can council for paul maurcht contacted the committee yesterday to offer the committee the opportunity to interview his client. we think mr. manafort for volunteering. >> donald trump's got 99 problems and his former campaign chairman may be one, because this week we learned paul manafort may have had a much closer relationship with russia than teen one we've been telling you about on this show since last july. according to the associated press, manafort once proposed a covert plan to benefit vladimir putin by influencing politics and news coverage inside the

former soviet republic's and the united states. he began pitching the plan to a russian oligarch and vladimir putin ally. he said his work for him didn't involve representing russia's political interests, this despite the fact the proposal stated if hired by him manafort's proposal would, and i, quote, greatly benefit the putin government. in the circle of trump associates with ties to russia, those who has russian receptionist turned most scrutiny are the ones most likely to tell investigators a few of trump's favorite little words, let's make a deal. david corn, washington bureau chief, malcolm nance, thank you all for being here. michelle, you tweeted out this

week a very intriguing flash back to 1989 a number. abc news reporting about paul manafort on influence. >> april 1987 after his lobbying helped persuade hub u manafort said he was just working within the system, but -- >> i will stipulate you can characterize this as influence pedaling. >> was manafort already a trump crony back then? give us a bit of his background. >> he was in business with roger stone in the '80s. they set up a firm. this is after they worked with reagan and a bunch of other republican presidents. the fact of the matter is that he was in the business of what a lot of campaign operatives do. they leave campaigns. they don't get paid a lot and make a lot of money. democrats and republicans do it. guess what, most campaigns vet their staff before they hire

him. all of this stuff was available in a vet. and i do believe he doesn't know all of it. you vet them and you find out what they did because you don't want to end up in this mess. i was screaming at the television this week when sean spicer was saying how were we supposed know ten years ago? i saw this youtube clip in a matter of seconds on google. that's not using any opposition research. there's no excuse for this and they have to be held accountable for it because they open themselves up to having two people now that are essentially foreign agents in their campaigns. there are some folks hillary clinton didn't hire that used to work for bill clinton because they did a lot of foreign lobbying and consult for campaigns in foreign countries. >> yeah. but they vetted them. david corn, you did reporting on

paul manafort. one would think they would do a proper vetting of him. >> that's the same person you mention. before he wrote that memo for him how to boost putin's image in the united states and elsewhere, he was trying to help him get interest in the united states where he had been band because u.s. officials supported he had made his money and he was tied to death russian mob. it was a debate controversy that went on for years. biv to say in the vetting issue, they didn't have to vet paul manafort. everybody who knows paul manafort knows that he's worked for dictators, involved in scandals, wrorkd for roger stone a dirty trickster, that was the whole point. they wanted an influenced pedaler. they wanted someone who could use his influence to run things.

they didn't have to go back and vet him. they knew whaerp getting and the real issue here despite with sean spicer said at the conference was maybe trump didn't know ten years ago he signed this deal with the russian oligarch and a vetting might not have found that. but paul manafort has had russian ties for in years and ukraine ties that's not new. if "f" anyone's having conversations with anyone related to russia or putin, he's one of the guys in the campaign you have to start looking at. >> we found out this week, malcolm, that there's a u.s. now probe into manafort's ties to the bank of cypress which has long been known for laundering russian oligarchs' money. he's been in business with bad guys for a long time, but

whether or not the trump campaign deliberately put someone in place hollywood specific link to russia and to russia's intelligence services. that's where we get into the treason territory. >> people always ask me is this activity treason, and no, i think there's a better way to put this. this is a rico operation. this is racketeering corrupt organizations type activity. it won't be for espionage. is it possible that manafort was brought in as you say specifically because he had experience in running these campaigns where he did influence one degree of separation from russian intelligence. he knew how to manage overseas media, he knew how to manage

dictators? absolutely. there's no way not to doubt that. that's exactly why he was brought on board, and he did get trump to be more disciplined. it's the only revelations by "the new york times" about the ukraine times that got him off the campaign. he still lives in trump tower. he still hals connections to the dpachblt problem for manafort is when u.s. intelligence turns onto him, his ability to use trump and use his friends to hide whatever he's been doing is not going to work. these people have no clue what they're up against if we get an independent council or a special prosecutor and we have the ability to go after them. then they will look like the guys in good fellas, walk into a room and plastic will be all over the floor. >> that is really i think where the risk comes in of the

