you know, it really is remarkable, this time we find ourselves in. a time of renewed hope and boundless opportunity for the american people. i think we're at a pivotal moment in our nation's history that started last november the 8th. in this moment, though, i want to leave you with a challenge. we need every freedom-loving american who knew we could be stronger, who knew we could be better, who knew we could stand tall again, to yourselves stand up and speak out. it's time that we demanded government is as good as our people. we need you to tell the world we can do better. that we're renewing and restoring this country. that we're putting it back on a path to a brighter future. tell your nghbors and your friends, stop people outside the drugstore. st let them know how strongly you support the president's vision for this country, particularly when it comes to health care.

you know, one of my favorite verses in the old book is from the book of jeremiah. it's hung over the mantle of our home, since i first ran for congress successfully in the year 2000. and now it hangs over the mantle in the vice president's residence in washington, d.c. it simply reads," for i know the plans i have for you, plans to prosper you, and not to harm you. plans to give you a hope and a future." you know, in november, i believe with all of my heart that the people of florida and the people of this country voted to give america a president with the strength, the courage and the vision to make america safe again. you voted to give us a new leader who will make america prosperous again. and i know in my heart, with your continued faith and support, together we will make

america great again. thank you very much. thank you for being here. god bless you and god bless america. ♪ all right, vice president there, mike pence, speaking in jacksonville, florida, at a paper plant there. our richard lui picking it up for stephanie gosk as we continue to watch what is going to be the grand sales plan as there is a proposed vote from what we hear, our sources here at nbc news, there will be a vote in the house on thursday. taking it to a very important state in the election, as you were watching, if you're just joining us, the first part very much like a campaign rally. took a little bit of time, the vice president, to what is at hand, what they are definitely watching in the beltway and across the country. and as the potential vote on the ahca, the replace -- repeal and replace plan for obamacare. still with us is bloomberg's politics, kevin cirilli, vice

news's santoro and senior editor, beth fewy. great group to get some reflexes on what we just heard. let's start with you on this, kevin. he is basically hitting all the notes that we have heard coming from the white house. is he the right salesman in chief we often will put in front of or after the word vice president? >> well, a couple of weeks ago, he was in kentucky. now, of course, he's in florida, trying to take this case directly to the american people. he said, quote, unquote, the obamacare nighttime is about to end. but i've got to be honest. the sources that i speak with within the republican party on capitol hill tell me that they're not sure this house speaker paul ryan plan will be able to pass the senate. here's why. you have people like senator rand paul, who say the plan is not conservative enough, and then you have people like senator dean heller, senator susan collins, a bit more moderate republicans, who are concerned, quite frankly, that

the aspects of the affordable care act or obamacare, that are popular, will put them in a tough political spot in mid terms in 2018. >> i also want to bring in mary an anna ancio. as the vice president finished off his speech, which ran for oh, about 20 minutes or so. what did you hear, and what stood out for you in the message that was given by the vice president, again, as he's trying to get out the word, trying to rally the folks on the ground to perhaps reach out to their own representatives to say vote yes on this? >> reporter: so you're absolutely right, richard. i just hopped on after the vice president spoke. and i was actually at the rally he had, the event he had in louisville, kentucky, last weekend. and i heard some of those same notes as your guest was mentioning from last weekend, you know, we heard some of the same phrases, the obamacare

nightmare will soon come to and ch an end. this is why obamacare doesn't work. he also admitted this was going to be a battle in washington, d.c. but he also sends a change in tone after that cbp report, congress budget office report came out this week. there is a change in tone, where he said, you know, there are amendments that need to be made. we need to sit down with members of congress and change a couple of things for this plan to work. and he also made, of course, a very tailored pitch to florida small business owners, who were in attendance here today. in particularly, we spoke to one gentleman who was here, a cancer patient, and he told us, you know, that for him, as a person here in jacksonville, florida, one of the things he disliked the most about obamacare was the fact that he either had to have obamacare or he would get fined. and you also saw vice president pence making a reference to that. and, again, making a reference to those amendments that they need to make in order for this

