>> the president is disappointed in the number of people he thought were loyal to him that weren't. >> people weren't going to vote for the bill anyway. by doing that, they ended up alienating center or moderates. >> dependent on those two groups, conservatives and moderates to come together. >> tweeted this, democrats are smiling in d.c. that the freedom caucus with the help of club for growth and heritage have saved planned parenthood and o care. >> this big, plenty of blame. president trump pointed finger at democrats before taking in conservatives. through their name moderate republicans stuck in the middle while reince priebus and paul ryan deep in damage control. winning in washington just might take more than a tweet. this morning we're going to speak with founding member of the house freedom caucus,

congressman jim jordan, plus a congressman who just dropped out of that group, texas republican ted poe. and from an entirely different wing of the gop, congressman tom cole joins us this morning. good morning. it is monday march 27th. >> what do you think of that? >> my dad's birthday. >> welcome back. >> thank you. you, too. former adviser george w. bush, co-creator and executive producer of the circus. >> same day, nothing to do after the election. >> nothing to do this weekend. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters here and former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner with us as well. nothing happened while i was gone. maybe you want to explain it all. >> i can't explain it all. for the republicans, it's better to be lucky than good. it doesn't matter why that bill failed, that bill needed to fail. >> a bad bill. >> horrific.

they didn't explain it. they took 24 million people off insurance rolls, instead of explaining some of those people would have chosen not to get insurance but they never explained anything. it was the stupidest setup. the white house if they should be kicking themselves for any reason, they should be kicking themselves for actually listening to the house and not doing what they thought first. >> exactly right, saving themselves. republicans criticizes democrats forever for jamming it through in the dead of night and not taking long enough when they took years to get it through. they did exactly the same thing. they jammed it through in the middle of the night. >> they tried to do it in 17 days. >> then they quit in 17 days. >> waved white flag, didn't say let's go to committee. >> pathetic. >> who ever heard of a major piece of legislation passing in 17 days an they just quit. >> how do you change one-fifth of the economy in 17 days.

it's like this is the gang that couldn't shoot straight. i do want to say one thing, mika. we've all been very concerned about the white house, concerned about steve bannon saying he's a lennonist, he's going to tear down the government, challenges to the courts, questioning the courts, calling the press the enemy of people. i think we should 60 or so days in stop, hold on a second. let's see how mr. "hamilton" and mr. madison's government is doing. the president's first executive order which caused protests across the globes, the court shut it down. the president's first health care package, first significant package, congress shut it down. every step he takes, every move he makes, every tweet he breaks, the press is there every second hounding him. >> checking and balancing. >> the first amendment is alive and well. hamilton and madison's

constitution is alive and well. we can for now, just for now, we can take to our origins of totalitarianism off the book shelf and put it in a drawer and maybe wait to open it until later. but right now the system is working. >> the very people -- >> right now your daughter is calling you. you're on tv and she's calling you right at 6:03. >> okay. she really is. >> do you want to get it. >> no, i'll get her in a sound bite, i guess. >> the very people he's calling fake news, he's calling on the telephone and trying to mold the story and even promoting and probably colluding with, because i don't know how you promote a show on fox and then find that show to be complete ly supportie of you. it was such an unbelievable call. fake news, interesting. >> one thing we thought -- talk about something we both found very interesting. his initial response to the

defeat, that was donald trump that few people had seen. you used the word "gracious." >> everybody was very snarky talking about his coverage of the bill. i thought for the first time he was incredibly gracious and he took responsibility. in that moment he took responsibility. you look at that alone and ask some young students i was talking to to look at that alone, that alone was a very good moment for him. >> let us hope chairman peters it shows he does understand now despite the fact he has hacks around him like steve bannon. i will call steve bannon a hack. when you go in and threaten members, you're not only a hack, you're stupid at your game. you should go back to running your website. i warned him -- i warned from the beginning, don't do health care, don't threaten members. i can't tell you what happened when presidents threatened me.

i can't tell you my response to them but i know this, i had it right there and i kept it right there and it was on my hard drive. if somebody tells me what i have to do and i've been elected by 700,000 people, every chance i get to kick their teeth in in the legislative process, i'm going to kick their teeth in. this is politics 101. bannon failed miserably. he is the biggest loser. >> it's kind of a depressing place to be in a democracy to think things are not happening because the party in power can't get its act together. that's the only -- if you're an opponent of trump, that's the only thing you have going for you. they are so dysfunctional they can't possibly implement policies they want to implement. to your point -- >> like hogan's heroes. they are not good at it. >> trump was elected without a congressional wing of his party,

right? so this is a problem with not just being an outsider but a problem with being somebody who doesn't really show much care or interest in the details of governing. he doesn't have a constituency. >> mika, maybe we'll see this moving forward with tax cuts. what was so stupid about adopting paul ryan's right wing, chopped up, not pure enough, not kind enough health care package was, it was like a frankenstein health care package. he abandoned his base. trump does have a base. it's mainstream republicans. it's moderate republicans, and it's moderate democrats. he could pass any bill he wanted to pass by picking off 30 or 40 democrats. you think he puts a good health -- steve rattner wants tax reform. steve rattner wants the

corporate tax rate reduced. >> out of the gate just like george w. bush. >> wait. but the plan that would help those very people you're talking about, the people who voted for him, those working class whites, it's called obamacare, that plan -- >> steve, obamacare is not built to last and we all know that. >> obamacare could be fixed quite easily. >> and democrats want to fix it. >> they do. >> improve it. >> so they will get health care reform done next year, probably, but he will be working with chuck schumer as well as mitch mcconnell. here is a lesson, okay. i'm sorry, i love all my friends in the house but don't go to house leadership to get stuff done. go to mitch mcconnell and go to chuck schumer and sit down and say what can you boys pass in the senate. >> end up there anyway, right? >> going to end up there. if they had passed this bill, mika, for every one drop the art

of the deal, there would have been 100 saying it's dead on arrival in the senate. every senator would have said it's too harsh or too moderate. this the best thing. start where you're going to end. go to mitch and go to schumer. >> it turned into the art of the ordeal. >> you know tax legislation has to start in the house. that's the way it works. >> read constitution, everything starts in the house, it just doesn't work that way. when i was there, it's still not going to work that way. >> let's get to some elements, the president saying on the failure of all of this, next time it should include democrats in the process. take a look. >> i think we can have things i would have liked more. if we had bipartisan, i think we could have a health care bill that would be the ultimate. i think the democrats know that also. someday in the not too distant future, that will happen. i really believe there will be some democrat support and that will happen and it will be an

even better bill. i'll tell you what's going to come out of it is a better bill. i really believe a better bill. there were things in this bill i didn't particularly like. i think it's a better bill. both parties can get together and do real health care. that's the best thing. obamacare was rammed down everyone's throat 100% democrat. i think having bipartisan would be a big, big improvement. >> this health care plan was rammed down everybody's throat in shorter order. they didn't have time to cut it up. but here is the thing though, you said the democrats wouldn't work with them on anything, what you do is make a bill they have to vote yes on. i remember during contract with america, it's a contract on america. the republicans -- we drew up legislation that was 80/20 legislation. something like 0% of the house voted on all of that stuff.

>> so what would health care bill look like. >> i'm not talking health care. you work with chuck schumer who represents rich people on wall street. you also work with democrats on moderate states that are going to want to work with you. they can get 70 votes on a tax reform bill that started with chuck schumer and started with mitch mcconnell. but if you start with paul ryan and you start with aei wing of the republican party, you ain't passing it through the senate. >> okay. i agree with that. but the tax bill chuck schumer would sign on for would look nothing like the tax bill paul ryan proposed. >> exactly. >> that trump has proposed. >> exactly. here is the news. i love paul ryan and i'm a conservative from that wing of the party, it ain't passing the senate. those aren't the people that get donald trump elected in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania or ohio. it's not like we haven't been saying that every day on this show for 62 days.

you don't start with paul ryan and heritage action and the freedom caucus and everybody else. by the way, guess what, a lot of they will aren't going to vote for it. that's okay because you're going to get 40 democrats voting for it. you're going to want corporate tax rates lowered. they are going to want to be competitive with the rest of the world. freedom caucus. i know this, you know why? i was in something like the freedom caucus. >> this the truth. >> this the truth. we fought, shut them down. finally they go like this, okay, you can vote no. we'll get 40 democrats. we just sat there. you know what we did? we sat there going, oh, okay. that's what you do. if you say if you're not going to vote with us we're going to get the democrats. we don't care either way but we're passing bills. >> this democratic party isn't going to go with much of anything. tax reform is a nonstarter.

they want to raise rates for the highest earners, right? they are not going to go along with a bill that cuts rates for them. >> claire mccaskill who is running next year votes against lowering corporate tax rates to be competitive with the rest of the world she will lose her election. she will lose business support. if joe manchin in west virginia decides that he's going to vote against common sense tax reform that helps businesses in west virginia, he will lose. if heidi heitkamp, they will. >> i don't disagree. when you get into tax reform, it's as much about dysfunction in the republican party as the democratic party. they can't figure out a way to lose. gorsuch is the exact same thing. they know they are going to lose this, yet they are wasting their ammunition. >> i'm going to help donald trump, this is what you do. you're chuck schumer. okay. you can be mitch mcconnell. >> what have you got, mr. trump. >> mitch, know what you want.

chuck, what do you need? what do you need? >> i need a load of corporate tax -- >> what can't you take? what can't you take? exactly. >> what can't you take? >> he can't take individual tax cuts that favor the rich, precisely what -- >> i can simplify. >> simplify is a code word. >> we understand, we all agree we want to flatten the tax code. we want to lower the corporate tax rate not for the most powerful corporations but for the people in upstate new york. >> joe, you're exactly right. >> this is easy. it really is. this is easy. if that's where your start. if you start with, chuck, what do you need? mitch, what do you need? i'm going to talk to paul later today and find out what he can live with. that's where you start. you don't start with heritage acti

action. i'm not knocking them, that's my wing of the party. that will never pass the party. never. >> this is what happens when you have a white house with policy they outsource like the judicial to federalist society. >> who did a great job. gorsuch is a grand slam. >> do you think that's an accident it's going well? they outsourced it. >> outsourced it to the federal society. again, with all due respect to my friend paul ryan, they outsourced the most important fix to a guy who is smart and ernest and a policy wonk but is not tip o'neill. >> speaking of paul ryan. >> when it comes to gathering votes. one other thing, too. >> oh, my lord. >> the stupidity of steve bannon knows no end. they didn't have anybody -- if they had somebody in the white house who actually knew how washington works, then this would never have happened.

