as we get them. >> kelly, i know it's all still developing and sister earit's s early. do we have any estimate of how many people are inside? have they begun evacuations? any sense of how that's developing? >> we don't have any information about evacuations. what we've been told is that it is on lockdown. this is a very busy day at parliament. it's wednesday. that's when they hold these prime minister's questions where the prime minister comes in, addresses parliament. you've probably seen this on tv. it gets very heated and there's a back and forth between lawmakers on policy. so this would have been a very, very busy day on parliament. it would have been -- there would have been lots of mps and potentially the prime minister, although we don't have any information on whether the prime minister was in the building at the time. >> kelly cobiella in london, i'm sure we'll be hearing from you in just a few minutes. thank you much. and thanks to all of you tuning

in for this hour of msnbc. i'll turn it over to ali velshi who has joined us on set. >> i've been wanting to be on this set and with you. it's all coming true. have a good afternoon. we're going to continue to monitor this breaking news hallie has been covering with kelly in london. a firearms incident of some sort.ne neely is en route to parliament. a last-minute scramble ahead of a vote by the house of representatives. that vote is set for tomorrow on the republican plan to repeal and replace obamacare. right now it appears they don't have enough votes to pass it. nbc news analysis shows at least 27 republicans are likely to vote no. that leaves them six votes short of the 216 needed for passage. president trump tweeting this morning, quote, big day for health care. working hard. and right now, the house rules

committee is meeting to consider last-minute changes to the bill and approve the final version which is supposed to be voteod tomorrow. the committee will also look at the rules for floor debate ahead of the scheduled debate by the full house which would come exactly seven years to the day since president obama signed his signature health care law. just in the last half an hour, former vice president biden joined democrats on capitol hill to rally the resistance. >> let me cut to the chase. you know, this is -- there's nothing fundamentally changed in the republican party in the last 12 to 15 years. except they got a president now who is a little more colorful. when you cut to the chase, we're talking about eliminating close to a trillion dollars in benefits that go to people to be able to meet the commitment we

made that health care is a right, and we're transferring all of that to the wealthy. that's what this is all about. >> nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker joins us now. great to see you. it's been awhile since i've talked to you. the white house has work to do to get the votes necessary to pass the gop health care in the plan. it was already in doubt in the senate. passed the health care plan in the house. what is happening today to get those 27 votes or more? >> great to see you, ali. according to my sources here at the white house, it is all hands on deck. the president is going to be meet with the freedom caucus today trying to flip some of those who are still hold outs. and we saw his full-court press on display yesterday when he spoke to party leaders last night at that big party dinner. also earlier in the day when he met with republican members of the house. his message to republicans is this is why we were elected. this is what voters want. they want us to repeal and

replace obamacare. if we don't do it, we'll pay at the polls. he threatened some lawmakers could be primaried if they dont get behind this legislation. a lot of lawmakers standing their ground. congressman mark meadows of the freedom caucus saying he's not afraid of losing his job. that he was put in place in order to get a good health care law passed. and a lot of republicans, moderates and conservatives, still have issues with this health care law. they say it's obamacare-lite. so they're not ready to sign off on it. president trump wrote the art of the deal. this is his biggest test yet to see if he can close. >> all right, we're going to keep coming back to you, kristen. i want to go back to london right now. nbc's kelly cobiella is there. we're following reports of possible gunfire, possible firearms, a shooting of some sort possibly outside the uk parliament. details are very sketchy right now. kelly is working this story for us. what do you have? >> well, ali, at this point, we have potentially two different

scenes here. two scenarios. in one place, we're talking about outside the houses of parliament. that's the shot you see now on your screen. that street just outside the houses of parliament. one eyewitness says he saw a man threatening a police officer with a knife. the man was told to drop the knife, this eyewitness says, and shots were fired. this is what we're hearing from one eyewitness that has not been confirmed by met police. they say that they are dealing with, quote, a firearms incident but haven't said any more than that. we are also hearing from the leader of the house of parliament who says an attacker has been shot. not confirmed by police themselves. then we have another potential scene with possible victims on westminster bridge. this is the bridge that goes over the thames and right to the houses of parliament.

i'm sure you've seen it in postcards or if you've visited london, you've visited the bridge. we have reports from a reuters photographer of as many as six people injured. it's not clear how they were injured or what may have happened on that brge. that information, we're still tryi to round up. but six potential injuries from some sort of incident on westminster bridge. at this point, the houses of parliament has been locked down. people from what we understand are not getting in or out. this was a very busy day at the houses of parliament. it's a day in which they have what's called prime minister's questions, where the prime minister comes in to address lawmakers and talk to mps about government policies and is questioned about those policies from 10 downing street, from the prime minister's office. we're not hearing anything officially. we don't know whether the prime minister was necessarily in the houses of parliament. she may not have been at the

time. number 10 downing street, her official residence, is very close so we don't have any more details at this point on where she may be. but met police responding to what they call a firearms incident in the very center of london this afternoon. >> the london ambulance is tweeting they're responding to an incident in westminster. we'll update with more information when they have it. 10 downing street, the prime minister's office has put out a press release to say the prime minister is safe and at work but they will not elaborate on her location. there are unconfirmed reports that she may have been evacuated. we don't know where she is. but just to be clear, you are talking about two different places. firearms regulations are very strict in the united kingdom. most people cannot get access to a handgun. people can't own sporting rifles and shotgups but even police in many cases are not armed.