bill to pass and how they will let each state just sort of be flexible and more flexible in terms of the kind of plans they will offer. you also saw that he was introduced by governor rick scott, florida governor rick scott, who has said in the past that obamacare must be scrapped. but he was also called the new health care bill a, quote, work in progress. so i don't know if you were able to hear some of the governor's remarks, but he didn't actually pull his full weight behind the health care bill either. here in florida, you're seeing some gop members of congss, like i will anna ross leighton saying she flat out won't vote for the bill. and then mario diaz, other gop members of congress, saying they still have some, quote, serious concerns about this bill. so republicans here in florida, 16 congressional members here in florida who are republican, you're seeing that same tension that we're also seeing across the country here in the sunshine

state. and that's why you have the vice president here in jacksonville this afternoon. richard? >> i know that it's loud and there is a little bit of a delay here. but since you're on the ground and there trying to make that distinction between what the reaction is from small business owners versus those who are everyday citizens, what's the difference in the reaction that you have heard on the ground there from the vice president's message, from the president's message, for that matter, that this is a good thing for both small businesses, that this is also a good thing for everyday citizens? >> reporter: so right here, the select group of invitees in this paper supply company behind me, they were obviously selected for a reason. they want obamacare scrapped. and they wanted to hear exactly what mike pence had to say. here i saw just more, you know, president trump supporters versus that event in kentucky

last weekend, where we saw more insurance companies here. i just saw more everyday people who are in support of scrapping obamacare and getting on board with this new health care bill. but, again, florida is a state where you have the highest number of obamacare enrollees. so even in districts that, you know, might have voted for president trump and are supportive of president trump, you see a lot of senior citizens, low-income floridans, pregnant women, disabled people, who are still concerned about this new gop health care bill, and what that would mean for their health, and for their pocketbook. richard? >> thank you for that. evan, you were listening to what mary anna was telling us in terms of what the reaction is on the ground. so important. that this is why that the vice president is there. that he is in florida, specifically. and speaking of governors, rick scott, who was introducing the vice president, there are republican governors that are not in support of the ahca,

which was reported towards the end of this being with. we have john kasich, michigan's rick snyder, nevada's brian sandoval and arkansas aisha hutchinson. putting that together here, what's going to balance it out when you have strong moderate voices saying this is not good, necessarily? evan? >> look, the central problem for this has been from the very beginning that republicans all want to get rid of the obamacare law. but they can't agree on what they want to get rid of it and replace it with. that's still true now, even with this bill on the table. i'm not -- i was not on the ground as your reporter was, but i was struck by two moments from pence's speech. there is the line where says we need to repeal obamacare, the crowd goes while, and the line where he says we need every republican in florida to get behind our bill. crickets. this is not -- this is the problem. the problem is, they have an idea that everybody likes. they have a bill that much fewer people like. >> that is not what they want to see. and that has been -- what you're defining so well here, the

problem, in the beltway here. beth, he picked florida. he picked jacksonville. clearly a friendly ground for him as he's coming out with this message. but the question is, when you have strong voices, and we'll go back to those four governors, voices that resonate across america saying ts isot good. they're having a tough tim really trying to bring this together. >> right. and he didn't go to a state with one of those strong governors. he went down to florida governor, rick scott, did not expand medicaid in this state under obamacare. but as was said, in many other ways, the law is benefitting regular folks in florida, and florida does have many, many retirees in this bill and its scoring and analysis has shown to be -- it's going to have an abject effect on older people, primarily. it's going to -- it's going to help younger, healthier people, who are wealthier, frankly, at the expense of older, sicker people. so no doubt that a lot of florida residents are very concerned with this. you mentioned jacksonville. that's a big military community. there are a lot of people on

military health care there. and very affordable, very good health care, paid for by the government. so it's a funny thing that you're hearing sort of this notion that government health care cannot possibly do what it needs to do for the american people when you have a lot -- a large population getting very good government-sponsored health care. >> so kevin, as you are relating just a second ago, the vice president as potentially the salesman in chief here, but is he not the right person that we need to hear more from, president trump, he's the one that can really move this past middle? >> well, i think that we're also going to have have to hear from, again, some of the senate leadership. i think beth makes a great point about the gubernatorial concerns across the country about how this plan specifically impacts medicaid and several prominent republican governors throughout the country have risen concerns about this, including in a white house meeting with president trump and vice president pence several weeks ago. when the vice president was on capitol hill the other week, he