steve bannon needs to run a super pac. he's an idiot. >> do you think when he threatened people to go for the bill that was a little ham fisted. >> the last time somebody told me what to do i was 18 and it was my father and that didn't turn out well either. >> speaking of paul ryan, here is paul ryan talking about the growing pains the party is going through. >> moving from opposition party to governing party comes with growing pains. well, we're feeling those growing pains today. we came really close today but we came up short. doing big things is hard. all of us, all of us, myself included, we will need time to reflect on how we got to this moment, what we could have done to do it better. but ultimately, this all kind of comes down to a choice. are all of us willing to give a little to get something done? are we willing to say yes to the good, the very good, even if it's not the perfect? >> you know, he was there

because they forced it. they tried to fix one-fifth of the economy in 17 days. >> i will say i was there in the room, i thought he was great. he owned it. >> the president was good, too. >> great guy. >> "new york times" cast doubt on the relationship between the white house and the speaker's office. quote, several trump allies have suggested mr. ryan has still failed to grasp fully the lessons of the president's election and its rejection of political dogma, the most ominous signals have proliferated on sites like breitbart. then there was this tweet from the president promoting a show on fox news. >> promotes shows a lot. >> i thought he was going to be on it. when viewers tuned in, this is what the host jeanine said. >> paul ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house. you know, americans elected the one man they believed could do

it. a complete outsider. someone beholden to no one but th them. and speaker ryan, you come in with all your swagger and your experience and you sell them a bill of goods which ends up a complete and total failure. and you allow our president, in his first 100 days, to come out of the box like that? based on what? >>. >> i'm tweeting it like it was bachelor. >> i put on my pajamas and sat down. >> turn on judge jeanine. >> judge jeanine, she's my man, woman. it was a joke, mika. >> i'm so stuck on that. that was a lot. there was a lot going on there. >> a lot going on there. >> whew. >> if they think it's bad with paul ryan running the place, try

to replace paul ryan. that's not the answer. the answer is -- >> that is a setup? >> he's the best choice. >> yes. he's great at what he does. there's nobody -- he's feeling -- it's interesting, democrats factional party, we're seeing how factional the republicans are, how difficult it is to govern in the house of representatives. paul ryan does an admirable job. >> saying watch and this woman screaming paul ryan should step down. i'm sorry, i'm stuck on that that's crazy. crazy. >> paul ryan, though -- paul ryan's position is not saying this is where we take washington. paul ryan's job is, like i said, you've got the president talking to the senate and going to paul going, paul, what do you need? what can you get through your house? how many republicans are you going to lose because i'm going to get those democrats. >> i think that's the whole problem with this deconstruction of the administrative state,

this tear down and destroy washington. >> what comes next? what comes next? >> steve bannon. it's steve bannon who doesn't know how washington works. the tweet not only the weekend but perhaps of the 21st century was, he's going to be on later today, all members must bow down to me. i am steve bannon. i have been in politics since august 2016. i used to run a website. that's where we are. he blew this, because the president doesn't have anybody on the inside that can come to the hill and do just what we were talking about. what do you need? how is this looking? >> i've heard plenty of theories from bannon over the years about what needs to happen in washington and how we're at this pivotal point in history, it's clear institutions are failing us and they need to be torn down and rebuilt. i haven't heard what comes next.

they are good at destruction but not rebuilding. >> here is the problem. you can't tear down washington if you don't have somebody who knows how washington works. we are a nation of laws, not a nation of website builders, of dudes who don't shave or brush their hair who say they are lenin. he wants to stair down the st e state. if you want to beat washington, you have to have somebody who knows how washington works. >> nobody knows how it works. >> nobody. >> even goldman sachs guy. even gary, good guy, doesn't know how it works. >> he knows something is wrong. >> reince knows how to run the rnc, doesn't know how capitol hill works. none of them do, steve. >> but you have paul ryan who

knows how washington works, who everybody thinks is a good guy. why did he go along with this gong show. >> gong show, that's really good. >> this was paul ryan's parade. >> okay. >> he was the one that told trump to start with this. >> why? >> because he is a policy wonk and he has been from the day i met him when he was 22. he's really smart guy. he's the guy that explains to stupid guys, hey, this is what -- >> what you're saying by omission is he's a policy guy without political skills. >> he doesn't have good political skills, he never has. he hasn't. i'm glad he's speaker of the house. he's great. i've loved the guy since the first day i met him but he is not tip o'neill. you have different skill sets. unfortunately trump doesn't have a single sherpa around him that

can guide him through the ways of washington. that's why he lost. >> discovering washington is the ocean. you know what, the ocean usually wins. >> what do i say? what do i say nonstop? washington always wins. youler learn how to play by the rules. i said it to obama's people, bush's people, i'm saying it to trump's people from day one. the press always win. by the way, if you read mcmasters book, what does mcmasters say? be humble, have a good relationship with the press, all the things this administration is not doing. trump should read those books that he suggests. >> trump should read a book. >> stop it. >> "morning joe" -- >> you are so mean. >> the art of the deal. that was a great one. >> founding member -- >> all your books were great, liked that a lot. >> every woman should buy it. >> he went to mika's book party and said, greatest book since

the guttenberg bible. read it. >> he may not have read that. >> is that on your book jacket, mika. >> i am really rusty. i'm going to break now. founding member of the house freedom caucus congressman jim jordan joins us plus a kmab who just quit that group texas republican ted poe. and tom cole. also head press secretary josh earnest and chris coons on the fight to fill the supreme court. plus -- >> i'm going to try to find that middle, i'm going to try to talk with president-elect donald trump and find out if there's a pathway to common sense. he could really help this dialogue by saying, come on, people, that doesn't make sense. you're going to let a guy go to a gun show and a table and buy anything they want and not check them. i hope they would get involved.

>> less than an hour after that appearance on "morning joe," senator manchin got a call. how that could play a role. >> i talked a lot in that block. i promise you i'm going to talk less in the next half hour. >> this is the stuff you know about so i allowed. i'm rusty. >> love your passion. >> good passion. a check on some severe weather. bill. >> severe storms, talk a little about winter continuing in the northeast as painful as that is. texas yesterday a lot of hail reports with the storms. we did have some hail damage. you can see the backyard, that was pretty impressive. golf ball-sized hail. as far as today, we do have a lot of people at risk for severe weather. next couple of days, southern half we're in spring. storms this morning south of st. louis, missouri, arkansas. those aren't severe. later on today, watch out. paducah, greenville, tupelo, up to nashville, maybe an isolated tornado but big threat is wind

damage and hail. northeast, new england, rainy morning, this is freezing rain in new hampshire. snow in maine. miserable conditions in areas of new hampshire and vermont. above average temperatures on the way. finally areas from the south are going to share a little bit with areas from the north. washington, d.c., today should hit about 75 degrees. even new york will feel warm compared to how chilly this march has been. new york city one of those spots deal with rainy, slow morning. at least it's not snow. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. knowing where you stand. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making retirement planning clearer. and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future

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we want a very big tax cut but cannot do that until we keep our promise to repeal and replace the disaster known as obamacare. we've got to get this done before we can do the other. in other words, we have to know what this is before we can do

the big tax cuts. we've got to get it done for a lot of reasons but that's one of them. >> by the way, we had to go -- had no choice -- had to go with the health care first. you know how it works. this is the one room that really does know how it works. but we had to go with the health care first. we're doing well. i think we're going to have some great surprises. i hope it's going to all work out. then we immediately start with the tax cuts and they are going to be fantastic. i am looking forward to that one. that one is going to be fun. that's called the wheelhouse. >> we'll probably be going right now for tax reform, which we could have done earlier but this really would have worked out better if we could have had some democrat support. remember this, no democrat support, so now we're going to go for tax reform, which i've always liked. >> so listen, there is a point where george w. bush was in trouble, about like this.

and he got rid of his chief of staff. he brought in somebody else. there were mass firings. it made a really big difference. i hate to say this, it is obvious steve bannon is not up to the task. it's obvious he needs people around him that actually know how to run the white house. >> that's why some of the language was interesting, saying this was interesting. he's at least saying it's a teachable moment. the question is it? you've got to send the message in perception and reality that you heard the message. you're going to do things differently. you have to show signs you actually are. >> trump over the course of his campaign and over the course of his presidency so far has not shown a capacity to learn from his mistakes and correct them. if he does, that would ab huge change. that's why there's a lot of pessimism. >> when you do that, people give you a second chance. the press does. everybody does. >> if he gets rid of a lot of people around him that let him

walk over this cliff, you know, they need to take responsibility, first of all, and say we screwed up. we let the president down. i haven't seen that yet. everybody is pointing at the freedom caucus. they put the gun in the freedom caucus's hand and let the freedom caucus kill this bill. >> ahead steve rattner brought one chart, why -- >> why just one. >> i didn't want to exhaust my welcome. >> and bring in "new york times" robert draper for his big cover story on trump. >> great story. >> "morning joe" back in a moment.

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37 past the hour. >> metaphor moment. jeremy peters, you first. keep that up. come on. >> metaphor. >> that's -- the fog of war. >> foggy on capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe." joe, metaphor. >> no, thank you. i just had one.

now from washington, d.c., "new york times" magazine writer -- >> what? >> means nothing. trump versus congress. writes this, trump wanted to make sure he was given adequate credit for his achievements even in his administration's infancy. we've only been here a tiny speck of time he said. what i've done with regulations, moving jobs back into the country, what i've done with airplane pricing and buying is amazing. we've done a lot. i think i've done more than anybody for this short period of time. >> my gosh. >> abraham lincoln, franklin roosevelt would take exception to that. consisted entirely of executive orders when he has not yet demonstrated is his ability to actually shepherd a bill into law. you get about nine months to do big things, kevin mccarthy, the house majority leader told me at the beginning of the year. but more than two of those months are gone and the path to the future wins as trump foresaw

it in the freedom caucus is now more complicated. >> yeah, robert draper, good to have you with us. is there any possibility with tax reform of having success or is the road too bumpy at this point? >> mika, they are making it sound like this is going to be something easy because all republicans love to cut taxes. that may be so, but speaker ryan is introducing into the package border adjustment tax which is something he developed a broke manslaught -- bromance with steve bannon on it. a lot are against it, democrats are against it. once again, this is a case where republicans coalesced around the notion they hated obamacare but not around a remedy for it. they don't as yet have a specific remedy for what they want in a tax reform package. president trump from what i understand wants to have lowered

corporate taxes, but he also wants to have tax cuts for the middle and lower classes. that's not going to generate a whole lot of revenue and it remains to be seen whether republicans will go along with that. >> robert, let's talk about the players in your piece. it's astounding, reminds me of jimmy carter having problems with tip o'neill early on in his administration, giving tip o'neill very bad seats for inaugural event which tip remembered so well he wrote about it in his autobiography later. the contempt steve bannon has for members of congress, not only in this piece but last week is pretty incredible. same thing with donald trump. a lot of threats are being pointed towards the legislative branch. was that -- how surprising was that to you that they just don't understand how washington works? >> well, i think what steve bannon understands or what he believes he understands is how donald trump got elected.