administration pretending they don't know manafort and kicking him to the curb and saying we don't know him. listen to jim comey this week when he was asked whether manafort's under vfrgs. >> suffice it to say he was part of the trump campaign, chief strategist before departing the campaign in disgrace in august recommend. is paul manafort a subject in your investigation? >> i'm not going to comment on that. >> he wouldn't comment on that. roger stone, carter page volunteering to talk to the house committees. we don't know what they'll say. and then you have the insane report that just came out that the former cia director tell us "the wall street journal" that mike flynn and turkish officials discuss kidnapping anered kwan foe and dragging him out of the united states.

do the potential legal jeopardize face in the russia orbit, would any of them talking potentially put donald trump in fatal jeopardy in terms of his presidency? >> oh, yeah. i mean, he's in a lot of trouble. this whole sft thing they're doing with sean spicer too where i think he recessed to paul manafort as a volunteer, paul manafort translate campaign. that's one hell of a volunteer. now he's volunteering to come forward and testify. i think we're going to be in a situation where all these guys, page, flynn, manafort, stone, know they're in trouble. i think they don't want to be the ones that are going to face some severe legal repercussions. so they are kind of in a race possibly to sell each other out the fastest in order to get some kind of immunity. i don't know how that's going to play out, but all these permanently were closely tied to trump.

the same fraudulent allegations were made about flynn, that he's not close to the president. he was the national security adviser. he spoke at the republican national convention. these are the people who chose to surround himself with. he had his pick of whomever he wanted. just as the other panelists were saying, he chose them for these qualities. >> if this is indeed a recoe operation, you all of your them a deem. you're look at that cast of characters. who's the weak link that winds up talking? >> i've got this theory on carter page. he's been in these interviews and people are baffled why he

would speak that way. he brought them up in a "washington post" editorial meeting over a year ago saying this is one of my top four advisers. carter page has gone out exclusively to your colleague chris hayes and anderson cooper and done terrible interviews. and trump revealed in the "new york times" just goes nuts when carter page is on television. he's been very, very quiet in other ways, carter page. he goes on tv and he talks about this stuff. carter page is in my mind probably going to be the one to do the most talking. manafort is too smart to do anything stupid in this realm. >> david corn, if somebody was monitored in trump tower, the guy on the 34th floor is paul manafort. who is the weak link. >> you don't want to speculate. i want to be fair, even to these

people. i will say what we know publicly, paul manafort is you find investigation for cypress issues, ukranian corruption. and if the ap story is true, it seems he didn't register as a foreign agent and he should have. all the people we know out there that we know of, he seems to have at this point in time the most legal liabilities, this which might make him the voes have you looked. i'm sure he has millions saved away. >> malcolm, you have roger stone volunteering to go testify, seems to be wanting to fiding. but of you a lot of people around donald trump that seem to be -- i'll let you speculate on what you think are the jeopardize here if one of these guys decides they don't want to risk freedom for donald trump. >> i'm going to tell you right

now, i know who's going to break. "wall street journal" put out that report yesterday. general flynn as having been discussing conspiracy to abduct an american citizen and turn him over through illegal rendition privately to a foreign power. that person is going to be the person who breaks because that is conspiracy to commit crimes against the u.s. code present. if that pans out, general flynn is most likely going to find himself before a federal court and he's going to have to defend himself. if he says that anyone in the administration knew about this as he was going in or he was going to formalize those plans, then he's going to get in trouble. but he east done right now. if i were him, i would start talking.