we are talking about two locations that couldn't be mistaken for each other by onlookers? >> well, it doesn't sound like it because as -- because we're talking about westminster bridge and then somewhere closer to the gates of parliament. so these would be two separate locations. now you know how these things go. sometimes we hear witness statements and things are confused. you have large crowds of people here in the center of london. there would have been tourists around parliament. it could be that people heard two bangs and they also saw some sort of -- or another witness saw some sort of incident close to the houses of parliament all involving one single suspect. that's certainly possible. we'r not heang from the met police as tohether or not there are several people they may be looking for or just one person or two people. again, all we're hearing from them at this point is that there's a firearms incident and

they are aware and are dealing with it. these -- if you're talking about something happening in front of the houses of parliament and something happening on westminster bridge, those are two very distinctive and separate locations, close to each other but very distinctive and separate. >> for viewers who have just joined ulet's reframe this whole thing. bill neely on the way to the scene. at 2:40 p.m. london time, 10:40 a.m. new york time. so less than 30 minutes ago, metropolitan police, the police in london, tweeted they were called at that hour, 2:40 p.m. to reports of an incident at westminster bridge being treated as a firearms incident. then a tweet from london ambulance to say that they are responding to an incident in westminster and will update with more information when we have it. kelly is talking about conflicting reports, possibly conflicting reports. they may both be right, that

there 24 locations that people have either heard or seen something happen. possibly six people injured at one of those locations. the first location outside of parliament may have involved someone threatening a police officer. and as is typical in stories like this, the initial information may not be correct. it evolves certainly when something goes bang, people are not accustomed to that and don't know exactly what they saw. so we're trying to piece this all together. kelly is working it in london. bill neely is on his way to the scene. this happened 30 minutes ago is when london police, metropolitan police got the phone call, the emergency call that something had happened. this is all unfolding very quickly. we're trying to get information. today is an important day, weekly in parliament because it's the question period day. typically it's the prime minister but if not the prime minist minister, it's government officials and senior ministers who would take questions from

their own party and the opposition. so that would be a day many members of parliament are in house. it's a busy, busy day for parliament. what we do have is word from 10 downing, which is the prime minister's office, that prime minister theresa may is safe and at work. safe and at work. we do not know what safe and at work means. we don't know where she is. parliament, 10 downing street, not far away, her office, the residence of the prime minister, or somewhere else. we don't know. the leader of the house of commons has told -- made a statement. we just got this from the bbc. an alleged assailant was shot by armed police. so we are just getting this information. we're getting this from many, many sources. and we're trying to corroborate it and make sense of it. kelly, you still with me? have you got more information? >> okay. malcolm nantz is joining me. you're hearing this as we're hearing it.

we don't know if it's two locations or one. the latest we're getting is the bbc reporting that the leader of the house of commons, that's the parliament, said anallied assailant was shot by armed police in london. how unusual would it be for there to be people, civilians with firearms anywhere around iame, malcm? >> as i analyze the information, what i sort of understood is there's an individual confronted toward the edge of the bridge just as you're approaching parliament. most likely, the armed operation was probably on the part of the police. it would be very hard. it's very rare for an armed shooting inside of england that's not a shotgun or something along those lines. but there would be armed officers all around that perimeter. certainly leading into the parliament area. and they may have seen this assailant, whether he was armed with a knife or gun. that hasn't been confirmed yet. they would have engaged him right there at the end of that bridge. >> we're getting a little more information from the associated press. david livington, the leader of

the house of commons who just made that statement that someone had been shot has said these are his quotes. there are reports of further vile oent incidents in the vicinity. this squares with what kelly cobiella was just telling us. they're getting reports from two different locations but they're not sure what it is. as you said, malcolm, the incident was on the west minister bridge or one of them was on the westminster bridge near parliament. parliament was suspended. britain's intelligence agency says it's too early to determine if this has anything to do with terror. but the house of commons has been suspended. journalists in parliament have been told to stay in their offices. we do not know if there's an all clear. and the press association is saying that two people were seen lying on the grounds of parliament. lying on the ground when you hear gunfire wouldn't be unusual. doesn't necessarily mean people have been shot. >> that's a pretty tight area. i've been around that area quite a bit. you know, everything is going to reverberate off the buildings.

