>> thanks to hallie jackson. >> that's a wrap, i'm alex witt alongside ayman mohyeldin and louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. two major foreign policy crises developing right now. north korea launched another ballistic missile, the fourth this year alone. an an apparent chemical weapons attack onhe syrian people killing more than 80 people, many children. at what point are these sarin gas attacks too much to ignore? the president is waking up this morning to ever sinking plummeting poll numbers, under water on just about every key issue. more than a blow to his ego. the likes of kim jong-un and bass sar al assad are access to these numbers and weakness is what these numbers are saying, are they not? >> no doubt about it, mika, whether an enemy abroad, an ally

abroad, a political opponent at home or ally at home, you look at these numbers and this is a president who has been undercut by bad decisions, low poll numbers. it's a real crisis in the white house politically. >> so on this important day, welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, april 5th. we have seen your political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin. senior writer on national security for the "wall street journal" shane harris along with joe, willie and me. we've got three hours, we're going to do all these stories right and lay them out in a big world. the leader of the free world is hovering under 40% approval ratings just months into his administration. gallup daily tracking poll has the president at 38%. ibd with 36%. the latest quinnipiac poll has

trump at 35%. the quinnipiac pollsters note by comparison george w. bush's lowest, 28% in their poll, came nearly eight years into office, two unpopular wars, a housing crisis that drove a deep recession. president trump is under water on most key issues right now. 64% disapprove of his perfo performance on health care. 57% disapprove of his handling on immigration issues. 48% disapprove his handling on the economy. 61% on environmental policy. 58% disapprove of his handling on foreign policy. 49% disapprove of his handling on terrorism. joe? >> mark halperin, how bad do these numbers impact the president's ability to get anything done, whether it's overseas or at home? >> it's tough. we talk all the time about how low poll numbers diminish the

sway with congress. these foreign leaders are aware of how these numbers impact the president's ability to deliver on things, how much room it gives him to maneuver, and you look at past presidents as was suggested before, numbers like this usually after you've done a lot of stuff and ap nailed pete. at the time he's facing incoming from around the world, the big summit thursday and friday with the president of china, he's facing a lot of tough decisions without a lot of leverage. these poll numbers give him less leverage rather than more. >> shane, what we're looking at, also, is a number of different foreign policy crises. the questions surrounding the white house itself, the questions that erupted yesterday over susan rice. do these poll numbers make a difference in the big picture? >> i think they do. these are all converging at one time. they put trump in a box and how he can respond to them. these are not new problems.

the north korean nuclear issue is something he inherited from obama. the syrian issue, what did he do yesterday? he criticized the obama administration for its weak stance. these are in his court now. he's the chief foreign policy official. this is up to him. though his poll numbers are low, that doesn't change the necessity for him to respond forcefully. >> you can't overstate the importance of these numbers to the president himself. his stump speech for many, many months consisted him solely pulling a piece of paper out of his pocket and reading his poll numbers. he may fight back against the number, cite another poll that has him higher. there's no good news. 35% is the number you see at the end of a bad presidency. the one good number where 52% say the economy is good, even in there 66% of the people says president obama gets credit for the good economy. >> the two things he cares most

about are winning and strength. these numbers don't reflect either of those things. >> president trump is more popular, though, than his own party. in that quinnipiac poll americans disapprove of republicans 70% to 21%, a 14-point negative swing from two weeks ago, about one point a day. harry n tweeted when you look at a generic ballot the house gop is in the worst position ever for a majority party at this point. democrats are also unpopular. their disapproval/approval is 57 to %. but a bit of an upswing. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are all significantly upside down in their favorability polling. joe, the republican party is in a very difficult position.

>> were you coming to me? every time you come to me, people in the booth are talking to me. this is the third time this morning you have asked me a question and i haven't been able to hear it. so, yeah, the republican party is in trouble. if donald trump thinks he can somehow blame this on paul ryan or the house, he's completely wrong. they're looking straight at him. their numbers are collapsing because of him, because there's no leadership in the republican party and this is very, very bad, not just for trump. it's bad for paul ryan and bad for the house. at the end of the day, everybody looks back to the person who is supposed to be running the show and it's donald trump, and the news, mark halperin, is all bad. if you're working on the hill, why would he do anything for donald trump? >> republicans have been front and center since certainly november and more since january. paul ryan has had a big platform. they've been able to lay out their agenda on all sorts of

things. as you said, the president is mostly front and center. this makes it difficult for republicans to want to follow the president, as you said. it also makes it difficult for the president to say, well, i want to stand side by side with republican leaders because they're less popular than he is. >> those weak poll numbers comes as the president faces major foreign policy challenges. yesterday north korea launched another ballistic missile. it traveled 37 miles and similar to previous tests crashed into the sea of japan. u.s. pacific campaign says the medium range missile did not pose an immediate threat to the continental united states. it's the regime's fourth test just this year and comes as the u.s. and south korea conduct their annual joint military drills. in a statement, secretary of state rex tillerson said succinctly, north korea launched yet another intermediate range ballistic missile. the united states has spoken enough about north korea. we have no further comment. just days ago, president trump

told the "financial times" that the u.s. is ready to deal with the north korean nuclear threat if needed asking, quote, if china is not going to solve north korea, we will. the president is hosting chinese president ping and north korea will be a major topic of discussion. >> gordon chang, the author of "the comes collapse of china." gordon, thanks for being with us. the backdrop of this missile test, is the meeting between president trump and the premier of china, what should the posture of president trump and the united states government be at this point given what's happening in north korea tards china? >> i think the united states and the white house aouncemen yeerday was essentially the clock has run out on north korea. i think that the position of president trump when he speaks

to chinese president xi jinping is the clock has almost run out on china because china has supplied critical ballistic missile equipment and perhaps, probably, critical ballistic missile technology, like the plans for the solid fuel missile probably had a chinese origin. i think president trump needs to ask how the north koreans got that and that's how the conversation should start. >> what flows from there is president trump effectively accuses china of o aiding an abetting north korea, what does that do to the american-chinese relationship? >> certainly it's not going to be a good one. at some point we have to confront these issues. china has also helped the north korean nuclear weapons program as well. we haven't had the conversation because we didn't want to upset chinese leader. it's important we face the issues and get answers from china. if we don't do that, we're showing the chinese we're afraid

of them and we'll continue to let them help the north koreans in ways that are very destructive. >> in your latest piece with "the daily beast," gordon writes, quote, most meetings of american and chinese leaders are planned well in advance and are highly scripted. this summit is anything but. it's time for trump to dump policies that sound good to the ear but no longer work. instead he should ignore convention, disrupt settled ties and raise tensions. americans believe good relations are a nation with friendly relations, that's wrong. good relations are those that protect america's interests and those of its allies and friends. bad actors never want to be opposed, confronted or contained. they always promote kod y'all relations with victims and bystanders. trump raising tensions is the right direction if it's not a strategy. at this late date going wrong from the american perspective, ending in smiles, talking of

mutual respect and continued chinese bad acts jeopardizing the u.s. and the international community. gordon, let me ask you point-blank, how big the threat from north korea is right now. people have mocked their failed missile tests over the years, mocked the leaderment we know the problems internally in the country. how serious is this threat? right now north korea has three missiles that can hit the lower 38 states. they're based on proven technologies and they probably work. they can't mate a nuke to them yet. that's probably four years down the road. we have to remember even today the north koreans can take a device, smuggle it across our borders and set it off in a suchlt s. city. if north korea wanted to attack the u.s., that's probably the way they would do it. north korea is a threat especially because the leader there has a low threshold of risk, in an unstable situation. therefore, he may decide to do things that would stun us.

>> high stakes at mar-a-lago. gordon chang, thank you very much. mark halperin, the president saying we are going it alone with north korea. is that possible? >> some people interpret it as military action. you go into this summit and want to confront the chinese. the problem is, what leverage does the united states have over china. this is the problem the previous administration dealt with. we want lots of stuff from the chinese, what do they want from us? >> we have the chinese president coming to mar-a-lago. might it be important ha the foreign policy team meets with him as well, assists president trump in this conversation and golf game? i don't mean to sound snarky, but these are serious times. we're waking up to two incredibly serious foreign policy crises and a president whose poll numbers are dropping to historic lows to the point where he may not be able to have any impact in any conversation if he's not careful. am i wrong? >>no. these are hugely consequential

issu issues. he needs to be brought up to speed quickly. >> consequential issues. >> this is external that we're talking about. when president obama met with president-elect trump and said this is going to come to fruition on your watch. this is the big one you're going to have to deal with. the united states didn't have a magic policy for dealing with north korea during the obama administration. it doesn't have one now. what you see in terms of him going to china and saying china is going to have to solve this problem, that's not going to cut it. we'll have to come up with solutions to this as well. there's nothing i'm seeing coming out of the white house, to put it mildly. so i think we're all watching to see that meeting in florida, maybe really to see what china comes out saying because we haven't seen anything coming out of the administration of what exactly their proposal is for north korea other than to stop it from getting -- >> you look at these two big threats, north korea backed by china, syria backed by russia. those two leaders, the chinese

and russian leaders can look at american polls and the president has to figure out how to solve those two problems at a time when he's not popular and he and his team are trying to get up to speed on foreign policy. >> the russians came out overnight, in syria and said this was not the syrian government in this chemical attack. it was that they hit mistakenly a weapons depo held by terrorists that released chemical weapons. rush b yeah is defending bashar al assad on this. is he in a position strength enough that he can do something about that? >> his poll numbers are at direct lows. he has spent his presidency not saying anything critical about vladimir putin. does that have any consequences? >> huge. we're taking russia's lines. the administration's line on the future of bashar al assad is that's up to the syrian people to decide. >> does the president understand the consequences here? does he understand the

consequences of just sort of floating even what you would call pleasant tris towards the leader of russia. does he understand he may have to actually deal with him on a deeper level? >> i don't think people in the foreign policy and intelligence community i've talked to said he has much appreciation at all. they've been worried for a long time. especially talking the relationship between president trump and vladimir putin and russia. this is a cloud and they've approached him carefully because they're still trying to figure out where do his priorities lie and how much of our policy are we off-loading to russia in places like syria. the things he said about putin, that makes the foreign intelligence community very nervous and his apparent inability or unwillingness to dive deeply into issues and get

briefed on them in a cursory kind of sense before some of these challenges he has to take on. that worries pele, too. you can't just come in an wing this. these are deeply complex issues and you have to get up to speed and invent some kind of knowledge of the subtleties of this problem before you go into negotiations. >> we'll continue to talk about the threat from north korea and the president's poll numbers. on the front page of every paper around the world is the other issue we're facing. president trump's response to the latest atrocity in syria was aimed at much as president trump as it was at the syrian dictator. we'll ask the leader of the syrian opposition what she needs from the commander-in-chief. also four influential voices in the u.s. senate. republicans tom cotton, john thune and ron johnson are with us, plus senator tim kaine on whether his position on a supreme court filibuster changed when the new party took power. first let's go to bill karins tracking threats of severe

tornadoes today. >> serious story today, mika. we only get this a couple times every spring. it's one of those days when we're trying to save lives from multiple tornadoes, maybe the possibility of large tornadoes on the grounds for a long time. last night in southern missouri we had a report of at least one tornado that did significant damage. no injuries, no fatalities. so that's the good news. today is the really dangerous day. already watching strong storms in alabama and georgia with large hail. tornado threat later on today. here is the big map. don't see it this often and this huge. 55 million people at risk. strong long track tornadoes, typically the most deadly that do the most destruction. that's what's possible today. they've already canceled school in a lot of areas of the south. atlanta, montgomery, macon, augusta and outside of savannah including central tennessee are most at risk later today. early tomorrow morning we'll have areas, about 15 million people from washington, d.c.,

richmond, those areas at risk for straight line winds and isolated tornadoes. a very dangerous afternoon in areas of the deep south. try to keep as many people as safe as possible. if you have family and friends in the area, make sure to tell them they're at risk today. washington, d.c., your storms come through early tomorrow morning with strong winds, but a beautiful, nice day today. you're watching "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? it's my decision ito make beauty last. roc® retinol, started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week.

