car crash there nearly 20 years ago. he and his wife received a warm welcome and they met with francois hollande. that's it for us this hour here own msnbc. stay with us for more ranges. joy reid is next. a bloomburg analysis shows counties with working class counties would do far less well than affluent counties. this doesn't seem to be consistent with the last election of america. >> a lot of things aren't consistent. >> that was donald trump acknowledging he knows the people most responsible for delivering him the presidency would suffer the most, your honor, his health care plan. in the spirit of that refreshing moment of honest about health care policy. looets keep the truth train

running through the gop talking points about obamacare. >> obamacare is in a death spiral. >> obamacare is in what everyone seems to want to call it death spiral. >> death spiral. >> obamacare is in a death spiral. >> obamacare is in a death spiral. death spiral. death spiral. it's in a death spiral. >> in the republicans's nightmare scenario, healthy people would buy out and force companies to cover a pool of sicker people. they would push healthier people out of the marketplace until it spiraled uncontrollably in the stratosphere leading to a total collapse of the market. republicans have used the threat of the death spiral to rationalize their perennial thirst to get rid of obamacare, a goal now in reach as they drag their replacement bill toward donald trump's desk. but saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. the hoards of people running away from skyrocketing premiums

saifrm has not happened. obamacare enrollment surpassed the numbers of the previous year. the the subsidies campaigned with the penalties by uninsured people are anticipated to cause sufficient demand for insurance by people with low health care expenditures for the market to be stable. in regular people language, one of the best things republicans can do to prevent this death spiral and to keep the market stable would be to leave obamacare in place. joining me are political consultant tara dow dell, john gar men dickerson wendell potter, and author of deadly spin, and also with me is former vermont governor, howard dean.

wendell, just this notion that i keep hearing on the tv. i got to exercised about it i wrote an entire "daily beast" column about it. this idea obamacare is kploegtd and in a death spiral which is just not true. do you think that people just believe it or can you explain to the audience whether or not it is? >> first of all, no, it is not. if it were, it is because of what is happening on capitol hill now and because of actions by some republicans in this senate, marco rubio in particular that has led to the destabilization of the individual marketplace. you said saying something over and over again doesn't make it true, but there's strategy as it was during the health care reform was to not repeat things over and over again and they

believed it. there's no truth whatsoever that obamacare is not in a sudden death spiral. very possibly and likely if they proceed with the legislation that's before the house now it will absolutely lead to that, or it will at best lead to people who really need access to care not being able to afford it. >> your colleagues are the ones who are on tv every day saying obamacare is collapsing. you have sean spicer the president's spokesman saying it before. that is the talking point people say. if the big crisis that republicans claim they have to rescue us is the imminent collapse of the affordable care act which isn't happening, why is there demand to support the bill and trump has signed onto this, that states be allowed to impose requirements for adults receiving care and getting a

fixed block grant. if the crisis at hand is that the individual marketplace is collapsing, why is it that your colleagues on the other side of the aisle this the fix is to say there's a bunch of welfare queens out there to make them go to work to get medicaid and we have to cut medicaid. >> they're looking for some reason, some sound bite that the american public would buy into. wendell's absolutely correct. i was an insurance commissioner for eight years in kraeflcalifo f. you could very well have a death spiral, but right now, no, there's no death spiral. with regard to the welfare thing, welfare reform went into place in 1998, and there are

work requirements and education requirements, there are job preparation requirements in the welfare program. the expansion of the medicaid program are for the working poor, working poor. so what are we talking about here? this is just foolish arguments looking for a sound bite that somehow they can hang their repeal of the affordable care act on what is a disaster for 14 million people just nine months from now, 2018, 14 million people will lose their health care. that's a mileage disaster for a large, large population of americans. >> absolutely. we need to show this chart that shows how many people have insurance under the affordable care act projected all the way out to 2026. you can see the blue line is the affording showing the uninsured rate dropping. 8 million then 12 million people per year, and how it would spike under the gop health plan. tara, this is being hung on the

talking point of trying to use the particular old welfare queens talking point to convince people toing giving up their own health care. medicaid, the expansion was for the people who make 138% of the poverty rate. >> thrkd for republicans in the past so they keep coming back to it because it has been an effective strategy, particularly with their base. everything they said about the affordable care act is actually true about trump care. all things they accused the affordable care act of being are things that trump care actually is. we all know. the information is actually finally getting out to the public. that's why when you look at the polling you see the affordable care act is polling very well. people want to keep it. trump care is polling terribly, or, as i call it, the