and you may hear one shot that's coming from an armed officer and you could think, you know, whether you're in parliament square or walking down the thames, you may think that you are hearing two or three shots. and that's a very interesting -- i was just looking at the view that we have on the bridge where you see that cluster of officers there. that's most likely where the assailant was engaged. that's pretty far down the bridge which means british security saw this individual from way far out. about other incidents, we won't know until we get more information. it's symbolic that you take -- any incident that occurs down there next to parliament is going to bring international attention, whether it's a knife, deranged person with a knife or an actual terrorist attacker. you'll get the coverage you're getting now. >> of course, we're here overlooking the white house. we've got reporting from kristen welker and peter alexander that the white house is aware of this incident and they're keeping tabs on it. we, of course, are as well trying to figure out whether this is a single incident and

whoever is responsible for it has been neutralized or stopped or whether there are multiple incidents under way in london. unfortunately, london has a fair amount of experience with terrorism. and as a result, how would you evaluate their ability to respond to something that sounds like a call for a gunshot? >> oh, well now, you know, certainly after the 7/7 attacks in the previous decade, the british have amped up their armed response throughout the city. it's not like it used to be with unarmed bobbies everywhere. they have very, very strong counterterrorist. they have unmarked patrol vehicles all over the place. they look like bmw m6s. but they are four-man s.w.a.t. teams. you'll not get away with anything if you do it in a high-profile place like this or some other major tourist area like trafalgar square. what you're going to get is

you're going to get shot. that may explain how fast this incident went down, why we have the assailant down right away. >> we are 35 minutes into the first call having come in. we see a helicopter there on the right side of the screen. we are also getting reports from witnesses who have spoken to reuters saying that armed police have entered the uk parliament. some carrying shields. now malcolm, i'll take you back to the attack in canada's parliament a few years ago. obviously when there's an attack that's close to lawmakers, until they get an all clear, they're going to continue to increase their response until someone tells them to stop. >> certainly when you're talking about an extremely high value target, any of these major areas there, you know, number ten downing street is just around the corner. you'll bring massive counterterrorist assault forces in place. until they can confirm that that is the only salter, they are

going to sweep that building from top to bottom. just to be on the safe side. they'll link up on the outside. and they'll push their way in and until they can meet the security force on the inside, they can guarantee them that no salters came in -- >> i'm just getting word. associated press is saying that the leader of the house of commons has said that a police officer was stabbed outside of parliament. police officer was stabbed outside of parliament. this would square with what kelly's reporting was a few moments ago where she said witnesses said they saw someone in an altercation with a police officer pulling a knife and then they believe someone was shot. now we don't know whether that's the shooting that everybody is referring to or there was another shooting because there seemed to be reports of other -- another shooting somewhere else that would seem like a different area. but as you point out very clearly, two things. one is, in a tight urban area like that with buildings, one

shot or two shots may sound like multiple shots. and again, the police response could be hours long. they could be increasing their presence, sending more police in until they determine the situation is secure. evaluate what you now know from us, malcolm, that the leader of britain's house of commons say that a police officer has been stabbed. more police are entering the parliament. the leader of the house of commons says there are reports of further violent incidents in the area n that someone has been shot. that seems to be all the information we have at the moment but it's starreding to come together as a picture. >> and for -- certainly people in the intelligence community like myself, that's almost sufficient amount of information to extrapolate what's going on here. there have been numerous armed, you know, what we call suicide individual weapons assaults. where an individual picks up a machete or knife and goes out and carries out an operation by assaulting the first police officer or soldier that they've

seen. england had an incident a few years ago where a soldier on the street was attacked by armed aggressors with machetes who beheaded him on the street. for someone who comes in and makes a stabbing attack at the house of parliament, every counterterrorist officer in england is going to recall that beheading incident and they'll respond with lethal and immediate force. and itppears f the way i'm looking at this image, the attacker may have run across the westminster bridge heading to the east side of town when he was engaged from the rear by security forces out of parliament. >> all right. and again, just to underscore the point you just made about the response someone might have to someone pulling a knife. the united kingdom for many years now has had very strict laws on the public owning firearms, let alone carrying them. there's virtually zero carry allowed in the united kingdom. in fact, some police don't carry a weapon.

people are allowed to own shotguns or sporting rifles. there is a very limited population of people who are not police who can have a handgun or pistol. >> you're absolutely right. there's no private ownership and certainly of certain types of weapons. you will see lots of sporting arms. i've gone wind shooting over there. lots of shotguns and hunting rifles, which are firearms but for the most part, handguns, certainly military grade assault rifles, these aren't the types of things we see going on in the united kingdom. we see mainly individual weapons attacks like knives, machetes and explosive attacks, bombs. this isn't the era of the irish republican army when they had automatic weapons. >> we should point out for all the reporting on what to do with firearms in the united kingdom, the rules are different in northern ireland. there are a lot more armpeople there. the queen is in buckingham

palace. and the buckingham palace is referring all inquiries to the metropolitan police. let's go to matt bradley standing by in london. >> we're on our way to the scene of this. what we know so far is an ambulance has landed in the vicinity of parliament in downtown -- >> we've got a picture of that. we'll put that up on the screen. >> treating some of the victims. great. and then what we saw is the leader of the house of commons, he broke into one of the sessions on air, bbc broke into programming, and announced this to the house of commons. we were in the middle of discussing a schools issue, i believe, and broke into this to tell the members that there was an armed incident going on rht outside of their parliament. and so he was actually very reticent to go into too much detail in front of the entire global press but what he did say was, as you mentioned there was this armed assailant who was shot by police and he said