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so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount at least 83 people are reported dead including 25 children following a suspected chemical weapons attack in syria. we want to warn you very carefully that the images for this story are extremely disturbing. at least 350 more were said to have been wounded in this attack that happened at the rebel-held city of idlib. here we go. a top syrian military officer has denied syria used any chemical weapons while russian

media citing the defense ministry says it was a government air strike that hit an alleged rebel chemical weapons stash. the u.n. security council will meet this morning at 10:00 a.m. to discuss this attack. in a statement president trump condemned the reprehensible and intolerable attack while shifting blame to his predecessor, president obama saying in part, quote, this, these heinous actions by the bashar al assad regime are a consequence of the past administration's weakness and ir resolution. president obama said in 2012 that he would establish a red line against the use of chemical weapons and did nothing. it contrasts with a tweet from trump in september of 2013 which reads this, president obama, do not attack syria. there is no upside and

tremendous downside. save your powder for another and more important day. joe, let's lay it out here and talk about this. first of all, on this show we've been extremely critical all along to the obama administration for their inaction or lack of strength as it pertains to syria. having said that, this is on trump's watch. what do you make of his first reaction to this? well, first of all, it's our jobs to criticize presidents whether it's what george w. bush was doing in iraq or what barack obama was doing in syria. that's what we get paid to do. what the president of the united states gets paid to do is lead us together as a country at times of crises. him carping at the last president for the last president's failures is as unbecoming as, let's say, barack obama carping at george w. bush.

i don't remember obama doing that specifically in this sort of crisis, but there always was that sort of carping. but by his own statement donald trump now puts the responsibility on his shoulders. okay, you're criticizing barack obama for what he did not do in 2012, what are you going to do five years later? because now you're the president of the united states and i personally don't care what he tweeted in 2013. i care what he said yesterday, and i care what he said today. so, mika, the way i read that, he's being critical of the president for doing nothing when assad used chemical weapons. well assad used chemical weapons, so what is donald trump, president of the united states in 2017 going to do, other than cozy up to assad's number one enabler in the world, assad, unlts he's a complete hypocrite and we have every

reason to believe that he is, he will do something about this. he will take strong aggressive action with the world community. mark halperin, he will sto this. he can't criticizearack obama on one hand for turning a blind eye to assad's chemical weapons in 2012 and allow it to happen in 2017 and do absolutely nothing while this holocaust unfurls before our eyes. >> why is this such a big week? he's dealing with three of the most retractible foreign policy challenges, how to get north korea to stop having missiles and nuclear weapon, how to get china to stop taking advantage of the united states and the economy, and how to get the syrian civil war to end, how to get assad out of power and russia's influence there to diminish? in all those cases, the onus is on him now. he doesn't like how president dealt with those three issues. this is the week when he's got an opportunity, if you want to put it in a different way, to

say it's not a crisis, it's an opportunity. this is his opportunity to say, i didn't like what president obama did on those three issues, i'm going to do it differently. the statements yesterday didn't show roadmap to how he'll deal with assad any differently except to say we're going to leave him in power. >> pointing fingers back five years ago does nothing for what happened yesterday and the day before and what's happening every day. shane harris, why don't we just face the grim reality? it seems there's going to be very little the united states of america can do to persuade russia to intervene in syria and very little donald trump is going to be able to do to get china to intervene in north korea in a meaningful way. >> i think when we went earlier to the question of people in the foreign policy community having anxiety about trump's knowledge of nrk or russia or some of these issues. in syria this is a place where he c try to do something and do more than therevious administration had done.

i think he would win a lot of points and build confidence with people, even holdovers from the obama administration were deeply frustrated with the fact that we drew a red line and did nothing about bashar al assad's chemical weapons. even trying to work out some kind of response would be more than the previous administration did and potentially give him the opportunity to say, look, i'm trying. there is no perfect answer to any of these problems. it's not sitting in a box on a shelf some place. he could add least try to do something and he would be making some progress. >> remember just last week secretary of state rex tillerson said the fate of bashar al assad is up to the syrian people which is a departure from the rhetoric of the obama white house that assad needed to leave. what are the answers? now president trump faces the same finite list of potential actions that vexed the obama administration for years. he could put american boots on the ground, something president obama categorically ruled out, although there are special forces there.

he could establish a no-fly zone and risk having to shoot down russian or turkish fighter jets who stray into the area. he could train fighters and supply weapons to so-called moderate rebels, an option that carries a big risk of inadvertently arming tear writs, he could push neighboring countries to step in and establish safe zones for refugees. joining us now, baz ma code bonnie and nbc foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin. from your perspective, what happened yesterday? these pictures shot across the world, horrifying, showing children suffocating to death, foaming at the mouth. what happened in syria. >> testimonies are very clear, a russian-made plane maybe piloted by a syrian, shelled those areas.

children, women were the most attacked, those who suffered most, who received those attacks and who, in fact, died because they're more vulnerable and suffocate more easily than men. it was an add tack on women and children. it was an attack on civilians. not on any military targets there. we don't know that a legitimate military target was hit. all we know is these civilians have died, dozens, and the aircraft that is a russian-made aircraft that bombed the area with clem cal weapons. we don't know if this was sarin gas or chlorine, these was banned in 2013 under un resolutions and the obama administration with russia that syria had dismantled entirely

its chemical weapons arsenal and is now -- will not use them again. it has used them again and again against children and women. >> well, the world community has done, as you know, unfortunately tragically more than anyone else, the world community, western democracies, the united states, they've done absolutely nothing while 500,000 syrians have died. what would you have the united states, our allies in europe and anyone else who wants to be part of a coalition of the willing to stop these attacks against civilians? what would you have western democracies do? >> look, i think we -- the syrians are watching and waiting to see if any leader in this world, particularly president trump, is going to go beyond statements of outrage. we've ladd enough of those over six years and failure to do

ything about it. now i think first of all, the syrian regime's air force should be grounded, never allowed to fly again, and i think if president trump can speak to president putin in russia who says he wants a political exit now, an exit strategy from syria, wants a political settlement, maybe he can ask that he delivers, that he delivers assad. assad should not fly iranian forces who support assad who actually fight for assad because assad has almost lost his army, has no military capacity of his own anymore. he can maybe reign in those iranians, push them out, push them backwards so they are not fighting syrians everywhere in the country and encouraging jihadism. think what we're seeing is assad is manufacturing terrorists

every day and is now asking the international community to come and propose himself as their ally to fight terrorism. can we see this is the trap that assad has put to the international community, that president trump is now seeing assad could stay. these statements are a blank check for assad to continue. that is how the syrians yesterday read the attack. >> all right. thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. willie geist, it does seem to me while arming rebel factions across syria now is far more dangerous today than it would have been five years ago when there actually wereoderate factions there still fighting. certainly the world community should be able to figure out a way to enact a no-fly zone and let the russians know that we're going in and that's what we're

doing, that western democracies can not stand by any longer and watch 3-year-old children gassed by russian airplanes whether they're syrian pilots dropping weapons of mass destruction or russians. >> joe, we can go back to tapes, you, mika and me over the last six years and having this exact conversation, saying how long are we going to stand by? now it's been six years. ayman mohyeldin, there are 5 million people who have left the country, half a million killed, 6 million internally displaced in syria. a lot of people this morning after seeing those pictures yesterday saying do something. that's a lot more difficult than it sounds. what's the most realistic approach the united states and the west can take. >> if there was such an easy answer to that, willie, i'm sure they would have considered it by now.

you heard recommended by bessma, grounding the syrian air force. the united states along with members of arab countries could carry out air strikes against syrian air force targets to prevent them from carrying out these types of barrel bombs, crude barrel bombs or chemical attacks on targets on varus parts of t country. that could be one immediate military action on the table. there is a lot of complexity with carrying out military actions in syria. keep in mind president trump has met with president of egypt, meeting with king abdullah. he has to navigate in the arab world and muslim world different opinions and strategies. the president of egypt said the syrian government and syrian army belonging to assad should be supported. king abdullah of jordan is probably going to make the argument that president assad of syria has to go. president trump is waking up to a reality of very different

interests in the middle east. if you add to that the complexities of things like the muslim travel ban you'll start to see why it's difficult to get their support when the united states wants to go into action in syria if that's the course they decide to do. >> mika, i want to follow up on what willie said. it is so important. we could go to tape over the past six years and we could find one leader after another leader coming on this show, and when we say people are dying, they're using barrel bombs, they're using chemical weapons, using weapons of mass -- everybody that comes on the show has always said, well, it's hard, it's hard, it's difficult, we don't know what to do. yes, we know that. but as henry kissinger said, when you're a leader of this country, you rarely get to choose between a good decision and a bad decision. it's usually choosing between a bad decision and a worse decision. barack obama and his

administration refused to take any tough decisions on syria. donald trump, he's tweeting and he's putting out, finger-pointing, elementary school level press releases attacking the previous administration instead of telling us what he is going to do, and i just wonder what would have happened several years ago if the syrian air force had been grounded when we were asking people on this show, don't we ground the syrian air force to stop the barrel bombs, to stop the weapons of mass destruction, the chemical attacks? i don't want to hear another politician come on this show and say it's hard. we get it. we've heard that for six years. roll the pictures, we will show you what your ringing of hands has done. the international community,

mika, have to come together in some way. >> we're going to be watching some challenges with that. we have a president who has certainly criticized the former president for not acting on this. he is now on the spot. the question is on him. it's on his watch. what's he going to do? what's he going to do about this? and then the bigger question will be can he do anything given how he has conducted himself, not only during the campaign but during these first weeks and months of his presidency because we may find that being credible matters. not lying matters, words that you say matter. whether or not you have the support of your party matters. you asked the question earlier, joe, why would any republicans do anything for donald trump? why would anybody in the world community do anything for donald trump right now? i'm very worried about this. >> and the party especially, why would the party do anything for him when he's taken them to

record lows in just two months. his numbers are at record lows. one thing that donald trump can't do, if we're going to get anything done, is to blame barack obama. that does us no good today than barack obama and his administration blaming george w. bush. you've got to look forward and you've got to give us solutions. again, i don't know, mika, how the world community allows the syrian air force to continue flying and dropping chemical weapons on little children and strangling them in view of the entire world. by the way, if you're a policymaker, it's hard is no longer an accepted answer on "morning joe." come with solutions or don't come at all. what do we have next? >> still ahead, when it comes to approval numbers, obamacare is far outpacing the two leaders fighting to wipe it out. what that could mean for rank and file republicans still