he got elected in the districts occupied by a lot of these freedom caucus guys. his assumption, mistaken assumption, i think, was that simply by reminding freedom caucus members, hey, look, this populist message resonated well. the president is popular in your districts, you're going to have to fall in line, therefore just acquiesce. it's true freedom caucus members don't have an easy time saying yes to things but they certainly know how to say no and that's what they did again. >> robert, it's steve rattner. pretty much every new administration comes win a team and then they find one or two people aren't working out and make some changes. in other cases when the president gets off to a very slow start they realize wrong team, wrong organization and make more nanlg changes. what's your guess as to what we're going to see from this administration in terms of shaking up the west wing as it becomes clear it's not functioning properly. >> sure, steve, two things. first of all, let's just make

note of the fact this starts at the top. i think the real failure in the obamacare replacement debacle was a failure on the part of the president himself to understand exactly what he wanted to see in such a package. he did an all together not so sincere job of selling this. he described it to me as a big bundle of goodies and was continually saying on the campaign trail he wanted something terrific, but he didn't have an idea what the product was he was selling. he's going to have to advance on this learning curve. the second to your question, i do anticipate if things don't go with tax reform, snafus there, heads are going to roll. the obvious likely candidate is reince priebus. he does not have wide constituency with the white house despite he has packed it with personnel to his liking. i think if there's anybody on the hot seat in senior advisory position it would be priebus. i think bannon, for all of tyou

showing him, will be around for a long time. nothing to show that's taking place. bannon there as long as he wants to be. >> mckinnon, great piece. you've got a ton of insight into the president and people around him but what's your net takeaway of where they are right now and where would they be next week? >> yeah. i think it was very, very unsettling weekend. but what people around the president tend to do is, i mean, essentially provide him as many lollipops as they can to placate him. no one is telling him, mr. president, this is on you. you're right, democrats are to blame. we'll move on democrats later. let's move on tax reform which will be ever so easy. what they are trying to do and what they tried to do with obamacare replacement is find a win for president trump. they are convincing him right now that they have it within themselves to provide such a win

for him with tax reform. >> all right, jeremy. >> hi, robert. quick question here on spending reform. you talk about tax reform and there being an agreement in theory among republicans about at least cutting taxes. how to do that is much more complicated but how to reform spending seems to be another huge sticking point here and i wonder where trump's head is on doing what paul ryan wants to do is reform the entitlement system. >> let me put this plainly, jere jeremy, he doesn't want to be entitlement reform. talked to freedom caucus over and over. they were saying he's going to come to jesus on this, realizing dealing with expressionary nonmilitary part of the budget isn't going to cut the mustard, get us to a balanced budget. they may well be right about that but president trump is firm about this. i had asked him plainly, these guys who want entitlement reform should not hold their breath. i do think you're right.

he essentially gave that message to jeremy throughout the campaign trail. that should not be surprising to us. if anything, president trump went on to say he believed we needed to prime the pump, which he explained meant spend more money to make more money. if anything he's sounding like keynesian liberal. >> a great writer, easy way, hard way and draper way. >> thank you. we'll be reading new issue of the new york city magazine. robert draper, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. ahead this morning when robert costa saw a blocked number on his phone he thought it was an angry reader calling him. it happens. turns out it was president of the united states. he describes the conversation and his latest reporting from the "washington post" ahead. must-read opinion pages maureen dowd's letter to her old friend. can we all agree we should spend

the block reading that, the whole damn thing. it kind of crystallizes everything, everything you need to know. everything the president needs to know. that's straight ahead.

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it's 50 past the hour. should we do more dowd? i'm going to read it until you stop me. dear donald, we've known each other for a long time so i think i can be blunt. you know how you said at mpaignallies that you didn't like to be identifieds a politician, don't worry, no one will ever mistake you for a politician. after this week they won't even mistake you for a top-notch negotiator. my primary observation about washington is this.

unless you're careful you end up turning into what you started off scorning. you, donald, are getting a reputation of a sucker, and a sucker that is the tool of the d.c. establishment. your whole campaign was mocking your rivals, jawing about how americans had turned into losers with their bad deals and obamacare disaster and you were going to fly in on your gilded plane and fix all that in a snap. you mused that a good role model would be ronald reagan. as you saw it, he was a big, good-looking guy with a famous pompdachlt our. he had also been a democrat and an entertainer. >> hold on one second. i want us to slow down and read this in slow motion because this is the money line. >> but reagan had one key quality that you don't have. he knew what he didn't know. you both resembled macy's thanksgiving day balloon. >> i just want to stop.

we're going to continue reading this. but he knew what he didn't know. for anybody that's ever run a business, that's ever run a political office, that's ever run a newsroom, that's the kiss of death, isn't it? >> yeah. >> you surround yourself by people who are smarter than you, more gifted than you, that can teach you every day. >> george w. bush knew what he didn't know. good presidents know what they don't know. >> every good executive knows what they don't know. >> and hires people that fill in those gaps. i've said it here before. but when i first met my chief of staff, i was 30. and i said to him, your job is to make me the dumbest guy in the room every day. and he laughed. i said it may be easy, but it's not going to be that easy. teach me every day. that's what you need. and trump, he just refuses to get people who know more than he knows close to him.

>> there's another saying. a players hire a players and b players hire b players and trump himself is a b player in so many respects that he has surrounded himself zblsh a himself. >> and c players hire d players. >> you both resembled mace's day balloons but president reagan was confident enough to accept that he needed experts below, deftally maneuvering the strings. you're just careening around on your own, crashing into buildings, losing altitude, growling at the cameras and spewing nasty conspiracy theories instead of offering a sunny smile, bipartisanship, optimism and professionalism. >> mika, this is what you have said all along. donald trump -- for people who meet him. ask elijah cummings. >> that's what he's like in real life. >> ask democrats that have met him in real life i know this is impossible for people who never

met with him. he's optimistic. he's sunny. he's happy. he's complimentary. he's positive. >> can be very charming. >> he is. >> the most charming guy in person. zble >> he could do this. >> maureen knows that as well. >> she says it so much better. you promised to get the best people around you in the white house, the best of the best. in fact, best is one of your favorite words. instead you dragged in that motley skeleton crew into the white house and let them create a feud iing, leaking, belligere, conspiratorial, sycophantic atmosphere. instead of a smooth, classy operator like james baker you have a manichaaean anarchist in steve bannon. >> reince priebus, you're the

chief of staff and need to take this on your shoulders and say i let you down, mr. president. not the freedom caucus. not paul ryan. steve bannon needs to say the same thing. you know what, mr. president? i was stupid. i shouldn't have threatened members of congress who were elected and represent the people. >> and mr. president you made a mistake. >> we need to get somebody in here who knows how capitol hill runs. >> who is going to say that to him? who? >> maureen is saying it. >> that's the problem. >> that's the key. >> who is going to tell him the truth? the truth that they all know around him. who is going to tell the president the truth? >> jared is probably in the best position to do it, right? >> you know what? i'll just say it. he is very, very, very smart. he does not know washington. >> but to tell him that he needs somebody who knows. >> he should tell him that. >> up to this point, everybody around the president and the president, they think they're smarter than washington. they think they know better than

everybody else. they think -- >> i wish -- >> i said it to the obama people, to everybody who walks through those gates january 20th thinks they're smart er than everybody else. and i even laughed at a trump insider at a recent meeting with him and said you really do believe the world started anew the second you walked in the gates. >> that they can beat the ocean. >> yeah. >> you're wrong. it affects people, doesn't it? >> i'll go to tease now. i'm just going to finish it, though. you were humiliated right out of the shoot by the establishment guys who hooked you into their agenda, massive transfer of wealth to rich people and drew you away from your own. you sold yourself as a businessman who could shake things up and make washington work again. instead, you got worked over by the republican leadership and the business community, who set you up to do their bidding. that's why they're putting up with all your craziness about

russia and wiretapping and unending lies and rattling our allies. they're counting on you to be a delusional dupe who didn't even know what was in the bill you were sitting around in a bath robe getting your information from whack-a-doodles on fox news and peppering aides with the query, is this really a good bill? you got played. it took w. years to smash everything. you're way ahead of schedule. and i can say you're doing badly, because i'm a columnist and you're not. say hello to everyone, okay? sincerely, maureen. >> bob costa coming up.

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to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. i think what happened was washington won. washington was a lot more broken than president trump thought it was. you have the status quo wins and unfortunately the folks back home lost. you could blame it on the freedom caucus if you want to. there are also a lot of moderates this place was a lot more rotten than i thought it was. i've been here six years. i know the freedom caucus. i helped found it. i never thought it would come to this. >> is the republican party capable of governing? the man in the white house is

capable of governing. i saw it this week, without a doubt. if anybody had any doubts about president trump's ability to be the president, they should have been put to -- >> really? >> absolutely. >> can't close a deal? >> no, no. >> he said he's the big negotiator. >> people said he couldn't work with different groups in the republican party. this was the president being the president. what you saw this week is simply that things are a lot more rotten in washington than we thought. >> wait. that was -- wow! >> stunning statement. >> that was a pretzel. that was a pretzel. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i'm sorry. >> wow, i just got a headache. >> steve, that would be like somebody that was -- played third base and retired from the red sox. i'm going to take over the physics department at m.i.t., fire all the professors and bring in guys that played baseball and we're going to try to rewrite all the laws of

physics and then they're shocked when all their experiments blow up in their laps. washington's not broken. washington is washington. we have a constitution. learn to play by those rules or things blow up in your face. >> that statement was made by a guy who spent six years on capitol hill as the founder of the freedom caucus. like the scene in casablanca, i can't believe there's gambling going on here. they found surprise whd when they found what was in washington. >> msnbc political analyst and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department's elise jordan and on capitol hill, political reporter for the washington post and msnbc political analyst robert costa. >> speaking of casablanca, look at the fog. straight out of casablanca. >> and in new orleans, best-selling author, walter isaac. >> i have to start with bob costa. you're starting down washington,

smoking your cigar. >> got your hat on. >> walking your bulldog. you have your reporter's hat on with a couple of tickets to the hockey game stiking out of it, spit out your cigar and your phone rings and it's the president of the united states. what's going on, costa? you're suppose d to be an enemy of the people. >> fake news. >> what happened was i was working on a story with trump about deal maker and poking around the white house and capitol about a week about this. i put in an interview request aa few days earlier hoping the president would want to talk i hadn't spoken to him since he had been inaugurated. friday afternoon i was surprised he called to do the interview. i didn't think he was going to do an interview at all. we started to do an interview right on the spot as he called after i had made that request a few days earlier. >> what was his attitude? angry? >> i was surprised at how he