alluded in his priority private meetings about, again, negotiating. again, you talk to some of these prominent tea party members and they have concerns about how this institutionalizes some of the taxes, such as the cadillac tax. so when you look at the nonpartisan congressional budget report, republicans like the fact this is going to create a $337 billion offset to the budget. they don't like the fact this would, in the first year, cause 14 million americans to lose their health insurance. this is the time for vice president mike pence, as well as the apparatus surrounding him, to get to work -- forget about the house. the real work is going to begin in the senate. they only have a 52-48 majority, richard. any deflections are really going to negatively impact their chances from getting this across the finish line. because they can't get to tax reform unless they get to health care. >> so you're saying forget about the house. but we can't, because they do have this vote on thursday, and if it doesn't happen, it's never going to make it to the senate. but you're right, we have our eyes on the senate right now.

the reason i go back to the house specifically, evan, is when we look at the freedom caucus, and that's not -- that block of 40 or 50 votes in the house, depending on what you're looking at, nbc news is hearing about 20 right now or going to say no to this. 22 is that maccic line in the sand here. also other reports from cnn and buzzfeed saying they don't have the votes. and so the freedom caucus is something to be watched very clearly as we move closer to thursday. >> well, you know what's funny about this, if you go back to 2009 health care debate, that speech that the vice president made, this conversation we're having about votes and county votes, 1, 2, 3, 4 bases is very similar to the last time congress tackled health care. and that was with a party in charge would was really interested in creating a new social program. now you've got a party in charge that doesn't really want to do that very much. and a president that's promised very much different things all over the map of what he wants to with health care. this is why they're having a hard time. they cannot unify their message on this. and so whether or not the votes

are going to be there, they count them one by one, that's not the kind of unified republican conversation about health care they need to convince everybody this is the right way to go. >> yeah. and we may be too far -- if you will, down that process, beth. because as you know, all the years you're reporting on the beltway here, they were not including key members as they were drafting this. that was the complaint. along the way. thursday, during the markup, almost no major adjustments to the ahca, which was surprising to some here. is it already baked then, because it's too late? they didn't bring in the right stakeholders earlier on? come thursday we're going to see it fail? >> it's funny. you have seen it handed back and forth. paul ryan says this is a plan we have drafted in the white house. the white house not embracing it, calling it trumpcare, this is congressman ryan's plan. >> ryan care. >> ryan care. so in terms of really getting the right people behind it, we need to see that from president trump between now and thursday

if that vote is going ahead on thursday. >> is it too late? >> no, it's not too late. we have already seen -- he made a big show of bringing in members of the republican study committee, another group of powerf repubcahouse members, to the whiteou on friday. and he pronounced they werell on board with him now. all of them had had misgivings beforehand and now because of his five minutes of talking to them, he changed all of their minds. we'll see. we'll see if that comes about. >> i remember that headline. >> it seems he has that power and if he chooses to press his presidential purgative forward with these republicans and said i need you, it can probably pass. that's what congressman ryan needs right now. >> he's a wheeler and dealer, certainly. >> he knows how to make a deal. >> he can givum some things we don't know he'll give up, at least by our cribbing we're looking at so far. great conversation. thanks so much, beth, evan and kevin. have a fantastic -- and marianna, as well, on the ground for us, watching the vice president. appreciate all four of you.

now i would like to bring in andy slavin, from the centers on medicare and medicaid services. and thank you so much. under president obama. thanks for being here, andy. i want to first off get your reaction to what we have just been discussing. where you think we are in the process. because you saw it with obamacare. >> yeah, thanks, richard. thanks for having me here. you know, i think the president and the vice president and congressional leadership, you know, they're asking their members to take a very challenging vote. i think the number of the day is -- we saw that an estimated 55,000 people per district, per congressional district, are going to lose coverage under this new plan. and seniors and a lot of low-income and rural people are going to be squeezed. their pocket books are going to be squeezed pretty significantly. that's a very difficult first domestic vote for the administration to ask their congressional rank and file to take. and i think that's why you're seeing the squealing that you're seeing this week.

