning, mika. happy st. patrick's friday. >> oh, thank you. you are wearing green, at least. okay. how do deal with trump. >> mika, this is the art of the donald. he's become the first customer to every ceo in america. everybody is worried about the

tweet. we looked at what happens after the tweet, how to navigate that call or that meeting that the ceo is going to want to have afterward. >> okay. so, there's a lot we know about donald trump in the art of the deal in knowing him, in covering him. is there anything different about dealing with president trump? >> well, it's very related, mika. first of all, you know the importance of interpersonal contact with him. get to the table. he does listen. the ceos we talked to said you go in there and he definitely has ideas about these things. he's willing to talk to you. don't snub him. if you decide not to go in, you are going to lose your leverage, instantly. a phone call is fine. a meeting is better. second, mika, you know this so well, give him a win. think about what the tweet is going to be, jobs is best. what can he have? he's so transactional.

coming out of this, what can he take away. >> i have a problem with the premise. you can get to the table and he can be very reasonable and, okay, i'm going to do that. then someone else gets to the table and someone else gets to the table and the evening comes and steve bannon gets to him and that thing he agreed to goes away. he is transactional in a manic way. >> that's a great way of putting it. >> that's the importance of getting to steve bannon. one point is talk to jared kushner and steve bannon. he listens to them. you are right, he may listen to the last person he talks to. that's the importance of being in there and the imptance of finding common ground with him. go there. the aerospace companies have done well. they can talk to him about planes. he loves his 757. he's loving air force one even more now. butter him up and talk to him in his language. people say he doesn't talk tech

speak. he's an old guy. he talks about figures for numbers. talk is language. find the common ground and you have gone a long way. >> mike allen, thank you very much. >> happy weekend. >> the only thing about bannon is you see what's coming out in trump is all bannon stuff t bannon way. not anything anyone else said. i love the words you use, manically transaction. >> you may have a transaction with him, but it won't last an hour. axios is amazing. mike allen is amazing. donald trump claimed he is not holding to lobbyists or big money donors. new reports suggest that may not be true. that's ahead on "morning joe." ♪ heigh ho ♪ heigh ho ♪ heigh ho heigh ho it's off to work we go

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and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and togeer, we'll helpou make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. this is fascinating. joining us is vickie ward. the blow it up all billionaires. it looks into trump campaign megadonor, rebecca mercer. if trump was an unexpected victor, the mercers, unexpected king makers. more republican names such as the koch brothers and singer sat out the election. the mercers sent millions of dollars to a campaign that seemed beyond salvaging.

that explains how rebecca secured a spot on the trump transition team. before this point, rebecca's resume consisted of a run trading stocks and bonds. a longer stint running the family's foundation and along with her two sisters, the management of an online gourmet cookie shop. now, the foot soldier who is would remake or unmake the united states government in trump's image. vickie joins us now. wow. where do we begin? i want to go home and take a shower. >> i know. it gets worse. >> all right, take it. how does it get worse? let's go right to the point. >> okay. rebecca is unpresented for several reasons. one, most megadonors have huge businesses of their own that they need to run. they haven't got the time to sit

around on presidential transition teams, pushing for their conditioneds. >> which one is rebekah? >> tall. glasses with diamond studs in them. most of them don't have the time to be reaching out to put people into positions in government and fight for people who follow the p mercer agenda. she was furious when john bollton did not get a job in the current administration. they have commercial ties. >> correct. >> but the even more interesting and perhaps dangerous thing about rebekah mercer is she didn't just want to put into her team and use the government to do so, she wanted to blow up the system. she wanted to do that through

forming an outside group that she would control through this vehicle, thi data science organization. unlike all the other data groups that work for the americans, they are affiliated with republican or democratic parties. this group originally, they are british, originally. they are not affiliated with either party. the mercer es own all their data. in theory, she could, if they had been allowed to be the only outside group, they weren't in the end, it blew up in her face, she could have caused a wedge between what she wanted to push, her agenda and the presidents. >> nick. >> the question, i covered the mercers for a couple years, the mystery is what do they really believe? most donors, their policy passions are evident. fewer taxes, smaller government.

what did you learn about their core beliefs? >> they are obviously extremely far right. you can't neatly tie them up. you know, first of all, socially, they don't fit in. i have an anecdote where bob mercer is in and he says listen, i don't care who you know, i don't want to know. they supported candidates and told people they wou rather have a democrat in place of susan collins. the first time they could test their money, they backed a doctor who, you know, collected viles and viles and viles of urine in the belief it elongates life. the candidate they ran against, john mccain held a town hall to

discuss chem trails. it's citizens united. the mercers could not exist had citizens united not passed that decision. >> making me very nervous. >> i should be. >> thank you very much. we'll be reading the new piece in high line magazine at "huffington post." everyone should read it. thank you very, very much. have a great weekend. tomorrow is saturday. you know what that means, then sunday. sunday today with with willie geist. that does it for us this morning. craig melvin picks up the coverage now. >> craig melvin in for stephanie ruhle this morning. breaking, the united states reaching out to the united kingdom, expressing regret for dragging them into the president's wiretapping claims as the white house refuses to back down. >> he stands by. you are mischaracterizing what happened today. >> on the ropes. you are looking at live pictures, republicans holding a press conference, the secretary of health and human