>> in a system that is sort of mimicking an authoritarian state, even though they don't have t-- what kind of response would you anticipate from the trump white house if their guys, none of whom is subject to privilege start talking in ways that are unhelpful to him? >> i mean, i think they're going to do what they always do is lie and object fuse indicate and say they have no connection to these people. unfortunately they have an obvious connection and months and months of document takes both public and private of interaction between these parties and trump. often when a dictator feels like they're cornered they do some sort of aggressive action to distract from the kind of corruption that's underway. i worry about what trump is

going to do in the meantime, particularly if it keeps being postponed which gives him more time to do things. we've seen flirtations with north korea with aggressive rhetoric towards north korea and china, a number of disastrous domestic policies. don't rule out what he might do. >> "wall street journal" told us the problem is his credibility is compromised. it's not clear he would be believed. very interesting. next up, will democrats have the guts to do the right thing when it comes to neil gorsuch? stay with us. sflsh a daily struggle,

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after careful deliberation, i have concluded i cannot support judge neil gorsuch's nomination to the supreme court. he will have to earn 60 votes for confirmation. my vote will be no and i urge my colleagues to do the same. >> chuck shume is a no and some democrats are vowing to filibuster. here are the ten democratic senators up for reelection next year. if they can't sway the eight

votes, they intend to blow up the senate rules and confirm him with just 51 votes. so we know the process. but one question that's really nagging a lot of democrats who are still smarting from the way the republicans treated president obama's supreme court nominee, merrick garland, is should democrats have let the gorsuch nomination get this far? or should they have considered it a stolen seat and not participated at all? jess mcintosh and agreeing restore, supreme court reporter for bloomberg news. i want to start by playing lindsey graham. he sort of went on a tear during the gorsuch hearing trying to explain why democrats would be wrong to hold merrick garland's whole sale rejection by neil gorsuch. take a listen. >> here's what joe biden thought in '92. if someone steps down, i'll recommend the president not name someone and not send a name up.

if bush did send someone up, i would ask the senate seriously consider not having a hearing on that nominee, it would be a pragmatic conclusion once the political season is underway, and it is, action on supreme court nominations must be mutt putt off until after election is over. >> i have no doubt in my mind, if the shoe were on the other foot, they would have delayed the confirmation process until the president was elected. >> is that true? did joe biden say a president doesn't get to nominate a supreme court justice in their final year before the election? >> he did get up there and say something like what senator graham said. he was talk about a hypothetical

vacancy. it is a talking point. republicans have been using it. but the situation was slightly different. >> the justices who've been confirmed in presidential laektsz since 1912, you have six justices including anthony kennedy who were confirmed in election years. that feels hike that argument falls apart. do you think that it's legitimate to consider the seat that was vacated with ant anyone slee died to be a stolen seat since barack obama's nominee didn't even get meetings with republicans. >> i think you're right that what was done to judge garland was unprecedented for the reasons you said. this was a vacancy that occurred at the beginning of the year. for republicans to act horrified that somebody would try to do 1i6r8g, the classic defgts of

chutzpah is the child who kills his parents and those himself on the mercy off the judge, and here the victim is the judge. that doesn't mean that should be the reason for the democrats to take a stand one way or the other on the gorsuch nomination. it was ill legitimate, but they have be "m" other ways to stand up on this nomination without doing the same thing. it was so off the charts. certainly doesn't think we would want to see paralysis in the courts based on that. but based on his refusal to answer questions in a meaningful way, the traditional role needing some consensus in the senate and not ramming through this and he bare majority vote and that sort of thing. >> white house itself is under fbi investigation, maybe we shouldn't make him make a lifetime appointment to the court. >> we have two compelling

arguments for tlag this vote and opposing gorsuch. help him take the white house. we're not talking about an unrelated fbi investigation. this is something that goes directly to the legitimacy of this president. and the idea held make a lifetime supreme court appointment with his legitimacy hanging over his head like that. it's something they outing to be concerned about. it is true that getting to 60 is pretty standard for a supreme court nominee. this guy can't do it. the fact that maker garland was held up the way he was. that's what we have in neil gorsuch and that's why we have to take that cereals. >> republicans said they would be willing to make that seat vacant for four years in hillary

clinton would have won. i wonder what you make of this deal that's being reported in politico that has pushed some democrats and that he would allow him to be confirmed in exchange for a commitment to not kill the filibuster. how real is the threat that mitch mcconnell could nuke the filibuster for supreme court noimgz? >> the threat of a nuclear option is real. it's not at all clear that's there's an agreement on that. the big issue for democrats on that is how do you know that deal will stand going forward because you need a commitment from right now three republicans and then we're going to have the midterm election. and then composition of the senate is going to change so you need more republicans going