>> yeah. would you say we're in the beginning, the middle or the end of what will be the end of this bill? >> yeah, so i think it really is going to depend on how much political muscle the president decides to put behind it. i think a lot of people -- there was an editorial in the "wall street journal" from peggy noonan and many others calling on the president to take a step back, look it at the data coming out about the actual harm the bill causes. and either make some adjustments or more importantly, step back and say not good enough. reach out to chuck schumer and the democrats and say, you know what, we can surgically fix the things that are challenges here. it's not perfect. but it's done a lot of good. and let's focus surgically instead of trying to fulfill a political wish that the people who want to reform medicaid and do big tax cuts are trying to do. because that's what this bill really is. >> all right. put on your surgeon gloves then, if you can, andy. what would be one thing that you

would change here? one thing that would work for both sides of the aisle that this president can then go out and have a little bit of success? >> well, actually, there is something in this legislation that's $100 billion or so that's aimed for the states. what it's really targeted to do and that can work is increase the subsidies to the middle class and put in place state-based reinsurance pools to defray the risk. remember, over the last seven years, republicans have not only fought against the aca, but they defunded about $10 billion that was intended for rate stabilization. i think if they just started to restore that, and allowed the states to spend that money, i think you would see a nice surgical strike. and remember, the cbo, s&p and others have said that the aca is on stable ground now. so i think there's not major surgery required. i think there's some targeted areas that would really do a lot of good. >> what do you think of these two? the president and house republican study committee agreed to two changes as beth

was alluding to here. first, offering states the option to block grant medicaid. that's one suggestion. second, incentives for states to include work requirements for medicaid. they had agreedpon that. what do you think about those two ideas? >> well, look. i think the first one is a really, really challenging idea. in fact, probably, in my opinion, and i think the opinion of many who have watched the medicare and medicaid programs over the decades, be one of the most significant disruptive activities that you could take. now, what it means is, they're taking a 25% cut to medicaid, and then they're saying in addition to that cut, we're going to put a cap on that cut. and remember, medicaid is a program that pays for half of the long-term care in this country. half of the births in this country. if you told governors, hey, we're going to cap what's cut and spent, the governors wouldn't be able to function. so i think that's why the governors are really pushing back. so a cap of any kind, like a block grant, is a really bad

idea. you know, in terms of work requirements, you know, there's many of us that believe that, first of all, many, many people, most of the people in medicaid, already work. secondly, we have to really ask ourselves, do we want to live in a country where we hold out the prospect of getting cared for based upon whether people do things like pick up trash or some sort of free service, which is where these sometimes end up. i tend to say, no. i am of the school that health care is something that we shouldn't tie to conditions. i think there are other people that disagree. but that's certainly my view. >> andy slavsit, former director of the medicaid services under the obama administration. thank you so much. >> thank you, richard. next, rex tillerson's bold new stand against north korea. the secretary of state secretarying military action is still on the table.

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visit booking.com. booking.yeah. secretary of state rex tillerson, is urging china's cooperation in dealing with north korea's nuclear program. tillerson meeting face-to-face with chines chinese diplomats. urging the u.s. to remain cool-headed. the meeting comes one day after tillerson visited the demilitarized zone, the dmz, between north and south korea and issued a fierce new warning that all options are on the table when it comes to dealing with the north, including military options. china is the north's biggest source of diplomatic support and economic assistance. >> i think we share a common view and a sense that tensions on the peninsula are quite high right now. and that things have reached a rather dangerous level.