didn't sound angry. you and i have seen him in different kinds of moods, let's say, over the years. he was very even tempered. i tried to draw him out on speaker ryan, freedom caucus and the tuesday group. he was on his talking points and kept turning back again and again to blaming the democrats. >> of course, that did change, jeremy. >> shifted to heritage foundation. >> exactly. just like weather systems in central florida. they are prone to change rapidly. >> it happens. >> and he turned his attention to these conservative groups. he started to figure out, wait a second. i'm only going to be able to pass things if i get 30, 40, 50 democrats working with me. >> it was like a machine gun in one of those old world war ii planes, firing everywhere he can. first it's the democrats, then the freedom caucus, then the outside groups that enabled the freedom caucus, then it was paul

ryan. >> and judge jeannine. >> you promote it a couple of hours with a tweet. that's so presidential. >> was he on her show? >> no. he just randomly -- >> set out this tweet. >> randomly promoted her show where he ranted on paul ryan. >> wait a second. this is -- >> had to be a total coincidence. >> alex, you had said, though, that fox news was overpromoting new details on tapping. so trump may have seen that to show that obama tapped trump's phones? >> reporting that there is some thought that a bug was up that said new details on the russian claims and he may have seen that. >> do you have the sound bite? >> we'll get that. >> there were no details on the

russian tactics. >> exactly. they overplayed their hands. >> right. >> trump hasn't seen twooet twe lot of shows lately. of all the shows in all the world you chose that one. >> he happens to be an old buddy. we report. we decide. here is the sound bite. >> mika, mika, you can't say that. >> why not? >> in the words of paul newman and the absence of malice, prove it. you can't. >> let the story speak for itself. here is jeannine pirro and how the show started. >> paul ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house. americans elected the one man they believed could do it, a complete outsider, someone beholding to no one but them. and speaker ryan, you come in with all your swagger and

experience and you sell them a bill of goods, which ends up a complete and total failure. and you allow our president, in his first 100 days, to come out of the box like that? based on what? >> okay. first of all, you don't want to get rid of paul ryan in the house t only gets worse. trump is attacking republicans for wrecking obamacare bill reform. what this really does mean is that democrats aren't going to work with trump. listen, if they can figure out how to actually work with congress, that's his best way forward, isn't it? >> look, if getting some conservatives and moderate democrats -- >> if trump can moderate his positions to the point where democrats can sign on, things like infrastructure which they'll believe in, sure they'll do it. one, the democrats smell blood in the water at this point in

terms of the weakness of the republicans and trump in general. and like to see them flounder. secondly, you run into the same problem boehner ran into in the house. if you start ignoring your freedom caucus, you could end up not being speaker again. >> unless walter isaac it comes from the white house instead of coming from paul ryan. of all the lessons that trump has learned i have to believe he will not look inward, will not look at steve bannon and what an idiot he is, because he said he wants to destroy everything. but you've got to say the big lesson, the takeaway is that i'm never going to negotiate with the freedom caucus again. i'll pick off 30, 40 democrats. that's what gingrich did to us. that's probably what trump will do to the freedom calk zblus shul. this could

>> absolutely. he could decide to become an independent populist. that's how he ran. he didn't run as somebody who would be been by the freedom caucus. what he said with bob costa interview with the cigar in his mouth is that the notion that the democrats will come to me and we will work together. you would have a major realignment of american politics if trump decided i'm going to govern as a populist independent and try to get people who will fight for the voters that i got, the white and middle class, working class, say i'm going to fight for those voters on taxes, infrastructure and on health care and i'm not going to -- i didn't run to be beholden to the freedom caucus. i ran as an independent. >> that is what was so con founding about him adopting this bill. it wasn't his bill. it wasn't his philosophy. most importantly, it wasn't his

voters. >> exactly. it wasn't his base. >> not the white working class voters in washington, michigan, ohio or pennsylvania. >> it wasn't the voters who he pledged that he wasn't just going to destroy their health care and take away and he was not going to leave you on the streets dying. i don't disagree with what walter said. i think it's an incredible stretch to imagine that democrats would come into the fold like that. but at the end of the day, donald trump is an ideology-free president. he is a democrat. he has been a democrat his entire life. i think his top advisers that he cares about the most, jared kushner and ivanka, they seem to be democrats and steve bannon's nationalist philosophy has some underlying -- >> he's a lennonist. >> exactly. >> trump's populist instincts are fundamentally at odds with the small government conservative vision that paul ryan and many in the house have. so, there's this ideological

clash. and i read about this today in the times. david summed it up well when he said whatever trump is, trump really understood that what republican voters wanted was not what they were being offered. they were being offered more immigration, less health care and another bush. and they wanted -- they didn't want any more bushes. they wanted more health care and less immigration and trump gets that. >> i saw this at the beginning of the primary process when we had 16 candidates and i decided to go with senator paul. this was a candidate who was speaking to a lot of frustrations of primary voters with our big government foreign policy. >> correct. >> out-of-control deficit, the issues that the other more established candidates weren't giving voice to. but it didn't really work out. >> influence over the president coming under more scrutiny. rise and power is the subject of a front page story in usa today

this morning, detailing how his move into the west wing helped bring breitbart news, the organization he once ran, from fringe into the mainstream. he is also making headlines for his direct style. during the meeting with the house freedom caucus on health care last week, bannon's opening line was, quote, guys, look, this is not a discussion. this is not a debate. you have no choice but to vote for this bill. to which one congressman reportedly replied, you know, the last time someone ordered me to do something, i was 18 years old and it was my daddy. and i didn't listen to him either. >> it really -- bob costa, that line stands out, just to show how ignorant he is, how washington works. i cannot -- if somebody had said that in front of our caucus when i was there, we would have all broken out laughing. it is -- you can tell these guys

just don't have any experience in washington or working the hill. it showed last week. >> when we talk about these guys, meaning the white house, it's really three different factions that are emerging after this health care fallout. i'm told from my top sources inside that bannon is working with miller to do more populism, more nationalism, more hard line against some of these blocks against the congress. prieb priebus, the chief of staff and his team, working closely are ryan and then you have gary cohn and jared kushner working with the business community, during their projects and this is all swirling around the president of the united states. >> what are you hearing inside? i heard somebody tell me they thought bannon was hurt the most by this. another source high up in the white house that told me priebus was hurt the most.

>> he was skiing in aspen. >> i wish he would be more forceful with the president. >> you don't fire your son-in-law. and jared keeps his head down, low. but what are you hearing as far as is it priebus, is it bannon? who was damaged the most inside by this? >> it's hard to say, joe, because the knives are out from a lot of different people. and it's not actually coherent or clear about who is going to emerge as the winning faction. jared, i believe, remains, based on my reporting. he took a trip. we know he's starting this think tank of sorts inside the white house. he still has the president's ear. he is not an ideaolog. this nationalism, different kind of approach, can it sustain itself for the rest of the year? trump, i'm told, has identified

with bannon, really believes he can be helpful in shaking up washington. this was not crippling, perhaps, but very devastating defeat for many people inside. >> you look, mika, what steve bannon brought the president of the united states, executive order that was an absolute nightmare. >> and failed. >> and failed and it's been overturned in the courts. that's one thing steve bannon has brought him. he has brought him bad headlines. >> everywhere you turn. is there one good headline about steve bannon anywhere? except in breitbart. >> "time" magazine calls him president bannon. >> that's true, that's very complimenta complimentary. >> then threatening representatives who, by the way, were elected by the people in their own district. at the end of the day, it's the breakdown, the gary cohn faction

versus the bannon faction. >> and where do you put priebus in that equation? >> out. >> outside of that fight. >> but do you think he's in or out? in theory, he should have been running a lot of what was going on. >> everyone is out to get him. >> and where is pence? >> the long knives have been out for reince for weeks now. like a lot of factions are going after priebus. >> it will be the wrong person. >> not exactly sure why. >> speaking of jared -- >> they should be going after bannon. >> -- a new white house office that will attempt to fulfill key campaign promises and overhaul the federal bureaucracy. the white house office of american innovation is, quote, designed to infuse fresh thinking into washington. the office will report directly to the president and be staffed by former business executives. kushner told "the post" we should have excellence in government and the government

should be run like a great american company. our hope is that we can achieve successes and efficiencies for our customers, who are the citizens. among those involved in the effort are the national economic council gary cohn and deputy national security adviser dena pell. >> pretty powerful team right there. >> i did find it interesting -- >> bannon will not have a role. >> jared kushner doing an interview sunday afternoon from his west wing office almost as an attempt to be like, hey, jared is doing something. he's not just in aspen all week during this huge meltdown with the health care bill. >> i took it to be to try to get positive news after a terrible, terrible week. i would also say many administrations do some version of this reinventing government under al gore, whatever. so far, they have amounted to very little. maybe this will be the exception. we'll see. >> walter, we have seen this time and time again.

this is something that jared has been interested in and has actually talked about even before -- >> the computer systems and -- >> even before he came in. >> state department, d.o.d. >> he said to us probably 60 days ago the same thing that the last secretary of defense told us. it was maddening that there are computers in the pentagon from the 1980s and 1990s. and he wants to do the same thing that he did as far as, you know, i guess his brother is really high up in silicon valley. >> uh-huh. >> during the campaign and bring that to washington. but a lot of people have tried to do this and it's frustrated a lot of past administrations to upgrade washington. >> yeah, it has. i think jared kushner might be able to do it well. he has dena powell, gary cohn working with him. it truly needs to be done. when you watch the government

operate, it is operating on 1.0 operating systems all the time. if anybody could do it, it would be this administration, because they are kind of not afraid to break a whole lot of china in doing so. if you focused on stuff like that and american infrastructure and had a populist message of building up america, making it great and tried to govern in that way with some democrats, you would transform history in a bit. you would have somebody who was truly a populist independent. >> so, walter, do you see -- it sounds like you may see last week, as a new opportunity for trump. >> absolutely. >> to turn the page on a disastrous 60 days and move in the direction you're talking about. >> absolutely. there's a great chance to turn the page. i was always surprised that when he came into office, here is a guy who is not exactly a long-time republican. certainly not a member of the

right wing of the republican party. here is somebody who truly has redefined what politics is about. i was surprised he decided to hock his entire presidency to the support of the freedom caucus. made no sense. made no sense to start with health care in my opinion. you start with something like infrastructure that goes right to the core of what your campaign promises were and not getting you in the warfare of the republican party that's not really your party. >> walter, thank you. bob costa, did the -- >> thank you. >> -- president say anything about starting with health care being a mistake? >> i asked him that. he said he did not regret starting with health care or blame speaker ryan. it was intriguing, as walter said, when he talked about working with democrats after obamacare stumbles, in his view, that it may, quote, explode and he could come to the table with

