is no threat he is going to hear from his old buddy rex giving him any heat this time. that's it for tonight. lock who up? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews this washington. at the republican convention last summer, michael flynn picking up on the spirit of the trump crowd goaded the audience into exuberant chants of lock her up. they wanted hillary clinton put in jail. they sure did. >> lock her up, lock her up, lock her up! >> lock her up. that's right. yeah, that's right, lock her up. if i did a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today.

>> women, today listen closely and you can pick up a slightly different rhythm right now. don't lock me up, don't lock me up. yesterday it was reported first by the "wall street journal" that trump's form area national security adviser michael flynn, the guy you saw there, his lawyer is looking to get flynn immunity it in order to testify about what he knows. according to his lawyer, he certainly has story to tell. well, this morning president trump tweeted mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt, an excuse for a big election lost by the media and democrats of historic proportion. in his briefing today, sean spicer explained the president was only trying to convey his strong desire to see flynn testify. if you actually stop for a second and realize what the president is doing is he's saying do whatever you have for do to make it clear what happened, take whatever precaution you want or however

your legal counsel advises you. >> general flynn's attorney said his client has a story to tell. is the white house concerned that general flynn has damaging information about the president, his aides, associates about what occurred during the campaign with respect to russia? >> no. >> no. we'll see. nbc reported today that the senate intelligence committee turned down his request for immunity, his lawyer said it was oileded wildly preliminary to discuss such a thing. joining me is carol lee who broke the story of the attempted immunity deal and also howard fineman, political analyst. i'm wondering what the king is thinking tonight. what is trump worried about for michael flynn? what's he got on him? >> from the white house's perspective, their posture is that he doesn't have anything on them. but if you step back -- we don't know. this is somebody mike flynn was with the president almost every day during the campaign. >> he says he has a story to tell. what's the story?

>> we don't know what the story is because there is his time spent with donald trump in the trump campaign, the transition in the white house, and then mike flynn has had contacts with russia, not just with the ambassador here in washington, but he has been paid tens of thousands of dollars by entities that are arms of the russian government and he sat at a dinner in december of 2015 with vladimir putin. and so there are a number of stories that he can tell. >> howard, look at this, we've been here before. you see a guy down a -- not far down the tree from the president. he's right there, national security virz. and the morehe's he's afraid, the more he will talk. not saying honestly under oath about whether he talked to the ambassador about russia sanctions. he's looking at serious time and he's saying i quant owant out o. i'm damn not going to prison for

this guy. >> first of all, he wants to talk at a time when he'd be most dwroofl. t useful. the ghit wacommittee wants to l everything it can from people other than flynn so they don't have to give him much if anything. so they're saying wait a minute, wait a minute. but if you're the attorney for flynn, you want to get him in there right away so 245 he gets credit for every what he says from them and also you have another reason which is you want to give yourself what they call in the trade here in washington an immunity bath. you want to cover yourself with as much immunity as the committee is willing to give you -- >> not just what you say, but anything. >> anything in order to make it more difficult for the feds for the fbi and the justice department to try to prosecute you. so those are the twin -- >> what are the areas -- first of all, he's filled out financial disclosure forms, he'd had to say what he said to the russians, how much money he got. what else? >> a lot of things. >> what he said to the russian ambassador. >> he also has spoken with the

fbi. if you look at his track record, there are two things that he's not been forthcoming on. obviously not on the nature of his conversations with the russian ambassador were. kislyak. and he did not report thinking an agent of a foreign government with some of his work that he had done for turkey. and those are just two examples. so there are a number of -- not only that, but going back to when he served in the government and was a top intelligence official, he would have to report certain contacts that he had. > >> let's talk human nature. the other day we saw chris christie, government relations person, bridget kelly, the other guy what's his name -- i forget. >> sorry, i don't remember. i know he has two years. >> and he's thinking wait a minute, sometimes the guys who work for the guy get in trouble. we saw this -- we see it a lot. with scooter libby, dick cheney. they're the ones that swing and the big guys get away. >> and he doesn't want to swing.

and to get an omtd refrain from the watergate days, the question is what did the president know and when did he know it, when did candidate trump know and when did he know it. >> bill baroni is his name. >> so the keyed here having studied it, the most vulnerable immediate thing flynn has is not registering as a foreign agent. >> and that is a serious crime. >> the lawyer he hired is an expert in that field of the law among others. so they want to try to protect him on that. >> so he wants that bath. >> he wants whenevatever he can by way of bath in terms of the prosecution that they got him on. >> donald trump and michael flynn have addressed the issue of immunity in the past. listen to what candidate trump said last september discussing hillary clinton's associates. >> her aides took the fifth amendment and her ringleaders were given immunity. and if you're not guilty of a crime, what do you need immunity