and we have committed ourselves to do everything we can to prevent any type of conflict from breaking out. >> joining me now, stephan haggard, director of the korea program at uc san diego. stephan, thanks for joining me right now. what do you make of this comment, all options are still on the table, when we watch the tension level, if you will? do we just go up by 10 or 20%, just because of that one statement? >> no, i don't really think so. the term "all options on the table" is almost like a cliche. of course, any incoming administration is going to want to look at all of the options, including military ones. but that doesn't necessarily mean that those military options are good options. and so if you read between the lines of tillerson's comments, both in tokyo and in seoul, i think he was really delering a little bit more cautious ssage. >> there are those that are a lile more critical, though, of

th statement. they have some concerns at the level of tension in the -- if you will, asian theatre has now just gone up by a major level. you're saying no, though. why are you a little bit more, if you will, pragmatic about what has just happened? >> i think i'm more pragmatic, if you want to call it that, because this is really all geared around the mar-a-lagoa summit, which is coming up between presidents trump and xi next month. and that's really what all of this show is about. to try to send signals of american concern so that the chinese will get on board and take a little bit more forward posture in trying to get north korea back to the table. i think that's really what the game is here. >> is this really then what you're saying about china and trying to get them to, will you acquiesce to certain events in the united states, not just north korea. >> yes. but north korea is at the top of that list. it's interesting how trade issues and others have fallen down the list of priorities as

the north korea issue is heated up. but basically, the chinese would like to see the united states be more forthcoming and get back to a negotiating posture. and what the u.s. wants the chinese to do is basically deliver north korea back to the bargaining table. the north koreans have been testing their missile nuclear program but showed very little interest in actually going back to negotiations like we had in the obama and bush administrations. >> international policy is economic policy. you have heard that before. is this really what that play is? >> well, i don't think the economic issues here are the ones between the united states and china. the economic issues are the ones between china and north korea. >> right, right. >> because president trump, in my view, is actually right on this one point. i disagree with him on a lot. but clearly, china has tremendous amount of leverage and they really haven't exercised it to the exorbitaten

would like to see it do so. >> as we watch from the outside and look in, one of the criticisms is, well, the united states does need to step up and be more forward in the issue of north korea, not only because of north korea itself, but because of the region of potential, if you will, arms race. also looking at north korea, as a purveyor of north korea on black markets. >> absolutely. all of those are issues of concern. i think the one thing that disappointed me a little bit about tillerson's comments is he didn't say much about how we're going to get back to negotiations on this issue. and, in fact, both nikki haley and the secretary said explicitly that the time for negotiations wasn't right. but obviously, north korea is not going to disarm unilaterallily. so we're going to have to figure out some way to get back to a negotiation process. even while we're pressuring the north koreans. >> so kim jong-un, very unpredictable. some might say when we look at the new president of the united states, the two of them may not be right, or they may be the perfect, if you will, interlock

lars here. >> that's a funny way of looking at it. i hadn't thought of that. i think kim jong-un is actually a little more predictable than people sometimes think. i mean, in the end, he's really trying to maintain his regime in the face of substantial outside pressures. nuclear weapons have been one way to do that. and he's trying to get the attention of the rest of the international community to focus on him. maybe that is a little bit like our president at the moment. but in the end, it's going to have to come down to a question of negotiations, is whether we can get the north koreans to cease and desist. and we are going to have to make some concessions to get that. >> from the university of san diego, where it's always sunshine in that part of the state. thank you so much for your perspective today. >> pleasure to be on. >> alrighty. just one day of hosting angela merkel, president trump saying it's time to pay up. tweet, quote, despite what you heard from the fake news, i had

a great meeting. nevertheless, germany owes vast sums of money to nato and the united states must be paid more for the powerful and very expensive defense it provides to germany. that was in his tweet. those tweets, it seems, are part of the president's effort to double down on his demand for money following this statement during a joint press conference with merkel, where trump rallied or rather railed against nato members, urging them to, quote, pay their fair share. >> i reiterated to chancellor merkel my strong support for nato, as well as the need for our nato allies to pay their fair share for the cost of defense. many nations owe vast sums of money from past years. and it is very unfair to the united states. these nations must pay what they owe. >> joining us now to discuss is msnbc contributor and world news he had core for the daily base,