forward. on the other hand don't necessarily -- they're in a position of strength right now. why do they need to make the deal? it's theoretically possible. will it happen? it's going to be tough. >> michael waldman of the other deal that's been floated is that they would trade a future merrick garland nomination for some kind of a deal. does that even sound plausible? >> you might remember about a decade ago at the time when the republicans were threat continuing nuclear option then, there was a deal that enabled them to retain filibuster. never underintimidate the puffed up senators that want to retain that power. you only need three republicans to say no we want to keep the filibuster, and this is not worth giving up the filibuster for. these things go in a lot of directions, but schumer showing strength helps them play their

hand. >> i have to ask you about this report that judge napolitano, sources of one of the -- he's president obama sort of ninjaing up the side of trump tower and planting bugs inside his apartment. he's claiming trump was think of putting him on the supreme court. >> i think that makes sense. obviously trump respects the guy in and out of stake his own credibility standing behind this absolute whopper of a tale that the guy said on sean hannity. why wouldn't help the to put him on the supreme court. did he look like a supreme court justice? >> he said he was a brilliant legal mind and he's from tv. that's all you need. >> coming up frank rich makes his first appearance on "a.m.

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welcome back. a new trailer for hulu's the hand made's tale came out this week. it's based on a novel of the same name and it's gaining new traction in trump's america. it's about a future where women lose their rights and are forced to bear children for infertile wealthy couples. the new trailer explains how it all began. >> i was asleep before. that's how we let it happen. when they slaughtered congress, we didn't wake up. when they blamed terrorists ands suspended the constitution, we didn't wake-up then either. now i'm awake. >> ladies, i need to let you go. it's the law now. >> they needed to do it this way. >> all the bank accounts and the jobs all at the same time. >> we only wanted to make the world better. >> better? >> better never means better for everyone. >> hmm. let's hope life doesn't imitate art.

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democratic party's self-diagnosis produced a number conclusions to explain what went wrong. the one you probably hear the most often focuses on democrats lack of appeal to the working-class voters. and democratic leaders have been trying to answer the question of how to turn those republican voters back into democrats. but this week in a new york magazine article titled "no sympathy for the hill billy" frank rich asks them to hold on to the sympathy. and hold on to the anger. and he asks them to convert trump's base is it a wort while political tactic that will help reverse republican rule or is it a counterproductive guilt of the

sort that helped blind democrats to the gravity of the trump threat in the first place. joining me now is frank rich, one of my favorite column nists. i'm so excited to have you here on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> your piece has caused a lot of stir, sir. it's caused a lot of debut debate. it's revived an old debate among the democratic party. should we go after blue-collar voters. are you saying that cannot be done? >> i'm saying that, first of all, the democratic party has to speak to working class voters, white, black, whom ever and do en it better than they've been doing. i think both bernie sanders and elizabeth warren have had ideas in that direction, but to go and pander to essentially fewer than 78,000 voters that determined this election that in my view were sort of not a great candidacies by hillary clinton, still won the popular vote by 3 million, i think it just a fool's errand

and to claim that the criticism of identity politics on the democratic side by some democrats is ridiculous. this is white identity politics tonight to pander to. let's put up the numbers there. in the three states that were surprise wins for donald trump, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin, pennsylvania, the margin was only 68,000 vote, wisconsin about 28,000 votes. so your argument is democrats should have joust gotten more base voters in those? your. >> there were 2008 counties who voted for obama twice and then went for trump. three quarters of them lived in the red state -- a lot of them clinton was going to win anyway. mediocre african-american turnout. were in states where they're solidly blue anyway. >> i want to show you a map. our great producers of the show put this map together and it looked at the split.