for. >> what goes around comes around in d.c. and here is what flynn said on "meet the press" in september. >> five people around her have been given immunity to include her former chief of staff. when you are given immunity, that means that you probably committed a crime. >> he just said if -- this is the day before that. he said if you want imcommunity, you probably committed a crime. >> and now the white house's position is that was that and this is now. and that doesn't mean anything now. >> i've been watching spicer. i think he's reached the point of in-credibility. were you there? what did you make of it, howard? he was say things that -- he was denying all of this. >> he's only performing for an audience of one. he's not performing for any of the reporters in the room. he's doing his shtick for the

president of the united states. for sean spicer for say our only interest is to get to the bottom of the whole thing, that's why we want him to testify, everybody in the room isn't taking that seriously, but donald trump presumably is back there in the oval office watching and saying way to give it to them, sean. >> so the more he prostitutes himself, the more he likes him. >> until donald trump decides like a kleenex tissue sean is done and he will pull somebody else do that. >> i think more like a pez dispenser. >> sean spicer is trying to do -- >> what a job description. >> it's tough. >> senator, we're chuk lichucklg about the irony, not the tragedy. we have a president with people around him who are beginning to rat on him and offer themselves up, a bath of immunity. so what do you think of this as

a former prosecutor, what is going on with trump, how dangerous -- how dangerous are his waters right now? >> i was pretty stunned he did this tweet this morning saying first of all that flynn should get the immunity which they themselves have said somehow is an implication and i'm not saying it is that a crime was committed, but then he said again that this is a witch hunt. i think at this point the american people see this for what it is. it is a truth hunt. we have to get to the bottom of what happened here. and now you have a situation where the president's former national security are adviser, literally just appointed national security adviser, lies to the vice president and then has to step down. we're now talking about immunity. and i think as a prosecutor, you got to be really careful derivative use immunity because as we saw in the case of oliver north who was actually convicted of three felony counts, but then they were reversed because it

was found that during that congressional investigation, the witnesses were so tainted that in fact the conviction, the actual conviction, didn't stand up. so i know that senator warner and senator burr and intelligence committee will be very careful here. and it is just way too early as adam schiff said today to be talking about anything like this. and i know they won't be doing anything about it without talking to the justice department if this is an ongoing investigation as we believe it is. >> senator, let's talk about pli political irony here. you're not been around as long as i have, but i got to tell you there is an old phrase what goes around comes around and here are these people that were trucking in the business of saying we're going to put people in jail like it's soerk somewhere, pakistan, where are if you lose an location, we put you away. they were talking like that just a few months ago and now talking immunity. did you think of the phrase lock her up when they were throwing

that line out in cleveland? >> as a former prosecutor and someone who has had to be very careful before you jump to those conclusions, i can't tell you when i had that job for eight years how many times i would say we are still looking at the evidence. this is what is out there publicly, this is what is in the complaint. you simply can't jump to conclusions like that as a leader. sure you can sitting in a bar with your friends, but when you're a leader on national television, you have an obligation to be careful with knows kinds of words and there is some irony in the fact that they're now coming back to haunt them. >> what do you make of the long progression of incidences where there was connections between the trump campaign, his people from manafort to carter page, roger stone, himself, all these people including flynn having these regular encounters with russians at the time that we were dealing with the sanctions issue, where the republicans were rewriting that are platform including how we should deal with ukraine in a far more

lenient manner than ever before, when money was being passed to flip and people like that, what do you make of the connection? does it looks like a two way connection or just a one way connection? >> you know, i think this is getting seedier and seedier and seedier. i read that intelligence report, the 17 intelligence agencies, the one that was public. and i thought to myself this is our united states intelligence agencies saying that this is actually going on and having been in ukraine with john mccain and lindsey graham, having seen the influence of russia and what they have done, the invasions, killings of 10,000 people, this isn't just games and some fun little thing of cloak and dagger. this is actually something happening. and when you go from manafort the campaign chair to the national security adviser to the fact that he talked to the russian ambassador on the exact same day president obama announced expanded sanctions and then you have the attorney general of the united states having met with that same ambassador only three days after

president obama and putin met and president obama made clear he wasn't taking away the sanctions, it's just one person in power after another. and that is why not only is this intelligence investigation important, it's why we have to have an independent commission. and that is something that on january 4th, i called for with ben cardin and elijah ycummings and adam schiff. let's have a public independent commission. >> you can't rely on the house anymore, can you. >> no, but you can rely on the senate. >> can you rely on the committee led by nunes? >> i have called for his recusal very clearly. but i do think we want to allow the senate process to continue. i thought both snar warner and burr did a very good job this week and there is no reason at the same time you can't have an independent commission. they will be look at it from a different angle. that is a panel of experts just

like after 9/11 that would be coming forward with ways that we would he cou could prevent this from happening again. this is not just an assault on one candidate, it is an assault on all democracies. >> we've had problems in our history whether joe mccarthy back in the '50s and in watergate, we're very partisan. i know a lot of people who watch this show are passionately progressive. but when we work together, this country is somber off. thank you senator for coming on. there has been a thooem eme by way in sean spicer's briefing today. see if you can pick up on it. watch. >> i don't know what he knows. >> do you know if that is the case? >> i don't. if i start commenting on every one of these stories, gentleman -- that is not our practice. i don't know the answer to that. i don't know the answer to that question. i don't know the answer to that. some of it -- i don't know. i don't know. you should -- i'm not aware of that. >> if you could just find out -- >> no, you can call the fbi.