christopher dickey. chris, thanks for being here. you have seen the pictures here of angela merkel and donald trump. and we can probably spend days analyzing just the facial expressions from the two of them. but what do you make of what the two represent? you now have, if you will, the representative of what the "new york times" is calling liberal globalism, and then you have what might represent nationalism internationally at the moment, sitting across from each other. what does this mean for europe when they see these two ideas standing next to each other? >> well, i think, if you look at angela merkel's facial expressions, what you begin to understand is what you can also understand from what was said at the press conferee in public. which is that donald trump really doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's just making things up. when he talks about germany and other countries owing money to nato, he talks about it as if

it's dues at mar-a-lago. well, it's not. that's not the way things go. direct payments to nato? nobody is behind significantly in direct payments to nato. the issue is whether people -- the various governments of nato will increase their defense spending to a level of 2% of gross domestic product. that's not back dues. that's a goal. it's set, germany has agreed to it. and all the other countries in nato have agreed to it by 2025. so what is he talking about? that's one question. then when you talk about europe, just generally, he acts as if he wants to make bilateral trade negotiations with every nation in europe. merkel was very blunt about that. we're not going to do by lot relieses between germany and the united states. we're going to do european union negotiations with the united states. that's how germany works, and that's how europe works. and trump just ignores that. i think the bottom line is, and you'll hear this, i'm sure at

the brussels forum this coming week. is that merkel thinks that trump is out to destroy europe on the one hand, and that he actually doesn't know how europe works or nato works, on the other hand. >> what do you think, chris, was the take-away from this week with angela merkel and the president, as well as the statements regarding the u.k.'s specific involvement in one of the, if you will, local controversies being looked into -- alleged? >> well, again, it's just this constant barrage of tweets, mainly. but also statements like the one at the press conference by president trump that leave the europeans wondering if he's -- if he's not knowledgeable or if he's, in fact, nuts. and they really don't know who they're going to deal with in this administration. we have been hearing some statements in asia from tillerson that sound rather secretary of state-like. but generally the state

department is being undermined and tillerson relegated to a sideshow in many respects. who do they listen to, who do they talk to, when they want to call washington, who do they call? steve bannon? or who? if it's trump, he may tell them one thing, as long as he's face-to-face, and then tweet something quite different. if he really meant he had a great relationship with merkel, they had a great meeting, why was he tweeting about nato when he felt people didn't get his point about past deuce? >> christopher dickey, always a pleasure. world news editor for the daily beast there in paris. thank you so much, sir. the justice department provides the house and senate intelligence committees with documents on president trump's wiretapping claim. just days before fbi director, james comey, testifies on capitol hill. got a preview of that potential explosive testimony after this. are your allergies holding you back

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we're less than 48 hours away from fbi director james comey testifying before the house intelligence committee. he sure to face some tough questions on president trump's controversial allegations that former president obama wire tapped his trump tower offices. obama has rejected that accusation. so could we finally get some concrete answers on the explosive allegations when comey testifies? joining us, "new york times" national security reporter, matthew rosenberg and former fbi double agent and author of "how to catch a russian spy." two big powerhouses here. let's start with you, if we can, here, matthew. what's going to happen on monday? what do you expect james comey to say? >> you know, i think it's a sign of just how convoluted and confused the whole conversation around this russia issue has become. is that the question for monday, is whether or not comey and mike rogers are going to deny the wiretapping claims have been made by the white house? all indications we have is there

is no evidence of this. that it didn't happen. and, you know, how far will comey go? what will he be willing to say, what won't he be willing to say? i think this is really the big question hanging over the hearing right now. >> yeah, i agree. the second part of that is, is there an investigation? forget the warrant. is there an investigation into donald trump or his associates? and i think that's where we start running into problems. look, law enforcement is -- loathes actually saying whether there is an investigation. i think the fbi has been painted into a corner here, where they're going to have to potentially confirm or deny there is a larger -- investigation. >> is there a possibility where james comey will not answer that question? >> well, i think, yes. i think that in regards to the actual investigation, the larger investigation at large, i think the fbi has been very carefully trying to avoid answering that question in public. the question about wiretapping, i don't know how you can essentially surgically remove that. if there was a wiretap, presumably enough evidence to go