democrats. health care is shelved for now, it seems, based on my interview. >> that's the problem, right, that trump has always exhibited a failure to acknowledge his own failures. and if he doesn't see, starting with health care as a problem, how is he going to then learn -- how is he going to apply the lessons he should have taken away from this experience to have success in the future? >> he did say he learned a lot. >> he did say he learned a lot. he never admits he's wrong. >> that's my point. >> but i will tell you even he goes, it's perfect, it's perfect. i slammed the phone down. he slammed the phone down. and i learned hours later, a

couple of hours before that, he was yelling at his staff, saying what a disaster the executive order had been. he will never admit it publicly. mika, afterwards, i thought he was very measured. >> very good. >> i was surprised and said we learned a lot of lessons here, which is what you want to hear. >> wait a minute. i agree with all of that. but let go back to first principle. he was elected by a group of people who have gotten a short end of the stick economically in this country for a long time and he has got to do stuff to help them. >> yes, he does. >> doing executive orders, reorganizing government, making the phones in the defense department work better ain't gonna do it. he has to pass serious legislation. >> taking health care away from people isn't going to do it either. >> he has to come up with serious legislation that helps him and then get it passed. >> tax reform, which may not directly help working class people, but the right type of

tax reform can help bring a lot of money back into this country for investment and infrastructure plan that he can sit and smile with democrats at the signing ceremony along with republicans. how about that? >> robert costa, thank you. >> my tweet. tax reform, reg reform, gorsuch in 2017. health care, infrastructure and education reform in 2018. see how easy it is? >> yeah. still ahead, congressman jim jordan and ted poe join us. they were both members of the freedom caucus. poe has ended his alliance, citing a crisis of conscious. and later senator chris coons wants to avoid the nuclear option when it comes to supreme

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he hits the bulls eye in that tweet like he often does. we can't be chasing the perfect all the time. sometimes you have to take the good and put it in your pocket and take the win. he wants to make sure that people don't get left behind. you want to make sure that there's competition in the marketplace so that rates are lower and people can choose their doctor. so if those three things are incompatible with some members of the republican house, then it's going to be incompatible and we need to work with moderate democrats to make sure that that happens. i think it's more or less a warning shot that we are willing to talk to anyone. we always have been. >> just for the record, i think a lot of the tweets have been disastrous and some of the -- many have been false. i think when you start something out in full suck-up mode, saying that he hits the bull'seye with

his tweets like he always does -- the group around the president has got to stop that. joining us now, member of the oversight and government reform committee, representative jim jordan of ohio, founding member of the house freedom caucus and served as its first chairman. welcome back to the show, sir. >> good to be with you. >> let's look ahead first before we look back houchlt does tax reform look, given everything you've witnessed in the past week? >> a lot of things need to get done. the mistake on this past bill is that we didn't do what the american people sent us here to do. it wasn't full repeal. when it comes to the bills we talked about accomplishing, let's do what we said f we don't, i think we may have the same problem weiss had on this last bill, unfortunately. >> were you -- was the white

house very forceful in its hope that you all would support the bill or how would you describe how the white houseworked with you? >> good conversations. we know a number of people, dr. price, mick mulvaney, vice president pence. the president was good as well. but in the end it was about the legislation. >> right. >> the lesson here is don't try to pass a bill that only 17% of the country approves of. that's a problem. >> right. >> mr. preeb business was talking about don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. this wasn't even good. when no one likes the legislation, you have to do it different. that's what we were saying t wasn't going to bring down premium premiums, had a host of problems. the key promise we made the american people in 2001 -- 2010, 2014, 2016 was that we would repeal obamacare. let's get back to work and do what we said we would do. >> mark mckinnon? >> congressman, you all did an

amazing job of holding together under a lot of pressure from the president and others. were you unanimous in the caucus about a bill you all agreed on? >> yes. we introduced the clean repeal, the very thing we voted on 15 months ago. that's where we thought the process would start. six, seven weeks ago, we thought that would be the first thing we introduced, the very thing we all voted for that we put on president obama's desk. then a separate piece of legislation, replacement, sponsored by congressman sanford on the house side. that's the plan, that's the plan consistent with what we told the american people. that's what we thought we would do, or something like that. instead we get a mishmash of a bill hid anne way, no amendments allowed to be offered, binary choice, take it or leave it that only 17% of the country likes. that's the problem. >> congressman, steve ratner. that may well be.

i think there are a couple of other factors to bear in mind. one, your bill would have required 60 votes in the senate to pass, not 50 votes in the senate. it couldn't have been done under reconciliation. >> not the clean repeal. not the first part. >> it could not have been done that way, correct? >> the clean repeal could have been done. the repeal obamacare could have been done, same thing we passed 15 months ago and put on president obama's desk. that could have been done through reconciliation. the leadership's plans with a three-step process. it had three phases to it. if they were able to get phase two and phase three, why couldn't we get our second part, that will require the democrats to do the right thing? in fact, democrats might -- >> you weren't going to get the -- the heart of my question is this. which is, so you failed. you ended up with obamacare 1.0 still being the law of the land. why was not the bill that the house leadership and the president proposed, which would have made a number of changes

and many changes in your direction gotten to maybe obama -- call it obama 2.0 if you want. why was that not better than 1.0, which is what you're stuck with for the foreseeable future? >> 17% of the country didn't like it. it didn't repeal obamacare. even krauthammar called it obamacare lite. he was actually for it. we were trying to work and get there, even though it was a bad bill. if we would have at least brought down premiums for middle-class families. faechls were going to toin rise 3 1/2 years. >> and then start to go down. >> relative to the baseline, not in real dollars and significant dollars. so, that was the problem. when you have legislation that doesn't -- not to mention the new entitlement that is advanced refundable tax credits for people with no tax reliability, medicare expansion, a host of things that work weren't in our

clean repeal 17 months ago. >> why did the house relationship and why did trump try to rewrite the laws that cover one-fifth of america's economy in 17 days? >> yeah. that -- >> newt gingrich didn't even try to do that. >> that's a fundamental question. there were political problems, policy problems and process problems and typically good process will lead to better policy which leads to better politics. >> i just don't understand it. they're telling conservative republicans, we're going to alter one-fifth of the economy, and we're changing it while you sleep and you have to vote on a bill where you don't even get the cbo score. >> you saw it. they rolled it out. they said it's a binary choice. take it or leave it. normally you have hearings on a piece of legislation that impacts this much of our overall

economy, you would bring in some witnesses and hear from witnesses about what's going to happen if this legislation becomes law. we had none of that. we went straight to mark-up. no amendments could be offered in the ways & means committee, budget committee. they took a manager's amendment at the last hour to try to get people to vote for it. >> anybody threaten you guys? in the good old days gingrich's people would always threaten us and we would laugh at them. did anybody threaten you? >> no. that didn't happen. >> just so we can have a big laugh. because threats, as obviously some people in the white house don't understand, threats always backfire. >> i don't think there's any room for that. let's just do the right thing. i said on your show before, we make this too complicated. what did we tell the american people we would do? repeal it and replace it. why not start with the legislation we all voted for, they all voted for and put it on

the president's desk. >> jim jordan, on behalf america, we thank you. whether you support the freedom caucus, don't support the freedom caucus, they did a great, great thing for america. >> how a bill doesn't become law. >> by the way -- >> all of us democrats should become contributors of the freedom caucus. we owe them a lot. >> i don't like to do this very often. >> oh, no. are you going to talk about yourself? >> no. i was going to talk about when i was in congress. >> about yourself in congress. >> the mark sanford story? >> i like that story. no, this is good. >> mark sanford and i had killed a bill and gingrich's people called us in. they were running around, screaming. they said they were going to strip out all the money from my military bases and everything else. they're screaming and mark sanford just starts laughing at the most inappropriate moment. and like everybody is staring at him like your political career

is being threatened. why are you laughing? and he turns to me and says are they threatening me? are they threatening us joe? he said that's what i thought and he was dying laughing and walked right past the guys and we all sort of filed in. threatening members never works. >> mark sanford was so impressive, really thoughtful. and he had these white boards and position papers. you could tell this was not just some political thing. guys like sanford were really serious and really deep in the policy. still ahead, regrets? he has had a few. we'll hear from joe biden, taking stock of the state of politics and doesn't like what he sees. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. knowing where you stand has never been easier.

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the losers are nancy pelosi and chuck schumer because now they own obamacare. they absolutely own it. this is not our bill. this is their bill.

>> we democrats provided our republican colleagues drop/replace and stop undermining the aca, are willing to work with our republican friends as long as they say no more repeal. that's a loser. we'll work with them. we have ideas, they have ideas to try to improve obamacare. we never said it was perfect. we always said we would work with them to improve it. we just said repeal is off the table. >> i think, and i want the president to hear me say this. we're ready to talk about how we can make some improvements in the affordable care act. when we did the affordable care act, it was something that took 100 years to do. was it perfect? no. would i have prefer aid single payer? yes. >> mika, what chuck schumer just said, what nancy pelosi just said, so positive. >> i know. >> nancy pelosi has been known as being this tough, san francisco liberal. but from the moment that she --

you know, on inaugural day when we had her on our show in washington, right there, this is a nancy pelosi who keeps saying we're here. >> we'll work with you. >> we'll work with you. >> and they know the bill has to be improved. they know it needs to get fixed. >> this is not new. >> what needs to be done in the bill to fix it is even more antithetical to what the republicans want. >> but not to donald trump. >> maybe the democrats don't get what they want. maybe the republicans don't get what they want and maybe that's the way it's supposed to work. mediation as a lawyer, when you had a great mediation, when both sides left pissed off. that's a good mediation. >> the white house says it may work with democrats on new items on their agenda, like tax reform. where would those negotiations even begin? >> look at that funky wording. look at that.