separately there was another incident of violence occurring around westminster. what we believe he's probably referring to separate reports that there was a 4x4 vehicle that plowed over as many as five pedestrians on westminster bridge which joins the area of parliament to south london. so he was -- he was actually very careful and said he didn't want to go into too many details or alarm the members of parliament who would then be having to walk out into this when they left the building. so he was very cautious. but this is an incident that is obviously catching a city that's already been on edge and everybody here in london, when they see these other incidents, these other terrorist attacks happen, they are so much on edge waiting for the next foot to drop here. and this is really going to have an impact on politics outside of that. this is an issue that really is

affecting so many people here in britain. we've seen this rise of kind of a right wing movement here and throughout europe. and this is only going to put wind in the sales s wind in the sales ails of those say this is an issue that needs to be looked at and examined in terms of refugees in the conversation that's going on in the states. but it should be noted that mi-5, which is the domestic intelligence agency and police agency for the uk, they've come out and said there is no terror link so far. >> what they said here -- they are saying that it's too early to say, certainly, that it isn't. >> too early to say, right. >> stand by for me, matt, because you got great information for us. i want to recap this for viewers who have just joined. you are looking at westminster bridge where at least one person has been shot. parliament is on lockdown. journalists have been told to shelter in place. the queen is in residence at buckingham palace. one would presume very safe. prime minister theresa may is

safe and at work but her office will not disclose where she is. whether she's in parliament or she is otherwise at 10 downing or somewhere else. the white house has been informed of this development. no comment from them yet. the leader of britain's house of commons says a man attacked a police officer with a knife and has been shot by police. the entire parliament complex is in lockdown. the leader of the house of commons says there are reports of further violent incidents nearby, including, as matt bradley just reported, reports that a vehicle struck several people on the bridge and photos showed a car. we can see that right there, plowed into railings. we're seeing emergency response teams all over the place. in another photograph, you see the air ambulance that's landed nearby in preparation for evacuations. i want to go to keir simmons who has more for us in new york. >> take a look at this picture you're now seeing and let me help you understand what you're seeing.

that is the westminster bridge. the side of the bridge that it looks as if the incident has occurred is facing the houses of parliament. you would be able to see the houses of parliament from there. there is actually an area where members of parliament can sit outside by the river. it is visible from that part of the bridge. so further down that -- from that bridge with the parliament on the left, then you get to parliament square which you can see in the other picture. that's where, if people have been to london, that's where the statue of winston churchill is. that's where it seems as if there's a helicopter that would have found a place to live there. right across from there is white hall. downing street is, i guess, around halfway down there, that road. and then i guess around half a mile away is buckingham palace where the royal officia say the queen is currently. it's a compact area. there are a lot of very important people in that area.

for that reason you've been mentioning that british police do not carry arms as per normal, but in that area, there would be large numbers of armed officers. it's also the place that the scotland yard division that is armed, sr-19 is most able to respond to. they rehearse for any kind of a terrorist incident. they prepare for this kind of thing. they would have been able to be there very, very quickly, we assume. as you've been mentioning, and we don't know what we're talking about here, but if it is some kind of an attack with a terrorist motive, it would be very unusual for that to be a firearms attack. in the past back in 2013 as malcolm was talking about there was a knife attack on a british soldier. and you'll remember most famously ten years ago there was a terrorist attack, that involved explosives, hoim homemade explosives on the

underground, the tube, and on a bus. so for this to be an armed attack if that's what it is, would be unusual. it would not be unusual, though, for police officers in that area to be armed. and as you've been mentioning if they did think an attack was under way, they would respond severely. quickly and severely. >> tell me, keir, this is the side of the bridge that is not the side parliament is on? >> it looks to me as if that is the side of the bridge where you can see parliament. thetom right-hand side of the screen, the bridge across the thames and then down to the left is where parliament is. so you can see from that image that you can see parliament from the bridge. and just to say again, there is an area, a part of the commons entertainment area if you like that is outside. members of parliament, members of the house of lords will gather to entertain guests. it is visible from there. in the end, as with any democracy, this is an open space

because members of the public need to have access to their representatives. so just across from the bridge to the left is a driveway in which you can enter the houses of parliament. further down is a walkway you can walk in. the metro system which is right by there there's an underground tunnel under that road you're looking at now that will take you into the houses of parliament. there are multiple ways to access that building. and you mentioned that there are armed officers in the houses of parliament. that wouldn't be surprising because one of the important things they'd want to do is make sure there's nobody inside. there are multiple ways to get in. of course, all of them are highly guarded. and we don't know how many incidents have occurred here. >> keir, let me just interrupt you there. thank you for this great color. standby for a moment. parliament is under lockdown.