to a court. and if there wasn't, then you're essentially saying there is not an investigation. so it's a very tricky way to have to answer this. there is no -- they're going to have to -- essentially by answering that question, they are addressing the larger question, which we all want to know, is there an investigation here. >> you know, matthew, on the outside of the center ringing around the wiretap is the russian connection question. and that really might be the show tomorrow. right? the follow-on questions here, matt, about that space, not specific necessarily to the wiretap. >> it's a tremendously complex and politically complicated issue. on the one hand, republicans in congress are not eager to get into that issue at all. the democrats are just excited that's the first thing they want to do. and if there's no way that comey wants to get into the details of this investigation in an open hearing, you know, in any regular investigation, they are loathe to comment on it while it's happening. in a counter intelligence investigation, it's the last

thing they want to do. these things happen in secret. they can take years to yield results. they rarely ever do yield results, let's be honest about that. and so the director of the fbi sitting there, being asked, is there an investigation. and this is probably the most kind of sensitive investigation the fbi does. >> so, again, moving outside of the wiretapping question, let's say they get past that pretty quickly here. then the questions could be, because they can ask anything they want here. the russian connection question about the campaign and thereafter. >> absolely. mean, that seems to be the logic california extension of where this is going. and i think we're going to have some discussion about that. and, be again, i think comey is going to be in a very difficult position, which is, you know, he doesn't want to answer those things. and, again, there is -- there is counter intelligence operations, there is counter intelligence investigations. also just traditional investigations. and i think, you know, this is -- doing this in an open hearing could be, frankly, problematic. >> what would be that question, then that you would ask if you were sitting here in this committee meeting here, and listening to the testimony that

would directly answer that question that we have had about the russian connection question? >> the first question, undoubtedly has to be, is there evidence, have you seen any evidence that would indicate there was collusion between trump or his associates and the russians. that's the -- at its core, that's the -- that's the $64,000 question. >> matt? >> that is the exact question to ask. there are now follow-ups to ask specifics about what was -- what kind of collusion was there, if there were contacts, do they represent collusion, something else. they want to know about business dealings. we already know his former campaign chairman, paul mat afor, did have dealings in ukraine. roger stone in contact with the cutout to get some information from the hacked e-mails out there. are these russian intelligence operatives, were they knowingly in contact? these are questions people want to ask. and they're really difficult for the direor of the fbi to

answer in the middle of an ongoing inveigation. and i can see a lot of evasion taking place. and a lot of pointed quest coming at them. and there's also the leak issue. that on the republican side, they want to know about leaks. and why this information is getting in public. and that's going to be an issue that i think is going to come up as well. >> yeah, naveed, yesterday on the rachel maddow show, if you were watching it, a former clint official breaking down on how materials are obtained, related to the russian government reportedly ended up in wikileaks. and will that be a big headline? because, again, anything can happen tomorrow. on monday, excuse me. >> absolutely. and i think, you know -- i think we're going to get -- we're going to get some answers. but again, as with the tax returns, we're going to have a lot more questions. and i think that we should prepare ourselves, the public should prepare themselves, there is going to be a lot of stuff that's left on the table. that comey isn't going to come out here and necessarily quell the public thirst for information on this. you know, look, there is just so many questions here. and at the end of the day, as my panelist indicated, proving this

stuff, and showing whether there was something illegal that actually happened, these acts may not rise to that level. but, man, they sure are politically untenable. but at the end of the day, people still voted for donald trump, knowing that he had this baggage coming into the office. >> c-span ratings and msnbc ratings going through the roof tomorrow. >> absolutely. >> on monday. keep on thinking tomorrow, because -- can't wait for it myself. matthew rosenberg from the "new york times" and former fbi double agent, naveed jamele. stephanie gosk will have her riveting interview with alex marlow, 31-year-old editor-in-chief of breitbart news. we'll be right back.

nave . vice president mike pence was in jacksonville, florida, today, as you see there. he was trying to rally support under republicans' health care bill, days before the house is set to vote on it, we hear. will the gop have enough support to get that bill through the house? more on that, after this. dear predictable,