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i don't regret not running, in the sense that it was the right decision for my boy, for me, for my family at the time. but do i regret not being president? yes. and i know that sounds -- i know what it sounds like, but no man or woman announces for president of the united states unless they honestly believe from their experience they're the best qualified person to do that. and at the time i thought that the circumstances were such that i was the best qualified. not every year would you be the best qualified. but the things i've spent my whole life doing, american foreign policy, the ability to

bring people together, the respect on both sides of the aisle. i thought there was a need to bring the country together. and i thought i could have done it. >> boy. >> vice president joe biden speaking at colgate university on friday, saying he thought he could have won, had he run for president. >> he had me at a lot of things there. he thought he could have won. he thought he should have won. he thought he should be president right now. lot of regrets for joe biden. >> joining us now democratic senator of chris coons of delaware. >> i would guess, senator you, too, would agree with us that joe biden could have won. >> would have brought people together. i think joe biden could have spoken to the middle class anxiety that drove a lot of the primaries in both parties and i think he would be a terrific president. so i share that regret. one of the ways that i think joe

will make an enormous difference in our country is fighting cancer, as we've been talking about. it's a scourge that affects so many families. there's a lot of things left to be done in the days of the lame duck, we passed legislation after beau biden who passed too quickly. >> first of all, gorsuch, i'm disappointed in a lot of what i'm hearing. i know gorsuch, obviously, follows garland, republicans acted in an abhorrent manner but is that a reason for us not to give gorsuch a fair look? >> gorsuch got what garland didn't, a fair look. i questioned him some would say aggressively. in terms of his education,

service on the court but he would be, by some measures, the most conservative justice on the supreme court. >> so should he deserve an up or down vote in the senate? >> he will get anvote. senator schumer, minority leader said it's going to be a 60 vote margin. i doubt he's going to get 60 votes. the question then becomes what do we do? there's a lot of finger points. a lot of democrats justifiably mad about the treatment of americans. >> obviously, but do you not think we're going to get to 60 votes. >> i don't think he's going to get 60 votes. >> for closure. >> all right. then the republicans are going to pass it using so-called nuclear. >> almost certainly. i think this is tragic. in talking to friends on both sides of the aisle. we've got a lot of senators concerned about where we're headed. there's republicans still very mad at us over the 2013 change. the filibuster rule. we're mad at them for shutting down the government. >> steve, you have chart that

you says shows why tax reform might be a little more difficult to get passed. >> there's a lot of things to be said about tax reform. one piece of it relates to difference in situation today from where president bush was in 2001 when he passed this tax reform. remember that bush came in basically with surpluses left over from clinton, 281 billion in the first year. looking at surpluses ov. we can reduce taxes. what trump is facing is a deficit of 559 billion in the current fiscal year growing to 959 billion five years from now. and he is now talking about reducie ining taxes. there's obviously a very strong deficit wing of the republican party. many democrats who are fiscally responsible basically says lets not increase the deficit. this is one of the many issues

the tax reform is going to face. people who say tax reforms are going to be easier than health care are incorrect. i think it's going to be very hard. >> i think tax reforeman is goi is going to be very hard. there is less trust between the parties than there's ever been. >> even in the senate. >> even in the senate. we're structured in a different way. rereprese we represent entire states. we're going to have to work very hard to pull back together after the fights of the last couple of years. this is one of the areas we should be able to do it. as you point out, there's a lot of reasons why it's going to be extremely difficult. it hasn't happened since 1986 for a good reason. >> senator, for all of the democrats complaints over the last several years about the constant obstruction by republicans, it seems there is now a significant chunk of your

caucus that wants to do the same thing. they want to obstruct at almost any cost, at the cost of getting anything done even. it may have bipartisan consensus. at the cost of commonality in the senate. talk to me about the dangers of doing that. behaving the same way they accused republicans of behaving. >> we are different. we want government to work. you heard senator schumer saying, i would agree, if they'll put repeal off the table and sit down and talk about repairing and improving the affordable care act, a lot of democrats eager to work on that. 15 of us sent a letter to majority leader mitch mcconnell back in january saying we're ready to work together to find ways to improve the affordable health care to improve access, quality, affordability. i introduced bills in last congress to expand tax credits for small business. we recognize it isn't perfect. wasn't written by gods.

it was written by people. we took a long time to write it. >> what about on taxes though. let's say that trump talks to schumer, talks to pelosi, talks to you, talks to other democrats and comes up with a tax reform package that reduces corporate tax rates and that provides tax relief to small business owners. isn't that something that could unite both parties. >> yes. if we have a move towards tax reform that could strengthen manufacturing, strengthen exports. there's a menu for us to start talking about, but tax reform generally is very difficult. if you want to border adjustment tax, everybody who is importing component parts is upset. everybody exporting is happy. you get very different sectors engaged and supportive or opposing depending what the piece es are of the plan. there's a lot of work first we have to do to restore trust. >> steve, final thought.

>> the plan that you outline, joe, is a very good plan, just doesn't bear in resemblance to what the republicans or donald trump is advocating. we need a huge movement to get this. >> like the health care plan, it is tax reform plan need to throw it away and come up was a bipartisan plan that appeals to trump's voters. right. that shouldn't be that hard. >> would be a start. senator, thank you very much. thank you. >> good to see you. thank you so much. still ahead before moving on to tax reform. republicans need to figure out where they went wrong on health care. some say they need to. we'll talk to republican congressman tom haul who says don't blame the president of speaker ryan, but the lawmakers who failed to get behind them. plus former white house secretary. josh earnest joins the conversation. morning joe is back in just a moment. ♪

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moderates. >> incumbent upon those two groips to come together in the coming days. >> president tweeted this, democrats are smiling in d.c. that the freedom caucus with the help for growth and heritage have saved planned parenthood and o care. >> welcome back to morning joe. march 27, 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. >> good to have you back. how was the south of france? >> it was not the south of france. >> did not do that. never have. except for once when i was kidnapped. >> with this said, former adviser to prosecute bush. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters with us. former treasury official. analyst steve radar in. nothing happened. maybe you want to explain it all

doesn't matter why that bill failed. that bill needed to fail. >> bad bill. >> horrific bill. they didn't explain it. if they had passed it. everybody would have said they lost 24. they took 24 million people off insurance roles instead of explaining some of those people would have chosen not to get insurance. me never splaexplained anything they should be kicking themselves for actually listening to the house. and not doing what they thought they should have done. >> the republicans criticize democrats forever for jamming it through in the dead of night and for not taking long nufr. they took years to get it through. and they did exactly the same thing. jammed it through in the middle of the night. >> they tried to do it in 17 days. >> 17 days. then they quit in 17 days. >> wave the white flag.

>> who ever heard of a major piece of legislation passing in 17 days. >> how do you change one fifth of the economy in 17 days? it's like this is the gang that couldn't shoot straight. i do want to say one thing. we've all been very concerned about the white house. concerned about steve bannon saying he's going to tear down the government. the challenges to the courts, questioning the courts. calling the press enemy of the people. i think we should 60 or so days in just stop and go wait, hold on a second. let's see how mr. hamilton and mr. madison's government is doing. president's first executive order, court shut it down. president's first health care package, first significant package, congress shut it down. every step he takes, every move he makes, every tweet he breaks, the press is there every second hounding him.

the first amendment is live and well. >> checking and balancing. >> the first amendment is live and well. hamilton and madison's constitution is alive and well. we can for now, just for now, take to our origins or total narism and put it in a drawer. maybe wait to open it later, but right now, the system is working. >> the very people he's calling fake news, he's calling on the telephone and trying to tell the story and promoting and probably c colluding with because i know how you promote a show on fox and find that show to be completely supportive of you. >> what a coincidence. >> such an unbelievable coincidence. fake news, interesting. >> fake news is the news you make. >> let's talk about something we both found very interesting. his initial spots to the defeat. that was a donald trump.

the few people -- you actually used the word gracious. >> will, everybody was very snarky after covering his -- at the white house talking about the failure of the bill. i actually thought for the first time he was incredibly gracious and took responsibility -- in that moment, he took responsibility. it was if you look at that alone and i've asked some young students i was talking to look at that alone. that alone is a very good moment for him. >> let us hope it shows he does understand now despite the fact he has acts around him like steve bannon. and i will call steve bannon an act. you go in and threaten members, you're not only a hack, you're stupid at your game. go back to running your website. i warned him about all this. i warned from the very beginning. don't do health care. don't threaten members. because i can't tell you what happened when presidents threatened me. i can't tell you my response to

them, but i know this i had it right here and i kept it right here. it was on my hard drive. i if somebody tells me what i have to do and i've been elected by 700,000 people, every chance i get to kick their teeth in the ledge l legislative process, i'm going to kick their teeth in. this is politics o101. bonn nonfailed miserablyannon f if you're an opponent of trump, that's the only thing you have. they're so dysfunctional. to your point, trump was elected without a congressional win of his party. right. this is a problem with not just being an outsider, but a problem

with being somebody who doesn't really show much care or interest in the details of governing. rights? he has no constituency. >> here's the thing. and maybe we'll see this moving forward with tax cuts. what was so stupid about adopting paul ryan's right wing chopped up not pure enough, not kind enough health care package was. it was like a frankenstein health care package. he abandon his base. like trump spent -- trump does have a base. mainstream republicans. moderate republicans, and it's moderate democrats. he could pass any bill he wanted to pass by picking up 30 or 40 democrats. you think if he puts a good health -- steve radner wants health reform.

>> just like george w. bush. >> the plan that would help the very people you're talking about, the people who voted for him, working class whites, it's called obamacare. that plan -- >> steve. steve obamacare is not built to last. we all know. >> obamacare could be fixed quite easily. >> democrats want to fix it. that's the point. they could have gone to democrats. so they'll get health care reform done next year, probably. he will be working with chuck schumer as well as mitch mcconnell. here's the lesson. i'm sorry. i love all my friends in the house, but don't go to house leadership to get stuff done. go to mitch mcconnell. and go to chuck schumer. and sit down and say, what can you boys pass in the senate. >> it's going to end up there. if they had passed this bill, for every one store that dropped the heart of the deal, there would have been 100 saying it's

dead on arrival in the senate. every senator would have said it's too harsh or moderate. this is the best. start where you're going to end. go to mitch. go to schumer. >> turn into art of wards. >> as a technical matter. you know tax legislation has to start in the house. that's the way it works. >> right. if you read the constitutional, spending bill everything starts in the house. just doesn't work that way. didn't when i was there. still not going to work that way. >> let's get to some elements. the president saying of course on the failure of all of this that next time it should include some democrats in the process. take a look. >> i think we could have things i would have liked more. if we had bipartisan, i think we could have a health care bill that would be the ultimate. i think the democrats know that also. some day in the not too distant future, that will happen. i really believe there will be some democratic support and it will happen and it will be an even better bill. >> i'll tell you what's going to come out of it.