unaffordable care act. $66 million attacking the foorld over and over again with the same talking points. but they have to do that. they have the demonize it in order to take the case to get rid of it. the problem is it's no longer working despite spending $66 million versus $55 million for democrats. people saying we need to fix it, there's not that much that needs to be fixed. it works. >> there are pieces of the affordable care act that could be fix. am i wrong in saying one of the biggest problems is that 19 states rest of to take the medicaid expansion which is responsible for millions and millions of people, i think 5 million to look at florida and texas, don't have insurance because they wouldn't take the money. and you have 30 republicans states refusing to do their own

exchanges. isn't that what's wrong with it? >> the republicans sabotaged it. they all came out opposing the institution. trump care is a disaster. i'm almost wishing that it passes so it hurts the trump camp. but you don't want it because it will hurt the people. the truth is welfare queens was a dog whistle to white working clues people about black people. they're not just people of color anymore. you're not going to get away with welfare queens in kentucky and tennessee and west virginia

anymore because their neighbors are going to be the ones that lose the health insurance and meals on wheels. the koch brothers will get tax cuts. that's where that money is going. they're the ones that are on welfare. >> wendell potter, you do have inside the trump care bill the ability for insurance companies to write off unlimited ceo pay again which was outlaud in the affordable care act. it's a direct transfer of $600 million right into the hands of insurance companies. the polling does show to the point that howard dean and tara have made, 48% believe it will decrease the number of people with insurance. 48% believe it will increase the costs for people who buy insurance and 41% think they'll get higher deductibles.

it's the rust belt that took the money, indiana, kentucky, west virginia that would get hurt the most, right? >> it would hurt people in the south as well too. i'm from tennessee and a lot of my relatives voted for trump. this makes me so mad at how they have been misled. this would represent a huge, huge transfer of income from them to wealthy. it's ironic because the liberals on the west are the ones making the money and the poor folks in tennessee will get screwed. the fingerprints of my colleagues in the insurance industry are all over this bill. it's all there. the only thing they might not like is what they're proposing to do so medicaid. over the years governors, particular republican governors shifted the management of their

medicaid programs to insurance companies. so they stand to lose some money if that happens. otherwise they make out like ban ditz. >> what do insurance companies hate so much about obamacare. >> they don't like consumer pretexts. they don't like it restricts how much they can divert to profits. they can't spend more than 20% of premium dollars on executive order compensation and sales and marketing. they don't like that they can't underwrite like they used to or they can't keep people out of the pool, if you will, who have been sick in the past. before obamacare passed, in my home state of tennessee, blew cross of tennessee in 2011 it was determined that they denied 34% of the applicants. so what they were doing and like

to go back to be able to do is that in whatever they can to keep people out of the pool who really need care. they don't like the fact that they have to sell coverage that has some value to it that love to go back to the days in which they sold junk insurance. they really like the idea of trying to get more people or mig it more add -- these people cannot put money into a health savings account. the people in west manhattan can, but the people in pennsylvania, and wisconsin and michigan, the people who work for a living, they can't do that. >> absolutely. you have the speaker of the house of representatives giddy about the idea of cutting medicaid to the bone and telling

people just put your money in a savings account. how is it your colleagues blithely get away with saying these things and not have it have a reaction? even the lie of etna dropping out? i'm wondering if the democrats are doing enough though push back on these repeated talking points that are lies? >> i think we're in the process of doing that. the public from the polling is becoming wear of what is exactly happening here. there's one lie after another and there's a huge fact that hasn't been discussed, and that is that the trump/ryan legislation is an extraordinarily large tax break for the super wealthy in the nation. they're going to get $300 million of reduced taxes for the 400 wealthiest families in america? did i say millions?

it's billions for sure. trump and his cabinet are going to get a $7 million-year tax break for every year into the future. and the insurance companies get a huge tax break. this is as wendell said earlier a transfer of wealth from the working men and women of america and the poor of america to the super wealthy in america. it is a disgrace in so many different ways. the public is learning we're going to continue to hammer away at this, and make it clear that you're going to under this proposed legislation, you're going to get less, you're going to pay more, and the wealthy are going to get wealthier and the poor are going to get poorer. >> while the wealthy are going to get this huge tax cut, what's going to happen to small businesses, the tax credits that were in there to help small business owners to provide insurance though their employees

is being taken away by trump/ryan care. so you see where the priorities are. small businesses who create more of the jobs who have a bigger burden and less money are going to bear the brunt of these tax cuts for the rich in addition to individuals and families. >> absolutely. well, hopefully we got the word out. tara is sticking around. thank you all. a mega panel to tell the truth about health care. the daley show has its moment of zblechblt here on a.m. joy, we have maxine waters joining us after the break.