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florida is actually a textbook example of everything that's wrong with obama care. the truth is florida can't afford obama care anymore, and job createors in florida can't afford it either. >> that was vice president mike pence. he was speaking just at the top of the hour making his pitch for the american health care act, and he was in florida doing that. the numbers, they are tight when it comes to the votes. according to our nbc news count, 20 house republicans are planning to vote no on the bill 22 republicans say no, thenal

bill fails. joining us now to discuss our molly hooper, congressional correspondent, sean sullivan, reporter for the washington post. molly, there's a lot of counts out there. what are you seeing in terms of where we're at? we are counting 20. there are some saying it could be 40 that are saying no. >> exactly. every vote counts right now up on capitol hill. as late as friday afternoon, even after the house took its last votes of the day, i was watching in the house chamber the chief with counters, the whip counters, steve scalise and patrick mchenry were working various members button hoiling them on the house floor, trying to reassure their colleagues. you know, i was talking to rep tom cole, who is a deputy whip as well. he said right now we don't think we are at the magic number of 216, but we'll be working through the weekend, through next week, and ultimately if it needs to happen, maybe president trump should come up and talk to the house republican conference up on capitol hill to make his

final pitch, but they're getting closer. when you look at who is the speaker right now, paul ryan, this could be the -- they're trying to get the votes here. >> this is really shaping up as the ultimate test of paul ryan's leadership, and i do agree with molly. i think it is very, very tight right now. i think republican leaders are confident that they are getting closer to the threshold that they need, but i don't know that they're necessarily there yet. is this group wants to see an even more aggressive assault on the affordable care act. the question is can he compromise that paul ryan, that president trump, that other republican leaders come together around on wednesday when this goes to the rules committee. is that going to be enough to

get enough of the members. the answer could be whether this thing passes or whether it fails completely in the house. >> the freedom house caucus, molly, when you look at them, the leadership representative mark meadows saying to cnn, that was talking to us earlier on buzzfeed, that he has the votes. not specific about this. he has the votes here to defeat this bill. i mean, he is intimating the 30, 40, 50 range. >> well, that is true. on the other hand, if you look at how involved president trump has been -- this is actually something that gop leaders are pointing to they're finally seeing trump as negotiator in chief. members who had under the previous leadership you should john boehner and ever since 2010 have been cut out of these type of negotiations for big bills.

he is reaching out and having direct talks with people. this is huge for leaders up on capitol hill because even if maybe it doesn't work this go-round with this measure, going forward those members in the freedom caucus will start to feel more included and help to heal these fissures that have been damaging to the republican conference. >> is donald trump, sean, the person that can actually. >> he has not decided wer to call it trump care. it is at this point, if you will, ryan care. does that show us that he is not fully in? if he were to be in, he could swing it over? >> well, if he can't be the one that pushes this over the top, then really nobody can. i don't think. there is a chance that he can be that because, remember, a lot of these conservative members who are either hold-outs or

skeptical about supporting this because they don't think it goes far enough come from districts that trump won comfortably. they come from districts where trump is really, really popular. they have a dilemma. do they want to cross this president and go against a bill that he supports? it's a tough decision, and i think for him to lean on them personally, for him to reach out on them personally, you know, certainly does apply for pressure. if he willing to do that, it could work. >> molly, 15 seconds. what can the president do? >> what can the president do? what he is doing right now. he is relishing this role, from what i understand, behind the scenes. he is actually really embracing this role. again, as negotiator in chief and aside from the policy, he just wants to win and get a deal done, and he is enjoying that and embracing it, and that's what leaders see. >> and they want a win from the white house. >> thank you both. >> thank you. >> all right. that's it for me this hour. i'm richard lui.

i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. i'll see you then. up next stephanie gosk with more on the fight and more ononday. stick around

hello. i'm stephanie gosk. here's what we're following this hour. a busy day for the trump administration. mike pence in florida today making the push for the republican health care bill to small businesses and conservatives that have been critical of the plan. now that the bill has cleared key hurdles in the house, republicans are hoping to get into the floor for a vote on thursday. rex tillerson talking tough on north korea. the secretary of state in china today after a two-day visit to south korea where he said all options are on the table for dealing with the north and its nuclear weapons program. president trump says cna shouldo me to help with north korea. now chinese leaders are