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remember they say the electoral college is hard, they say almost impossible for a republican to win. the odds are stacked. they would say there's no way to 270, the same people that say all of the bad stuff, they're saying there's no way to 270, but there was a way to 306. president trump dealing with two foreign policy crises, washington gridlock and historically low poll numbers. >> mika, i'm curious, we only showed a clip of that. did he talk about 34% approval rating and the investors business daily poll or the 35% rating in quinnipiac? i'm just curious. we only showed one clip of that. they say sometimes we take one part of a clip out. if he did talk about the 34% approval rating, it would be fair to put that part up. alex, did trump bring up the 34% approval rating of that speech? do we have a transcript of that?

>> we're pouring through it but i don't think we did. >> thank you, alex. if we do get the part of the speech where he talks about 34% approval rating, we will play it for you all because we don't want to be fake news. we want to be as complete and accurate as possible. >> former congressman harold ford junior and "the washington post's" eugene robinson join the conversation. we're coming right back. so tell us your big idea for getting the whole country booking on choice hotels.com.

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vice president mike pence spent his second night in a row on capitol hill, to repeal and replace obamacare. joining us now, msnbc political analyst and professor at university of michigan, former democratic congressman harold ford, junior. on capitol hill, national reporter for action yos, jonathan swann. joe, my ideology might be way off on this. are they really going to work on health care right now, repealing and replacing? >> boy, you know, it's -- >> it seems really dumb. >> dumb is a good word to use for it. harold ford, the senate's response, every time we see activity of the house on health care over the past week has

basically been bless their hearts. that's what we hear from mitch mcconnell, i think john cornyn as well. it ain't going to happen. you've got a president that's not exactly sure what he wants. you look at the polls this morning, the this morning. the approval for their health care plan is now below 17%. the approval of obamacare is more popular than elvis in '57. it's not going their direction. >> it is curious. i guess the commitment that you've heard from pence and republicans in need to create $750 billion to a trillion dollars in savings which they had hoped to create from health care reform in order to do tax reform must be bigger than i thought. i thought after this past like many the president would move on, would tout the need to grow the economy, would say that tax cuts and infrastructure spend would do that. it's almost a strange and bizarre outreach to freedom

caucus and other conservatives to show this president's commitment to health reform. maybe they have done polling to show the base of the party is deeply, deeply committed to undoing and reforming health care, undoing what they know as obamacare, maybe they have to keep that in the lexicon. for the life of me, as someone who follows politics, this is bewildering why they would take what capital they lost so dramatically trying to pass health care in the beginning and go down what seems to be a futile path. >> you've been reporting on this second bite of the apple, mike pence trying to get some energy behind health reform. the 35% approval rate of donald trump, a lot is unmitigated disaster that was first go-round of health care, 28% approve of his handling of the health care situation. why go back in? why be different in terms of putting together the house, disparate coalitions in the house that he's going to need to

put together? >> if anything, this second round has unraveled quicker than the first one. my phone started blowing up yesterday around 2:00 from conservatives, house freedom caucus people and outside groups already blaming paul ryan for blocking white house. leadership fights back, no, this is freedom caucus trying to shift blame. the tuesday group starts texting, it becomes like a complaint hot line. last night they meet. it appears the sort of scripted line from everyone was good talk, good progress. i think i heard a few people say that. the reality is it was terrible talks and terrible progress, in fact, nonexistent progress. the text messages i got between 11:00 p.m. and 1:00 a.m., if anything, the gulf between the moderates and conservatives is just as far as it was when this whole thing exploded. >> all right. jonathan swann, thank you very much. harold, stay with us with that

thought. >> i'm not really good, meika, t politics. how much of a difference between good talks, good progress, and terrible talks and terrible progress? i'm not good at this. i have haven't been on the hill a while. >> what does your amateur take on politics lead you to believe that would be. >> i don't know. i'm so confused but i'm so confused by what they have been doing at the white house for 60 some days. why do they start with the health care, after they set this hand to the same stuff bill clinton did in 2003 and obama did in 2009. why? that hurt. no. stop. hey, memo to republicans, stop sticking your hand on the stove. i will say it for the 1,000th time, tax reform, regulatory reform, infrastructure, let us

pray. go ahead. >> if you want to be effective, these are grave times and we need people who it step up in washington. coming up, assessing the trump administration's response to two major foreign policy stories. one out of north korea, the other syria we're going to talk to several members of the senate armed services and foreign relations committe incding timkae, tom cotton and ron johnson plus senator john thune joins the conversation. "morning joe" back in a moment. , nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? we're like a basketball team here at ally. if a basketball team had over 7... i'm in. 7,000 players. our plays are a little unorthodox. but to beat the big boys, you need smarter ways to save people money. we know what you want from a financial company and we'll stop at... nothing to make sure you get it. one, two... and we mean nothing. ♪ ♪ and we mean nothing.

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welcome back to "morng joe." wednesday april 5th. with us we ha sior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin. >> big smile today. >> harold ford, jr. joining the conversation pulitzer prize winning columnist and "washington post" eugene robinson. national security correspondent

for "new york times" david sanger joins us as well. good to have you all on board. we have a lot going on this morning. >> a lot. >> we're going to start with those poll numbers, joe, the leader of the free world. president donald trump is hovering under 40% approval as he faces two major foreign policy crisis. gallup poll has president trump at 39%. the investors business daily has the president at 34% with 56% disapproving. the latest quinnipiac university poll has trump at 35%. the quinnipiac polsters note that by comparison george w. bush's lowest was 28% in their poll. but that came after nearly eight years in office to unpopular wars and a housing crisis that then drove a deep recession. donald trump sits at these low approval ratings right now just how many days into his presidency?

this is epic. where have we seen this before? who does this? who can do this badly? >> he's taken a great -- he's had great opportunity. >> and just flushed it down the toilet. >> and did it in the most obvious ways, days he was warned day in and day out. they didn't listen to anybody. they didn't listen to any advice. not just from people aroundhis table but from every network. they stayed in their little bubble, and they have driven these approval ratings down. mark halperin, 34%, 35%, 39%. the real clear politics average below 40% now. this is, again, i'm not really good at this politics thing, but this seems kind of historically rotten. there aren't a lot of parallel for any president doing this poorly this early on. >> there isn't much of a parallel. probably if you look at the election results and his base,

he probably can't go much lower but he's not going to get things done. of course you go back to haley barbour's axiom that politics, good gets better and bad gets worse. he needs some victory, whether it's with china, whether it's with syria, whether it's in some legislative initiative. he needs to show people that he can fulfill the promises he made. right now people are looking, i think, based on what's in this poll and my travels last week to five states, people want to see him live up to what he promised to do, which is change things, shake things up and make lives better for americans, foreign and domestic. he's not done that. >> no. >> unfortunately, mika, the problem is much more complicated than that. one issue is not going to help donald trump and at the same time it's easier than that. this is up to donald trump. he has himself surrounded by a few people that have told him go

to war with everybody. go to war with the intel community. go to war with the press. go to war with republicans on the hill who don't give you exactly what you want the second you want it. go to war with democrats on the hill. talk to most powerful people in washington like they are a child. call chuck schumer a clown. all these problems begin and end with donald trump. maybe they get a crowd riseing to their feet in parts of america, on long island and queens. maybe they love that. it doesn't work in washington. we've said it every day. he's at 34%. if this continues he'll be at 28%. it doesn't get better unless he changes things inside the white house. there is no quick fix for this. the fix is with donald trump and getting rid of the people and stop listening to the people who told him you have to stay at war all the time. >> in case he needs some details

on this, president trump is under water on most key issues. 64% disapprove of his performance on health care. 57% disapprove of his handling on immigration issues. 48% disapprove of his handling of the economy. 61% disapprove of his handling of environmental policy. 58% disapprove of his handling of foreign policy. i'm not sure exactly how he's handled anything as it pertains to forgn policy. 49% disapprove of his handling of terrorism. willie, these are dismal numbers which don't lend itself to getting support when he needs it. >> at a time he needs it democrat sti domestically and foreign policy. people looking to act and react to the actions that happened yesterday. gene robinson, let me just ask

you, i talk to people who voted for donald trump. many of them look at something like yesterday where you had this horrifying incident, this attack, this chemical attack in syria, and they watch the response from the president of the united states with the world watching and more time to spend barack obama's policy than bashar al assad. they say, come on, man, it's time to get serious. i voted for you but get serious about the job. >> that was an appalling statement and appalling performance by the administration on this. syria, it's the problem from hell. i don't think anyone should pretend obama administration covered itself in glory with syria but come on. there's got to be something more than this. we've seen absolutely nothing except an attempt at blame shifting which doesn't help anybody. it certainly doesn't help people

who were killed by poison gas. it doesn't help the millions who were displaced. come on, get serious. that's exactly right. as markalperin said bad gets worse. i think he can go lower in the polls, maybe not -- there is a -- as he continues to disappoint on economic issues. as appalachia sees that the coal mines don't come back, that sort of thing, it could get worse. >> joe, we have news out of south kor north korea, the leader of china meeting, the gas attack in syria which is wrenching to watch and see nothing done. writes this foreign policy team in where is rex tillerson? his statements seem so benign,

so nebulous. we don't have a doctrine to even go on, do we? >> the foreign policy community in washington and across the world was completely baffled by rex tillerson's statement that we have no further comment. the united states has spoken enough about north korea. no, not really, mr. secretary. when the world worries about the ability of north koreans to send a nuclear weapon to japan or south korea or the united states soon enough, we actually do need you to communicate. we know you're not very good atette it with your first few months on the job. get better. practice in front of a mirror and answer questions when they ask you. >> where are these people? >> where are all of them in it's a very good question. it's a very good question. i think right now obviously they understand this is what donald

trump was warned about from barack obama during the transition. he said he can worry about obamacare all you want. north korea is the issue. what has donald trump done? he's continually insulted barack obama by lying about him in a tweet. i don't care whether susan rice ran around screaming the names of everybody in the trump administration and throwing transcripts around in a breitbart dream fantasy. that still would not make donald trump's tweet true. worse than that, he doesn't have barack obama to talk to, the man who probably knows more about this right now and being in his position than anybody else because he was stupid and he attacked him. it's the same thing with germany. as we're trying to figure out how do we get help, if we want to stop what's going on in syria, how do we get the european community, how do we get the world -- he keeps attacking people.