>> do you have any new information about how the chairman did get on to the campus? >> as i said the last few days, i'm not going to discuss it. >> any problem with -- >> i'm not- ---respectfully, th counsel's office is working with them. white house counsel's office sent that letter, it's not my decision and i don't know what we mr. or will not do going forward and i don't want to pre-judge that. >> reminds me of hogan's heros. i don't know nothing, sergeant schultz. what do you make of that performance? this guy's job, it's i don't know nothing. what was nunez s doing? he picks up a pifl christmpile presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before.spile of chris presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before. pile of chris presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before.pile of christ presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before.pile of christ presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before.apile of chris presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before. pile of chris presents. he knew he got it from his crowd the night before.

>> there are times sean spicer has said he does know. he would say it doesn't make sense that nunes would come back here and then go back there. >> doesn't pass the smell test. >> doesn't pass the smell test. so "i don't know" seems to be the new way of dealing with that. and it used to be press secretaries would say i'll take the yes and get back ck questio and get back to you. >> i agreed to take the question, i didn't agree to give the answer.get back to you. >> i agreed to take the question, i didn't agree to give the answer. >> they are desperately frying to shift the question from what russia did to what about this. >> it's a side show. >> and sean spencer today was trying to chankt thege the narr word. that's the favorite word, narrative. who can construct the narrative. and he can't do it. he's trying. he's trying to impress the bottboss, but he can't. >> history books will be written with history. it won't be nunes. he'll be forgotten hopefully.

anyway, great reporting. thank you. up next, talk about march madness for the trump administration. we'll tell you why march has not been a good month for this president. and this is "hardball" where the action is.

i'm ricardo, a sales and service consultant here at the xfinity store in bellevue, washington. here at the store, we offer internet, tv, phone, customer service, home security. every situation is a little different. it could be about billing, simple questions like changing the phone number. sometimes, they want to upgrade, downgrade, but at the end of the day, you want to take care of the customer.

one of the great things about comcast, there's always room to move up. of course, it depends on you, how hard you work. ♪ apart from college basketball these days, there is also real march madness at the white house. it started when i news reports reported attorney general jeff sessions met twice with the russian ambassador in the

transition after he had previously said he had not. sessions recused position from the investigation into collusion a day later. then on the 4th of the month, trump dropped his explosive tweets falsely accusing the prior administration of wiretapping him during the campaign. march 6, republicans unveiled the american health care act but one week later the cbo said the bill would cause 24 million americans to lose coverage. two days later on the 15th, a federal judge blocked the president's second travel ban and on march 20th, fbi director james comey publicly confirmed that the bureau is investigating alleged ties between the trump campaign and russia. two days later, chairman devin nunes claimed he had seen intelligence reports showing accidental surveillance of the trump transition team which we now know was provided by the white house. on march 23, the vote on the gop health care plan is delayed indicating there is not enough support to pass it. and day later it's pulled all together.

that same day, the president ignites a war within his party against the freedom caucus and on the 25th, he promotes a segment on fox news that calls for house speaker paul tri-step down. on the 29th, a judge in hawaii extended the travel ban. and then just yesterday, three white house officials are outed for showing intelligence reports to chairman nunes. and michael flynn asking for legal immunity from advice gatogat investigators in exchange for his testimony. it's revealed the senate has turned down that question about that when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball."

trump watch friday march 31, 2017. where there was evidence last year some would say quite a lot during last year's campaign that donald trump had not prepared himself to serve as president. there were areas of concern that

simply had not grabbed his attention over the years, areas of great concern to this country's security and the rights of its citizens. and one of those areas was wimg's productive rights. whatever your position on abortion how you see it as a matter of personal or societal morality, how you believe it should be handled or not handled by the law, it is a matter most people have given serious thought to. donald trump is not one of those people as i and you learned this time a year ago. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> there are other questions to which the candidate trump gave unsettling answers in the campaign. in that same interview for example trump refused to roll o rule out the use of nuclear weapons in europe and one has to wonder what would put that option as trump said on the table.in europe and one has to what would put that option as trump said on the table.

think back to roosevelt saying we have nothing to fear except fear itself. but with this president, fear itself may come in handy. that's "hardball." coming up next, "your business" with jj ramberg.

good morning. coming up on "your business," there is trouble brewing with this detroit woman's tea company. we'll find out what her challenges are and see if the yo"your business" makeover team can help her grow her business. we bring in two retailer experts to show a store other than how to turn foot traffic into sales. and what for-profits can learn from the man running a nonprofit that is helping to bring clean water around the world. lots of information and inspiration coming up next on yo"your business."