reporters are told to shelter in place inside parliament. one of those reporters is on the phone with me. daily express reporter camilla tominy is inside parliament joining us on the phone. what's the situation? >> hi there, ali. [ inaudible ]. >> we're having some -- must be a tough signal in there. we're having a difficult time hearing you. tell me what instructions you've been given right now. are you meant to stay in place the parliament? >> at the moment, we're in lockdown, ali. in fact, there are still policemen here in the background shouting instructions at us. the commotion started about half an hour ago. a nearby escalator was suddenly evacuated of people because there had been a shooting downstrs. and we understand at that point that the police overcame the

assailant and it was then that everyone was told to run. >> camilla, keir simmons has been telling us where everything is in relation to everything else. there was an incident in the cloisters. where is that in relation to the parliament building you're in? >> i'm in a modern part where everyone has coffee. it's built in 2001, i believe. the main older parts like by big ben is the main chamber and this happened between where i am and between the main chamber of the house. so as we understand it, there's been an incident on westminster bridge, a car that's crashed into railings down near where i am and there's been a man -- and i understand shootings of the assailant nearby. we heard some gunshots. we were told to run. we had to run to the back of this very modern building which adjoins to the main older parts of the houses of parliament and we've been in lockdown since

this happened. obviously -- only just as i've been on the phone has the public been told they can move back to their office building. perhaps that's signaling the incident here is over. >> to be clear, because the phone just cut out when you said that. are you hearing that people are being given the all clear to return? >> at the moment, people have just in the last few seconds been given the signal [ inaudible ] where i am but obviously [ inaudible ] around the entire precinct, the westminster station has been closed and there's a lockdown situation at the moment. >> have you been allowed to leave, or are you still under lockdown? >> we're not leaving the building. we're just being moved to another area. there's a sense that perhaps there is still something ongoing nearby and we're being moved to some sort of place of safety. although we are still inside. the entrances have been closed to keep us all in and safe.

it seems to me as if there are so many police outside that they're trying mak the area as sterile as poible. >> camilla, stand by. keir smons, news from the police? >> just received a statement from scotland yard. i'm going to read it to you so you get the full picture. scotland yard asking people to avoid the following areas. it lists many areas close together that you can see on your screen there. parliament square, white hall, westminster bridge, victoria street up to the junction with broadway and the victoria embankment to embankment tube. just as i read that, that's quite a wide area loopg by the river, further up by victoria station. it goes on to say this is to allow the emergency services to deal with an ongoing incident. officers including firearms officers remain on the scene, and we are treating this as a terrorist incident until we know otherwise. and thanks the public for their assistance. scotland yard treating this as a

terrorist incident according to a statement from british police that i just received. that's what you'd expect them to do because they can't know the motive of whoever was involved in this attack, be it one person or more than one. but they will have their terrorist response units on that scene, not least because of the risk to the large numbers of important people. the prime minister, we know the queen is in buckingham palace. buckingham palaceor your information is not far from victoria street so -- and not far from the pictures that you can see there of the heart of british government and the british constitution are all squeezed into that area. so again, scotland yard treating this as a terrorist incident, they say, until we know otherwise. >> we're going to try and get an update from mi-5. mi-5's last piece of information was that it's too early to know it's a terrorist incident.

these 24 different organizations. scotland yard and national police mi-5 and intelligence -- >> i think that, you know, those two statements tally because what the british police are effectively saying is they will treat it as a terrorist incident until otherwise. mi-5, which is the british security service saying effectively the same thing. we don't know what it is and it's mi-5's job to establish what exactly it is. they are an investigating team. scotland yard, of course, will be a response, or a responsive organization, as well as an investigative policing service. >> bbc is reporting that police believe there is a suspect vehicle outside of parliament. people being evacuated from that area. and sean spicer, the press secretary has just tweeted the president of the united states has been briefed on the situation and they are continuing to monitor the

situation for us there. i understand fawaz gerges is outside. are you outside of parliament or inside parliament right now? >> yes, i'm outside the parliament. >> tell me what you can see. tell me what you understand to be going on. >> well, i mean, the whole area is a war zone now. helicopters in the skies. armed police officers everywhere. the entire area is blocked. it's a very heavily armed area. a great deal of confusion and chaos. no one really knows exactly, other than [ inaudible ] the security that exists at this particular moment. the whole area is -- the police are not allowing anyone to approach the parliament itself. we are blocked in a very tiny area around the parliament. >> are you able to get out, fawaz, or stationary? are people with you? do you have to stay where you are? >> absolutely. we're staying where we are because there's tremendous armed activity by the police.

and, obviously, they are very much concerned about some security threats as well. and that's why they are preventing people from moving into certain areas around parliament. we do not know what's happening at this particular stage because you haveelicopters in the sky, you have police vans, armed police officers. it's extremely chaotic and it's very sad because just about half an hour ago, we were walking in the gardens of parliament and suddenly, it took a second and the entire area, people started running and crying and the police officers, i mean, it is amazing the transformation. >> fawaz, did you hear anything that sounded like gunshots? >> you know, they are moving all of us now to a different area. i mean, more and more streets have been blocked and more officers are coming into the

streets now. so, obviously, the area is still a kind of security zone at this particular moment. >> did you hear gunshots? >> one or twice but it's difficult because there was a great deal of screaming and chaos, but, yes, probably once or twice. >> the picture you're looking at, we're showing our viewers -- >> we do not know if it was from the police officers or the so-called, potential suspect. all i can tell you for your own viewers, very chaotic. there's a great deal of confusion. no one knows that this -- we've seen some bodies on the bridge. it's very difficult to know, you know, even -- a suspect car. that's why they are sealing the streets around the parliament. we're moving further and further from the parliament down because the police officers are really

forcing all of us to leave the area at this particular moment. >> let me update our viewers on what we know the situation to be. there's been an incident on the westminster bridge which is what you're looking at now very near parliament. we know that at least. we have reports of shots fired. what the leader in parliament has been saying is that someone threatened a police officer and that resulted in a shooting. but as fawaz gerges has just said, there seem to be other incidents around. there you're looking at an air ambulance that's landed right by parliament. there is word of a suspect vehicle from which people are being -- the area around which people are being evacuated from. we know that prime minister theresa may is safe somewhere. the prime minister's office, obviously, will not disclose her location. we know that queen elizabeth is in buckingham palace and is believed to be safe there.