a better bill. i really believe a better bill. there were things in this particular bill i didn't like. i think it's a better bill. you know, both parties can get together and do real health care. that's the best thing. obamacare was rammed down everyone's throat. 100 percent democrat. i think having bipartisan would be a big big improvement. >> this health care plan was rammed down everybody's throat in shorter order. >> you know, here's the thing. it's interesting you said the democrats wouldn't work with them. you make a bill they have to vote yes on. i remember during contract with america. oh, it's a contract on america. the republicans -- we drew up legislation that was 80/20 legislation. something like 70% of the house voted on all of that stuff. >> what would a health care bill look like that you think the democrats would have to vote for. >> i'm not talking about health careless bill. you move on to tax reform right

now and you work with chuck schumer to represent a lot of really rich people in wall street and also work with democrats from moderate states that are going to want to work with you. they can get 70 votes on a tax reform bill that started with which c chuck schumer and started with mitch mcconnell. if you start with paul ryan, and you start with the aei wing of the republican party, you ain't passing it through the senate. >> i agree with that. the tax bill that chuck schumer would sign on for would look nothing like the tax bill paul ryan has proposed. knock like the tax bill that trump as proposed. >> exactly. here's the news. i love paul ryan. i'm a conservative. it ain't passing the senate. those aren't the people who got donald trump elected in wisconsin, michigan, ohio, it's not like we haven't been saying that every day on this show for 62 days. you don't start with paul ryan

and heritage action and the freedom caucus and everybody else. by the way, guess what, a lot of them aren't going to vote for it. that's okay. you got 40 democrats voting for it. they're going to want corporate tax rates lowered. they're going to want to be competitive with the rest of the world. so the freedom caucus, i know this because i was in something like the freedom caucus. don't know. >> this is what you do. you know what they said. we fought. we shut them down. finally they go like this. okay. we can vote now. we'll get 40 democrats and we just sat there and we sat there going, oh, okay. all right. that's what you do. if you're not going to vote for this, we're going to get the democrats. we don't really care either way. we're passing bills. >> this democratic party is not going to go along with much of anything. they want to cut -- they want to raise rates for the highest earners. right. they're not going to go along

with a rate that cbill that cut rates for them. >> running next year. votes against lowering the corporate tax rate to be competitive with the rest of the world. she will lose her election. she will lose business. if jeff mansion in west virginia decides that he's going to vote against common sense tax reform that helps businesses in west virginia. he with lose. they will. still ahead on morning joe. talk about the early strain of the president's relationship with the speaker of the house. plus, talk to republican congressman tom cole about whether the president can create a coalition in his own party. congressman joins us as well after steps aside from the freedom caucus. he said saying no is easy. leaving the hard. that's what we're elected to do. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪

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. friday whhere is ryan on friday. on the growing pains the republican party is going through. >> moving from opposition party to a governing party coming with growing pains. well, we're feeling the growing pains today. we came really close today. we came up short. doing big things is hard. all of us. all of us. myself included. we will need time to reflect on how we got to this moment. what we could have done to do it better. ultimately, this all comes down to a choice. are all of us willing to give a little to get something done. are we willing to say yes even though it's not perfect. >> he was there because they tried to fix the economy in 17

days. the president was good too. "new york times" report cast doubt on the relationship between the white house and the speaker's office. quote, several trump allies have suggested that mr. ryan has still failed to grasp fully the lessons of the president's election and rejection of traditional political dogma. # i thought he was going to be on it. when viewers tuned in. this is what the host said. >> paul ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house. americans legislated the one man they believed could do it. a complete outsider. someone beholding to no one, but them.

and speaker ryan, you come in with all your swagger and experience and you sell them a bill of goods which ends up a complete and total failure. you allow our president in his first 100 days to come out of the box like that? based on what? >> so you watch every saturday night. >> i do. i do. >> you're live tweeting it like it was the bachelor. >> i put on my passengjamas andh th that. >> it's a joke. >> i'm still stuck on that. >> that was a lot. >> that was a lot. >> that was a lot going on there. >> if they think that it's bad with paul ryan running the place. try to replace paul ryan. that's not the answer.

the answer is the legislative saying. paul ryan is the best choice. >> and he's great at what he does. he's -- by the way, it's interesting. see the democrats as fashionable party. seeing how the democrats are factionable now. >> what about the president's pleading saying watch then this woman screaming paul ryan should step down. i'm sorry i'm stuck on that. that's crazy. this is crazy. >> paul ryan's position is not saying this is where we take washington. paul ryan's job is like i said, you got the president talking to the senate and going to paul ryan, paul, what do you need. what can you get through your house. and if we need to get -- how many republicans are you going to lose. we're going to get those democrats. >> that's the whole problem with this deconstruction of the administrative state. tear down and destroy washington. okay. what comes next. >> why don't we just say steve

bannon. steve bannon doesn't know how washington works. the tweet not only the weekend, but perhaps of the 21st century was he said all members must bow down to me. i am steve bannon. i have been in politics since august 2016. i used to run a website. >> that's where we are. he blew this. the president doesn't have anybody on the inside that can come to the hill and do just what we were talking about. >> what to you need. >> is looking. i heard plenty of theories from bannon over the years. and it's clear that institutions are failing us and need to be torn down and rebuilt. however what i have not heard is what comes next. very good at destruction part. not good at rebuilding part. >> here's the problem. you can't tear down washington if you don't have somebody that knows how washington works.

we are a nation of laws. not a nation of website builders. of dudes who don't shave or brush their hair and say their lennon. if you want to beat washington, you have to have somebody who knows how washington works. coming up on morning joe. running fringe news outlet to helping run the white house. we'll talk about steven bannon's role in the health care negotiations and whether it made the white house's case any harder in getting a deal. we're back after this. i know, we need to talk about this. it's time. it is a big decision for us...

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we want a very big tax cut, but cannot do that until we keep our promise to repeal and replace the disaster known as obamacare. >> so we got to get this done before we can do the other. in other words. we have to know what this is been we can do the big tax cuts. we got to get it done for a lot of reasons, but that's one of them. >> by the way, we had to go. had no choice. had to go with the health care first. you know how it works.

one room that really does now how it works. we had to go with the health care first and we're doing well. i think we're going to have great surprises. i hope it's going to all work out. then we immediately start on tax cuts. and they're going to be really fantastic. i am looking forward to that one. that one is going to be fun. that one is going to be fun. called the wheel house. we could have done earlier and this would have worked out better if we had some democrat support. we had no democrat support. we're going to go for tax form which i've always liked. >> there was a point where george w. bush was in trouble. about like this. got rid of chief of staff. brought in somebody else. mass firings that made a really big difference. i hate to say this, but it is obvious that steve bannon is not up to the task.

it's obvious that he needs people around him that actually know how to abide by the white house. >> that's why the language is interesting. you get a sense that he's really seeing it's a teachable moment. the question is is it and what kind of changes do you make. you've got to send a message in perception and reality that you heard the message. that you're going to do things differently and show signs you actually are. >> trump over the course of campaign and presidency so far has not really shown a capacity to learn from mistakes and correct them. if he dpuz, that would be a huge change. that's why there's a lot of pessimism. >> you get a second chance. they give you a second chance. everybody does. if he gets rid of a lot of people around him that were, you know, that let him walk over this cliff, let the president down. i haven't seen that yet. now, they put the gun in freedom

caucus's hand. >> when we return, joined by republican congressman. tom cole. health care didn't go well for the president and his party in congress. will tax be smoother. white house secretary josh earnest joins us live. morning joe is back after this.

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how about bring it all. if i whin, fine. if i don't fine. here's what you're going get from me. somebody who tells you exactly what i believe in. it's okay to be mad. it's okay to be upset. washington is broken. >> lawmakers face more ruckus town halls across the country. senator lindsey graham yielding

tough questions. >> he can handle himself. >> he can do it. former press secretary to president obama now an msnbc political news analyst. welcome aboard. >> thank you. good morning. happy monday. >> happy monday. good to have you on board as part of the family. also joining us on capitol hill, republican congressman, tom cole of oklahoma. >> tom, how are you doing this morning. >> just living the dream. >> living the dream. will rogers behind you. let me ask you, tom. whose fault was it with the republicans stumbled on friday. >> frankly i don't think you do much after something like this by pointing fingers. better to learn lessons. and i think there's a lot of lessons to learn here. one of the first ones is probably not a good idea to try to run the house by senate rules. reconciliation is a senate device. doesn't work very well over here. second less son to me is that probably you know we ought to

move really through regular order. that means all the hearings. all the things it takes and that actually leaves democrats in play. once you do reconciliation. once you do that, you basically limit yourself to the players inside your own office. find a bigger caucus. actually done this a long time. washington, d.c. works. got into somebody's mind. that they could reorder one fifth of the economy in 17 days. >> we had been working on this for a long time. look, there's a lot of common items there, but at the end of the day, the effort to bring all the different factions together, on wednesday or thursday, still had momentum. wednesday actually. once we kept bargaining to the right, we literally started losing people on the left.

can't push an instrument beyond what's it's capable of doing. in this case, we're capable of being a terrific opposition party, but we're still learning as the speaker said how to be a governing party. we're not there yet. >> what number one lesson there in learning thousand be a governoring party. >> well, the first lesson is humility is the beginning of wisdom. >> understanding, yes, exactly. we have to focus on things we have to do. we haven't finished 17 pro creations bill. halfway through 17 -- the 18 fiscal year. have to get that done. we have to think about things like getting a realistic budget done. doing a debt ceiling vote. will have to be bipartisan. and start on tax reform. start with real hearings and start in a way that everybody at least at the outset is a potential player. >> josh, president obama's effort to reform health care

took what, a year and a half. >> it never ended. >> seemed longer than that. >> i remember coming on this show and we would look at each going oh, my gosh are we going to have to talk about health care reform again. yes, you do. it's tough. george w. bush said, it's hard. they did it in spite of tv politics. the politics were terrible. any time you're reordering a fifth or sixth of the academy, that is going to create friction and opposition. and, you know, we were talking a little bit before we came on how i actually vividly remember the day in may of 2007. it was the day after memorial day. when then senator barack obama new presidential candidate actually went to the university of iowa hospital system and rolled out a detailed boring health care reform proposal.

he spent a year and a half over the context of the presidential campaign making the case all across the country about why his proposal to reform the health care system would be good for the economy and working people. there has to be a predicate laid. there has to be a foundation laid. getting people to support something. republicaning never did that i about repealing obamacare, but never made any sort of substantive effort to talk about how they were going to replace it. >> there was never any public input. no rallies with doctors and nurses or anybody that was in the system. >> frankly all you saw was town halls of people going am i going to lose my health care? it started in a negative way. seemed dead on arrival. >> let's bring tom cole. are those fair criteriques. >> i think they're legitimate points to make. the situation has been frozen since obamacare passed. not like democrats fixed it or there's been in substantive proposals from the other side to do it.