david sanger, he hassi isolated himself. he even insulted the australians. i have to ask you this, donald trump standing alone against the world. do we have any reason to believe this administration is going to get china to stop the north koreans from developing their nuclear program any more than we believe trump can get russians to stop aiding and abetting assad. >> if the chinese were going to stop north korea, they would have done it 20 years ago. they have gone through a calculus they would rather live with the status quo than a collapsed north korea or american troops up on their border once north korea did collap collapse. what struck me yesterday was the absence of any guiding principle around statements early in the day on syria or the rather stunning statement you put up before from secretary tillerson. on syria, on the question of

intervention, of course there trump as a candidate and before that argued for staying out of syria. so it was very hard for me to understand how he would operationalize anything other than a policy of statements condemning syrians for the gas attack. he's never said under what conditions united states would intervene on humanitarian grounds. on north korea you had mr. tillerson making the argument that we've seen plenty about north korea. we haven't. the only thing they have said was in seoul when we were all there about a week and a half, two weeks ago. at that moment he said we'll negotiate with the north koreans after they give up all their nuclear weapons and after they give up all their missiles. that's what the purpose of a negotiation would be. it doesn't tell you what they are going to do now, although they say their policy will be one of greatly increased pressure and then eventual

engagement. >> let's go to capitol hill member of senate foreign relations armed service democrat tim kaine of virginia. goos to see you. >> hi, willie. >> you were on in october a few weeks before the presidential election. you and i and a group around the table talked about what to do with syria. here we are again. we talked about chemical attack. we must hold accountable and protect civilians. you said in october we need a humanitarian zone in syria. is that the best option? is there any more than the united states can be doing? all this with the understanding this problem, children suffocating to death rolling across screens around the world. >> willie, this is horrifying. we ought to be doing a couple of things. first, this administration has to bluntly, vigorously, continuously call out the atrocities of bashar al assad, which are helped in immeasurable ways by russians and iranians.

i think the administration's decision to try to cozy up to russia means they are not willing to call a humanitarian war crime exactly what it is. we've seen this a couple of times in the administration. second, the reason for the humanitarian safe zone was because the u.n. called for cross-border delivery of humanitarian aid in february of 2014 but the world community has done nothing -- nothing to enforce that. you can't have a statement of principle from the international world on something like this and do nothing to enforce it. so while it's gotten more complicated because of the entrance of russians and turkish, kurdish dispute on the border, we should still try to provide a place in syria which people can stay in their own country, which they want to do, safe from the atrocities of bashar al assad or isis. >> we had a leader of syrian opposition and she pretty

passionately made a plea to united states government, mr. trump and you all in the senate to do more. she mentioned grounding the air force, perhaps attacking some of the syrian air force's planes on the ground. as you remember that's a position held by then secretary of state john kerry in 2013. he made the case for that. should the united states attack the syrian air force? >> willie, i voted in august of 2013 that we should use military action to punish bashar al assad for using chemical weapons. i have kids in the military, this is not an easy vote to take. when you have chemical, you cannot use against civilians. that has helped troops on the battlefield be relatively more secure knowing chemical weapons won't be used. somebody violates it, there has to ba consequence. >> including attacking the air force, senator. >> here is what i would do. start with the proposition of providing humanitarian aid.

if anybody tried to screw around with our efforts to provide humanitarian aid, there would have to be military effort to protect the right to follow that u.n. security council resolution. >> isn't it clear bashar al assad is willing to do more than screw around. >> absolutely. >> we made a deal with him he would get rid of chemical weapons in syria. that was arguably the reason we weren't going in and doing something about it but here we are with another attack. >> that's true. we should be prosecuting bashar al assad for war crimes in the hague. we should be doing a lot more than we're doing. the administration won't call a war crime a war crime. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thanks, guys. harold, it is hard to see where this is going to go in washington due to policy issues failing left and right from the president. now you wake up this morning to two major crisis that send a chill down our spines. >> you just left colombia with your father celebrating his birthday as he laid out really

what was a doctrine for the country. here we are celebrating 80th birthday who someone 27 years ago colin powell offered us the powell doctrine. sanger said it well, secretary of state and secretary of defense accomplished ipso many ways, whose words and thoughts and ideas seem to be absent from the conversation, seem to be reactionaries. listen to senator kaine, no overriding philosophy, david said so well not dictating but giving us a sense of where the administration -- more important how america is going to behave. it didn't happen with president obameither. we now enter a phase where y ve leaders around the globe testing this administration, testing this president. here you are in the beginning of a summit with the leader of china and north korea tests at. launches another missile, at least reports suggest. what does this mean? at some point put aside

partisanship, has to be something that emerges. >> framework, a plan, a sense of -- >> a sense of what is guiding us to bring in leadership and experience like your dad, others who may not agree on everything but say how do we agree to do this. otherwise i think these tests around the globe are not going to stop. >> they aren't. they aren't going to end. david halperin, i'll let you take it to david sanger. i've grown up inside the foreign policy community since i was 10 years old. may not agree every time around but i always sort of knew where we were going. i have no idea where this team stands and if this team has the ability to do the job under this president. am i wrong to be completely at a loss as to how they are going to handle these situations and have bad feelings how the president will handle syria. >> with the exception of utterances by nikki haley -- >> not impressive, been there, done that. really?

>> people not given a sense what trump doctrine is on any of these things. david sanger, most of the reporting in the run up to the chinese meeting starting tomorrow says this is the the beginning of the conversation, they don't expect a lot of major announcements t establish framework for future talks. is there urgency given north korea test and what we know about north korea, is there an urgency to come out of the meeting with some joint statement about north korea that is a deterrent or some meaningful road map? >> mark, there certainly is. this is going to be interesting because you have a well tested leader, president xi, a clear doctrine and understanding where he's taking china meeting a new leader and trying to take his measure in president trump. my guess is by the time we're all done with this, north korean issue will have emerged as the number one issue at the summit in mar-a-lago, that the chinese will come out and say, of course

we will help you. i think marginally they will do some things. but it would surprise me greatly if they changed their stripes and did something to truly threaten the regime. until he feels the behavior threatens to interfere with a country his father and grandfather ruled he won't change behavior. he wouldn't have launched his missile last night if he was truly concerned about china's reaction. >> "new york times" david sanger, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> mika, you are right. i mean, obviously you have been around this since you were 10 years old. you grew up around it. your brothers grew up around it. you are right. the foreign policy community is -- >> mute. >> at a loss as to where donald trump is going to be taking this

country over the next four years. there was a bit of that feeling when barack obama was president in that there was no overriding strategy. there was no world view. he had told david rothkopf his overriding view was don't do stupid stuff. and you quietly heard a lot of criticism there. but at least you knew that barack obama being conservative, doing less, leadi from bin was going to be his governing philosophy. with donald trump you're exactly right, we have no idea what's going on in the middle east. we don't know how he's going to -- how his meetings with china is going to go. it makes all of our friends, our allies and our rivals very skittish right now. we can't predict what's moving forward. i will tell you one thing that donald trump is going to find

out over these first two, three months, that it wasn't as easy as it looked on tv. quite frankly, that's something that barack obama figured out. you needed more than a speech to make things happen in washington, d.c. donald trump is learning the same thing. unfortunately he doesn't have the discipline, personal discipline that barack obama did and we're all paying for it as a country and as a world. >> when you lob a lie at someone during the campaign, it may play to your base. but when you bully and lie about people as president of the united states, you hurt our country and you hurt our credibility around the world. still ahead on "morning joe," senator tom cotton joins us as the senate closes in on a vote or neil gorsuch for supreme court justice. at the same time senator murphy, a democrat is talking live on the senate floor. he's been going through the night by himself to hold off

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i'm not going to go back into should al assad be in or out but he is a big hindrance trying to move forward. i have to tell you when you have a leader who will go so far as use chemical weapons on their own people, you have to wonder if that's somebody you can even work with. >> i think the status and longer term status of president assad will be decided by the syrian people. >> i don't know what just -- what did we just hear? what was the message there. >> mixed. >> mixed. it was nothing.

that's our secretary of state and u.n. ambassador. until yesterday that would have been the trump administration's line on assad. have you to wonder if you can work with them. joining us from capitol hill member of the select committee on intelligence and armed services committee republican senator tom cotton of arkansas. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. an important day. let's start with syria. what should be the policy moving forward. >> another horrific gas attack on assad's people. it happened four years ago. i was one of the few republicans in congress at time for removing chemical weapons. now president trump is president not president obama, the policy should be what was state under obama administration but not pursued. bashar al assad must ultimately go. may not be tomorrow, next week,

isis may be more meet threat from syria but we cannot be safe along as assad, iran, russia axis is in charge in syria. >> senator cotton, it's willie geist, how must the declaration of assad be different from roh's declaration. he said that many years ago and many hundreds of thousands of people have died in intervening time. how many times will we see the pictures like we're seeing this morning of children suffocating to death. assad as you well know doesn't respond to strongly worded statements to u.n. resolutions, veiled threats. now is this different? >> you're right, willie, we can go for the resolution. ultimately bashar al assad like iran and russia responds to pressure and confrontation. for some years there was talk of safe zones for civilians. given the situation on the ground i'm not sure that's feasible now. doesn't mean wreh and our allies

can't create unsafe zones for bashar al assad and his forces and allies in syria in addition to bringing more pressure to bear on iran and russia in the middle east and around the world because they are his main patrons. we shouldn't see syria in isolation but as broader struggle of mastery in the middle east. until we can confront those adversaries in the middle east and throughout the world bashar al assad will remain in power. senator what you call a safe zone, is that a euphemism where assad might be attacked by united states. >> i don't want to go into all the details, willie, because some of them may be classified, but it has long been the stated policy of the government that bashar al assad must go. importantly that's what virtually all of our arab allies believe, what millions of arabs throughout syria and middle east believe as well. it's not simply an opinion or policy he should go but a fact on the ground that we should see

bashar al assad will remain in power but millions of syrians and other arabs throughout the middle east north going to accept that and it's going to make it harder for us to achieve our goals in isis and iraq and confronting iran as well. >> senator cotton, harold ford. colleagues saying something similar, we should create safe zones. you said unsafe zones. let's take it a step earlier. are we prepared as a nation to confront militarily if zones are declined or breached by mr. assad? two, what is overarching doctrine you believe not only in syria but how does this administration and how does the senate and congress react to a white house that seemingly does not have foreign policy doctrine that relates to hottest, controversial, pugnacious spots around the globe? >> well, harold, i'm not sure we can create safe zones for civilians on the ground now given entry of not only russia but turkey and large kurdish fighting force but we can make

things less safe for bashar al assad and his forces and his patrons from iran and russia. it part of a broader policy. >> senator, does that mean military action and will it be willing to take military action. forgive me for safe and unsafe dichotomy, does that mean prepared to take military action? >> i think we have to keep all options on the table whether it's military action or classified covert action as well. ultimately we can't be expected to stay safe ourselves from the actions of the middle east as well as bashar al assad stays in power. >> a follow on the question, what is the doctrine towards north korea towards syria? >> well, i think it's probably premature to announce any kind of doctrine. i think most presidents don't develop doctrines, they confront situations on a practical basis trying to protect u.s. interests and defend u.s. aspirations.