we know that there appeared to be other things going on right now but we can't piece it all together and determine what it is the intligence services in great britain have said that there is -- it's too early to determine whether or not this is tied to terrorism but scotland yard is saying, in fact, that they are treating it as if it's terrorism until they learn otherwise. we are watching donald trump, president trump in the top right corner. let's listen in to what he's about to say. >> thank you very much. appreciate your being here. it's a great honor. a very great honor. i want to thank vice president pence, secretary tom price and administrator seema verma who is doing an incredible jon, fb, fol the time they put into repealing and replacing obamacare.

big vote tomorrow in the house. i want to thank seem athe administrator -- >> i'm going to ask you to be patient with us for a moment. we need to hear the beginning of what donald trump says so we're just going to ask the control room to bring that back to the beginning so you can hear that. he may have made some mention of this incident at the top of that. that's a tape we've just received from the white house where there was a meeting having to do with health care under way. and that's what typically happens. the beginning of those meetings get recorded for us and we play them back. we'll put that back in the beginning. i want to go back to fawaz gerges, somewhere outside of that parliament. can you see that air ambulance taking off? >> excuse me. i can't hear you. >> there's an air ambulance, a helicopter taking off. >> absolutely, the helicopters have been in the sky for the past half an hour. some of them landed, obviously, and picked up some of the

injured. there are two, three helicopters in the sky now, plus many ambulances, dozens of armed police officers. i mean, the area now, the entire area is blocked, literally, more than a mile from the parliament. it's extremely chaotic. it has the feel, really, a war zone at this particular moment. everything you hear is really very much uncertain at this particular stage. we d not know what has happened. we don't know the extentf the attack itself who were involved, whether it's a terrorist organization. it has the feel of a security kind of an attack. remember, this is the nerve center, the british government, the symbolic power of the british monarchy. this is it. the choice of the target itself is very telling.

for your own viewers, who would be surprised an attack has not taken place in london because security forces had been expecting attacks in london for the past few years. but we have to wait and see before we can talk about the nature of the attack, the identity of the attack or attackers and how serious the attack or attacks, you know, were. >> fawaz, stand by. i want to go to quinton lentz. he apparently witnessed the stabbing. >> the first thing that seemed to happen was an incident on westminster bridge, which i did not see, but i have an office which just overlooks a patch of grass underneath big ben, that famous clock. it's an area where members of the british parliament drive in in their cars before going into an underground car park. it's a small area with some grass. i saw a -- after the sound of something happening on the

bridge, i saw a fairly thick set man wearing black clothes running through the open gates, the security gates which -- where people drive their cars in. he seemed to have something in his hand, maybe a knife, maybe a stick. he started beating a police officer who had fallen over on the ground. the policeman managed to shake him off and the attacker then ran towards the entrance to the house of commons which is used by our members of parliament. and he got about 15 yards before the authorities responded. they responded incredibly fast. two plainclothes guys came out, pointed their guns at this man who was running towards them. they shouted something. the man ignored em or shot about two or three times, and he fell instantly to the ground. we then saw a fairly quick

medical response, but i don't think it's done much good to one of the policemen out there. >> i want to back this up because you're giving us the first sense of sequence. you were alerted to look out your window because you heard something already happen on the westminster bridge. >> yes, i heard -- well, from that direction. i don't know exactly what it was, but it sounded like a car crash happening. it was sort of an echoey bang. and then one heard the sound of people screaming and people -- i looked out of my window and saw people running away from that area. and then i saw this man, this attacker run through the gates. >> did you, when you were looking at this, understand what was going on? you saw a man running in that area. i guess you wouldn't typically see that happening? >> i think i probably did understand what was going on. a strange sensation to see this thing unfold, watching it through a window rather than watching it at a cinema or movie

house. >> are you in a place where someone would have told you to shelter in your office? have you been given such instruction? >> yes, a policewoman came in and told us to move away from the windows. one can ignore things like that sometimes. >> so you there are. you have got a bird 's-eye view of what's going on. >> i can't see the bridge. i can see parliament square where the helicopter ambulance just departed. a lot of fire engines and ambulances around. there's a police sniffer dog which has been given some exercises. very much a feeling of the crisis having passed here now and the tidy up operation and -- >> how far from the entrance to parliament, the physical entrance of the building, would this shooting of the man -- the heavyset man, the thick set man wearing black, where would that have taken place in relation to where you go inside parliament? >> there are several entrances to parliament.

this is one of them which is used by members of parliament. he was, i'd say, possibly 50 yards he got from there because the area where it all happened, where this incident all happened, it's a little bit of parkland if you like. an area where people drive around in their cars before going into an underground car park. you can imagine the size of it. it's about the size of a football field perhaps. and he ran along part of that area towards the entrance. which the mps use. he got about 15 yards, 20 yards before he was shot. >> all right. quinton, thank you. i'm glad you're safe. thank you for helping us to understand a bit more about what happened here. i want to hear from some people who saw what happened as well from a different perspective. let's listen to that now. >> we heard shot goes off again. >> it's my phone.