i am struck by the fact that males on wheels, for example, will be eliminated by this program. i'm struck by the fact that in home supportive services will be anilelated by this program. what does this say about the president of the united states? we talked about making great again. he's absolutely making america worse than it's been by many, many years with this budget. >> she pulled no punches in her assessment of donald trump's budget in an interview with chedd"cheddar" where it will br havoc on the country. let's talk about that budget because we now are learning that donald trump who said he's 100% on board with the changes that the conservatives in the house want, but those changes are work

requirements for medicaid recipients who are already the working poor, and essentially making medicaid shrink more. they want black block grants limited and they want no more ability to do the expansion. they're trying to make the bill crueller. how do they justify that, your colleagues on the other side of the aisle? >> we have the understand and know what the republican party is. they've never been for the poor and working class. they don't care about these poor people. they want to get rid of medicaid expansion and they don't care what that means. they will cause the states to have to come up with a lot more money that they don't have. they want to put medicaid recipients to work bringing up that old racist argument about

the welfare queen getting something she doesn't deserve. what we're dealing with is the president who is making it clear that he's going to go along with the most conservative element of the republican party and concede that they have a right to make sure poor people are not getting too much from government. >> what's interesting though is that when donald trump was elected, kind of the conventional windows was he up ended the belief that what their base mainly wanted was tax cut for the rich and it showed us in the data that trump voters want federal benefits, they want medicaid and they're on medicare or medicaid. they benefited greatly from obamacare from the medicaid expansion. they want these things. how is it that donald trump is able to turn around and sell

what really is -- he still a billionaire cabinet that is openly saying we don't want to fund males on wheels. i don't understand how donald trump specifically is able to sell that to his base. >> when you talk to some of those who voted for him as it has been shown recently by some of our journalists, he made a lot of promtsz and they believed him. he did a lot of dog whistling. that people are getting more than they deserve and you're not getting enough. this budget is going to hurt the very people who voted for him. talk about those people in small towns and in these agricultural areas where they have not much in the way of health and health clinics and transportation

needs. this budget has a $54 billion increase to the defense establishment. and how do you pay for it? you literally cut all those programs that would benefit the people who need them, the very people in these small towns, and these rural areas that they claim that they wanted to support. so they're going to learn and learn the hard way. and i feel badly for them because they should not be hurt simply because they bought into his promises. but i think what they're going to learn is not only does he have no intention of keeping up with those promises but he never thought about them in the first place. he was appealing to them and now he's not going to deliver to it. >> very wise person named joe said that he can't tell that single mom she's going to pay for sesame street because the

mom in flint has to pay for the wall. that doesn't make sense. i want to go to your tweet about trump's kremlin klan. are your constituents going to the bottom of this plan? >> we have the house and senate intelligence committees getting started on taking a look at what happened with russia and how did they get involved in hacking our dnc and our democrats, et cetera, et cetera, and wanting to know if there was conclusion. i've always said that if they dig deep enough, if they do the kind of investigations that they should be doing, that they're going to find that there was conclusion.

so i'm not convinced that the house committee is going to do very well with this. but i have more faith in the senate committee. i think that this has to be done. if you take a look at those who are surrounding this president both inside his administration and his allies and friends outside of the administration, you'll see all these corrections to oil and russia. when you take a look at the fact they want to have the sanctions lifted so that they can drill oil in the arctic, tillerson is a part of this. he was exceo of exson and he negotiated a deal with putin to drill in the arctic and they will all benefit from it. follow flynn. follow manafort. follow these guys who have some connection and it's been shown, flynn has lied, he's been caught. he did not register as a foreign agency.

he's taken money that he did not disclose, and i think it's all there and we should dig deeper. why, i think my constituents and others should care about this, but this is what i think is so important. i don't think when the truth comes out that even the right wing conservatives who are defending trump at this point are going to be able to stand with him. they claim to be patriots and they claim they mr. r patriot i can than a lot of people. we're going to see who the real patriots are when we unveil this conclusion that i believe is there. in the final analysis they're going to have to move away from him and we will see that he will be in a position where he will meet the standards and the criteria and misdemeanors. >> congresswoman maxine waters never minces words. follow her on her twitter, one

of the hottest follows because she's always got a lot to say. appreciate you, representative. thanks for being here. >> welcome. >> the first amendment and snoop.