i know the administration is undertaking a policy review process through the national security council and i expect that they will be reaching a conclusion ultimately. there are differing voices in the administration. i know that. ultimately president trump is going to have to make the decision. i would counsel him once again that bashar al assad cannot remain in power and america remain safe from threats coming from the middle east. >> senator, bigger picture here, i'm just wondering across the board the president's approval ratings are plummeting. that's not up for debate, the numbers are bad. are you concerned at all that his effectiveness on the world stage is being impacted by his tweets, his behavior, and the apparent disapproval that the american people have for his job in office so far? >> well, poll numbers are more a matter of domestic policy and politics. obviously foreign leaders read them. presidents have accomplished

things to keep our country safe with bad poll numbers. president bush saw his approval ratings dip in the 30, maybe 20% . barack obama less than three months into his tenure. he's got at least 45 months to go. he has a long time to turn around political trouble he faces. more broadly around the world, though, we should be focused on keeping our country safe and defending our interest. if that's the case, then our adversaries and allies will understand that america is once again a force to be reckoned with. >> do you wish he would stop tweeting? >> the president can tweet and reach the american people in a way very few others have. presidents adopt new techniques, sometimes i agree with what he says, sometimes i don't. that's true whether he says it through twitter or an interview. >> senator tom cotton, thank you for being on. coming up john mccain does what john mccain does best, tells the truth. we'll play for you the mavericks

latest comments. later reince priebus dodges rumors and infighting while trying to keep the white house running. all in a day's work for the chief of staff who is under siege from all sides. andy card who held that job under george w. bush joins us live with his take on the trump administration so far. "morning joe" is coming right back. we've done well in life, with help from our advisor, we made it through many market swings. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back... not when we've got so much more to give

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senate majority leader mitch mcconnell vowing president trump's supreme court nominee neil gorsuch will be confirmed this week as democrats try to continue to block that from happening. final debate on gorsuch nomination began yesterday. with whip count not looking like it will reach 60 votes, senator mcconnell will most likely invoke nuclear option to break a filibuster. republican senator john mccain didn't hold back when talking about what's at stake. >>. >> once this is done the senate will be a better place because this lingering -- >> i would like to meet that

idiot. i would like to meet that numb skull that would say that after 150 years the senate functioned well they would like to blow that up. whoever says that is a stupid idiot, has not been here and seen what i've been through and how we were able to avoid that on several occasions. they are stupid and don't -- they have deceived their voters because they are so stupid. >> well -- >> joe, any additions to that? no, i think we're good. >> i'm putting him -- as harry truman would say, i'm putting him down as an undecided. you know, gene robinson, boy, you know it gets tiresome you hear democrats say republicans did this. republicans say, the democrats did that. i mean, we can go back to bork,

miguel estrada, merrick garland the most recent of the point is at what point does this all end and when do we get back to where we were when ruth bader ginsburg got 96 votes. kennedy got 97 votes? >> i don't think we get back there for a while, quite frankly. i think most democrats are calculating that if they don't trigger or force mitch mcconnell to trigger the option this time, it will surely happen next time with the next nomination that will change the ideological ballot court and will also disappoint the democratic base, so i think they are going to stick to their guns. i think the republicans are going to stick to their guns. it's a different place now. the senate used to be a place where there were a bunch of liberal republicans, bunch of

conservative democrats. people did cross party lines. that seems like a long time ago now. it wasn't necessarily that long ago in years but it seemed like an awful long time ago. we are where we are. it's a much more partisan, polarized time. i think the senate ultimately is going to reflect that. >> so mark halperin, is this what every trump nominee is going to look like? are we going to see this happen three or four times over the next four years. >> once they change the rule, they are not going to change it back will i think the temptation for the president, for conservatives around him is going to be to nominate someone more conservative than judge gorsuch and to assume they can hold all the republicans. this is an incremental change in some ways. harold, this is kind of the last step. once he changes supreme court nominees, the senate is more like the house. it's just about a majority rule. >> you begin to see a parity develop between the two places.

senate thought of upper body for obvious reasons. i think mccain said it best. i don't know how you stop this, once you turn this faucet on. you know, one of the things that democrats -- one of the lessons just narrowly you should take from this exercise is that i don't remember during the garland nomination, someone can correct me if i'm wrong, there were ads run by people who work for him and others saying how his decisions are ones that speak for america, a man with such decency and integrity, perhaps that should be used. there's an acceptance we're outflanked here. we lost the election. i don't like either side's approach here. it's unfortunate we are where we are. if they do exercise the option, i couldn't agree more. i don't know how we undo what will be disastrous for the overall body of politics. >> all right, harold. thank you very much. up next, is the trump white house ready to handle the foreign policy crisis unfolding on the world stage right now.

we're going to talk to the man who delivered the news to the president on september 11th, 2001, that america was under attack. former chief of staff to george w. bush andy card is next. you do all this research

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[ [ screams ] ] [ shouting ] brace yourself! this is crazy! [ tires screeching ] whoo!

boom baby! rated pg-13. [ screams ] >> who is it that tells him the hard truth. that is you? >> i do and almost everyone that surrounds himself with. that doesn't mean -- i think we're in a very unique time where noise equals in a lot of people's perception advocacy. i fundamentally disagree with that. >> joining us now former chief of staff to george w. bush ann card. here on set author chris whipple. his new book is "the gate keepe keepers, how white house chief of staff define every

presidency." we were just talking before we came on air and i think the question is does the president want an adult in the room, especially as it pertains to his chief of staff. >> he certainly doesn't want anybody that will ll him the hard truth. i'm sure his daughter gives him the hard truth, but i know for a fact that few others around him do. andy card, he doesn't want to hear the hard truth. if you have somebody that's running the white house. how do i know? in the middle of a crisis early on, i say, donald, who do you talk to? when you're in the middle of a crisis who is the person who comes in and talks and says no. his answer was nobody. he said, i'm that guy. well, we're now at 34%. maybe you can't build a skyscraper by your self and maybe you can't run the damn white house by your self. >> andy. >> well, first of all, it's

important for the people around the president to find the courage to speak truth to power, even if the president doesn't want to hear it or doesn't welcome it. so i think it's important for them to speak truth to power. i think president trump is coming to recognize that's very important, especially with this international crisis where there is one on virtually every continent. there's something going on that's a challenge to the president. he has to listen to h.r. mcmaster, pay attention to jim mattis when it comes to these challenges. has he to have a better relationship with secretary of state. he has to invite people to speak truth to him so he can better understand the consequences of his decisions rather than just the policy of his decisions. policies are easy to dream up. it's the consequence of the policy that's most important to understand so that you modify it en you implement it. >> chris, as you look at the history of chief of staff in the white house, how different is this chief of staff? so far, obviously early on, how

different is the role reince priebus, andy card, mcdonagh, leon panetta or jim baker? >> what i learned talking to all 17 living white house chiefs before priebus, every president has learned, sometimes the hard way, you cannot govern effectively without empowering a white house chief of staff to execute your agenda and listen to him or her when they tell you what you don't want to hear. there's no indication that trump wants a person like that in the oval office. there's no indication he wants to listen to hard truths. he obviously prefers his own facts, as we all know. that way lies disaster. these guys are the difference -- often the difference between success and disaster in every presidency, and we can just go back to barack obama's red line in syria. >> right. >> he took a walk -- famously took that walk with denis

mcdonough, walked for an hour, came back to the oval office and obama made that shocking to some people decision not to enforce the red line. he's often the only other person in the room when history is made. >> andy card, would you agree with us? especially that way lies disaster, chris's point here? and then again, the sound bite that we bumped in with, with all due respect to ivanka trying her best with levels she has experience in, she's not qualified to talk about syria, chinese leader's visit and the consequences of how that goes. is she? who is? who in this administration stands up to the president and says things that actually have consequences, that might even have them fired if need be? who has the guts? >> well, so far i don't think i can identify anybody that i would put in that category.

you have to have the courage not to seek the pleasure of the president even though you serve at the president's pleasure. you've got to tell the president what you think he needs to know to be able decisions, and, yes. there's all kinds of decisions that a president makes but if a president is making an easy decision, they're wasting their time. the decisions should be tough. but the ones around national security and the protecting of the united states of america and its people, those are the toughest ones to make. so it's really important that the president have a chief of staff, i believe, who can walk in, shut the door and say, if you can't listen to me, this is another person you should be listening to. invite this person in to come talk to you, and invite him to speak candidly or her to speak candidly with you. the chief of staff is really one that makes sure that the president is not making an easy decision, because he shouldn't think they're easy. they are tough decisions and the president needs a chief of staff that actually gets him ready to

make a tough decision and can be mad at the chief of staff. that's okay. a chief of staff has to accept that and have to know they serve at the pleasure of the president for the time being, but they do not do the job to seek the president's pleasure. >> go ahead, mark. mark, go ahead. >> andy, to you first and then chris. in what ways is reince priebus the ideal cheief of staff? >> first of all, reince priebus is a very solid, grounded person. did an outstanding job leading the republican national committee and republican party. he nknows washington. not necessarily a complete insider. he came from the outside to help people understand what was going on inside and the inside is to recognize what's going on outside. so i think he's got the right skills. i'm just not sure he's been empowered by the president to keep the discipline necessary for the president to do his job, and the discipline is about access to the president, it's taking space in the president's head and it's taking time that the president can't afford to

give. the chief of staff's job is to manage that presidential head space and measure the time that the president needs to take to make these tough decisions that have to the made. you don't want a president who is making impulsive decisions. you want him to make an informed decision. especially where there's a significant consequence to what the decision might be. >> how is reince priebus like the most successful's recent white house chiefs of staff? >> andy's a diplomat. truth is if you oppose everything donald trump standards for then this is the white house staff for you. rookie mistake after rookie mistake. no one would accept immigration without vetting it with the departments in charge. it's been mistake after mistake after mistake. priebus is clearly no jim baker or leon panetta. what you really need, and trump of all people, needs more than perhaps any other predecessor is

a grown-up in the room who understands capitol hill. who understands what jim baker used to call the -- the centrifuge where policy and politics come together. you have to be able to execute the president's agenda and tell him what he doesn't want to hear. >> you know, chris, it's interesting you were talking about barack obama. making the decision that he made on syria on the red line. and it's so interesting. you had official washington quietly grumbling for eight years, barack obama always thought he was the smartest guy in the room, that when it came to foreign policy he didn't talk to his secretary of state the way he should. he didn't talk to his national security adviser the way he should, th he whittled it down it was barack obama, ben rhodes and sometimes as you just said, denis mcdonough. interestingly enough, the last president blew apart the -- the white house analytical construct we've used for a very long time.