the president has a point. i think paul ryan does. i think this thing in my state it is collapsing, we're down to single insurer and rates go up 69% next year. to me that's not success. >> definitely needs to be fixed. big picture and so many things we want to ask you, josh, how important and how much impact to advisers around the president have in a process lining this and overall. >> i think when you have a president like the current one that isn't too focus kd on the details, i think even his supporters would say they about him, that the influence of your advisers lose even larger and has even more influence on somebody who is when it comes to health care policy and the details, pretty much a blank slate. i think the other thing you're relying on advisers to do is provide intelligence. clearly an intelligence break down inside the white house in terms of understanding what is it that moderate republicans would support. what is it that conservative republicans would support. is there a comprehensive strategy that even considers

whether democrats want to play a constructive role in this. >> everybody has been talking about freedom caucus, freedom caucus, more moderate study. if they had made it more conservative, they would have lost more moderate and mainstream republicans. it was always, it was always the choice. always robbing peter to pay paul. it was doomd. >> my question for congressman cole. ed. >> my question for congressman cole. sgll i think they have a point saying don't call us. we got to, yes, 50 times. 50 times when we voted to repeal obamacare. so that means it would seem that bill was just the sham, doesn't it. >> no, i think it wasn't. i think they have a plan. i think it's a fair point. if you just wants to repeal, the president wanted to repeal and replace. and we would have had to move

into replacement mode. any repeal would have frankly taken a long time. a long transition. you have to write the legislation and quite frankly the legislation to pass would have had to have been bipartisan. you can make that point, but the idea we would get to exactly where the freedom caucus wanted to go, that wasn't a very likely outcome. in the end you have to be constructive. what i regret honestly is we didn't vote. i think you're paid to vote around here. we ought to put the votes on the board and let everybody see where they're at. >> josh, you just handed sean spicer the keys to the gates of hell. what's your advice to others. how do you get off the map. >> i think congressman cole had a good point. you have to accept reality. you have to take a cold hard look where you fell short and try to opine those lessons to future opportunities. they have to get moving to the

next thing, whatever that is. >> important to turn the page. >> can't forget what happened. because there is a -- there's important lessons there. particularly when you consider this is the first big, you know, effort that they undertook to try to get something through congress. listen, there are some things that are coming up that they can't afford to pass by. they have to pass the bill to keep the government open. some point before the end of the year. >> that's a good point. that's the next thing. >> that is the next thing. it is not clear what the path is from here. again, i would be interested to -- i would be interested to be a fly on the wall for the conversation that congressman cole and other responsible members of republican party and congress are going have with democrats as they try to purr sw persuade democrats. >> i agree with josh earnest more as an commentator. >> i'm confused. what did you think when sean

spicer did that first press conference? i want to know what was going through your head. >> he doesn't really want to say and tom cole doesn't want to say. i got a feeling that he was thinking the same thing that tom cole was thinking that i was thinking which is will you kidding me? let's talk about things that matter. >> we could talk about things that matter and it is difficult to put yourself in a position where you're saying something so easily. >> pictures and photographs. >> if any of this could have been an argument. >> what has the president said to you i need you to go out and do that. >> first of all, i wonts wouldnk for a president that would ask me to do that. >> what if you did. >> i think what i would do is spend a lot of time making the case to the president why we don't want to pick this fight. say something so easily const e

construed and to do so so blatantly undermine something you're going to be relying on to make a case for you. that has impaired their ability to advance their agenda. >> congressman cole, can i ask you a question. it's sort of a personal point of personal privilege here. this morning one of her friends fighting for her life against cancer. we had senator coons on who fathers would watch the show and call all the time. very tough to watch the set and not tear up. my mother and millions of americans like her have been fighting dementia, my son has been fights diabetes since he was a young age. these have impact obviously on a budget that is 50% dependent on

basically health care insurance. i look at the cuts to the national institute of health as pure insanity and i think most americans agree with me. we have this slashes funding for research. >> not only that. counter to what we've been doing. two years ago we had the largest increase in funding at the nih in a dozen years. if we pass the 2017 budget, which we should do. we'll have a comparable increase under republican house and senate. so it is going in my view at the nih and cnc in wrong direction. we have to sit down and do this without increasing spending. you have to make tough decisions elsewhere in the budget which we did in 2016 and prepared to do again for the '17 pujbudget and should do it for '18. millions of americans going

through what she is going through right now. lose more people to cancer every year than we lost in the civil war. national priority. something republicans and democrats have worked on together and can bring people together going forward. >> do you think most of the republican caucus agrees with you or enough members of the caucus agrees with you. not going to be slashed by the budget proposal. >> we'll see. the president is right in broad priorities. we need to increase spending on defense. need to do it in a responsible way. to do that, you have to open up the entire budget to offsetting cuts. not just nondefense discretionary. you have to look at entitlement. president obama offered two entitlement reforms in 2014. change cpi and means testing for medicare. more than finance the defense increase. ought to look at them. >> all right. congressman tom cole.

thank you very much. >> thank you congressman. always great to see you. >> josh, thank you as well. welcome to msnbc family. >> good to be here. >> already making friends. >> we're bringing people together, right. >> that's what we do. our next guest is tweet accident, quote, voted against the ten commandments. two days later, quit the freedom congress. cressman ted poe talks about his decision next. best tweet of the weekend. best tweet of the 21st century. >> i'm steve bannon. i've been in politics since august of 2016. you will bow before me. elected republican officials, i ran a website. john joins the table. back in a moment. eet your fath. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin

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♪ ♪ sfx: engine revving ♪ (silence) ♪ he hits the bulls eye in that tweet like he often does. we can't be chasing the perfect all the time. sometimes you have to take the good and put it in your pocket and take the win. >> the lesson here is don't try to pass a bill that only 17% of the country approves of. that's a problem. don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. but this wasn't even good. when no one likes the legislation you have to do it different. >> founding member of the house freedom caucus jim jordan speaking with us last hour and joining us from houston now former member of the freedom caucus republican congressman

ted poe of texas. very good to have you on the show this morning. >> congressman, you declared your freedom from the freedom caucus, why. >> the freedom caucus which i'm one of the original members of has always been the opposition, mainly opposition of liberal agenda but now that we are in power, the republicans, it continues to be the opposition party in the republican party. and the whole purpose of the freedom caucus was to be brought to the table all legislation and we were brought to the table. we spent an hour and a half with the president of the united states, the vice president, concessions were made on the bill that the freedom caucus wanted but it could not ever get to the point where the freedom caucus would finally vote yes so it can't be saying no rather than say no, we have to have progress. i have preexisting conditions. i have leukemia. 30% of the country has preexisting conditions.

the health care bill was very important to me and not perfect, but it was a step in the right direction. so now, after the end of the day, after voting 60 times to repeal obamacare when it actually counted to repeal obamacare, they got cold feet and just said no and i think they'll continue to say no on important issues. >> so whose to blame for that? do you blame mark meadows? who do you blame? >> well, i don't really blame any one in particular. but the freedom caucus was brought to the table and refused to work to have a better bill. >> why is that? >> because the freedom caucus did not have the perfect, pure bill that they wanted. if they had that they would've lost other members of the republican party so compromise is something you got to do when you are in power.

we've been ut of power as far as making a difference for years. now we're in power. we got to work together, legislation's tough but at the end of the day we got to work on a bill that's better than what we have and right or wrong, the bill that we had is better than obamacare and i think they should've come on board and said yes, we'll support this and move forward to make that bill even better in the fewer. now we are back exactly where we were years ago. >> all right. congressman ted poe, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> joining us now editor of commentary magazine. >> we're adding to his book of tweets. >> so when you were tweeting, were you inferring that perhaps, just perhaps, steve bannon was just a smidge unmatched? >> where are we in this administration? we have a whole bunch of people who have very little experience in washington from the president on down. >> can we just be honest and say

none. >> steve bannon has none. >> but reince priebus has experience. >> bannon is threatening. >> literally entered politics in august of 2016. >> um-hum. >> so that was what eight months ago. >> they want to shake it up and do it differently. >> which is all well and good. you need to have mastery of the details if you're going to shake something up. you can pull the legs out from under a table or if you know how a table works. >> they want to tip the table. >> you have to put something up under the table when you take the legs out so it doesn't fall over and when bannon went to this meeting with republicans and said, you have to pass this bill, a bunch of elected officials, people who have been going in front of voters for decades, years and decades, they looked at him and said, who the hell are you? and the answer is who he is. he's a guy who was on wall

street and made some money and ran a website. i run a website -- would i know how to get a health care bill -- >> there's not a discussion, there's a debate. this is not a debate. you have no choice but to vote for the bill. and one of the members said, my dad tried that when i was 18 and it didn't work then either. >> what human being talks to another human being that way? >> an idiot. >> donald trump who wasn't even the one who said this got 46% of the vote. he's a minority president. he is not in the strongest position. they're elected officials and steve bannon is a guy who ran a website until august. >> but donald trump is president. >> but he wasn't the one who said you have to vote for this bill. >> i think what actually bannon was saying there is not incompatible with what paul ryan is saying, guys, take it or leave it.

you've got to pass this. it's our only shot. i think that a lot of blame falls with the republican leadership who totally mismanaged the roll out and set the wrong kind of expectations around this bill. >> i agree with you. no one comes out looking anything but terrible in this. the question is, what happens when things are going the wrong way, right, and what happens when things are going the wrong way, if a guy comes on like a dpoon who is a staffer who has literally no experience and doesn't have any personal relationships with these people so when he says you have to do this, they go, well, you know, we were in the trenches together on the this fight or the tax fight and he really helped me there, so i got to listen to him sympathetically. >> and this is also particularly arrogant coming from steve bannon who is someone who ran a website that would criticize so harshly anyone that wasn't ideal i cannily pure so he's reversing

it in a position of power and telling them to do exactly what he would have lam bafted them for in no uncertain terms. >> so suddenly it's okay where you did a little bit of here with hopes of doing something later which is progress of a kind. when you're bringing people in they're going to say, i'm going to get hammered if i vote for this and he says, i don't care. >> okay. >> i don't care you have to do it any way. >> they're like, drop dead, buddy. >> so what do you think when a president tweets, please watch this certain fox show tonight at 9:00 and on the fox show this happens. take a look. >> paul ryan needs to step down as speaker of the house. americans located the one man they believed could do it. a complete outsider, someone beholding to no one but them and

speaker ryan, you come in with all your swayinger and experience and you sell them a bill of goods which ends up a complete and total failure and you allow our president in his first 100 days to come out of the box like that based on what? >> welcome. >> so here's my favorite part. so donald trump, this fantastic businessman with billions of dollars gets rolled by this boy scout from wisconsin? i mean, come on. come on. is that -- that's the line that his defenders want is that he comes to washington like a rube and gets hammered by some guy who does a lot of exercise? >> he set the judge up. >> he's a sucker. >> i think he is a sucker but maureen dowd doesn't like him

and i don't like him and they like him and they're calling him a sucker. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> my life in tweets. coming out in the spring. >> you need to do that. >> that does it for us this morning. coming up on tomorrow's show ann romney joins the show. >> i am live from a very foggy washington, d.c. breaking this morning, president trump son-in-law to be called before a senate committee over his meeting with the russian ambassador. what's next. the white house tries to turn the page to the next big item on their agenda. taxes while blaming conservatives for the health care defeat. >> is the republican party capable of governing? >> even suggesting it may be time to work across the ai