if you look to my left, you see that election split by count. a lot of that in the medal just for the viewers to know, there are not a lot of people there, humans there. but it's all red. and you go to the right and you look at where the foormd has taken hold. the two maps look identical. the people benefiting from things like obamacare are in these red states. so do democrats have a case to make those should be democratic voters? >> they should be but if they're not going to be reached by the democratic party because they're dug in with breitbart and fox news and propaganda, you can't reach them. let's face it a lot of these voters voted for a president and a party who is going to take away their health care, take away also addiction coverage, which had been added under the affordable care act in states where the epidemic of drugs is out of control. >> and there was actually a guy

who that point was made of, this a guy traveling all over the country playing his guitar. he taechbtd 40 different realize and he's come to the conclusion he's been duped. >> do you play this guitar anymore? >> nope. >> why not? >> i'm not on the trump trail anymore, and live lost my heart to play the trump songs. >> moss, who believes his son might still be a live if who he had health insurance can't believe trump supports the republican health care plan. >> so that's craig moss. are you saying democrats should have no sympathy for that man? and not try to go get him >>, absolutely, have sympathy if this guy, he's open to hearing reason and hearing what the actual facts are. but there are a lot of voters that would have voted a public republican ticket no matter who was on it. they don't want to hear it. they don't want to believe the affordable care act is obamacare

which they hate, even when they're being covered by it. >> or that medicare is a government program. to your point, you have this po poll from "washington post" saying only 3% of trump voters regret their vote after all that has happened. is that now the deathly nail for democrats? is it the death nail for the chase. they don't control anything. >> well, they do. they have to rebuild from the ground up. the most popular leaders of the democratic party, warren, sanders and bind, are all social security age. the situation at the local and state level is terrible and they've got to build from democratic principles, not by pandering to actually a smaller minority of voters that shows no signs of being pried loose and hasn't during the entire friday

era. do you think he shouldn't don't even the democratic party? he's not even in the party himself. >> that's a good question, and he shouldn't probably wants to on his own terms which is to not have a lot of old line establishment democratic thinking that went belly up last november. >> let me give you the counterargument to what you're saying. what you wrote in your piece. this is what the wire had to say to you. she said these pieces, like yourself, ignore fact that these people like people across the nation did not vote for donald trump, this genre of hillbilly ignores the protests are happening here just as frequently as in new york and the for this genre's existence is to reality that the average trump voter is a college educated white individual of some means,

not a hillbilly. the sole reason is to provide the elite to feel superior. >> i think it's an over simplification. our side of the aisle there are a lot of white middle class class people who voted for trump. just as there are white working class. the poorest people voted for clinton. so i was talking about one segment of the trump electorate, not all of it. there are a group that are just as loyal to him and maybe they can be reached. i hope. but who knows. >> and do you see any signs that the democratic national committee has fundamentally changed any of their thinking other than just trying to readopt this old strategy of trying to convert white voters to the democratic party. >> it's just early.

>> how much time do we give them. it literally march. on that subject. did this debate over obamacare chang anything fundamentally? you did see a lot of red state voters discover that the health care they had was obamacare and decided they wanted to keep it? >> i really hope that's the case. we need to see polling a week from now. what if this sort of suicide by the republican administration and leadership in washington did actually did cause some intractable voters to look and reconsider and look at the facts? we'll see. or is there still going to be 3% defect from trump. >> keep your government hands off my medicare. thank you so much for being here. it is such a treat. >> thank you very much. up next, who won the week? stay with us.

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be sure to tune in tomorrow morning. we'll discuss the growing concerns about donald trump as credibility at home and around the world. and i'll be joined by chris hayes for a discussion of his new book "a colony in a nation" where he tackles the history of american justice and grace. but up next, our panel will tell you who who won the week. stay tuned. yeah, our insurance won't do that. no. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance

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time to ask my guests who won the week. jess martin luther king jr. intosh, and david korn. who one the week? >> i'm not going to say obama or nancy pelosi. i'm going to say jeff jeans and you're going to ask. if you remember back in january, there was a town hall meeting on cnn, sorry to mention a competitor with paul ryan. we see him on the screen there. jeff jeans, a conservative who worked for ronald reagan telling paul ryan obamacare saved his

life. he had cancer, he's be daddy without obamacare. so standing in for the millions of americans whose hives were saved or improved by obamacare, they are the winners thanks to trump and the prooinz incompetency. >> wow. that is amazing. jiffy jeans. that's going to be hard to top. >> i know. my choice is pelosi and david just embarrassed me. nancy pelosi gets a lot of flak for being from san francisco. she gets a lot of flak from republicans and some democrats. but five republicans members of congress admitted to me this week that if she were the republican speaker, the bill would have gone to the floor or maybe it would have taken a few months, no one is better than whipping and organized than nancy pelosi. many people don't know she grew up in baltimore. her father was the mayor of

baltimore and a congressman. she's no longer san francisco nancy, she's baltimore nancy. >> what's amazing is that traditional politics actually did win, and people who were scoffing at keeping nancy pelosi as the leader of the democrats because she's on in years or whatever people want to say, nancy pelosi is fierce. she's the best speaker of the house in 60 years. >> she raised $100 million for democrats. if you're a democrat, that's what you should care about against republicans. she keeps the caucus. >> she popped her collar this week. i was like, nancy. she's baltimore nancy. absolutely. top that. >> there's a coalition that you probably never heard of called protect our care. these men and women have been working literally since obamacare passed through this week and they won. they were making sure that average americans knew exactly

what the cost of the repeal was going to be. they have been pulling all nighters for years, and i hope this weekend they're getting rest. >> i think that's great. i love that jeff jeans was an unknown. i think grassroots activism won the week because you had people all over the country who stood up for themselves and scared the bejesus out of republicans. >> republicans were admit admitting to getting on a show saying 2,000 something calls against the bill and a has an handful of calls for the by that's incredible. >> wins like this, that means we can carry it straight through. the resistances just keep racking up wins. >> accounted win midterms. >> the interesting thing is we saw in 2010 the tea party rise

up against the bailout and they turned against obamacare. but they managed to put that energy into some activity sometimes even in primaries against republicans that were too moderate. the question is the women's march that we've seen rise up against the health care bill. can it be corrected into electoral opportunities and that it means party has to take advantage of that and they have the infrastructure to do it. >> and they have to listen to nancy pelosi. she and harry reid don't get enough credit. we miss harry reed. chuck schumer has big shoes to fill. let's do a moment of zen. we all agree that grassroots activism and nancy pelosi won the week, defeating the overturning of obamacare which was the guiding principal of republicans for seven years. it's amazing that that was overturned and that's done. so i agree with that. let's do some things here. i have to give a shout out for

it to the students at howard university. they're getting a google on. they're getting a satellite campus in silicon valley that's going to train students from that historically black college do coding that. wins the week because that brings people jobs. we like our kids to get jobs because that's the whole point. the other person who won the week, jason. whether he is being aqua man, this is just for myself. he 2001 week. let's play the new justice league trailer. >> the aquaman. >> again i can buy him electronic body parts. he's a sigh boring. >> you worked probably move. >> whoever you're looking for, it's not him. >> is it batman? >> there it is, your moment of zen, dc come mix will not be set

aside. does it feel like to anyone else we're living in a graphic novel. there's a green guy in russia why is it trump is actually a dystopian supervillain for sure. there's an alliance thing happening. >> steven bannon is the super villain here. sort of one perverse form of go that many city. >> yes. >> maybe like lesion, theist parasite. >> he did compare himself to lennon and satan. >> which is much better than dick cheney. >> david corn said that, not i. >> i've always said is house of cards realistic? it's a documentary now.

>> it's too mild. you guys are great that is our show for today. "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern live from our nation's capital, washington, d.c. stay with us, msnbc. as they age and grow. whether it be with customer contracts, agreements to lease a space or protecting your work. legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you, every step of the way. so you can focus on what you do and we'll handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. legalzoom. legal help is here. there's nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation if my plans change. visit booking.com. booking.yeah.

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tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. if you are one of the millions of americans who called your member of congress or went to a demonstration or vigil or made a sign or screamed your guts out at a town hall to try to save the affordable care act, for you this is a very happy friday indeed. 24 million americans are not going to lose their health insurance because the republican plan to get rid of obamacare failed today in a quite ignominious way. tonight we have the senior most democrat in washington, the top senate democrat chuck schumer here with us this evening to talk about what is just an epic ap