is it the case that we've just gone from bad in that situation to worse? >> well -- excuse me -- i think that, you know, obama decided after the low point of his presidency in 2011 that he had no choice in his mind, but to cover through executive orders. mcdonough was extremely effective at doing that, i think, for better or worse, with the help of john podesta, i think they were able to, the iran deal, the opening to cuba, on a number of fronts they were able to -- they were able to make what they regard as progress. >> right, but, chris, i'm talking about foreign policy, though. i'm talking about using ben rhodes instead of john kerry. sometimes talking to denis mcdonough instead of your national security advisers susan rice. was that not the way he ran his foreign policy? >> that's the way foreign policy

has been run since the days of nixon and h.r. haldeman. the fact is power resides in the pous and has, as you know, since those days, and as erskine boles put it to me, that little cabal in the west wing that controls the information that goes to the president, information is power. and it's been true for decades now that that's where the decisions are made on the key questions in foreign policy. >> all right. andy card, thank you very much, and chris whipple, thank you as well. the new book is "the gatekeepers ": how the white house chiefs of staff define every presidency". much more ahead on the two major foreign policy crises facing the white house right now in syria and north korea -- plus -- >> if you watched the democrats now, the anger, the anger and hatred, and they're trying to figure out where did all of

these people came that voted for donald trump? >> donald trump takes stock in his election win. and sizes up the democrats opposition. we're back in a moment. my insurance rates are probably gonna double.

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two major foreign policy crises developing right now. north korea launched another ballistic missile.

the fourth this year alone. and -- an apparent chemical weapons attack on the syrian people killing noornkill ing more than 80 people, many children. at what point are thee sarin gas attacks too much to ignore. the president is waking up to ever-sinking, plummeting poll numbers. under water on just about every key issue. it is more than a blow to his ego, joe. the likes of kim joon un and bashar al assad have access to these poll numbers, too, and most opposition forces feast on weakness. and weakness is what the numbers are saying. is it not? >> no doubt about it, mika, whether an enemy, ally abroad, political opponent at home or ally at home you look at these numbers and this is a president undercut by bad decisions, low poll numbers. it's a real crisis in the white house politically. >> so on this important day,

welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, april 5th. we have with us in your political analysts for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin, senior writer on national security for the "wall street journal," shane harris, al with joe, willie and me. the leader of the free world is hovered under 40% approval ratings, just months into his administration. gallup daily tracking poll has the president at 39%. the investors business daily poll has the president at 34%. with 56% disapproving. and the latest quinnipiac poll has trump at 35%. the quinnipiac poll note by comparison george w. bush's lowest, 28% in their poll, came nearly eight years into office, two unpopular wars, a housing crisis that drove a deep recession. president trump is under water on most key issues right now. 64% disapprove of his performance on health care.

57% disapprove of his handling on immigration issues. 48% disapprove his handling on the economy. 61% disapprove of his handling on environment policy. 58% disapprove of his handling on foreign policy. 49% disapprove of his handling on terrorism. >> mark halperin, how bad do these numbers impact the president's ability to get anything done, whether it's overseas or at home? >> it's tough. we talk all the time about how low poll numbers diminish a sway with congress, but these foreign leaders are aware of how these numbers impact the president's ability to deliver on things. how much room it gives him to maneuver and you look at past presidents as was tsuggested before, numbers like this usually comes after you alienate a number of people. at a time facing incoming from around the world a big summit thursday and friday in florida with the president of china, he

is facing a lot of tough decisions without a lot of leverage and these poll numbers give him less leverage, obviousl rher than more. >> and shane what we're looking at also is a number of different foreign policy crises. the questions surrounding the white house itself. the questions that erupted yesterday over susan rice. do these poll numbers make a difference in the big picture? >> oh, a think they definitely do. these are all converging at one time. as mark was saying kind of put trump in a box how he can respond. the north korea nuclear issue he inherited from obama. obama warned him about that. the syrian issue there. what did he do? criticized the obama administration for its weak stance. he is the chief policy official. it's up to him. though his poll numbers are low that doesn't change the necessity for him to respond forcefully. >> you can't overstate, the numbers itself. stump speech a candidate for

many, many months consisted of him solely pulling out a piece of paper and reading poll numbers. this stuff gets to him. he may become obsessed with the number, cite another poll that has him higher. there's no good news. 35% is what you see at the end of a bad presidency. 52% that say the economy is good, even in there 66% of the people say president obama gets credit for the good economy. >> the two things he cares good about, winning and strength and these numbers don't reflect either. >> very bad numbers to wake up to. president trump is nor pmore po than his own part. 27% to 21%. a 14-point negative swing twr t from two weeks ago. when you look at a generic ballots house gop is in the

worst position ever for a majority party at this point. democrats are also unpopular. their disapproval/approval split is 57% to 34% but they're having a bit of a an upswing. top party leaders are unpopular as well. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell, nancy schumer upside-down in favorability polling. the republican party is in a very different position. >> yeah. they're in trouble, the republican party. in donald trump thinks he can somehow blame this on paul ryan or the house he's completely wrong. they're looking straight at him. their numbers are collapsing because's him, because there's no leadership in the republican party. and this is very, very bad. not just for trump. it's bad for paul ryan and it's bad for the house. at the end of the day everybody looks back to the person who's supposed to be running show and it's donald trump. and the news, mark halperin, is

all bad. if you're working on the hill, why would you do anything for donald trump? >> republicans have been front and center since centers november and more since january. paul ryan, a big plat farm, mitch. connell, able to lay out their agenda on all sorts of are things. the president is mostly front and center but this makes it difficult for republicans to want to follow the president, as you said and makes it difficult for the president to say i want to work side-by-side with republican leaders because they less popular than they is. >> the weak poll numbers comes at the president faces major issues. yesterday, north korea launched another missile that crashed into the sea of japan. the medium-range missile did not pose an immediate threat to the continental united states. it's the regime's fourth test just this year. and comes as the u.s. and south korea conduct their annual joint

military drills. in a statement, secretary of state rex tillerson said -- the "financial times" said the u.s. is ready to deal with the north korea nuclear threat asking if china is not going to solve north korea, we will. the president is hosting chinese president jinping at mar-a-lago starting tomorrow and the white house says north korea will be a itch maer topic of discussion. >> let's bring into the conversation gordon chang. a columnist for "the daily beast" and author of "the coming collapse of china" and "nuclear showdown: north korea takes on the world." thanks for being with us. the backdrop of this missile test that you've written about in your books is the meetingi i

between president trump and the premiere of china. what should the posture be at this point given what's happening in north korea are towards china? >> i think that the united states and the white house announcement yesterday was essentially the clock has run out on north korea. i think that the position of president trump when he speaks to chinese president xi jinping is the clock has almost run out on china. china complied critical ballistic missile and probably technology. the plans probably had a chinese origin. i think president trump needs to ask how the north koreans got that. that's the way the conversation should start. >> and so what happens, what flows from there? if president trump effectively accuses china of aiding aabetting north korea in its efforts to get a nuclear weapon what does that do to the american/chinese relationship? >> certainly not a good one. at some point we have to confront these issues.

china also helped the north korea nuclear weapons program as well. we have not had these conversations with china, because we didn't want to upset chinese leaders. i think it's important we face these issues and get answers from china. if we don't, wee letting the chinese people know we're afraid of them n. your latest piece for the adaily beast" why playing with -- most meetings and chinese leaders planned well in advance and highly scripted. this summit is anything but. more important since richard nixon went to beijing four decades ago. he should ignore convention, disrupt settled sino u.s. ties and raise tensions. americans believe good relations are a nation with friendly relations. that's wrong. good relations are those that protect america's interests and those of its allies and friends. bad actors never want to be

opposed, confronted or contained. they also promote cordial reships with victims and bystanders to get their aim. even if not by itself a strategy at this late date going wrong from the american perspective in the florida meeting ending in smiles talking of mutual respect and continued chinese bad acts jep diopardizing the u.s. and t international community. how big is the threat from north korea right now? people have mocked the faid missile tests over the yearsing mocked the leader. we know the problems internally in the country, but how serious is this threat? >> right now, north korea has three missiles that can hit the lower 48 states. they either haven't been tested or tested at full range but are based on proven technologies and probably work. they didn't mate a nuke to them yet. it's has probably four years down the road. we have to remember even today the north koreans can take a crude atomic device,

disassembli disassembling it, smuggle it across and if they wanted to attack the u.s. that's probably the way they could do it. they're a threat because the leader has a throw threshold of risk. he has unstable of a situation and may decide to do things that really would stun us. >> high stakes at mar-a-lago tomorrow. gordon chang, thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, president trump is slamming the obama administration for inaction in syria, although he advised that exact path just a few years ago. we're going to talk to the leader of the syrian opposition about what, if anything, the u.s. can do. plus -- republican senator john thune is standing by. his take on the supreme court fight that's drawing even deeper divisions on capitol hill. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast. it's not how fast you mow... ...it's how well you mow fast. woooh!