>> sorry. >> so you were on the bus. >> yes. we were -- >> just coming over the westminster bridge. >> we were actually on the bridge. we heard gunshots, what we thought was gunshots. turned around and saw the car had plowed into a lady and -- i think it was a lady. not 100% sure but underneath the wheel and could hear screams. and then we heard gunshots again. and as we looked along the bridge because we were only crawl along the bridge there were bodies literally -- >> must have been like ten bodies. >> ten or 12 bodies lying along the bridge. >> that must be terrifying. >> it was horrendous. absolutely horrendous. >> we had to stay on the bus then until the driver could get off the bridge. >> needed to get somewhere safe. >> and then the emergency services there were. >> they came as well at the same time, yeah. >> thank goodness you there were

together. you must have just -- >> young ladies from mexico on the bus as well. and they were traumatized. absolutely traumatized. young girls. horrendous. >> let me tell you more of the information that we're getting in on this right now. one british lawmaker has said on twitter he was walking through the cloisters of the house of commons to vote when he heard four gunshots. police told lawmakers to get down on the ground and crawl for cover. just like quinton letz told me a moment ago on tv. grant tweeted that police response was instant. he heard commotion, looked around. police weapons drawn. four shots. police ordered us to hit the ground and get back. get back. a little bit earlier than that, the former polish foreign minister posted a video on twitter.

we'll try to get that to you. it seems to show people lying injured on the road, on the westminster bridge. that's what you're looking at. we're looking at activity on the left side of the screen. that's the west minister bridge. the narrative seems to be that something happened there, a car hit some people and then went into the side of the bridge. after that, someone ran toward parliament. was told to stop. we're just piecing this together based on eyewitness testimony we've gotten on this. somebody ran toward parliament. police came out and told that person to stop. apparently they didn't stop and they were shot. we've heard everything from one, two to four shots poll malcolm nance did point out in a closed environment, gunshots echo so it's not clear that what you hear is what actually happened. let's go to security analyst duncan graham in london. you have had, i guess, the same chance to piece some of this together. what do you make of it? >> well, knowing the geography a

little bit, my assessment of this is that we could just have a one vehicle that was driven across the bridge hitting pedestrians on that that bridge then crashing into the railings next to parliament. it's possible then that one or maybe two attackers, perhaps even more, have got out of the vehicle and run round the corner to try and get into parliament, which is the scene that quentin has been describing to you. there's a gate there where vehicles can drive in, parliamentary vehicles for mps normally and if that gate was open, which is normally is to some extent, even in only ajar, then a large individual might be able to force their way through but sounds like they got no closer to the building than a few yards before they were shot, so that would be my assessment of the situation. it's obviously an iconic target, and we've seen terrorist attacks in the uk before, in fact, a kind of dry run outside a

barracks in woolidge a couple years ago in which a vehicle was used to run down a soldier and then stab and behead him and that involved two individuals. i would guess this would only be one or maybe two individuals as well, but they've chosen a far more iconic target in this case, and actually a far better protected target, because parliament has crash barriers around it to stop vehicles getting too close, and has numerous armed police officers ready to shoot anyone that does this sort of thing. >> so duncan, i don't want to cause you to speculate on things you don't have information about, but based on the information that we are gathering and i've got matt bradley standing by, he just arrived on the scene, i want to you help me see if this piecing together makes sense, that someone who hit those people on the bridge, perhaps in an attempt to get toarliament a, rhaps to create a diverse, perhaps for some other reason may the perso who ran from that accident on westminster bridge to that point, the gate in front of parliament through

which he went, does that make sense to you? are we talking about possibly the same person or the same group of people? >> i would think that's distinctly possible, where the vehicle appears to have come to a halt at the railings and you can see from the aerial shot that there are a lot of police vehicles around it, is only a few yards from the entrance to parliament. so -- >> got t okay. >> it's distinctly possible the same individual tried to get in. >> matt bradley arrived on the scene and on the phone. what do you see? >> reporter: we're at whitehall street just down the street from westminster abbey and from the houses of parliament. we're being blocked. we can't go any further and the police are preventing all the reporters who are gathered here from going any further. we're a couple blocks away. the only thing i can really see are police cars, sirens on and lights flashing, but right now, if you were going just a couple of blocks away, just to trafalgar square, the area that's quite close, it would be