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lavend"lavender "lavender". a clown named ronald clump dressed that i can donald trump delivers the video got masonry political nickers in a twist. we've had presidents assassinated before so that's something you should be careful about. meanwhile when tmz asked hip hop artist common about the voorks he said hip hop always is about freeman of expression. that's one of the most powerful things. the video's codirector sent a couple tweets of his own. he tweeted it's just a prank, bro. and after seeing trump's reaction wednesday, he wrote, i think i made some people a little upset. it's just art. our panel, our mega panel will

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>> donnell says he wants to run for president and move into the white house. why haven't? wouldn't the first time i pushed a black family out of they home. [ laughter ] >> donald trump's reaction was a little different on wednesday when snoop dogg roasted him with a satirical music video. trump implied the video was a jailble offense. to settle this rap beef,er the ray, msnbc author and our own ari mi ari mill ber. because we did segregate you,

not on purpose. >> he's got to be at the table. >> since sesame treat is on the table. is there a case to say as donald trump tweeted that there is something jailble about a musical artist dining sort of mock shooting of a president in a video. this is a classic legal situation. murder was the case that they gave me. does murder or attempting murder or inciting get support under these facts of what looks like a cultureral speech or art. in a 1969 case which was a vietnam protester who said he didn't want to get drafted and she said if i do get drafted and they hand me a rifle, the first

person in my sight is going to be lbj. he was prosecuted saying in the connection much politics of rhetoric, of art there's a lot you can say, however distasteful that is protected by the first amendment. we know something the supreme court in the past has said is protected speech which means no, you don't go to jail for it. >> at the same time too, this is the hypocrisy angle as well. ted knew gent has made comments about hanging and shooting both hillary clinton and barack obama. even donald trump has walked out to a rally and said people should use a second amendment as a way to fight hillary clinton.

>> he said he could stand on fifth skpaavenue and shoot some. this moment is really interesting because snoop does it as a joke. it's a prop gun and there's a punch line at the end. it made me think of the history of rappers and the president. there was tremendous anger against reagan and the first bush. that sort of real anger, these people are destroying the country. with clinton and the second burks there was less anger. there should have been more anger with the second bush, but there was less anger. there was too much money in hip hop for there to be real anger. you can't take him seriously because he's a clown, he's a joke. to really shoot him in a video would be like, why are you going that far.

this man isn't worthy of all that and that's where we are with trump. there's a lot of anger about him but he's so ridiculous he becomes a joke. >> he's a guy who used to hang out with rappers, and uncle luke and russell simmons. he's referenced in 60 rap songs. donald trump worships the god of celebrity, more than power and money even. he loves celebrity. he loves to be famous and that's what upsets him about this video, it's not even the mock shooting. donald trump is mad that snoop dogg doesn't like him. >> that's exactly right. >> that's it. he's mad meryl streep doesn't like him because these are people who wants to cultivate

friendships with because he's not a smart man, he has no talent and then he surrounds himself with white supremacists who tell him all these great things about himself and realizes those people are awful. and now he's looking for cool factor and he's mad because snoop doesn't like him. >> michael's making an important point which is a lens into what bothers donald trump. very troubled health care replacement plan could rob millions of people of their health care. he's not tweeting in responding to that which is about his actual job. he's responding to snoop dogg. we did a count, 266 rap songs personally mention donald trump. and they used to do -- >> 266? >> yes, and they used to quite positively. the flipping of the script in music, in culture is something i don't think donald trump really expected. he thought the presidency would be more glorious.