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at least 83 people are

reported dead including 25 children following a is a suspected chemical weapons attack in syria. we warn you carefully the images are extremely disturbing from this story. at least 350 more were said to have been wounded in this attack that happened at the rebel-held city of idlib. a top syrian military officer denied he use nany chemical weapons. russian media says it was a government air strike that hit an alleged rebel chemical weapons stash. the u.n. security council will meet this morning at 10:00 a.m. to discuss this attack. in a statement president trump condemned the reprehensible and intolerable attack shifti ining blame to his predecessor saying in part this -- these heinous actions by the bashar al assad regime are a

consequence of the past administration's weakness and irresolution. president obama said in 2012 he would establish a red line against the use of chemical weapons and then did nothing. >> joinings now, a member of the syrians high negotiations committee. let me begin from you. from your perspective, what happened yesterday? the pictures shot across the world horrifying everyone who saw them of children suffocating to death, foaming at the mouth. what happened in syria? >> the testimonies are very clear. russian plane, a russian-made plane, maybe piloted by a syrian, but it was -- shelled those areas and children, women, were the most attacked, those who suffered most, who received those attacks and who, in fact, died because they were more vulnerable and suffocate more easily than man.

it was an attackn women and children it was an attack on civilians. not on any military targets there. we do not no e that any reasonable legitimate military target was hit. all we know that that these civilians have died in the dozens, and that it is an aircraft that is a russian-made aircraft that bombed the area with chemical weapons. we do not know clearly if these are sarin gas or chlorine. these are banned weapons, banned by the agreement that was concluded in 2013 under u.n. resolutions and the obama administration with russia that syria had dismantled entirely its chemical weapons arsenal and is now, will not use them again. well, it has used them again and again against children and women. >> well, the world community has done, as you know, unfortunately, tragically more

than anybody else, the world community, western democracies, the united states, they've done absolutely nothing, while 500,000 syrians have died. what would you have the united states our allies in europe and anyone else who wants to be part of a coalition of the willing to stop these attacks against civilians? what would you have the western democracies do? >> look, i think the syrians are watching and waiting to see if any leader in this world, in particularly president trump is going to go beyond statements of outrage. we've had enough of those over six years, and failure to do anything about it. now, i think first of all, the syrian regimes air force should be grounded. never allowed to fly again. and i think if president trump

can speak to president putin in russia, who says he wants a political exit now, an exit strategy from syria, wants a political settlement, maybe he can ask that he delivers that, that he delivers assad. assad should not fly iranian forces who support assad who actually fight for assad, because assad has almost lost his army, no military capacity of his own anymore. while he were maybe rein in the iranians, push them out, push them backwards so they are not fighting syrians everywhere in the country and encouraging jihad igee ha haud gee haudism, jihad ism. can we see that this is the trap that assad has put to the international community?

that president trump is now seeing assad could stay? these statements are a blank check for assad to continue and how the syrians yesterday read the attack. >> thank you so much for being with us. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> so did you ever think you'd see a president who knows how much concrete and rebar you can lay down in a single day? believe me, i know. i know. we're a nation of builders, and it was about time we had a builder in the white house. right? >> president trump -- >> we've actually learned, mika, that knowledge, that working knowledge that gets you to 34% in two months. something we never knew. who woo somewhere ever believed we would have a president has would so mishandle the opportunity he had that he'd be at 34% in a couple months. shocking. by the way, if we find that part

of the speech, we'll bring that to you. >> okay. back where he's most comfortable with builders. that's what you saw there. but first -- senator ron johnson joins us live as the place where he works may be about to change forever. ♪ you might not ever just stand there, looking at it. you may never even sit in the back seat. yeah, but maybe you should. ♪ (laughter) ♪ are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool? try zyrtec® it's starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®.

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in a moment we'll talk to the chairman of the commerce committee. senator john thune, but first bill karins has a check on the severe weather in the southeast. >> bill? >> mika, things getting serious in a haury. first tornado watch of the day issued continuing through the afternoon and this evening. this tornado watch encompasses much of the florida panhandle, alabama and georgia, up until 1:00 eastern ti, noon central. the first tornado warning of the day. this is atlanta. the storm heading in your general direction. the airport is expected to be shut down probably at least a half hour, maybe an hour as the storm rolls through, but this is where the suspected tornado is. right in this hook here. a bad sign. already getting storms like this, this early in the day. here's the map showing the severe risk area. 55 million people at risk and the concern is not just tornadoes. which will probably have dozens of, but strong, long-track tornadoes on the ground for a long period of time.

the area of greatest concern, alabama and central georgia and up here in tennessee. the hash line, the greatest chance of a tornado. central areas of tennessee through the heart of georgia. again, already watching very strong storms and a possible tornado just in the west of atlanta tracking active storms and potential damage throughout the day here on msnbc and "morning joe." we'll be right back. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it.

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because of a lingering fight -- >> i would like to meet that idiot, that numbskull that would say that. after at least 100 years where the senate funked pretty well they think it would be a good idea to blow it up. whoever says that is a stupid idiot who has not been here and seen what i've been through and

how we were able to avoid that on several occasions. and -- and they're stupid and don't -- and they've deceived their voters, because they're so stupid. >> well, there you go. joining you now from capitol hill, chairman of the senate commerce committee and senate republican conference senator john thune of south dakota. senator good to see you, as always. >> good morning. >> you could hear for yourself what senator john mccain said about the possibility of using the nuclear option. you say you prefer to avoid it. is there any chance of that at this point? >> entirely up to democrats at this point. unprecedented use of the filibuster to try to stop a supreme court nominee. a 230-year history of confirming supreme court justices by and up and down simple majority vote. this can be avoided, entirely avoided, if the democrats would decide to just work with us. there is bipartisan support for

this judge. four democrats publicly announced for him. we could get to, you know, a comedy here, reach a solution, enible to confirm this judge without the drama surrounding the discussion right now. >> that's probably not going to happen. do you recognize that at this point, senator? >> i think the democrats are pretty bent on moving forward with the filibuster what they're base expects them to do, limiting our options in terms of getting this judge on the bench. >> joe? >> obviously, i think you'd understand politically, john, why the democratic base would want that, after merrick garland didn't get an up or down vote. republicans did it to democrats. now democrats will do this to republicans, they might say. where does this all end? any hopes of ever having a bipartisan review of a justice for the supreme court? >> i think what comes out of this, joe, is pretty much restoring the way it's always

been. it's always been 51. until 2003, when democrats in senate decided to filibuster appellate court nominees under president bush, there was never a precedent when it came to judges to use of a judicial filibuster. this is sort of uncharted ground until the last decade or so. i think what happens here and of course democrats did it in 2013 with appellate and lower court judges, that principle now applies to supremes but a principle in place a long time. so majority, simple majority vote, up and down vote on judges probably will be, i expect, the practice and the pattern going forward. >> senator, gene robinson. i wanted to change the subject a minute, if i could. you're seeing that the horrible images from syria. at should the united states be doing and what do you understand secretary tillerson's plan to be

or his, how he's seeing the situation? >> well, gene, it's a, you know, six years late to the discussion here, unfortunately, and what we've seen, these images are horrific. i think a couple things. one, i still believe assad's got to go. the only thing that will bring stability to that region and secondly, a lot of discussion on your show already about safe zones or unsafe zone. the logistics is significant, but i think we have to leave options on the table. i believe there has to be a credible threat of the use of force in the circumstances in order to get people to the table. and finally i think there's got to be some meaningful, credible international engagement when it comes to humanitarian needs. i know the u.n. security council is about to meet but i hope we'll see some different view about how they intend to approach this issue, and how we can build international coalition support to provide some relief and rescue for the syrian people. at a minimum, on a humanitarian

level we've got to do that. >> sounds like a position, but is that the administration's position? have you heard that from the administration? >> well, i think their position perhaps is slightly different, or perhaps more nuanced than that, but i just think the united states has got to -- we have to exercise leadership in this region of the world, because it's important not only from the humanitarian crisis that exists there today but also we have vital national security interesting that are evident there, and obviously isis continues to operate in that region. we have a vested interest in playing a meaningful role and a role that helps bring about stability, peace and hopefully an end to these just atrocious acts of terror committed on assad's own people. >> mark halperin. >> the united stat wants a range of things from the chinese in this meeting down in florida on trade, on currency, on military expansion in the south china sea. on north korea. what can the president do in

either making threats against china or offering china anything to try to get cooperation from china on the issues the u.s. wants movement on? >> i think, mark, that the levers we have, of course, there are financial and economic levers. there are in the area of cyber and electronic warfare. those types of levers. obviously, we hathaad missiles defense in that region. more than anything else the president needs to weigh in and ask hard questions of the chinese about what they're doing to assist and enable this kind of behavior from north korea, and i think that that's one issue that's got to be addressed. a lot of other economic issues, trade, i.p. protections, et celt ra that oug et cetera. china's enablings that behavior and our options in response to it. >> given all the problems the united states has china now, is

hosting the president down at a resort in florida the right symbolism as far as people in south dakota would be concerned? >> i think that's basically this administration has their, this is the place i think they take leaders and from the chinese perspective, their president and his team view this as symbolic and important, because this is where president trump conductses a lot of his business. so i think it's appropriate. this is where the president decides to do important work like this. obviously. every president has a different style when it comes to how they address these issues, but i hope it's a productive meeting and a meaningful meeting and hope to get some results. >> senator john thune, thank you so much. always great seeing you. appreciate you being on the show. >> thanks, joe. great to be with you all. all right. so, gene, let me ask you about this whole mar-a-lago thing. i'm not talking about any of the ethical questions that may be attached to it. certainly we saw real problems

the first week when they -- had a conversation out on the port aco-with dinner gifts around listening but if we move beyond that and secure the grounds, i think i remember nixon meeting, bringing brezhnev to san clemente if i'm not mistaken. to his home. i think i have that right. i don't have any concern. if he's more comfortable at mar-a-lago and that to him feels like a home field advantage, i don't necessarily have problems with him meeting world leaders there. what about you? am i missing something? should we move him -- because i always remember mika's dad opened up relations with china at their farm house in mclean, virginia and there was sort of this homey, relaxed feel to it. >> yeah. i really don't care if the meeting is at mar-a-lago or at the white house or whatever. the question is, is there a

policy? you know, is there a negotiation that's going to go on? you know, so i'm kind of at this basic stuff. if they could do -- you know if there's a policy on north korea, or a policy on economic issues or on climate change or on whatever, there are a lot of things to talk about with china, and so if there are policies, they can talk at mar-a-lago, if they can get something done. you know? putting the ethical issues aside which is hard to do. >> easier to secure our little farm house in mclean as opposed to nasa property in -- >> for example, you don't have your discussion on north korea on the patio surrounded by guests, by -- >> i'm all for the president being comfortable and this great to court friendly countries. i review what someone said in 2015, when barack obama had a state dinner. i'd get them a mcdonald's

hamburger and get down to work because you can't continue to devalue the chinese currency. give him a very double, probably a double-sized big mac. that was donald trump in 2015 saying you shouldn't coddle the chinese, get down to work. a big symbol to give him this place of honor. the president gracious in public but tough in private? >> that leads to gene robinson's question. forget about the location of it. what's the policy? we really don't know what the policy is. he's been jagged on china. i think more so than any country during the campaign, and then during -- during the transition, and what's his policy on north korea? and -- rex tillerson. talk about what rex tillerson said yesterday. one of the most dumbfounding statements i've ever seen where you have "the" greatest crisi that america faces across the globe and you have a secretary of state who first of all

doesn't really take questions from the press. says he's uncomfortable talking to the press. shuns the press. and even in his statements says the united states has talked about north korea enough. we have no further comment. that's -- you know, mark, that's what a dad says to his child when the child talks back. >> maybe he's speaking to donald trump. >> the uncharitable skeptical view among -- this is amateur hour. the president and his team don't really have their act together. in is another view we'll see i think in spades tomorrow and friday. this president will do things differently across the board. we've not done well in our relationship with china over the last three presidents. let's see within the next two days with his style he can introduce different result. >> go ahead, willie. >> a perfect distillation of

what we've talked about in the last few months. the difference between campaigning to be president and being president. say slogans, talk about going to mcdonald's with the premier of china when campaigning, attacking somebody else. now president trump has at his doorstep a crisis in north korea with testing and crisis in syria and their not hypothetical crises. not things he can spout off about. he needs a policy and he needs solutions on these and right now hasn't expressed either of those. >> and we have, mika, a great opportunity, if you take what mark halperin said, for any president, that's what's so frustrating here. look at the last three presidents. the policy towards china, they failed. on all -- all three of them. look at our policy towards russia. over the last seral presidents. they've en treated as suckers. vladimir putin has played them for suckers. you look at the middle east. it's been an absolute disgrace. george bush doing too much. barack obama, not doing enough.