as if nothing was going on, people are still walking around, still tourists looking around at buildings and things like that, but right up close to the house of parliament, it does seem as though there's obviously quite a big incident and as you mentioned, theresa may, the prime minister, her location, she's secure, but her location is unaccounted for and i'm about one block away from her offices at ten downing street. so it seems as though of course she would be top priority and the police have already obviously taken care of, ensconceder in security and tried to prevent anything from happening to her, but right now, it's really just kind of, we're just watching ambulances coming in and out with full sirens, so it seems as though there are wounded people who are at least being ferried back and forth or at least an effort being made to try to reach people. >> right, we've seen the air ambulance go up and down a couple times and on the left of your screen you see emergency workers attending to people. stand by, matt. i want to go to the phone as well, bloomberg reporter robert

hutton witnessed it from his office window. robert, we're trying to piece this all together. sounds like an incident on the bridge, a driver hitting people, then possibly maybe a driver or an accomplice running to parliament to try and do something there, accosted and shot by police. >> let me tell you what i can see from my window, which is next to big ben. i can see a car crashed into the railings that run alongside the courtyard outside parliament. my colleague saw someone come running through the gates outside parliament, which are guarded, and he saw that person challenged, and then he saw that person shot, and we don't know the status of that person. we also, we are told that a policeman has been stabbed, and we don't know their status. there were two ambulances outside parliament square

earlier. there's only one now. the air ambulance that landed in the square has left. in the minutes after the incident, we saw a large number of policemen with machine guns which is a very unusual sight in britain come running into the building. we believe they are working their way through the building searching it now. this is a hard building to get into. so although there was a search going on in the building, that's probably just precautionary. >> right, and london, having been victim to attacks in the past, has hardened many of its buildings. parliament is a tricky one, because there is public access to it, but you wouldn't generiay speaking be able to run to parliament if the police were trying to stop you. >> no. 20 years ago could you walk straight into this building. before i worked here, i sometimes used to pop in to use the khcanteen for lunch.

these days unless you have a pass, you have to go through a metal detector and a search point, and they've given a lot of thought to protecting it. there is the visible protection that you can see. this is actually one of the few places in britain where you would always see armed police. >> yep. >> they have also put in over the years i've watched them digging trenches and burying posts for walls to create barriers to stop people driving vehicles in. so this is not an easy building to get into at all. this is the first time i think that we've had a terrorist attack here since the days of irish republican terrorism in the 1970s. the square i'm looking out over famously in the 1970s metropolitan -- >> you're saying in that particular spot. robert, thank you for your perspective on that. robert hutton, from bloomberg, who has been able to see both parts of this scenario.

the part you're seeing now on westminster bridge and what happened on the grounds of parliament in front of big ben. the story is now coming together for us. let's listen to a few more people who saw it happen. >> coming across the bridge and -- >> all right, keir simmons is standing by. keir, you have been with me piecing this together. we now have a bit of a picture of what we think happened. what's the latest that you have? okay, we don't have keir. we will get to keir in a second. keir's been watching this. again, we started with reporting from kelly cobiella there were two different incidents occurring in proximity to each other. it now does appear that the two incidents are connected, we westminste rebridge some sort of

car accident or somebody deliberately hitting other people and then someone came from that direction on foot and entered the parliament grounds in front of big ben. you are seeing emergency workers moving people to some of these ambulances, so there are injured people. keir, what are you making of all of this? >> reporter: i think from what we've heard from witnesses and what we can see on the screen there, it does appear that there are at least two incidents, because the witnesses who were describing being able to look down on the houses of parliament are saying that they saw a vehicle crash into pedestrians, and then crash into the gate, and that they also saw somebody running into the houses of parliament, the area where cars, hicl normally would drive inand trying to find their way to the building before being stopped by armed police. so whether or not those two incidents are connected in the sense that someone jumped from that vehicle and then ran around, which is possible, the

two places are close enough for people to see both incidents from their window, whether that's what happened or whether these are two individuals that this is something that has been a combined incident, if you like. that's up for question, but it does look, and we can see from the video that when we're seeing pictures of the bridge across the thames that there is a gathering, and a lot of emergency vehicles in a place just on the other side of that bridge, right by the houses of parliament, where that would be, where if people are describing a vehicle crashing into the gate, i'd imagine that's where that would have happened. just to fill you in, i just have another statement from scotland yard, most of it is details we've already reported that they are treating this as a terrorist incident until we know otherwise, they say, but they're also say it happened at 2:40 british time, and is being treated as a firearms incident. so that's latest from scotland

yard. >> we know the queen is safe in buckingham palace, we know the prime minister theresa may is safe, they won't tell us where she is. we'll continue our coverage. thank you for watching this hour of "msnbc live." our coverage continues with "andrea mitchell reports." >> and good day, i'm andrea mitchell in washington. where we are of course following breaking news out of london, reports of two violent incidents outside parliament. first on the westminster bridge, reports of a vehicle hitting and injuring several people, then eyewitnesses say a man with a knife charging through the gates outside of parliament, a police officer was stabbed and then the assailant was shot by police. scotland yard is treating this as a terrorist incident. parliament is on lockdown. this was the moment in the house of commons. >> order. i am now going to suspend the sitting of the house. this house is now suspended but please, wait here.