>> he's constantly the victim. he is immediately victim status, even though he supposedly not only the most powerful man in the world or met with the most powerful person in the world this week. >> angela merkel. >> and he's negatively, none of this is reality. >> i have more sympathy for him if his budget proposal wasn't literally trying to take the food out of people's mouths. you are embodying the most retro grade vile forms of american capitalism and if you want me to have some type of feeling around you, a mock shooting, listen, this isn't your real life. this is an actual threat. >> here's the question.

has hip hop been aggressive enough about donald trump? >> no, >> there haven't been that many comment tears about it. >> they weren't aggressive enough about the second yush and they're not aggressive about donald trump and what's happening here. there's serious attacks on the poor. black people felt under assault since november 8th and hip hop is not reflecting that enough. >> you had george w. bush saying the worst moment of his presidency was when kanye said george bush doesn't care about black people. there's been this interaction with hip hop as sort of this negative force they feel they can show themselves to be fighting against. is this just in that line? even president obama went after cana. >> i think he's missed an opportunity here if he's going to do that republican uses hip hop as a convenient villain thing. this is a lame slap at snoop if

he's going to use this as see, lookers they are avenue tars of criminality and poverty. this is certainly not used in a way that -- republicans have loved to use rappers. this misses that opportunity. >> should hip hop do more? >> i don't agree. i think rappers are taking up a challenge to donald trump. i think what we're seeing is hip hop itself is not the same cultureral force. i think yg is completely outspoken and has a song with a title that i can't repeat on air. and people are in concerts, but i think what we're seeing is the ho hip hop doesn't register for people in quite the same way. does migos need to make an anti-trump song? i don't know, maybe.

people are speaking out more and more against trump, celebrities and rappers included. >> the culture is always telling a story and a lot of hip hop story is one of translate sen dance and overcoming and many times it was about wealth because you are making it out. we know donald trump was celebrated as a popular icon before this role. the trump story is still caught in that at a time when you're leading the country. people know what you're going to do for them. >> he wants it to be the '80s forever and ever. never going to be the '80s again. michael and at aray are sticking around. don't miss ari's show, the po t "point" tomorrow. supreme court confirmation clash

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ah yes, it's time to ask our favorite question. who won the week? >> joy, appropriately it's st. paddy's day weekend. congressman joseph kennedy ii i thought really emerged this week and raised his national profile, not only as a young democratic leader to watch but somebody carrying his family's torch as a defender of health care as a right for all americans. he cast the obamacare replacement, also known as trumpcare or ryancare, as an act of malice. >> what's so amazing, fernando, you're in this business of the strategery, is it a good idea

for democrats to launch this young kennedy kennedy as a national figure? he's in the lineage of rfk, brilliant on the topic of health care, young, i think he's two years over the age when you have to run for president. or is the dynastic thing against him? >> i think it's early on. he's a three-term member of congress. for the most part he's kept his head low. but this is the very issue he spoke about in personal terms. someone on his staff's life was saved by obamacare. it's more than appropriate for him to come out and speak on this issue. i think what caught a lot of people's eye is he has that kennedy magic as well, someone to watch in the future, maybe not 2020, but we'll see him on the national ballot one day. >> in camelot? there we go. who won the week? >> the affordable care act won the week. >> what? >> yes, because the cbo came out and said the affordable care act is not collapsing, which we knew, but it validated it with data, that it was not collapsing. also the polling has shown that

the affordable care act has become far more popular and many in the media that did not want to talk about what is actually in the affordable care act have been forced to actually explain to the american public what's in it for them. and now people better understand it. >> we have to be kind of mad that it took seven years for obamacare to win the week. it could have 2001 week a long time ago. >> exactly! he won on health care. >> to say something is in a death spiral, that means it's in a death spiral. >> just because you're trying to kill it doesn't mean it's in a death spiral. >> exactly. >> go on. >> i am growing more and more proud of american journalism, american media, jonathan karl standing up to sean spicer at the press meeting, i was proud of him. man, those germany journalists with the leader of the free world, they were wushds it. they were in trump's face, what about the wire tapping, what about diversity in media. talk about that. they were aggressive, they were lovely, they were winning. i loved their questions.

i want to see more like that from our brothers and sisters in america. >> what i loved too is when the european media asks stuff, they sound so polite. but they were tough, i agree with you. the real winner of the week is the dutch electorate. the dutch electorate wins the week for two reasons. one, they rejected geert wilders who is essentially the trumpian, bannonite candidate, anti-muslim candidate went down in flames. the real reason the dutch electorate wins the week, the 82% turnout. i don't want to say my own country and my own people, but come on, folks, why are we celebrating 60% turnout when the dutch do 82? if they can do it, we need to do it. we need it turn out like the dutch. >> we're both praising europe. >> we're just euro filed.

maybe that's where we want to run when things don't work out. places to hide. thank you very much, you guys are great. that is our show for today. join us tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern and keep it right here on msnbc.

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