there is this remarkable opportunity for an american leader to step forward with a well thought out nuanced foreign policy, but all we get are tweets, sound bites and stupid statements attacking the last president when, yes, you and i will be glad to attack the last president on his syria policy. everybody will. that's not donald trump's job in a time of crisis. it's to tell us where do we go from here? >> and it impacts us on the world stage in a real consequential way. i just did an interview with a german newspaper a few minutes ago. and the questions i got were staggering, and really gave a window into what we look like right now, because of this president. up next, the president and his charts. >> since taking office, i've signed one action after another to eliminate job-killing

regulations that stand in our way. i had a chart. is that chart around here someplace? could you bring that chart, please? do you mind? let me see that chart. this was just something. this is sort of incredible. that's so beautiful. >> oh, my god. president trump breaks out an oversized flow chart at one -- not just one, but two events yesterday. "vanity fair" said it was like "a bad episode of veep. >> mika, i've got a chart here. look. i've got a chart too. look. can i show it to you? >> sure. let me see. >> can you see it? >> uh-huh. what's it say? >> it's trump approval ratings. >> oh, the big arrow going downward? >> yeah. starts at 50% and then goes down here. maybe he needs to do more than charts, exactly. >> maybe he needs to look at that chart. cnbc's brine sullivan joins us next to explain what the president was trying to show us. we're back in a moment. hey allergy muddlers

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>> phenomenal. ♪ >> phenomenal. ♪ >> phenomenal. >> those things are so cute! i cute, i like them. president trump is taking credit for the economy, but it's not his economy that he's taking credit for. most voters think it's the last administration that did all the heavy lifting. 52% say the american economy is excellent or good. 45% say it's not so good or poor. 66% say former president obama is more responsible than president trump for the phenomenal state of the economy. remember menonenoc? even republicans agree. miller and jen over there have no idea what i'm talking about. let's bring in cnbc's brian sullivan. >> do you remember that? >> i also remember statler and waldorf. >> exactly. okay.

so the president hosted a town hall meeting for top ceos. how'd that go? >> it went well. we've spoken to some of them on cnbc. at this point we've had a lot of meetings. everybody agrees we need tax reform, we need infrastructure investments. we all get that. in fact many democrats want infrastructure, republicans want infrastructure. many democrats want corporate tax reform. many republicans want corporate tax reform. here's what i'm saying. if nothing gets done on corporate tax reform or infrastructure, it is the equivalent of missing a 27-yard field goal to win the super bowl in perfect conditions. everything is there. if we don't get it done, you should retire. not the president, but the kicker. >> "financial times" front page. yesterday was equal pay day. >> women are still not -- they're still not in force in the highest levels of wall street. you could probably say that in the highest levels of any industry actually. that report focused on wall street. 22.5% of senior management jobs filled by women, which is not enough. listen, now, i know my wife is

watching and maybe my daughter is watching and my mother is watching. women make better investors, by the way. statistics show that. >> right. >> more of them should be brought in, come in. >> i know. is the president creating an environment for this? i know he's been holding a lot of meetings. ivanka is pushing on this issue. mark halperin, has he moved the meter in any way? >> this is an area where there is jaw boning and symbolism. i don't know that they'll support any executive actions or legislation but he's a republican who believes in the private sector doing this stuff on its own with some encouragement. we'll see if that's enough. >> i love what ivanka is doing with the child care thing. when you look at labor force participation rates, the lack of affordable child care. i'm blessed and lucky to have a good job and my wife had a great job. she left her position a year and a half ago. it was left for her in a way. you try to struggle with child care. you know, you do the math. >> it's almost impossible. >> it depends on where you live. in this area, if you make -- if

you don't make 60 grand, it's almost not worth working because of taxes and child care, you break even so what the hell is the point. >> you can't do it. gene. >> i was going to say the same thing. so legislation, i mean, you know, let's do something about it. >> i don't see much yet. i appreciate ivanka's efforts. joining us from capitol hill, chairman of the senate homeland security committee, republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin. joe? >> senator, thanks so much for being with us. it's always great talking to you. let's talk really quickly about syria. we've had people wringing their hands for six years saying it's too hard to do anything in syria. we have seen day in and day out the results of america leading from behind. what does this country and what do our allies do to stop the suffering in syria? >> first of all, we have to defeat isis. in order to do that we have to answer a couple of questions. who is going to provide the primary ground force to do that.

once we defeat isis in raqqah, who's going to hold the ground? turkey doesn't want kurdish troops to do it so we have to go to turkey and say, okay, if you don't want the kurds to do it, how are you going to defeat isis in raqqah. so that's the first step. then change the conditions on the ground. you might actually put some pressure and have bases where you can enforce no-fly zones. the first step is defeating isis. >> mark halperin. >> senator, on north korea, i'm wondering if you could brief the president as he heads into his meeting with the chinese president tomorrow and friday, what would you tell him to focus on regarding north korea? >> i think one of the smartest pieces i've read on this amongst many bad options from bret stephens in "the wall street journal" talked about regime change. give the chinese the option. change the regime to one you like or we're going to do it for you. there's peril no matter what we do. what we can start doing is offering asylum to members of

that regime. we need to put sanctions on individuals in that regime so it really is in the end about regime change. what we're seeing in north korea is what happens when you get somebody like gadhafi to give up his nuclear weapons and then you go in there and destroy him. so there's some real consequences to previous actions. >> what are the u.s. options to foster regime change if the chinese won't do it? >> again, you do offer asylum to members of that. you slap on sanctions. again, there aren't very many good options whatsoever. one thing people aren't talking about is what we really need to do in terms of hardening our own defense against emp. i know they're a ways away from icm capabilities but may not be that far away from satellite possibilities. so this is something we must deal with. let's start with the chinese and see what the results are this

weekend. >> gene. >> senator, we kind of already do the things that you're suggesting we do, though. we essentially try to isolate north korea to the extent we'd be happy to welcome any defectors, but again, how do you foster regime change in a rogue nuclear nation? >> again, you try and get the chinese to do it so they get a regime to their liking. that's about the only pressure i can think of. gene, this has been going on for decades, nobody has had success doing it. again, take a look at what has happened in the past where regime's have given up their nuclear weapons. ukraine has been invaded, gadhafi is dead so what is the lesson that iran and north korea learned from that? we understand these things have consequences. previous actions. there are no good solutions, i understand that, but this is about as good as we can do right now because military action is pretty unappealing. >> well, i mean military option is basically impossible, i would say. and so is there any other sort of diplomatic coalition that

could be put together? i'm struggling to hear a policy that's going to get us somewhere. >> yeah, gene, because there's a reason this is a problem because there's no easy solutions. the best solution is trying to engage china to be a responsible actor. if that's putting pressure on china in some way, shape or form, we have other problems with china as well. you want to really go back to the root. we want to be stronger here economically. we need to stop hollowing out our military so people around the world start respecting us because a lot of people have lost respect for us the last few years. >> can i ask you about that because i do think there's a lot of great minds that were concerned at president obama and our place in the world. so let's talk about our place in the world. and i really appreciate not getting like the pat answer, but that poll numbers don't mean anything. the president's approval ratings are horrendous and they're plummeting on every level in every respect. there's no good way to look at

these numbers and there's several different angles of these numbers that all show he's going down every day. does that impact our place in the world? i just did an interview with a german newspaper and the questions were staggering. it gave me a glimpse into the lack of respect that we have internationally. are you worried about it? >> it's not helpful. but let me give you one positive number. i call it the trump bump. the stock market. one thing you didn't mention talking about the economy is reducing regulations, bringing more certainty to the regulatory environment here. i think president obama with the one and two out rule, the fact that he made the commitment to reduce regulations by 75%, which i would call a stretch goal, but i think the business community is taking a look at this administration at least for the next four years, there will be a pause to bring some certainty to the economy. i come from a manufacturing back kbround ground. it's really difficult to grow your business when you're not aware of any regulations coming.

>> it's brian sullivan from cnbc. we have six congressional working days left to fund federal agencies. are we going to have a government shutdown? you guys are running out of time. >> from my standpoint absolutely not. we should not play shutdown politics. i am concerned about democrats not wanting to help whatsoever. they may think that's cynically in their political advantage. let's not play with the american economy. i'm not going to be engaged in it. >> senator ron johnson, thank you very, very much for being on the show. as we tick toward the nuclear option in the battle to confirm neil gorsuch to the supreme court, we'll be live from capitol hill this friday morning. we have a big show, including senator john mccain, who does not mince words. joe, final thoughts? >> i just -- we've got a president whose inbox is greater than barack obama's was on foreign policy, according to david sanger. when donald trump came in, it's

a dangerous situation and we have a president who still doesn't have a functioning white house and approval ratings that are dropping towards the 20s. >> okay. that does it for us this morning on that note. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning. i am live from washington, d.c., overlooking the white house. we've got a lot of breaking news overnight. first, big test. the syrian government accused of using chemical weapons on its own people as north korea launches another missile test. the white house talking tough on both, but what really happens next? and supreme talk-a-thon. a lone democrat holds the senate floor for 15 hours trying to slow debate over judge gorsuch while the vice president visits republicans on the hill for late-night dieeal making on heah care. plus speaking out. ivanka trump's first interview since taking an official role. guess what, people are hitting her back and she'sin